S5. Ep 1 - Filecoin's Retroactive Funding Round 1: Lessons and Insights

Transcript

welcome to the green pill. network podcast you are listening to season five this summer of retro rounds which is hosted by SEL and La now Mau this season we'll explore retroactive funding in web 3 and each episode features a different ecosystem unpacking their experience in implementing the retr funding mechanism we'll explore how they're tailoring retroactive funding to their unique ecosystem along with the challenges they've faced in ways of overcoming that this season is guest Ho co-hosted by SEL and laau and the next voices you'll hear on this episode are from them [Music] enjoy hi everyone welcome and super excited for this episode this is one of the First

episodes of the Season summer of retro rounds I have La namu who is my co-host for today so la what are you excited about in this episode like what should you know people expect and what is your excitement about one of the things that I'm most excited about in retr grounds in general is this the way in which we're able to incentivize different behaviors from people in the ecosystems based on what we are sharing for what kind of contributions we're looking for and specifically for this episode one of the things that is really exciting for me is the team meeting the field rer pgf round is a really seasoned team that has

done a lot of research on incentives both Tom and Kieran are part of a crypto Eon team and they've looked at several different distribution mechanisms several different voting mechanisms and they bring all of this knowledge When approaching the design for the round and additionally because they have this experience of mixing research and implementation the way in which they've let the execution of this round was really exciting like their main purpose as they will be sharing with us in the podcast is around how do we innovate and how do we just launch it so that we're

able to have these feedback loops on what we're well and what didn't fast so that we're able to create and new improvements for this mechanism and today we have Tom and kidan from fcoin ecosystem who recently included the first retro round of filecoin so welcome everyone I would love for Tom and Kiran to introduce themselves so my name is Tom uh I work closely with the fcoin ecosystem I'm also part of crypto econ lab and we're a collective of researchers software developers and go to market Specialists that work together

with a bunch of different protocols helping them design their incentives most recently the thing we've been working on and we' been most um is launching file points retr pgf program Amazing gen I work with Tom at crypto econ lab and I've been involved in the filecoin ecosystem for about two years now similar to Tom my background is in uh data science and machine learning and we have been using these skill sets to do incentive design modeling and Analysis for a variety of crypto projects and this is a very exciting and interesting take on using and applying those Concepts to fund new projects and determine optimal allocation so this has been a exciting

project for us to work on and happy to be involved thank you yeah and I think for us this is actually one of the really exciting things and one of the things that we definitely want to dive into throughout the podcast like we know that the filecoin ecosystem uh through the crypto Eon team and through some of the other experiments that they funded has a lot of experience into looking at how to allocate resources but for everyone out there that might not be super familiar with the filecoin ecosystem could either of you please share a short TDR what is a f coin ecosystem what should people be looking at when thinking of it uh yeah sure uh I can give a couple of sentences and then maybe cing a bit more detail but in short filecoin is a network of computers

and disks that come together and are collectively dedicated to to the goal of storing Humanities information and doing this in a decentralized efficient robust way so in in order to make this happen the network has to dedicate a lot of Hardware like literally hard diss to store information but more than that it has to bring together many different things that are more kind of ecosystem level whether that uh education so that people can understand what the mission is and how it works uh it has to bring together research as uh for example developing the ZK snark networks and cryptography to to make the storage the

work that the falor network does to make this provable the research developing cryptoeconomic incentives uh so so these are the things that make up the file coin Network and these are also public goods the these are the things that we're trying to incentivize to with the recent Phil retr PDF program would you say anything else about you actually talked to a lot more detail than than I would have gotten into so when I remember when I was coming into the filecoin ecosystem kind of tagline I think that helped me understand it was it's a decentralized version of web of Google Drive so you know you can use Google Drive to store your data but the one of the problems that filecoin is trying to solve in addition to storing

you know important data that's useful for Humanity is to do it in a decentralized fashion so that all of the data doesn't end up concentrated and an entity such as Google there there's many solutions out there so that's at a very high level what filecoin is about like Tom mentioned taking that you know Visionary concept and breaking it down into something that is actually implementable requires a lot the coordination of a lot of different projects and resources and that's what's kind of exciting about retr pgf is to automatically recognize which projects are making contributions and get them the fun they need to continue doing that to advance this Vision yeah and and just

to say a little bit the vision and why it kind of excites me in at one level really information is Humanity's most important commodity and where this is stored and who owns it and controls it uh like this is just super important at the moment the market is primarily dominated by a few large centralized players and it's extremely profitable for those but there's another way to do things cheaper and it's more decentralized so if you can do that do it exactly thank you so much I I always feel so inspired you know to know like what sort of motivated you uh and it's so good to hear from people themselves and the way they talk about the

ecosystem I'm also curious like expand a little bit on crypto Eon team like because you shared you part of that so like what is that for the audience to know you know what that is and you know yeah what happens there yeah for sure so we are like I mean as I kind of said earlier we're Collective of primarily research scientists so most people in the team come from academic or research background and we came together uh to work on cryptoeconomic incentives uh initially like 100% focused on platform but now we work with many protocols so it's an exciting business to be in would you say anything else about the team K yeah yeah we have a diverse back ground

of technical skills so we have a couple people that have pure math background my background is in electrical engineering and we have some Physics background so what's nice about cryptoeconomics is I think it brings together all of these different Skillets to affect change like the the whole point of incentives design is so that you can coordinate resources in the real world so it it's been a very cool way to combine a bunch of different skill sets to you know do incentive design and and see that to fruition yeah and it is super cool doing the Retro pgf stuff I mean this is a cryptoeconomic mechanism this is stuff we work on but it's kind of a bit different to most of

the other cryptoeconomic mechanisms we work on bit more human focused rather than cryptography perhaps and it's kind of more operational and more working with people rather than just like simulating how something works and giving some recommendations but it's still it's like a super Co economic mechanism to to implement yeah and I think this is like for me this is definitely one of the things that I find the most interesting about funding mechanisms thinking of what are the incentives that we're creating and then what impact does it have on the behavior of people I think particularly for rgf that is one of the things that we're looking to move the needle on is what are people building especially as they are building with the expectation of being able to receive one of these

rewards and I'd love to hear So based on all of this previous work that crypto Eon team has done around different incentives and cryptoeconomic incentives different ways in which to allocate funding what were some of the experiences that you brought into your round design and that you brought with you when you were setting up this Reacher funding round and when you decided hey let's try out this as the next mechanism that we're piloting within the file coin system uh I mean I probably let Kieran answer this one first because he's really the guy who's been doing all of the simulation which is the kind of normal stuff we do for

other protocols but also bringing this kind of expertise and bringing it into fil retro pgf so that we could try to at least chune some of the parameters ahead of time to make it successful Karen can speak to that yeah yeah so just to build on the previous question a little bit you know in in engineering you're always uh trying to you have a system that you're trying to stabilize and control and so one of the first diagrams that we made for retro pgf as a control Loop where you have some inputs you have a desired output which is not a black box that is an electronic system in this case but it's a people's behavior to uh contribute public goods to the ecosystem

I just wanted to mention that to say like the way we kind of approach problems at crypto Eon lab is to kind of boil them down into these well studied and well researched mechanisms that are used in other areas of engineering and Science and then apply them so we kind of viewed retrop pgf as a control Loop where if we provided a certain input what will the outputs do and then how can we modify that so that's at a very high level at one of the to touch on a little bit of the simulations that we've done when we were implementing retrop pgf we had certain parameters to choose that would affect how in this specific case how the badge holder votes get

translated to the amount of funding that a project receives and there's a bunch of parameters that we could choose from like how do we aggregate the scores what thresholds do we use to determine whether a project should get funding or not get funding there were established practices from other projects that we drew from but we also wanted to to simulate this for ourselves because the parameters of Phil retrop pgf were different different than the parameters that were used for optimism for example we built up simulations we did some analysis assuming some behaviors to then say okay this is the funding these are the parameters that will give us a desired distribution of funding that's quite getting into the weeds of everything but just to zoom out to your

original question of how do we apply our backgrounds to determine how to design a retr pgf round that's those are maybe two examples we can dive into these a little bit more if you'd like or yeah I mean just like I think that's a good point Kier made at kind of broader scale the way we see the Retro pgf program and what's like attracted us to work on this and motivated us to implement it for file calling is that we see it as like a course setting mechanism for the network it's a core setting mechanism to steer create change and set the direction of some large body of software development Engineers researchers that's just like a

super cool thing to do um so that's very much how we see it we see it as this kind of like three stage feedback loop where we're sensing some input and we're sensing some input and the way that we do that is by hey everybody we're doing this round submit some applications and we get all of these applications and then we do some computation on that and the computation is done by the kind of decision makers who the badge holders we try to on the on the basis of the batch holders output saying hey this is really good this one is also good and so forth then the funders come in in the third stage and they say okay great this is how the capital's going to be allocated um and then that creates some output creates some output in terms of the

state of the network it makes things happen and then you keep repeating this process you keep rep repeating it and things keep getting better that's the point so I don't know if that answer your question or we're just like rambling on about how much we like retr pgf and the idea but there we go no but I think it was really good like it's it's been super interesting to hear like given that the ecosystem already has an experience like there's some other ecosystems that have Zer experience with running like really thinking through the incentives that are being generated through like by the different mechanisms you're using like I think like this is one of the things that I'm really interested and fascinated by how fcoin has been approaching yeah yeah I love that and that is what I think makes this round quite unique and original if I can

say right like in it in its own way uh I know you mentioned like funders right so unlike cell or optimism you know filecoin had this unique challenge or opportunity right have different funders so what was the process like of identifying and then eventually like convincing them right if other ecosystems are also looking to take this approach like it was kind of easy um in the sense that we just like spoke to a bunch of people who we knew and said hey optimism have done this it's really cool we want to do it for filecoin uh are you interested in being involved and they're like yeah it was pretty smooth for us in the first run for sure so but it's great um and I know that's like a slightly

different thing from what happens in most some of the other retro runs that are happening which tend to be one funder I mean it's better I think because you can get more donations so you can have more say in kind of directing impact and that's cool it's probably a little bit technically more difficult um in the sense that you just have to coordinate between the different funders to make sure everybody's like totally on the same page I mean what would you say Karen yeah I I was just thinking I think one other Factor we didn't do a poll to to determine how how this shook out but the one of the fundamental premises of retr pgf is that it's easier to assess impact uh looking backwards than forwards right and

everyone wants to be efficient in their Capital allocation mechanism because no one wants to waste money so I think that was a point that probably helped to convince other people to join uh the Retro pgf and help fund it is to say this is a new way to allocate Capital that can use your resources to have more efficient better outcomes the ones that you want and so I think the fundamental premise of retro pgf probably played a big role as well I think in general we're trying to fund these public goods in the ecosystem and the idea is that by funding them its welfare inre increasing for the the state of the system as a whole so by funding these things it's like net positive for absolutely

everyone and giving people a chance to be involved in that and have their say so we have four funders in this run so we're very grateful for donations from protocol Labs F Foundation web3 M rmo and Titan Network um because they give the donations while they get a bit more say in terms of like what direction does the program go in how is it shipped they get the way we decided to do it was we said okay what we're going to do is we'll give you batch holder seats or the ability to allocate bhold receipts in proportion to the amount that you fund so if you fund 25% then you get 25% of bhold receipts so you have more say over how the funds are allocated and the

direction of the network and I think this is a really good point as well sort of tying back with the goal that filecoin ecosystem has of decentralizing storage it's also decentralizing decision- making process of what is needed within the ecosystem and how the different funders are seeing it from the different trenches is this something that you also found for example as you allocated the different Bolder seips among the funders did you see this increase in richness from the evaluation based on the perspective that obviously definitely yes um I mean if if we look at the results of the bad holder voting one thing that's uh jump jumps out it's heterogeneous the the way that the

different badge holders voted are so they all have different information and they're all bringing something new I mean I could say oh yeah I think I know what's best for the ecosystem and try to allocate Capital based on that or Kieran could do it but uh I mean the point is it just wouldn't be as good as bringing together all of these different viewers so it's kind of like the other stuff we talked about in terms of like effectively aggregating information with futari retro pgf program is is just trying to do that also it's the same basic idea one of the things that we've seen across the different easy pgf and just reer rounds is several of the teams are using what optim and building upon the foundations that optimism has developed for how do you run uh reach

around what are some of the assets that you might need to Steward badge holders to Steward applicant projects how do you see filecoin contributing to this knowledge base and the way and sort of like how do you see your role as well in upping the game of how we conduct Ral rounds in the web 3 ecosystem I'm happy to jump in with some details and I think we can kind of try to extrapolate some generalizations out of that I mean all of the things that we're doing are open sourced in some way or another so we did take for Phil retrop pgf 1 we took a lot of inspiration from optimism

and the way we did that was we looked at all of their open source published information and we didn't talk to anyone from optimism but we definitely leveraged gitcoin expertise and optimism's documentation to kind of pull together the framework for for Phil retrop gf1 so one level of contribution is that we've we've made all of our stuff open as well and so people can now reference that to in addition to optimism to understand maybe what the differences are and pick and choose how they want to design their own retro pgf so that's that's one aspect of it another aspect of it is in the spirit of open sourcing right now we're also open sourcing specific software that we're

developing to help create these simulations to determine parameters that of how we want to run around so for example uh you were talking about upping the game so we I think we have several ideas on let me back up and say I think the Phil retr pgf program is very interested to experiment rapidly and try different things so that's like a philosophical perspective I think we're very interested in doing that and two ways that we're exploring how to do that are the specific voting mechanism we're looking at different voting methods that we can Implement uh for example a pairwise voting mechanism and our contribution there is we've built a simulator that can characterize how a pairwise voting mechanism Works compare

that to the way optimism and Phil retr pgf ran the first round and we're open sourcing that and we're open sourcing our analysis on that so that people can take that information and determine whether this is the right thing for them so I think in those ways we're looking to be very experimental try new things to achieve that ultimate goal of efficient Capital allocation and redirecting incentives in the way that is positive is a net positive for the ecosystem I don't know if you have things to add there to but I just add yeah like just double down on that we want to take an open source methodology so it's like there's going to be things to improve and there's going to be bugs in terms of how the round operates and

things to fix and it's like well for sure like if if you see a bug or you see something that could be better it's like raise your hand and say hey this needs fixed or like jump in and like help us fix it um everybody should be empowered to like contribute to to that yeah yes I definitely see that as you mentioned all of these different tools that are being created and then are being open sourced for others to use they're definitely becoming or are already a a really large public good that serves to improve the allocation mechanism and allocation mechanisms in general like one of the things that I'm big fan of is the analysis that the file that the fuel rer pgf team has done on both the results of

the round uh how much funding each one of the categories SC like I've heard from other round operators this is one of the main things that they want to do like analyze the resource because they want to be able to correctly say how efficient was do doing or using richer pgf instead of going through direct grants or some other kind of mechanism and having this Playbook that others can leverage when they're thinking of how do we look back at our grants program at our rual pgf round how do we move forward is definitely one of the things that ecosystem wide is going to be very useful yeah and and for us like the Playbook was critical because we basically took optimism as a template

and that's our reference uh we we basically tried to implement that um with with as few changes as possible but and then as I think as we go forward we'll we make like small changes in the experiment and you know we'll publish what works and what doesn't work and then hopefully that's a good reference for for other people also to use and I just want to add that you know one of the things like you said it's so important to raise your hand and just like share what is working what is not working like you know with filecoin we had a great experience and see this as like a long-term thing where you know we did it for the first time EAS rgf you know um was born and filecoin was definitely one of the first ecosystems you know who uh which committed to it

and even in the process you know one of the things I've observed that you guys have been really flexible ible and also like so proactive in giving feedback right so there were like a ton of improvements of course you know as any new product it needed so I think that was incredible and that has helped the team so much right so thank you for that right yeah yeah and just to say I mean the easy retr pgf software has been fantastic for us like trying to do this from scratch a thousand times harder uh because there's just so many little things you got to Implement with make get the website for people to come along and see voting attestations to Chin so having it kind of set up and ready to

run through easy retrop as M our life as like people trying to to get their wrong going like a hundred times easier for sure and for example as heel mentioned this feedback and being aware of what are some of the barriers or improvements that are needed is definitely one of the things that keeps is pushing both the product the mechanism for the for the voting process for the distribution process improving as you are aware there's other ecosystems besides optimism running these different re rounds is there anything that would be really valuable for the filecoin ecosystem to receive as well from the

other operators and their learnings like are there some golden nuggets that you'd be like anyone that is running a r around as well please share X Y or is there a particular Forum that you would like to see take place where the different reround operators are sharing their learning so that we can all learn from one another yeah so so I think any information is good information here like because these well at least in my view these are still kind of this is a nent experiment that's kind of spreading across the crypto community so there have been three optimism rounds one Phill round probably a few other projects that I'm unaware of but we have all explored different areas of this

kind of optimiz like we have learned different aspects of this surface of information so sharing it is good in general like negative information is also really good we don't really publicize that too much usually but that's just as valuable maybe if not more than positive information here know what to avoid as well as what to do uh I mean I think a lot of the the stuff that we learn is trans Parable and kind of generic and will be useful to other ecosystems like um we're actually working on some stuff with optimism now to try to to simulate and understand collusion resistance in voting optimism is are are motivated to work on that for obvious reasons because it helps them

with retr pgf but I mean doing that work also helps us and it also helps any other team who's who's running retr pgf RS yes definitely like I see I think there are several problems that teams are figuring out and running into as the as the model gets replicated and it's adopted in different ecosystems like pollution is definitely one of the things that I've heard from other of of the ecosystems running rounds that is one of their main concerns about on how to avoid especially I think for when seing who the The Trusted initial group is that is going to participate as bch holders how do you avoid Coalition with people that know each other really well

because they've been probably interacting with the like with each other through their projects which are probably participating in the round um so this is definitely one of the areas of work that are really valuable for for reach round operators in general to consider and I think to one of the points that Kieran mentioned as well in terms of how do we share the bad parts as well from our learnings I think we're all very happy to say this was really successful and this part went really well this I would also definitely recommend using this type of communication channels but it is part of learning from the mistakes that will enable us to improve the mechanism get

better allocation of all of these resources is there any advice that you would have for example for a team like easy reach pgf or from for some of the other operators on how to share also the negative learnings that they are producing from from these different experiments that we're running uh I I don't know if there's any special way that you need to share them but people should get special kudos for sharing them in like General scientific research there was kind of like a movement maybe like five years ago or three years ago and this was to kind of say hey we need to publish more like negative results fre in studies and say oh yeah we did this experiment and it didn't work um because you know you you you just have

this bias where you want to hear the positive stories obviously that's just not a good thing so I don't know we need to accept that this is what we need to do also is publish the the negative stories too what would you say Karen yeah you know I I would just I think what I would add there is we we've taken a step towards that so we did a retro on our retro pgf round and we wrote wrote a document about this so something that comes top of mind right now is it was difficult to coordinate and get the message out about retrop pgf because we were using multiple Communications channels seems obvious in hindsight but at the time we were our motivation was to try to reach

as many people but it ended up being confusing for people to watch different channels for information updates so that's a very specific example but our initial step towards this was to do a retro on retro pgf round and improve the next round because of that and this is something optimism has also done it's not a it's not like we invented this so I think you know having a collection of documents of retro on retro is a good starting point we can take it from there and I think along those lines is there some like we talked about exploring prayer wise for as a new voting mechanism to see different behaviors as well from voters and this is one of the

many things that are helping evolve re rounds as a mechanism and particularly in the public good space are there any other particular Trends or innovations that you're excited about to bring into the field and to test out I think this is also one of the really nice things that the FCO ecosystem has done really well in terms of testing things out just putting it out there and learn from this initial result so that you're able to iterate on it so what are some of the other innovations that you are excited to see come for that in this P I mean this is like super tentative and nent but a kind of philosophical level just as we talked about before La is finding

effective ways of aggregating information I with futarchy whether that's actually for allocating the capital uh two teams in the ecosystem contributing to the governance of of the round itself and how the rules should update that's one thing I'm kind of excited about but I mean I don't know exactly how it's going to work out but yeah I think that would be like super cool if we can get to something like that generally things um other things I'm kind of excited about I think just bringing together the different components so like in the fcoin Retro pgf RS we work very closely with gcoin and the easy retr pgf software and that's been amazing and facilitated the applications and voting and the attestations but also if we can combine

this with other things like hypers Sears to track impact and also more more Technologies for unchain payments for example like drip and just bringing together all of these things and once we kind of got all of these things like singing together and working really well if we can do a really efficient job running these programs ideally we should get to a place where we're not just doing this within crypto ecosystems we should be using these crypto Primitives and systems but doing this much more generally to run grants programs and if if we can do something like that then then we've really made it and we've created something that's like super useful and that's that's the that's where we want to get to it I can add one thing to this which is uh one of the things optimism is doing in round four

is they're going very heavy on the quantitative metrics and impact measurement and I think that is a really good direction uh well maybe I'm biased because of my background is like data science machine learning so I I prefer that over subjective things now I think there's place where subjective in this retr PF that's that's why we get badge holders because this is a very hard problem but I think ways to figure out quantitative metrics that can be a guiding or a starting point for bolders it's obvious in certain categories like software development you can say okay how many stars does my GitHub repository have how many people have forked it Etc but it's very difficult to measure pack

on let's say I wrote a research article I don't know who read it and I don't know how many Minds I've changed which is really the measure of impact for a research article for example you know that's an interesting direction to explore like and I think we're starting from a place that we know how to measure things which is GitHub Stars Forks Etc and we can we can take that as a starting point and move towards a direction where we start to experiment with measuring things that we don't really have a good idea of how to measure and if we keep working on that you know we'll get there and that can make this process even more efficient going forward so that's that's an interesting Direction I I I like it um but I don't have any good answers

yet I think that would great um you know now we've talked about the the new experiments we want to do uh and also we are towards the end of the episode which is quite good because you know it didn't feel like a long conversation feels like we just started and um I'm now thinking that probably we need a series with filecoin because there are so many things that you know we are planning and it would be good to actually unpack you know every experiment that we do so I think audience can expect something like that yes U so you know before we wrap up to we towards the end of it filecoin retro round two is coming up right so would you like to you know share any

insights or maybe I I should say like drop some Alpha for the audience um about this upcoming round and in general the Grands program within the pon ecosystem the only Alpha I would give you is that the rounds are happening regularly the second round is almost happening already the first one feels like it's barely finished uh but yeah I mean we're planning to kick off full retro pgf in the autumn in the fall of this year if you aren't building already get building and get ready to submit your applications pretty soon and is there any thing in particular like I know one of the things that you mentioned is how richer pgf is also serving within the Falin ecosystem as

this Fring point for people to be aware of hey this are the type of contributions that are really valuable in our ecosystem that we definitely want to see more of is there a way or is there a place in which Builders can get ideas of what is needed within the Falco ecosystem so that they can participate in the next round yeah for sure uh so I mean I think the intention is is going to stick quite closely to the first round in that we want to keep it relatively broad brush because there's just so many things that have to happen across education research tooling utilities more so we want to keep it open to to everybody who can contribute to the ecosystem in any way but especially apps or front ends that are making filecoin easier to use because

like filecoin is this in a sense this like as the back end but if we can make more front ends to make it super easy to use then that's going to be really valuable so just like making it easier for clients to on board data and hearing about those stories and another thing I've I've heard a lot of people talking about also is developing the DI side more um and onchan payments and getting this stuff to work on FM uh so I think those are some of the things I think a lot of the people are most excited to see applications for in in round two amazing well this is great now our listeners also know where to look at and what to get their hands on and start building and contributing to the fal ecosystem

thanks a lot both of you this was really really good you Tom yeah yeah thank you so much it was a pleasure to talk to you guys again thanks you just heard Tom and Karan talk about their experience with the first round their backgrounds and you know it's amazing to see how this round just happened so suddenly and it left us with like a ton of learnings you know and there's so much more to come and the fact that they're so invested in it yeah it's definitely something that I'm sure after this episode everyone would look out for so yeah what was your what was your favorite part L I think one of the pieces of information that was new to me and was really exciting to hear is how the the team is already collaborating as well with optimism in

terms of looking at what other type of mechanisms could be used linked to retroactive funding and how they are collaborating with some of the other participants that are hosting their own R rounds I think also um what they shared in terms of tools that they've developed and that they are now open source for anyone else that's hosting their reer round to Leverage is really amazing I think as optimism has done before it should be a really important precedent for everyone that is hosting a rra round to share the resources that they are using so that more and more ecosystems are able to to use it and then we're able to continue to push

forward how the rual rounds are becoming more efficient for the web3 system overall absolutely super excited for this and um hope everyone enjoyed this please leave your feedback you know share with us what is more you want to see we're actually thinking of a dedicated series with filecoin but yes probably we will you know have that feeling with every ecosystem because you know there is so much that can be unlocked and don't forget the next justce with most of the other vitual rounds for ecosystem the beauty of this mechanism is you don't run it only once the next reer round for file coin is coming in Autumn as was mentioned in the episode if you want to hear more off on

what's going to be rewarded during that round check out the end and take note of what you could be building for the file Co you do not want to miss this so yes check that out and see you in the file coin round probably [Music] he