H2 2023 Predictions: A Can't Lose Parlay | Blockworks Research

Transcript

it's gonna be a base filled year the flipping still on the table lsd5 is going to be the chief narrative I strongly agree with that take Westie and cctp is going to eat the bridges all right everyone welcome back to another episode of zero X research the show is made possible thanks to our wonderful sponsor the atom accelerator it has never been a more attractive time to build in the cosmos uh if you're a contributor looking for Grants the atom accelerator offers grants between 10 000 and 1 million dollars so be sure to check out the link in the show notes uh today is May 31st and we have a really fun episode today lined up uh with the blockworks research team we're going to start out with a little segment of Hot Seat cool throne and then transition

over to some predictions for the back half of 2023. uh Westy why don't I kick it over to you for your hot seat or cool throne yeah sounds good um so yeah on the day of this recording May 31st um I have actually op in the hot seat because today it's uh its largest unlock equivalent to that of roughly 114 of the current circulating Supply it's obviously a giant unlock and this caused the token to dump roughly 17 over the past few days in anticipation of this unlock and hasn't really seen a bounce uh since it's happened um and this is also the start of sort of the vesting unlock in general where I think every month from now on until sometime in 2027 we're going to see half

a percent of the total Supply being unlocked every month and so yeah a big overhang for op um pretty bad trading uh week for op and I just wonder we have like a lot of upcoming events for optimism so the Bedrock upgrade this week we have World coins launch I think in June and then basis test net pretty soon and so I wonder like is this enough to cause a bounce after the online Locker world the overhangs over time also be a little too much as liquidity is pretty dry at the moment yeah I agree that the unlock is pretty big I think I saw a thread out there that said historically some foundations or teams have tracked the time these unlocks with protocol upgrades so for example the unlock is

coming out today and Bedrock is supposed to come out I think on June 7th or maybe June 11th I'm not too sure but next within the next two weeks I think another thing that think about when it comes to token unlockings is that in web 2 like in that world the same thing happens you know like you have certain Founders they get vested Equity they have like a one-year Cliff the equity invests over four years and the only thing is that they can't sell it until an IPO and if you kind of think about it I'm not really sure that makes sense you know for example if you say it at a startup for three years you've done

an amazing job of bringing it to Market but just because of how like traditional public markets work you have to wait 10 more years for an IPO to happen and only then can you sort of like receive your compensation or your upside in helping build out their product I'm not sure that's the best model and the best incentives but also you have the converse argument right encrypt all these large unlocks it means everyone can dump early but I feel like that's mostly a function of the market not being efficient and pricing everything too highly right the valuations are too high and that's enabling these Founders to basically unlock and dump the Silicon high valuations and catch up without

their product having reached any semblance or product Market fit if the valuations were much lower sure people would want because like the token price doesn't go off but also I think that would make a lot more sense in terms of like Equity slash token being liquid upon investing in a crypto context yeah I agree with that Ren I'm also just like like you said Westy all the Catalyst coming up like we have Base main net coming pretty soon Bedrock we've got uh World coin like it's it's kind of to me gonna shape out like maybe more so how the cosmos ecosystem did in that like the Hub isn't necessarily the

central value cruel token uh with Adam and maybe op becomes the same I think a lot of that will probably hinge on whether uh every op stack chain actually returns some of the revenue from the sequencer back to the op public goods funding because that is a pretty enticing flywheel right there if it becomes a standard kind of how airdropping tokens to Adam stakers did over in the cosmos um but yeah definitely tough to uh see how it plays out considering every op stack chain is going to have their own centralized sequencer yeah yeah good thing to bring out and point up Westie I like that one Ren what do you got this week this week I have tiger Global in the hot seat so in November 2021 they invested

555 million into moonpay at a 3.4 billion dollar valuation for those that are unfamiliar Moon pay sort of an on-ramp service provider so to say um tiger Global launched this 12.7 billion dollar budget fund at October 2021 which is kind of peak food market and they deployed I think I would guess from that fund a lot of it into Moon pay by the end of 2022 that fund had a paper loss of 20 and it basically got screwed out that Moon pay sort of siphoned 150 million out of the company for their own use the

CEO bought a 38 million dollar mansion in Miami and Kobe also came out last night saying that at one point he got an intro to the head of tiger to help them with their Investments because he was like what are you guys doing like your Investments are garbage um and basically the head of tiger said hi ignored all of Kobe's messages and then left the telegram chat and basically ignored Kobe for good so and I think the moral of the story is here is that over the past one or two years we've seen a lot of companies deploy a huge amount of large checks into um like quote-unquote established or larger crypto companies FTX being the most notable one

um Celsius with that Canadian pension fund investing 150 million dollars into that and a lot of these have been at absurdly high valuations right like 3.4 billion dollars for a series a is pretty unheard of in the web 2 world but perhaps one could also make an argument based on some funky math say hey if 10 years down the road 1 billion people in the world use crypto and X percent of them need to on-ramp off-ramp and they don't want to do it through a centralized change account Moon people facilitate that and when people take X percent of that online thing then perhaps you can arrive at like a magical 3.4 billion dollars valuation but overall that still seems high to me I think in

other news that came out um over the past week was that the people that invested in FTX out of the Singapore pension fund they got their pay cut by a pretty hefty amount so I guess there is some accountability out there rather than just like randomly chucking checks at these companies right um but then there's also been arguments right as a VC sometimes you do need these VCS that are a bit further out on the risk curve to fund these sort of like industry-changing Paradigm shifting companies and if everyone that works at a VC rather plays it uh prefers to play it safe by not funding these type of companies is very possible that a lot of like sort of the billion hundred billion

dollar companies they just don't exists because everyone in DC's become basically first and they don't want to investigate the next Celsius the next FTX and The Next Movement paid so yeah but I have time to do about the hottie because they ignored Kobe yeah definitely a bad look for the industry as a whole honestly like seeing these larger players get wrapped up in these types of scenarios is is pretty brutal um I mean the tldr is like do your dude due diligence surely affirm of that quality would have been able to dig in a little bit do some DD like they do for every other investment they've made um we kind of arrive at a conclusion

that maybe this is a bad call um but clearly that didn't happen so you'd have to wonder is like were they just trying to be like okay we gotta allocate to crypto instead of doing the you know the protocols themselves let's kind of Hit the on off ramp space maybe that's a little safer like we just got to be in this space because our LPS are demanding it but it's just not really where we want to be that's kind of what I think would have happened but again I wasn't sitting in that room so I truly have no idea yeah I'm just still salty at moonpay because I tried to buy Pepe like a 20 million dollar market cap on the unit swap mobile app and I got my transaction denied so they uh single-handedly screwed me out of ten ten fifteen thousand dollars so yeah I I think

that's a good hot seat there and but I can take it over for my uh cool Throne I've actually got the noble and Celestia partnership so Noble is the general asset issue and Shane in the cosmos ecosystem and then Celestia is a DA layer that's building using uh the cosmo stack and they are enabling the minting of native usdc by default for any modular chain that leverages Celestia as a DA layer um this is really important for a lot of different reasons basically in order to have a vibrant defy ecosystem stable coins are incredibly important and that's been a main uh pain point for the cosmos actually but now that they have usdc I feel like there's going to be a lot less liquidity fragmentation it'll be easier to bootstrap a solid defy ecosystem there's even talk about using

usdc as gas tokens for these uh modular Sovereign Roll-Ups so super exciting development I'm not really sure how exactly it plays out but I'm curious to get your guys's thoughts on um what do you think the main use case for for Sovereign Roll-Ups will be thank you yeah I definitely think this is a huge development I mean you look at Cosmos I feel like the reason that their D5 hasn't taken off despite them being around for a while is because there wasn't that like native stable coin and like you said there was that fragment of liquidity and now that you know that Celestia off the bat is going to have native usdc there like with the ability to use it I think that's going to supercharge a lot of the growth in

Celestia to start where may maybe otherwise they they sort of had like a slow start over time I think it's really going to jump start things and that yeah I do think that's a good question what the main use for solving ropes will be um I think like using Celestia as a d8 layer which is going to be a lot cheaper than even ethereum under dank sharding like I think there's going to be a lot of really really cool use cases specifically like CK Sovereign Roll-Ups on Celestia where they can post proofs like continuously to the DA layer um and have like really quick block times uh synchronous composability across different Roll-Ups with something like uh that's the Sovereign SDK that's being built I think there's going to be a lot of really really cool use cases

High throughput use cases and I think to be honest like that's where the the role of vision that we all think of where you have many different Roll-Ups that are all composable with one another I think that's what well there will happen is on Celestia through these solvent roll-ups well I think that's interesting is the fact that usdc will be have such a first mover Advantage as the native Fiat stablecoin you know presumably tether's thinking hey we gotta you know copycat following these footsteps but we haven't seen any of those actions being taken um so it it it's interesting to think about right because everybody in the over the last six 12 months has been like all right there's like three major

ecosystems the the high throughput chains like Solana ethereum and app chains through the cosmos ecosystem and so the fact that you know we already have usdc and tether on Solana but they and obviously it's very much so perforated on um ethereum itself as well as ethereum's l2s we haven't really seen that happen in the cosmos ecosystem and so I wonder like if we do get this Cambrian explosion of D5 applications and use cases you know now we have Mars to offer leverage neutrons coming and providing that general purpose area to come build defy applications and if we do start moving in this world it's like you know is this going to be a Miss for

tethers it's kind of where I'm thinking and uh it's definitely good for D5 to have you know that trustworthy Fiat stable coin uh that can provide that one-to-one pegged value but you know you almost kind of want that market diversity to kind of Shard some of the risk of relying on a single asset so I'm curious to see how that plays out from uh more of this stablecoin View yeah that's a good point sorry go ahead run now I was gonna say um it seems like tether is leaning very heavily into sort of all of his Bitcoin operations between the buying of Bitcoin using its uh interest income and also starting its mining operations in Uruguay I haven't seen anything infrastructure infrastructure related

like in terms of online infrastructure from Twitter at all whereas circus is just running circles around everyone with the launch of cctp and then now if you're CC being able uh being able to be natively minted on the Celestia chains and Cosmos chains I think one thing that I never really thought about was that like what do wrapped assets like even look like on a sovereign world of right assuming they are used like a DA layer like assuming usdc doesn't kind of uh natively mint right like the people have to bridge

from ethereum to the D layer and then that like bridges down to the soft and roll up like that gets like really messy and a lot of the use cases that I envisioned for Sovereign I think there's a lot of them that are other kind of like institutions or like Mass adoption sort of like for example deep in applications and most of those would want a stable coin right you don't want people to transact for your business or for your VPN protocol in like Eve or maybe even a native token like you still want that payment to be made in a stable code or at least like something US dollar denominated so I think uscc coming to all of these chains natively is a pretty big unlock and of course

there's a whole sort of discussion that's rocked over the weekend from John Charles like roloff's piece or like what is the role of um and I think that has given a lot of us sort of a bit of food for thought into the differences between a native asset and a wrapped asset on a roll up and what that really means where like she goes wrong or like in her medicine okay yeah yeah good point to point things to point out Ren um I guess I can give my hot seat cool Throne this week but honestly I think I'm gonna have to leave this one to the audience to decide if it's a hot seat or a cool Throne um I'm bringing maker down to the table

for their continued development and building um you know the end game has been largely in discussion and I think most people still don't really get what it is but we're starting to see the cards unfold uh and into what that direction looks like and the kind of initial steps of building out this plan um are centered around this uh borrowing rate increase for maker Dow itself so a couple big changes that are coming that uh I'm gonna walk through real quick here so uh through maker Dow's rwa exposure they're earning the like essentially the risk-free rate provided by the U.S treasury through the uh their exposure to T bills and they are now returning some of that yield to the die

stable coin itself as is the what they call the die savings rate so this proposal that is set to go live in a few days actually brings a 3.49 yield to die they are calling this like the DSR again the die savings rate and so this brings a very interesting change to the ecosystem because we haven't really seen the ability to earn on chain yield at scale before um from specifically from t-bills and so now with maker Dow supplying this there's a few major changes that also come along with this around increasing the um the cost of borrowing from on-chain collateral so examples of that are like boring against your e

through Oasis or boring against uh your wrap staked eth in spark protocol so that is a very interesting diversion they're making is saying hey we're going to provide yield native yield to the diet stable coin itself however we're going to charge you more on your uh like on-chain collateral borrowing so very very interesting because a lot of the makerdale team themselves is like this is going to completely change DFI the cost of borrowing is going to going to go up for specifically for dye but also for other stable coins and like let's walk through why they believe that to be the case so specifically for die you know on Ave the borrow rate is roughly three-ish percent let's call it

and if that is below the die savings rate then there's like this very obvious carry trade or Arbitrage that can be captured where I provide collateral to Ave I borrow die against that collateral and then I just take that die and plug it into the the die savings rate uh and then I earn the spread between what I'm paying for the the loan versus what uh maker Dow is paying me so like that Gap will get closed and I will become more expensive to borrow on Ave so this is like effectively pulling up the cost to borrow for all die stable coins across the entire D5 ecosystem now you could also say the same thing will happen to usdc right because there's kind of the ability the PSM creates that that Gap

where I can just borrow usdc from Ave use the PSM to flip it into die and then collect that savings rate again and then the increased demand to do so will kind of close that Gap as people come in and take advantage of that now one thing that I personally think that is getting over thought of in this is that is specifically a pier to pool borrowing model where lender suppliers deposit assets to earn yields that's generated from borrowers coming to the same protocol and taking out loans against that collateral and paying interest on those loans to do so that will increase the borrow rate for those protocols but we have two scalable models in D5 and that's the peer-to-pool

but the period of protocol similar to what maker Dow is doing the protocol itself is responsible for creating the rate that people can borrow against so an example of this is curves new stable coin that is the it's a it's a bit of a complicated formula we can walk through at another time but essentially there is like a rate a market rate that isn't determined by anybody else it's called rate zero is this this specific thing I'm referring to and that like determines where this curve sits and it doesn't matter what the cost to borrow die is in this in this model in my opinion like I don't see how that's going to try to like impact this rate but I think it will bring some interesting changes to D5 I I kind of

think some of the makered out team is is overstating the impact it'll have and then again this is crypto in a bear market so nothing is efficient in the first place but yeah I'm curious to get your guys take around how you think bringing the increasing the DSR to 3.49 percent as well as increasing the cost to borrow against each and each derivative collateral what kind of changes you expect to that to bring to defy yeah I think he brought up a great point in that it's going to increase the bar rate of die on these external uh sort of like pool the protocol or up here to pool models as you said but a maker themselves sets their own interest rates and so you can imagine in the future and

this is the take of effort Capital fellow analyst of ours and I agree with it fully is that as they continue to scaled up their rwas you can imagine that the die savings rate gets above the risk-free rate in traffic and as a result maker can say hey we're going to basically rug all the interest rates on our other loans on our eath back loan Etc and so die becomes extremely cheap to borrow within maker itself and die has a really really high savings rate for higher adoption within D5 so yeah I think this is a really strong move for maker and I think yeah like you said it's going to bring up the the rates within D5 uh Force other people to be more competitive and I think overall it's going to be good for adoption

Health maker and D5 as a whole yeah one thing to expand on that you just brought up which is pretty interesting is this kind of becomes like a hurdle rate or a non-chain risk-free rate it's like if I can just do nothing and get paid by staking my die or swapping it to S die is this like DSR accruing uh version of die and if I could do nothing and just earn that that becomes a bit more interesting to be like all right so let's say I own frax now I have to go like you know stake that through a curve pool put that into convex and like you know get like CRV and CVX and fxs yield turn that into like another you know stable coin because I kind of captured that yield that's like a lot of work as opposed to just staking die

um so this does definitely make a very interesting uh use case for like this this Baseline hurdle rate or Baseline uh risk-free rate across D5 which I do think is kind of what the the maker guys are referring to and they've mentioned the impact it's going to have across all the D5 ecosystem I think one thing that I think about when it comes to Rich freeway is that well crypto ever have its own risk-free rate you know like in traffic fate is the way that you get on the U.S treasury bill or like the current federal funds rate um but crypto I think for a decent amount of US represents like a paradigm shift right right maybe there's a world

in which we have two different types of History rates one is evening one is US Dollars denominated risky rates maybe there's a world where uh when Chad fight eventually comes on change in size there's a different risk uh there's a different rate curve on chain then off chain just due to external factors such as smart contract risk or maybe there's a lower risk-free rate on chain compared to option because I don't know maybe there's no counterparties on chain and people think that that's that's just then your kind of Hardy being the United States government you know I think that's a very interesting like discussion for people to have and I don't think it'll

be even too surprising if at least for now people in crypto think of risk-free rate as the eve staking yield for example and then apply that to the US Dollars they're like okay the East taking you this five percent now my US dollar risky rate is five percent even those even though if it's a volatile asset and U.S dollar is like one US dollars I think there's a lot of mental models that I just need to think about but at the end of the day risk-free rate is basically social since this is what the world and the largest Society things different you made it so it'll be interesting to see that discussion continue as crypto develops and I think the answer to that depends on whether trading institutions common size or not

on chain in the next five ten years yeah I agree with that run that's like a a really interesting like psychological question I think it's going to take a lot of time before people actually accept a crypto denominated asset as a a risk-free rate but I do think one day we will we will see that world but uh Dan you wanna tell us what's new with the atom accelerator absolutely as always we gotta give a shout out to our wonderful sponsors over at the atom accelerator um you know again the message we really want to bring to everyone today is if you're a developer the place to build is is quickly becoming the atom economic zone uh you know with again we actually

put a neutron in the in Noble in the the cool Throne this week because of everything they're doing uh the idea of building on this new bustling Hub of Defy is super powerful powerful and again with Native usdc coming uh to the cosmos it kind of unlocks the ability to build new and exciting products I really haven't had that uh stable form of value uh to be to be practical in the past and with a technology like IBC giving you the flexibility of interoperability with other chains across the ecosystem you kind of get this this mesh type network of app chains that can all communicate with each other and build exciting products and so again as Sam mentioned earlier the atom accelerator is giving grants from 10 000 to 1 million dollars

um and and really kind of doing that on a rolling monthly basis to incentivize people that are like hey you know we have this crazy idea we think it's going to be great for the ecosystem um but we kind of need some help Capital help building this thing out and so the atom accelerator is here to bring those things to fruition so if that is something that you're interested in doing be sure to check out the link in the show notes we've got a great way they have a great website to kind of help guide you through what the process of of getting involved looks like so with that be sure to check out the atom accelerator and so moving into the back half of the show I want to talk about some 2023 predictions that our team has for what we expect to see in defy as

well as all across the crypto ecosystem so at the start of the year we did an episode where we talked about some things or some ideas we had about uh about what's coming for the next year and we wrote a report on this that's live uh for free on the blockworks research website we'll link that in the show notes as well but we kind of got take a take a second to review some of these some of them have certainly Fallen apart but others look quite good and I think we want to hit on both notes um so Sam let me uh let me let me pick on you first here I'd love to hear about your thoughts about you know what you have in mind for the back half of the year and if you held this like idea or or thought at the beginning of the year

yeah so I think my 2023 prediction from the episode back in I think it was the end of December early January I think I actually said that a major OG D5 protocol would launch is an L3 somewhere in in some ecosystem so obviously that has not come to fruition yet still got quite a bit of time I don't really have his high conviction on that statement as before I feel like back then everyone was talking about all threes and right now it's more op stack and modular stuff so so we'll see if that Vision actually comes to fruition but for this uh prediction for the back half of 2023 I'm gonna go with the base alts outperforming the market so base is set to launch on mainnet sometime within the next couple months basically just waiting on a few things from the op

Foundation to get to get launched live one of which being Bedrock but I'm just anticipating a large swath of activity on base in the months following mainnet launch given just coinbases app their wallet large number of verified users you know we've talked about this uh Ad nauseam to be honest I also just think there's going to be a ton of Development coming directly from the coinbase team themselves building dapps that could potentially be monetized in some way for coinbase the company so I think there'll be quite a bit to do over there not super confident that they'll have a very vibrant defy ecosystem just given how you know regulatory purview under D5 like I feel like those two don't exactly cross too well so I'm expecting more things like maybe social applications

gaming payments things of that nature with coinbase pay I feel like payments has has high potential um but yeah I mean you know back in 2021 or so you know you saw Matic rip super hard BMB Soul like all these L1 tokens but for arbitrum it was GMX because obviously arbitrum did not have a token at that point so I just feel like there's gonna be speculation and it can't be on base token because there is going to be no such token so I do think alts over there will perform pretty well obviously the main risk here being execution um maybe a lack of interest from users because there is no token because I think everyone ultimately knew

eventually there's going to be an arbitrum token in for base it's going to be the opposite not sure exactly how that influences things and then also regulatory risk as a coinbase being the the sole sequencer operator I'm very curious to see if the SEC comes at them for from that angle but nonetheless I think uh it's a pretty solid bet going into the back half of the year foreign like you said there's a lot of interest on the developer side of things in terms of bass there's a lot of projects that I want to build there and that's because coinbase has all the users that they do have and so you can imagine it's a perfect storm in which you have a lot of great applications and a lot of users that are looking to dip their toes into

D5 especially institutional users that use coinbase so I'm guessing if their first Fourier wasn't into something like ethify or l2s that maybe it's it's based specifically because they feel more comfortable so yeah I think there's a good chance that you know bass does really well out the jump in terms of tvl and that as a result the alts on the back of that do do really well as well do you think it'll be a fully permissionless chain like can anybody just go build there and can anybody just go use there because I'm torn on I got first of all has anyone heard if like they've made an official statement that's like here's the answer to how you use Bass I know that the team came out and said that it is going to be fully

permissionless so I do think that anyone can build there if they want to and launch whatever dap the only thing is though I think coinbase is taking this approach because in the past they've tried going to the SEC you know talking about like how should we actually register some of these some of these token listings like how does this work so I think now they're doing the opposite approach I think they're like you know what we're just gonna do it and then deal with the repercussions afterwards so I could see a world where it gets a little crazy and then all of a sudden the SEC is coming after coinbase and coinbase is forced to maybe censor some transactions and only include kyc users or something among the sorts but I think off the rip it'll be as

permissionless as op itself or arbitrary or really any other chain all right well that's definitely great to hear um and it's like yeah it'll be interesting to see if like you know Meme coins would have been such a topic in the beginning half of this year largely just because of how bored everybody's been uh in the depths of a bear Market but it'll just be funny if like there's meme coins ripping on this you know centralized providers L2 that just sounds so funny to me like if you think of meme coins as this like uh you know true Casino It's like a pure form of a casino I think the 1000x guys you know even brought up the the fact there's like 75 billion dollars of

gambling spend annually on in uh it's not sorry sorry lottery ticket spending strictly in the U.S annually which is a crazy number and like if you think of meme coins as just like the same type of thing you know you're effectively buying a scratch off when you don't know if it's a rug or not um it'd just be funny to have that type of activity happening on coinbases L2 so it'll be interesting to see if they're trying to guide a certain class of Builder there like um you know I've seen Jesse tweeting about like hey if you need to go you know make some work on testnet basically test out an idea go for it I got you send me your ens I'll give you some youth to go build and so they've been like actively trying to bring in

that class of Builder uh that's like here right now and it's like that's definitely the Builder trying to build something super interesting and here for the long term as opposed to something short-term and scammy which is interesting because if you think about the legal repercussions as you mentioned Sam it's like is coinbase going to be viewed as responsible for any illicit activity going on on base like they probably shouldn't be but at the end of the day they're likely going to be the sole sequencer operator so how does that work I think for days one thing that I think about is obviously it's gonna be like operated by coinbase the single sequence here it's going to be for Mission this and on one hand you could say hey all of these Protocols are going to want to

fork and launch on base because it's like the like quote-unquote institutional chain it's gonna have 110 million koic users that can come from coinbase exchange but I wonder if this may be an alternative version of this where a protocol goes hey like coinbase is launching this you know they're a public company they're under SEC scrutiny maybe I don't want to launch on base because if something happens in the face I get set up in all this whole thing and like I don't know maybe basically comes a fully like permission regulatory chain and suddenly I've been operating on there without like a money transmitter license because I facilitate lending borrowing or something of that sort you know I think that's definitely an angle

to this and I think another thing that I think about is what are the types of new protocols that are going to launch on base for sure on day one there's going to be like 20 different breach of D5 protocols that are just going to Fork a lot of days but I'm super curious as to what are the new protocols that are launched on Facebook like is it just going to be your standard you know like you have your press decks your concentrated liquidity like yeah man or are we gonna get some view Innovation that sort of integrates to the 110 million kyc users that could be test or something that actually like has value in the real world rather than just trading or gambling yeah that's a great Point Ryan like you know I I think about gaming quite a bit

for something I don't know much about like specifically in the on-chain uh on-chain gaming realm you know we just saw framework do another 10 million round and do alluvium um and they LED that round I don't know if they took the whole round but uh nonetheless like they're always talking about gaming and they're some of the best in the space so it's interesting to see if like coinbase will take that gaming approach considering like they already have this thing that nobody else has which is users a ton of people use the coinbase app they're gonna start pushing people into the coinbase wallet and then you're you're right there you're probably the default uh place the the default chain you'll probably be using within the the coinbase app at some point will be base and so yeah sure you can go change it yourself but most

people don't know that right out of the gates so it's like gonna be really interesting to see how they funnel from the coinbase application to the coinbase wallet to base because I feel like that's kind of their their top of Market one also super interesting to watch this one play out yeah I actually already noticed the other day that coinbase's app has like a top games kind of like list so like I feel like that could easily be one of the one of the things for bass like because that's a way to circumnavigate kind of the the App Store debacle because like you kind of have a little mini app store within the coinbase app itself so curious if Apple would be smart enough to catch onto that little loophole but nonetheless yeah I agree with your take their Dan that I think

gaming is a pretty Prime candidate for bass I feel like we hit that one pretty well though Dan do you want to go with uh your back half prediction yeah so I uh I wrote about the flipping back in the the end of 2022 and um still I still believe in it actually I do even though I I quite literally top ticked the the East BTC chart with my uh my tweet thread on kind of explaining why it's quite literally been down only since the day of the Tweet but nonetheless it's still it still just makes sense to me so if we think about things going on on bitcoin you know it's maturing it's getting you know used more we're seeing more activity it's had the recent rise of ordinals which has been an exciting development

um but ordinals are I I I I get them they make sense and they're something to do on bitcoin um but they still feel very gimmicky uh and don't seem to have any practical purpose at all uh which is is just seems like it's not going to work so example of that is like if I want to buy a thousand Pepe and there's not a thousand Pepe available for sale I have to buy like three lots that equal a thousand Pepe to just like total that out conversely if I want to sell a thousand of meme whatever meme token there is then someone has to buy that entire lot out of me you can't like break it up um and that's just like obviously not a scalable way to have anything it's not a

token standard it's not like an erc20 where you actually have individual tokens um so it's it's just like feels like you're shoving a a square peg in a round hole I think we've said that a couple times now but um so to me ordinals like aren't truly lasting and I'll throw this chart uh in the show notes but what we have is is a a Bitcoin minor Revenue chart and if you look at that historically and say all right well what percentage of the total Bitcoin minor Revenue fees or from transaction fees versus block subsidies and I will I will say this is a nod in the direction of of the anti-flipping crowd that uh just this this month in May um the total block subsidy fell to like

nearly all-time lows we haven't seen this since March 2021 so Peak bull market um where um block subsidies were actually only 86 percent of the total revenue generated by the miners so uh in last month um ordinal fees were four percent and other transaction fees so anything not involving an ordinal uh was about nine and a half percent so that is a pretty notable stat for the depths of a bear Market however I I just don't again I don't I don't believe in the ordinals being this long-term solution so it feels more like a flash in the pan for me um and again the fact that we're celebrating the nearly all-time high of of uh

transaction fees as a percentage of total minor Revenue around 14 15 percent that says a lot about a chain that's been around for 10 years and I just don't love the direction of that narrative as the chain continues to mature and the block subsidies continue to push closer to the next Avenue now granted that's been a very very bullish event over the last uh the entire history of crypto but I do expect that narrative to change at some point it's like oh no the happenings coming again which means Bitcoin miners are going to start losing Revenue now very importantly I got in a ton of Twitter battles over this it's like that doesn't mean that Bitcoin is dying it's that it's not it is built for this exact scenario it just makes its value

proposition less interesting and as everybody in this space knows narratives matter and if you like are have these dying or these decreasing um block subsidies it becomes less attractive to mind the chain and miners start dropping off of the network because it's not profitable to be there for them which again does not kill Bitcoin there's like that's just an equilibrium where it finds balance until miners drop off and that it pushes the profitability of the remaining miners up to a point where they're making money again and that's fine that that those economies will work but again that's like that'll get taken out of proportion and ruin this Bitcoin first narrative now you take that that's kind of how I

view Bitcoin right now and when you think about ethereum successful upgrade to proof of stake successful Shanghai chappella upgrade that um kind of hardened the proof of stake by enabling withdrawals and dang sharding proto-dink sharding on the way that is a phenomenal progress that the chain has made over the last six to 12 months and we'll do so for another six to 12 months that enables it to further reach its vision of this you know robe Centric road map so it's going to have positive Catalyst after positive Catalyst and when you look at how validators are doing over in that ecosystem growth has been up and to the right if we just look at the last three quarters so Q4 of 2022 q1 of 23 and the current quarter Q2 we've seen continued

quarter over quarter growth for not only youth holders but also East stakers so if you think about like a value flow to each holders you know that's basically their net dilution so the amount that was burned in this period versus the amount of eth issued uh because if issuance does dilute a holder uh you know we've seen this number grow significantly quarter over quarter uh in Q4 2022 the net value flow is around 5000 eth whereas in the current quarter which isn't even over uh it's still only it's only about two-thirds of the way done uh they've had there's been a net value flow about 207 000 eth so about 200 times higher um and so that's where things get more interesting to me is like all right well

we have this more sorry that's 40 times not 200 times nonetheless um it has more interesting narratives where holders and stakers are making or generating profit and earning yields so now it has the yield narrative and you know Wren mentioned the importance of this like on-chain native yield is like well is it really a risk-free reel probably not but what does it actually mean that'll just get propagated and you know we recently talked to the bitwise um our folks from bitwise uh and they were like okay well yes we have this new narrative around ethereum and like yes it's building this roadmap out road map out but institutions are still a little hesitant it's not like they're all just chucking cash into steak teeth and calling it a

day or running their own validators but they're like okay let's let's check it out like there's been a sentiment change it's like all right we we can like we get something's going on here let's investigate it but we're not ready to commit Capital that is a sentiment change that I think is worthy uh of kind of pushing this trend forward um and then lastly you have like this ESG Narrative of like proven work versus proof of stake personally I think that's like bogus but you know if that's what Wall Street wants to propagate then we'll happily be here for it um so I don't know to me it feels like there's just a ton of positive Tailwinds for ethereum and honestly some headwinds that bitcoin's gonna have to deal with and innovate on um and I think that just bodes well for the future growth of ethereum relative

to bitcoin but curious to hear you guys take on it yeah I mean you already know I strongly agree with you here and I think just just put simply it comes down to flows like you said like if you look at the supply side proof of work versus proof of stake uh you obviously Bill see billions of dollars in sell pressure that's not emitted through proof of stake that is through proof of work then you have things like eip1559 where the supply of eth is actually deflationary in most cases and has been this year to a large degree and then on the demand side like you said eth itself has a lot more utility not only uses uh the gas token but as we see lsts within D5 grow the utility to capture that yield and

use those lsts in whatever way possible just continues to get heightened whereas Bitcoin sort of it's only utility sending it from one address to another and so just because of those flows because of a decrease in Supply and increase in demand I just think over time it's inevitable and I know these predictions were supposed to be for the backup of 2023 I don't know Dan if that's your timeline for the film opening I think that's a little too early uh but I think eventually it is inevitable okay okay okay great Point great point maybe I cheated a little bit because I even kind of cheated in the 2023 prediction I said before the end of the next cycle um and yeah like I don't think that like I don't even think Bitcoin is going anywhere it's just that it won't be the

most valuable asset I think uh the base layer of a globally distributed Financial medium is a more attractive value proposition than something that wants to be money but I think has flaws in being money so that's just kind of my view and again I think you're you thank you for pointing that out I do not think this will happen before the end of 2023 but when we're at the height of next signal or next cycle this might be a great top signal where the flipping happens it's like is this peak Euphoria because you probably got that next wave of institutional Capital that was like all right let's investigate this yield thing Now's the Time which again is probably going to be a great top signal but um and I'm sure there'll be like a long-standing battle between the two at some point after the initial flipping is

made where maybe it gives it back up and takes it again like that's that's kind of how I expect this to play I don't expect it to be a a flipping next month and never looks back type scenario yeah I I think it'll probably be two motorcycles before we see a flipping but I do think it'll happen eventually and mainly it just stems from like they're tackling really two different problems like I don't think the average person actually looks at the current monetary system and thinks there's much of a problem and that's exactly what Bitcoin is trying to solve with a predictable monetary Supply and like even in a world where we did see hyperinflation of the US dollar I think that the on and off ramps to crypto would be shut off so like crypto's primary use case in my or sorry a bitcoin's primary use case in my

personal opinion like is just a tough one to actually be fulfilled like within the next two cycles so let's call it six seven years versus ethereum like it makes a lot of sense to a lot of investors it's like well what can you do with ethereum it's like you can build actually better products that are cheaper faster and better for consumers on top of blockchains so like strongly agree with your prediction I just think it's going to take a little bit longer to play out I think one thing that people that maybe like started their career in crypto or like their first introduction or forever finances crypto don't realize this that there's a huge amount of idle Capital out there that's chasing yield like as I

grew up the more I realized like holy people are like so rich and there's so much money out there and there's like a lot of rich people that are a lot richer than you think it's like mentally you may just think like yeah sure like Elon Musk like just face us but there's like a lot of money out of this chasing yield and over the years you've seen people sort of like go up further and further the risker to chase that yield and after that that potentially basically sometimes it blows up right like there's some characters that have grown up in the past but all of that to say that as institutions come in right I'm not I'm probably not at youth Maxi at this point I wouldn't say I am but as institutions come in you're probably

gonna see a few like crypto tokens as the core assets that potentially one day may have like a trillion or like 10 like maybe not 10 trading but a trillion dollar market cap and you're gonna think to yourself okay this asset seems like a good index bet and I can get like a pretty sustainable and a pretty standard deal on it and I think that's a fantastic value proposition yeah Ryan I'm with you there as well and you know I I think we'll see it I think we'll see it like I said next cycle or this cycle this coming cycle but you know like uh like any good man says if you're wrong just push back the time Horizon so on that note Westy what do you got for us yeah my prediction is definitely related

although bringing in the the time frame a little bit but yeah my prediction is that the hottest sector for the rest of the year uh by far will be lst5 or lsd5 however you say it um I think there's other sectors as a whole are sort of you know seeing a lull like the CK epms aren't really seeing adoption like a lot of stuff that we thought we were going to see hype with this year really haven't uh delivered and I think lst5 really has like throughout the beginning of the year we saw lsds with a lot of adoption heading into chappella and now we're seeing a lot of really cool D5 products built around lsts and so I think that momentum is going to continue throughout the rest of the year um I think looking at uh Libra I think is how you pronounce it as like a great

example of like a protocol that's done really well it's like the past couple weeks it's grown to 200 million in tvl really quickly and just with like a little bit of farming incentives so you can imagine that's sort of like a small spark that really uh incentivized a lot of LST Capital to come to that protocol you can only imagine once we get you know models that are a little more sustainable on my opinion that like once those catch on they're going to really catch on throughout the rest of the year and I recently wrote a report on the lsd5 sector in its current state at the moment and identified like five broad sectors and I think each of them will grow so the first was leverage staking which has been popularized by Ave or essentially like you Loop your leverage

around the LST and you're able to capture more yield that way at higher risk and you know yeah we had gearbox as of recent that developed their own leverage shaking strategy as well and I can imagine that a lot of vaults continue to pop up throughout the year especially now that we have llama with curve I think there's going to be a lot of great products there because they're prioritizing lsts as the primary collateral so think that'll grow a lot am liquidity I think is pretty straightforward whichever amm can capture um the most amount of lsts by maximizing yield I think they're going to capture a lot of market share and right now because of frax's uh plug into the the car per complex flywheel I think they're going to do really well in that space in

convex like right now is the majority player but I think balancer and Aura are given them a run for their money uh the LST baskets I think are a really good place for Innovation you have stuff like unsheath which has sort of like a basket underneath their LST and they're creating new protocols although right now it looks like there may be a security vulnerability hopefully they figure that out but uh nonetheless like definitely a lot of experimentation going on there and you can imagine sort of in a convex type style or if you have a large sort of base of these lsts you can build new products uh develop new yield strategies that maybe otherwise weren't possible without that backing and then you have stable coin collateral

it's like I said live brawl has been growing really well and you have other ones such as Prisma and other liquidy Forks that are coming soon that I think are going to spark a lot of uh Innovation a lot of excitement there and then interest rate I think are the final sector and those I don't think we'll see a lot a lot of adoption this year but as we discussed earlier as we as the staking yield maybe becomes sort of like the risk-free rate within crypto itself that there needs to be a way to both trade that yield as well as sort of uh go between the variable yield and potentially stable yield as well so I think you know the lst5 sector as a whole is going to grow a lot throughout the rest of the year yeah I strongly agree with you there

Westy and uh the interest rate stuff seems super interesting to me just because of how prevalent that is in traditional Finance the this I actually grouped this into options though it's like they're super complicated financial instruments that can add a ton of value but to a very specific class of of people um and that specific class of people isn't on chain today and I don't think we'll be on chain tomorrow but I do think they'll be here eventually and so for that reason I'm like just a little bearish on the uh the the usage of those things uh in the in the coming short to medium term um but you mentioned a ton of other really interesting things there that we should unpack and as you mentioned yeah unsheath this down like 60 on the day I think they pause withdrawals this is a

developing situation I really don't know the extent of what's going on there but they must have had some issue related to their withdrawal mechanism and have pause those right now so uh sad to see that one go but that's a kind of highlight that's going to highlight of I expect to see a lot of this going forward and people just essentially taking lsts provide putting on doing something with them whether it's like leveraging the yield or some product that they can attract and grow Capital into you're going to see a ton of rapid growth and you're going to see projects fizzle out for again just trying to capitalize on that rapid growth while sacrificing maybe some some of the slow and steady growth that you tend to see from some of these larger more dominant protocols but is there a particular area that you're most excited about Westie

yeah for me the the area I'm most excited about is sort of using lst's stablecoin collateral because I mean if you look at liquidy in its current form you can only have ether's collateral and you have zero percent interest loans and you can imagine if you apply that to lsts you can have not only zero percent interest rates borrowing against your lsts if you can imagine because of the stablecoin infrastructure we've built around curve and convex balancer and Aura Etc that you can have really high yields for the stable coin as well so you can build sort of like a an ultra D5 protocol that has yield not only on the collateral end but on the stable coin end and so I think something along those lines is going to do extremely well if not multiple protocols and that's

probably the area that has the most growth and is not as straightforward as something like Leverage staking where you just find different ways to leverage your assets like I think there's going to be a lot of creativity in this area yeah strong second on the uh stable coin backed by lsts I would love to see a protocol with a super long-term Vision actually set aside some of the yield on the lst's new and Insurance Fund and then after that compounds for like 10 20 years there's some really interesting stuff you'd be able to do on the more under collateralized lending side but not sure we'll actually get that but one thing's for sure we definitely need like a decentralized stable coin so I'm definitely rooting for that there but my question for you on that theory Westy would be um so obviously maker has like the the

PSM in order to keep die uh at the peg because back in May of 2020 or whatever it was we saw a big liquidation Cascade everyone had to buy back die die price went up which made it more expensive to close loans I foresee the same problem Happening Here Without A PSM type module with usdc or usdt to be able to keep the pegs strong do you have any thoughts on that and how to circumvent that while maintaining decentralization yeah that's definitely a good point and that's why I don't think Libra is necessarily a sustainable model because they're hard-pegging to USD and there's really nothing stopping especially the US dollar stable coin from Trading above Peg especially because it has inherent

yield and from there you can sort of get a liquidation Cascade as the the value goes up the value of the the health factor of the loans go down and all of a sudden uh you have a large liquidation Cascade which is obviously not good but all in other models you can imagine maybe not hard-packing to the US dollar maybe having some sort of floating Peg you can imagine potentially having a PSM with maybe die specifically because now you have the savings rate and sort of like an LST backed loan you can have sort of a die-backed loan and in that sense you can still have yield as collateral and have like a better uh pegging that way um but yeah overall and and also there's another model I don't know if you guys

have heard of cat in the box but essentially rather than like a US dollar stable coin it's an e-stable coin and that way you can have better Capital efficiency because you can borrow at like a pretty high LTV and it's not like hard packed to eat it's pretty soft pegs so like there's a lot of creativity that can go into these things and yeah like you said you have to be careful the hard Peg if you hard Peg like to make sure there's some sort of PSM or way to to to stabilize things but overall I think that's why I'm most excited about this industry is because like there's a lot of creativity that I can go into these models I think one interesting thing to watch for lst5 over the coming years is whether if interest rates are more

efficient than US dollar interest rates on chain I haven't really thought through whether that would be indicative of anything but you know in a purely like efficient market it costs about if on Ave should be the same as a staking you to receive right and just off of the top of my head I think if interest rates being more like in sync across like different chains or different protocols may actually indicate it's sort of like um a more I don't know like money-ness or like more voiceless component to if compared to usdc or like some other stable coin if those stable coins were less like efficient or in sync in terms

of interest rates aren't you and I think that'd be a very interesting Dynamic to say yeah that is a pretty interesting to think about uh man uh I I kind of like thinking about that as well right just because the the looping trade has been so popular on things like Ave because you can borrow eth for less than you're going to earn uh on the LST so you're actually like by looping it you're still earning profit but eventually there'll be a point where that's that's a non-profitable adventure because DeCosta borrowed the eth from the pool will be equal to or or equal close enough to the e-staking yield that that's just not a profitable uh strategy to execute anymore and that's likely the direction we're going I would have to think um just as markets get more efficient

and I mean it's there's just money on the table for people to kind of get involved with and take uh in a relatively low low risk way um so yeah I don't really expect to to see this inefficiency last for too too much longer you know Westy one more thing on this note I want to get your take on is we've seen lst's really really grab a hold of the lending Market but they haven't really come too too in much into the Forefront of the Dex Market um so you still see a lot of the more popular pairs have eth or usdc do you think there's a state where uh an LST token itself becomes like the most popular base pair

yeah I definitely see that feature happening just because like as an LP you're you're going to want to accrue as much yield as possible and if one of your assets is sort of that like automatic rebasing token where the the price um you get more of a relative eth to the the LSD that you have like I think that's just like a no-brainer in most people's brains I think the question is you know which LSD is the one that like is able to capture that market I think uh rap sticky has a good chance of capturing a lot of that on uniswap I think uh staked off raxi there's a really good chance of doing that within curving convex and then potentially uh rocketpool eth within balancer and Oro

so I think I don't think it's going to be a winner take all I think there's going to be a lot of different pools uh with with different uh lsts in this area but I agree that it just makes sense to have the asset paired with like a an LST rather than a wrapped eth um and so yeah over time I think as people trust these lsts more there's more liquidity it's sort of I'll be kind of going to become a flywheel and they're definitely going to be the most used asset Within These pools now that's a super interesting take because I always hear people talk about this how it's like for sure going to be this winner take all scenario steak teeth has such an advantage because Elida just has so much market share right now and that's kind of seems to be

like I guess maybe even the middle of the bell curve take but you had a great point and uh I actually have a flip side dashboard out there that kind of highlights all of this but different lsts have very different dominance levels on different decentralized exchanges and that is an excellent point about how each decks might have its own more popular pair I'm going to play around with that idea that's something really interesting to think about yeah you just know frax isn't going to allow rapstick teeth to be a majority pair on any pool but then convex and so right right and they have the they got the Firepower to make it a problem for lydo and lydo's like should you know they have a close relationship with the

Curve they should want to continue that relationship going they have 1.6 or 7 billion dollars of staked eth on curve like and they and curved at pools don't need uh to actually have the wrap stake teeth you can still use the rebasing token in the pools and LPS still get the rewards which is unlike most other dexes so um yeah this is a super interesting concept we should dive into this more probably a good place to uh to Pivot here Ren what do you have for your 2023 prediction my rest of the 2023 prediction is that cctp circles cross chain transfer protocol will be utilized in more than 85 percent of usdc transaction volume by your end so for those that are

unfamiliar cctp is basically a cross chain infrastructure protocol where anyone can permission this the mint and burn native usdc unsupported blockchains as of today it's only ethereum and Avalanche but by the end of the year circles planning on supporting a few more blockchains including Solana and other chains that they have native vscc on basically uscc represents a much better value proposition for a few reasons number one you're getting native uscc on the destination chain rather than a wrapped version of uscc number two you have sort of a change in the trust assumptions from whatever bridge that

you are originally using to Circle and after all of the rich hacks of 2021 and 2022 probably 2.5 15 or 3 billion has been gone by now it's possible that users are going to just circle more than whatever bridge that they were originally using especially if they're minting wrapped versions of those assets and the two largest stable coins today right ustt usdc I think people often forget that usdt even though it has a much higher market cap like 80 billion probably 50 or 60 billion of that it's just sitting on Tron and just farming or just like skirting Chinese Capital controls and it doesn't really go outside of the Tron Network whereas usdc for most of like the large fridges today

represent between 30 and 60 of transaction volumes and so because it represents a better value proposition and it basically represents a better Bridge execution method I think that's going to significantly change how bridges will basically generate their revenue the key Point here is that Bridges will probably make less money and they're going to have to integrate CCTV because it just provides a vastly better execution here there is a small caveat here that um usdc and cccp you need to wait a longer time because you need to wait for finality on your origin chain whereas some ridges out there for example synapse you only wait like 20 seconds sometimes if you want to do like a uscc

bridge transaction and so there's still going to be like a range of preferences right um maybe you don't want to wait 15 minutes maybe you only want to wait 20 seconds but overall I still hold true to my thesis that I think CCTV is going to be utilized in more than 85 if not 90 of USD transactions average transaction volume by your end yeah I think it's important too to distinguish that you meant uh Bridge transaction volume because obviously there's a hell of a lot of uh raw transaction volume of usdc um but yeah I strongly agree with you man I mean the way I see it is like why would I lock up Ethan ethereum and then

mint a wrapped asset on Avalanche and take on that bridge risk when I can just go via usdc and know that I have Circle backing that transaction like there's just no competition there it's going to be by far the most secure way to bridge it'll probably be one of the cheapest that's for sure the only way I'll be doing it yeah I'm with you as well it's like if I'm not worried about Circle freezing my money in the middle of this transfer then I I don't see why you wouldn't do this to be honest it'll be your most secure way and like anybody that's bridged before knows the stress of at least with like on-chain transfers even though it can still be stressful

especially the first couple of times you do it you at least get like ether scan loaded up and you can see it like pending everybody knows those Bridge explorers don't quite work the same and you have those moments of like where the hell is my transaction um yeah flashbacks to bridging decanto uh before the the UI was even live but uh nonetheless it's like this just seems like a serious Improvement and even things like door chain um which kind of takes a different approach and is strictly native assets you still have exposure to the the structure of the system while your your bridge is be or your Bridge transaction is being executed um and so like I've used Thor chain quite a bit I deeply love what they're doing they can actually connect to

bitcoin which is super cool and nobody else can really hold that hold water with that is as well but this still just feels like a better way to do it to me I I'm with you I think we're going to see high usage of this run I think one thing that I'd like to add is that sure today like a lot of fridge volume comes in the form of if maybe I don't know 30 to 50 of each volume is still in Eve but I want to bet that the actual like one rated users if you ever reach Mass adoption most of them are going to use a stable coin and they're going to denominate their transactions and stable coins rather than if and you know with things like dydx before coming on to Cosmos and they

use usdc for collateral native qrcc coming to above Cosmos and Celestia roll-ups I think uscc could become the stable coin of choice for everyone you know and at that point if CBD uh uscc becomes a stable kind of choice there was another thought that I have while writing my most recent report definitely go check that out if you haven't that basically people don't really want to provide Bridge liquidity anymore because with usdc anything that's paired with usdc in a DEX liquidity pool basically becomes Bridge liquidity and it becomes native Richard liquidity right so for example if uscc is probably the most

liquid pairs on most blockchains today maybe other than like off if like whatever like native like talking of that blockchain is and over time if you think about it with cctp coming online if someone wants to make a cross chainsaw rather than using a bridge where someone else has to provide that liquidity usdc can act as an intermediary and you can basically make a question stop using a DEX on chain one and another decks on chain two and I think that's a sort of like big mental model unlock that I had while writing this report that I'm not saying like bridges are dead I'm just saying that you may need to review their either like security models

or Revenue models because they don't even need like usdc liquidity anymore like for example sign-ups right they use a curved table saw formula to basically balance your cruise and price uh cross chain swap or Bridge transaction but they have plans on integrating cctp for uscc transactions and if you don't need uscc liquidity how are like sign up stable sub who's gonna function they're probably gonna need to relaunch them without uscc which I think is also an interesting application of CCTV so definitely look very hard at your Bridge tokens and how you think you're going to perform over the next one or two years it's gonna be a base filled year the flipping is still on the

table lsd5 is going to be the chief narrative I strongly agree with that take Westie and cctp is going to eat the bridges or at least can make them force them to reevaluate their business models so that's kind of what we're thinking and that's us kind of look into our heads of what we're thinking about the next six months I want to give another shout out to the atom accelerator be sure to check them out we love what they're doing over there for the cosmos ecosystem and the Adam economic zone so be sure to give them a check out that's gonna be it from us guys we will see you next week