Crypto UBI with Santi Siri of Proof of Humanity | GreenPill #3

Transcript

[Music] hello and welcome to the green pill i'm kevin walke and this is the podcast about public goods and regenerative crypto economics today's episode is with santi siri who is the founder of proof of humanity very very excited to have santi on the podcast he is a source of relentless optimism and innovation in the ethereum space and especially regenerative crypto economics i see him as a crusader for civil resistance and ubi as a founder of proof of humanity git coin has a relationship with santi siri where he is exporting civil resistance into get coin and we were one of the first integrations into proof of

humanity which is a civil resistance mechanism that is ethereum native um proof of humanity is a civil resistance mechanism as its base layer but they've also launched ubi which is a token that is streamed to members of the proof of humanity registry every second of every day and provides ubi upon which there's actually dozens if not hundreds of people that are relying on for that for financial support so using ethereum to solve poverty using ethereum to solve civil resistance and to create a more digital democratic world that is regenerative crypto economics and i am so excited to bring you santi siri the founder of proof of humanity so you've got some money but

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have something of value that you think you want to contribute to the uniswap ecosystem no matter how big or small your idea is you can apply it for a unique grant at uniswap uniswapgrants.org and help steer uniswap in the direction that you think it should go thank you uniswap for sponsoring bankless all right hello everyone i am here with santi siri the founder of proof of humanity what's up santi what's up kevin a pleasure to be talking with you my friend yeah likewise uh tell us about proof of humanity and what you've been up to so the proof of humanity isn't even a year and we launched the protocol in march 2021 so it's been quite crazy since uh it's a civil resistance protocol for

formalizing human identity on the blockchain and on top of that we're doing a universal basic income cryptocurrency called ubi and um ever since we launched this project it's been quite a roller coaster for us um it's it's a nice team involved with some folks coming from the cleros team which is an arbitration system built on the blockchain and some folks coming from democracy earth which is a foundation that i ran trying to research democracy for the information age and it's been you know quite uh quite a thrill to launch something like this and so far the the registry keeps growing you know more people keep joining from all over the world and especially a lot of people also from latin america

especially because many of us founders come from from from there got it so it seems like uh for me being familiar with your your work i originally knew you through democracy earth where you were researching democracy for the information age and i guess it would it be fair to say that you discovered the opportunity for proof of humanity through that work yeah pretty much like when we started democracy earth was after the experience of doing a political party in argentina departido de la red or the net party and we started building technology trying to figure out what it takes to build a democracy over the internet what are the big hurdles and we kept doing pilots

of democracy all over the world we we have that pilot in hong kong in tunisia in spain in mexico you name it and quite clearly one of the you know killer aspects of this or choke points uh aspects of these pilots was whoever runs the registry of voters whoever gets to decide who gets the rights to vote pretty much can tumble the election uh so pretty pretty quickly we realized in some of the pilots we got you know civil attacked by uh you know a single ip coming from china in hong kong sending like apparently hundreds of thousands of fake users hijacking or shadow referendum to

elect a a major for hong kong which was done in telegram or in argentina we've done a pilot and also like the workers party suddenly injected a lot of fake accounts into the system so the problem of identity clearly became very relevant and like edwards know that once said you know identity is the one vulnerability being exploited across all systems so it was really interesting to converge into this conversation around proof of humanity uh a lot of folks are were interested into researching that particular problem including vitalik himself and that led to the creation of the proof of humanity protocol

which we launched in march last year and it's you know a very simple way to try to figure out how to create human identity without relying on a big brother or a centralized authority that could really influence or or or change the registry so it's interesting because now since we launched we have been able to actually run a democratic now the proof of humanity now is one person one vote it uses liquid democracy so you can delegate your vote to someone else and it's one of the first democratic experiments running on ethereum yeah i i think just think that there's a huge opportunity santi to move a whole

ecosystem from one token one vote or one cpu one vote schemes to one human one vote and what i just like have a ton of respect for with proof of humanity is that you've solved that foundational building block um and and that enables not only ubi which is the natively integrated uh crypto economic mechanism in in the proof of humanity dao but also for what i'm working on with quadratic funding at get coin grants it's a it's a building block of of what we're doing with quadratic funding because quadratic funding falls apart if you can make up new identities and vote with the mechanism so um first off i just want to make sure that we pinch and zoom on that and and that the audience can recognize how much of a foundational building block uh for upgrading digital democracy

civil resistance and and identity is um but i'm wondering if you could tell me a little bit about the ubi side of the coin with proof of humanity uh you know how how does that work i think that i think that it streams to my wallet every block uh if i'm not mistaken that's correct uh so the smart contract of the uvi token is actually very simple it's once you get verified on proof of humanity that means that your address the address that you have used for proof of humanity is able to start accruing uvi tokens at a rate of 1 uvi per hour so you start accumulating actually in real time it gets the token gets streamed into your wallet so you it's like a fraction of uvi per second or

every actually you will see it on metamask updating every 15 seconds or so when every new block is changed to the blockchain and the the challenge with the uei token of course is to generate different use cases to generate utility and to generate an ecosystem around it that helps reduce the supply in order to help everyone that is accruing uei through proof of humanity so now we have you know different nft projects that are doing different kinds of games that are burning ubi we have a couple of iron bolts that accumulate ether and generate some yield with that ether and we use the yield to burn uvi tokens

um you know a wide range of projects that are coming up and being developed that are trying to you know burn ubi tokens and i think that as we become much more you know connected to the ecosystem of ethereum as a whole um the the whole narrative around the ui will get very very interesting uh vitalik himself he actually bought a huge chunk of uvi tokens with his shiva inu tokens and burned them uh he actually burned almost the entire supply of ubi available which was pretty cool and then he started actually accumulating now he's one of the ubi whales himself so it's exciting to see that ethereum

can start addressing you know this this social challenge of you know the thing about ubi that excites me the most is that it can really hold the promise of you know addressing poverty or addressing people that are really you know say trying to to meet the you know their their daily needs and this is a way that ethereum can become very helpful in society right and that's one of the things as you know i'm interested in exploring on this podcast is ways that ethereum can create positive externalities for the world and not just for the world but like the everyday people in it and ubi is this exciting mechanism because once you get people able to pay their rent pay their electricity bills pay their groceries they can focus more on the self-actualization layer of of their

human needs and less on just making ends meet um and and i think that that's a really interesting mechanism for creating more human flourishing is is ubi of the proof of humanity variety the largest ubi experiment in the world i just think it's so crazy that bureaucrats uh in governments for so long have been talking about ubi and it seems like you've created one of the most successful experiments without the backing of a nation state or funding it with taxes yeah that's a i'm a bit shy of making a statement like that but if you look into the academic literature of experiments of ubi being done since the 70s onwards there's not a uvi experiment as large as this one we had over 50 million dollars

worth of ubi being transacted with the token uh almost it's going to be 15 000 people very soon joining the proof of humanity registry is not a lot if you compare it with traditional web 2 systems but with other decentralized identity systems i think it's growing in a very nice way and yeah it's it's you know it's a it's been going on for almost a year now uh and it's uh exciting to see where this move forwards because of the incredible support of the entire ethereum community amazing so can you paint me a picture of uh where this is all going five or ten years out what do you think that ubi proof of humanity ecosystem will have evolved into well definitely i hope that

we are able to reduce some of the hurdles of what it takes to what it takes to do a proof of humanity profile like right now the deposit requirement is prohibited to a lot of people we have a crowdfunding mechanism but of course we want to make that way more efficient uh hopefully you know with scalability layer twos will be able to make the whole system also work with much more friendly fees um and trying to really start talking in the range of millions of users and not just thousands of users and then there's the whole ecosystem around ubi i'm i'm very supportive of projects out there and you know either metavirus projects or nft projects or uh

d5 projects that are looking into ways of using their fees to burn ubi so any project that you start the burning ubi with automatically becomes a project that has solidarity with everyone receiving uvi in the first place so it's very easy to turn a video game or you know any kind of entertainment or any kind of defy system into something that has you know solidarity with the people the second you know it uses fees to burn this token so i hope to see an ecosystem of you know applications and and cool [ __ ] built uh around the idea of burning uvi because the effect that you it will have on the

users the embracement that you know it will automatically receive the love of the entire proof of humanity community and uh i think that you know it's a it's a great way of making our entertainment hours a little bit more purposeful than you know just you know playing a game and that's it amazing i um i i want to like pinch and zoom on the ubi bit because i know that there's people whose lives have been changed by ubi today i asked you the question of what's where is it gonna be in five or ten years and and i think that it's you know it's interesting to think about millions of users using using ubi but the seed of that legitimacy for the millions of users stories the thousands

of users who are who are using it right now and and receiving i think in some cases on the order of twelve hundred dollars per month like enough to pay their their rent and really accomplish the goals of ubi is that more or less accurate yeah i mean in argentina uh where i come from i you know of course there's a nice community over there and a lot of people are suddenly actually using web3 for the first time in their lives through proof of humanity and through researching and wanting to learn about ubi so it's an exciting you know onboarding mechanism for crypto as a whole uh where you know you don't need to have a bank account you don't need to go through an exchange in order to get on board into something like proof of humanity proof of humanity gives you like a little bit of crypto

and a little bit you know an account and a website account and you're ready to go and um that's a nice way of you know starting onboarding mechanisms that are not relying on traditional exchanges or traditional fintech or or you know you traffic traditional finance uh which at the end of the day a lot of the onboarding of crypto today is still reliant on the traditional banking system so it's been a great way to onboard new people to crypto for the first time they are not coming you know maybe are not even bankerized but through this mechanism they have a little crypto to start spending or to start experimenting with the different systems that they will discover in ethereum

and the the one incredible thing about ubi you know even though you know the founding team we are all people that have been living you know in a nomadic life internationally but actually our largest community right now is spanish-speaking it's mostly has been most impactful in latin america of course we have users all over the world but the fact that it's able to reach a region that desperately needs crypto desperately needs an alternative to the to the financial system or to the corrupt institutions in in our countries i think it's a a great statement that you know uvi is impacting where where it need it's needed the most and uh i'm hopeful to see this you know growing over the years um you know if you ask me

on a 10 year 20-year time frame or maybe 30-year time frame a couple of decades from now i think crypto has the potential to help everyone anywhere in the planet to be able to meet their needs on on everyday life like we can see crypto delivering global ubi for everyone and and to to me you know the the exciting thing about this project is that that it's also a level playing field technology the person in madagascar or mozambique or or in india receives the same amount of ubi than someone in connecticut or london or l.a and this level playing field technology is a miracle of what we

can do with these crypto networks and that's the challenge you know how we can grow and make sure this is yeah like everyone is is welcome here absolutely everyone and that's that's the biggest phase yeah i mean i think the possible scale of this is just incredible given that anyone can participate from anywhere across the world so i want to drill in and really put a um a visceral note on this because i i think that you know you can talk about the system and you can talk about the numbers until the cows come home but until you really talk about the examples then i think that sometimes it's not completely visceral for everyone but like you were recently in uh buenos aires with vitalik walking around and and i know that there's been inflation in our uh in

buenos aires and the pandemic and uh can you tell me what it was like to meet the users that you're affecting with this system and to be walking around with with vitalik i bet he's quite the celebrity down there it was wild you know um it's it's i haven't been in argentina since uh two years ago since the pandemic started so suddenly i go back to my country two years later after the pandemic and it turns out that the perfect combination of high inflation capital controls subsidized energy combined with the pandemic that apparently gave a lot of people time to learn about this stuff on youtube combined with a bull market of 21 suddenly i arrived to buenos aires

you know i'm flying there to help vitalik to you know have an to have the best possible experience as he learns about my country and hopefully my country to discover this amazing human being vitalik buterinis and the first thing i realized very quickly is that vitalik has mick jagger status in argentina like crypto became really really the adoption of crypto really accelerated accelerated significantly i'm used to seeing in the developer community you know in the hacker community of buenos aires i knew that we already had a lot of developers and a lot of hackers building on ethereum but suddenly i discovered that everyone you know under 30 years old in buenos aires

is using crypto and they're using it because they need it not because it's a theoretical quirk or an opportunity to you know make more money they use it because we don't have a currency we don't have a legal ability to buy us dollars we use it because we need it we desperately need to use ethereum we desperately need to use stable coins we desperately need to use this technology for survival and the adoption of crypto in argentina is insane and vitalik for the first time i i talked about this with him a lot like for it's the first country he visits where he cannot walk one or two blocks without being recognized as someone asking him for a selfie like suddenly he discovered a kind of celebrity status or he unlocked

a level of celebrity that is worthy of a hollywood star and it was very wild to see that he was actually able to meet a former president of argentina he met the city major of buenos aires he met he did an event that sold out in three minutes uh for a thousand people that you know they you know it was an incredible event in a beautiful theater in buenos aires and it was widely successful he met even he had a lot of proposals and he even had a proposal to visit islam and he chose to go to the islam and we went to this popular neighborhood in buenos aires uh and we walked around with vitalik even some

left-wing activists joined the the conversation there so he made a wide range of politicians uh you know he met he really saw the reality of argentina not just the nice places for the tourists and he was really fascinated by this uh you know the billboards in the streets of all of the startups offering crypto uh he's you know he's discovering a new level of popularity uh the affection and the love of the argentines for for him was enormous the media went all all crazy around him television you turned on the tv in argentina during that week and a lot of tv channels were talking about him and who he was so suddenly a lot of people learned about ethereum uh if they

haven't already for the first time during that week and it was uh an incredible experience i think vitalik went back you know he kept on traveling his nomadic life and he went back very happy from his experience in argentina and i i was mind blown this is something that vitalik said you know you have el salvador where crypto adoption is top down you have the millennial president pushing bitcoins through everyone's throat but in argentina crypto adoption is bottom up it's not a politician but actually the people that need this and want this and are trying to explore their startups being made are developers building stuff there there's a lot of users growing the adoption so i was fascinated by my own

my city my own city and my own country i wasn't expecting that level you know i live in madrid i live in spain and it feels like here in spain we are 20 years behind argentina right now like the level of adoption i've seen in buenos aires was crazy and hopefully vitalik had a great time when while he was there yeah knowing vitalik i know that he's a little bit shy and he may have superstar status but i don't know if he if he really wants to be a celebrity um so i think that must have produced some probably fun moments i i do want to talk about how you said that everyone under 30 years old was using it and not because it was a theoretical thing but because they they need it uh and that they don't really have a

currency in argentina do you think that cryptocurrency is more legitimate than the argentinian government's currency that might be a loaded question but oh no it's not loaded at all it's a hundred percent like that argentina doesn't have a currency like it really does wow you know i we all argentines we have grown with our parents telling us you know never trust the argentine peso uh we have been you know [ __ ] over over over and over again either through high inflation or either through the the banks keeping our savings and suddenly devaluing the currency this has been happening in argentina for you know decades if not probably centuries

since the country was born and sadly you know it's a reality that led to everyone is used to when you buy property or when you buy a car or you buy something relatively expensive that's price in u.s dollars that's never priced in argentine pesos um so it's has always been unofficially like uh be monetarily a monetary system like where you know u.s dollars and pesos living together even though it's not like the legal narrative coming from the government and when crypto emerged it was a natural fit in argentina it's a country where you will speak with about inflation with a taxi driver you will you know discuss prices

and discuss the economy with absolutely everyone you know we discuss the economy as much as we discuss about football and it's really a wild country in that sense so the fact that i think that there's a golden generation of developers right now of engineers between probably between 20 and 35 years old that have been embracing crypto like crazy and that's why a lot of the interesting protocols and projects that are happening on ethereum a lot of those projects actually had argentine developers behind them if you look into maker dao or decentraland or cleros or proof of humanity or or you know open separate hard hat you know all of these tools it's this generation of developers who

are the children of hyperinflation these are the children of the you know the convertibility that led to our savings being stolen by the government and the banks uh and we grew up watching all these misfortunes literally speaking uh with you know to our families and to our communities and it's clear to me that that's why a new generation of developers embraced ethereum like uh nowhere else in the world and that's why a lot of interesting innovation is emerging from there and and i think that's uh it's a blessing in in disguise you know this all of these economic traged that we have been living suddenly you know it is leading to our

country leapfrogging you know like uh in a very fast and aggressive way the adoption of crypto in the biggest highway of the of the country the the billboards in the you know around the highway there's all it's all about crypto startups and some of these startups raise tens of millions of us dollars uh in funding and these are not just startups like in the dot-com era that raise a lot of funding i have no clients i went and visited some of these startups and they are selling credit cards that do cashback in crypto they are having they are selling thousands hundreds of thousands of credit cards per month so the the the the market is really there people are really using this technology and it's

growing in an incredible way i haven't seen this in europe where i live so it's it's to me it's mind-blowing the fact that crypt is impacting a place like that in south america in such a profound way that that you know and you will see it on the streets you will see the you know more and more shops accept stable coins as a way of payment now it's it's a very becoming a very common practice and i think it speaks greatly about this technology this technology giving people an opportunity where they need it the most right i think that's amazing validation living a bankless life requires taking control of your own private keys not your keys not your crypto that's why so many in the bank list nation already

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these apps at portal.arbitrum and you can bridge your assets over to arbitram using bridge.arbitrum.io in order to experience defy and nfts the way it was always meant to be fast cheap and friction free and one of the things that i don't think i don't know if it's coming across to the audience but i've known you for years through your work with democracy earth and before you had launched proof of humanity i think that you were kind of like a a niche star in the activist in digital democracy space as it was budding and um and and just so the audience knows that santi has been toiling and working on these problems for years and the success is not accidental i know that you've been working hard systematically to find and

validate opportunities for creating more digital democracy and human thriving and so one of the things i want to ask about santi is like you know is this success like is it is it does it feel validating for you to have found this use case that's really affecting people's lives and and where did the optimism come from for you when you were toiling in obscurity and you were kind of like lesser known like where did that drive come from intrinsically to really want to start to solve these problems before it was obvious to everyone in in 2022 that there was really something here is there something more intrinsic that drives you well i you know what i think the optimism for me always came from community

i have very fond memories of my first step con conferences i remember in prague when i suddenly opened the door i discovered you know all of the amazing ethereum community and the the fact of you know of knowing that we're not building this alone that we are all supporting each other that we're all learning from each other's projects that everyone had a very open attitude towards everyone else and i guess you know if i go back to the bear market years that you know trying to figure out stuff and doing pilots here and there what kept me going on is definitely the the thrive or the the will to learn the will to learn from amazing people and you know

a community that fosters diversity plurality ideological plurality um openness to discuss any kind of idea and you know community was really important for me when you know trying to figure out what we're trying to do and if you look into the how proof of humanity was born was born out of you know a communal effort it was the cletus guys that were trying to figure out this problem as well and had an interesting technology to sort a key aspect of it it was vitalik himself joining me on the different channels and sharing ideas a lot of researchers the radical exchange community you know all of the people that you keep meeting

along the way and i could give you a lot of names that you probably know them very well of people that have been incredibly helpful that taught me a lot and you know to me that the return of investment of working with this technology is how much we get to learn and understand about the world and then if we can push some code in some repo that actually makes it on that actually has some adoption even better because you know it's it's it's a nice validation to the effort and the ideas that you know we have been trying to research for many years so to me not it's 2021 has been a very generous year uh especially because of what happened with proof of humanity and ubi and the fact that there's you know it's a

growing community like when i think about what i enjoy the most about this project uh it's not the price of the token it's not the uh you know the profits registered in proof of humanity it's the community behind it that blows my mind i discovered very quickly that you know members of the community were crowdfunding funds for people that really needed the funds to get their profile of proof of humanity or people that were doing you know nfts to help the burn ubi uh and suddenly to me the mind-blowing thing about building with decentralized technology and crypto is that suddenly what it's an idea being built by a small team suddenly all of these innovations get parallelized by the effort of a

community and ideas start you know appearing everywhere and they don't just appear as an idea sometimes they even appear in final four someone has already developed a vault here or you know a contract there and it's all uh this conversation all of this incredible effort being led by a community and i guess you know vitalik probably feels the same way when he travels around the world and discovers the local community in every country must be a fascinating feeling to see you know a creation that you worked on you know very hard writing the paper or you know pushing some code and eventually discovering in all countries around the world more and more people embracing this idea building

stuff with it and in a smaller way smaller scale with proof of humanity that the most satisfactory thing for me has been that and i'm sure that you have lived through very similar things with you know the incredible growth that bitcoin had over over the last years supporting uh you know the development of these public goods and these incredible resources that we all all of us then find ourselves using this to build the next interesting experiment yeah and there's one thing that i want to say about that is that i know that there are many founders that kind of grinded through the bear market and toiled in obscurity through the the just basically years without extrinsic motivation and i feel a special type of

a kinship with with those people who have just kind of systematically tried to solve this problem and one of the things that i really love about web3 is that bitcoin and proof of humanity are so complimentary and then i think about giveth and then retroactive public goods funding and doing good and radical drips and it just feels like we're building this pluralistic infrastructure for the public good where this the each of the our projects can can slingshot each other and we can all be successful and and to me it's just such a beautiful uh thing to think about how deeply this could scale to help humans all across the world but also how pluralistic it is it doesn't rely on any specific project for all of the success that can happen and so um

yeah i i guess i'm wondering if if your vision differs from mine at all like what does the space of regenerative crypto economics look like and how can we all help each other in order to in order to build it yeah it's when you know with web3 i think it's kind of like i think i tweeted this recently like if you want to go fast go alone if you want to go far go together you know and in web 3 what i found that has been incredibly critical for a project to succeed is you know where you fit in in the greater puzzle of everything that's going on and where you can make a contribution that is either able to compose with other projects or to leverage you know another project and contribute in a

specific way that you know empowers not only your project but also the community as a whole and that's that's the ethos of open source development that's the ethos of building with a community you know not caring about your code or your intellectual property or stuff like that i think a lot of that logic is rendered obsolete when you think about you know how we build these networks and these systems and and that's an incredible way of building things i like at the end of the day you know ethereum is still a subset in the greater movement of open source and free software and this has been going on since you know a couple of decades now and it's just the fact that now we are you know when we

build with crypto we're actually building institutions we're building the institutions of the future the way of coordination and organization that it's can achieve planetary scale and it can really impact you know the planet as a whole but we're doing it under a philosophy that is really not exactly not the philosophy of you know american capitalism of the 20th or 19th century it's a complete new way of understanding how we can create value and it's completely overtaking every every single other model of value generation out there to the point that you have you know the largest venture capital firms today embracing west 3 as well uh which means it's a cultural triumph all over the place and in that

regard you know i'm very optimistic about what when we have it you know looking at what we have been able to achieve so far it's amazing but it feels like we are still a very small thing when we when you walk around the street and when you walk anywhere in the world there's there's still a world out there waiting to adopt or to discover these new technologies so it's an exciting time to be in this space because it's still the the very very early days yeah absolutely and i think that this is where the foundation is being laid for those what do you say 21st century native institutions it's such a yeah that's such a big statement santi oh my gosh well yeah i like only for big statements yeah well i mean i do see the

foundations of it but i'm you know i i think i'm trying to stay humble as we figure out the scalable path to long-term growth and i think it's it's you know to me it's holding those two opposing thoughts in my mind of how could this grow in order to be big in civilizational scale while also staying humble about the problems that we hit their day which i know ukraine has plenty but i don't want to i don't want to say that others do as well um is there anything that i didn't ask you that you want to tell us about proof of humanity regenerative cryptoeconomics your view on the world uh what did niask that you want to tell us about oh man i don't know it's uh it's been a great conversation already i think i'm you know i'm i'm excited about proof of humanity

and and the proof you know either if it's proof of humanity or if it's something else in the future i don't mind uh the fact that you know we are coordinating and building on ethereum the social ethidium i think it's gonna be super exciting because you know we have seen on the web 2 movement the emergence of social media social media is incredible it has given us a voice everyone has a voice everyone is able to speak their truth whatever that truth is sometimes not so much the truth but you know everyone has a voice and that's a big thing uh but the exciting thing about a social ethereum is that it's not about the voice but it's also about impacting you

know the pockets of people you know you know really transforming the economy really transforming how how we address society not just from the ability to give people the capacity to speak but also giving people the capacity to be financially included the capacity to become you know a member in society where their rights are recognized uh in a permissionless way without requiring a central authority or without requiring you know corruptible institutions in the middle mediating for our rights and i'm excited to see the the growth of the social ethereum i think that the next big chapter after defy and nfts i certainly

hope it's it's the social ethereum where uh you know we we start building technology that starts looking to society that starts really pushing these innovations for and putting this innovation in the hands of everyone no exceptions and and that's uh you know i talked with vitalik about this and he gave me his view of you know in the bay area in san francisco you have a lot of incredible technology being built but a lot of that technology is only purely software driven and has no connection to society or to reality and so you have a society where you have a lot of people living in the streets you have a huge problem with

homelessness you have uh you know people you know facing very terrible realities in living right next to the greatest wealth being generated in modern time so when vitalik mentioned you know was explaining me why he was supporting something like proof of humanity he was telling me i want to make sure that whatever technology we build is not blinded from impacting society that we are actually able to push innovation and technology that helps make society and a real life you know for people a better place and i think that the more we start thinking about social applications on ethereum uh that's gonna be you know very very impactful uh in the same way

that social media shaped uh the world in the last decade i'm pretty sure that in the next decade the social ethereum is gonna really transform people's lives amazing so let me run this quickly definition by you for a genre of cryptoeconomics that i've been working on focusing on which i call regenerative cryptoeconomics so basically cryptoeconomic systems that create positive externalities and are generally net positive create balance in zika equilibrium and also those that satisfy human needs uh is there anything you would add subtract or change about that definition of regenerative cryptoeconomics uh economics that that hits humans human needs

that's an amazing definition and i think we should definitely meme uh regions instead of lesions uh i think regions is a much better philosophy an attitude and spirit than the divisions that have been you know leading the the narrative around d5 the last couple of years yes well um you have done your small part in helping us meme regen into existence by appearing on the regenerative crypto economics podcast so santi siri founder of proof of humanity thanks so much for joining me today uh this podcast will be released in february so looking forward to uh memeing that forward together when that happens where can people find you online in the meantime i'm at santi city pretty much everywhere

and i spend a lot of time on twitter i like to troll and hang out there and please come say hi if you're a friend of k you're a friend of mine amazing all right thanks so much santi great to have you my pleasure my friend [Music]