Cosmos in 2024 LIVESTREAM with Cryptocito, Sam Hart, Farmer and Stephen TCG

Transcript

we're live I'm Seb 3.0 Wishing you happy holidays 2023 was insane for Cosmos but can the ecosystem keep up this momentum break out of the crypto nerd Niche and attract more developers products liquidity and users so joining me to look back on 2023 of course and make some predictions about what's next in stored I've I've assembled a stellar panel here today we have farmer who is my favorite Cosmos D gen and CEO of defi Dojo validation he represents the retail investor all you little guys Steven the calculator guy founder of defi Dojo kryptoo which

everybody knows and Sam Hart had a product and strategy at skip so what's coming up in 2024 for Cosmos you got to stay tuned to find out before we get started make sure to subscribe hit like button and like this video to get notified when I go live every week and remember to stake with inro Ventures we're validating on OS Quicksilver and a few of networks osmosis Cosmos in 2024 that's coming up next right here on the interrupt

[Music] GM how's everybody doing hello hello all good here how man morning happy to be here thanks s yeah well thank you for making for making it I mean um doing a doing a podcast on December 29th uh isn't always easy cuz like people are busy they got family they're traveling and so um you guys are really uh you guys are really you know showing up here to do this uh so I appreciate it and I think everybody who's watching here will appreciate it as well so yeah I mean how's uh how's

everybody's holidays so far any uh any interesting things happening or what are your highlights for 2023 anything you want to share I can maybe start um yeah I mean I think you know the like eight weeks ago I think the state of crypto was much different like everyone is still like um you know Thanksgiving Christmas everything is going to be very very sad for us we all have to confront our families with this this crazy crypto year everything that happened but I think you know things things turn out um to to be quite well towards the end of the year I think especially Cosmos like in the past couple of weeks I got a lot

of inbound I'm sure all of you you guys you know um a lot of people are now curious to learn like what's what's kind of the the next big Cosmos play the next big Cosmos narrative um and people are really doing their homework now on this whole apun thesis I think Cosmos is very unique in many things um so it's it's a bit more complex to understand there's not one base chain that you can invest all your money and kind of capture the whole ecosystem but um yeah I think there's a lot that's coming a lot of big launches I think Celestia was one of the highlights also in the past couple months and S network um also going to the Moon right now so that that's nice but yeah the holidays I think for me been being chill you know just just here my C2 HQ in Dubai um nothing nothing too

fancy just you know chilling and kind of recovering from from all the travels also it's been a lot this year but uh nothing fancy about Dubai nothing nothing at all that in that Shack of a town the thing in Dubai like you can you can obviously do like crazy fancy stuff and you know bling bling Lamborghinis and everything but you can also live a very normal life here right and I'm just at home like for for Christmas we just you know made some or ordered some food to just eat at home and stay in and it's actually Chill Vibes here so yeah I I think you you know who has not been here yet should definitely come visit and maybe next year there's going to be plenty of reason to to come here for Cosmos people so who knows ah dropping

some Alpha are we dropping some Alpha here I don't know all right well we'll look out for that um yeah Sam how how's uh how's your holidays going and um what are your highlights your 2023 highlights I mean this could be personal professional you know sort of ecosystem yeah yeah I I had a really nice Christmas I was mentioning before I I went to Paris for a couple days because my my girlfriend was was there for work so we just stuck around and did some some very like cute things alone in the streets in Paris um good place to be it was not super restful so I'm excited to actually get some you know

get a get a break for a moment um yeah I mean hard to summarize 2023 um I just like macro it feels like uh most of the year was uh was kind of defined by like increasing like Despair and like self-doubt you know um and then only the last couple months month or two people like you know the markets picked up and um I had a lot of conversations with people uh that this was like their first cycle and it was like very

psychologically you know challenging for them um so it was my my first cycle where I was like you just need to to push through and like go you know have have some conviction um so that was an interesting experience for me yeah I mean I definitely uh definitely things seems to be turning around and we'll we'll definitely talk about that but uh yeah maybe Stephen uh any uh any interesting highlights for you in 2023 I mean you you you've you're a self-proclaimed yield man and uh and wielder of a calculator so what's what's your self Proclaim it was defi Dave from the fra system who called me a truffle

sniffer but for yields and I and I've adopted that name ever since but it has been an incredible year in yields so during the bare Market funding re Arbitrage sort of got us you know my community through we were getting you know between like 10 and 30% APR on delta neutral uh yields and that was like the best thing ever we were so happy to be getting that because everyone was risk off you know people like farmer were accumulating really really intelligently so well done him um great job on that but then last two months we see such an influx of volume and volume brings yield and yields have just been skyrocketing so like if you go into uh IBC like osmosis is a great example when what was it the first

airdrop I think it was the the te air drop was the really big one brought so much volume to osmosis that yields were just like popping off everywhere left and right that was Fant fantastic so love to see volume love to have high features when there's volume uh right now funding rates have also skyrocketed so one of the things that people are doing it's really exciting is like funding rate Arbitrage but not just that it's delta neutral airdrop funding rate Arbitrage so it's like all these fun components put together so for people who are riskof who don't understand IBC yet they can participate in all this great IBC stuff and also participate in like uh the securitization of these chains by by delegating while also you know being riskof if they want to be like if me I'm totally risk on 100% of my portfolio is

is long right now because that's the the you know my current perspective uh but for those who don't you can get paid like literally literally between 50 and 100% API of a spoon uh 50 and 100% APR to be delta neutral and be like staking your tia staking your dydx staking your atom staking your osmo um well osmo not quite so much anymore since Lana is going through a bit of a time right now uh but yeah I mean yields have been great it's been a really good time for strategists and uh when when those numbers go up and when the asset number goes up I think we're all sort of happy definitely risk on at the moment uh also uh I can

uh I can definitely say that we're also very very risk on at the moment you know whether personally or with the fund um yeah farmer how about you how's defi for retail how's defi doing for retail right now well I think um it's better than ever and uh Cosmos D5 vision is coming together in the way that we've been talking about for years and hoping it would come together you know I think especially CTO like over the last couple years has just been like you know building the bare Market stay positive go to conferences buy the bottom and then like uh it happened and it was perfect and it worked and that was the right strategy and the right thing to do instead of uh sort of getting mad at the world and

yelling uh on Twitter all day at people you know um it didn't make a lot of sense so I think my highlights for 2024 uh I think injective is number one I think injective has been uh the strongest in the market uh for the entire year it's been up only and um I think that the shift from uh retail from injective to injectives ecosystem is going to be one of the most exciting things in in 2024 and then obviously uh Celestia and SE um SE had a horrible launch it seemed like uh the community kind of turned on them and they weren't happy with the amount of air drops they got or whatever it was and um I'm super happy to see

them turn it around right now before the end of the year it's looking great um osmosis had a crazy year um it's really good to see them keep building and building on what they've switching from uh to concentrated liquidity and done a lot of other like really Stellar moves that are going to be incredible in the bull market that um people weren't really paying attention to in the bare Market um and then dydx as well I think it's been incredible for the ecosyst uh there's been a lot of fud lately about the unlocks and I think it's just a perfect uh time to accumulate dydx and like Stephen was saying you can you could go on dydx and go delta neutral earn free dydx token

stake them and then get usdc as staking rewards and then go and use that to delta neutral again and it just creates this like defi infinity loop where you can just go on forever um and so there's just incredible opportunities everywhere I concur I concur s um incredible well I mean if I can on my side you know it's been a pretty eventful year as well like on a personal level but also in you professionally obviously like we uh we went Allin interchain and launched interupt Ventures and announced the launch of that uh just a couple weeks ago we're still fundraising uh and have started

deploying capital in some early stage projects but you know also uh in liquid tokens just because there's such an opportunity right now um to to capitalize on on the way the markets are heading and so like yeah we're we're very bullish on the interchain ecos system and who we've definitely felt you as we were sort of fundraising you know throughout the year also increased interest in the interchain ecosystem whether um from the perspective of uh sort of ogs right like investors within the space and investors outside of the space that when I say the space I mean like sort of the interchain uh or Cosmos ecosystem uh a lot more interest for

Cosmos and people are definitely like paying attention so it feels like 2024 could be like a a a pretty important moment for Cosmos um and yeah that's that's what we're betting on right I mean that's that's that's the whole that's the whole thesis uh at interrupt Ventures so maybe to add one one thing here like what you really saw in the bare markets for the past two years I I think Cosmos got specifically hit uh with the Terra collapse right and US was the the main stable coin on osmosis right a lot of things were were affected from that but I think it did two things one it kind of um has proven the the app chain thesis to work um and two it also kind of um redistributed the entire

ecosystem right because now you see a lot of these Xterra projects coming back as individual teams or individual chains right and I think mention they're going through through some some things right now but you have Mars protocol um um you have terra itself that's kind of you know re repositioning itself um and and a lot more prism is is launching soon um white whale right leg you have all these these smart teams being now fully IBC aligned and and kind of having their their own kind of Vibes and obviously Kira they' have also been been killing it and have this full stack defi product Suite which is also really cool and I think I remember like I think it was just shortly after Terra collapse I

think I did a Twitter spaces with Billy Billy renom and also I think Jake was on there and they were both like man we're actually kind of looking forward to a phase where the market enthusiasm and Euphoria is kind of cooling off a little bit because that gives us time to build I think you have really seen this in Cosmos specifically um I think also in Solana and other ethereum of course and and many others but I think specifically in Cosmos you have a very very strong ecosystem of Builders and developers you know that are just so committed and they actually I think took the bare Market to to um to advance to to improve to see how we can reposition ourselves our

chain our to economics right and also kind of anticipated what what's what's the next thing and and and then be there when when the bull market comes back right um I think there were also a couple of teams maybe and projects that did not make it through the through the bare Market obviously financially it's been insanely hard for I guess all of us to be honest um but yeah I think that's kind of what you're seeing right and and injective and Celestia like them kind of pumping so hard I think it's just also the result of the the Builder spirit in Cosmos and you know the the hard work that's been done throughout the past two years um paired with a lot of things narrative and you know VC relations and all these kind of things but it's it's

good I think Cosmos is coming out of this very very strong as an ecosystem yeah I was I was uh went I went back and listened to part of the episode we did last year um Ste uh Sam was there um and uh we we were talking about things so you we talked about obviously like privacy we're also I think at that point there was a lot of concern about regulation because FTX had just collapsed and you know Tera Etc um we were talking about the app chain thesis and the modular thesis and whether or not those were complimentary um IBC expanding into into ethereum and other ecosystems you know dydx had just announced that they were going to do their own app chain shared security was not live yet and sort of you know we're

still reeling from the drama of Adam 2.0 um and Adam was at 10 bucks uh which you know it's not that far away from where it is now uh but just to kind of give a perspective on you know what we were discussing last year I feel like 2023 like I'm I'm writing a post right now um that you we send out to to our investors and community and you know the the main thesis of of of this kind of like 2023 retrospective is that 2023 was a year of narrative validation like we we validated all of the narratives that we had been talking about from like 2022 and onwards and and those are you know replicated security going live um

getting a usdc stable coin in the ecosystem uh dydx launch and and sort of validating the app chain uh thesis and showing that app chains are actually useful for certain types of applications that require full control over the entire stack you know Celestia launching and perpetuating us into the the modular era um the defi ecosystem also uh becoming really mature and specifically I think the ux component in Defi and soort of like the ux that we get in Cosmos D5 that's you know so so incredibly amazing you know compared to some of the other ecosystems and you know I'm thinking for for instance of ethereum um and so the the the sort of

like competing with a sex level ux in in defi I think is like a narrative that that's been validated in 2023 as well um so yeah those are the things that that I've been thinking about what are the other sort of narratives that uh you guys think um we've uh we validated in 2023 or or there are any other sort of notable things that come to mind I think I could talk from the r perspective um and I think that you know those of us who were here in kind of full-time Cosmos at the end of the last bar market like Adam never broke out of its range against

BTC U and like although like we had some awesome like Cosmos pumps like Juno was cool and like uh osmosis and like so a lot of cool things happened it really felt like Cosmos never reached its like kind of full maturity you know and so I decided I'm going to spend the entire bare Market on Cosmos I think that will be the thing next year and I'm really surprised in the last two months to see the rotation from uh salana to Cosmos and how like Cosmos has become like the second biggest narrative I think in crypto culture uh and so like I think that's you know in big part to like Sito and going on like a lot of the huge like major shows and like putting all these

like new awesome projects out there um and from the development Community as well people seeing uh what is possible and what they can build in the app chain world and how good the ux is and how cheap the fees are and so I think we can just look forward like to an incredible 2024 uh from like a cultural narrative perspective and how many people are going to want to join the cosmos ecosystem and maybe like Sam you would be able to talk about uh like how many new users came into Kepler like the day that Celestia launched and all these different things um but it's it's been incredible yeah I mean I only have like a Vibes based understanding of how many new users but it was uh it was a a

massive wave like orders of magnitude um increase in in volume and like new new wallets um I had a couple couple other things um one this was like the year of bad kids uh like we actually yeah also out nft and and there was kind of like a I don't know bad kids did a lot of work kind of like carrying the ecosystem spiritually I think um and and it actually kind of broke out of Cosmos itself you know like a bunch of The Flash Bots people got Cosmos and like Lio folks got Cosmos or B kids NFS um so that was really

cool um I have interacted a whole bunch with like Ean researchers in the EF and like there this is this was a year where like there was some tacid acknowledgement that like ethereum was adopting the cosmos like architecture um so I I heard on numerous occasions like you know it the best ideas in ethereum like are just taken from Cosmos you know so that could be cast in like a pajora of light but at the same time like it does kind of substantiate Cosmos is like this

thought you know community of of thought leadership um and I also have like a couple call outs I think CTO you've done incredible job speaking to maybe a slightly more mainstream audience um I I'm super thankful for a bunch of the blockworks folks who just took like a a personal interest like that's the only way I can describe it they're just like they got kind of nerd sniped by Cosmos and then started covering it more and I think that that had like a a lot of knock on effects yeah your your episode with Ethan there

was was really great I listened to it recently um yeah so that just kind of helped to put Cosmos back in the narrative particularly in like a technical and investor Community um and yeah and then you already mentioned some of the the C Premiere launches that that I think were really key like I was particularly kind of behind the scenes with um with Celestia and and DX doing a lot of stuff with them so um that was really nice to see just very professional high profile launches you know both of which I would say went went quite well and there was a

lot of like the ecosystem is hanging on these these kind of working out so um they really took a village to to laun those protocols CTO Stephen do you guys have anything to add on this topic um yeah I mean you know you brought it up like um kind of addressing a wider audience and and thanks for for the kind words there um I mean first of I I was super nervous when I got in crypto banter like there were like 6,000 people like watching uh live so that that was that was um a big big audience um but yeah I think you know the thing when I

what I noticed is when I talk to like non-c Cosmos native people is they don't care too much about like the details about the the you know the depths of Cosmos and I think one challenge for for cosmonauts um mostly I you know what I see is that we we sometimes think get get too much carried away from from the technology and and I think that makes it so robust and resilient in the long term but I think short term crypto people just like flashy stuff right and I think you saw recently the the mem coin season um you know even in Cosmos now we have I don't know I lost count but we have a lot of meme coins and in Cosmos as well um but yeah I think you know we we need to like maybe for 2024 kind of Bridge a little bit more kind of the the the the

gap between the core technology and this excitement and and fundamentalism that we have from the developer Community um to kind of address also the retail audience right and I feel like now it's much much stronger than than last year when we talked I think last year we all still also had major PTSD from from the whole Tera uh stuff um but yeah I feel like you know we need more of this you know we we need to be more out there um we we need to do stuff like other ecosystems are doing like Solana for instance um Solana has a program called super team and I think that's something we can just literally apply for Cosmos right super team is basically a platform

where anybody can do kind of microtask whether it's like translating stuff into different languages whether it's hosting small meetups and in you know in your city or even ordering uh pizza with friends like they literally have a pizza fund with you can get 200 bucks and you can you know get 10 people together and talk about Solana like that's that's what they're having and I think that's a major success factor of Solana um which is obviously Foundation backed and and they obviously have hundreds of millions to to kind of fund these things but I think something like that like to to kind of realign a little bit um the community growth uh on a global scale I also think you know next year Cosmo should go on a on a bit of a tour a

global tour where we have physical events around the world I I think we're we're we're kind of on track right like sub you're you're doing stuff um with Nibbler Summit um you also do kind of like these smaller meetups um and I think this is severely uh underrated and undervalued um we need more of this we need to double down on this for next year um because other ecosystems are doing it um and if you know if if we're not doing it those are in the end of the just onboarding funnels for for investors retail Community users developers right and you really need to pick them up in their city in their town right at their University host workshops get get them you know educated about the basics so that they can come in um because that's also been a big learning

for me in the past three years kind of covering the ecosystem talking to all the developers like there's this strong core ecosystem of Builders and teams that have been around for a long time but for new Builders especially if they're not crypto native they have a very hard time getting into custos because there's just no one to talk to right there's not one organization that runs a show that uh helps people to get on boarded to navigate oh you you you're qualified for whatever XYZ um getting getting funding is is still kind of tough and and challenging and and complex and not as transparent and clear as in other ecosystems so I think that's that's maybe one thing

where Cosmos could really grow 10x faster next year if we had kind of this this more aligned approach to how do we onboard new developers and just a re you know grow the retail community so yeah yeah on that note I just saw vitalic just posted an article I guess yesterday which is make ethereum Cipher Punk again which basically argues that etherum should should go the other direction uh I guess um yeah I I think I I agree on the sentiment that you know um Cosmos needs to be less nerd snipy and more uh

attractive to you know regular users and like people that want to use dii people that want to use bad kids that want to like collect cool nfts Etc I I feel like we're getting there and I think one of the I think there's like a couple of things that um really help here one you know osmosis I think is doing a great job at uh building an incredible experience around Defi and they want to push that even further with their their whole like account abstraction um push that that Sunny announced that at cosmoverse I'm like super excited about being able to use that and I think that that will allow a lot of people to come into the space um and then integrating with all of the

great defi applications on um on osmosis you know whether that's Lavana or margin or I guess Mars isn't quite there anymore at some point will'll be on Neutron but but I wonder if the other ecosystems right like Neutron kajira and injective will also have this you very userfriendly kind of like um ux and experience focused uh approach so I think that that will be like a big factor in terms of like bringing uh new users in um and yeah stargaze bullish on stargaze as well from from this perspective um in terms of um attracting you know

people to uh utilize like some of the great nfts there and specifically like bad kids I think is we already mentioned this but um is a is a a great sort of like cultural meme um in the space um you know are there any like I I'd like to maybe talk a little bit about maybe get into nitty-gritty here a little bit cuz like La last year we we we didn't have the AZ yet and we certainly didn't have replicated security um those are now live now there's been a little bit of You Know Drama this year around the cosmos Hub um specifically the recent drama around you know prop 858 and and

all that ensued after that um and I mentioned earlier that like the Adam Price hasn't really budged a whole lot uh compared to some of the other coins in ecosystem that like recently have um really picked up um you what what I'd like to get a a sense of uh what is all of your perspective on um on the Hub and you know is it out of the water uh or out of the woods in terms of you know some of the um some of the fears that perhaps you know had we had in the ecosystem last year around Adam utility and like you know Hub uh utility long term um

yeah what are your thoughts here so I kind of want to talk about the the last thing the defi that leads into this so as someone who sort of comes from evm land and has a large community that that loves evm sort of protocols and even though some Sal stuff uh when I come over to to IBC it's to see like I expect to have similar uh similar experiences and you don't like IBC protocols operate in different ways so the sort of account abstraction thing we're talking about osmosis the Tech is phenomenal the user experience is is probably going to be suboptimal because people won't be familiar with it it won't be super easy one of the best things that that happened for IBC this year I think was squid router it made it so easy to come into osmosis and know what you were

doing before that like you had to use Axel and sometimes you'd have to like convert to an axel token first then go over and then convert back to something else and that wasn't super intuitive squid router has been phenomenal for my community at least because now they know okay I can go to from arbitrum to osmosis directly so easy uh as opposed to like take Adam from a centralized exchange bring it to your Kepler wallet deposit it convert it into something else like that was you know maybe two years ago with osmosis uh so I think osmosis has has this really really great potential to be effectively like just a real chain with a bunch of different protocols on it you already see you know quazar is built on top of it Lana is built on top of it hopefully Lana makes a comeback uh Mars is currently has a

Hub there II is coming so like we have this robust sort of chain now that people will will be familiar with people who operate unlike salana where all the apps exist arbitrum optimism whatever it is uh then you have other chains that just like are sort of like struggling to gain like relevance because they're either a single a single protocol chain and no one wants to go to a chain for one protocol uh or maybe there's like four or five protocols so this is also why I think farmer was talking about injective being interesting injective is no longer going to be just like a perex chain it's going to be this robust chain they're going to have what is it Dojo swap coming out and being like this real actual uh swapping mechanism one of the things that Drew people at least me as a

strategist to to IBC and this is sort of like touching on your most recent question was the Arbitrage opportunity that came from the liquid stake derivatives uh that exist in IBC so arbitraging St Adam arbitraging St osmo arbitraging you the Q assets right now have phenomenal Arbitrage opportunities though we don't know when unstaking is going to happen we'll see supposed to be by the end of this quarter they have three days to do it don't think it's going to happen but hopefully q1 right so there everything always gets pushed back and down the road and down the road and in IBC world that's just like that's just defi so Arbitrage ability has been affected by like the havening because now there is this before let's just say SD adom was dep pegged by uh 2% right

and you can you can Arbitrage that which means buy it a 2% dpeg and then unstake and it takes 24 to it's taking 30 days right now because uh whatever so you you can over chariz that over a month that's 2 * 12 that's 24% APR that wasn't super competitive against 20% APR but now the Arbitrage opportunity is super competitive against the base staking rate which means these assets these lsts should be should start to see better pegs better parody uh if people are really smart at least people should be arbitraging instead of holding because now the opportunity is twice as good so I do think like there's some some Tailwinds there we should have better Peg maintenance which means less uh less H spous liquidations on platforms like

Umi and Mars where people are depositing their lsts and trying to leverage that up because it's a totally reasonable thing to do it's very very popular strategy on salana very popular strategy in evm land which is take your LST collateralize it dep borrow the um the like primitive for it so deposit SD atom borrow atom convert deposit and loop that to get a leveraged staking yield you can't really do that in IBC because the peg is just not reliable and so hopefully this uh new incentives for Arbitrage and you know the I think the Hub is going to be depositing like $900,000 into SD Adam liquidity soon or like $9 million of SD Adam liquidity soon hopefully that will also help with the peg maintenance but uh so yeah I do

think the happing has been good for Peg maintenance I guess is like my my short answer there which should be good for other protocols and composability of these assets um yeah there's a couple things I want to comment on there one is um I mean something that I worked on for like a year plus was the liquid staking module and um I haven't I've actually been a little bit surprised it hasn't taken off more than it you don't actually see as much liquid stake assets as as I would have anticipated um I think this year we should you need to kind of like

create some kind of D5 feedback loop in order to to actually like draw out liquid Stak assets I would expect that to to happen more this year I would hope that it would happen more this year um the a big thing that I worked on this year was um wallet support like metam Mass support um I worked with basically all the the main Cosmos wallets to to to plug in the skip API which um is basically like also covers etherium onboarding Bitcoin onboarding um and like the Kepler swap the leap

swap the metam mass swap is like skip in background um that is going to get like 10x better this year hopefully I mean the reliability of IBC the speed at which you can onboard ethereum Bitcoin um I've also done a whole bunch of work on account abstraction and like chain abstraction stuff that is kind of in the pipeline in the SDK so the type of account abstraction that you're talking about in osmosis like should be available to every single chain um uh by the end of next year

I um they're we're kind of on on a path so that like if you have the if you have assets somewhere you'll be able to pay somewhere else and you'll be able to just kind of instantly on board deposit funds into an app you don't have to like you don't actually have to use something like squid or whatever like you you just you just start using an application draw Assets in um so you just go to osmosis or you go to Mars or you go to whatever and then like you have assets somewhere they're in your wallet that you just start you just start playing with it in the application so that's kind of the experience that um that I Envision I think we have a very

clear path towards um but it's going to be the better part of the year to to roll that out and uh yeah I mean that that that that's great I mean I I'm I'm I'm all for and I I'm really looking forward to having better ux around just being able to you know use tokens in a way that you know where you can use any sort of token in any sort of application and you know the the sort of swaps happen in the background and and users are not you know sort of confused about what tokens to use in one application um I I am curious to get your thoughts though on on on the whole like uh a uh Cosmos Hub uh well I guess like state of La in

Cosmos Hub like where where do you feel um things are heading there and you know that does does the Hub continue to remain relevant from here or yeah um I I have no special Authority here so um but I I think the how Adam wins is actually extremely clear um you basically pick the core elements of atom 2 and just run with it um the main thing is that adom doesn't need utility it is just a meme coin but it's a meme coin

that is able to uh kind of judiciously deploy Capital into different different like defi communities so that you induce demand um so that you have that same phenomenon stepen was talking about like you need Adam to be the the base asset for the defi ecosystem it's all that you need to do um and then just how do we get there I mean this is this is a question for everyone I mean you know I had sunny on recently and uh he he has this he's he's I guess a strong proponent of this idea that you know Adam is a meme coin and I think we all sort of agree here that

like Adam uh is is is the meme coin of the of the uh of the cosmos ecosystem and the meme that the the meme that it's carrying is this idea of like strong governance and very decentralized governance and like Sunny was on the podcast and saying okay well what we need to do is we need to like we need to run with this to the extent that like eth ran with eth's money and like the adom um governance backed money meme is something the entire ecosystem needs to get behind and sort of like Shield the entire world so that Adam can become a really strong Capital asset uh as collateral in all of defi um and and and and furthermore like differentiate

itself from other uh other sort of like ecosystem uh platforms right like really be a really play into that governance back money aspect in order to properly differentiate itself from ethereum and and other things cuz right now I mean replicated security like all these sort of features are sort of like replicating what other ecosystems and say things like um like air Etc are doing so like as an ecosystem how do we really push this narrative forward and and and and and make it so strong that like Adam pops off as we all would love it to Adam Wars concept that

zachi um put out is approximately correct um basically you just def5 protocols want adom liquidity I talk to projects all all day and they actually want to import atom into their platform they they just don't have a mechanism to do it um so you need to create that Marketplace um you know if it were me I would um I would mint a ton of adom and put it into the community pool that you can be used to deploy but that was highly unpopular the what is governance what is

the superpower of governance like of a governed money is that you can do deficit spending like you can actually instrumentalize your monetary policy to to take risk um and that's something that seems to be incomprehensible to most adom holders to be honest uh I think I can talk to this from like a a retail perspective and I actually don't so I know like at cosmoverse Seb you and I talked and you came away like super bullish on AE and then uh I kind of came away kind of bearish on a um but

then I think within the last 30 days you've seen the neutron narrative like kick in and actually become something and so like to go back to what Steph was was talking about earlier you have all these like l1s out there that don't have any traction because there's nothing built on top of them there's nothing you can do with it there's nothing like exciting to play with or uh there's nothing there's no like exciting air drops to farm or whatever it is so I think I think Adam's big narrative should be uh Neutron and then Noble usdc who's already brought like $65 million into the ecosystem in the last 30 days huge and then stride who is uh also just been like absolutely killing it so I I

hate to disagree with sunny because he's someone who I uh respect a lot and think uh is much smarter than I am but I think that from a retail perspective The Narrative should be like look at all these incredible things that are being built in the atom economic zone look who's backing Neutron look at the success of circle backing Noble uh and also the success that strides done already and so I think the narrative is what are the exciting things being built in the a that people can actually touch and play with uh in 2024 I I I I think I I agree with that I think the AZ is still going to be a big U narrative and a big part I think

lending the noble kind of migration and like pushing that over the finish line is going to be very important for atam to to succeed but like I say also I think Neutron is super strong stride is extremely strong and that also means both their teams are lying with atom right and it's also in their interest that atam succeeds and is secure which also means it has a higher market cap right also think to to Sam's Point with the with the mint I think you know atam treasury got a generous ntrn out drop which is I think worth currently around four million atom so around 45 million US dollars or something crazy like that so I think that that that was nice um I also think yeah there's a lot of um proposals that passed with with the Pake

team and also the osmosis um kind of liquidity that that was uh given out for for defi so fering atom's rle as interchain capital I think what you guys are building a time with and um you know maybe you can share some some Alpha there uh happy to learn um I think that's going to also be a key element for atom but I think so that's I think like on the fundamental side in the AZ I think another side is kind of the the whole toomics stuff right and I think when the proposal passed um 848 I think it was um The atum haling Proposal you literally saw like on the minute when it passed there was like a five six% or 10% pump

in atum right and you don't usually see that but it means like you know it it kind of did something I mean some people also exited they didn't like that but also it kind of brought in a new kind of wave of people um and I think there there's probably going to be more proposals um maybe like removing the floor I think is the next one and um making the the inflation uh change rate uh making that faster so the the inflation can can adjust faster um and then also effort capitals proposals he's been working on I think those are coming up next we res saw the atom alignment treasury proposal coming up um and um much more that would generate revenue

for atum I think that's also going to be a big driver but those are like pumpamentals right those are like we need to get inflation down we need to increase onchain revenue and I think that's also what retail people like right like we want to get get away from from inflationary incentives um and and more towards this real yield um acral and I think in a bare Market you haven't really seen anything you know neutr stride they kind of launched in a bare Market um so that was not I think we haven't really started yet I think it's just starting now and yeah we're going to see also how these economic models are are being refined um I also think this is a dynamic and moving process right if you look at for example padot they had their their P chain slot

auction model which they're now abandoning and turning into this coretime sales model um also their Canary Network thesis I think you know ear we talked about how how the bare Market has proven Cosmos the the app chain thesis and everything and I think for other ecosystems they have more fundamental issues to kind of overwork and kind of re you know re rebuilds their their kind of whole assumptions that they're built on and I think in Cosmos you have the opposite it's more about figuring out economics um but I think atam specifically is in a position where it's this leaderless token um but it still has survived um the bare Market if you think back 20189 in that bare Market you had all the promising l1s

like EOS NM Neo right and in the bare Market it's just faded away right they're kind of irrelevant right now like they're on page two on coin gecko atam is still the top 30 coin I think that's that's not bad um so I think yeah atum is still going to be around it like Sunny is saying I think this this governance money I think we just need a better like word for it I think governance is not as kind of attractive as a word you know so we need something more flashy you know we need something that that sticks more like ultrasound money on on ethereum we need something like that we just need to come up with something so that's all I mean if we can come up with something I'll I'll I'll pump that narrative all the way to the bank with

you man you know we just need to we need to do what the bankless guys did you know just like pump that narrative until until uh until Adam pumps with it this makes me think of like the the mid curve meme you know you have like left curve right curve and mid curve uh the left curve meme which is like you know me for the most part when I'm looking at just narratives like what is what is co what is Adam okay Adam is the cosmos token uh Cosmos Tia did really good osmosis is big tvl is growing okay that's why Adam goes up right it's it's as simple as that I just look I say Adam is Cosmos is Cosmos doing good or is Cosmos doing bad Cosmos is doing good oh cool I want to buy Adam because Adam is Cosmos like it's very very left curve but I imagine

most of retail like that's their thinking they're not thinking well what and if they are they're probably like mid curving it because like the right curve is like looking at governance following proposals really understanding the tokenomics where is the money moving to what's the next best tech and like that's such a small portion of people really at that on the right curve you're probably having personal conversations with institutional investors and things like that so I think left curve is just like Adam is Cosmos how is Cosmos doing and like may people think that Cosmos is doing good injective big new chain coming apps airdrop farming miles doucher I hopefully I'm saying his last name right he's actually a really great guy he's been really helpful to me when I lost my Twitter account but miles did a great post on like the injective air drop the TA air drop the we have uh

recently we had um tyi I love tyi ma he's a a big fan of him great guy you talk C you talk to him yeah uh you talked to him recently so tyy is like he's coming into IBC why is he coming into IBC what has interested this guy who's always been an evm farmer to come into IBC when he like thought IBC was effectively dead it's airdrop farming it's Celestia it's this whole Narrative of like well okay IBC is the airdrop uh is the airdrop ecosystem it's where you go and you stake and like good things happen right so like that's a very very B hey Ty you're here uh it's a very very basic narrative that's attractive um so like I think we need these basic attractive easy to digest narratives

that we can just like pump out and and that'll be what attracts retail if you want to attract like larger more nuanced institutional investors go far right curve get a little bit fancier talk about government proposals talk about this government's backed money uh and then you know I think I I think that's the way to go that's just my is the air drop the air drop money of Cosmos that's what it isir drop back money real air drops but I mean I also think like it kind of is right and like until now I mean all these communities that that's always also been the the kind of the role of atam right is bootstrapping new communities and new token holder bases right osmo Juno Stars

more recently Tia now we you know for staking Tia we get more air drops I think the dimension air drop is also going to go for atom stakers and for Tia stakers so it's like this never stops and at you know Cosmos as this app chain ecosystem there's always going to be new chains always going to be new tokens and who do who who do you give it to them if who do you give your new token to um if if you want to capture the the broader General customers audience right because I think you also see like most of these these app chains out there they're like starting to have their own flavors their own Community Vibe um but atom is kind of this neutral maybe not like fully credibly neutral but I think a

sufficiently neutral chain in Cosmos that's kind of there to provide services to other chains and Cosmos and not to to um to dominate one specific Niche or a category so yeah I think that adro narrative is still is still big in 2024 I mean if if you're bullish on the airdrop narrative I I'm not but if you are like the community needs to do some work to convince people who are going to be performing air drops that they should be air dropping to liquid Stak atom holders because that is not the norm right now

and basically Cosmos def5 and receiving air drop or in competition with one another so we're not kind of at the correct Market structure right now to to achieve both but you know stride uh is working on this I had a call with them earlier this week and they were saying like they're really pushing to get like that first big airdrop air dropped to like St Adam or sto holders because once they have foot in the door once they have like precedent that tells other airdrop holders hey this is the way to do it and for a good reason so I want to see like the very first very successful St atom defi airdrop uh happen and then I think like we'll start seeing this pickup

momentum this will this will Breathe new life into LST defi which is a large large portion of defi um especially in like IBC land where everything has a liquid stake derivative so uh you know fingers crossed on that you know we have milk Tia I would love to see milk Tia in some way benefit from airdrops because tea is like this this giant of of airdrop assumptions same thing with stdyx coming out so yeah Sam I couldn't agree more I think ntrn was given to St ATM holders right Neutron they did a they didn't add what happens is they will give it to um they'll do like a proportional thing based on the amount

of capital state um and if they do that and actually deliver it to uh to one of the liquid sticking addresses then you know stride can like redistribute it but oftentimes uh basically St atom holders will get the the short stick because um they have like a single address so it really depends on how the air draft is constructed and and so yeah it needs to be more socialization of like how to actually incentivize liquid stti asset holders who are who are really like the more active Community um if you want

users these are these are kind of with the Leading Edge here yeah this is a a huge issue the question that J ald asked which is how do you determine who should get an airdrop for for having an LST you can't just like air drop to random LST holders because at any point in time people could try to gain that system uh so my assumption is you'd want to have it like other defi ecosystems where there's like either a DEA facto or explicit point system where you're measuring some sort of user interactions with the chain user interactions with the the token user interactions with defi protocols to see okay this person has shown like uh either like good faith actions with the token they've been lping it for for a month they've been like collateralizing on Mars or II they've been doing things

with it for x amount of time or an x amount of ways or for with x amount of volume uh they should qualify for this airdrop it really can't just be they have the token at this specific snapshot let's throw them a bunch of money because that can be kind of dangerous and gamed and not really sort of the spirit of what we're looking for with people participating in in like the security of the blockchains and government yeah I think we need better tools to do this too right I mean I think one of the things that I've I've seen people trying to trying to build and you know with varying degrees of success is is a a sort of CRM type system for blockchain addresses right where you can look at you can look at you know addresses on a chain you can see see which users have been performing

like such and such actions whether that's per participating in governance uh participating in defi uh and then you know have sort of metrics to uh allocate airdrops and I think like if we were if we had better tools to do that it would make it easier for um for new protocols to like issue air drops based on the criteria and the the kind of like types of user actions that they want to reward um by by by doing the airdrop um so what um what opportunities are are are big things um well I guess maybe maybe this

is something we haven't talked about yeah but like where are the biggest gaps and areas of the ecosystem that we need to improve like where where did the cosmos ecosystem sort of fall short uh like last year and uh were you hoping that um that they improve that that we improve over the next over the next 12 months oh am I'm mute um yeah I can go first I think we talked earlier a bit about uh ux I think that's one thing where Customs can still do a lot better I think people that don't know what IBC

is they get completely lost with like like going back and forth from different chains and like it's just too hard for like people that are not used to it um I think also recently we saw with with this whole bad kids uh theme going going viral and people in Solana now also trying out Kepler for the first time and trying to get their bed kits nft I think yeah this has shown that like there's still a lot of upside and it's for us cosmonauts I think it's easy because we're used to it for a long time but yeah stuff like IBC fun and squid uh I think that's that's definitely very very helpful um to just not um shock people when they interact for the first time

with with Cosmos so I think that's that's the first one you ask and there's a lot of upset still like I said earlier I think you know for me obviously I'm very on the community side and and content and and I believe a lot in like physical events I think you know we we've been traveling for the past couple years obviously with cosmoverse but also around the world and I've always been traveling my life but I think now since I'm you know doing customers and everything um more so than ever I I try to see like you know what what crypto projects are mostly known in the city that I'm in right now right and like we're for example in hoim city in Vietnam and people don't know about Cosmos we were in Thailand we were in um in Indonesia like South southeast Asia

as a whole region um that's a massive opportunity but there's barely any initiative for for onboarding developers talent right and every place is just different right there's different cultures different languages different levels of how how involved are they how much have they engaged with crypto uh what's kind of their level where they're at right there's crypto hubs and there's also crypto Green Fields um Argentina one of the biggest most important crypto markets right now um padot is really big there Cosmos not yet right there there's a couple cosmonauts but we need to like push hard on that um in the US I think there's a couple of good hubs um I think in New York there's a couple teams and people and and they

meet up frequently but I think for 2024 is also kind of my mission um both in the virtual world like with content you know trying to Branch out do more collaborations and content with with other more generic kind of content creators but also just in a physical world really like catering it to to a local audience I think that's a big puzzle on how we can how we can grow Cosmos next year yeah you're doing a fantastic job there I mean I think like you know cosmoverse as a conference attracts admittedly like more of the more of the developer and sort of Insider crowd although there are a lot you know I met I met like lots of people at cosmoverse that were maybe not so technical or not so much in the weeds

um and but but yeah meetups I think meetups is like highly underrated and and also is a lot of work right like it's it's a lot of work to put on an event but like to put on meetups and here's the thing like if if you talk if you look at say Celestia or or some other ecosystems like I mean Celestia they're they're really encouraging you members of the community to uh host meetups like we just had a Celestia Meetup here in Paris some of it was kind of you know funded or you know they Celestia helped out with a bit of the a bit of the expenses for that but uh and I think they sent some swag or whatever but really it's it's the the community that's putting on these meetups and organically putting on the meetups Cosmos doesn't have that doesn't have

you know the the ICF or may like uh AA da at least as far as I know uh funding or helping folks in a systemic way right in a sort of like structured way uh I know that they give out grants and stuff and stuff like that but like in a more um yeah in a more systemic way to organize organize meetups and I think if if we had that you know people would be encouraged and feel empowered to organize meetups everywhere we wouldn't have to have like Sito organizing all of them you know he's you got you got content to produce too we're gonna fix this this year we have a yeah I mean I mean definitely

this is something you could do right I mean you you you could uh also sort of help and Empower people to to organize meetups with with the reach that you have yeah no I think for us yeah Sam sorry Ju Just very quickly Cosmos doesn't have like a front door which I think is a B big issue you don't know where to go you don't know where to start um and I don't know just I think some some focal point um that's just like literally here's how to bridge from like ethereum or salana or Bitcoin or whatever just like here's how you get in

here's like the main apps not all of them just like a couple to get you started um You Know download a wallet uh they're just the absolute Basics um there's like no place to to access this information um you you have to like search board individually or like just know something already in order to kind of the bootstrap into the into the system yeah I'm gonna make a video like this week or next week uh unless TI is already gonna do it or cido where's lamb this was just his thing back in the day uh but yeah like this should be easy an intro to to IBC an intro to Cosmos like how to onboard into de kaplar how to

open up an LP in osmosis how to put a position in a money market and then how to how to stake some things to participate in error drops like I think like those basic things uh should should be enough for most people to to start getting active and understand you know what you're doing maybe like how to do some some IBC movement between chains as well that's a great idea I mean if you guys do one I'll do one as well that way we have we we cover more more SEO traffic yeah that's right yeah self referal and for other parts should go check out uh yeah yeah if you want to know how to you know send your tokens over to Lana watch this video no that I mean I think I think this is these are all great points uh

far farmer you've been quiet for there for a while do you have anything to uh I mean I think everything you all said was spoton um and I on board a lot of friends who been trading crypto for a long time who are like not uh chain native to like start staking and start uh understanding defi um and everybody's nervous Everybody's scared everyone thinks they're gonna lose their funds so like the message that I would like to see come out is it's Cosmos transactions are free you can put $25 on chain and I can show you how to like stake 30 protocols and enter 25 D5 positions you know it's like it doesn't take it's not like EV or avac where like everything you do you

know you mess up and it's a $200 transaction it's like everything in Cosmos is free download a wallet fund it with 50 bucks and just start clicking buttons and it's like you you've got nothing to lose you can learn everything you need to learn and then you know go back and watch all the old uh Sito videos and Liam videos and you know there's and as well as your subs it's like there's there's tutorials everywhere there's tons to learn and tons to do and um I know like uh 42 is supposed to be coming out this week supposed to be sort of this like yeah dashboard for uh all of Cosmos so like maybe that'll take off that Sam is talking about um but even if it's not someone else is gonna

so that's that's my perspective I think the message should be it's free to use like go and try it you know yeah Sam like maybe I maybe you you have some insight here but um you know when you were saying that like Cosmos doesn't have a front door I think this this also touches on on CTO point from earlier around like salana and how Community uh awareness and business development is sort of you know centralized in like in an entity and I think like avox Avalanche is like another good good example here and this is something we've talked about here on the podcast as well right it's like there is no front door for Cosmos there is no one entity that you know does

outward facing Business Development um helps uh sort of Shepherd people around the ecosystem and makes introductions and like when uh when the ICF went through and I guess is still going some some internal uh restructuring um you know I had Brian uh on the podcast and we talked about like the role that the ICF could play here and I think that you know the ambition there and the idea was was for the ICF to play a little bit of more of an active role here so far I don't think that's been the case or at least I think they're still sort of trying to figure that out do do you think that you know you spent a lot of time there do you

think that the ICF is well positioned to play this role or you know should it be another entity or like other or should it be more decentralized by having like different entry points that you know maybe handle business development or grant funding or you know other other aspect effects that people might be interested in yeah I I don't have super high hopes for the ICF being like a Communications leader um I think it's going to continue to like fund some of the core development and little else to be honest um the just the way that the cosmos

ecosystem is structured the just looks a lot different um and we should kind of use that we should play to our strengths like the the fact that there's no front door means that somebody can make a front door um and that that can be an incredibly valuable property um there's money to be made there you can speak to a specific audience like um I think project like 42 could speak to a very speciated defi audience that wants to get involved and have kind of an aggregation over a lot different UMO you know you speak to a very different audience that's like uh that is maybe more kind of organic retail

that you know in uh in Southeast Asia or Argentina like like these are like uh captive markets that like don't don't have a a point of entry and so people can build that um but there's there's a lot that can be done there um yeah I I also think that the um there can potentially be many front doors because like there isn't a singular singular source of Truth um so that that could be a kind of multiplier

effect if it's actually like Leverage properly I also don't think that the IC F necessarily needs to be like a become like a Communications leader I think they they just need to like allocate funding a bit more wisely I guess and and more transparent but I think also they they're working on it and I think Brian is is doing the best he can um so yeah let's see I don't know I don't think we should bet everything on the ICF fixing everything um but I think they can definitely help a lot because they have $300 million um but yeah I think um you know building front doors I think think is great because once you're in Cosmos I think this is very unique to Cosmos I think you're there's a very

warm welcome right and there are so many people that are willing to help I remember when I got into Cosmos um Jack zeolin actually kind of you know went on a call with me and I had no followers back then um maybe two or three thousand so he kind of took the time and just walk me through and explained me what is IBC that was before IBC went live and I felt like this is crazy like if I made a tweet about I don't know cardano or polka do I don't think a core engineer would reach out to me and you know offer to kind of walk me through and so I think what we really just need to build is this front door just leave it open and people will come in um and then there's going to be a lot of people that

will help right uh there's going to be a lot more content creators right like Seb yourself and Stephen and what I do and what many others are doing and I hope we we we'll have a lot more conent creators in the next bll run because that really really helps um yeah I also see Stephen is onboarding right now someone in the in the in the chat um but you can see it right like people are asking for tutorials like Hands-On stuff because maybe they heard something about Cosmos on Twitter or on YouTube but now what like how do you get started right and I think both for that counts both for retail community members and and investors or users as well as for developers and actual Builders right they they also need to be to be guided and and directed

to to talk to the right people um and I think that's really the missing piece because once you're in I don't think there's a way out absolutely yeah I think one of the things that I see coming is well that that Cosmos becomes um the the the cosmos narrative right the cosmos um H how do I put this yeah I I think that I think that the cosmos stack will continue to uh spread in all of all of the ecosystem right whe like whether that's Celestia or like enan Lair I'm very much looking forward to having like a cosmos

SDK um backed by reaking you know IBC all these Technologies are going to continue to be super relevant and Sam like this is something you guys talked about on the blockworks episode but I think like Cosmos the brand that you don't need to associate to Cosmos the brand right and and one analogy I often use is Linux you know Linux is a really powerful brand lots of operating systems Linux distributions um have chosen to kind of you know be align with that brand but a lot of operating systems also use the Linux stack are absolutely not aligned with that brand like apple uh Android you know uh most of the software

and like TVs and embedded devices that use Linux don't align with that brand necessarily and I think with Cosmos we're going to start seeing that also play out where the cosmos brand will be mostly aligned with like the cosmos Hub the atom economic zone and chains and applications that drive value to atom or highly associate to atom and then other applications are are going to be using Cosmos stack uh Cosmos technology the cosmos stack IBC Cosmos SDK cosm Etc but not necessarily with the brand and that's okay you know and we still like that's still a win for this technology and it's still a win for users of defi that get to use Tech that really works that's easy to use that uh is fast uh

that's cheap right with like load transaction fees Etc so that that's something that that I see coming and that you know with regards to the The interchain Narrative I think is is something we should all keep in mind yeah I think uh this is something that uh Jack samplin talked talks about all the time is that you know the endgame for Cosmos and IBC is that um everything is abstracted away and you're using like a beautiful Web Two Front End and you have no idea that crypto is even happening in the background uh and that's how mainstream adoption happens um so that that's my perspective as well I think like um Cosmos and the way it's designed and the way the whole stack is designed is more set up for that than

any other ecosystem is the the interoperability uh the speed of transactions the finality time uh these are things that can be abstracted away in the background and then you're just left with like a nice web to experience and have no idea you're even using crypto I think we can all stand behind that idea um so yeah before we wrap up here any uh any final thoughts yall want to share uh before we uh close it up for this year yeah I think yeah Cosmos has survived the bare Market I think we can capture that I think we're actually coming out

very very strong of the spare Market uh for those that have been at events this year or even at at cosmoverse um we had the the highest attendance this year uh I think it was a bit of a different vibe it was I think more like Builders driven and you know a lot of workshops a lot of sessions and meetings um we we also got Sun bullish on atom again so that's that's also a big win I think overall like yeah Cosmos is coming out strong I think next year is going to be a lot of big narratives around Cosmos around IBC branching out into Sana into ethereum I think you know Celestia is going to have its its season also with air drops um there's going to be a lot of exciting

projects launching Eclipse movement um Dimension a lot more than that but um those those are big ones um then yeah I think you know there there's also big launches I think Saga is going to be one that that can also maybe capture some of the gaming kind of narrative because that's totally under under surf right now in Cosmos um also very bullish on what passage is building I think that fits into what farmer just said is like P are building these these Virtual Worlds and people don't really actually know they're interacting with anything Cosmos crypto blockchain right it's just like something that people can use that's fun right also the strange clown game and those kind of things um I think

babon is going to be very interesting as well kind of this this Bitcoin staking and and leveraging Bitcoin security to to secure other chains as well um and bar chain I think is also going to be a big big driver to to drive more awareness and drag more developers into Cosmos so I think those are the three big launches I'm looking forward to I think there's going to be a big airdrop season next year as well I think Sam is bearish on air drops I'm very bullish on air drops um but I think it's going to be very very like we had a big airdrop season I think in the last cycle like 2021 but I think there was just a teaser that was just test Nets I think next year air drops we're going to go on Main net there's going to be a lot of Big Air

drops um so I think that's also going to you know be a big Catalyst um and yeah um I think you know a lot of OG Cosmos chains also going to come back like a cash Network that's not necessarily like a finance use case but yeah Stargates nfts I mean the whole ecosystem like there's so much traction right now and I think it's all boiling up for a promising 2024 which all of course depends on macro and you know how is Bitcoin performing is the ETF going to go through or are they rugging us last minute who knows um there's a lot of stuff that we can't predict but overall I'm I'm I'm bullish I'm always bullish you know that so that's my final

words long term it's usually better to be bullish than than bearish almost under every time frame uh should we answer John's question I think it's kind of a good one he says name an IBC chain that you think has the most upside potential where it sits today see would that be like bear chain for you where do you think I mean it doesn't it doesn't even sit today I guess so it's uh I think it would be it should be one that's currently live so I don't know I mean I would say like one that's life I think that's severely under undervalued and once Cosmos Pops in front of everyone's eyeballs I think people are going to look for okay what's the what's the open seee in Cosmos what's the big nft Marketplace so I think I think stargas is severely under undervalued

right now um obviously not not giving Financial advice so don't don't want people to a in but I think starus is really a project like a prime Cosmos example strong team core cosmonauts been around for many years survived the bare Market strong culture strong Community bad kids nfts they're just killing it left and right so I think staras would be would be one um but but there's stargaze like the Hub should should just buy stargaze and stargaze should become part of like a I think I think that would be a huge win for stargaze you know Farm what you think I you like narrative uh narrative type thinker uh I think uh as far as like undervalued unknown I like uh omn Flix

and passage I think would be like my Sleepers for um I think like most of the retail investing and most the people I interact with on Twitter are either in Europe or uh the US and I don't think people are understanding uh how many people are devouring content in South Asia and so I think like as omnii moves into those markets uh it could just onboard millions and millions of users and billions of users uh so I'm I'm pretty stoked on those very bull do you think I mean I'm pretty much the worst at

predicting these things but like there's a huge opportunity for Adam like it is not it is not really recovered fully um major investors I think have been kind of exiting for quite a while now and that's like pretty much dissipated so uh is if Adam can kind of get a together there's like a massive opportunity there um agreed so much stuff that I'm excited for though um I'm working with a bunch of projects that are that are not out yet um that I think are just yeah really like big unlocks for DEA system babon I think is is going to

be really interesting to kind of like access the Bitcoin the system in in a new way um I'm very excited for privacy projects penumbra and nada um just highly ideologically aligned with what they're building um yeah kind of where my heads up uh I'm gonna say I'm gonna say Wawa I think Wawa's going to pump and it's going to become huge bigger than Bon bigger than Dogecoin like when Cosmos starts flying like as an ecosystem and whether that's

atom or Tia or say or whatever that are like just doing crazy crazy run-ups people are going to ask okay what's the what's the mcoin in Cosmos like you need to a in right like boned it for for Solana so I think yeah Hua is also an interesting one I also think what's important is is to always remember like the crypto tide always Rises with every cycle right and I think last last cycle that it peaked out at like three trillion or something total market cap yeah I think next cycle Peak we could reach 10 to 12 trillion maybe or even more than that um so the the valuations always get more like higher and higher right and and more absurd that you can imagine right now so I think there's a lot of opportunities right now I think

now is a great time to position um yourself for for the next Bull Run obviously you know know what you're buying do your research don't blindly ape into stuff you don't know what it does what it is um but yeah I think now now it's it's kind of this pre bull run you know we're still coming out of the woods I think if you look at the prices I mean even Solana is still down like 60 70% from the all-time highs right so it's still far away from all-time highs um besides injective they just do their own thing but the rest is um it's still very very very far away and once we start Crossing that line into price Discovery then it's like the real Bull Run that starts I think we haven't seen anything yet

so we ain't seen nothing yet I don't if you guys know that song all right well we're gonna we're going to wrap this up uh thanks so much for coming on guys it's been uh really fun I think we've got lots of different perspectives here uh that our audience will appreciate and hopefully get everybody bullish uh for 2024 I forgot what year I was in for a second there uh yeah for 2024 get everybody really really bullish on uh on the in chain Stephen you're muted sorry I was gonna say no one no one talked about Somalia or quazar at least Gotta Throw like some some uh some credit to the two biggest Vault chains uh in IBC absolutely yeah

great products um also I think huge catalysts for bringing people into crypto and and uh understanding lping or at least like being able to leverage lping uh in a much more streamlined and and user friendly way sh out to to those two teams uh great guys thanks so much have a great New Year's uh stay safe and we'll see you next year thanks everyone cheers thank you sir