Can Prediction Markets 100x From Here? With Farokh and Carlos Domingo

Transcript

this these creator tokens just have an expiration date. So in that sense they're not much better than like meme coins, right? And by the way, if I'm going to trade creator tokens, I rather just own pump. >> I think they're very interesting. Kind of like a take the social temperature of what people think, right? And sometimes those things tend to be a lot more accurate. >> What do you think is the value proposition? Do you think these things rip day one you get a bunch of creator fees and then volume dwindles out over time or >> that's the institutions talking dirty to us crypto natives right there. I swear. >> Welcome back to the rule. This is your home to learn from the biggest guests, the brightest minds at the tip of innovation.

>> Our goal is to help spread the collective knowledge of everyone in our community. >> We are breaking crypto out of its echo chamber and taking it to the real world. >> All right, let's get Faroke up. He's in the back. I think he's ready. He's on now. >> It is the literal midst of the prediction markets mania right now. You are positioned over a year ago. You saw this coming, man. Welcome to the show. >> What's up, guys? It's an honor uh to be here. >> Yeah, it's great to have you, man. It's a big day for us because age is good, man. >> Yeah, I hear you. And we might have Carlos join you for a bit, so might get institutional real quick, but we're just going to get started. Uh he's got a hard stop. We got a little complicated there.

We're trying to make this as fun as possible. But man, we are in the midst of the prediction markets meta. You guys are obviously building myriad. I've got you as far on prediction markets times media. Give us your prediction markets times media thesis. Why is this such a powerful combination and how do you feel that this is going to shape the future of content media in general? >> Yeah, I mean you know and appreciate you having me to to talk about this. You know for us we we made the pivot really the pivot we decided to get into production markets in March 2024. So about 18 months ago from ideation to like execution then we launched September 9th last year in beta to like 2,000 users like small group and then fully launched USDC markets uh earlier this year. Uh but for me it just made

perfect sense, right? You you you run a large media company. I mean at this stage we own rug radio and the cryp media, right? The cryp media being the second largest new site in in the industry after coindes or arguably one of the largest media players in in in the game. And as you both know, media companies are extremely hard to monetize, right? It's very hard to make money as a media company. You're either bleeding cash or you just barely uh break even until you sell to a billionaire, right? I think that's why uh I think that's why you know time was acquired by Benoff and then Bezos buys WSJ, Elon Musk buys uh Twitter. So there's always that but the thing is that's not enough. And so Lock and I my co-founder and CEO were thinking like yo like how are we going to monetize this

media company? How do you build a unicorn? How did you build a billion dollar company? And then someone throws this at us in Hong Kong during a meeting last year like yo you guys should do prediction markets and that was before the poly market boom that really happened during the summer right the whole election thing. And uh and as soon as that happened, we were like, "Okay, [ __ ] it." Sorry, pardon my French. Like, let's go. Let's build this. Let's build a prediction market platform. Makes perfect sense because we own Rug Radio, which is like the voice of the people, right? It's like a a cryptonative podcast platform that made its way to the White House, right? Led by myself. Then you own the Cryp Media, which is like journalism, right? It's just news, pure news. But then you have prediction markets, which we all know uh the value

of them, which is really where people can put their money where their mouth is, and you can get different types of news. And it makes perfect sense. um for the for the media flywheel to enter that and then to become more of a tech company uh powered by media. >> Yep. Absolutely. Um I mean it's just a perfect combination like well at a certain point we're pushing the frontier. I like to think about prediction markets almost as these like alternative realities that can take place. We just don't know which one of them is going to take place yet. And it kind of puts your mind in this quantum reality where it's all probabilistic. We have a probability of going into this, probability of going into that, and it's all dependent on the outcome. And at a certain point, truth, like literally what media is built on, which is truth.

And and what we perceive is all built around this probabilistic nature of the things around us and the outcomes of those things happening. So prediction, markets, and media just make such a perfect blend when we're thinking about how we're putting together this this world that we live in. So it it makes total sense. And I think now you're starting to see some of the prediction market platforms become more news. And they've started at prediction markets angle. They're going into more media. You start in the media angle and now going prediction markets. Ultimately, I imagine you'll meet at the frontier, the edge of these two markets.

>> Well, that's exactly what it is. I think Shane Copelan um for for for a moment after the election, right, the biggest winner, the second biggest winner of the after Donald Trump of that election was was Paul market and Shane Copeland, right? and uh he he likes to say that uh prediction markets are the source of news. I agree and disagree in that prone, right? I agree in the sense that yes, prediction markets won that election and showed that they are a source of news, but people still need different sources like you guys are an example, right? Creators, right? Um, but then again, journalism done right, right, without we see mainstream media do it wrong sadly, but journalism done right, which I believe we're doing over at the crypt, I think block works and other media platforms in the in the space are doing a very good job in

crypto. Um, I think it just adds it on to that. So, you're able to really see everything now. It's like what do people actually think, what a journalist thinks, and what a creator thinks. And I think it's up to then the person to go and make their own, you know, um, opinions out of that. >> So for we're going to throw you a curveball. We've got Carlos Domingo, the CEO of of Securityize in the back. He's going to join the conversation. You know, this is like this is two different parts of the crypto kind of verse coming together. We've got uh a lot of the institutional side uh and we've got some of this more kind of native uh kind of uh uh you know in the in the onchain in the actual kind of state of of you know using the uh technology that has been

built. So guys Carlos welcome to the uh show and I think this this will be a fun panel to just kind of uh get your both of your perspectives on uh just some of the latest happenings really in in in in the space. So Carlos, thanks for coming in. >> Yeah, sure. Thanks for inviting me and and sorry I'm not going to have a lot of time, but I was supposed to be joined at 4:30, but I'll be here for a few minutes with you guys. I didn't want to miss the opportunity to say hello to you. >> Yeah, I appreciate that. >> All good, man. All good. We know how the traffic gets down there in uh in in uh I think where you are. Um but we've got a very interesting mix here between security ties and uh and Faroke from RUG and the media side of things. And so

Carlos just to kind of introduce you know you and and you know you've been on the show before but you guys are working with Black Rockck you're working with some of the biggest institutions in the space and you're bringing on billions soon to be trillions into the space. I'm actually curious because you're not necessarily in this world but a very very similar adjacent world. What is Carlos your take on the prediction market meta that's forming this entire new asset class. Is this something that institutions are taking a look at? Is it interesting to them or generally how do you see these worlds converging? >> I think prediction markets by the way are very interesting and they're not necessarily just a crypto thing. I mean prediction markets is something has existed outside of crypto before um and now it's you know becoming a crypto

thing as well. Um I think they're very interesting as uh I think far was mentioning that I kind of like a take the social temperature of what people think right and sometimes those things tend to be a lot more accurate. So from the RWA perspective which at the end of the day are is just you know bringing financial assets on chain and some of them have you know price uh you know that changes etc. I think uh prediction markets are probably a very interesting you know way of maybe looking at different price predictions for for things >> uh once they are on chain and they interact with prediction markets. Um you guys probably are familiar with it Toro.

So it to used to have this this social construct where your people were trying to replicate portfolios by following you know what other people were doing etc. So to some extent prediction markets are like that you could maybe create a prediction market about what portfolio will perform better or what asset will go up higher etc and see what people think and whether that gets correlated with what happens on the markets. >> I anticipate we're going to start to see prediction markets on the size of the RWA industry who's going to be leading. uh Faro from your side. I I just kind of a reciprocal question here like how are you thinking about RWAs and the absolute like just the scale of inflows into the space? We have institutions all across the board that are now coming in and

they're onboarding their flows and their user their users and their balance sheet when you're when you're building for this next wave of institutional capital. How are you framing this? I'm curious also from a media side, have you started to shape kind of a different nomenclature, different terminology that you're using? What's the right way to think about this? >> And actually, you're going to love this one, Carlos. Uh we ran prediction markets on RWAS uh last week. >> Oh, that's pretty cool. >> Awesome. I'll send you the article uh that our CEO wrote for for the crypt. But basically, we were running prediction markets on the Darth Vader lightsaber that was selling at auction, right? And so, you can do that for like so many different um so many different assets, right? You have an asset right now that let's say is going to sell at

an auction for x amount of money. Not everybody can afford it, right? A lot of people can. I definitely can't afford Darth Vader's last lightsaber, right? But you know what I can do? I can take my opinion on whether or not it's going to sell for over under $3 million uh at auction, right? And I can do something like that and be able to take uh to to have skin in the game and also almost like feel like I was part of this auction, right? Almost >> price of the auction. >> Yeah, exactly. It was a pretty smart [ __ ] about the price of the auction. Now we're going to run a few about like the price of like you know RM Autos like what this Ferrari F whatever is going to go for or what this like you know Rolex Daytona Lemon's going to

>> new avenue of price discovery. >> Exactly. New avenue of price discovery and then it also allows many multiple people to have skin in the game and to be partake in this. So for us like that's how we approach it on the prediction market side the media side like yeah definitely like we're covering I see people on the [ __ ] side or journalists like cover RWS a lot actually when security ties was announced right like we we were we were right up there. uh all over that news. Personally speaking, I haven't dabbled too much into RWAs because I like to collect items. I'm a big watch guy. Kind of obsessed with watches in a way. It's a good way. It's a good way to park crypto, but every time I buy a watch, we dump like 40%. Uh you know, maybe it's correlated. Uh but in a way, I guess

that's a good asset to own, but I I still haven't wrapped my head around whether or not I want to own the digital version of it, right? Um same thing with latest Pokemon thing. And I'm curious your thoughts, of course, but >> I I rather have the card still. I see I have the PSA 10 little slab. >> This is similar like next week um they they do the RWA summit in in New York. I'm doing a panel with Kaledora from OUIMU about PES versus RWA. >> A debate a debate. Yeah. >> And it's kind of like the same thing. What you don't if you want to speculate on price, you don't need to own the asset right?

>> But if you want to own the asset, then you need to get the asset. So, there's going to be people that are just speculating on price that they would like to buy the digital version or a fraction of a digital version just to see what the price does um and not actually own the asset. And there is people that would like to actually own the asset, right? They're not going to buy like a fraction of a Picasso. They'll wait until they have money to buy the actual Picasso and put it on their home. So, the same thing I think applies to to all sort of financial assets. Some people want to own stocks and then, you know, if you do token of a stocks the right way and the token represents the stock, they're going to buy it. And some people are just speculating with price and they're going

to buy some this these weird derivatives that are out there that do not have any intrinsic value, but they just track the price for people to speculate with it. So >> this is this is the thing, right, Carlos? Like NASDAQ said that they're going to go and they're going to tokenize a lot of these equities. Black Rockck has said that they want to tokenize these ETFs. Which one is the real like if you have it on both and you can speculate on price on both and where does settlement take place? How do you what is your reaction to some of these offerings from regulated entities that are talking about tokenizing their assets?

>> So the the announcement from NASDAQ and DTTC uh is actually not what I will refer to as like the tokenization the way I will do it because it's just basically everything stays what it is right is DTC has a ledger already that keeps track of all all the shares that are tradable and they're going to use a blockchain for that but then it's going to trade in the same place which is NASDAQ with the same market participants. So, so you and I or or any other one will not be able to u you know become a new market participant there. So, while it's great to see NASDAQ and DTC, you know, you know, pushing for tokenization, I don't think that that is a a radical departure from where we are.

What I think tokenization is more interesting is when you can actually take shares in in native form outside of DTC and put them on a blockchain where people can trade them in new market structures whether they're like dexes or or all type of you know crypto centralized exchanges that have the right licenses to trade uh equities. You can then use them as collateral for borrowing etc which you will not be able to do with the way that NASDAQ and DTC announced the other day because it would just be within the same place. Um we we did we tok organized a company called called Lexus and and that is in both places but two different shares like there's some shares that are on DTC some shares that are in the books and records of the transfer agent using a blockchain which is essentially tokenization uh and

and that's I think the the interesting part right or or things like you know Viddle or some of the products we have where where the token does represent the the actual in the the the security um and that trades outside normal market uh things and can you takes like you know peer-to-peer transfer trade 24 hours have instant liquidity on chain and that's what I think is interesting about tokenization tokenization just to keep everything as it is >> it's a maybe a more efficient way it's an efficiency play the other one it's a way to create new markets right in innovation I always say that there's some innovations that provide efficiencies and some innovations that create new value because people do new things or or things that you couldn't do before so anything that is just pure

efficiency is less interesting that creating new markets new value allowing for new functionality which I think is where the interesting things will happen. >> Yeah. It's just like just I was talking to somebody else. You guys are all very young but but I do remember when internet started you had the American online or MSN you know wall garden and then you have the open internet right >> so so for me and the open internet ultimately is the one that you know we're all using and we're all innovation happened and it it happened because it had permissionless innovation right anybody could actually create a website talk to any other create a new protocol a link to any place etc and the other things were wall gardens closed for only the the approved market participants as

you that could post content or do things and those things die, right? Because they were just basically uh an an efficiency version of other means of, you know, distributing content while the other thing was an open platform for permissionless innovation, which is what a blockchain is, right? So, so I'm a big proponent. >> There we go. >> The second model, >> that's the institutions talking dirty to us cryptonatives right there. I swear that's what that sounds. >> By the way, some institutions like Black Rock do share this belief, right? because they tokenized public blockchain really >> that's where they started they decided to do it on a >> permission blockchain close only for their partners and their friends uh so I do believe that the realization that will create disruption and new stuff that we cannot even think about it will

happen on on public blockchains where permissionless innovation will flourish so >> Ethereum coded indeed >> more than just an accounting software >> amingo we will let you go brother thank you for joining us thanks to join for five minutes for >> congratulations and um >> Hey, Carlos. >> I'll join you. >> Thanks for joining, man. >> Thank you. Byebye. >> See you next time, Carlos. Thanks, man. >> I love that. >> Just a little, you know, jump in there for and then just >> Oh, no. I was like, I got I got hit up by a friend. I was like, yo, this is so random. Why are you talking with the CEO securityiz that guy's working with Black Rockck?

>> I'm like the guy's like Black Rockck and Morgan Stanley's [ __ ] blockchain. I'm here like, yo, so this market about the lightsaber, you know? This guy pulls the Darth Vader lightsaber RWA. >> That's the RWA that we're talking about. >> Dude, that [ __ ] was hilarious, bro. >> He's like, hm. Okay, >> that's not a T- belt. >> Well, like the thing that actually worked though is that like you were saying that you're you you like to own the watch. You like to own the asset. And he totally agrees with that. >> It's the same principle.

>> It's the same concept just on a grander scale. Yes. Exactly. Not just price. Yeah. securityizes whole thing is like, look, we want to have the actual asset be in, you know, in custody in some form, be it natively issued, not these rapper versions and all these. >> Yeah, I don't like that stuff. I'm not too convinced about that side of the RWA narrative, you know, like I've talked to a lot of watch companies that have tried to bring it on. I was in Geneva with like one of the biggest >> watch the company that owns like one of Cardier and all these brands, right? and they they flew me out there so we could have a conversation about like how do they want to approach like the watch industry for crypto like what's in the brain and the head of like the next wave

and generation of buyers because that's us right um and and they they can't wrap their heads around the RWA side and I can't either and I'm like technically I should be able to yeah it it it's it gets super fugazy when it's like okay we have a billion dollars in like equities or whatever in our balance sheet we want to do tokenization because it's like the hot metal So boom, we just we just, you know, write on paper that now we have a tokenized version. Now we have $2 billion on our balance sheet. But it's like wait >> there's still there's still just $1 billion.

>> There's only one billion. Yeah. Exactly. >> Right. So So in that's where it gets kind of hairy and it's like, okay, well, we have to actually have native issuance or you got to make it clear like this is just a digital representation. It's actually uh it's going to settle with the same assets that you have offchain. Introducing extended exclusively on Stark, a nextgen ps trading platform live today with 50 plus trading pairs from crypto to tradi. You get the best experience on chain today. Deposit in the community vault for attractive returns EMV compatible and engage in unified margin spot trading lending and per trading. for coming back to our to our uh to our uh prediction markets conversation. That was a that was just a

a big intro. >> Super random. Um so you know you know we we've been doing a lot more thinking about like two-way interactions with um with the audience right like like you know Carlos comes on and gives this take right he's doing this debate at the RWA summit next weeks versus um tokenization or whatever it is. Now it's obviously we have an oracle problem here where it's we don't really know who's going to win. there's not going to be a winner, but like there's got to be a way that we can get our guests to come on the show, have a take, have a claim, set up a prediction market for it, get our audience to be able to bet or gamble or bet or predict alongside us, and basically create this like this kind of shared value loop where we can do a we

can, you know, create this economic relationship with our uh audience. How do you think the evolution of creators and prediction markets is going to unfold when it comes to like creating these deeper ties other than just like the typical creator fan relationship? >> I think I mean this is the end goal, right? Like to be able to say, "Okay, let's make a let's make a call right now with your guest. Let's save with me. Let's be able to spin off a market, get the market out, get some volume on it and get get the right resolution and then and then there's an end goal." The only the problem is I'll tell you first like the the the the what's the hurdles, right? First and foremost, not every market is going to have enough liquidity to do that. You'd have to like see liquidity for a lot of these markets,

and we know that's the biggest problem for most prediction markets, right? It was a problem for us. It's becoming less of one right now, but it's going to be a problem for 99% of them, and that's why 99% of them are not going to be around in a year from now. That's just the truth, right? Um, second problem, second hurdle is resolution. You've just talked about oracles, right? I know Poly Markets ran into its own their own issues with UMA, right? Which is probably why like Koshi's still centralized, right? It's all done internally, which is why we started off as centralized. de developing our own oracles in house working with some great tech partners etc with that that that will all come but how do you set the resolution right is it you guys that's going to set the resolution to let's say I make a call on this like Darth Vader

thing right whatever I guess it's easier to set the res resolution but on a random call that we're making like Bitcoin is going to be at that price by then or the rollup's going to get that many amount of gas by that time or views and stuff like it's extremely hard to find resolution source so we have to agree to resolution source that's very strict because you can't [ __ ] [ __ ] with the resolution source, right? You once it's there, once it's stamped, once it's in the res in the in the market, you can't go and make an amendment, right? Because you're playing with people's money. So, that's where it becomes very tricky. Now, live markets on screen, blah blah blah. That's not that hard. We've built we've built a tool for that.

We can already almost bring it up and or creator markets where it's like you guys tell us in advance like there's ways to that like you guys call us in advance like yo today we have Carlos coming on and this is the skew of guest we have coming on. That's a broad topics. here's five markets that we believe will be pertinent to the to to what we're going to talk about. Okay, cool. I'll have to say mad, right? Mirad team goes back. Let's see what Koshi P market whatever. But obviously the bigger ones have are less prone to do something like that. But like someone like us will go in, okay, let's make five markets that actually fit what you know Robbie and Andy are going to talk about today. And then you have them ready in advance. You guys are pushing them to to your to your

markets to your uh to your audience. They're able to predict live on air etc. leave it open for x amount of time and then that's resolved in a f in a in a in a timely fashion blah blah and done right and then there's a there's a there's a there's a percentage resolve let's say that goes back to the to the creator so that's the way we're approaching it right now it's like hey like easy and clemente were doing a 30-day challenge for trading >> so then easy is like yo and clemente can you can myriad launch market for that like okay [ __ ] it let's go so we did a market for it and people were able to like take >> dude that's what I'm talking about man those fast crowdsource markets that like >> there's those three pro two three problems that you unlet that you

mentioned but like you know right now Poly Market's slow to do they have very strict rules because they use Uma and they have Oracle Koshi I think is getting to the point where it's they they can do a bit faster but these like like dude doesn't matter if there's $500 of volume on the market in the first you know week because it's a new thing dude I don't care like it's going to be five grand at some point and it's going to be 50 grand at some point like it's just a matter of time but but I think that that like innovation flywheel is what we're trying to achieve with at least with like how we're thinking about it and I I I I imagine a lot of other creators will kind of also be wanting to uh you know entertain you >> that's the way I mean the thing I

started off like you right I'm still a creator I still have my morning show every day >> right and so this is exactly why we did prediction markets because we have so many creators like we work with Mando Oie Kaki Tyler myself like etc etc etc so we're able to like just push these markets and we're using our own platforms to do so right we even launched a prediction market show blah blah on Thursday but the thing is like we're able to now create markets around what we believe we're going to talk about and then push volume to them, right? Because it's pertinent to our crowd. Same thing for the crypt. Like if you go to the crypt media, there's markets in line on every single article.

We've built the SDK where like as you're reading an article on the cryp media, you're able to predict natively within the crypt platform. >> Yeah, that's sick. >> Yeah, we've done that with CoinDes as well. So, it's not just for us like we're trying our goal or like the way we see our growth is by doing that, right? This is why you're going to compete compete with the $10 billion poly market or the $5 billion cash, right? numbers just dropped like two hours ago. It's like wow, it's crazy. But at the end of the day, like this is how I think we're we're going to be able to like kind of >> not play catchup, but like innovate in a way. >> 10 billion term sheet poly market, right? 10 billion.

>> Yeah, they did. That just came out today >> with three billion cash something. >> So I put out a tweet that was like I think prediction markets can get as big as Binance in terms of volume whereas people are thinking of them as like just a prediction market. I'm thinking of them as more of just like a an obfuscated purpose platform or an obfuscated kind of like trading platform. What what is your scale of TAM here for Myriad for Poly Market Calshi you know let's say like top three top four markets end up with 80% of the volume you know what is that volume what is that daily you know numbers like you know is there any kind of estimates that you would have for us over like a five 10 year horizon maybe you know I'm not saying like exactly perfect but like are

we talking like trillions settled every month are we talking like a billion a day like >> I mean what's what are memecoins doing right now like pump funded what 18 billion in 30 days. >> Yeah. >> Um something like that in volume like >> Yeah. >> Like there's no there's no >> there's no it's no it's it's impossible that prediction markets don't start like beating that by a mile, right? >> Wow. >> I think because the thing is people don't understand >> prediction market is not a meta. Meta is like meta is just like a a word that's like CT uses and I use it sometimes. So guilty by like guilty but like it's childish. Prediction market is an industry.

>> Okay. It's a serious growth industry. It's not a mess. It's like prediction market next big thing. Premium markets is exist for like 100 years, bro. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> The two first apps on Ethereum were prediction markets. Aug >> Auger. Shout out Augur. >> That's augur. They're making a comeback too, right? But like people don't realize just how deeply rooted crypto is with prediction markets. So like you tell me this like prediction markets going to be as big as the NASDAQ, bro. Like Binance what? Like it's just like gonna right? It's going to make as much money as Binance if not more. Binance are going to integrate prediction markets. is just going to like just start creeping up and take look people would never expect today that poly market would have received a term sheet for $10 billion to me. I'm just like, "Okay, cool." Like that's normal. But

like everyone's shook, right? Of course, it's cool. I'm your for as a founder in the space because the TAM now is grow like the ceiling keeps raising, right? Like the floor price of these like or like of these markets just keeps going high and high, right? But I I don't want to make a call for five years, but this is a multi-trillion dollar. We're not going to put you in that in that position where you have to make those predictions, but you're absolutely correct because prediction markets are are part of the derivatives market and so they're going to make up derivatives are like multiple trillions of dollars of business. And I think one thing that we had someone I think it was AJ that came on earlier and he said basically this is not just growing market share of an existing derivative sector. It's actually creating an entirely new asset

class because of the ability to create more asset more outcomes that were previously not speculated on. Now we have price discovery for those things that were never even valuable before because you couldn't really make them tangible. Now prediction ma markets make them tangible and they let you discover price on them and they're already part of one of the most expansive and general industries that that is out there right now known to man. So I think absolutely we're talking trillions not billions. >> Yeah. Go ahead. >> Sorry I'm just like thinking like how do you even price the financialization of the most prolific asset which is information.

>> What do you what what price do you put on information which is even starting to be tradable? Look at this. Like credit swaps right? >> That's a $5 trillion a year industry. You're telling me predictions prediction markets are not going to top that? Like I'm not even It's on this is it's not like forg like a M. Like this is not that. Like I'm I'm in the like I'm literally in the arena right? >> I'm so dead, dude. I'm talking to all these like Carlos dudes all day long outside of the [ __ ] Twitter spaces and stuff like you're starting to see it like prediction markets are literally going to be the biggest thing. This is going to outpace securities.

>> Wow. >> For I I'd love to get a a take from you on on something that's adjacent to prediction markets which is this entire creator streamer token meta, right? Like pumpkot project to send. They're doing great. I mean you have revenue buybacks. The token is doing tremendously. ripping, >> absolutely ripping as a result of this new announcement. And very rarely do you see an announcement correlate with the type of movement that you see in the token chart. A lot of times it's just macrobased, but in this case, it's actually working. And so I'm curious from your perspective. Obviously, we have meme coins, but this is this is a new meta to use to use your meme.

>> What is how sustainable are creator token markets? What do you think is the value proposition? Do you think these things rip day one? you get a bunch of creator fees and then volume dwindles out over time or how can you make these sustainable generally? What is the right way to think about the creator tokens? >> Dude, how many times have we tried um to tokenize like people over the last >> like do you remember BitCloud? I love that [ __ ] The first I was like one of the first >> like it was so early people were calling everyone on BitCloud scammers. It's like dude I'm just trying the new thing. Do you remember um there was another one? I forgot which one. So obviously remember Fentech obviously now you're seeing a lot of different ones. I'm not seeing

the same thing cuz Pom I'm a huge fan of Pomon. I b post Pal Pom phone. I support Pomon. I love what they're doing. Um but like I I just I I just don't see it as much cuz then like what the person's going to have to continuously stream for it for its token to be worth something. But then it's just like a meme, right? Some memes are worth a lot. They get the attention. like the Jet 2 holiday was all over like Instagram for a moment and all of a sudden nobody's talking about it. So, it's tough because also creators are a diamond dozen, guys. I've been in the creator game for like 16 years. I started when I was 18 years old. I'm 31 now. Uh but I started my first like you know uh blog when I was like 14 years old on Tumblr. So, I've been in this

like creator economy my entire life as long as I can remember. Um and I've seen creators come and go back then on Instagram and I've seen creators come and go since 2021 in the space. Right. Founded Rug Radio. We're one of the largest creator networks. How many people are still here from 2021 creating content? Almost none, right? But out of all the ones that are here, how many are relevant? And I don't mean this in any like arrogant way. Like how many creators are relevant today? And how long can they keep this relevance going? Right? We've been hosting the show for 4 years now. We're still there. You guys have been doing this for a long time.

You're still there. But like once you're not there, like or once I'm not there, why would my token be worth anything? So like there's like this these creator tokens just have an expiration date. So in that sense they're not much better than like memecoins, right? And by the way, if I'm going to trade creator tokens, I rather just own Pump. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> 100%. >> You rather just own the casino. And I mean the the thing is a lot of these on the first day you're going to end up making a ton of cash because like you get this launch really get this big pump on the launch and you get all this volume. But the volume from there most likely is going to be about negative 90% negative 95% per day, you know, just kind of like perpetually because it's just there's never going to be a a a

time when you make more creator fees than probably on launch unless you're one of the ones that I do think even though I completely agree with you and I don't think we're going to do it because I don't think it's going to make sense for us and I don't think it's going to make sense for you. There's going to be a creator who runs one to like multiple hundreds of minutes. >> They found somewhere to do it. Yeah, it would hit 100 mil. It would get close. >> I mean, his cat hit 100 mil, right? Um, >> that was 2024, but like Yeah, I feel you though. >> Yeah, I know. But like it would it would run. I just wonder like see this is when like you got to get like I think Pom Fun's going to start getting the big big big boys onto their platform and see and

see what happens. It's just like whenever it's a token tied to a person, it never ends well. It has the person's intentions. They could be the nicest kindest person on earth. Like I'm not like it's not I'm not talking about like ruggy. I'm saying like it just never ends well. And then people have this like weird it's like really black mirrores right? >> It is. >> There's like this weird value that they attribute to you. Um we we had the conversations, right? Like I think it was Mando was like, "Yo, guys, are we launching a FOMO hour token on Pump Font?" And I was like, "Greatian and then Tyler and then me. I'm like, "Dude like >> I'm glad we weren't the only ones, dude.

>> We got we got MRI TG coming right now. Like we can't be focused on [ __ ] FOMO token. You know what I mean?" So it's like like definitely not for now. It's like, yeah, no matter how much money they give out to creators, which hey, maybe the rewards become 120 million, not 12 million. Now, we're talking, right? So, I think everybody at some point will have a price and the value where they're willing to do it, but I just I'm always scared of like what happens to, you know, to the quality of the content too, right, with with >> I completely agree. And then it it Yeah, it's just it's a it's a it's not a winning battle for the creator. I do think just to close it off, there's gonna be a fat air drop for streamers on Pump that would probably

>> it's probably gonna be six figures if you're doing a good job and maybe seven. So like that is another thing that I think is reasonably likely just based on the they haven't even done an airdrop yet and the token's already out like six bill. >> Consider you can't you can't stream on Pump without launching the token, right? It's >> mandatory. >> Yep. Same with Zoro and all that. Uh, last thing for you, Farooq. We, uh, I got a flight to catch. We We went on a marathon here. Um, dude, you you interviewed Trump, man. What What the hell was that like? Like, like, how was that, man? Tell us like give us the Trump story. How'd that happen? What was the best line in the interview? Uh, where can we find it?

>> Um, I mean, dude, it was surreal, right? Because it was the day after the second assassination attempt. So, it was September 16th, almost a year ago. So, September 15th, 2024. Um, I was under a tent uh with the Secret Service getting checked at Mara Logago. I literally had like one of the German Shepherds up my balls and then one and then they go, "Sir, like you got to step aside." I'm like, "What the hell is going on?" They're like, "Step aside. It was raining." So, we're in the car waiting for half an hour, 40 minutes. Got a call. Homeboy is like, "Yo, don't say anything, but something's happened to the president, but don't tweet because if you tweet, it's going to, you know, everybody's going to know." I'm like, "Okay, I say nothing." The next thing you know, I got Walter Bloomberg down to one uh DB. Everyone's like,

"Second assassination on President Trump at the West at the at the golf course." I'm right there. Like the golf course is like right next to Marco, right? And uh and then I was like, "Shit, what happens?" Like, so I go to a hotel next door. I wait. I wait. I wait. Is the interview going to go on? Is the interview going to go on? And I get a message at night saying show goes on. The president wants to keep the interview on. So how it happened is that uh I was in August. I was at in Japan for WebEx. I'm with the homies, you know, drinking drinking at a local bar in Ginsa and uh and I and I get a call uh from from from a friend's like, "Yo, these guys, they work with President Trump. They're about to launch a project project which is word Libertify. So, you

guys know it very well. Uh they they want Dean someone for Twitter spaces. You're the guy. Like, you're the Twitter spaces guy. It's got to be you." I'm okay. I get on the call with them. They're like, "We know you. I've known the guys for a really long time through my other industry and like, you know, I've been in the game for a long time." And it's like, "We love what you do. We love Foam Rock Radio. would you like to help us with the production? I'm like, I'm done to help you with the production, but can I host a thing? And at the time, they were thinking like talker Carlson, like way bigger. Like, I'm not relevant. Okay. Outside of that, like I'm just I'm just me in the space, right? >> Yo, that's crazy. >> Like, yo, let me get back to you 30

minutes later. Yeah, you can do the Trump interview. I'm like, holy [ __ ] So, I go back to the phone like, guys, we're doing a Trump interview. When is it? In two weeks. So, I'm in Japan. I had to go celebrate my 30th birthday in London on September 7th. >> Happy birthday. Thank you. Seven days later, I'm I'm on my flight tomorrow. I go on a solo mission. I hired 15 person camera crew that we had in uh in in um in in Miami that we've done some work with before. And this how it happened. And like they called me up, we we pulled up, we did the interview and and it was crazy because um the assassination attempt happened and then Hannity from Fox wanted to be the first to interview President Trump after that cuz dude, the whole >> the most powerful man on earth, the most

influential human being on earth at the time, the most popular, right? He was like about to become president. Second attempt on his life. So you can take all the eyes on him and here I am just [ __ ] myself and and Henry didn't get it. It was us. And so here I am like the show's about to start. I press play on Twitter spaces. By the way, it was the most listened to live Twitter space in the history of Twitter, right? It was like concurrent and we know that because Elon sent us stats after to his team, right? And so I press start. So when you press start on Twitter space, guys, there's no going back. There's already a million people. >> Everyone's on me like, "Yo, get me on." I had to get Baron up on stage. I was on the phone with Baron 30 minutes before

trying to help him out with Twitter spaces. I have >> What's like, >> dude? It was super cool, right? But I was on the phone with him to help him out make a space. He didn't have an ex account. So like I'm helping Eric and Dawn Jr. are next to me because I interviewed every single Trump in one night, right? That's what people was nuts. And then security comes, they're like, "Yo, Faro." And I'm like, "Yeah, they want to meet you right now." And I'm like, "No, I can't." Like the Twitter space has started. We can't do it. Like, "No, they want to see you." I'm like, "Oh, fuck." Uh, and so I I go to the other room. It's just President Trump. He's like 6'5. You like I'm like 5'7, 5'8", you know? I'm like not that big. And then I look at I look up to him

and I and then he looks at me. He's like, "Young man, huh?" And I'm like, "Yeah, I just turned 30 30 years old last week, you know, and he goes, "We're going to have a lot of fun." Bam. Shakes my hand with like firm. And then we pull up to the thing and that's at that point when he shook my hand, all my stress and I was stressed. I got the ringing. I can tell you my receptors that day were insane. Like and so and so I pull up to the thing and then just cooked the interview for 35 minutes. Um then after that, you know, did the whole word Libertifi team blah blah. shout out to them, Zach Chase and that whole team, the Wickoffs, like they were the ones who really helped me make this happen.

But it was surreal. Um, contrary to popular belief, he was super cool, super kind, uh, very supportive of me. I think he pul I mean, he's an expert, right? He saw was stressed out. Um, cuz this was the biggest day of my life to this day. Still is. Probably always will be. And uh, and it was super cool, dude. So that's how it happened. That's how >> dude that's legendary. to this day the only crypto interview he's given. So it's insane lore >> paro prediction markets Trump creators we really appreciate your time boss man and uh we'll definitely need to chat more about this combination and prediction markets and media brother >> we got you >> all right brother best of luck in the TG man I know it's gonna be hectic for you >> thank you thanks for coming on brother cheers

>> we'll see you next