ZKR vs ORU, ETH staking chat and more - The Daily Gwei Refuel #531 - Ethereum Updates

Transcript

hello everyone and welcome to another episode of The Daily way refuel where you got the latest news in the ethereum ecosystem I'm your host and the designer and so the 30th of January 2023. all right everyone let's get into it so starting off today's episode we have a nice little graphic here from Tony who runs the Mev boost dot Peaks website that I've highlighted a bunch of times before and he tweeted uh a caption here saying a subset of the largest validators at their relative size and their block building preferences and the relative number of ofac in compliant blocks proposed so you can see here the the entities that propose blocks uh that have a large set of validators as part of their validator said here Lido cracking coinbase binance you know all the big names they're all well aware of now what this chart shows is basically

where they fall on the Mev boost and vanilla building side of things so you can see here that there are only two vanilla builders on this I guess like chart right now uh vitalik and mintdice.com so they're not using Mev boost at all and then you have at the top all of the other I guess validate big validators using Mev boost now uh this show is basically the number of incompliant blocks they've proposed so you can basically say that if you're on the higher side here it means that you haven't uh proposed a lot of ofac compliant blocks and if you're on the low side it means you have proposed a lot so it's basically just the way to show which validators or kind of set of validators is censoring the most or oh fat compliant uh I guess is the is what

is the term the cool kids use right so you can see I guess the on the furthest right here you have um wax exchange uh and then uh a bitfinex and Bitcoin Suites as like the top three and then the bottom three would be a figment uh info if Stones uh and cream I believe or no binance and figment are basically neck and neck there and then in the middle you really have a bunch of uh of providers like Lido Kraken coinbase okx rocketpool and Kobe just there but not really um but basically if we're going like right in the middle it's it's mostly rocket pool uh I think it's closest to the middle and then yeah in terms of size at least and later on coinbase obviously lighter being the biggest here

and coinbase being the uh the second largest but I think being in the middle here is probably healthiest because what being in the middle shows is that you have a very healthy set of Val I guess like validators and a very healthy set of relayers that you support now I think people sometimes get the misconception that once a relay out goes live whether it be a censoring or non-censoring one it is instantly able to be used by these validating services and if you're a solo validator yes you could obviously instantly add it to your validator and Away you go uh same with um with rocker pool I think you have to do it as a custom thing but you can do it and then they add it to the smart node stack later but with something like Lido because you are out so I should say if

you're a rock-a-pull mini pool operator but something like Lido you are relying on Lido implementing this support support for those relayers and as far as I know a lot later doesn't currently have support for the agnostic uh relay or the ultrasound money relay which are the two of the biggest non-censoring relays besides blockchain Max profit right now and I don't think coinbase or Kraken our support for them yet because they're relatively new as well so because of that they're bunched up in uh I guess like the middle here because they support I believe all the big ones support block throughout Max profit and obviously flash Bots and I think a couple other censoring ones uh I'm not entirely sure of all the ones that they support but uh I think just generally my my thoughts on this is that in the

middle is probably okay obviously we want people we want them to be on the right side as much as possible but if we're sticking in reality if we're sticking with what's practical then in the middle is is where it's going to be I mean because you look even rocker pool right rocker pool is as close to solo staking as you're gonna get gonna get in terms of shared values and decentralization and um you know uh health of the beacon chain and things like that but they're still in the middle here and so I foreign it's obviously uh very hard if not impossible to map out the solo stakers but I reckon that they would be in the middle as well because I know a bunch of solo stakers uh and you know these are Big solar stakers they have hundreds of validators and they are not only using

non-censoring relays I mean I personally am obviously on my um Morocco pool mini pools and I'm not using Mev boost on uh my Val my solo validators yet I probably will in in the future but not just yet um but in terms of solar validators I guess like generally I would if I would think that most of them the ones that are using Mev boost are going to be using pretty much every relayer because you can just add all of them and then whatever one comes through is the one that comes through and that's it whereas there'll be some people like me who only use the unregulated ones uh it just depends on on who you are right just depends on on what you want to do because there is obviously a profit mode epr that if you only support half of the I guess like relay uh market

share then you're going to I mean it's not obviously an exact math or an exact science but I guess the fear in theory you would lose up to half of the rewards that you would have gotten if you had supported uh the entire Suite of uh relaysia because you're not going to be getting the juicy rewards from these other other relayers and we've all seen how juicy some of the rewards can be right the Mev stuff is like the real layout and the Mev boo stuff is kind of like a lottery if you win the block as a solo Staker you stand to gain a lot but it's usually the bigger providers that win that block because they have a lot more validators than you Lido tends to win pretty Big Blocks because they have a lot of validators obviously it increases their chances uh in terms of

how much uh eath they make from each block uh but people still want to play that that Lottery and why wouldn't you right I mean as I've said before the censorship stuff really is a uh profit issue I guess or an economic incentive issue rather than an issue around validators or relayers wanting to censor right I mean they relays themselves is a bit of a different story because we've only got eight or nine of them I think and four of them are obviously uh censoring relayers and they're doing that I mean pretty much because their lawyers have told them to really at the end of the day they're not doing that because they want to like I'm sure a lot of them don't want to be doing that but if they're based in the US they're you know they face those consequences if they don't support that if they don't do

what their lawyers tell them to do but I mean in turn we got a lot of these uncensoring relays spun up and if the ethereum ecosystem is taking sensitive resistance a lot more seriously so I actually think that the ofax sanctions have been a net positive for ethereum because at the end of the day like censorship resistance is really the only thing differentiating blockchains from a centralized database and we needed to test that like we we basically for I guess since Bitcoin had been born we basically got away with no test of uh these claims of sensitive resistance on these chains for a very long time now ethereum is facing a incredible test and it's done incredibly well I believe I know some people will say oh well you know it's still up at like 60 65 or

whatever it is uh oh fat compliance on on the old blocks uh not just the Meb booster blocks and I'll say yeah sure it is but at the end of the day not one single transaction has been censored on ethereum ethereum is still censorship resistant but obviously we want to get uh we are but obviously that number has come down as well from like 85 percent ish and we want to get that number as low as possible unfortunately without probably there's probably only two ways that we could actually drop the uh censorship or drop the ofak compliance to zero percent one of them would be to make everything fully private so that validators and relays would have basically no visibility into what they're actually processing um and then you would all and then you or you could have uh something like a

mature proposal Builder separation or or and even that would be not a foolproof method of of um of their of fixing this or you could have like a shutterized beacon chain thing where basically in the mempool Everything Is private then once it goes on chain it's public but yeah I mean there are smarter people than me thinking about this and uh I'm very confident that they're going to come to a conclusion that uh works but we've already come up with a bunch of solutions as I've mentioned before on the refuel around this and it's just very encouraging to to see that there anyway enough on that I've talked so much about the uh censorship and Mev boost stuff on the refuel but there always seems to be another thing to talk about when it comes to that stuff all right so Aragon has updated their

roadmap for 2023. now I talked about their roadmap just a little while ago maybe only a few weeks ago on the on the refuel but this is another updated one where basically they've got Aragon and Aragon two three and four all listed here with all of the relevant online items or I guess like items in their roadmap and what they want to be supporting and doing so uh I mean I'm not going to go through this again I obviously pointed out the big changes that or I guess like the big improvements that are coming for Aragon a lot of it is around sync time of things like archive nodes and getting the disk footprint below two terabytes which would be very very cool because look an archive node that is what I mean 15 terabytes today I guess archive note I believe or some somewhere around that

um syncing that takes a while but it's not just syncing that's the issue it's the getting the the solid state drive uh I guess like SSD storage which can get quite expensive uh and getting it to basically 15 terabytes I don't even know if you'd be able to get 15 Sarah but you could probably do eight terabytes SSD or get two of those but maybe that might not be enough so you'd want to get a third and if you're going to buy three eight terabyte ssds I think it's gonna cost you depending on which brand you go for it's going to cost you anywhere from three to four thousand US dollars right now to do that so that's just the ssds um then you want to have a relatively powerful PC in order to to sync it as fast as possible and the sync time is

still going to take you a little while now Aragon wants to basically radically change that I want to get the sync time down to a few days rather than a few weeks they want to get the disk footprint down to under two terabytes so that you can just cheaply sync an icon archive node and there's a bunch of other improvements that they want to do as well uh to their Aragon client so I mean I'm a big fan of what Aragon's been trying to do I mean they basically started off like this they started off with a mission of making an archive node a lot easier to sync and they have actually succeeded a lot in that but they're not just stopping what they've done so far they really want to push the envelope forward here and they really want to be able to to get this archive

node synced down as much as possible and obviously getting the full node synced down as well not just for ethereum but also for other chains other evm chains they're actually wanting to do a B and B chain a polygon PLS chain and gnosis chain as well and I'm sure they may even look to do layer twos as those continue to grow and maybe they make a client for for a layer two there because as I've said before layer twos will also have client diversity there's not just going to be one uh client that runs everything there's going to be multiple ones at the mature layer twos just like there are on layer one ethereum but you can go check out this roadmap for yourself I'll link it in the YouTube description below all right so John uh chabano hopefully I said that last name right uh has put out

a nice little model about ethereum uh over the weekend or yeah over the weekend where he said this is a detailed functional ethereum model including a long-term roadmap items flexible to easily run any scenarios timing EG when 4844 dank sharding raw updated compression rates staking rates fees Mev Boon MAV burn issuance Etc and it's a spreadsheet on Google Docs so basically the tldr of what this is and you can go through it yourself of course I'll link it in the YouTube description below but what this is is a very advanced calculator based on current and future upgrades for ethereum Block space and what that would mean for eth you know what that would mean for the eighth

annual inflation rate uh it would have whether it be deflationary what that would mean for uh staking yields right uh and you can see all the different fields here and you can edit basically all of this if you Fork the sheet and then you can add in all the different assumptions like 4844 dank sharding being live all that sort of stuff and it Scrolls across the screen as well there's a bunch of other stuff here too and there's also uh the the different drop downs and key terms you can look at as well so there's there was a few of these sheets floating around prior to the merge I remember Justin Drake had one that he had made but it wasn't this detailed it didn't have assumptions at least from memory it didn't have assumptions around 4844 and dank sharding and things like that uh it

basically did like a naive approach took the existing data of the bull market I guess and extrapolated it from there and that's how we got during 2021 uh 10 to 15 yield estimates for e-staking now that's not to say that the yields can't go back up there with the fear of a new that we saw in 2021 if we repeat that in the next bull market or you know anytime in the future those staking yields should definitely go up to 10 plus I mean obviously it depends on how much eat this staked but I mean if if 10 if so if there's a 10 year on East taking I would expect a lot of eth to be staked at that point and that would actually bring it down obviously because more validators online need to be paid that would bring this the the yield down for

everyone but even like a five percent yield on Ethan this is an easy to nominee denominated yield obviously is very very good and I think currently it hovers around five to seven percent I think on average over the last few months it's been 5.5 to 6 and it can go as high as seven percent but it depends on the time frame that you take obviously that's measured out yearly but that's extrapolating a lot so I think that we would have to kind of see uh I guess like on September 15th this year we get the whole year and see what the average was from the merge till obviously a year after the merge uh and then we could get a more accurate number but generally it's always going to be estimates um because obviously fear of a new nmev Revenue are very volatile uh

and issuance as well can can move because uh obviously post withdrawals is going to actually move in but both directions because the more each staked the more issuance there is but the less issuance that goes to to stake it so the more issuance overall but the the issuance that goes to stakers is less for them right because it's spread out there um and then obviously the less there is the more there goes to the stakers the less there is on the um on the network-wide inflation so anyway uh I highly recommend checking this out if you want to play around with it make your own assumptions put in your own numbers see what's going on with different upgrades enabled and disabled and all that good stuff there it's a really great sheet that John has made

I'll link it in the YouTube description below for you to check out all right so speaking of staking armagan.ef here put together a created list of awesome stake ethereum staking resources and now I think I may have highlighted this before on the refuel because I think I've seen something similar to this uh before I can't remember exactly but I just figured it was worth highlighting again anyway if you want to learn everything there is to learn about ethereum staking whether it's being able to spin up your own solo staking node or a rocker pull node or learning about how everything works under the hood uh going out learning about the different clients the analytics you know everything here I mean Mev lsds all this stuff like it's crazy DVT it's crazy how much

um I'm again has packed into this little resource here I mean I highly recommend going and checking this out I'll link this in the YouTube description for all you to do so but this will keep you busy for quite a while actually remember how I told you guys that uh if you were bored or looking for things to I guess learn more about you could go to the l2beat website and read all about layer twos and and all about how they're different you know ZK VMS optimistic roll ups all that good stuff there validium stuff like that well this resource is just as good except obviously for ethereum staking and everything that surrounds it and you may not think that if you're mistaking can you know is as I guess like um complex or is as uh is as uh what's the word I'm looking

for uh exciting maybe as as layer twos uh but it definitely is there is so much going on in the ethereum staking ecosystem it's actually quite insane I mean I think ethereum staking is going to be that trillion dollar industry that I've I've talked about before uh just by virtue of the fact that there's so much excitement about it like not just on the obviously just taking your eighth front and earning a yield on it but all the products that are being built around that all the new uh products that are coming online like I'm super excited for products like steakwis's V3 which allow solo stakers to basically have an LSD tied to their solo stake in a fully decentralized way and also be able to basically run validators as a solo Staker and Outsource the

um I guess like eat collection to the public so for example this already happens in dpos networks where essentially you could spin up your own node uh or your own validator I should say in a dpos network and people can could delegate their stake to you but ethereum proof of stake is very different dpos so what stakewise is doing is that they're creating these things called vaults which basically allow you know me for example or anyone to run uh validators on their hardware and then basically Source eth from the public and it could be done in a non-custodial and decentralized way and then obviously the operator takes a fee now this would be like me becoming a lighter for example right uh or maybe coming a A coinbase or a kraken now

obviously I don't know the legal legalities around now the regulations around that but if it is actually non-custodial which I think it is there shouldn't be many because a lot of the regulations well actually from from my studying of this almost all Financial regulations have something to do with custody as soon as you take custody out of the equation most Financial regulations actually disappear like they're not needed and they actually don't do anything right they're not they're not actually protecting anyone so I think from that point if it's non-custodial then it's it's obviously very very uh very awesome and very easy to do for people because there's no need for them to go through regulatory stuff or anything like that but that's not legal advice obviously that's just me speaking my mind but you should

definitely go check out this awesome ethereum staking resource from uh armagan I'll link this in the YouTube description below for you to do so all right so Stephen gold Fed Up from off chain labs they build Arbor trim obviously has put out a tweet thread that started a bit of a holy war amongst the layer to roll up uh I guess teams and individuals uh over the last 24 48 hours so Stephen started off his thread by saying there's a narrative out there that ZK Ross will be able to do everything that optimistic Roll-Ups do but better the way this story goes is that we're just waiting for zika Roll-Ups to be ready but as soon as they are they win hands down let me tell you why I disagree now this is a rather long thread which I'll link in the YouTube description for you to check out for

yourself but I don't want you to just read this thread I want you to read the quote tweets and I want you to read the replies because as I said this did start a holy war and there's a lot of good back and forth between the different teams and different individuals at these teams that is really educational honestly I learned a lot from reading through all of this that I didn't already know the tldr of all my conversations and reading is that these researchers all these developers and these these teams and individuals have very strong feelings about what they're building and they have very good points around it as well and there are arguments on both sides of the fence I've always kind of positioned myself to be bullish on both optimistic Roll-Ups and ZK Roll-Ups for similar but but also different reasons and on top of that

I've always said that ZK EVMS or I guess like even compatible ZK Roll-Ups in general they're going to even though they're probably going to be live this year there are a lot of things that go into I guess a layer to our roll up generally there are a lot of there are a lot of things that Roll-Ups will be able to do that are that other roles will may not may not be able to do or maybe they're very far behind on there's no Holy Grail when it comes to this stuff I know before I've said the ZK VMS I considered the Holy Grail but there's like three or four different types of ZK VMS there's like five different teams building ZK VMS right um they're all at different stages of development they're not going to be decentralized for quite a long time proving costs are still quite high like

all this stuff is still in very very early stages so you can't actually give a definitive answer to any of this today and that's why there are debates going on all the time around this um and obviously Steven coming out and saying this started this little holy war because people are very passionate about this stuff so yeah just wanted to give my little take there I'm not going to go over the contents of what Stephen actually said because I feel like it's better for you guys to go read the thread yourself and then read the the the the debates that surrounded it to come to your own conclusions rather than me giving you my own conclusion here I I basically try to stay neutral as you guys know um but I do have my uh my thoughts that generally I think this is very healthy

for the ecosystem this is competition at work like I I find it amazing that a couple years ago uh not you know none of the layer twos were live uh people still thought they were pipe dream and then yeah just a couple years later we're arguing over which layer 2 is better right um it just it it just for anyone who out there who has been around since especially like earlier ethereum days like 2015 16 17 you know exactly how funny it is that where it gotten to this point because For the Longest Time Layer Two seemed like uh you know a never-ending research project and then I mean it kind of did because we started off with State channels which was inherited from Bitcoin lightning Network and then we worked on things like plasma and then we worked on things like side change during all of that as well and

then we came to roll ups and now we have different Roll-Ups like optimistic robs and ZK Roll-Ups but then we also have different ZK Roll-Ups and we have different optimistic Roll-Ups and then we have validiums right we have different types of those things so it's just pretty awesome how many things have blossomed out of that initial research that came from back then and it's pretty great to see how far we've come since then to the point where we're just basically arguing over which one's better not about which one's going to work and which one's actually going to scale ethereum we're arguing over which one's going to be better for ethereum which one's going to scale ethereum better which I think is just amazing anyway go read these threads I'll link them in the YouTube description below all right uh last up here on the ethereum front because there is a little

bit of bitcoin news that I'm going to talk about but on the ethereum front I came across this new project called Dove protocol now what Dove protocol is trying to do is Implement what I have spoken out before which was the d a m m or Dam that stockware introduced quite a while ago now what this basically was was a way to solve liquidity fragmentation across Layer Two it's basically allowed you to have a cross L2 amm amm am not amm um and basically be able to tap into layer on liquidity as well now Aztec Network already does this they tap into layer one liquidity out at Layer Two and obviously do it all privately but they don't do the cross L2 um L2 swaps there are other I guess like bridging protocols that uh that do it to

an extent they do it in a much slower fashion but if you want I guess uh single slot or or Atomic composability between these l2s that's a whole nother uh ball game now Dove protocol seems to be tackling this there's not much information yet on what they are they've just got a Twitter profile which you can go follow and a tagline of unified liquidity accessible anywhere but I'm very very excited to see another team jumping into The Fray here because as I said before one of the biggest things to solve uh in terms of a friction point or ux friction point for users is being able to essentially tap into liquidity no matter where it is it doesn't matter if it's on layer one or layer 2 or a layer 3 or a layer 4 or whatever it is right

um what matters is that these things can all talk to each other they can all compose with each other and the end user is none the wiser about what they're actually using in the background to achieve what they want to achieve so you can go read the short little blog post from Dove protocol and also follow them on Twitter if you like I'll leave links to that in the YouTube description below all right so I did say there was something about Bitcoin that I wanted to talk about and it's basically taken crypto Twitter by storm and honestly it's one of the most interesting things that has happened on Bitcoin in a very long time now I'll give you the tldr essentially someone figured out or a good group of people figured out that you can now do nfts on Bitcoin in a limited way in a different way to how it

works obviously on ethereum and other smart contract chains but you can actually do this uh and this is something that Taproot enabled so they're calling them inscriptions and there's a good thread here from KC which I'll link in the YouTube description below um but what these inscriptions allow you to do is basically puts nfts on the Bitcoin blockchain using uh stats uh using basically individual bits of uh of BTC on uh the chain here now I'm not going to go into the technical stuff of it there's a bunch of links here that you can actually read to get the technical details of what's Happening Here but what I wanted to focus on was a a couple of things first thing is as I said it's the most exciting thing that's happened in Bitcoin in a very long time uh and that's quite funny because like

this is like a stable Stakes for ethereum and other blockchain right to be able to do nfts and this Bitcoin nft thing is not the same it it's very very different actually uh and it's very very limited in what it can do uh you know and and the funny thing is the way it works is actually similar to how erp4844 is going to work on ethereum where these inscriptions basically take advantage of a special transaction type on uh on bitcoin uh called segwit uh that allows you to stuff these things in a in a segwit portion of the block and the signature portion of the block and allow you to fill up the block up to four megabytes even though the hard limit is still one megabyte on a Bitcoin block uh this is basically ballooning it out to

four uh and then it only um and then there's kind of like consequences for the change State and and and bloating the state and chain size and all that stuff as I said it gets quite technical when you talk about and I'm obviously not an expert on how Bitcoin coin Works under the hood I have a cursory understanding of it um but why it's exciting is because like I mean this is the first functional thing that Bitcoin has been out first new functional thing that Bitcoin has been able to do in a very very very long time like I'm talking probably since like I mean segwit was activated but and tapra was activated as part of a soft Fork but no one was really doing anything with it for a very long time uh maybe five six seven eight years sort of

thing right and other people are doing it uh it's it's causing division as well that's the second thing I want to talk about where it is very exciting but it's also causing a split in the Bitcoin community and there are actual Bitcoin core devs saying that this stuff is junk we don't want nfts on bitcoin so they're basically encouraging miners to censor these transactions which is a grand twist in irony but anyway regardless of that the reason it's causing division is it it comes to the social layer because for years and years and years Bitcoin has out Builders from its Community right because Bitcoin you can't build on it no one wants to build anything on bitcoin the community just says Bitcoin is done it's finished uh we'll do

incremental small soft Fork upgrades over over longer periods of time but we don't want any of this other stuff on here we don't want nfts we don't want tokens none of that stuff let's do that at their higher layers we all know the story right so that obviously has pushed out all the builders because if you're a builder you're not going to go to bitcoin if you can't build anything so you go to other networks now because of that now that there's something that you can actually build on bitcoin uh you know I'll be at limited fashion but you can still do it most of the community are not Builders so they're pushing back against this they think it's garbage they don't want it on the network they're looking for ways to remove it from the network or sensor it from the network and they're basically coping

over this trying to come to terms with this happening because to them they think nfts and they immediately think of ethereum and they hate ethereum right they immediately think of uh these monkey jpegs or other things things and and they they really a lot a lot of them think that nfts are just an outright scam like the like the the mainstream seems to to think right so that's led to a pretty big division in the community now because of this like and because of the ongoing division here I don't think they're going to attract Builders to build things on bitcoin I mean even though this is limited from a technical perspective just from a social perspective why would you go to bitcoin and say Hey I want to build nfts on here when you're just going to be welcomed with hostility from everyone where you

can go on ethereum and you can basically be like I'm going to build this nft thing and you have thousands tens of thousands hundred thousands of people who will embrace your thing when you build it and not be I guess like um uh not be hostile towards you for it so there is there is that aspect which I think is is pretty important now the the last thing I wanted to talk about with regards to this as well is that I've seen some rhetoric around people saying well you know this solves bitcoin's long-term security issues because it means people are going to pay fees to get these and ft's on the Chain they're going to price out our regular transactions or Bitcoin and then those transactions will have to compete and pay a higher higher fee and then the Bitcoin Fair Revenue will go up because

of this I think this is really I basically putting the carpet for the horse in a huge way just because there's been some excitement and some activity around this over the past couple of weeks and people figured it out doesn't mean that that's going to be sustainable and extrapolating that out to be sustainable is bizarre in my mind but of course people latch onto this because they've been looking for a solution to bitcoin's long-term security issues right and haven't been able to come up with a good solution and they think this is their Holy Grail now if we go to cryptofees.info we can see that bitcoin's average fees on average fees over the last seven days was 300 000 uh it compared to ethereum which is four

million so ethereum is over 10x more uh generates more than 10x uh the fair revenue of Bitcoin so can Bitcoin get to ethereum can it even double from here just based on the demand for these nfts I don't think so because their fear Revenue has gone up a little bit because there's nft stuff but it's new it's exciting we've seen this play out on ethereum and other chains plenty of times before there are spikes in demand around new and exciting things but most of the time it's not actually sustainable and going back to what I was saying about the Builder culture where is that going to come from where the build is going to come from if there's not a builder culture there it doesn't matter that Bitcoin allows you to build things on it the builders aren't going to go there and this is something that

I've had a discussion with my friends about before where they say oh you know some of them have been concerned they've said oh what if Bitcoin allows Roll-Ups to be settled on its Network then people are just going to build Roll-Ups on bitcoin and uh ethereum is going to have a competition from Bitcoin which is the only other decentralized chain uh right now isn't that like bad for for ethereum isn't that negative for ethereum and I basically say to them no because just be just because for some reason if Bitcoin enabled the ability to do this doesn't mean that the builders are going to go do this on bitcoin because Bitcoin does not have a builder culture they'd have to build that up from scratch again that have the community would have to embrace it which I don't think they would because I think Community is um you know

this hostile to something uh like nfts on bitcoin which was enabled by a uh uh uh by a soft Fork that they these bitcoiners were in favor of right then what do you think they're going to be like when someone proposes or someone tries to push through or a group tries to push through the ability to settle things or settle robs on bitcoin they're going to be hostile to that right and then even if it gets through somehow the Builder culture is going to take a very long time to um to basically build out it's going to take years and ethereum already has it and the other chains already have it as well so that's what I always say to people when they bring up that sorts of stuff there so I don't think this is a solution to bitcoin's long-term security issues I do think

that while it's exciting and it's cool to see this happening I don't think it's long term sustainable I think it's a fad I hope I'm proven wrong for the bitcoin's sake right right but I don't think I am because I've seen these play out on so many other chains before it doesn't just because this Bitcoin doesn't make it special doesn't make it different you still need demand demand is obviously everything when it comes to this sorts of stuff and I just don't think that there's going to be sustainable demand there for this anyway on that note that is it for today so thank everyone for listening and watching be sure to subscribe to the channel if you haven't yet give the video a thumbs up subscribe to the newsletter join the Discord Channel and I'll catch you all tomorrow thanks everyone