Is ZK ready to host DeFi apps?

ETH Tbilisi 03 · December 2025 · 3:28

Lucid Samuel, founder of Kage Protocol, debates whether zero-knowledge applications are ready to carry real DeFi volumes. The clip weighs prover costs, performance and user experience against the demands of onchain trading and lending. Recorded at ETH Tbilisi 03.

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From ETH Tbilisi 03, hosted by ETHTbilisi.

Transcript

you said something that I got I found very curious and I didn't understand it very well. So along the lines of uh you said if wallet uses perhaps unis swap then it cannot be fully secure because it has what why why does it have that's the question and additionally I didn't understand what you mean because let's say wallet uses unis swap to offer you exchange services is it already not secure or you if you don't use the unis swap services and you just use the wallet to store your coins then can it be secure that's

>> okay so I didn't mean secure I meant private >> so I was talking about view keys and I was talking about um the fact that zk basically protects or gives privacies to values particular set of values and it doesn't give privacy to um things like that has to do with the network So if I send you funds right now privately using a shielded primitive doesn't have to be Zcash can be anything. I could shield uh this is the shielding frameworks. I could shield a trans I could shield Ethereum right now and send it to you directly to your address. There is no way that could be broken basically. But

if I want to do like DeFi activities and I want to maybe add liquidity to unis swap or I want to send or the app that I installed was using unis swap to process transactions at the moment when I'm sending you money not directly to your address but because the app I'm using uses unis swap there would be leaks of metadata the timing and a lot of informations that security researchers can used to basically dox you regardless. So that's what I was talking about. I wasn't talking about them not being secure. It's it's a trillion dollar up to a trillion but almost a trillion dollar protocol. So yeah, I'm not I wasn't talking about the

security. I was talking about the privacy. So if so if you want to build applications that could use uh D5 privately there are a lot of more factors aides a lot of more primitives aside ZK we need to do like um me um encrypted me encrypted intent there a lot of primitives you need to you could use mixnet some people use T some MPCs a lot of more are tech primitives or implementations you have to do to be able to like you know do the secure end to end transactions Well, thank you for the answers. They're welcome.

>> Great. >> Thank you. >> Also, actually, I think the the RCV is a problem on this case because you can you can track IPs like stuff like this. Like for example, having lights clients, it would be important like at some point. >> Yeah, exactly. >> To actually have real privacy stuff. >> So, basically, it's just about the our metadata of information. me if you're not protecting mess if you're not protecting our there's so much information that can that get leaked if you're using like external layers and I mean that's the same problem that happened with Zcash itself when they started implementing near but is also like working on improving that aspect to make sure uh such stuff doesn't happen