Yield-bearing stablecoins and the growth of Spark

Transcript

GM good morning welcome to the milroad show The Daily crypto show where we stuff our updates with value just like that turkey on your table I'm your host Jay Hamilton and today we're joined by Sam mcferson CEO of Phoenix labs and key contributor to spark the first star or subow within the newly rebranded Sky ecos system also known as maker in today's episode we're going to talk about a few different things first we're going to talk about stable coins and the future of yield bearing stable coins or savings account based stable coins something that the market has not really captured yet but there is opportunities

to get between 8 to upwards of 20% yield on stable coins we're going to talk about how maker sky and Spark are participating in that we're also going to talk about how these stable coins are starting to go multi-chain and what chains are on on and how much that is important for their growth then we're going to talk about Sparks revenue and you guys are going to be blown away theyve doubled their annual projected annual revenue in the last month we're going to dive into what's behind that and then at the end we're going to talk about Sparks new liquidity layer launch which is leading to an incredible Revenue opportunity for them in the long term we're going to break that down today's episode is a part of a bigger series of episodes that we've done for

you guys because we are really big fans of maker and Spark is a key contributor within the maker ecosystem they don't have their own token yet but we're going to touch on that at the end of the episode about how they're launching their own token but we've done three episodes here this is the third in a three-part series first we did an episode with paper Imperium who is a former contributor to maker and he gave his be case his honest take on why he decided to exit maker then we did an episode with Martin researcher for milro pro where we gave our thesis and our take on investing on maker hint we're bullish we are not on paper Imperium side we think differently which is why we think investing and maker is a great

opportunity right now and then we have today's episode with Sam to talk about spark in order to give you guys a full balanced approach and review for your investing so you can make your own decisions and feel safe and feel good before we jump in it's Thanksgiving and I'm so so thankful for all of you I just need you all to know every one of you listening I wouldn't be able to do this show every day without you our team everybody at milk Road are so grateful for you today and every day of the year I hope you all have a fantastic Thanksgiving for celebrating if not still thankful and grateful you for you every day also thankful and grateful for our sponsors who make this show possible meanwhile is the world's first licensed and regulated

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exclusive access to leverag exposures with the first two times short or two times long ETFs designed specifically for micro strategy stock position yourself with Precision with T-Rex you gain access to powerful tools for sophisticated [Music] investors Sam welcome to the milk Road Show yeah thanks for having me pleasure to have you my man a fellow torontonian a fellow Canadian I love to see it uh let's start with um usds plays a very interesting role usds being uh the stable coin that was launched this past summer it pays a very interesting role

in the stable coin Market as a yield bearing stable coin a stable coin which gives you currently eight and a half% yield now within today's market 90% of the stable coins are basically non yield bearing they're centralized stable coins usdc and usdt controlling most of the market what role do you think stable coins like usds or die play in the longterm of decentralized Finance when we look at most of the market just wanting these non-yield bearing stable coins right now yeah it's a good question so I I would say I differentiate the stable coin Market into two main categories so there's the

one that I think people are more familiar with which is tether and usdc which are more like uh this is the non-yielding stable coins these are fatback and uh like although there is some they do offer a yield sometimes behind kyc uh when I'm talking about yield bearing I'm talking about permission permissionless yield bearing stable coins so uh then we can get into why like what exactly that means um so the uh the Fatback stable coins that is connected into the either the US banking system or the Offshore Banking system in the case of tether um that is the first uh step of bringing dollars on chain at a at a large scale you have this next

layer that is H further down the stack which is uh which is on the onchain can think of it like the onchain banking system where uh people can deposit into various stable coin offerings and the name of the game here is is yield so how much uh what what is the best risk adjusted scalable yield that can be provided on chain and usds has been a a leader here as still remaining the largest what we I would call this a decentralized stable coin where it exists entirely on chain and is there to uh optimize the yield for the end user such that they can get um the this this relatively safe yield um at a at a very large scale so for example like usds is

offering 8.5% right now uh it's it's about to go up to 99.5% uh next week and it's it's able to sustainably deliver this yield to users um from a combination of the uh loans that it's issuing so because uh we are entering like a a bull market part of the cycle uh the yields go up in defi so uh sky usds is able to rebalance the loan portfolio to maximize the yield on the user's behalf so you still have access to these uh dollars that you want to use for payments and everything else but while your money is sitting in your wallet why not be earning this uh this yield on top of it um and so like

otherwise you're being inflated away so this this uh this Market of a decentralized yield bearing stable coins I think is a very important distinct Market from the uh more common ones tether and usdc and I I just want to be clear because I can hear the voices of our listeners right now screaming at me saying are you talking about algorithmic stable coins and Luna from the last cycle and their like alarm bells are going off because that it's I get it guys you know last time you might have heard somebody giving you yield like you know I me nine and a half percent is much more reasonable but you you hear things like 20% yield and you might think whoa whoa whoa like this is this

is this legit but I want to be very clear this is not an algorithmic stable coin like Luna this is very different and as Sam said these yields are based upon real numbers this is not fake yield this is this is legit this yield goes up and down as the market goes up and down so it's nine and a half it'll be nine and a half next week you said Sam it's amazing that's going up again nine and a half percent yield just for just for holding money like and it's sustainable yeah and it's sustainable okay okay great so let's just talk about usds for a second and let's talk about die because I want to understand the difference so you launched usds in the summer you're at almost a billion tvl now I think somewhere 800 900 million

tvl D is uh just over 4 billion TBL tbll uh what's the plan here who is the is the plan to keep both of these stable coins long term or is the plan to focus more on one versus the other how do these two fit together yeah so D is the Legacy uh version of usds and uh really actually both of them are are the same asset fun fundamentally um so it it's it's more important to look at the collective market cap between the two which is about 5.3 billion as of right now um so the reason for the switch to usds is uh primarily looking at the U next order of magnitude and growth so D

has been very popular over the years within defi uh people know and love it it's been uh tried and tested uh this like d was originally launched in 2019 so five years now that's like an eternity in crypto we've survived uh Bull and bare markets um the model is pretty well proven um so usds is is looking at the future and the some of the issues with the original brand um is that I mean mainly it doesn't have USD in the name so it's actually hard to convey to people what the product you're selling is uh if if like it's not that self-explanatory so spending a bit of H pain in the short term to position ourselves to the long term like yes we are a USD a coin so having USD in the

name makes a lot of sense um these were the primary motivations of of of the Rebrand and so let's talk about who who's the ideal user of usds and I want to understand because the the easy comparison the the only comparison that I can really make for usds is Athena and Athena but Athena is different be I mean the main difference is their their stable coin yield right now is 25% which feels more like alarm Bells going off uh but seems to also be a more sustainable yield what is is is Athena competitor to usds or is usds going

after a different type of customer how do you fit those I view I view these uh as somewhat different products um although there is some element of competition I think the market is so young that it's uh it's it's a still very collaborative uh environment right now um so yeah I mean yield is one of the metrics you look at but uh like there are other things you need to take into account so first of all yield in absolute numbers is not that important we need to look at risk adjusted yield so uh you know maybe somebody's offering you know 100% yield on something doesn't mean like that's instantly better right like uh there are dangerous uh things out there um so what we would differentiate from uh say a product like

a them on is uh liquidity so uh usds is is aiming more for this Middle Ground where we are not aiming to maximize the yield to the utmost degree we're trying to sit more in this Middle Ground where usdc on the one hand has some of the largest liquidity on chain but they do not offer a yield whereas Athena is maximizing for maximum yield but their liquidity on chain is quite limited so we're more in this Middle Ground where uh usds will offer a I would say one of the the best risk adjusted yields in the space but also uh usds holds uh over1 billion dollars in usdc in immediately available liquidity all times and it

strives to keep a 25% uh Reserve uh so that people can treat it pretty much like usdc usdc has a lot of great properties for payments and you know exiting and defe it and all this kind of stuff so these are complimentary products I view them as so as a user if you're sitting in usdc and you're not earning a yield you can just pop right in into uh the savings usds start earning this uh soon to be 9 99.5% yield and then you have this confidence that there's this over1 billion dollars sitting there that you can exit into into usdc at whenever you like okay very interesting that that's super helpful uh there was a big announcement that came out in the past few weeks which was that usds has now gone multichain now available on salana

available on some of the l2s as well how important is it for usds to be available on these other chains it's extremely important um so aium has uh been on the rollup Centric uh road map for a while now so uh the idea is that more and more of the uh users will be on like l2s and stuff like that as well as we see new players in the space like a Solana which are offering great uh ux to users so there's no reason uh like historically usds and D have been uh strain to ethereum um with limited uh access to the other chains but uh that's changing so we want to be uh present everywhere so people who are on say base and they

have usdc they should also be able to get access to this 99.5% yield at at uh at basically any size so you know you have $50 million you want to move it into the savings rate that's perfectly fine we want to facilitate that you want to use bass you want to use arbitrum you want to use salana like uh this these are these are all great yeah especially right now when so much of the activity happening is on salana and bass and we just did an episode that we released uh today uh all about Bas and what's going on there and I mean I don't need to tell anybody uh that salana is doing well everybody everybody knows that thanks pump. fun and meme coins uh okay let's go to I

want to talk about Sparks Revenue uh and I'm gonna bring up a chart here um to show what's going on is uh so you guys can see this is a little bit small let me zoom in a little bit okay so this is Sparks re estimated annual revenue and if I look a month ago so I'm looking at October 30th it was 108 million and here we are a month later at November 28th 240 million estimated annual revenue what what's happened in the past month to more than double your anual ual Revenue yeah so this speaks to um what uh we're developing at spark which we call the uh spark liquidity layer which is um investing all across all

opportunities not even just in defi but within trafi so we have uh treasury bill backing we have uh crypto lending Market backing uh we have centralized exchange purpose protocol access um and so basically we just have access to the entire landscape and we're able to move uh the balance sheet into whatever the best yielding opportunity is and so during times when uh like the crypto Market is is like in a bare Market you know maybe allocating that into treasury bills uh is is the optimal path but when we're now entering what appears to be uh the first part of a bull market um the defi rates and the crypto lending rates uh Skyrocket and so we're able to jump

on that uh very quickly and rotate the balance sheet into the best uh yield and so end users who are sitting in the savings rate this is why the savings rate can go up to 9.5% and potentially even Beyond because we do all the hard work of uh distilling this yield uh within um all these opportunities and Distilling it down to this uh savings product that's just on every chain and you don't even have to think about it and you as a user sitting in usdc can just start getting this uh this sustainable yield um and just and just park your idle funds there and so with the knowledge that we will uh work on your behalf to deliver this best possible risk adjusted yield yeah fantastic it's uh it's it's it's amazing just to like think about

the comparison to a bank here because banks are also doing exactly what you're saying on our Beal but they're just not passing on nearly as much to us the end user like you're getting I mean depends on what your savings account is you're getting 1% you know maybe maybe one and a half percent yield right whereas in in Defi and in crypto World we're getting much better yields and hopefully that is you know the the future that we all see I want to before I want to talk about spark liquidity layer which you brought up um which is is a fantastic product that I'm really excited to touch on but before we do I I also just need to bring up this this tweet that you guys put out I think yesterday or just the other day

just to show how much you guys are really dominating defi right now spark L is the top the highest tvl growth over 24hour 7day and 30-day time frame that's just incredible is it's just and do you do you foresee this continuing is this a is this a moment in time uh no I mean I've been through bu markets in the past and they always blow you away so it looks like we're going through this like uh exponential growth phase again um so I expect this trend to just continue as uh you know usds is is the largest decentralized stable coin and as such we have access to the most liquidity and so once with especially in

Bull markets when people are just borrowing borrowing US dollars as much as possible uh to leverage up because they know the prices are going to go up uh this is where we're really shining so uh we are uh the the best facility in in defi right now at scale uh to be able to lever up at huge scale and so this is why we're seeing these massive growth numbers but I I do expect this to continue as The Bull continues incredible incredible and I think as you everybody listening knows our belief is the bull is just getting started we've still got uh a solid uh six to 18 months ahead I don't have a crystal ball I don't know how long it'll last but somewhere in that range I think uh okay let's talk about spark liquidity layer or SL for short uh can you give us the

uh as if we were a four-year-old explanation first of spark liquidity layer sure um maybe it helps to run through the history of how we've done lending uh in the past and I guess I'll focus on spark um so spark originally launched with its own internal uh lending Market we call sparland and this is actually the metrics that you were pointing at is spark is our Flagship product second largest uh lending market and the reason it's had such explosive growth is because of its uh relationship to Sky and usds liquidity so Sky um spark as the uh star is able to borrow from sky sky at this wholesale borrow rate at huge scale so like we're talking

billions of dollars and it's able to borrow this just when it's needed and so this has uh solved an issue that a lot of uh Landing markets in defi have where uh they somebody may borrow on this lending market and then there's not enough liquidity so the rates will go up uh like maybe even double digits 15% 20% and this is very painful for borrowers and they there's this uncertainty about when uh a a stable coin lender is going to come in at size and then deliver more liquidity to the market so spark liquidity layer uh is is the generalization of of this whole structure in that um the observation is that this issue plags uh every defi

lending protocol and so uh spark liquidity layer will aim to in uh watch the market see when a user uses you know chain x with protocol y you know maybe well let's use concrete examples uh say somebody wants to use a on base and they want to borrow 20 million in usdc against their eth to lever up um that user there may not be that much liquidity on that market so if that user maybe they can't even borrow 20 million and maybe they can only borrow five million and then if they borrow that five million the raids Spike and there's this like waiting for people to come in so the spark liquidity layer is the person that comes in with guarantees so precisely because of our uh

differentiation in the market and we have all this excess uh liquidity um we're able to observe this person borrowing on a on base and just move usdc over to base in and then deposit it into the um a landing Market on base um from from ethereum uh main net and so the idea is that this is the general structure that we will just Supply uh liquidity across all the lending markets such that users previously there was this concern about um liquidity fragmentation where uh users have to look oh I can only go on ethereum I can only go on arbitrum uh I have to like look around and see which protocols have the most liquidity and there's just a

whole bunch of calculus here and now the uh with the spark liquidity layer in place you don't have to care about this anymore you can go use a on base and just borrow and just know that within uh the transport time of uh Circle uh cross-chain messaging protocol which is about 20 minutes you know within 20 minutes you're going to get more liquidity coming in so that your rate will balance across the entire ecosystem so this is a pretty pivotal change because liquidity fragmentation is still like a huge issue and so we aim to to solve this um so it's going to hugely improve the ux for um for borrowers and then on the lending side as I mentioned before we also export this yield cross

chain so that if you want to lend your stable coins you no longer have to be like uh I want to lend you know the rates are at 15% on a they're like 7% on Moro I have to decide this and there's all this calcul you don't need to think about it anymore just stick it in the savings usds and then we do all the complex uh behavior on the back end of balancing across all Defi and this this system uh is entirely automated wow it's it's just in I I don't think people really realize this is one of the this is one of the things that Happ happens in Bull markets is fundamentals go out the window and pumpamentals win and all everybody cares about is hype basically and

unfortunately the nerdy stuff which is really the stuff that is going to impact the world long term such as What spark liquidity layer goes unnoticed and nobody celebrates it like they should but this is absolutely huge and this is you already have deployed sparkly I'm just going to bring up another chart here it's a little bit small but I'll try to zoom in uh if you guys can see here at the bottom screen so you've you've deployed $9.4 million I think this is on base that you guys have done this and you're getting 5.2% apy for an estimated annual revenue of just below $500,000 and my guess is that this is just the beginning this is this number of this deploy number is likely to go up

considerably in the next few months is that correct yes that's correct so this is a soft launch um and these numbers are about to scale up uh quite a bit like like in the next month so like this is this is just a test this is just a test amount so we're really going to be rolling this out in size in quarter one uh and so people are going to just see the effects like very quickly so from from the from the borrower side like what the the opportunity that you're really the thing that you're really giving to the entire Market here is a simple way to get a sustainable yield 9.5% right now on

usds that is not fully risk-free but a very safe risk adjusted yield hey come hold us SDS get this yield don't have to go down the the defi curve you know great for a lot of our listeners everyone in you know guys you guys and gals listening you can tell me how many of you are using D5 but from what I understanding not every one of you is using D5 but you all everybody everybody's going be taking profits in this cycle and when you take profits you're going to move out into stable coins now you might go into Fiat if you need Fiat for something but I'm GNA guess a lot of I'm gonna hold money on chain what are you gonna hold your on chain money in well you're gonna hold it in something that gives you yield I

would assume or at least a good part of it and here is just an incredible opportunity to receive yield that is safe is not the exact right word but risk adjusted yeah exactly so yeah you have to park your funds somewhere um and taking no yield uh doesn't make any sense I mean you should at least be taking uh what's called the risk-free rate uh which is uh currently about 4.6% um but then even beyond that there's there's this like Optimal threshold where you can capture like most of the pretty easy yield and still not increase your risk by all that much so yeah we would call it like a relative one of the safest yields uh in defi that's available

able okay let's let's talk about spark token so you are planning to launch spark token don't exactly know when but I'm assuming sometime in 2025 I don't know if you can give us any ideas around timeline uh you have right now H an active opportunity for people to farm the token by participating can you talk to us a little bit about about the token and we don't need to go deep into the tokenomics or anything like that but give us an overview of the token maybe timeline and how people can farm that right now yeah sure and so actually you can access all of the stuff we've been talking about on spark. uh so that we have an app there so you can access the savings rate and all of that um but so

on the lending Market side as I mentioned before we have this lending Market called uh spark lend uh which was the first product that we launched that the thing that's breaking all these tvl numbers now um so on there we are offering a pre- farming airdrop for S spk so as of right now you can uh deposit eth and then borrow die um and then you know use that for whatever you want most people use it for uh leveraging uh their eth so they can get uh more exposure to the bull market so if you do this we have um a counter that's going to count your exposure there and will uh give you an S spk uh airdrop there is also another one that's running on a our friends at a like uh their main lending Market you can

deposit usds and also earn uh some spk there so that's the uh Early Access availability you you can access that right now um once the token launches there will be uh Farms that uh will generate and S spk is actually a fairly unique token um because unlike uh other tokens that have VC backing um that have like all these pre-allocation um 80% of the S spk allocation goes out in a in a fair launch distribution so people can deposit usds and then get uh the S spk proportional to the usds that they deposit into that farm and 80% of the supply goes out this way that anybody uh has equal access to so uh we think this

is this is a very uh novel thing um you know Fair launch is uh uh is very um uh important right now and so uh we want users to be aware of this yeah this is uh this is huge and we've talked so so much on the show about low float High fdv projects and tokens and if you guys have been listening to the show you know they've been talking about it for I feel like a year now uh and this is one of the issues that a lot of projects are in particularly a lot of the large chains and the large protocols that got VC funding and they have all these token unlocks and the supply you know you look

at their FTV and the FTV is like you know 10 times a 100 times their Market cap and it's like okay wait a second like I'm you're you're basically you're buying off of the VCS in that case so there's not as much opportunity and then mem coins came along and everyone was like sweet let's just go for meme coins uh even though there's absolutely zero fundamentals there so I don't know if not not not for me but sure for for some others um okay I wanted to chat quickly about the relationship between a and maker because this is a very interesting relationship and if my understanding is that essentially there was a fork of a in order to create spark uh can you

explain what the relationship is there and how this relationship works yeah so I mean we've been good friends with a like we've worked with them like since basically we started um so yeah we uh forked sparland out of a uh the reason we launched sparkin in the first place actually was uh the noticing that uh maker has its own legacy Vault system where people could collateralize die positions but there was just like missing some features so like uh for example uh letting people who uh deposit eth um that eth in maker uh was locked so no there you couldn't get a yield on top of it once liquid staking tokens came out it became important uh for

Capital efficiency reasons to be able to re let people borrow that eth that's locked up so that didn't exist and OB um we looked at we compared a few lending markets at the time and a V3 which had just come out at that time uh was ticking all the boxes and they had introduced this new uh eode that none of the other lending markets uh had which we knew eode is basically High leverage um so we wanted to use this for the uh for the eth collateral and so we knew this was going to be a very hot thing and so this is why we decided to go with uh a for this um and so we made a proposal to them um with a revenue share so uh and they accepted that shortly after we announced the launch of spark

and um yeah so it's been a collaborative environment uh ever since uh we and as I mentioned we are running a s spk allocation on their main Market they integrated usds uh shortly after launch into the flagship uh alv3 lending Market which is the largest lending Market in Defi and so uh and then we have been running uh campaigns with them in collaboration this has been maybe you've seen it this is the sky a force so um yes there is element of competition with all these things but the space is just so small it makes much more sense to be uh collaborating and growing the pie together yeah completely agree there's so much so much opportunity uh okay I

want to touch on a few of the things going back to the episode we did with paper Imperium and he talked about a few of the challenges that are presented to maker not specific Al to spark but to to maker and the broader or sky and the broader ecosystem um and one of those was a a belief that there's too much centralized decisionmaking within maker and that run the founder of maker is has basically a group of his friends that they just do what he says I want to give you a chance to address how decision making is made within maker and tell us if you feel that is a challenge and if that's a challeng is a natural challenge

to a uh wouldn't be a surprise if that is a challenge for some for an organization that has grown as rapidly as maker has uh but want to hear what your thoughts are from being a core contributor and under team behind the scenes yeah sure um so previously I was a part of uh the maker Dow we had more internal uh core we called them core units so I saw this uh Dow structure thing uh play out over the years and it's still such a new uh structure of governance that I think we're still largely figuring it out and so uh what was called the endgame proposal uh this is a proposal that passed governance about two years ago to rru looking at the failures of of dows and trying to

and and want like looking to restructure maker uh such that it can actually do become decentralized uh for real um and so we're right in the middle of that process so the idea is that um instead of having everybody in this very flat structure um you know all making proposals openly and there's no you know Northstar direction or anything like that it's just Choose Your Own Adventure and uh it's just it's too open it's too prone to politics and it's too prone to like probably even corruption in the long run and so uh the restructuring of endgame makes it so that the core of now sky was maker at the time sky is that it's meant to be dead simple at the core

you can think of it and I it's not a bank but I think it's a useful analogy in that Skye looks more like a central bank um in this new paradigm and then something like spark or the other stars are more like commercial banks that interface with the users have smaller teams can move faster and potentially even fail so it's combining these two worlds that uh where you can really hit The Sweet Spot and so under this uh new paradigm Sky would have this rule set of like here's the general rules about what you can do for Lending setting like you know kind of Bank bank requirements what are the capital Junior Capital requirements for safety of the core protocol what are the basically all the rules that will make it so that um even if one of the stars goes completely off

the rails the core is still protected and so then once these rules are set the Stars spark being one of them are then free to decide to do whatever they want so U within the rules so spark can decide to go L on base um you know go lend on a or you know maybe it wants to go do gaming or something like that like there's basically the the the cing it's wide open uh canvas uh for each of the stars and so then there you get specialization with the star so then you have one star that's for example ours that is focused on optimizing this yield generation across uh ethereum and other places but then you can have another uh star that's say focused on um you know

real world assets traditional Finance this kind of stuff these are completely different skill sets like my team is a devel er Team we're experts in smart contracts we are not experts in law and traditional Finance so uh it makes sense to segment these kinds of things um and so how this whole system is is forms a decentralized object is that you have um enforcement from the top down but it's just sort of like are they following the rules yes or no okay if they are then let them do what they're going to do and then you have competition between the Stars keeping them in check so if there's you know corruption mismanagement any of the Stars the whole system is protected from this because that star will just be not not competitive with the other ones and it will crash and burn and that's perfectly

okay that's that's capitalism that's we want that to happen completely it's a great answer how so spark is the first star any any idea of what we can expect in terms of more stars there will definitely be more stars and uh I think they'll come quicker than people expect uh but there's uh nothing public about that yet nothing public yet okay yeah um and F final thing I want to touch on is uh the Rebrand from maker to Star uh would love to get your honest take on it because from the outside it feels like it hasn't gone according to plan and it made have might have caused more of a distraction than actually proven a

proven to to solve the issues that uh that maker were was having it seems that there's another more proposals coming up to maybe Backtrack on some of it uh can you give us an update on where we are with the the Rebrand from maker to to Sky and how you feel that's gone and where you think it'll go in the future yeah although I do notice on crypto Twitter people love dunking on maker and all this drama that's associated with it for me I'm always focused on the fundamentals and like the fundamentals as we went over in this uh episode are just up up and to the right so like this is the this is the most important thing and to me that means like the Rebrand was a success we had uh usds reaching one billion dollars in like the fastest

record time of any stable coin that's ever launched uh the total uh supply has been growing and um we've just been further optimizing the yield Generation Um which has been this positive feedback loop uh back to the suppliers to get them uh this good yield so like my role you know focused on spark is like uh just always build the fundamentals you know the market uh the market will catch up um sentiment will catch up fundamentals are always the most important thing in my view yeah fantastic answer Builders just you're just GNA keep building and everything's going great and so don't

worry about all the other stuff totally get that uh Sam this has been a fantastic conversation thank you so much for your time today everybody listening in I want to know how you guys are feeling about maker sky and Spark are you bullish are you bearish what are you feeling if you haven't gone back and listened to these other episodes that we've done highly recommend you do whether you're considering an investment in maker or sky or whether you want to get involved in farming spark there's some great great opportunities here with truly a project that probably has the best fundamentals within Defi and is actually decentralized like actually leading the way in moving towards decentralizing ation that no other

project could even come close to competing with so it's just fantastic to see Sam thanks again for your time today thanks for having me everybody listening in have a wicked awesome day as always if you liked today's episode please hit subscribe and make sure you follow us you don't miss out on the next one there's also a link in the description to our free 5 minute daily newsletter where we simplify crypto for you while making you laugh and if you're willing to step up your crypto investing game we're going to also leave a link for milk Road Pro you get access to our portfolio where you can see exactly what we are buying this is your number one resource to help you invest successfully

in crypto one final note this show is for educational purposes only and nothing we say is financial advice investing in crypto or any asset is risky and you should never invest more than you can afford to lose thanks so much for listening in my friends have a wicked awesome day