Why are we here, New zkRollup and more - The Daily Gwei Refuel #686 - Ethereum Updates

Transcript

hello everyone welcome to another episode of the delway refuel where up latest news in ethereum ecosystem I'm your host Anthony s to the 8th of November 2023 all right everyone let's get into it so I put out a tweet yesterday and this was after I put out yesterday's refuel uh where I said been thinking a lot lately about what we are actually building in crypto and who are we actually building it for what value are we bringing who have we helped so far where to from here and I said that I'd give my long form thoughts on this on today's episode now I want to spend probably the next 10 minutes or so talking about this so if you're not interested in my thoughts here you can just Skip Along there's a bunch of other things I'll be covering obviously in in today's episode but I think this is

quite an important thing to talk about uh at least like at this stage of the market where I guess we're in like the transition phase from the bare crab to the bull market where things are getting a bit noisier but still relatively quiet but we stand to be welcoming a bunch of new people into the ecosystem as the bull market spins up again now obviously most of these people are only coming to make a quick buck which is totally fine nothing wrong with that but I think that for those of us who have been around for a while I mean for me it's been over 10 years since I first got into crypto in 2013 I find myself especially over the last few months asking you know what are we building here like who are we building it for what are we actually doing where's the value um uh not only

awing but where's the value actually being had for everyday people you know I I did mention on Twitter the other day that networks like Tron for example that no one even really talks about are delivering a ton of value to people through lab coins right but like where where's the other value and this is something that I wanted to explore today now first off we can kind of pick the obvious kind of use cases of crypto here the obvious things that are driving a lot of value for a lot of people around the world the first thing and I believe this is still crypto's best product Market fit is non Sovereign or self- Sovereign or I guess like non nation state money like that is obviously what Bitcoin was created to be um eth is also that to me as well um and you know

people will argue their favorite coin is that but I think in terms of uh just like General acceptability and and market cap and size and all that BTC and eth are that right it's money that exists outside of nation state control it is not controlled by like a Federal Reserve or anything like that and people are comfortable storing their value in BTC and eth as well as using them as some form of money now of course neither BTC or eth are good money for obvious reasons but people still use them as money they use it as a store of value they're comfortable storing their value in these assets for long periods of time that to me is still the number one use case of blockchains to be honest because without blockchains with without a decentralized network you cannot achieve that because there would always be a

centralized coordinator and that would just recreate the existing system we have today with the Fiat systems right so the whole point of uh of these kind of um assets being on a decentralized network is that no one can control them obviously I mean that's obvious to us within crypto um I think the second biggest use case um and one that obviously is not uh a decentralized use case case most of it is is very centralized is just stable coins right US dollar stable coins in particular they are used by so many people I mean outside of BTC and E they would have to be the tokens that are used by far the most right not just for obviously people storing maybe their Savings in it and then like getting a yield on those on those stable coins but also transacting in them paying for things in them using

them as money obviously stuff like that um and especially uh using it uh at other other parts of the world not just the West you know I talked the other day as said about Tron and how people in South America are using it uh how people in U in other places like Asia are using it on BSC Africa all those kinds of places right and that's basically uh the the second biggest product uh within crypto I think um you know it could even be the biggest to be honest but in in terms of like the biggest in terms of what's actively used I think stable coins would be the biggest but in terms of the the biggest kind of I guess if you want to call store value of product that is definitely still bigger if you count betc and ethers the stores of value and people are storing their value

in it um I think that's definitely bigger there and then you basically from there can go down the list of of things the next obvious one to me is defi right building a decentralized uh distributed um permissionless open Financial system for the world built on protocols built on code not built on uh a kind of like just people with you know pulling the pulling um the strings you know not built on the banks as we know them today not built the way the traditional Finance system is built right just a new way to do um uh to to to act with each other through stable coins a new way to trade with each other through things like amm like Unis swap right a new way to um to borrow and lend money all all those sorts of things that that kind of

fall under the defi umbrella here and I think as I said before defi is a kind of a a term that is prob I have a LoveHate relationship with because most of defi is not decentralized and I don't think it materially ever will be but I think that's okay because really the Innovation is on chain Finance just basically recreating the rails for financial applications um and updating them to the Modern Age to to to the digital age so they're Global first right they're based on a network that is decentralized and secure and credibly neutral all those different properties that I've discussed before so those kind of three use cases that I mentioned like the top ones the most obvious ones and then from there you get the long taale and I say the long taale because I don't

really think anything else in crypto has product Market fit if I'm being honest and you could say stable coins fall into defi as well but I think that I like to split those things out because of the fact that when I think of defi I don't just think of like a token for example or like a stable coin I think of the actual infrastructure the actual Financial infrastructure that um is being built like Unis swap like AR like maker you know all those different apps that's what I think of when I think of Defi and then stable coins are definitely distinctly different from that uh and then obviously stores of value money BTC and eth are distinctly different from that but then the long taale comes into it where we have things like nfts crypto gaming uh you know social Finance all these these things

but they're all very very small still they're all very very Niche they're not exactly things that I believe are bringing a lot of value to a lot of people right now I think that they may bring some value to some people but uh for the vast majority of the world they're just not right now and to be fair neither is defi um and uh and maybe I guess like stable coins and BTC and eth but they a lot further along that curve than these other use cases are so if we keep that in mind then we know what we're building you know you know what we we know what we're building it for um but like who are we building it for like who actually needs a store of value like BTC and eth that they want and that they don't um and that's outside of the control of nation states

and they can self custody and all that good stuff there well in my opinion I think everyone on the planet needs that I I don't think that even if you're you know in doesn't matter where you are around the world I think that everyone on the planet has a use for that the same way I think that everyone on the planet has the use for stable coins because everyone has on on the planet has a use for money right for transacting in money and then you you can go to Defi and I think the same is true there everyone has uh use for a financial system whether it's payments whether it's uh doing banking related activities things like that right everyone has a use for that so if you if you kind of take that at at face value then we are building these things for

everyone on the planet it's just that a lot of people I think AR maybe just don't think about these things like I know that a lot of people I know in real life do not think about storing their value in something that isn't a stock or isn't a you know isn't dollars in a bank account or isn't like real estate for example stuff like that they're comfortable with that and that's totally fine like I understand that it's diff a different calculus for different people because if you're in a in an oppressive country or in a third world country you're probably much more AC acutely aware of the fact that your the currency of the your country that you're in may suffer from high inflation or hyperinflation your assets may be seized uh whether that's by the government or whether that's by kind of mercenary groups things like that right so you

you're a lot more acutely aware of of the fact that your property and your property rights are a lot weaker in those environments than they would be in somewhere like uh you know first world Western Nation for example right um so that's why I think those places uh definitely have been embracing crypto as I said South America embracing stable coins um especially I mean uh those places are also embracing BTC and ether and know in Lebanon BTC is quite popular as well because they love uh gold as well turkey I think too so even even though you could consider some of these places um not the ones I just I I mentioned necessarily but like some of these places to be quote unquote first world or developed Nations there is still a need there just depending on the environment that those people are in and

that's where you're seeing the the masses of adoption first because if we're realistically looking at what adoption we've seen in these kind of developed Nations like the US like European you know Western European nations like Australia where I am for example really the majority of people are using these things as speculative Vehicles right like they're not using them uh because they have to they're using them because they want to and that's totally fine I mean there's not there's nothing wrong with that at all and I think that that's a huge upgrade still on on the existing system but when you think about it holistically and you think about the fact that these networks and what we're building here is for a global audience we really are targeting the more than half of the world that doesn't live under those conditions and those people are going to get the most

value out of this so that's what I've mainly been thinking about over over the last few months um especially in the face of the fact that uh people always criticize crypto for not having a use case I think that that's a very privileged view I think that's a view that a lot of people as I said in like Western Nations have because they just don't see how the people that don't live in Western Nations or or don't live in the um you know the I guess like the nice places that we consider to be uh places that respect property rights that don't have hyperinflation you know a lot of people are just very ignorant to that and they just don't understand that over half of the world at least does not live under those conditions and they need an alternative and I think that the the the

prime example I like to use about how the you know this you know the large parts of the world they basically skip ahead when it comes to Tech uh large parts of the world didn't actually ever have dial up or Broadband um they went straight to mobile right they went straight to Wi-Fi they went straight to Cellular networks because there was that technology had already matured to the to that point where it's like well you know these other nations don't need to waste their time with these other things they can just skip straight to straight to Wi-Fi and cellular networks I think the same is true for these nations that don't necessarily have good Financial systems or good currencies or anything like that they can just leap frog that and go straight into defi they can just use stable coins they can just use BTC

and ether as their stores of value right and as I said like you get to do this in a self custodial way you can have your BTC and eth in your own wallet and no one can take that from you um without forcing you to give it up and you know it's not obvious that you even have it to begin with if you just keep it to yourself because uh if someone for example if you're in a place where where as I said like um it's property rights aren't enforced that much or in a place where your chances of getting robbed or or anything like that um are quite High uh if someone comes into your house they're not going to know that you own crypto right unless you're like openly advertising it so that's a really good way to keep your wealth secured because

if they come in and they want to steal other wealth that you have they can see it but when it comes to to crypto uh you can you can securely uh manage that yourself and self custody it yourself and you can bring it with you you know if you're trying to escape War torn countries things like that and you're a refugee or something like that you can bring it with you um I know that may seem crazy to to a lot of people listening because I I I assume that the the majority of the audience of the daily gray is definitely not in that position and definitely probably you know in Western Europe and and the US and and places like that but I think that it's just good to keep in mind that we aren't necessarily building these things for us so to speak in terms of uh

who gets the most value out of it we're building these things for the other half of the world that don't have access to the financial systems that we have access to they don't don't have access to other investment vehicles they don't have access to good currencies like uh the US dollar for example and now they do because they have stable coins right they have PC and ether as their stores of value they have an alternative Financial system they're able to self- custody these assets they don't have to rely on banks they don't have to trust the banks uh in their country where there may you know high risk of a bank run stuff like that so really when you're looking at just the the the use cases that that is it to me those top three that I talked about earlier the store value stuff with BTC and eth the

stable coins and then further to that defi uh built on top of it those are the three things that have seen by far the most demand and have by far the the best product Market fit in crypto and then you have the long tale of stuff that people are experimenting with with right now which is totally fine like I I I I love seeing the experiments but I think that people at some point need to understand that they a lot of these things will just remain experiments a lot of them will remain speculative stuff only they won't add that much fundamental value to people but they're there they exist it's a permissionless network you know we're not going to stop anyone from building um these sorts of things but uh yeah that's just something that I've thought a lot about lately and I forget it was worth sharing with you

guys there but anyway I went overtime here as I normally do uh on that topic let's jump into the rest of the news from the last 24 hours so paraos shared that the girl first girly Shadow Fork happened yesterday you can track along here in this link which I'll link in the YouTube description below uh this Shadow Fork forked girly and enabled the the dencon up upgrade so this is pretty cool because it didn't Shadow Fork main net it Shadow forked gurly and and enabled denune on this Shadow fork and it's been running I guess like fine I mean I don't see any issues here I didn't hear about any issues I don't think paraos said there were really any issues here um but it is a very small Network as he says here denune is is mostly a PTP heavy upgrade and such small Shadow forks will

not give us a realistic view of how the upgrade will affect main Nets but until we start forking test Nets this gives us the best view of the upgrade so do keep that in mind that it is a very limited view of what the upgrade will look like but it's cool to see that this is uh this is happening and I'm sure there's going to be other Shadow Forks as time goes on and on top of that I'm sure we're going to see as we get closer to I guess the end of the year probably some real timing around when the girly test net Fork will happen and then from there doing the other test Nets and then obviously eventually uh main net there but you can go check out this Explorer for the shadow Fork I'll link it in the YouTube description below for you to do

so right budha on Twitter who is the co-founder of the beacon chain website shared an interesting Reddit thread here today from eth Staker that basically uh has a a user here Salin Fe or Salin Fay basically detailed the fact that they were able to get better performance out of their Solo validators or out of their kind of like um uh validators generally on their boxes by switching from the default ntp uh servers that crony uses on Linux to uh Google's ntp servers here so if you don't know know what that means you can go check out this post that explains exactly what this is and why this is important here um but basically he was able or she was able to to inch out a bunch of uh more performance from their validators and

stop missing uh certain attestations here and there because you may see that you you might miss an attestation um you know one or two a day as a solo Staker or if you're a rocker pool Staker anyone running validators basically um and this apparently is a way to fix that and there's actually a a chart here or a graph here showing what this actually looks like before and after and the reason why this potentially fixes it is because uh what crony is it's basically the timekeeper for your Linux box and um you need to be in sync TimeWise with the rest of the network in order to uh make sure that your attestations are included in time and if you're out of sync even for like a minute and you do an attestation then obviously it's going to come in too late and you'll probably

miss that attestation uh because it was it was just too long you your your validator did not attest in time uh there so yeah you can go check out this post for yourself I'll link it in the YouTube description below I did change mine on my solo box and my rocket pool box but we're going to have to see uh I you know I only changed the earlier I'm we're going to have to see if I get any Improvement there um generally I I don't really have uh poor poor performance though to be honest like if I'm looking at my validators right now most of the time it hovers between 98 99% Effectiveness so I will miss an adastation here and there but I'm not like in particular trying to inch out as much performance as possible because missing one or two attestations a day is

not really going to cause me any um any any pain or any cause for alarm or anything like that because it's not really uh you know much of a loss in terms of um in terms of reward or anything so I'm not too concerned but if you're someone who likes to minmax your validator performance then this is something you should definitely check out uh and as I said I'll link it in the YouTube description below for you to do so all right Mark here who works at Sigma Prime Building the lighthouse contensous layer client shared today on Twitter that active addresses on ethereum is at alltime highs if you include rollups um you can Define active addresses as a number of unique addresses that sent or received funds on any of ethereum optimism arbitrum ZK sync or Bass without double counting

addresses that use multiple chains so that's pretty cool to see because as I've said plenty of times before if you're looking at ethereum usage metrics you have to count rollups as well like you can't just look at ethereum layer one anymore you have to look at rollups because the rollups are what is obviously scaling ethereum so just looking at ethereum lay one is not going to give you the full picture here but in saying that I have mentioned before and I think you know I I still strongly believe this that a lot of these metrics are not the greatest way to track usage like active addresses and TPS and transactions per day or those sorts of things generally I don't think that there there's much signal there um especially on rollups where it's cheaper to do things because realistically a lot of these things are Bots right and

there's nothing wrong with Bots but it depends what the Bots are doing and if you're looking for inside into essentially like how many actual humans are using the chain these sorts of things aren't going to show you that and neither is fear Revenue by the way I know I've said before that I think fear revenue is the best metric we have to show overall usage of the chain and I still strongly believe that but if you actually want to get the real numbers of daily active users or weekly active users or monthly active users maybe we should call them humans active humans instead of users but if you want to get those real numbers I would say that it's basically impossible with any sort of accuracy because you have to filter out so many different things you have to make so many different assumptions you

have to use so many different her istics it is basically impossible uh because everyone on the network is anonymous by default like there's no kyc or anything like that even with kyc it could be could be gamed and faked there um but but in saying that as well I think that daily active users or weekly active users is probably the wrong way to look at users of a network simply because that those kind of um metrics are used in web too because it's used to basically sell ads cuz if you can say that we have 100 million you know weekly active users you can say to advertisers well your pool of potential people that you can advertise to is 100 million right and those metrics are also very inflated by the way and and it's very hard to actually know um you know who's unique and who's a bot and they do

usually include bots in that because you know I mean it makes them look better but also it's very hard to filter out but if you're looking at when it comes to like crypto networks I I just don't think that's the the best metric to look at because realistically like I'm not a daily active user of ethereum like I'm not doing a transaction on ethereum or rollups every single day like I'm a pretty active user but I'm not doing it every single day right so I wouldn't be considered a daily active user but uh but based on onchain activity but if you base it on other things like checking positions on Zappa or on your favorite defi protocol you know checking your your the fees that you accured on in a unisoft LP pool um checking on um your your other yield farming activities

checking on nft prices stuff like that then you are an active user of the I guess like ethereum ecosystem but you're not putting anything on chain uh which means that you're not considered an active onchain user so that's why I'm saying it's like it's not the best way to look at things the better way to look at things is is basically to to take all these metrics together and then just to try to paint a picture based on them but still it's very hard like I honestly don't think we're ever going to get a good way to measure actual humans using the chain I think that that people are always going to debate about what's real versus what's not there's going to be a lot of conflicting incentives because obviously people obviously chains that have a lot of I don't know active addresses or or high TPS people are

going to use that to frame that as a positive they're like oh we got so much TPS you know there's so people using the chain when in reality it could just be a few people running a lot of bots using the chain which it almost always is because no one is sitting there every day as a human right um uh most people I shouldn't say no one there are some people who do this but most people are not sitting there every day as a human doing hundreds or thousands of transactions on on any of these Networks that's that's just not happening that's just not realistic because that's not even what happens in the traditional Financial system right how many times do you interact with the traditional Finance system every day right for example if you're uh buying something or buying things like maybe you make like a

few online purchases and a few real life purchases a day you're really just interacting with the payments network uh five to 10 times a day let's just say right and and that's maybe a busy day for you it depends on what type of person you are maybe you don't buy things every day maybe you only buy them every other day but you're not interacting with it that much right and that's for payments that's like the number one use case but then you look at the other things that you do like taking out a mortgage you do that once I mean for most people they do that like once or twice in in their entire lifetimes right uh and then you look at uh how often do you pay your rent right there's a set date on when you pay that that's not happening every day either so but

but but and that's why I'm saying like when it comes to financial systems looking at active users is just not the right way to go about it um but yeah anyway I'm ranting about that now uh you I I've I've talked a lot about that on the ref before so I'm sure you guys are sick of hearing me talk about that but just cool to see this cool to see that someone's actually taken not just ethereum metrics but roll up metrics and kind of put them together because that's what I think we should be doing uh from now on generally all right there is a new layer 2 coming to town and this is a big one a big one in terms of promises reality we'll have to see how it shakes out here but the nil Foundation announced today something called Eagles nil which is a

ZK rollup that they are claiming scales ethereum up to 60,000 plus transactions per second through something they're calling ZK sharding and then they continue it takes modular and monolithic architecture advantages for scaling as it maintains unified liquidity and state while achieving full composability with ethereum now if you read the thread it's buzzword Bingo guys and I've said before that when you see buzzword Bingo you got to be skeptical I'm not saying that this isn't real I'm not saying this isn't something to pay attention to but when you see this many buzzwords in an announcement you know I my kind of like Spidey senses go off and I'm just like okay ZK sharding there's some buzzword you got the ZK buzz word you got the sharding buzzword modular and monolithic more buzzwords right unified liquidity

full composability like these are all the things that we hear about all the time and these are the things that people love to hear about because they're buzzwords they're marketing terms they're things that get people excited right it's what rils up the crowd but if you're looking at it from a fundamentalist perspective you have to kind of look at okay how are they achieving 60,000 TPS like what what what's the security tradeoff here are they storing the data on ethereum or layer one or are they storing the data off chain as it exists today I don't think you can actually do anywhere near that amount of TPS by storing data on ethereum layer one the capacity is just not there for that and then okay you can go through and see what they're doing here they're claiming to be able to do parallel transaction execution which is

actually an innovation that um that salana has that I've been saying that we need to essentially get um into ethereum uh you know as soon as possible because it's actually a really big upgrade so maybe that is what how they're achieving it here uh they obviously using ZK technology and they're using sharding as well so breaking up the the kind of transaction C into different shards but then ultimately I always go back to okay the data availability stuff like where's the data stored where are the proof stored uh and they say here ZK sharting provides ethereum security to its users by saving the primary shards data on ethereum using it as a data availability layer so they've got all these other shards that aren't being stored there it's just it's just the primary Shard that's being stored there so okay what are the trust assumptions there like if

the um uh you know is is that data enough to reconstruct the entire state of that layer 2 for users to get their funds back no matter what like is it not relying on any external parties here then you just have to ask those kind of questions and things like that but generally I'm pretty excited to see this because if any of their claims hold true here and if it doesn't require any significant trade-offs in terms of like security and storing data off chain and stuff like that then it's pretty cool um but at the same time like I I don't really like when these things quote TPS figures because I think like TPS figures are just marketing speak honestly because as I've explained to you guys before there's theoretical TPS and then there's real TPS don't tell me you can do 60,000 TPS show me you can do 60,000

TPS in a live environment don't just show me on test net like test Nets are are not where I want to see this show me on mainnet so until a network can show me that it can do that much TPS real TPS on Main net without falling over without fees you know going going up to astronomical Heights or anything like that um and by processing the transactions as they normally should be processed I'm going to take it as okay you're you know you're promising me this it's just a promise right now until you can prove it I'm not going to believe it because I think that there's a there's a kind of thing and I actually was thinking about this today like and and you guys know this I mean this is my this is my whole thing around narratives versus reality it it costs literally

nothing to spin narratives and the incentive to spin a narrative is so great in crypto because of the fact that it could potentially pump like your bag so to speak right so the cost to spinning a narrative is zero the cost to actually delivering a product and delivering the reality that you're promising is infinite let's say because ethereum has made promises plenty of promises in the past right I mean if you want to look at the promise of proof of stake ethereum made that promise since day one it made that promise since the white paper was published and then it took until December 20120 which was like what six years since the white paper was published to actually achieve that vision and that's the exception not the rule most narratives most stories that are told in crypto are never ever made

reality and it takes a while for the market to price this in because the market loves to price in narratives very quickly but pricing in the reality and and basically giving up on that narrative takes a while especially depending on how hard that narrative is kind of Spun how hard it's pushed how hard it's shielded all that sorts of stuff so just generally when it comes to narrative versus reality you just have to look at the cost the cost of spinning narratives is zero you can go on Twitter as yourself right now and just start spinning whatever narrative you want you can go on Reddit do the same thing go into Discord channels you can go on podcast whatever but actually delivering the reality that costs a lot and I'm not just talking about money I'm talking about like the ACT doing the actual work

um it's a heavy lift whereas uh spinning a narrative you're not lifting anything I mean let's just say you're doing a squat right um like at the squat exercise uh doing your own body weight is is spitting a narrative it's not going to take that much to do it right for for most people you can probably do your own body weight probably do a few reps of that doing like double your body weight doing triple your body weight is not going to happen for people who don't work out if you're just doing it for the first time right that's a heavy lift so to speak and to use the literal term of a heavy lift there so when you think about it like that it's a it's just a cost analysis and that's how I think about these things so not to take away from the announcement here from the Neil

Foundation but as I've said I've SE I've seen plenty of these announcement announcements before I've seen lots of promises lots of these buzzwords until things are actually delivered I'm not going to gush about them I'm not going to say this is awesome you know this is going to change the world blah blah blah because I think at this point in my crypto Journey I'm so over the narratives I'm so past the narratives I just want to see the realities now and I want to stick to the realities as much as possible so that I don't mislead anyone so that I don't make Grand promises to anyone because there's too much narrative spinning in crypto not enough reality spinning I guess so to speak and I want to be that counterbalance I want to be the guy who's just talking reality as much as I can and and and and avoiding as many of

the narratives as I can because it's just so tired at this point and I'm tired of it after being in crypto for so long but anyway I'm ranting again and wow I'm almost at 30 minutes already just a few more things to get through here so op Labs officially announced the first post Bedrock Network upgrade today called Canyon I have spoken about this a bit on the refill before but the cool thing about this is that this upgrade is ready to hit the test Nets on November 14th so only under a week from now the canyon hard Fork will be hitting uh test Nets and you can read all about it in this blog post link it in the YouTube description below I don't know if this in this upgrade as it exists now includes um the changes that are coming with uh with denune I think it just

includes the changes that were included in Shanghai and capala and capala which was the um the withdrawals fork in April but I believe they're going to do an upgrade to support denune at some point as well as I've discussed before but anyway you can check this out I'll link this in the YouTube description below uh moving on last bit of L2 news here today was something a project that I came across something called witness chain so they've introduced something called the witness chain Watchtower Network which is they're calling the first line of defense for rollups basically what this is is a u Network that ensures secure L2 growth by deriving cryptoeconomic security from igen layer so you know I've talked about how with igen layer you can build things like Oracle networks data availability networks well

you can also build Watchtower networks that basically allows um uh different nodes in the network to raise alarms about disputes in optimistic rollups for example where if they see that there's a fraud dispute they can raise the alarm and say okay well people need to look at this and and and and the fraud dispute game needs to be played here and then you can do this in decentralized and distributed way and not just rely on one person watching it because if you just rely on one person watching it or one team watching it that's a point of failure so you want to obviously create a network around this to create a network of people that are all watching it and it's kind of that thing of who watches the watches right or who watches the rollups who watches the optimistic rollups well this is what witness ch is

is creating here so very cool new project here leveraging IG layer you can um check this out for yourself I'll link it in the YouTube description below for you to do so all right just wanted to give a quick shout out here to the ethereum.org effort I was asked in the Discord channel to shout out their uh to to shout out the ethereum.org Discord Channel if you go to their website and basically scroll down to the bottom here I believe the link is at the bottom but you know what I'm also going to link this in the uh uh the the the the um the YouTube notes below and you can check that out there but yeah if you want to get involved with ethereum.org just talk to like-minded people the ethereum.org Discord channel is great you can go check that out there uh but also the

daily way Discord channel of course as well if you want to check that out but I just wanted to shout out that one there and last up here uh it was great today I actually went and recorded in in-person podcast with the guys over at Collective shift so you can see here Ben Berg and Matt from Collective shift we're all in like a a a kind of Studio here recording studio here we recorded for about an hour and a half I think talking all things crypto ethereum investing all all that good stuff uh and that that one will be going live uh Tuesday uh next week so Tuesday actually Australian time next week I'll be sure to link that for you guys in the Discord Channel and in and highlighted on the refu as well next week but yeah the reason why I wanted to

shout this out as well as because it's just so fun having inperson conversations guys like I've been talking to my friends about this a lot recently about how we are always so online that we forget just how good it is to have just a face t- face conversation with people about crypto like sure we have face to-face conversations with people in our real life about non- crypto things and that's all well and good but the majority of our conversations at least for me is about crypto is online like 99% of it is online um and then when you go and have a conversation in in real life with about crypto with someone it's just so different it's so much friendlier so much more constructive you can have a Nuance conversation you can agree and disagree with with each other without on each other without throwing

crap at each other without uh other people piling in and and it becoming a spectacle you can just have great conversations and I think as I've said before I I want to keep doing more of this like so much more of this because it just offsets the crap that I think uh you know myself and a lot of you probably deal with uh seeing every day on places like Twitter and other public spaces where people are definitely not acting like uh like rational people they're definitely acting irrationally acting as a as a kind of like just pump my bags guys uh kind of mentality there but yeah anyway uh that episode will drop Tuesday I'll uh link it in the refu when it does but I think on that note that's going to be it for today's episode so thank you everyone for listening and watching be sure to

subscribe to the channel if you haven't yet give it a thumbs up subscribe to newslet join the Discord Channel and I'll catch you all tomorrow thanks everyone