Why Movement Is Going All in On MoveVM

Transcript

why is that damn bot always responding to me on Twitter bro I think just like the United States is a bad example and like like backlash were people upset about what you learn from that where you are now feedback results welcome to igen lay unlocked an interactive educational Journey Through the Igan L ecosystem created by technical Founders and builders for the entire crypto Community a special thank you to our partners allir polymer authentic skate and lrange for helping to make this happen our goal is to raise the collective knowledge of the Igan lir ABS ecosystem and unpack the technical designs of the top teams in space welcome to igen layer

unlock G move yes G move G move G move why is that damn bot always responding to me on Twitter bro it's not even me it's like this app called move with friends yeah um they're a Taiwanese team and they built this app this bot like four months ago so anytime someone says move or to move or movement it automatically responds I'm telling you this is airdrop Alpha rushi can say it but if you say G move on Twitter Jack you're GNA get you're gonna get rewarded rousi don't say anything here please M sh I me baby yes sir K yes so wait what's that phone then there's like a phone that I saw you post it was like a movement phone or something so there's a team called op Network that is doing essentially a decentralized mobile

network so the biggest one of the biggest use to deep in is coordinating um devices right and what's the biggest device that we all have is mobile phones so it's really interesting is that they're not only working like Walt and Native defi apps and moving apps built into phone but also each phone actually runs as a node um whether it's light node for verifying da or um eventually running a sequence of nodes potentially um so that it's very interesting concept obviously it's like you're competing with Apple and Samsung the bigger players but um they already sold $5 million with the phones um so like I think there's a lot of demand I would say even like where we are right now like southeast Asia where people are using crypto apps for airdrop farming or other use cases um and look at Sal Saga

right like that phone sold out because people were like okay I buy this phone I will get rewards x y and z um but I think like because we're still never really launching there's a lot of opportunity for people for especially this region to use the crypto ecosystem um and eventually a moving system especially like like in Singapore right we we're at it's interesting because you don't have to have like you know it's not like the US right where which is a bazillion square miles like if it's if it's dependent on physical location like it could be a lot more deeper penetration yeah I mean G just tweeted about this yesterday like if you grab today like you can put USD like usdc and pay for everything usdc on grab I saw that cryp you can pay for wallet you can

pay no you can pay for Ubers like pretty much anything with usdc is it ethereum Sal it's Bitcoin Bitcoin ethereum Sal like it's crazy right so it's like and like because we I'm from the states and like no one care use crypto per se because we have Financial systems that work you go to Argentina onethird of Argentina uses crypto right you can talk about Latin America and this what we talked about before but like Latin America sou these Asia where we are in Singapore they use crypto every day so like and they also use Android phones like obviously in the states like use Android phones like oh you're shamed right because they get green text messages dude green text green I personally will never use Android like that girl is not going to respond to you on text I wouldn't resp if you text me

the green text I would not respond to you damn bro damn green text it's like if you have Android you get green text cuz it's like you guys use IM message brother brother IM message is like the biggest thing in in the US it's the states it's the States you use WhatsApp right yeah WhatsApp yes yeah WhatsApp do yeah so we're like Americans we don't do that we have we use IM message but we're the problem we're clear more people use WhatsApp WhatsApp and telegram across the world definitely So to that extent like Androids are actually probably better than iPhones because the performance better and like you can have cooler like app stores and stuff so the real play is like mobile markets overseas what's interesting too to think about some of the Integrations and like mentioning latam I know in Colombia

there are kind of payment apps that will have like the wallet section similar to grab and I don't think people talk about that very much kind of like a crypto integration leading to onboarding to crypto rails you know people talk about kind of like crypto native apps and then you know web 2 apps and the kind of merger of that is an interesting recipe for onboarding yeah I think people look at it too much as like a like eat like let's eat the other apps and make like the next best Facebook onchain or something why don't we just put onchain into Facebook you know what I'm saying or put the put the chain into the Uber right well like for Facebook thing we tried right that's a whole moo thesis that we'll get yeah yeah I've never heard of move I've never heard of G move

G move yeah I think it's like it's more easier said than done right getting Crypt like Facebook tried to do in like you can't do that right well like grab is like made from design to be a crypt native and stuff like that and there's a lot of like lobbying Singapore for that so I think just like the United States is a bad example and like anywhere else like people actually use stable coins and like use these things cu the currencies are really bad I love the US for the record I United States is the greatest country in the world but I love the us he has got his Visa good things G move move gve US Government dude I to talk about your kind of being a like like the face of movement um kind of you know you've been you've been tweeting a

lot you you go out and publicly you know you know rant and then I fight you know Jill from espresso about shared sequencing and like you have strong opinions on on like the way blockchain should be designed um curious like how you find either just like the time in your schedule or just kind of your routine that allows you and any advice that you have for other Founders as as far as like how to have an opinion on Twitter how to you know kind of grow this community and um you know what it means to be a leader of of the movement Community I think the best analogy is crypto is like politics where each chain e system is a country right um and the founder in the face is a politician fundamentally um I don't like the

country example at all just that's fine that's fine I'll fight but this is why this this is my job to like fight you on this and tell you that you're wrong um but anyways like like my job is to like obviously have a community to take it all and like deliver for my community but also prove why my country is the best and why every other country sucks um so that's why on Twitter or like on social Brands a lot of the founders you look across the board like to is still like for the last five years has been fighting ethereum every day even the depths of the bare Market when Sal was at $7 when Sal was like ripping same arguments of like high through put mon environments um so I think today like that's what every founder model is where like whether it's yourself as a leader

as well as your team you're all fighting for your thesis um and you have to wake up every day and like even schedule like I'm just like okay anytime a thought comes into my head I try to tweet it just like put out a thought um anytime I see something stupid on Twitter I disagree with I will go at it um obviously there things how to do like you don't I don't like be inflammatory where it's like you are wrong screw you m better than you I think it's better to have open form discussion so like with espresso share sequen you know was like espresso is one of the best research groups in crypto hot shot's amazing like a deep respect for Jill and espresso team but I disagree with the go to market shared sequencers so I think as like when I'm bringing up on Twitter I'm

be like look I like the tech I think I like the team here's where I disagree with the go to market um and I think most people generally agree with me in that sense yeah I mean I think like the thing that i' I've respected the most about your character is that you're very young so you know that you have a lot to learn but when you are either either like proven wrong or there's a counter argument that has validity you take it understand it accept it and then like you know either apply some advice or just generally like understand where there's an other side of the opinion which I think is going to serve you well yeah I mean like we did some like R and like people like it's a side chain and I'm like oh dude you got toasted I got toasted by tog tog hold I mean did he

put He threw you the shreds yeah I mean like also like I don't really care about definitions I'm like okay this makes sense and then valal comes back and he's like you should call this fast you should care about definitions a bit though yeah yeah so then I was like okay let's take it take back the drawing board and then we went back and call it confirmation like okay this makes sense uh this is how we're going to redefine it so like ultimately I'm going to make mistakes and like this me knowing clater that I like I'm not a researcher I'm not a PhD like there's people smer than me so I acknowledge that yeah for sure so movements on test net now um there's I mean I don't know I've seen some numbers there's a lot of transactions happening but I also know that you went through

like trials and tribulations with that and um maybe you felt like you you know the launch didn't go as you wanted or the experience for some users was kind of like iffy I don't know man just talk us through what you learned from that and kind of that process of of improving it where you are now feedback results well I think most like major chain test Nets will go down have issues to launch like like the first bear test net went down and they had to do a V2 um and I think like for us as like when we launched like we had 42 apps go live Day Zero so like the the biggest issue we learned was like like our chain was fine our platform was fine but like when you have apps themselves that have their own quests and their rules the users had

issues with the apps which then they blame the chain for which I'm like I didn't expect that to happen because it's like if I if there's a DEX that has an issue you don't blame salana for it right but I think when you're launching a testet you're responsible for the user experience overall so I think one thing that we can go back and do day Zero better was like have a better QC for all the apps that are deploying because it's a permission assessment right if you build a DEX and you want to listed on the test you can do that um but like if you're have like a broken front end like I'm not going to like verify that your front end works because it's a permissionless system like we have like 10 dexes right um but I think that's something that we should have hon down

better but I think now it's like gotten to a point where it's pretty clear user experience um the main thing that we implemented after week one was like after every time there's a new app that submits an application we have to review the entire front end review all the quests if there's like tested like four or five times and then we also have like a select community group so it's like around 20 community members that review every single App application and they be like okay this button doesn't work properly or this galaxy thing doesn't work properly I think one thing that we also R into issue is that we were using a questing platform um because like there's a lot of like like onchain quests and offchain quests um and we broke the platform thre it back and forth and all that stuff yeah we had

like I think it was like 20 million uh in the first day so it broke the actual questing platform so when you're relying on third party providers it's not like we could have built that internally if you had more time um so I think like that was learning stuff to start off with but I think it stabilized after week two and now the user experience PR straightforward um we have pretty good quality control now plus ultimately like test net right like how mad I mean I don't know if you experienced like backlash were people upset about I I didn't see it much I think it's like it people people were like like usually like they ask like like questing CU one thing when we launched there was a lot of quests because let's say for example it's 40 apps on testnet each has like five quests like swap or like play this

game that's 200 quests it's it's not because we had 200 Quest just there's so many apps that each have their own quests so naturally to a new user coming moving they're like move has 200 quests and I was like no no no we don't have 200 quests they have so I think uh one thing I think I did really well is that we kept listenting feedback so like I was like I think I post like maybe 20 times a day for like the first two weeks of test it I was like okay here's the feedback here's what we're going to do one of the biggest things that users had was like obviously users are using test airdrop right so they felt like I have to do all 200 quests which is like slave mentality or like they felt uh like that's not the best compared test you

want like relatively low lift right according to retail users for sure we can argue if that's better or worse but that's the what general sentiment is like have a very like minimal um requirement to access future incentives right so one thing I did right the G is like you only need to do 10% of Any Given Guild which which we call it so that made a lot of people feel better because they don't have to do 200 quests they do 20 um so like I didn't expect there to be that many apps honestly and that many quests so it's like a blessing in a curse um so I think there's always going to be a little like I think every major protocol has this um but I think one thing we did really well is responding in real time I can see a tattoo on your hand it

says mm oh mm I I okay okay initially I thought it was Mega movement or metam mask why would it be Mega movement or metamask why would give a t the first sh I had like Mega movement future of aan L ladies and gentlemen right here yeah also I would not get metam tattoed phant RAB actually now now that I see it this mm movement no it's MMI 2002 oh yeah my question for you guys though is how are you going to get a wallet to work on like how am I going to go from like my typical experience on evm to interacting with move on the Move VM yes so we have

a move evm so it's even compatible interpreter on mve VM so you can use mam mask on test right now okay um you can use mamass as well as our native wallets and on Main net as well yep and then what about like some of these account abstraction Focus wallets as doesn't you know doesn't really matter like particle particle or one balance or near whatever it is I think we're talking about particle integration right now um it's a little more of a custom build uh because it's a good move evm so it takes some time for that but and what about interrup that's another big big concern of mine is like it takes it's a lift to to go from evm to different VM how are you guys going to tackle that we'll have later Zer off the bat um we're announcing that shortly as well as like

IBC Union okay that's exciting but I think what's interesting with intop is within the E system itself that's the point of shared sequencer the biggest issue with rollups today is like yes you can argue the one big rollup is going to win but the issue is that there's every wants to be a big rollup you have a Basse you have like arbital optimism and you have a bunch of these new robs cing market so there are going to the future is going to be multi multichain um so how do you get Atomic int between rollups um and share sequencing was designed to do that where let's say for example I'm a yield agur rollup like G um and I want to bring in TV off for moveing L2 as well as other l2s right now I need to use like layer zero or Wormhole which has like clients on each

l2s which is pretty slow instead uh layer zero could put a like CL of shared sequence which is our M1 and then introp directly um also we're also working on like um staking requirements so you can have state state finale guarantees so if I'm ar tring your optimism the biggest issue with rups right now is State finality guarantees right um not transaction finality which most sequen are working on so what if there's a world where I can have multi token staking where I'm marbit put million do with ARB down you're optimism you put a million do op down gge puts a million doll of a polygon down if anyone's lying but St we get slashed um so I think that's one of the use cases of ABS design so um we're working through that now you mentioned like uh the kind of thesis you have that there won't be

necessarily one winning rollup Y what does like winning to you look like in that case uh use cases like apps that people use right uh I think like in terms of ethereum basically the charge here where base actually has consumer ass because they're trying to touch to coinbase um but I think like most ethereum l2s are losing the battle to salana today because even in def5 salana def5 is a lot better than ethereum D5 today it's much quicker I me you can argue that Salon liquidity is less but now like tvl and Salon is kind of reaching there right um maybe might surpass in the future um so thesis is like Salon has really like really good experience has liquidity has all the apps has the Pumped off funds that

people use retail Traders are pretty much all in Sal right now maybe a little bit on base um so the question is how does etherum that battle pack and the first step is user experience where you don't have to wait 7 days for finale you don't have to have like 10 TPS that goes down the Cent sequencer shuts down um I think ethereum needs to come back and all VM are lead the future I'm bullish thanks for coming on appreciate man been a pleasure cheers Jack guys Cheers Cheers