Why most Ethereum Layer 2s may not survive

Transcript

There is a lot more competitive force among the layer twos that would basically require consolidation and some of them unfortunately would not survive. What's up everybody? It's LG Ducat here and welcome to the Milk Road Show, the daily crypto show where the market never sleeps. Your portfolio definitely does and somehow everyone still thinks we are early. Today is January 9th, 2025. We're recording this on the morning of January 8th, but I don't know if the prices will change that much in the 24 hours before you listen to this. For most of crypto's life, it's been a story of violent booms, brutal busts, and people confusing volatility with progress. But lately, something is kind of starting to feel a little bit different, right?

Fewer fireworks, a lot more infrastructure, and a lot more suits. Quietly paying attention. Ellie Dingga is the global head of research and founding venture partner at 21 Shares. And he spends his time exactly at that intersection, studying where crypto stops being a trade and maybe starts becoming a much bigger part of the global financial system. and he's going to tell us all about their predictions and their outlook for 2026 going into this month. Today's episode is brought to you by Reserve ETFs, the onchain equivalent of ETFs chain link links web 3 to Wall Street and bridge send stable coin payments instantly simple, global and fictionfree. Uh Ellie, what's going on man? Welcome to Milk Road.

>> LG, thank you for having me. This is great to be here. >> Oh, I'm excited to talk to you, man. Because in your report, okay, in the 21 shares report, there is a headline in there. I was looking at it this morning that I have not I have not seen this kind of take. We talked we we talked to a lot of people that are ETF uh issuers on the show especially this week but I have not seen somebody write as something that's happening in 2026 that most Ethereum scaling solutions will not survive 2026. What do you mean by that? What are you guys talking about when you say that? I think I think the uh the title itself is pretty self-explanatory but more precisely you know what we want to say here is that uh very similar to multiple venture capital uh verticals either in

crypto as well consolidation could happen and will likely happen especially around layer 2s and the reason is because crypto has moved away from building up the infrastructure that was incredibly slow right uh just like five 10 or even 50 transactions per second so like the dialogue phase of the internet to now bandwidth where essentially we can have consumer applications that really feels like web two, right? So the infrastructure right now is ready for prime time. But what matters is no longer the infrastructure but go to market and we're in a go to market phase where we have to cross a chasm and reach the crypto infrastructure and the consumer applications to billions of people. And that requires a different game than just building up the

infrastructure and wait and see whether cryptonative users or even like our parents would be excited about that. Right now it's about how do we integrate with rails where people are already using right so how do we integrate to financial services that are existing today or the net new ones in the future like neo banks um and there are multiple chains right now that are trying to really attempt to convey that right um there's canton there is tempo from paradigm so that means that there is a lot more competitive force among the layer twos that would basically require consolidation and some of unfortunately would not survive.

>> So Ellie, basically what you're telling me is that we're going to see a consolidation most likely of scaling solutions. By scaling solutions, do you mean layer twos as some layer 2s and layer 1's get chosen to be the rails of the global finance system and others who wanted that maybe don't? Is that is that what you're saying? >> That's exactly that. You're incredibly spot on. Um I truly believe that some layer 2 are not going to gain traction. um they would need to pivot, they would need to reinvent themselves. We've seen that as well in the past with multiple companies even traditional finance like Nokia for example that you know technically lost uh in the phone uh industry but then was able to reinvent

itself for providing infrastructure and data services data center services to hyperscalers and AI right so I believe that uh layer 2 because there is a proliferation of layer 2s in the market a lot of them are not going to unfortunately have a very good time to find users is because of course uh it's a very competitive space. >> That makes sense. Yeah. I think is this is this a good or a bad thing for Ethereum. >> I think and I don't necessarily mean price. I don't mean price. I just mean in general for what Ethereum is and what it wants to be. Is this good that some of its, you know, solutions, some that maybe were not as viable longterm, uh, are

kind of die off and and you have a like a more consolidated ecosystem. >> The long story short, I would say this is good for Ethereum because Ethereum changed the angle of his road map focusing just on layer 2 from, you know, 2020 to up to 2024 and now trying to make the base layer more accommodating for uh, the end users. And that's why we've seen one of the largest deployment of contracts on FIMM. So new applications in Q4 last year. I think it was up by a,000% in just a quarter which definitely is unprecedented thanks to uh one of the latest upgrades that really helped Ethereum to reduce the the fees right uh because of course historically

FM had a problem around very high transaction cost. So long story short, yes, this is a good thing for Ethereum and I think there is a bright future potentially for that. >> Milk Road is hiring a head of product. If you've built real products and you think like an owner and you want full control over tools, research, and community used by millions of investors, this role is for you. Check the link below and apply today. So there are a lot of we we're listen Ellie, we are an investment show. >> You can't give investment advice. We don't give investment advice but we discuss uh what people who are trying to are looking at this market and listening to people like you. We do discuss how they should view these things and maybe what kind of information this they

should listen to and where they should be looking. >> Yeah, >> the L2 landscape is massive. You have exchange-based L2s that probably have a good chance of surviving, right? Like Coinbase is not going to let bass just die off and they've already done quite well with it. You have Mega ETH that is coming out imminently that is supposed to have this this hypers speed the latest L2 that that maybe has a good chance to to get into kind of the pantheon of of the top ones. >> How do we visualize this landscape though? That's just my take. How do we visualize this landscape of L2s as investors or as people that are just kind of you know looking at the market and wondering what to do?

This is a phenomenal question and I think for I think for investors it depends who they are and what's their investment style. Meaning by if you are a long-term investor you're going to pay more attention to fundamentals. You're going to pay attention to the user growth. You're going to pay attention to the developer growth. You're going to pay attention to the revenue as well of the layer 2 that they are making. Um and then most importantly the last thing that you should see as a as a fundamental investor is to understand whether an application built in a layer 2 cannot be built somewhere else. Um so if there is uniqueness in a layer two then it becomes incredibly exciting and interesting from a differentiation perspective right but then for a hedge

fund for a short-term investor that really looks just at the volatility uh and the price and the discre the discrepancy of uh the volumes across multiple venues definitely I think this is a different ball game and they will be looking more at momentum they will be looking more at sentiment analysis um And I think these are the key metrics that both, you know, fundamental investors and hedge funds or short-term investors would look differently because, of course, this is a different trade and a different time horizon. But I truly believe that for for both investors, they're able to to find potential alpha. But of course, the alpha may not be always in the public markets for the layer 2. Some of them are in the private markets, for example,

like Tempo or even Bass don't have a token yet, but of course they do have coin stock. So I think it depends again on the investment itself and the time horizon for the investors. >> You did the section in in in your report from 21 shares right after the Ethereum bit is that uh regulated ICOs become a mainstream capital market. What like I feel like most major ICOs these days are scaling solutions, right? Like Mega ETH is a good example. Monet the first one uh to come out on Echo after it was after it was acquired by Coinbase. So what do we look for on the you know on the capital market in the ICO market this coming year because there are going to be many right Coinbase didn't do that

just for fun just to launch one chain if we're if are we looking for scaling solutions or are we looking for something else >> I think I think there will always be innovation at the infrastructure layer but I think for the last 15 years the crypto space has raised $15 billion even more billions of dollars to invest in infrastructure to make sure that we understand okay which blockchains, which layer ones are going to work, which ones are going to attract uh more users, which ones are going to be a lot more scalable, right? Uh we talked about all the time in 2021 the trilma for how do you actually not sacrifice decentralization, attract users, a soul for security and scaling, right? So I think at the end of

the day, we've had multiple papers and experiments around that. So I think that trade is almost behind us. Now it feels like you know 2003 for the internet in crypto. 2003 means that we are ready to get a lot more of the Amazons and the Googles of the world in crypto. So applications on top of TCP IP so the internet protocol rather than trying to build the next internet protocol right so I believe for the ICO market for the investors looking at that and of course for the listeners this is not financial advice right but uh what I'm trying to say is that the consumer applications are going to be the exciting vertical that investors would have to pay

attention to and this is where I believe the next uh you know 10x and 100x are going to be more um especially in these private markets uh accessible uh through the application verticals and to be honest market has been one of the best examples of a successful application building on top of blockchain rails while your mom and my mom can actually look at these applications without realizing that they're actually leveraging blockchain technology which is really powerful. >> I'm sure I'm sure our moms definitely want to bet on when Taylor Swift is going to have a baby.

>> My mom has been using market actually to follow the the US election, right? So you don't >> Oh, there you go. Yeah. Yeah. God, I hope I I'm in Canada. I hope there's no like Justin Trudeau, Katy Perry, poly market. This is such a story I never want to hear anything about. Anyways, okay, we're totally off track. You're telling me a story about how apps are what we want to watch in the capital market. And I agree, right? Like that's that's definitely something that I hope we're going to see a lot more of. And and that's definitely like a potential for 1000x, right, for for for investors and maybe a lot of retail investors can get in using these platforms. Um, but another major theme from the past year that you you guys sound kind of bearish on going into the year is DATs, digital

asset treasuries, right? And you've said you've said that many of these I believe will probably fail or blow up. What's the current state of DATs, man? I know a lot of them are below their MNAV right now, but if if if we have a bullish Q1, will that not kind of save a lot of them? I think there is potential uh tailwinds and I think the fact that for example Msei um stopping to exclude potentially micro strategy is definitely a tailwind for you know that but I truly believe that there are multiple vehicles today to have access to crypto right you got exchanges you've got OTC desk you've got crypto ETPS and ETFs um and I think the fact that we've had the best ever

launch of cryp of ETFs ever right that was specifically for Bitcoin is I think the writing on the wall um and it helps the investors to understand that there was pentum demand for an asset class that was not available in the financial system in in crypto so that are a very different trade than crypto ATPs or crypto ETFs right it's a lever bet on an underlying assets uh because you have exposure to the equity of a underlying company that accumulates creates more BTC. Of course, the floor right from the for an investor, the floor of these u products is basically the assets and the management. How many BTC for example

they have in custody or how many Ethereum they do have in custody or Solana. However, um there is also the market movements to your points of uh the stock itself MNAV and some of them are actually negative today. So this is actually tough news for the equity holders. It means that debt would need to be raised. They need to probably sell also their underlying assets. So there is a lot of risks around that. These are not levered raises I would say where they're using basically like uh you know leverage to to buy bitcoin or any other assets. But what I would say is that there will be a consolidation across that because if you have MNAF below below one then it means that investors can actually buy Bitcoin at a discount

or actually acquire Bitcoin at a discount uh for a specific company. Right? So I think that eventually that would lead to consolidation that could lead to even governments uh being interested to acquire Bitcoin at a discount compared to the spot price. So I think that's an interesting space to keep an eye on. But I would say liquidity and pentup demand is more on crypto ETFs especially in the United States of America and also in Europe rather than the pentup demand for buying that. >> Is isn't an ETF a lot safer than a DAT?

Right? Like isn't that because does that not make sense or or an ETF is more like a direct access to the actual asset, right? versus the DAT. It's like, well, it's a company that's trying to manage their purchase of the assets, but if they go under, they have to do all this stuff that you're talking about. I feel like at this point in time, it makes way more sense to buy an ETF than the DAT if you are just a, you know, I'm talking like myself, right? What's your take there? >> No, I agree. Uh and of course this is not financial advice and the audience may think that uh you know as the Google head of research and a crypto asset manager of course you would say to ETFs but technically if you're looking at a one-on-one exposure to Bitcoin uh either you go directly uh because you want to

hold yourself under the mattress with the ledger or any of the cold storage solutions or if you don't trust yourself to have anything under the mattress then you would choose potentially a crypto ETF within your bank and brokerage account so that you and basically have exposure to assets like Bitcoin and then your Apple stocks, your Nvidia stocks and any other uh assets that you're interested about, right? So, I think um it's a different trade. That's what I want to say. I think it's more of a risk on and riskier trade on the spectrum to invest that compared to investing in crypto ETFs or directly. ETFs provide investors with a structured, disciplined, and diversified approach to crypto, which is cool, but the world is

moving on chain. We need a crypto native equivalent. That's exactly what Reserve's decentralized token folios bring to the table. Reserve ETFs are rule-based baskets of crypto assets packaged into a single token like Coin Market CMC 20, crypto's version of the S&P 500. Go to milkroad.com/reserve to find out what's on offer. Sure, tokenized financial products are the future, but there is a big sticking point. They all need to speak to each other. This is a tough problem to solve. But chain link does exactly that. It's the universal language for financial markets, linking Wall Street to web 3, banks to blockchain, and so much more.

See how chain link is linking the world by going to milkroad.com/chainlink. That makes sense. Yeah. Um I I I I do realize that you you can only speak so much to these things. You are largely an expert in your company in what institutions are doing, right? Those are the kind of products you guys develop. This kind of stuff that you research. Everything in the report is telling us that every all these all these classes are going to grow. Stable coins are going to go from 300 billion. You guys are saying to a trillion dollars by the end of the year. Uh DeFi, TVL is going to hit 300 billion. Uh there's a few others here. There's RWA's tokenized assets will also get to half a trillion dollars. Right. One name that I'm seeing a lot these these days Ellie and and I've been curious to dig into it more on

the show is Canton Network right and this is an L1 but they seem to be in the news so much lately as this preferred kind of rail for Wall Street. Can you tell us a little bit about there about a little bit more about that? You guys do reference them in your report as one of the main kind of pathways for the institutions to get their token their all their stuff onchain. What's your take on canel? No, this is a great observations and I think you know LJ you've done a phenomenal job at reading our research. So appreciate the time. Uh absolutely and I invite also the audience to check out our research after after this episode. But we mentioned Kenton specifically because of the number one institutional backing that

they have um to be able to build this layer one but also the design of the technology itself. Um as you heard over the past 15 years mutual banks and asset managers have been looking at tokenization. Um this is not a new phenomenal uh right they they've been looking at that very specifically trying to build their own experiments with their own blockchains. So before 2015 it was more not Bitcoin but yes to private blockchains. And after FM came out, especially after the ICO boom, after uh the DeFi boom in 2021, we've seen that institutions have been comfortable with a hybrid model. They have been

comfortable to to try tokenizing specific assets and strategies on public blockchains, right? We've seen that first of all with the um European Central Bank launching a tokenized bond back in 2020 which was unprecedented uh especially from a very large institution like that uh on the FM blockchain. But then we also have seen institutions being more comfortable with private chains right so building on top of public infrastructure but privately so that they can control the integrity of their use cases. Uh we've seen that for example with the rise of avalanche subnets and of course what I'm talking about is not financial advice but Kenton has been able to build um almost like a

product that merges the two where you have privacy on the public technology and institutions can feel more comfortable with control uh they can feel more comfortable with most subsequently integrity around their uh their customers as well. Most of the experiments on the Kenton network of course are proof of concepts but I think as more institutions that tried in the past to build their own blockchains and we've seen that with JP Morgan for example as recently as I think last week they actually mentioned that they're going to launch their JP Morgan coin also on the Kento network. All right so it shows again that there were experiments in the past building your own blockchain. Okay, Bitcoin not Bitcoin but yes to private blockchains

and then they realize that public blockchains are real. They realize that public blockchains are the TCP IP of the world but for a value transfer and now they actually also want to have privacy and I think that's why privacy has been a very exciting topic. We've seen of course the rise of Zcash over the last year and I truly believe that uh privacy should be a solved problem and Kenton is well positioned to be institutional ready institutional friendly and then also allow them to poke around with private proof of concepts so that for example if you are Morgan Stanley and JP Morgan tokenizing on Kenton you don't want to basically share the specific information on how the best practices

would be to you know, billions of dollars raised, right? You really want to protect that in intellectual uh property, right? So that's why usually investors were not always very comfortable with public networks. Uh but I think all the road maps that I've seen so far are going in the right direction to solve that specific problem. >> That's a really good explanation of what Canton is and why the demand is coming. That's something I we've needed that on the show. So that's that's very helpful. Thank you for explaining that, Ellie. U let's get to something a little sexier, honestly. Like this is all good institutional talk. We talk a lot about institution stuff, but at the end of the day, man, like I just checked. Bitcoin's still sitting at 91,000. Okay, everyone listening to the show, we all have these bags. We've all been waiting to go to

Valhalla. We thought we were getting there when we're like early October. It's been 3 months. Things suck. Things started the We started the year well, but we're still kind of stagnating. You guys are telling me that the four-year cycle is broken. But what does that mean? Does that actually mean a bullish 2026? >> I think it does. It does mean also most importantly that the asset has matured so much. Um and that crypto no longer is dictated uh in movement by the hing which is whenever the supply gets cut in half every four years since 2009 actually now demand through uh financial services and financial products like crypto ETFs for

example is going to drive the price um and is going to be a key indicator of the pent-up demand for allocating into Bitcoin and of course you know uh Bitcoin on exchange also is very important because people buy directly. People also get them directly on their cold storage solutions. But what we're saying today is that when you look at the historical data every 2 years after the haling there was a bail market. Um and you can pinpoint since 2009 that whenever the haling happened about 24 months later we actually had a draw down. But the draw downs were explained differently. The draw the draw downs happened because we had potentially a

hack or we had a fraud like for example FTX but also we had multiple frauds before like even Bitconnect uh for the OG's in uh in the audience or we also had regulatory crackdowns as we've seen for example amongst the u you know the Gary Gensler uh you know administration but also even in the past as well against specific tokens that really drove uh the liquidity down and Then the last thing that really drove bare markets uh were also the microeconomic decisions by the Federal Reserve and you could pinpoint at specific points whether it was 2018 or 2022 when the global economy but especially the US

economy was going through quantitative tightening where basically the rates were going up and as such you know the valuation of any assets especially risk on assets significant ificantly came down because now the cost of debt uh increases in tandem with the rise of the interest rates. Right? So what we've seen so far is that the these were the common denominators of driving a bare market whether it was a hack whether it was a uh specific uh regulatory crackdowns monetary policy uh to tighten uh the economy because probably of like for example rising inflation rates and then the last thing that happened also was fraud right but right now when you

look at especially October 10th the last crash that we've seen which was the largest liquidation event in crypto. We haven't seen anything that was structural and common compared to the past bare markets. And that's why usually you have corrections where the price of Bitcoin goes down by more than 20% from the previous all-time high but just for a few months. And then you've got like the crypto renters that we call the long-term bare markets that last about, you know, usually two and a half years, right? And the long bare markets are the ones that are really driven by either fraud, either uh you know crackdowns, monetary policy or anything like that. Uh but right now we haven't

seen that and that's why we believe that this uh cycle is broken because we have yet to see that. Uh there are some risk in the market and you've seen that with the United States of America going after the president of Venezuela, Maduro. But again, Bitcoin has not reacted as essentially an asset that would not be safe. People actually consider Bitcoin as an international neutral and a global asset that they can actually invest in as an emerging store of wealth. So long story short, this is why we believe that in the past when we look at historical data, we haven't seen anything that commonly drove a crypto winter. Um and most likely what we are right now seeing the uh the market uh especially the the

structure of the market being very different but most important I would say for the audience to remember this is a more mature asset class. This is a more mature asset especially with crypto ETFs. >> Stable coins are the biggest use case in crypto right now. But let's be real using them on chain is still way too complex. That's exactly the problem Bridge is solving. Recently acquired by Stripe. Yep that's Stripe. Bridge helps businesses send, store, accept, and launch stable coins instantly. Explore the future of global financial infrastructure at milkroad.com/bridge. How much do those world events drive the price of Bitcoin, right? I think that that's a big question because every every technical analyst I I talk to, I'm like, listen, like they tell me like,

listen, any of the Trump stuff, that doesn't matter. Bitcoin does Bitcoin, right? And those are people more on the four-year cycle that's like, listen, we're in the bear. You got to wait at least a year for things to get better. you got to wait until September 2026 is actually kind of coming faster now than we than we realize. You have to wait till that. But then people like you, it's like, well, it kind of affects it, but policy is what matters the most. Quantitative tightening, like the actual Fed decisions, those matter a lot. And you made a really good point, right, that it's like in this case with the Venezuela thing, it's like, well, maybe it kind of kicked off, you know, a bit of a things rebounding, but not really versus something in April where you saw a more significant economic factor like tariffs bring everything down and then

when that ended pop everything back up or at least when the scare of that kind of started to subside. So, how which which of these narratives actually mattered to you? >> I think it depends. I mean, for me, everything matters because we have to pay attention to the market. uh whether it's from a short-term perspective or a long-term perspective but I think for the investors what matters for them in the long run is to understand the value proposition of Bitcoin itself and how Bitcoin works and why Bitcoin in your portfolio would be beneficial as a diversifier compared to any other assets. Bitcoin has been the best performing asset over the last decade and there were specific reasons for that as an immature asset starting from zero to now almost a $2 trillion asset.

However, what matters a lot for the investors to know is that there are different market regimes. We've got risk on market regimes and then risk off market regimes. >> And Bitcoin is almost like a coin that has two faces. Uh Bitcoin is both risk on as well as risk off. And I can give you a specific example from three years ago when we had a banking crisis in the US. Um and as you know the Silicon Valley bank collapsed that drove a whole banking shenanigan and you could see uh significantly the banking sector coming down uh especially when you look at the specific stocks um in that specific sector but bitcoin actually reacted inversely um and I think bitcoin is also

to a large extent a hedge against counterparty risk and that's why actually bitcoin came out in 2008 uh within the white paper to show an alternative cash monetary system that is outside of the central bank control or actually the existing financial system that we know today that we take for granted. Right? So it depends again on how Bitcoin will react. But I would say that there were also specific events where Bitcoin was reacting in tandem with all assets. For example, COVID 19 was a unpriced uh event, right? It was a black swan event that people were not expecting. uh and that it meant that within a few seconds you could see definitely when people identify the

first uh COVID 19 case in Italy everything came down right uh because now it's no longer like a virus from uh from China it's actually very close to the European market and very close to home so people actually freaked out but gold as well came down too gold has had a phenomenal performance over the last year as you know right uh one of the best performances that we've seen in almost 50 years, which is incredibly unprecedented. However, we've seen also use cases and and and specific environments where gold was going down alongside Bitcoin. Of course, Bitcoin going down more because Bitcoin is a newer asset compared to gold being used for thousands of years. Uh but long story short is that Bitcoin may behave

differently in various market regimes whether you're risk on or risk off. So, Bitcoin is both a risk on and a riskoff environment. However, when you look at historical data, we've always seen Bitcoin even though coming down significantly uh after a market event like COVID 19 was able to recover very quickly because usually the long-term holders prefer to buy at a discount and keep on accumulating compared to the short-term holders that do not have a very strong conviction and actually get freaked out in these specific market environments. So that's why it's really important to focus on education for all of the investors so that they can better understand uh the benefits of the technology, the benefit of the asset in

their portfolios and also the use cases as well how they can use it as also money at some point if they want to, right? Um but the long story short for the investors is to pay attention. Yes. But also to stay calm in moments like these and always remember the first principles as to why this asset exists in the first place. >> So does that make you more bullish on Bitcoin or Ethereum? >> To be honest, these are two different use cases. Um that's why when we talk to institutional investors, they're always asking okay cryptocurrencies they're all the same. They're all trying to be the next dollar or the next euro. And we're telling them, no, guys. And that's why at 21 shares we actually launched the world first uh classification system. So you know in the stock market

we got a classification system called the gigs and the gigs allows you to basically classify stocks within the financial services it technology def etc. So we did the same for crypto. We said that crypto currencies are not currencies. cryptocurrency is actually a misnomer because all of them are trying to actually solve a specific problem and for a various different audiences. Um so that's why we've got digital gold bitcoin, we've got ethereium that is the app store for the next generation of financial services or consumer applications. Now they get it. Now right away they understand that these are very very different investments uh in

investment cases and they have to treat them differently. If I tell you that you should buy Airbnb and then also buy Nvidia and because it's in the tech sector doesn't mean that they actually serving the same use cases and actually you would evaluate them differently as well right? >> Yeah. But Ellie, there's no there's no website that people obsess over that shows you the price of all the stocks and at the top there's Nvidia and Airbnb. Whereas in crypto it's like all right, what are the top two assets? Bitcoin and Ethereum like without a doubt. Right. So yeah, that's that's those aren't I do I I understand what you're saying, but it's it's >> yeah, it's more like an Nvidia and a Google or something like that. But >> yeah, intertwined. But yeah,

>> I agree with you, but also I think it comes down to education, right? It also comes down to solving the marketing problem that crypto has, right? People always think that they're all cryptocurrencies that are tree they're used for bad use cases. uh although of course uh you know the elicit use cases are used just by below I think 2% of the global uh volume that we've seen and we're talking about trillions of dollars which is significant um so the long story short to you to you is that education matters uh but impartial education matters the most of course uh because people want to learn something new uh people want to have fun uh but also most importantly people want to

protect their wealth as well as uh maximize this too right And I think it comes down first with education. >> Well said. All right. Well, right on. Thank you, Ellie. I will wrap up there. Thank you for all your thoughts and and congrats on the great report at 21 Shares. You guys can check him out. Check him out. I'll put uh I'll put your handle in the description. Uh but it's just uh Ellie Dingga that you can find. And then 21 Shares as well is where you can find the report. I think we'll put the link uh in the description as well. Make sure people can check that out. Um thank you, man. And and here's to uh here's to a bullish 2026. >> Thank you, LG. Thank you for having me.

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