Why Ethereum Missionaries Are Leaving the EF: 'Their Hopes Were Crushed'

Transcript

I think we have to go back a little bit to like maybe nine months ago or something. There was a big change where Tomas um uh Stanzac was uh appointed as one of the >> year by the way that was like over a year ago. [laughter] >> Okay. All right. So over a year ago over a year ago Tomas they they bring Tamas in. I guess this was like early ball market or something >> and they're like all right um it was Tomas and someone else I can't remember who who other person was but it was like we're going to have a jewel executive director thing right jewel chief of the EF which is the most EF thing like that

alone like just pick a [ __ ] guy bro like it just >> pick a guy >> to like you still have ya and you still have it >> oh 100% yeah It's like two guys plus another two other different guys who also >> like it's just like [ __ ] pick a guy more. Anyway, so so they did that and it seemed like at least from my perspective and and you know I know Luca we've talked about this on the show that there was like a renewed vigor of like let's actually support founders. Let's let's reach out and see how we can help founders who are building on the Ethereum chain. let's try and do some stuff. And you know there were a bunch

of uh a bunch of like different uh um initiatives like I remember at one point um uh someone from the EF was like hey we're doing this guest post thing where like we're getting founders to to post um and uh we were like uh because you know synthetics had come back from mainet from from L2s and we're like uh we're in like this alpha period like it's not you really the best time like give us a bit of time uh And then last week we finally went live and we reached out to the uh the guys in the EF group and we're like hey I think you know now would be a good time and they were like yeah and I'm like okay so I guess that

period's over like that's like not happening now. Um so so Cammy has a list. Cammy from the Defiant has a list. Brent Vaneps, Derek Stark, Barnaby, Tim Bo, now Carl Beak. Um, and these are like senior protocol researchers right? >> And people have been at the EF for like years. It's not like they joined and then they were like, >> you know, they made it through a couple years and we're like, okay, just kidding. like Tomas I I sort of think I understand a bit better because he was he sort of steps into this position.

Yeah, obviously there's like a lot of it seemed like a lot of org like organizational structural things, right? Those are always tough and a lot of times when you're making those changes, especially in an or like EF where everyone likes to be very nice and kind and communist and work together, um you can imagine it's like you just want to get get it to like a better spot and then you've put part of that job sort of is like putting the right leaders in place, the right structure in place And in some aspects like you're you're probably taking on the role of the bad guy to do that and then you can

peace out into the sunset and like pray >> for the guys that have been here for like seven years. >> Yeah. It's weird. >> I It's like a lot harder to explain. I >> Well, I have I have a theory. I have a theory. >> Give the theory. >> So So here's my here's my It's I don't even know if it's conspiracy theory. So BTech had a good uh tweet. U maybe we can throw it up. uh screen. Um so the the EF released their like org chart thing, right, which was like what and then everyone left. Now >> yes, >> my my hot take is that if you've been in the EF and you have been grinding it

out, you are a missionary, not a mercenary, right? like you were just like definitionally you weren't there because you're getting paid a ton of money. You weren't getting like a ton of shares in Ethereum, right? Like you weren't getting any of the things that you as probably someone especially for like the like Uber tech people, right? Could have gotten paid like a you know some of these people did. They were like [ __ ] it, I'm going to Salana and Salana's probably paying them like $2 million a year or something crazy, right? Um you know comp. And so they they could have just jump shipped to Salana. They didn't. They stuck around.

Uh and you have Ya who's trying to prevent people from winning or whatever uh crazy philosophy she has about the world. Um prevent winning from being possible or something. Like I'm not 100% sure what the philosophy is, but like that's my read that's my like kind of snarky read on the the eye of philosophy. Um, and you're like, h, it doesn't matter. Winning's not important because I am a missionary and I'm here to like create the world computer and winning's not even like kind of related to my role. I'm like doing research. I'm a researcher, whatever. So, [ __ ] it. Who cares?

>> Yeah. >> Um, and then a guy turns up and they're like, "Okay, this guy's going to help us to win, >> right?" >> Yes. >> This guy's going to help us to win. He's going to change the culture. He's gonna change the way that things work. He's gonna bring in some like commercial awareness because this is the guy who was running a company. I mean, you know, like >> that's the thing. It's structure in an EF that historically has really strugg struggled with structure, right? And goals and accountability and like No, no, it was like everyone running around.

You had little teams. Uh you had grants, you had Africa, right? Like that was >> don't even get me excited about Africa. So So um >> give the money to [ __ ] penguins. What about Antarctica? Huh? Um so so >> this guy comes in, right? And this time it's different. And you believe you're like, "Okay, I believe like things are happening. Like we're trying to win. Like we're moving away from this thing." And then Vitalic comes in and blows the guy's brains out in front of you and you're like, >> "Okay."

>> Oh, okay. So, we're going back to the old ways again, right? And then it that's just clearly what's happened. Like that was, you know, whatever it was. >> I mean, these people were here before. >> No, no, no. This is But they were given hope. >> But okay, >> they were given hope that it could change. They were they're missionaries and they're like, "This is the world that I've chosen. There's no hope of it ever being different. It can't get better. It's just going to be this way and this is the way that it is." And then a guy comes in who's like, >> they saw like a chance of like the real world, right? Like this could be better.

And then the guy gets like murdered in front of them and it's like, "No, how dare you hope? >> We we're going to crush your hopes." and they're like, "Actually, [ __ ] it." Like, "I've seen that the world can be better and I'm out. I'm done with this. I'm gonna leave." Um, and you know, like there there there's of course like, you know, there would have been some stuff with Tamas would have rubbed people the wrong way or whatever and some people left while he was there. Um, and you know, he was overly commercial or thinking too much about Netherm like whatever the things that were going on.

And I'm sure there were conflicts and and whatever, but like it was a ray of hope and then those hopes were crushed and like at that point I people capitulate. This is this looks to me like capitulation where they're like no this is really not going to change. And the thing that I think I would say uh is like if if Vitalik wants to run the EF his own way, which he clearly does, right? It would be far better to just have Vitalic run it that way. Like >> yeah, >> you know, Tuli runs Salana the way that he wants, right? like totally and Raj like have >> and I've always

>> I've always said this like the number one issue with the last and this is for a year plus now is the lack of confidence that the EF has in the EF right it's this like it's like they're just they have no faith in themselves what they're doing like maybe I maybe Vitalic does maybe there's some of like the mades that Vitalik does Vitalik like there is no question in my mind Vitalik is extremely confident in >> but she put on the Mady PFP you know what I mean and like try and like came back to Twitter and stuff. Yeah, fair.

But like but I I just I think like this is an ideological thing and I have I I my question to Vitalic genuinely would be um let's assume that I'm right and these people are leaving because they're frustrated that they saw that maybe there was a different possible way to do things and then it went back to the old ways, right? Once once left, right? Um, what would invalidate Vitalik's position here? Like what what would it take to invalidate this way of running the EF? Like is there any empirical evidence that the world could present such as all of these amazing

people leaving right the EF? Like what would it take for Metallic to go uh maybe my way is not working. I should try and do a different uh and if the answer is there is no evidence that could possibly you know disabuse him of this idea of this is how the EF should be run uh then cool but then just run it yourself and just say this is how we're going to do it and like be transparent about it. Don't make it mysterious. Don't make it culty. Just be like we're the EF and we're here to do research and we don't care about you know uh a bunch of these things. Um, that's that's what's strange to me is like I I feel like there's an opportunity to to go look, you know, we

lost a bunch of good people. They've they've done amazing work over the last three, four, six, eight years or whatever. Um, but this is this is the way it's going to be. But, you know, you've lost a bunch of missionaries. That is dire. Like that feels dire. You're a missionbased thing. >> If you're losing the missionary, then like I don't like it >> often scares me. It often scares me. Hey, if like if Tomas had brought in a bunch of guys who were like really product focused, really end user focused, right? And then they like short sleeve black t-shirt like you know >> I'm sorry this is likeary part of me like what these are your

these are the dudes like they are like the core of the uh I would say like most of them are like Vitalik's vision types right >> yeah yeah >> a lot of them like put on the Mady PF yeah Trent is like the most missionary guy that I can think of like you know doesn't makes sense to me. This is what doesn't make sense to me. Because to me, the fact that those are the ones that are leaving. >> Typically, you see that when the or goes from being small and a certain way, right, and everyone's naturally aligned to being, okay, actually, no, this is a trillion dollar operation and we need structure. We need accountability. We

need real we need to run a real ship, right? You see the oldest missionaries leave because one, they're tired. >> Yeah. >> But two, like they just they they're they're not as keen to sit around and like do the calls and do >> do do the things and do the coordination within a big org >> that's required when again when this is like a trillion dollar org here. The it just it I think the confusion for me is the mixed signals, right? Because it feels like on the one hand the EF is trending more towards the original Vitalic vision like they sort of like ventured out into like real >> let's try this. Yeah. Yeah. and then

they pulled back >> and that's what >> for for people who were suffering through the old ways >> right >> new way and then it's like actually you know it's like you're living in a like communist utopia air quotes right um and then like you get invaded by these like capitalist dirt bags and life becomes so much better and you're like oh uh weird actually I do like having Coca-Cola that's cool um and then like the like communist emperor comes back and takes the country over again and takes away your Coca-Cola and you're like, "Wait a second. I like that [ __ ] What's going on?"

>> Yeah. >> I'm back to I'm back to like digging potatoes out of the ground. Like, [ __ ] this. I'm out. And then you try to flee the country and they kill you. >> I mean, so so >> I that's that's the most plausible. Yeah. And it doesn't like all the other sort of scenarios I've run through in my head don't don't really make a lot of sense. The only other concern I have is like I have a lot of friends that are in the EF were in the EF are still in the EF. >> It's weird how nobody is saying anything.

>> This is though like there's no other place like everyone's so [ __ ] scared of Vitalic, right? And I like I'll say I'm scared of >> but things leak you out like >> you know what I mean? get laundered through the back DMs and and that's why that herd it hasn't leaked out. People are begging for it >> and what has leaked out is like very clearly like sort of one person's opinion and I don't put much stock in it. >> Yeah. >> Being the overwhelming organizational whatever.

>> Yeah. um it amazes >> I mean there's there's one there's one other thread here which I think is a possible thread that I I was thinking about as well which is um and and I I'm not sure how much I believe this but like let's say you are in the EF um and now there's AI and we saw there were there was someone I can't unfortunately apologies I can't remember who spent the weekend and like cooked up the whole 2030 Ethereum road map >> with like clawed right and this is like opus 4.1 or something so like we're well beyond this now like give that guy mythos and he's probably going to cook some [ __ ] uh and like cooked up the whole road map was like ah guys we could

do this in a week right like we have better technology and to me that was super bullish I was like wow if the EF is really leaning into like AI tools and giving people inference like it would actually at that point be super cool to be at the EF the place that you want to be in the world this is my hot take the place you want to be in the world right now is the place that gives you infinite inference token. >> Yeah. >> If you like that's the the advantage of being in a large or right now. Not it's you also then have to have the autonomy or the the or again the organizational structure to be able to like use that >> again if you're if you're just >> okay well I mean >> if you're happy sitting in a silo but if

you're a missionary whose mission is to improve Ethereum and you sit in the silo with your infinite inference right and you ship the like you ship the whole thing to your little local silo and then and then everyone else is like yeah And that's super cool that like we're going to keep doing these all these all hands calls once a week and we'll ship one feature in 9 months. Sound good? Like at some point you're going to want to off yourself. I'm sorry. Like >> agreed. Right. And so but you can imagine right like you can imagine someone and a couple of the people who have left have said like I'm going to do like entrepreneurial pursuits or whatever, right? Like these guys are some of the smartest [ __ ] people in the world, let alone like the crypto

space, right? Like they are you could the damage that they could do with like AI is wild, right? Like both good and bad. And so um you know I can see how you might be like well I didn't really want to go out and like start a company or whatever. But now as myself with AI tools, I can go and do [ __ ] and I've seen how powerful the tools are, etc., etc. Um, so that that also feels like it could be one of those things where like people feel empowered to go and do [ __ ] on their own that they would not have tried before because they're like, I don't want to start a company and raise money and hire a bunch of people, but now you're like, I'm a smart enough person with like a codeex. If you like

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