Why Bitcoin could be the safe asset of the AI era: Jordi Visser

Transcript

DM. Good morning. Welcome to the Milk Road Show, the daily crypto show where the Fed controls the faucet and everyone else is sipping sand. I'm your host, Jay Hamilton. It's Thursday, May the 1st. Holy Jesus, May, everybody. Are we nearing the end of the US dollars, the global reserve currency? There is clearly a monetary shift happening right now within the US and around the world. What does this mean for the future? What does this mean for gold? What does this mean for Bitcoin? Are we moving from the gold standard to the Bitcoin standard?

What will that transition mean for your investments and the future of capital markets? Today we are joined by Jordie Visser, a macro investor with over 30 years of Wall Street experience. He also writes a fantastic Substack called Visser Labs. Before we jump in and we hear from Jordy, if you guys want a fun and a fast read every day on what is happening in crypto, I highly recommend you subscribe to the Milk Road newsletter. We just did a piece on why we think Bass might have a token coming soon. We also talked this week about what's driving Sooie's recent surge and we also talked a lot about the AI narrative which when will that come back? Where do we see that coming back?

Hit the link in the show notes, sign up for the newsletter. Today's episode is brought to you by Letin get your cash without selling your Bitcoin. It's also brought to you by Coin Shift powering top crypto treasuries with their yield bearing stable coin CSUSDL. With that, Jordy, welcome to the Milk Road Show. Thanks, guys. Thanks, Jay. It's good to be back. Great to have you, too. Thanks. 10 days of vacation in Florida. Felt great. Got some uh some warmth and some sun on the skin. Played some golf and we're back. Well, you're you're coming from Florida. Jord's coming. You just got off a plane, Jordy, from London. I know you've been on the road a lot recently, Jordy, uh chatting with institutional investors. give us the uh the TLDDR of the conversations

you're having right now. Well, there let's just say there's uh there's two components. One is every conversation is generally 90% about tariffs. And the reason that's kind of the important thing to say is that's a sense of paralysis. Like people aren't doing anything. So they're just talking and they're trying to figure out something which is at the hands of one person and you know who probably is uh giving insights to other people uh who who have more knowledge. So everyone's kind of frozen on on the hedge fund side. But the other thing is my primary I'd say introductions and the reason I get invited to things is my view on Bitcoin and my views on AI. So a lot of the

conversation once it gets past the tariffs uh is about those two topics. And I would just say right now people are lost. They believe the economy is headed into a severe contraction and that inflation is going higher and they don't understand why stocks aren't going down more. And so it has people not only lost in terms of what views to have going forward, but they don't know why it's going up. And that's been one of the more interesting parts of the conversation is who's driving the rally that has occurred when I'm I'm trying to think about like which direction I want to ch take this in first. Uh let's first talk about Bitcoin and the the where Bitcoin fits into the future of the

monetary system. There is a significant shift happening right now. You've been talking quite a bit about this early early days in this shift. Where do you see the future of Bitcoin? How does it fit into the future monetary system? So, it's a good question to start with because I think my views are probably different than any anyone I've I've met. Um, so first of all, it's not a currency. So I I have um over the years since first I think spending time on it and then going back and and reading the white paper again and again and again think about how it's evolved over the years but then go back

and read Mark Andre's you know really important paper which a lot of people on both the crypto side and the the trady world have never read uh called when why Bitcoin matters. uh Mark Andre is not a futurist and I learned this with innovation. Innovation has a mathematical side to it. Meaning Moore's law was attached to it. You go at a certain pace and if you go back and read that paper for me, Bitcoin opened up the monetary system for the digital economy. So rather than view it as a currency, I view stable coins as the natural bridge between the traditional finance world and the new monetary system. and you need to have some bridge uh where the old system is not you don't get rid of

it. So a debtbacked you know a goldbacked fiat currency or paper currency to me was necessary to kind of keep people happy. We tried to get away from that in 1971 and now we have a new monetary system which is definitely being formed where Bitcoin fits in for me is more what Michael Sailor says and this gets back to AI and this is where I differ from even Michael Sailor the the overall system the fiat system is a capital system in terms of of innovation. So, you can't have a monetary system without still having capitalism and innovation and you're constantly moving forward. And what has changed and what is beginning to change

more rapidly is that you don't need debt to grow a business. That happened with Magnificent 7. Uh, and now you're not going to need people to grow a business because of AI. And so there's a growing, you know, system that's actually not part of the fiat system already and it's called the private sector and it's the entrepreneurship and that's going to accelerate now. So where I see Bitcoin is just the S&P 500 of the future which just means there are no companies the way there used to be and the money gets into a store of value to acrue wealth and Bitcoin represents that wealth creation which is not just a store of value. I view it as something that rep, you know, is a combination of gold and

the S&P 500. Do do you see that where we're at currently? Are we in kind of an inflection point for Bitcoin? A lot of people are talking about a decoupling from the NASDAQ uh and going more the route of gold with everything that's happened with tariffs. curious on your view of of I guess you can talk about what's going on with tariffs just this trade war and like do you think there's actual big change ahead here and this is kind of Bitcoin's moment to show like hey it's going to decouple and separate itself or do you think like this is all just kind of noise and we'll go back to kind of how we normally are and Bitcoin will have its kind of gradual adoption as it's been doing or like what are you thinking about currently as you see how the world is unfolding since since

Trump's came in and started you know changing things around a little So, it's a great question. Um, and I I'll just give you before the start of the year when we all thought that this would be the most pro business administration ever. Um, and we'd have a raging economy and the stock market would be going higher. Uh, I thought Bitcoin would double this year on the back of stable coins. And when I say stable coins, really the network effects which were necessary. So we were finally reaching a point where the volumes would grow rapidly in terms of crossber transactions when strike purchase bridge I thought that was an important inflection point but I thought Donald Trump would just help accelerate the stable coin thing through the

administration being you know pro crypto um reducing the regulations which were holding it up so to use a Kentucky Derby horse racing term uh they were holding back Bitcoin uh through regulation in the US and So to release it, I thought it would double. The thing that has happened which to me has made even higher expectations for me is that Bitcoin is is uh to really have a major transformation. You obviously needed to have the ETF. So there's an easy way for the wealthiest people in the world to feel comfortable buying it. You know, a fiat-based way to buy it. So I thought that that that was a very positive thing. But Bitcoin for people to get it needed two things. One was it needed to

be the only asset that worked from an innovation perspective. And the Magnificent 7, you know, are still down more than 10% year-to date. And I thought that for this to actually gain dramatically, it would have to be something that people at the golf course when they go, what are you investing in? They'd actually have nothing to invest in other than Bitcoin and that would drive it. I think that's going to happen this year. And then finally, Bitcoin at the end of the day is a loss of trust. uh the fiat system and the global reserve currency, you cannot reverse back. Uh and I said this throughout my trip in in Europe, meeting with people in London, the world was losing faith in the dollar as the global reserve currency for a long time. Uh when Russia invaded Ukraine, we weaponized the

dollar with sanctions and the Chinese started reducing their holdings of treasuries more at a faster pace, an increase in gold. And so you already saw the loss of trust. But now what Donald Trump has done uh through a mandate from the population uh is really break down trust that even the US wants that status anymore. So if the US doesn't want the global reserve currency anymore because it's it's a burden that is not working and the rest of the world was already moving from it, this will accelerate them looking for options outside of the dollar. And I think that's what we're going to see. So all of those facts outside of kind of the first one that has led me to believe the upside is far greater this year than

what I anticipated coming in. When you say it's very interesting when you say there's nothing else to buy other than Bitcoin. Are you basically saying like no one wants to hold the dollar anymore? No one wants to hold treasuries anymore. No one wants to hold US stocks anymore. And so basically it's like Bitcoin's kind of the only thing left although maybe there's gold as well. Or like why do you say no one wants to hold anything else or you think that that might happen? Well, this is an interesting thing that I'm sure the audience um given your audience won't won't know and I and I won't I won't get too complex with this, but you know the the US market, US stock market has gone up significantly since 2007. What most people don't realize is the rest of the world has not moved since 2007. So the

stock markets ex the US have underperformed inflation. forget gold which has outperformed every asset now since 2007 including the S&P 500 but there was one stock market that was working and the reason it was working is because we had a monopoly on one thing so traditionally uh commodities were needed to build you know to grow you needed more oil you needed more everything well that hasn't been necessary since 2007 and the reason is because it was all based on this commodity that you don't have to dig out of a ground it's called code So all of the world's money in terms of investments went into companies that were built on code. Uh artificial intelligence is now the best coder in

the world. So we've democratized or made um coding open to anyone who wants to do it including kids in Indonesia and Brazil and Nigeria. they can compete now in the world and everyone can build code which means the US market which is now about 50% technology stocks are growth stocks and about 6% power meaning energy and utilities uh that is out of whack and the reason it's out of whack is because we went to the cloud and we went to iPhones to get rid of all the cameras and all the GPS and all the physical things we needed less oil we needed it was just cheaper to do things we're now entering a period where people are looking for what to invest in. And if they can't invest in technology, there's

no place really to get the returns necessary for the debasement that has been going on for almost every other asset, even bonds. And so there's just nowhere to play. And the one thing about all human beings is they have liabilities getting forward. And their liabilities are related to inflation. They're related to interest rates. And so everyone needs to take risk. Whether you're a pension fund, whether you're a sovereign wealth fund, whether you're a government, whether you're an individual, but it comes down to what is the cost of your living, your liability. And if Bitcoin is the only asset that is able to outperform those, which is what I think everyone who has believed in it has talked about, well, then you really need where there's no other choice to beat the debasement. And the Mag 7 allowed you to beat the debasement. I think that's over. And so, I think

everyone is now going to be forced into the only asset that can outperform. Very interesting. So if I can summarize and and maybe assume a little bit of your let's say bigger macro beam or trend that you see is we have central banks around the world printing money and thus debasing fiat currencies which has moved people predominantly over the last 20 years into things like crypto stocks etc. But now stocks kind of going to the wayside because of AI. So your big themes are debasement of currency and AI and I guess it sounds like Bitcoin is the one the one thing that will will kind of outperform over that as both of these continue to to happen.

Is that correct? Sort of. This is where I I you know so Raul Powell and I have a very similar background. I've known him a long time. He was at Goldman. I was at Morgan Stanley. Um we're around the same age. We like each other. We talk. We get along. Um I I differ one thing and again it's very similar to what he's saying but liquidity can be generated in a couple ways. There's not any more money printing right now. So money supply is not growing rapidly. What is happening right now is when the dollar is less of the global reserve currency and the dollar is weakening then by definition as Raul points out which is true because the dollar is what everything is priced in. China has about half of the world's

money supply in but it's obviously in yuan but when the dollar weakens that money supply goes higher so when the dollar weakens a bunch of good things happen to the globe because the debt of the world is 65% dollars and so by the by it weakening it goes this is a different story for me I I don't think it's necessary to have more money printing meaning more stuff from the Fed more QE for Bitcoin to go higher Bitcoin is still a $2 trillion asset or just below a $2 trillion asset. While the fiat system is depending on what measure you want to use, 500 trillion to 900 trillion depending on who you talk to.

Regardless, it's too small relative to the total sum of the assets over there. If there was no money supply growth going, but the economy was okay, which can happen through efficiency, which is what artificial intelligence is going to bring, you could actually grow without any more money printing, which is where I think we're going to be. But the assets are not going to grow anymore. And so you're getting actually a transfer of liquidity from the existing value of the assets that are not performing relative to the liabilities in terms of people's cost of living. Everyone's cost of living, your cost of living, my daughters, I reference it all the time. And so I think there's a transfer that's happening, but the liquidity is now happening by the dollar being weaker. And I think that's going to continue because of the trust factor.

And that's why Bitcoin is directly related back to both liquidity, but also a weaker dollar. Very very cool question on the dollar. Do you actually think the US is trying to get rid of this global reserve status? And if they do, what does that mean? Like what does the world look like in in that world? So one of the problems is I think people are are blaming Donald Trump for this. Um Donald Trump didn't elect himself and he campaigned on all of these things. So you know 40% of the people will vote for Donald Trump even if he's dead. So, you're always going to have people that vote for him. Um, and then there's 40% who won't vote for him, even if he completely changed and did everything they want him to do. And then there's

20% that are just like, you know, I don't like inflation. I think it'll be better this way. And those 20%, which are really the independence of of of the world, I think they've just reached a point where they voted and said, "Yeah, I I can't afford to live." Now, I write about my my daughters. My daughters are doing the work of God. I mean, they're they're they're in the health care and social work field, and they can't live where they want to live. Not just today, but even if they're in those jobs for the next five years, they've already kind of gone through it. It's like, I'll make X amount. I can't really make much more, which means they can't live in a city the way they should be able to.

That's why I've set up for them strategic Bitcoin reserves because it's the it not only provides them hope, but it also deals with the debasement side. And I think every parent should do that for the kid who has the resources to do it to give them the chance to at least dream of of having a good life and having trips and that's what Bitcoin you know brings to people. So I think the problem is that the people of the country voted to not be the global reserve currency anymore through the part of you know the plumbers and the electricians and the manufacturers and the car workers and all the people that have you know helped build the country.

They just reached a point where they were like I can't do this. But it was also younger people like my my kids who also are getting screwed in their mind by the system. So this was just inevitable whether it was Donald Trump or it was something else. Democracies voted in the people that hear stories and changes they want to do. I give Donald Trump a really big credit that he he's not doing anything he didn't say he was going to do. Everything that he's doing he said he would do. And that was before people elected him. So you can't turn around and say stop doing what you're doing. It didn't come from him.

He wouldn't have been elected if people didn't agree. So the US does not want the global reserve currency is the point. Interesting. Wait, I want to just double click on uh you set up a strategic Bitcoin reserve for your daughters. What what is that? I like that you call that you call it a strategic Bitcoin reserve and not an investment portfolio. So to do this, there's two parts and I literally just went through this with one of my my daughters, but um they they showed me how they can't live and I went, "Okay, so we have to solve this.

It's a combination of what income are you getting? Um how much do you need my help to subsidize it?" I grew up very poor. I I paid for my own college. My kids had their college paid for. So, they're starting off in a better place, but they didn't have the opportunity that I did where I moved up the corporate ladder at Morgan Stanley very quickly and was able to to to generate wealth to where then I transferred that wealth into Bitcoin and other places to make more money. They don't have that kind of um ability. And so, what I did was I made sure that number one, they gave me just like a private equity firm would do, an investment banker. I said, "Okay, Hannah, it's Hannah Inc., give me your business. Show me what you have.

What's your income? What are your expenses? Okay, so let's take this forward. Where can you live? And I kind of went through a financial experiment with them to make sure that number one, they would never have debt. I would get their financials every single month. And I would contribute money for a period of time. And as long as they were doing that, I would put enough money into Bitcoin to where if they let it go, so I said to them, I think over the next five years, it'll be 10 times where it is at least from where it is today. So I wanted them to see the power of compounding and I said if you don't touch it and you just leave it there and whenever you can get above where you don't need my help which we have to figure out you need to be off of me by

next year. So think of that as a fiscal deficit. I don't need you to borrow money from me anymore. They have a fiscal deficit right now. They need to borrow money from me. I give them money. It's a whole experiment of kind of the situation. And I just said, "So when you get off of that, if for some reason there's an emergency or you've spent a little too much more money and then you need to come in, you'll borrow it from me and you'll pay me back at a reasonable interest over time." So every decision and every dollar she spends, she kind of knows it has to go towards something. She gets in this habit of saving. And then I showed her what it would be worth. And I said, "If you go dip into your strategic Bitcoin reserve, this is how much money you lose. If you

take out $1,000 right now, whoa, look how much money you lost on where it's going to be five years from now. And that not only gives them the power of money today, but it makes them allows them to understand the value of future money. And that's what Bitcoin Reserve is. It's allowing you to dream that you're going to have a lot of money in the future. And this isn't a gamble to me. This is a certainty. And so for me, I just I I I go through I'm like, if it doesn't work out, they're no worse off. And guess what they've gained? They already know how to control their expenses and revenues and they already think the proper way. So that's what I wanted to teach them. It was one big experiment for kids that don't learn finance in school and they don't learn how money works. So I wonderful. Yeah,

that is really and I think it's very helpful for our audience because I think a lot of our audience is in a similar situation, right? They're working and they want to buy a home or they want to whatever, but it's it's just not that easy anymore. And so I I want to then you're you're obviously really big into AI and I think it sounds like that's your biggest macro trend moving forward. So I want to dive into that. Um before I do though, you said Bitcoin, this isn't a guess. This is a certainty for you. And I'm just curious if you can lay out the picture of like why why is this like why is it so certain to you that Bitcoin is for sure the next big thing if you want to call it that? Like what what makes you so certain? I know you sort of

touched on it at the beginning, but I'm curious if there's if there's more that you have to kind of just like help us understand why it's so certain for you. Well, so when I when I was trained by my father about handicapping a race, very seldom when you like the Kentucky Derby is this weekend. Um, everyone's going to love journalism. Journalism is will be a probably a two to one favorite, maybe 5 to2, but you're going to see everything about this horse. It's the fastest horse. The horse is blah blah blah. So that's all well and good, but the problem is you're not getting paid a lot. It's the consensus view. It has the best track record. It's what everyone thinks. I have gone through my life being an independent thinker. I look at every possible situation and then I

attach my own odds to it. So the reason I say with certainty is because for Bitcoin if I attach myself an 80% certainty that and this is what I'll say to you it actually gets lower the longer time gets out from me in the short run meaning the next three to five years my certainty of it being up higher is very high and the reason is because we just got the ETF we just got the administration like there's a lot of things which have happened technically for it uh the volumes everything that you would do with a stock it's like oh my god Gosh, I can't believe people can't see this. It's like the internet in 1995. Like, it's growing rapidly and it's being driven by it's being driven by the 7 billion who aren't part of capitalism. So, I

like the whole story. But what makes it incredibly unique to me is that when I go out to dinners with traditional finance people, 90% of the ones above the age of 35 think it's a scam and worthless. They think Michael Sailor's crazy. So very seldom in life do you get to bet on the favorite at 100 to1 odds and that's the way I view it. It's a combination of what I see happening and what I think people should be saying. So I believe three years from now every traditional finance world person will be at the country club admitting to the country club people that they own Bitcoin. They have a significant impact.

They will still be saying in public they don't that nope I I never got in because they've already had that view. And that's the reason why people thought that Kla Harris was going to win the election is because no one admitted they would vote for Trump, but he clearly had lots of people who had never admit it. So I think the traditional finance world, which has a lot of cash, they're the ones that depend on this thing going much higher, they haven't embraced it. And I said above the age of 35, people below the age of 35 already embrace it. But people above the age of 35, and the higher the age gets, the wealthier people get, the wealthier they get, the more rigid they are on this concept. So, I just believe I'm betting on the favorite in a horse race where the odds

are 100 to one. And I just have never seen an opportunity like this. So, figured you'd have a good answer for that one. Okay. I want to I want to touch on uh how you see the future of the entire digital economy and the shift that is going to happen from the current monetary system to the digital economy. Before we do that, and how stable coins play a part of that, which we sort of talked about a bit at the beginning. Before we do, we just need to take a quick break to hear from our sponsors who make this show possible. We'll be right back, folks. Selling your Bitcoin should be a last resort when you need cash. That's why there's Letin, the trusted platform for Bitcoin backed loans. You can unlock cash in as little as 18 hours with no monthly interest

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I want to talk a little bit about stable coins. How do you how do you explain the future monetary system and the role that digital assets are going to play? So the the digital economy has been growing now for almost 50 years. And I think that's one of the issues that that people, you know, don't put into context with the Mark Andrees thing is that the personal computer came in in 1976. So that's when we got access to this incredible tool that we're able to do this video on starting 50 years ago.

Then the internet happens in in late ' 89 into early 90s. And then we get mobile and that allows us to have Ubers and again allows us to do things like this. We get the cloud uh and machine learning is happening and and we end up getting AI and chat GPT. And the reason I go through the history is I'm like if if you just look at the S&P 500, the S&P 500 is the best tool for predicting the economy. Every model I've ever built, beginning from my time living in Brazil, was built on the premise that the S&P 500 was the representation of the entire globe. Whatever was working, whatever industry was driving things, if it was energy, energy would be 90% of the S&P.

Well, technology and the digital economy really started to take over uh with the internet, but it really started to, let's say, grow in a different way after mobile. And after mobile, like I said before, that's when you're able to have a change in the digital economy from the capital side, from the capital economy, where the fiatback world or the fiat world is based on debt. And you didn't need debt to build those companies, which never happened in the history of mankind. There's no way you scaled a business massively, whether it was, you know, ships going around the globe or anything, without borrowing money. These companies didn't need to borrow money and they got up to, you know, a combined market cap of over10 trillion dollars in

a very short amount of time and dominated the global landscape. Well, now the companies of the future will be based on AI, which means you don't need debt and you don't need people. That's never happened in mankind. So, the system has been changing rapidly. And the reason that Bitcoin is an important part is because even with all that growth until the Bitcoin white paper, we never had the chance of having money in that economy. And you need to have some form of of it being as fast as what we're doing here. You can't be wiring money and it takes, you know, a day overseas and it costs an enormous amount of money because that just prevents people that have no money in Brazil and Indonesia and Pakistan and everyone else. They can't participate in the

system. they can't participate in the system because they don't have access to education. Well, now they have the best teacher in the world because of AI. So, the digital economy has been, let's say, disrupting the traditional physical fiat economy that's debtbacked for 50 years and we're at the point where it's accelerating. So, it's, you know, it's estimated that about 20 to 35% of the US economy is now digital. Well, the concept of GDP is a measurement based on physical tangible goods. It's not based on software or based on coding. And so this disruption has been happening to a point where more and more people around the globe want access to exchanging money and selling goods. So they want to

use YouTube, they want to use Amazon, they want to sell things on Etsy. If you're in Brazil and you can sell things to the American consumer the same way China's been benefiting, that's great. But in those countries like Argentina and Brazil, since I'm most familiar with them, if they sell $1,000, some poor kid outside of S. Paulo sells $1,000 worth of content to someone in Chicago and that $1,000 gets to them. Well, Stablecoin is the only way that they can transact that way. They can't have a check sent to them. They can't go through the wiring of this. And then once that kid gets that thousand dollars from the US, a certain percent will stay in the stable coin that's dollar-based.

And even though that is devaluing or debasing for US people, for an Argentine or a Brazilian, it's not debasing because their currency is depreciating 90%. So having in dollars, uh even if the dollar is weakening, generally it's not weakening as much as emerging market currencies. And then a percentage of that thousand dollars, they'll go, you know what, I want to I want to have this produce interest for me. uh I'm not going to give all that money to Tether or whoever else isn't paying me interest. I'm going to put 30% of that thousand dollars into Bitcoin. So, that is the way this whole system is evolving. It's allowing entrepreneurs, and this has been a long answer, but I just want to make sure there's a point here. You have to remember that the S&P 500 and all global stocks, they are structures that were created to be

public. You don't have to have a public company. So, all of us have shopped at what's called a mom and pop shop. uh it's not a brickandmortar, it's not a chain, it's not that. It might be two people that set up a business. Well, we're going to have a rise of what would traditionally be called mom pop shops. They're really just entrepreneurial things where people are willing to make less money and not have a nine-to-five job at a company with a boss, but they want to have control and they want to be less centralized. So, this is all some form of decentralization. Uh it's just happening in the economy. So that would be my answer is there's a rise going on from technology to allow 7 billion people to participate in capitalism. And it's it's fascinating the way you tie in the the role that stable coins play and

then the role that Bitcoin plays as this uh basically as this reserve asset that individuals can use very simply as a reserve asset. Uh, I want to before we wrap up here, I want to get we've talked a lot about your your medium-term, longer term, you know, as a macro thinker. Your your version of what is short term. When you say 3 to five years is short term, that boggles my mind because, you know, I'm thinking short term is like a few months, right? Uh, so I want to dial it back to a more more short term. And I want to get your take on what how you're navigating currently in the next few months, what your expectations are maybe for the rest of this year in terms of the macro setup

and what we might see from the Fed or from Trump or tariffs, how that might play out. I know these are difficult things to predict. Uh but help us frame the way you're approaching it. Right. So the very short term the number one theme driving um markets is uh verbal liquidity meaning Donald Trump has walked back the let's say the threats of I don't care about the stock market. Uh it came at a time when many many hedge funds and many many let's say um haters of of Trump had sold out of their stocks to drive the market down. There was a lot of volume that happened. But the thing people forget about the stock market is just like I said investors will choose Bitcoin because it'll

outperform. Well, right now gold bonds are really uninvestable and I don't think people want them. They know inflation is going higher. So the bond market is massive and uh if people don't want US bonds whether it's a foreign investor or a pension fund or an endowment or anyone else uh it's a problem and you know they they they've been forced into a situation where you've had all this selling but on the flip side those buyers who have to do something they're going to rotate money into stocks because at the end of the day if they view this as ending at some point and I think once the administration showed that they weren't serious about risking a a recession uh and they were serious about restructuring global trade. I think um

the people that have liabilities that have to invest and that's one point you guys you know everyone who's wondering what happens in in markets I think everyone needs to break down retail versus pension funds versus endowments versus hedge funds having worked at a hedge fund for a long time we had monthly or quarterly liquidity and we had investors that invested us for a certain for a certain return stream so we needed to do that to feel safe that we'd have that money. So, everyone has to try and beat some kind of a bogey to keep their money. And for a pension fund or an endowment or something, if they believe that stocks falling 20% gives them an opportunity to put money in, even if it falls another 10, they're

going to buy some. A company that's doing buybacks is buying back. Retail has seen this game is rigged where the government comes in. So, my overall view is that the lows are uh in for the market because of the verbal liquidity. Uh if we were to do anything this year, meaning get through the lows or get through all-time highs, I put a much higher premium on the all-time highs uh than the lows that we went through. I do think the economy is going to weaken uh this quarter. I do think inflation will show up through, you know, not as bad as people think, but it will be bad enough to keep putting pressure. But I think at the end of the day, people haven't put in something that is really quite curious. Uh last week without people really paying much attention, Scott

Besson, Treasury Secretary, said July 4th, we'll we'll announce a tax bill. And when the tariffs were paused and we went on a 75day pause or 90-day pause, uh the date that they're scheduled to go off is July 4th. Um I don't know if everyone knows this, but that means two things are happening on July 4th. We had Liberation Day, now we have Independence Day. I'm I'm guessing it's going to be good news before then. So, that'll drive most hedge funds and people to be back in the market, but the damage has been done in my mind where what's going to end up happening is the rest of the world has lost trust in uh in the global reserve currency.

But they're also angry about this. And I think the companies that are selling goods around the world, people are going to not think of the US the same way they did. When I was in London, I felt that uh so if Apple if someone has a choice now to buy an iPhone or buy an Android, a Samsung Android phone or whatever, I I think 10% of the people, 5% of the people, 2% of the people around the globe are going to view products from America differently. And that just means the revenue of these companies which have benefited a lot are going to be on the weaker side. So, what that means is the S&P 500 to me will approach new all-time highs, maybe get up there, but I think we're going to be in a rocky rocky world adjusting to this new, you know, monetary system that's being

created. And like I said, I think Bitcoin is the ultimate winner and the rest of the market will be fine, but just not producing the types of returns it has in the past. I see a very similar story playing out. I want to ask about AI. This is obviously a big trend that you continue to talk about and it it sounds like you believe this is going to change basically everything similar to kind of how the internet did. Um what is your I guess going away from the short short-term view and more into medium long term. What is your view on just like how the world is going to adapt or change because of AI? And are we already there? Like um a lot of people are like okay everything's going to change because of AI and like it's starting today. And it's like you use AI and

you're like, "Okay, it's good, but it's not it's not changing everything today. I can't now go build a business that's entirely using AI, right? Like autonomously." So, it's not ready yet in terms of like doing everything for us, but it's getting very close. And so, I'm just curious like on your timelines of, you know, how we're going with AI and then like how you think that's really going to impact the the broader bigger picture things in the world. So this is my favorite take and this comes from listening to many many 75 year old people who are very successful and have run businesses whether they're just high- netw worth individuals or they run raas or family offices they at some point say to me I'm not I'm never going to invest in

Bitcoin because it has no intrinsic value. So here's what I'll say. Your point about AI is true, but what is a problem is that five years from now, there is absolutely with certainty going to be humanoid robots working here. We don't know how many, but we know there'll be more then than there is today. And that number will grow exponentially. Each year there'll be more. At the same time, we know there'll be self-driving cars, which means less people working in driving trucks. uh we know that we will be have drugs for every single curable disease that'll be ingestable within five years.

Uh all of these things mean one thing. There is no value for anything. So if you run a business and you think you are immune from competition, uh everything I just mentioned impacts every business. So when a 75-year-old wealthy individual says me says to me that Bitcoin has no intrinsic value, I say to them, well in a world of AI, no company you invest in has any intrinsic value because it is the sum of the future discounted cash flows which is all dependent on how disrupted the future is going to be. So a PE is a random valuation that could be trading at a 2 PE, it could be trading at a 100

PE. I think the pees of stock companies are all too high in a world five years from now, the disruption I'm talking about. And so the only thing that is safe, ironically, is the only thing that has no intrinsic value. So that's my relationship back to Bitcoin and why everyone will embrace it because it will work because it has no value to be destroyed. What is what is your advice to your daughters in this world where okay we're going into a world where you know companies don't even have value because AI is going to do everything right like you said driving cars humanoid robots everywhere what do they do you become an engineer like what what what do you do

in that world like what's your advice uh so I I'm buy bitcoin because that's obviously money doesn't bring happiness jobs don't bring happiness. Um, the only thing that brings happiness is people being able to navigate each day day by day. So, it's a very Buddhist philosophy, but to be honest with you, I they're on an they're on a long journey of of of finding happiness. And I'm a believer that only each individual, my kids are all different. Some of them will will find happiness earlier than others. But I try to tell them what doesn't bring happiness because it's the only thing I'm certain of is is the identity or the job they have doesn't bring them happiness. uh if they're doing something they love and they're enjoying it and

they're skiing and they're going in nature and they're doing all kinds of things where they feel joy, uh they'll have a great life. If they're doing things that bring them sadness or they're hanging around people that that don't bring them joy, I just give them the same advice all the time. Um go back and read Mike Tyson's story and realize how much he shouldn't have surrounded himself with Don King and the people he did. He'd be a much happier person at this point. And you can do that story with every single person who's lost all their money or has gone to jail or done whatever. It's a combination of them being driven towards money, driven towards some fame, driven towards some identity, surrounding themselves with the wrong people. And a lot of times the most joyful time for me are just walking around in a park thinking. Uh chat GPT

voice mode is a great way for people to learn how to be happy. It's the smartest person I've ever met. I talk to it all day long. I don't read books anymore. I ask it to read tell me about the book. I ask it questions. as I go through it. So, the reality is people have to uh embrace the freedom that they're going to have and the time they're going to be able to travel and do things like that and just look back and say, "What brought me the most joy?" Work is not what brings people joy. It never does. I hear people complaining about it every day in the street, no matter what their age is. And I hear people complaining about young people don't work and old people know how to do it and blah blah blah. You got to go find happiness.

That's why I teach my kids. Fantastic advice, Jordy. Uh Kyle, any final questions or are we good to wrap up here, you think? No, I think we can wrap up. It's great. Let's let's wrap up here then. Jordy, really appreciate your time. Thank you so much for joining us today, everybody. Thank you for listening in and giving us your time. We will see you back tomorrow on another episode of the Milk Road Show. Have a wicked awesome day. Thanks for listening to today's episode, y'all. People often ask me which crypto credit card I use, and I use the Crypto.com card. Uh why? Quite simple. Few reasons. one, you get cash back in crypto, so you're building your onchain dollars. You get great benefits like Netflix subscription and Spotify subscription. You also can get lounge access depending upon the level

of the card that you get. Uh so if you have a certain level, you get lounge access. If you travel like me, travel to conferences. Very nice to be able to be in the lounges. And then also there's no annual fees. So uh no risk to sign up. Hit the link in the show notes. Check it out today. You won't be upset. Thanks again for your support. Y'all have a great day. As always, if you liked today's episode, please hit subscribe and make sure you follow us so you don't miss out on the next one. There's also a link in the description to our free 5minute daily newsletter where we simplify crypto for you while making you laugh. And if you're willing to step up your crypto investing game, we're going to also leave a link for Milk Road Pro.

You get access to our portfolio where you can see exactly what we are buying. This is your number one resource to help you invest successfully in crypto. One final note, this show is for educational purposes only and nothing we say is financial advice. Investing in crypto or any asset is risky and you should never invest more than you can afford to lose. Thanks so much for listening in my friends. Have a wicked awesome