Why AI Will Reprice The Entire Economy | Jordi Visser

Transcript

Intro

What happened in the end of November and into December was probably the most important point of all of our lives in terms of transitioning from a chatbot era to the agentic era. We have entered the agentic side, which means the amount of compute we need has gone up by a thousand times already from what we went through. It's not all in video at this point. I don't think the unemployment rate is going to go higher. I'm not one of the doom and gloom people that believes that people are going to lose jobs because we've already seen it. What we do have is insanely psychologically damaging situation in the jobs market. There's no more corporate ladder. AI's going to destroy that. That is a very different scenario than people losing jobs in a recession. That is a psychological thing. The good thing is people can start building stuff and

start learning how to think critically again as opposed to being trained in school. And I guarantee you then you can go out and get a job at any of these big enterprises cuz they don't have enough people that use the tools at this point. >> Nothing said on forward guidance is a recommendation to buy or sell any investments or products. This podcast is for informational purposes only and the views expressed by anyone on the show are solely their opinions, not financial advice or necessarily the views of Blockworks. Our host, guests, and the Blockworks team may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed. As always, investments and blockchain technology involve risk. Terms and conditions apply. Do your own research.

Jordi Visser, head of my AI macro Nexus Research 22V Research. Jordi, for those that don't know you, I would love to hear a little bit of about your background and journey to where you are today because I think it's a fascinating one and does set up a bit of the context of the conversation here that we're about to have. Oh, I started Morgan Stanley in the early '90s and quickly moved through the derivative ranks and spent my time in equity derivatives. Opened an office for the firm in São Paulo, Brazil in '97. Traded emerging markets and then I came back and ran the S&P options book for the firm. And then I left, set up my own macro fund, ran a macro fund for about a decade, then I was a chief investment officer at a multi-strategy fund, and

now I'm spending all of my time with Mac minis and MacBook Pros and LLMs and having fun teaching people about AI, and uh spending my time on the impact that AI has for everything that you guys just heard cuz AI was not mentioned, and there's not a single thing that's going on in the world today or in the future that isn't the direct result of artificial intelligence. Yeah, I feel like that is a great little asterisk that I feel like I have to put aside to basically everything I think about these days, and you can see this start to occur in in markets more and more by the minute, by the hour, by the day, where, you know,

over the past few months, suddenly, you know, we've seen these narratives of Open Claude comes out and what Claude has been doing, and then suddenly, every week, whatever they announce, that whole sector just sells off pretty instantly, and suddenly, everybody's trying to grapple for an understanding, for a meaning, and then they they just so happen to meet where you've been working at for for quite a while now in articulating these theses that are there. So, let's let's hear just your broad framework for how to understand just navigating these high-level macro frameworks of the global economy within the age of AI. What's hyperbole, what's real, what's understated?

AI Changes Macro Frameworks

Okay. So, last year, the entire year was spent with people doubting it, calling it a bubble, not using it, but saying it with this veracity of of comfort. Um the confidence level that I heard from people who literally do not use it at all uh just made me understand better that there was a huge arbitrage here, um picking names in the space, and hearing that this is a bubble because Corning's gone up too much or that Nvidia's gone up too much. I could give you guys a hundred names right now that I spend time on that are completely mispriced for the trillions of dollars, as Jensen Huang says, that are going to go through the economy over the course of the next decade.

So, when we talk about oil prices and we talk about global recessions, it's not going to happen. I can say that with comfort unless we get into a different kind of stage where there is nuclear war or something along those lines. Because oil doesn't matter to the global economy to the scale that it did 40, 50 years ago, and it certainly doesn't matter relative to artificial intelligence, of which there are trillions of dollars going through it. In the last year, the S&P 500 has gone up 15%. Household net worth in the country has gone up 15 trillion dollars. So, to talk about the impact that gas at the pump going up a dollar and change is going to have, is it going to cause pain? Yes. Is it going to stop the AI spend? No. So, what happened in the end of November and into

the December was probably the most era to the agentic era. And that started with Opus 4.5. We've now subsequently moved through an enormous amount of Anthropic releases. I mean, they happen daily. Uh it is insane to use them and realize things that you can do on your computer to save yourself weeks. Every single day I build something or do something that saves myself weeks. Every single day. I think yesterday there must have been four or five things, and I'm not kidding you. I was sitting here. I was running Perplexity computer and doing something related to your LIBOR futures here that I couldn't do in Bloomberg. So, the ability of doing this stuff has reached

a level that we have entered the agentic side, which means the amount of compute we need has gone up by a thousand times already from what we went through. It's not all Nvidia at this point, but but brings an enormous amount of companies into this. So, everyone should be using the time over the course of the next 3 months cuz the part I do agree with is that we're going to have higher inflation prints. That had already started. We got an import price inflation number today, which was extremely high, and I'll be showing this on my weekly video just to show that CPI over the next 2 months will get above 4% year-over-year. You don't want to be long the S&P 500 when CPI is that high.

This just means that we're in one of those points where you get the chance to watch people unwind positions and get into things when people start talking about a recession. I've said repeatedly, and I will keep saying it, when the pendulum shifts to recession is the best time for people to start buying into stocks. We'll be there sometime in the next 6 weeks. So, to your point, your productivity is booming. You're doing stuff in an hour that used to take at least a few weeks. Talk to me about how you're thinking about this this productivity boom. How it you know, is it sufficiently discounted or understood? Is it understated? And what does it even look like? Like it's you know, it's a it's a nebulous term, but walk me through how you actually think about what that productivity boom looks like.

Productivity Boom or Bust?

Well, first of all, I I want to emphasize the point that Quinn just said because if I had to give a word for the next 5 years, we live in a world of uncertainty, and the way that the assets that were driving the market before, they were all based on some sort of certainty of growth. We don't have certainty anymore of where that's that's going to come from. So, when you get into the point of the productivity that's happening, it's not good for enterprises, in my opinion, and I kind of stand on a ledge on this. Um part of the reason No, not part. The reason I'm here is because I'm 100% a believer that Bitcoin is the end game for growth assets.

So, this has been the most important 4 months in the history of crypto, but very few people here, if you sat them out on a stage, would talk about it that way. Um Bitcoin gets funded by the wealth that's being created in the world through the fiat system. That's where it comes from. It doesn't come from new money, it comes from the other assets. You need a transfer of wealth. You need both the demographics to kick in, but you need people to look at the other side. What has happened in the last 4 months is you're seeing companies, enterprises, see their share prices fall, particularly in software, but it has spread to other areas. Now, theoretically, this should be the productivity boom. You should be seeing this, but the reality is the productivity boom is coming to people that have no employees, like myself.

Cost me $12,000 a year to pay for all five LLMs. It cost me another 5,000 to buy a couple MacBook Pros that I use with my Mac with my OpenClaw. That is far better than the people I used to pay. And so, the labor arbitrage for enterprises is a negative, but on the flip side, everyone who's an entrepreneur, who has a good idea, can make money. So, you're going to see a change in productivity, the rise of entrepreneurs, and the enterprises will have a very hard time adapting to this. They have to get rid of people to make it there. And I think everyone has thought that the profit margins of the S&P would keep going up. I don't see that as happening.

I actually see it on the other side, that if you use this every day, and if you have kids that are, you know, between 15 and 22, my uh youngest right now is a sophomore in college. He's going to work for me for the summer because the job offers he got as internships, he's not going to learn enough about artificial intelligence. He's going to do some stupid assembly line. You show up here, you do this, you listen to this genius talk to you, and you go through this whole level. If he wants to talk to a genius, he can just talk to any LLM, and he'll get an answer that's far better than the practitioners that are trying to teach him how to do things at this point. So, you mentioned something there that I just really want to emphasize and dig into, which is

Why Bitcoin Benefits

the the bedrock of equity value as we understand it, i.e., a discounted cash flow analysis. There's a cash flow there associated with it that derives the equity value. And it it if if assume assuming what happens here is that we see such disruption, you know, and it feels like the market is trying to digest and people are looking for meaning of what's going on here, right? You know, the mag 7 has been struggling. Equity indices have been flat for 6 months and I just want you to really emphasize how you think about just that that foundational structure of equity value and and and really take it home here for folks to understand why that leads to something so powerful for Bitcoin which does not have discounted cash flows and

why that's actually a good thing. Yeah, and and I'm sure most people have not pulled out their Graham and Dodd book and gone through discounted cash flows in a long time and going to see how you value an equity company, but it gets really really hard and we had to create new rules when software companies came out. Software companies were the perfect thing to come out post the great financial crisis. We actually needed a very steady growth engine where you could price things based on hope of the future, but also based on nominal GDP. People don't realize this, but seat-based models where all you do is hire more people end up meaning you need more seats to use the software. So, what had happened is we were able to go from this discounted cash flow model and really extended it into the future

and say, "Well, 15 years from now I have pretty high certainty that this company will be X." And once you had a moat around your business and you were like salesforce.com or Adobe, you actually got there. What has happened in the last 3 months, again, is the most important time, in my opinion, for what goes on in the crypto space. Bitcoin needs to not be valued or not be talked about from a discounted cash flow cuz it doesn't have any. Ethereum, you'll see hedge fund and asset managers will get very comfortable with Ethereum cuz you can do a discounted cash flow analysis for Ethereum. This gets really important because these two places are obviously the most important in crypto, they're the biggest assets. By the end of this year, since you can no longer do a discounted cash flow on any software

company, because 3 years from now, who knows where AI will be. And that's what's happened is the progress has gone so fast that when exponential innovation becomes disruptive, when AI agents are a part in the digital employees are now dominating the way workflows go, you cannot value how these companies will be be there because humans won't be making the decisions. Agents will. Velocity becomes the most important thing of GDP. Velocity is what crypto is about. We cannot have the velocity on the fiat and the guardrails that have been set up for the financial system.

It's going to be related to the speed of it. The speed gets back. And I just know the one quality in every human being I've ever met, everyone's trying to make money. So, the narrative for Bitcoin may not be attractive now because you've been able to make money in the Mag 7. That's not working anymore. When you're looking for something and you call your wealth manager and say, "Hey, how do I make money? What's in the growth asset? What's working?" And Bitcoin is working, all of a sudden you'll see people come up with a new narrative that basically is what I'm talking about. It has to do more with I can't buy this. What am I going to buy? And I think that's what people are going to start shopping for this year.

AI and the Labor Market

Walk me through how you're thinking about the labor market short-term in terms of the layoffs we're seeing. And where do you see that going over the next few years? And how does that contrast with power users like yourself who are doing the job of potentially 10 people. What's realistic to expect in terms of the amount of layoffs that we might see at these major companies? Yeah, this is where I'm I'm not a um I'm not an extremist when it comes to this. I actually think it's very, very hard uh to fire more people than the ability for people to find jobs. So, let me We have a labor shortage in the country. And the immigration situation has made it even worse. So, when you get to the point

that you only need to create 30, 40,000 dollars or 30 or 40,000 jobs just to keep the unemployment rate unchanged, which is kind of close to where we are at this point, something has changed in the economy. We've reached kind of peak employment. We've got a demographic issue, and we've got an immigration issue. So, I don't think the unemployment rate is going to go higher. I'm not one of the doom and gloom people that believes that people are going to lose jobs because we've already seen it. So, the one thing that is a mistake by people is we've already seen job losses from AI over the last 12 months. We've created zero jobs. When you take out healthcare, I have four kids, three of them are in the healthcare field, the ones that work. All of them are in the healthcare field. My son will not be,

but they are. My daughters are. And they can get a job whenever they want. There's a shortage of people in the healthcare industry relative to the help that people need. We need more daycare jobs. We need more people working in supermarkets. We need more people in service jobs. We need every single place I go, the summers in Maine, they don't have enough people. They have to ship them in from overseas. All of this stuff ends up the same way, which is we're not going to see the 1970s with these job losses. So, when we talk and when you hear all this analysis on oil, just remember, in the 1970s, we saw the unemployment rate go up in two major waves. We have the unemployment rate sitting near all-time lows. And even though it's up more from where it was at the low, so it's up maybe a 80 basis, 90

basis points from the low that we saw a couple years ago, some of that is the immigration, some of that is just the normal attrition that's happening, but we're not seeing any kind of spike. What we do have is insanely psychologically damaging situation in the jobs market. There's no more corporate ladder. AI's going to destroy that. People coming out of schools, they can't get jobs as quickly as they used to. People are working in jobs that they didn't go to school for because they need to pay the bills because affordability is so difficult. That is a very different scenario than people losing jobs in a recession. That is a people can go spend time with artificial intelligence. They can invest money in themselves, ask their parents to give them a holiday present, and give them

access to the top end of any one of the LLMs. They can start building stuff and school, and I guarantee you then you can Want to zoom out here for a little bit and talk a bit about the the global sovereign AI arms race that is underway, it appears. We have obviously the the the Western US-based LLM companies and the associated support from the US government, and then we also have, you know, say Chinese specific models. So, what's going on there? How do you view that sovereign AI arms race?

The Sovereign AI Arms Race

Is it Is it a zero-sum game where where only one will win out, or do you see them as complementary? How are you thinking about it? Well, number one, because uh I mean, AI is a nuclear weapon. There's no other way to say it. It is the most important part of the military, and if you didn't think it was, um you just have to go back and think about what happened in Venezuela. You have to read the ability for the United States to go into a country and take a leader out of it with nobody getting killed, and really put into context. I mean, we're we're talking about the type of equipment and things now that is sci-fi.

Um the amount of people that have been killed in Iran, the Mexican cartel. We're at a point where everyone wants to have the most powerful AI, and that means it's going to be funded no matter what. So, it gets back into the point. On the one side, you have the governments of the world, the two most important, that are going to make sure that these weapons are in your hands. I'll get into the negative side for that for people here who are in the S&P 500, because there is a negative argument with the government being so attached to the private sector when eventually this gets to the point where they want to make sure they have control of it, and everyone should hear this because it's starting to happen, and this leads to another line of multiple compression.

But, this is a part of our lives and it will only get more powerful. And remember, this is before humanoids. So, I always say this to everyone whenever I'm at a speaking that I meet people outside, I go, "Have you brought into the equation when you're thinking about the fact that the market is bullish or bearish? What will happen to companies in 5 years when humanoids are working in them? Forget artificial intelligence at this point. But, now you put a humanoid, so something that's stronger than us, and you put a brain in them, something that's smarter than us. Human beings are no longer the top of the food chain. I don't know how to say that loud enough.

We're not the strongest, we're not the fastest, and we're not the smartest. This has never happened before. So, if you're thinking of making long-term investments, if you're thinking of anything in long duration, you have to question your mind and actually ask, "Am I making the right decision on this?" And I think this is why this is so important. The governments have to make sure this happens. And then when you flip it to the private sector, it's existential to Google, to Amazon, to Microsoft. They're all spending this money because they can't afford not to have it. You can't compete. Just look what's happened to the software businesses. When Google's sitting there fighting and people like, "Yeah, there'll be ads." I'm like, "How are ads going to be worth anything when an agent is making the decision?" Those ads and everything is for human beings. Human

beings will not be making the the majority of decisions within 3 years. So, you're at a point where all of this stuff happens in a way that just changes the way the system was set up, the way the private market was gone. But, if the government, as this fight with Anthropic showed, actually gets to the point where they decide they need to have control of this because they're not able to use it in a way that they want from a military perspective, well, then the government owns AI, which what happens to these companies. So, the connection between the private sector and the public sector is going to get very, very murky every single year that passes because of the strength and power of all of this equipment.

Can New Models Catch Up?

I'm curious if you think there's like if you just look at the path of progression of these these models, say in the US, it seems like we just have this flywheel right now where every few months, you know, you've seen the meme of the flywheel, it's like you know, Anthropic comes out with this is the best model and then it's ChatGPT's turn and then it's Google Gemini's turn. And I'm just curious how you think about the pace of that innovation. Is it just this reflective loop where the leaders will beget the leaders or can you see a way for, you know, some burgeoning LLM that we don't even know about yet to come and catch up? Is that even possible in your mind?

I I don't think for So, let's separate two things with the frontier models and let's get into where I think they're all going to eventually go and this gets back into the government. If you want to solve fusion, if you want to have a an army of humanoids, if you want to have autonomous vehicles to the degree that are safe and can go across the country, that takes a lot more mem- a lot more models in terms of power and usage than we've gone through. The compute needs for that to where you'll allow humanoid to be in your house around your kids, we're nowhere near that. That's going to take a long time. We need data centers to continue to do that. In terms of where they are now, you don't need any better thing. I always say that I've been paying the max now for a year.

I I don't pay any more money, but the models get a hundred a thousand I can't even tell you how much better they get. When I said I was here and I entered something into Perplexity Computer, if you haven't used it, pay it for 1 month. If you're in the financial world or if you want to build something and just literally go into Perplexity Computer. You don't have to get open clone go through the whole setup. Perplexity Computer is an agentic system that will do things for you that are incredibly simple. It will build dashboards, it will build websites, it will build whatever you want. We're at that stage now where the models continue to improve, the cost doesn't change, but I don't think you need anything more relative to what's happened. So, just think about it from the perspective of

we're going to spend a lot more money on computes. The first real enterprise data center, the first true one, finally came out recently. This is on Blackwell. It's Lily Pod. If you get a chance, just go look it up. It's obviously for Eli Lilly. The reason I brought up the government, we need to solve cancer. We need to solve an enormous amount of problems for the world that have existed for a long time that get down to the nano level. To do that, we need super powerful computers, eventually getting into quantum. All of this stuff leads to that horizon. So, the models are going to keep getting better, but they're going to get into bigger problems. The question is, are they good for making you money? If you want to be safe, the only thing to really focus your attention on is the

hardware and the commodities necessary for it. Gold is only up 20% over the last last 6 months. Silver is up 60%. I'll take silver every day over gold for the rest of time because it is a necessity in every single piece of technology that you use. If you go through and do the math on how many drones equal a tank, so it is massive in terms of how much silver we need. It is effectively rare earth, so do not forget or think for a second that silver is not an important part. But if you go look at semiconductors and how they've done, there's certain things within this. People like to talk about gold as this asset of what's going on.

I will take from this point Bitcoin and I will take semiconductors and I will take silver over anything related to gold at this point cuz I think the agentic world has changed the equation. I just don't think most people know what the difference is between a chatbot era and agentic era, but it is a massive difference. Yeah, I completely agree. There's there's those that are, you know, on the the free models of a chatbot and then those that have dug into the agentic capabilities and they just it's absurd. It's like speaking to different languages when you're talking to these people that have been on one side or the other. Um brings forth this this this premise and proposition you have that the demand for compute is infinite. And I think this has been a really interesting example for me over the last few months of how to think about it,

Why Compute Demand Is Infinite

which is that when we reach these new levels of compute, we're suddenly able to do new things that we never even really thought about. So, we've had this in over the last few months this this open claw cloud code moment where suddenly we realize, "Oh my god, this can actually do things now." But by the nature of that, "Oh my god, we also need a lot more compute to do these things." Like non-linearly demands of compute. And so, I'm just curious, how have you thought about that? This this recent leg we went through recently, and and do you see another leg coming of of what does that next leg look like for demand compute?

Do you see that conversely as non-linear as well? Yeah, and this is um I think the best way to answer it is it's very hard to think in exponential terms. Our brains aren't wired that way. We have a pattern recognition skills that goes to what we know. So, when COVID happened, uh by the time everyone knew what was going on and they were trapped in home, that's when they really started to think about things and how quickly it unwound and how quickly money was put in. It was very very hard to convince people that the world wasn't going to end. The same way right now, the situation in Iran. Three months from now, the situation in Iran will be either over or it will be less bad than it is today.

And that's the way markets work. That's the way war works for the most part point, especially when you have something like this where it's kind of exhausted and now we're trying to get through some sign. It's not going to end in the next week, and I'm sure it's not going to end in the next 3 weeks, and the impact from it is going to last for probably 6 months to a year. But that doesn't change the way that we go through things. We compare the oil time of the past, and we go to the '90s, and we go to 2000, and we it's different for AI. There is no comparison. We've never needed this much compute ever. It's never been this much. You've never had trillions of employees start at the job at the same time. And that's the only way I can describe the

difference between the chatbot era, which takes human beings to ask questions. So, you go through however many times you've used it today. And just think that an AI agent goes all over the web and does everything 24 hours a day. And you can have billions, trillions of them going. And every day that happens, they need that compute. That's how they eat. So, it literally is like opening up a restaurant and having a line out the door of trillions of people, and you have to find some way to feed them. There is no way that we will have enough compute for all of the agents until we've at least gotten to the point four or five years from now that we understand what it means to have that much volume going on. But that's what's happening is we are flooding the system. And so, when you leave here, and

for those of you not from New York, try to go to JFK at 5:00 today and see how long it takes you to get from here to there. Now, that was not the case 75 years ago. That was not the case 65 years ago. It was not This is all built up because the infrastructure's out there. We have no infrastructure for the compute. That's the reason that we have a supply-demand mismatch because the the progress has gone so fast, the supply can't keep up. And we are at bottlenecks right now, which is why DRAM prices are up 4 or 500% from where they were in September. Why silver has gone up as much it is. Why all of these things have happened. It's why PMI's finally went higher.

I knew we were going to be in this place just by sitting on this all day long and realizing that we don't have enough supply right now for the demand. That brings up this important point to consider, which is that when when folks talk about the Mag 7 or just the Nasdaq, Nvidia gets bucketed in with the hyperscalers. And I think that is a huge mismatch. And I'd love for you to explain that distinction and why they should be more nuanced with that analysis. Yeah, it's it's exactly what it is is you create a Mag 7 and then everyone treats them as one thing. There are three hardware companies in the Mag 7 and there are four software companies. I hate the software companies. So, Google is the best of the bunch, but when you get through Amazon and you get through

Hardware vs. Software

Meta and you get through Microsoft, I mean, Microsoft to me is a disaster. I don't know even I don't I never liked it when I worked at a company. I couldn't stand it, but the fact that they were supposed to win this whole battle with Copilot and now you've got the Satya's taking over to do this. That Those four companies have trouble and that's why their stocks don't look great. You have Tesla, you have Apple, and you have Nvidia. These are hardware companies. They have a different scenario and I think they all you can make an argument can be winners. I certainly think Tesla will be and I certainly think Nvidia will. Whether or not Nvidia should be trading at a super high multiple, it's a hardware company and they are not out of the line of disruption in the same way that all companies are. So, the question is what

should their valuation be? Micron is the biggest position in my own personal portfolio. It's trading now at a four PE off next year's earnings, somewhere below a four at this point. So, they've discounted the fact that memory is not going to be there forever. So, I think you just have to go through this and realize that there's a difference between commodity and software hardware companies versus the software companies. When you go through the Mag 7, I wouldn't bucket them all together. Nvidia's business is the key to this entire thing. There's no way that anything bad will happen until Nvidia is not a company that's going to be able to produce things. And I just think the fact that their multiple is compressing while they're going sideways here, they'll probably be the company that leads us from whatever low we make in the first six months of this year,

they'll again be a story going forward because the demand for them is is huge. And just think about what Jensen Huang said this week at GTC or last week at GTC. He basically said we'll have a trillion dollars of revenues. Well, that's an increase of almost two and a half times where they are today. The market's not priced for that. The market has their revenue of being closer to about 600 billion in in a couple years. So, uh he's basically saying optically or what he sees, demand is infinite. Market's not seeing it, so. All right, last couple of minutes here and just want to have you part some suggestions to the crowd of whether it's a crowd of traders, financial market analyst, crypto enthusiasts.

How to Actually Use AI

You know, I know you're a big advocate for just getting out there and trying these things and really experiencing them, but I would just love to hear your your final suggestions on for those that perhaps are only experience has been just typing around in in in in the free model chatbot version and haven't made the jump into something like Claude code. Like, what is your high-level recommendations of how people should actually just make the jump to doing and trying these things out? All right. The The first um general rule, and I don't know how many of you play golf, but that's the easiest analogy for me to give to teach people this. So, if you're a 15 handicap in golf and you wake up one day and you went, "You know what? I want to be a five handicap. How am I going to do that?"

Everyone knows what to do. If you don't know how to ski and you want to go ski, you have to go put in the reps. You have to put in the miles. You have no choice. I started skiing at 44 years old. It was not an easy first year. It was very painful. I fell a lot of times. I'm sure I have multiple concussions that I've kind of lived through. But, I can ski anything on the mountain now. It took a while. AI is the exact same thing. It's painful. It's not something natural. For skiing, for those of you and for all of you who ski here, when you try to ski in your 40s, you're leaning back on that hill so quickly to make sure that if you fall, you're falling only a little bit as opposed to downhill. You have to put the reps in in AI and you can't be

scared. Number two, and probably the most important thing to break your brain from, is you have to build a relationship with it through communication, through verbal communication. These models have gotten so good that whether it's on your AirPods instead of listening to the podcast or the music you're going to listen to, walk down out of this building and go down and have a conversation on any topic you want to have with whatever LLM is on there. Have a topic on it. I have driven in my Tesla for 5 hours with Grok, didn't put in a single thing, and I'll have conversations about anything that enters my mind. It is amazing to be in a car with the smartest person that I will ever meet because they know every subject. This is not about something where

Einstein Einstein knew nothing about fantasy football and he knew nothing about plenty of other topics. AI knows everything and so you can have a conversation and you can have an interactive dialogue, but if you have the conversation, you start to learn more and you start to be dependent on going back to it. If you have young kids, have a conversation at the table about where you want to travel to. Do an investigative thing and say, "Hey, we want to go on a trip in the summertime." Do something that involves everyone in the house cuz as you get used to it and as you start to use it, it becomes easier and easier.

But don't do anything until you do that cuz if you sit down on the computer and you try to do something, I actually did have to take some lessons for a little while. Probably took a 3-hour course on Coursera to get to the point where I felt comfortable of how I could manipulate around the computer and I'd use the computer at my desk for 40 years. Did not know how to do certain things with it that the Coursera course took me, which was free. Once I did that, I felt I could blow up any machine very quickly and I did and I moved on to the next machine, but eventually everything got easier. So, take it day-by-day, but use it every single day and you'll get better as time goes on.

Boom, well said. Well, that's all the time we have. Thank you so much for joining us, Jordy. That was awesome. Thanks, Phil. >> Mhm.