What's next for Bitcoin

Transcript

hi everybody and welcome to a new episode of uh the reinvent money show uh we recently rebranded to reinvent money uh my name is Paul I'm your host and with me today my co-host Felix Marino from Spain he's a a Trader and Economist and also is regularly on RT Hi Felix hi and for the first time we have y Burgers he's a lecturer at the University in Amsterdam and he also is a Bitcoin consultant with this company coin and Co if I'm not mistaken and welcome you and then our guest today um is is rer ver aka the Bitcoin Jesus and everyone of course knows R very is one of the most

influential evangelists in the community and he's also a very passionate investor in a lot of Bitcoin startups so welcome Roger thank you guys for having me yeah it's been a while last time was in February it was legendary episode also with dud mister and Eric Vorhees so I I I read your um interview yesterday the one that you gave uh for coin Telegraph and there was this this one quote that that I really liked a lot it was uh you said if people are using Bitcoin in their own lives for things like this I think they will be less inclined to believe the mainstream media when it reports something negative about Bitcoin and truth be told I haven't been using Bitcoin for intensively for a while but last weekend I organized a big

conference in um in Holland called reinvent money there were like 400 people coming uh and around 100 people or so paid with Bitcoin and most of the speakers and and for for flights and all these things um I paid them with Bitcoin too because they were International payments and it was just hassle to do it with Swift and big and iban and all the address Fields you have to use so Bitcoin was just so easy to use and gave me the feeling back how how easy and convenient Bitcoin is to use so I really like that quote maybe you can elaborate on that a little bit more yeah I people hear all these scary things in the media but if you have first experience with something then you can know even better than the media so if people are using Bitcoins in their own lives to you know to buy pizza or

movie tickets or airplane tickets and they hear the media saying oh people are using Bitcoin to do bad stuff they'll think well wait a minute I use Bitcoin in my own life to you know order pizza for my kids bitcoin's not bad maybe the media doesn't know what they're talking about and I think I one of the points I was trying to get across in that article as well is I've gotten you to give a lot of interviews and read a lot of interviews about Bitcoin in the main mream media and that's a hard job for a reporter they go and spend maybe one afternoon or a day or two learning about a topic and then they're supposed to write about it and for a topic is as complex as Bitcoin that's a really difficult thing to do and and we all all of us that are involved in Bitcoin

deeply we see the things that the mainstream media write about it and we realize oh that's completely inaccurate and it's kind of made me realize that well maybe when the mainstream media writes about other topics as well uh maybe they don't know what they're talking about there either and it's not because of anything intentional or malicious on their part part it's just uh it's really really hard to be to become an expert or impossible to become an expert on something with just you know an afternoon's worth of experience with it yeah definitely we had Andreas inas at the event and he gave away a lot of Bitcoins well not whole Bitcoins but fractions of it to um people that have never used it before because at the event there were also a lot of people that are interested in local currencies or some other Solutions not per say

Bitcoin and they never had firstand experience with Bitcoin so Andreas was giving them away with open up new wallets we had a a sponsor bitonic that gave away Bitcoin so I really think like you said like giving people the chance to experience it themselves is the best way to spread adoption yeah I completely agree seeing it in action is something that's totally different than just hearing about it in theory on the other hand on the other hand people don't appreciate that much when you give them when you give Bitcoins away uh I've thought for a while that the best thing we could possibly do is make it easier for people to earn Bitcoins so if we finally man get Uber to pay out in Bitcoins or or any of those bit or Airbnb or any or maybe that uh Joy

stream that vit torent compet competitor which is going to pay ceders for sharing their content uh that will allow millions of people to earn Bitcoin even you know or maybe even the 21 uh Bitcoin computer that they're coming out with uh even if it's tiny amounts if they earn them it does uh it does mean they they appreciate them a lot more I I completely agree although I think what uh we were talking about there is maybe if you just hear about Bitcoin it sounds really difficult and hard whereare is when you actually see it in action you make a wallet and you receive some Bitcoins you'd see oh it's not that difficult to use just like if you had only heard about email but never actually used it that would sound pretty difficult but once you used email it's

not so bad either yeah okay so um let's let's move on to um Bitcoin Community uh involvement and and the way ways people Express themselves onlin and we have of course all sorts of fors for that we have with' Reddit and and Bitcoin talk um but you've decided to launch another one um at bitcoin.com it's which is a a domain you control you open there for for. bitcoin.com why did you do it what was the the the ne necessity that you saw there well I guess quite quite a few factors came together but the biggest one is that there's just all sorts of control or censorship depending on what you want to call it there of what people can and can't talk about on the two main forums

where most of the discussions were taking place which are Bitcoin talk.org and orbitcoin uh and I don't think that that censorship if to control descent censorship's not not the right way to go about it so you should use reasons and facts and logic and let there be an open discussion rather than just suppressing any any sort of dissenting opinion and that's what unfortunately has been going on for the last couple of months so now uh at forum. bitcoin.com anybody can talk about you know anything they can present their reasons uh you know go and have at it and I I think uh that's the right domain to have it at because thousands of people who are brand new to bitcoin every single day are winding up uh at that domain because they don't know that Bitcoin is not a company and

they just assume that bitcoin.com must be the official website for the official Bitcoin company and then uh they'll quickly from there wind up over at for at The Forum on bitcoin.com and they'll think this this must be the official forum for the official Bitcoin company on the official website and we try to make it clear that that's not necessarily Thea the case but it makes it uh incredibly easy to get new new uh users signing up and new participants and uh it's a really really really good tool to be able to explain Bitcoin to new people all over the world uh and I think we're seeing that happen the form just launched a little over a week ago but we've been seeing about 10% growth per day um and I think if that can keep up for very much longer we'll have a pretty darn active Forum um so we

already have you know like I said we launched just a little over a week ago we have around 1,300 posts and coming up on 600 registered users so I think that's a pretty decent start but uh I hope if you ask me in another week we I'll say we'll have a or in another month we'll have tens of thousands of posts and thousands of users and I think with a domain like that we're we're on the right path for that so anybody that wants to engage in free and open discussion regarding anything having to do with Bitcoin uh come on over to forum. bitcoin.com you're more than welcome and you're not going to get banned or Shadow banned or or any of the stuff that uh is more than likely to happen but how if you you talk about censorship how do you draw the fine line

between censorship and just a Spam moderation because I we have a Bitcoin uh group Facebook in Holland and we get so much spam there that we actively need to remove users we need to delete um post uh because a lot of it's just not relevant or just commercial advertising how do you um draw a fine lineer because I I'm sure that some of the existing forms um much of it is also just to keep the the discussion clean and remove people that are not there to contribute yeah when when we get to having enough users and enough posts where that becomes a major problem that'll be a good problem to have and I guess we'll have to address that when we come to it uh the general rule of thumb I think that I have in mind at this point is if

if you're presenting a reasoned argument your post is allowed to stay if uh you're you know using ad homy attacks and saying you're stupid or you're fat and you're ugly so therefore your point is invalid you know that's probably not the appropriate sort of thing to be posting but uh old or just Bitcoin or do you allow any kinds of coins there yeah we we made a whole sub form for people to discuss altcoins to their heart's content and uh if you're post there's a whole subsections for you know philosophy and politics and economics and uh the board isn't supposed to only be about Bitcoin the board is supposed to be for people who are interested in Bitcoin but all the other topics that they're interested in so you know whether that's transhumanism or the singularity or computers in general or or just Tech or you know whatever people

want to talk to you're more talk about you're more than welcome to to do it and we'll try and organize it so that the different topics stay in different sub fors but uh you know there's lot and that's the exciting thing about Bitcoin at this point is it's big enough and there's enough users involved in Bitcoin that there's a whole wide variety of uh topics and opinions that people want to discuss and uh hopefully form. bitcoin.com will be a place where they're able to do that how many users do you currently have uh it was right around I think 580 when we started this chat and I would guess by the time I wake up tomorrow morning it'll be 600 something so uh so we we just launched so it'll it'll take some time but they're they're pretty active one of a I should really thank a

guy his username is a what is it Litecoin guy or the Litecoin guy.com or something like that or there's nocom at the end anyhow his form name I believe is Litecoin guy and he is the number one poster on bitcointalk.org everever for starting new topics and he's busy away posting interesting content over on our website so we're really thankful and appreciative to have him as well as a number of other volunteers who've stepped up to help make more and more useful and interesting things over there but uh that's no small task to be the number one poster or starter of new threads ever on the the bitcointalk.org and that guy you know he said it in his post he's Fed Up of the censorship going on over there and he's on board with h

the form at bitcoin.com now and he's posting all sorts of great stuff and seems like a a really great guy and I invite everybody to come and uh take a look at his post and interact with him yeah have you guys been using it already Felix I haven't tried it yet I looked at it today but I haven't actually and we can see you know there's the stats there's a lot of people looking all the time and of course just a small number actually bothered to sign up um so at any one moment maybe there's you know several dozen people looking at the website and maybe between five and 10 registered users that are browsing the site at the same time but uh it takes time but it's it's happening and uh more and more people are signing up so lurking is a hob hob you ask for uh

to sign up just an email nothing uh yeah I I'm not sure if you can use a throwaway email address or not but maybe we'll change it so that you're you're able to do that as well so but you can log in uh directly with your Twitter or Facebook or Reddit account so you don't even have to make a new account you can just use one of your existing accounts well at the letter thousand flowers Blossom I um I welcome all these initiatives the more uh channels we have to discuss things the better um so let's talk about um another important issue that's been um been debated heavily is the involvement of of banks in the industry well first Banks were interested in Bitcoin then they were sort of co-opting the term blockchain and now recently they're just primarily

talking about shared ledgers that skipping the whole blockchain term all together um what is uh what is what is your your take on this whole development and and to what extent should we welcome this development of banks involving themselves with these types of Technologies and and and monetary Innovations uh I guess first of all I think they're it's great that they're uh they're paying attention in just a few years ago everybody was thinking why don't the banks pay attention to this amazing thing we have and now they're you know they're shy to use the word Bitcoin and and they're kind of shying away from that whole thing but it's so clear we already have this giant Bitcoin ecosystem with tens of thousands of merchants and you know millions of users around the world uh and these are all on

the Bitcoin Network and the only tokens that are on the Bitcoin Network networ are bitcoins and it's going to have to make sense for bit for banks to have to plug into that Network rather than trying to build their own from scratch and I think that's going to happened uh you know I've I've met with a fair number of bankers and the people that are helping do the the research for them and I set them up with a Bitcoin wallet and I send them a little bit of Bitcoins And when they see it right there before their eyes and then I explain to them it's not just this one wallet there's an entire ecosystem with millions of users and tens of thousands of businesses out there that are already using this and all you have to do is plug into that with and boom your connected to everyone

all over the world in this network that already exists and they realize yeah why would we try and reinvent the wheel when this is already available to us but but to be honest I talked to Bankers a lot as well and almost all of them they tell me they're not interested senior Bankers they tell me they're not not interested in in the whole Bitcoin thing they just want to find a way to clear transactions faster amongst themselves um so to me it seems far more likely that they will just build their own private blockchain or or or permissioned Ledger or whatever you want to call it or database even but it seems to me that they're more interested in Ripple like structures to to make transactions faster um than anything of of the things we like about Bitcoin namely open source namely the

fact that you don't need to ask permission to send a payment all these things doesn't seem to me that they're interested in that the thing is that the moment they have their own token and that token can be transacted relatively freely say say we have I don't know whatever 13 Banks or 15 Banks Ed a shared Ledger but they have thousands of EMP it and they can send money to each other using that Ripple like system the moment they have their own token and that token don't need their own token it's just they don't need a token they just they just use the national currencies and that they can call it call call it Bank Euros whatever the moment they have a denomination that can be exchanged between their users then it can be exchanged for Bitcoin is using things like shapeshift.io where you can buy and

sell Ripple and things like that so so so they start connecting indirectly to the Bitcoin Network as as Andreas Sopo said you know uh they they start creating all these internets and then suddenly they start connecting these internets to the internet and then suddenly they decide well yeah the point what's the point of having an internet except for a very few limited functions we might as well just be on the proper internet right on the internet of money which is big I hope so but I just I'm just a a little bit less optimistic than you guys are I think but Roger maybe you can chip in on that as well yeah I'm with on that in in what do they say in the in Europe in for a penny in for a pound or something like that like they're they're coming and it's not

going to stop okay so you guys are fully convinced that that they eventually will have to plug into the Bitcoin um mutter ship because the other things they're building are just not as as useful and efficient as as as the main chain I think like Felix said it doesn't matter like once once there's some sort of token that people can exchange then you know Wonderful tools like shapeshift.io just allows it to be instantly convertible for anything else and yeah but they are token is kyc then it's not it's not that you can easily plug it into something as um semi-anonymous as all these cryptocurrencies it's like as as all the executives at HSBC know and everywhere else like the kyc stuff doesn't matter at the end of the day for Creative people they find ways around it and all it winds up being is is just a

burden for for honest people that are trying to do good things exactly yeah like Felix you're organizing a blockchain week right or you one of the organizers of in Barcelona next week um what is what is going on there next week in Barcelona and how does this tie in with this whole blockchain discussion well I I'm just helping out uh the organizers are the same ones who organized the digital currency Summit in Madrid uh earlier this year which was very successful they decided to make a big because there's a huge interest in Barcelona in financial technology and there's a huge interest in Bitcoin and the blockchain th but obviously this is geared more towards Bankers professional business and so on uh the conference I'm organizing is the trading conference

which is very focused on Forex Traders uh and uh traditional financial markets and putting those together with Bitcoin and the blockchain one of the things I found out this year which is amazing there like 13 or 14 online Brokers which already take Bitcoin for deposits and uh and uh about half of those allow withdrawals in Bitcoin so that's going for me that's going to be the big Market the next big Market that um launches off so we we had gambling took off massively we've then had tourism with Expedia and desia and many other travel agents accepting uh letting you buy train tickets and plane tickets with Bitcoin uh and I think Forex Trading which is a

very International very Hightech business very uh very Global is is the next one that's going to take off it's already starting and so so I thought it was a very interested very interesting thing to put together people who are in the trading world and people who are in the Bitcoin world and U see what comes out interesting so may Roger you should go to Barcelona next week maybe I I just wish uh I wish we had supersonic airplanes that could get us around the world a bit faster it's still a big world um but one other really cool example of what's what's happening is uh I I just checked the the article went live on uh on bitcoin.com in the news section just a few minutes

ago um the largest question and answer website in all of Japan which is a company called okay wve um just announced uh yesterday that they have integrated Bitcoin tipping into their entire website and all their users will be able to have Bitcoin wallets and they will be able to buy Bitcoins and this is a huge huge huge website in Japan so the entire population of Japan is somewhere around 120 million people this website has 40 million visitors each month um so it's like a third the population of Japan visits this website every single month and now they're all going to be exposed to to bit coin and this website unlike Mount goau has a wonderful reputation in Japan everybody loves this website and I think this is going to be able to do a really good job of turning

around the public perception of uh Bitcoin in Japan when all the Japanese people see that this website that they all know and love is now using Bitcoin and they'll realize oh maybe Bitcoin didn't go bankrupt and Bitcoin isn't just one company and the Bitcoin CEO wasn't arrested and uh I think it's going to be a big turning point in Japan for a company that's this big uh to accept Bitcoin and integrate Bitcoin directly into their business model and that's on bitcoin.com right now you can see it in the news section there's a whole story on it so what do you make of the recent some of the negative news that we've heard about bitpay for instance right so bitpay is firing some of its workers or laying off some of its workers and we see quite a few articles that you know Bitcoin adoption just

isn't taking off what what's your sense on this I think it depends on what part of the market I it's pretty clear I look at where bit pay was a couple of years ago wow did they ever accomplish a lot in just a very short amount of time so uh yeah maybe they're having a little bit of a a cut back at the moment but uh you know that's part of part of business sometimes sometimes you have to tighten in your belt and uh I think they'll do just fine they have all sorts of amazing products all sorts of customers on board um I use bitay for my event I got bit the Bitcoins through bitpay last Saturday so um so what would be the most effective way to to grow the the the user base from uh from here on here on out so in uh Japan or in the

Netherlands or Western countries where what do you think are the best ways to grow the user so I think in in the USA the the two best ways right now are two websites one is called purse.io where anybody can easily get you know 20 25 30% off at Amazon I everybody buys things from Amazon in the US and who wouldn't want to save 20-some percent off their next order and yeah there's a little bit of a learning curve to to buy some Bitcoins and submit your wish list but uh or if you if you don't want to save 20% you can save 5% instantly and it's just about the same level of difficulty as shopping directly on Amazon they have purse instant and you you buy it just like that and another fantastic tool I

think for all the probably tens of millions of uh Starbucks customers in the US is coffee. fold app.com you can instantly buy Starbucks gift cards for a 20% discount that works in the US Canada Australia the UK Hong Kong Macau and probably a couple of other countries that I left out as well and a 20% discount wow like I I guess I'll I'll say my idea publicly now even though I've been meaning to write up a whole article for the Bitcoin news.com on it but here's just here's a great business idea for anybody who's been thinking about how to get involved in Bitcoin and how to start a business in Bitcoin step one be in one of the countries where coffee. fold app.com Works step two buy a Bitcoin ATM

step three go and talk to the manager at the local Starbucks and figure out how much he's going to charge you to put your ATM machine in the Starbucks and then put a little like sign on the side of your ATM machine that says use this machine to save 10% at Starbucks and have Step One open coffee. fold app.com step two put your money in my machine step three send the Bitcoins to buy your Starbucks gift cards the ATM machine will charge a 10% premium on on the Bitcoins the customer gets a 10% discount at Starbucks everybody's happy wow You'll instantly have all these new people lined up at your Bitcoin ATM machine because they want to save 10% at Starbucks you earn 10% on every Bitcoin that you sell through your ATM machine I

think it's a fantastic business model that you can set up all over the place uh I think that's a a great way to spread Bitcoin and create new Bitcoin users and make money at the same time so there there's my idea have at it well talking about ATMs uh weren't there a lot of ATMs um being made ready to to turn out Bitcoin as well in in Ukraine and and Romania um fix you got that news right oh F the the original news said 16,000 but uh but now it's uh they've checked it they double checked it and it's 12,000 approximately it's an existing ATM network which already sells all kinds of vouchers but they basically updated it so you can buy Bitcoins through it and if you look at uh Bitcoin ATM Maps like coin ATM radar and stuff

like that uh you will see that there's a huge both in a similar thing happening in Romania as well so like Eastern Europe is exploding with the places where you can buy Bitcoin yeah but like in Holland which is a very developed Bitcoin Nation we have quite a few of those ATMs and and hardly have hardly anyone is using them to be honest well actually I have first uh I I play ukra they probably like maybe 200 bitcoiners um so it sounds sounds interesting but will will they use it or will it lead to more um expansion of the user base I'm a bit skeptical well it's not I think it's infrastructure it's the first step then you need something a news case like poio or some other way in which Bitcoin will be very useful for users which will take

it maining but first you need the the the infrastructure if you're if you're to early with infrastructure like that happened also in Holland there's there's Merchant or some of the ATM the place where the ATM was was put they they lose interest because it takes them uh it takes them SP space it cost space and doesn't really lead to revenues and then they remove the ATM because it was a fi um project if you're too early with some of these infrastructural things you run the risk of of scaring scaring up people I I actually have firsthand experience because I placed one of the first ATMs in Spain a Lama Su machine at a shopping mall here in Madrid and uh as you say it was a novelty first few days loads of buyers but then it was doing at 6,000

7,000 a month which is nothing which is not bad but even if you put on there we we had the % Commission on that and uh and it wasn't you know it wasn't a moneymaking machine but I I didn't want to be in the ATM business I just wanted to you know give it a kick start but then I sold it off and the guy I sold it to um has now got 18 ATMs all around Spain 16 or 18 and one of them is my old one and he gave me access to the to the sales data and he was he was uh he was doing like €40,000 a month per ATM so that's he was covering the cost of the ATM in one month I don't know if that's still the case but for about six

months that was the case so you know if if done properly Market it properly it can be a very profitable business and uh eventually I always think that you know the the making dedicated Bitcoin ATMs is going to end because they'll just find a way to connect existing ATM networks like it happened in Ukraine and Romania also in you can now sell Bitcoins at the network of 10,000 Bank ATMs which have a sort of remittances program and you can sell Bitcoins through those on a phone app called um bit to me app and uh that's working quite well yeah but the thing with all these uh thing with all these projects that they all they're all C catering to existing Bitcoin users

which as we know as a small community yeah I I like ideas like um Roger mentioned which cater to new users to potential use by offering something that done through Bitcoin yeah cool a question for Roger sure yeah so uh you are uh you have quite a lot of ideas about economics and political issues and something I think about a lot uh with all these kinds of Technologies is how are they going to affect the state so we've had sort of the model of the nation state for uh about 200 years in its current war and you know I think about things like Bitcoin and I think you know what is going to happen tax regimes what is going to happen to our

institutions for Law and Order what's going to happen you know in general uh breaking down all these borders what's in general going to happen to uh the amount of power that that stage actually wield now I know that's a very that's a very ambitious question but I would like to hear your I would like to hear your thoughts on that but but let's have the best case scenario first what's the best that could happen in 10 years time this the best case scenario is the the Nations States wither and die and people deal with each other on a voluntary peer-to pure basis individual to individual without any sort of you know corve over structure that forc people into you know one size fits-all systems I I think that's the the B outcome and

that's what I'm hoping for and that's what I'm working for um but we we don't know at the end of the day you know the the future is uncertain it is what we make of it and we all need to come together and work hard to make sure that it is the the best future that we can have possible and you know 10 years out I think we'll all still be around but uh you know 20 or 30 years from now we're probably going to you know go through this uh The Singularity with artificial intelligence surpassing human intelligence and what happens after that man I guess only the machines know so in the interim I think uh Bitcoin is look this is flag I got it from the president this weekend I think it's this is the right way to show it is the it's

the liberland flag the president F first time I ever met a Pres president he gave me the flag uh because he was at the event so um do you think like we have a sort of a a nice variety of of Min states of like small communities that kind of are like governments because you still need people to take care of the communal roads within small communities do you think it will be like rothbart say said like a beautiful collection of all sorts of little patches of states small governing themselves C I'm asking this rer sorry I'm curious to hear what Felix has to say after no just very briefly before we had nation states for 200 years we had 2,000 years of uh or a th000 years of city states yeah

something like that right that'd be a nice outcome I think my answer is that we we don't know because it's never been allowed to to happen uh these governments go and control everybody and tell them they're not you're not allowed to leave and and this and that and uh you know let's just try Freedom let's try letting individuals live their own lives how they want to and not be forced to participate in things that they don't want to let let's find out what's going to happen you know let let a let a thousand flowers bloom so oh sorry so do you want do you want the how to get to that to that phase because right now of course there's all these um public goods that need to be sold off are you proposing like an auction or how do you go about that you

have big stats now how do you go to small sites yeah if people value things they're going to be willing to pay for it voluntarily and there's all sorts of cool you know fundraising campaigns and Kickstarter campaigns and Mike hearn's Lighthouse project and all sorts of things like that can be used to to fund uh public goods product projects and I think it's going to be really really exciting and interesting to see the amazing new ways that people think up uh how of what about the existing publics they need they need to be dealt with they're now in the hands of let's say for example the rose in a certain country what to do with those how to Dismount or how to to transfer ownership then that that process that that seems to to me like a like a muddy uh long winding process for no clear clear

procedures or rules I'm I'm from the US originally so I'm I'm most familiar with with how things work there and uh I think a a former and really knowledgeable investor named Harry Brown who also happened to be a presidential candidate in 1996 but uh I don't know how many fans there are presidential candidates in general but anyhow his plan I thought was actually pretty good was to take all these roads and national parks and buildings and things that are owned by the government today and auction all of them off and then take all the money that's earned or or generated from that and then use that to to pay uh to buy private annuities for all these people that have been promised retirement pensions from the state so

all these people that are on Social Security today or Medicaid or have been promised pensions from the state from serving in the military or whatever use all the money that was gained from auctioning off all the government assets use it to buy private annuities for all those people that have been promised money from the state and that's it that's the end a onetime payment to all the people that didn't paid money and then now the all the assets of the state are in the owners of are in the hands of a private owners and and go from there and uh I think something similar to that could work in most countries around the world and what problem are there sorry what kind of problems are there uh do you think there are any kinds of problems that can't be solved by state so people talk

for instance a lot about tragedies of the comment and things like oh sorry that can't be solved by markets um what kind of uh problems do you foresee in in sort of a society that's basically you know where things are basically ocated only by markets I may maybe there are some particular problems that that would be the case but uh it's hard to see how we could have a system that's much worse than what we have today where governments have all these nuclear bombs Point enough to destroy the entire planet multiple times over and people are dropping bombs on other people they've never met all the place and if you don't pay for the bombs to be dropped you go to jail and they're locking up people in cages for you

possessing a plant and just all this craziness all over the world and okay maybe I'll I'll give somebody the benefit of the of the doubt maybe there are some public goods that can be better provided by government like I don't think that's the case in my heart of hearts I really don't think it is and from all the studying I've done I don't think that's the case but let's say that is it's probably better not to have those public goods done quite as well and not have all these wars and bombs and nuclear weapons and millions of people in jail for having a plant like what we have today is absolutely atrocious to anybody who stops and thinks a minute for for you know take a look at the world around today where you have to get permission from strangers to travel from one piece of land to another

you have to pay half your income to other people you've never met and then they use that money that you PID them to build all these bombs and then they'll use that money to build jails to put you in if you refuse to pay them like what we have now is absolutely atrocious craziness and the only reason people don't see it for that is because they were born into it it's been the way things are and you just assume that that's how things have always been but if you stop and step back for a minute and look around at the world what we have now is chaos and I'm just advocating that people you know deal with each other on a voluntary consensual basis what what I'm advocating is the same rational thing what we have today is the crazy mad house all right it's very passionate I I

talked to the documentary makers that filmed you in Tokyo the Dutch documentary makers they were at the conference as well actually they actually had a showed a brief preview of of their the documentary and they they told me how passionate even emotional you got at some point for talking about especially about wars and atrocities and how Fiat money is is is linked to that or or how it Fiat money makes that all possible so that really is very dear to your heart and that's that's also clear from from what you just said so thanks for the uh for the passion and honesty there um Felix you wanted to add there something oh no it's just going to touch on the point but uh um Roger made about auctioning off State Goods to a certain

extent that's kind of happening in Greece right now they've made this 50 billion public goods privatization scheme and they're basically using it to pay pensioners so so that's that's kind of happening already we can see some examples of how the state can be dismantled yeah but what my my big disadvantage with that is that if we now conclude that most of the Fiat money is being or the distribution of the current wealth is is not done in a fair way because a lot of people have for example received money through Bill outs or whatever these are the people that will buy those assets you already see that in Greece that Bankers buy Greek Islands so if you auction of assets in the market right

now it's the people who already have an unfair share of wealth because of the Billings and the bonuses or whatever they will start buying up those those real assets right so how how will will will an au auction ever be fair in in considering this current distribution that we have and that's not correct Roger Utopia isn't an option as much as we would all love to live in Utopia that's that's not an option and I think putting all these Assets in the hands of of private owners is still even if they're ones that just received a bunch of bailouts and were you know connected with the politicians beforehand it's still a lot better than continuing with the system that we have today okay well before we wrap up um I want everyone to just a brief commercial broadcast just like the video please and

subscribe to our ever growing Channel or follow us on Google+ as well um any any uh other remaining questions yanam from your side uh no I was thank you for those ideas those I was interested in in hearing them I perhaps maybe one final question um how are you worried at all that uh Bitcoin and these other kinds of Technologies um might be hijacked by Banks States and so on for um you know centralization purposes let's call it is that a worry you have no not particularly so let's say tomorrow it turns out that like you know the NSA or whoever has figured out how

to track each and every Bitcoin transaction and the coin join doesn't do any good and any of these privacy tools aren't working at all uh the cat's out of the bag in regards to these you know peer-to-peer systems that can't be censored or turned off or or controlled and someone's going to make something that's even better than Bitcoin with even more privacy built in and all the people that care about that sort of thing can instantly switch to that there won't be anything that uh anybody can do about it directly other than sending individuals to to prison for it but uh as a as a whole they they can't stop it so no I'm I'm not really worried about that and if I can add a a little additional commercial to the end here too for everybody that's listening to about Bitcoin and hearing about the

ideas and find it exciting especially you know even if you're not fully on board with the idea of you know completely doing away with with with nation states and that sort of thing but like you find Bitcoin an exciting positive tool for humankind bitcoin's not a company bitcoin.com is not the official bit there no coo there is no no CEO of Bitcoin so it's up to all of us on this call and everybody listening to go out there and tell our friends and tell our family and set up Bitcoin wallets for them and show them purse.io show them coffee. fold app.com show them all the wonderful ways in which Bitcoin can be useful in their own lives and get them started with Bitcoin that's the only way Bitcoin is going to spread is if we go out there and spread it so it's up to

all of us so I'm asking all of you from my heart if you want to make the world a better place go out there and tell everybody about Bitcoin please right well Felix you will be you will be doing that next week in Barcelona um anything else from your side Felix no thank you very much it was wonderful well thanks Roger that was uh was was amazing and um so people check out roger.com or at on Twitter um Roger kver right because Roger ver is someone else in Twitter I almost made that mistake I'm sure this guy get gets stacked all the time with that's just some some small gu somewhere it's Roger cver on Twitter right yeah okay well thanks Roger and um let's do it again in a little less than a year I I propose um

and um all the best with all your efforts and with making your Forum a big success thank you all very much cheers bye