What's new in Eth2 Edition 99 - 12 August 2022 with Ben Edgington and superphiz

Transcript

content it's not content to you because you have real content but to me it's like talking about chocolate is valuable it's all i have hey so uh ben has the toblerone that i shipped to him um you so you haven't opened it you haven't done anything with it i haven't done anything with it so pending your instructions but i was hoping i was hoping to find some poep action but uh i looks like i'm disappointed what was going on yeah um i so truthfully i don't know what's going on i um i saw the marketing on their website um i bought

you know those for you i also had some reshipped uh to me from uk and um discovered that there is no mint code included so um yeah you know so feel free to try it share it pitch it if you do find a mint code let me know but oh and to be fair i did i did through nefarious sources get a get i did get the poet oh nice well done or as it's called a uh a pope on this one that's right uh yeah so i guess they were giving a poep qr to dispenser so super friends is

actually the name of superfoods super friends yeah it's it's our internal um uh east acre one of our chat rooms is called super friends so oh oh you got to personalize it all right yeah yeah but it was kind of a letdown because i i was really looking forward to the pope vitalik calls them popes and since he is the giver of information like don't we have to say what he says yeah yeah he talks about that pope guy all the time yeah yeah so anyway hey ben how are you i am very well thank you fizz yep yep i am uh still roasting in the uk which

we're unaccustomed to but um it's gonna get cooler soon they they promise we found out uh that's it's the first named heat wave do you are you aware of the name of it i haven't heard that or something i uh okay i have to cheat first but that it's technically the heat wave in seville spain but it is the first named heat wave so presumptively we're going gonna have a bunch more yeah interesting

right let let's go yeah uh hey so yeah let's do the intro i am super fizz from the east acre community i am here with my dear friend ben edgington uh hey hey everybody roddick owner at uh tecu um and so uh hey so i don't know if you know this but i'm i'm suddenly like um you know doing client diversity i'm suddenly like all right everybody now run teku baysu it's it's the the best the best pair right now so um i i did that it taken me like like 50 years to get there but there i am yeah yeah i noticed appreciate that thank you very much

it uh it only makes good sense right now so if if you're here and you're listening and you're thinking about setting up a beacon chain uh validator um i really do suggest uh i try not to push any client what i really encourage is overall diversity but sometimes there's just an obvious like hey do this and right now the obvious hey do this is uh teku and besu so for a while it was nimbus uh and you know for a while it was hey just don't use prism um but now it is hey you might want to use tekube for a while so that's uh that's really good uh let's see i gotta share my spring is struggling with technology today

always is this the first time you've done this it's the first time i've used computers all right uh is it set right are we looking good yep looks good so we're going to talk about the 99th edition of what's new in eth2 so uh i guess this is probably good stopping points as any right like no need to do another one i think we'll do it we'll do a minimum of maybe one more we'll see how it goes yeah yeah we'll see congratulations on getting this far all right just okay you don't get to the next one i never imagined four years ago when i started doing this that i would still be churning these things out every every couple of weeks but there we go

it's got a life of its own uh now this is the lfg edition lfg mean are you gonna say that aloud probably let's go with friends um yeah so there's no eth2 coin we know this which is funny i love how you get heat for this but doesn't coinbase call their staking product eth2 i believe so yeah yeah i mean but you're the one who takes the heat i don't know well i i don't know there's plenty of heat going around uh as we discussed uh earlier it's uh but you know eth2 is a thing it's out there um many many many people use it um they're not gonna change so you know i i i find it quite tired some

people just going around saying oh you're not allowed to say that anymore it's just a thing yeah we're a decentralized network i can say whatever the heck i want and unless it's it goes against consensus then forget you righty-ho yeah permissionless uh i love it so i love your top pick uh this video by cinematics is absolutely superior yeah i clicked through to it thinking uh you know it's just be another kind of mediocre thing but it's brilliant uh absolutely accurate uh justin drake i think reviewed it and had input so you know it's kosher and uh yeah beautifully done really nice

and he doesn't kind of shy away from the hard stuff goes into the details um yeah it's just a really nice a way to understand what's going on with the merge and uh ethereum in general and they don't get lost in the weeds they maintain like a really good overview like it's honestly like i wish i could do something this effective because it it just takes you in 16 minutes from beginning to end um i love it and i do appreciate uh cinematics for developing that yeah yeah beautiful i've got no idea how this stuff is done i mean it looks like it must take hours and hours to to put together oh sure sure yeah of course

this goes back to that uh that whole uh note writing that looks like handwritten but it's actually the font like i'm sure that's it's out automated somehow some slider hand going on for sure but uh yeah looks great yeah kind of as we mentioned it's it's been a dull week um in ethereum uh yeah just let's talk about big boring numbers yeah probably nothing worth chatting about anything there were that that excites well do you like dates should we have a date do you want to go on a date bro i've been giving dates for months now what are you talking about my date was june [Laughter] doing anything on uh mid-september

yeah so um i i think i would like to shorten this as like five eight seven five and then you know yes it's something sextillion i i don't i don't know exactly what um what a sextillion is but uh it's something around five thousand sextillion or something i'm feeling personally excited by the thought of a sextillion i don't maybe i should stop we can check the progress at bordell.wtf yeah more more dodgy stuff um so yeah currently currently looking at 3 30 a.m my time uh the australians will be uh delighted but um

it's been fairly stable around that for the last uh few days so it looks like hash rate isn't changing too uh drastically but but we'll see we've got a month to go uh from today we're recording on the 15th of august so we've got one month 30 days 31 days 31. i really wonder if we're going to see minor attrition uh but there's really no way to well no way to tell i've also considered turning on my minor to accelerate the future but how big do you mind you might accelerate us by 13 milliseconds or something else well yeah i i don't even know that i'll contribute to difficulty adjustments so uh yeah

i've i chatted to some people familiar with the mining community and the view was that uh miners will just keep on going to the end because there are rewards we had as long as it's profitable they will mine ethereum i just had this panic attack that i didn't actually start the recording i did you did i was like crap i'm not recording um okay so you said that you talked to people in the mining community and they said what did they say miners would just keep on keep on uh chugging until um the moment of the of the merge just because it will be profitable um yeah well and then they'll switch to another chain because as long as they have cards uh they will do their best to

um if they can break even if you can make a penny a day on a minor then people are likely to continue mining somewhere somehow yeah the value would have to have to exceed your running costs so your your power and cooling and you know whatever day-to-day running costs um because your kind of capital cost is something right so you know if you can make money over and above your running costs i guess it's worth carrying on difficulty where where they could go um i'm not really ultra familiar with the the uh economics of mining and which chains are best best to mine but um etc can probably not take that much extra um yeah if we look back

uh you know uh 2010 bitcoin was cpu mined 2011 and 2012 were the gpu mining heyday for bitcoin but by 2013 asics had really taken over the market for bitcoin mining but uh gpus they they were still relevant like you could still find places to make money gpu mining and then of course uh that's 2013 2014 and ethereum really came on the scene in 2015 and took all those gpus but there were two years where you really could be

profitable mining things that were not the dominant coin i guess i want to say i can't really remember what we were mining maybe it wasn't litecoin but it wasn't too far i have my dogecoin but not on purpose i just didn't have anything else to do with my hashes but yeah i i do think miners are going to stick around in some form um i really hope that they um like i can't expect everyone to join the beacon chain but i really hope that they find ways uh well my real hope is that they shut gpus down but yeah yeah i mean we should probably address the elephant in the room which

is this uh pow eath pal um fork uh you know is hoping that miners will stick around i don't think you mean that right oh i mean um you know they're gonna do what they're gonna do i i don't think there's any value to that i you know there are going to be folks who who want i don't want to say who i'm thinking of but there's a proprietor of another large chain who has some financial interest in dividing the ethereum community and so that person i'm thinking justin son i wasn't going to say it that person has a financial interest in kind of like

encouraging a proof-of-work fork but i think i i don't really get the sense that it's going to be successful long-term even if it does cause a short-term you know fork chain um yeah um the latest i've seen is that they are at least planning to change the chain id which means that we will be spared replay attack chaos which is a real target i mean um especially for the unaware uh it can it can cause a lot of um a lot of issues so uh as long as they do that i don't really care what they're doing and i think that was successful i saw some kind of amusing tweet that was like we have 60 developers working around the clock and we just we just changed the chain id and i'm like that's that's

great yeah i think i think they've managed to change two lines of code or three lines of code but one is like one when it's a difficulty bomb that's one line gone one is the chain id that's another line and another one is to take the whole contents of the uh beacon chain deposit contract and send it to um an externally owned account which i think is the eth power dev fund so they'll have 13 billion um in ethics to to positive to spend but well that'll be worth in each pow is uh anybody's guess yeah i have to confess at the very beginning of this i i had i felt a little nervous about it um but zooming out uh i my nervousness is gone because i i know

i know the future that if they're the direction that ethereum is headed and now it's just sort of a side show that's kind of fun to watch and you know i i don't see any real cause for concern other than just enjoying the show so yeah yeah yeah now that now they're changing the chain id i'm i'm happy just let them do their thing i don't care yeah yeah so matthew rubinowicz is also running a spreadsheet um yeah and prediction differs a little but it's um it got yeah slightly different modeling and assumptions there's just a reminder that uh all of this is a bit imprecise there's also a dune dashboard i saw today which didn't make it into this

edition so um that'll be in the next edition or you can find it on twitter what is matthew rubino what's his role do you know i have i have no idea okay okay i i see him around and i've chatted with him a couple times but i'm like i'm not quite sure what he does um ttd is based on analysis by mario havel which is a great analysis and it's actually pope funat down here uh they don't know i calculated which i i absolutely love mario also produces uh bordeaux wtf i found that very amusing so you want to talk about the route to the merge what it's going to look like

yeah we call it a route over here um but i think we could talk about that so we have to remember this this number uh this 600 and five whatever sex jillian number is not final final uh that was our best guess uh at the consensus school on last thursday um assuming it remains on target um by this thursday for you know september 15th ish it shouldn't be changed but if there's some radical change like we see a lot of hash power dropping off the network or a lot of hash power coming on by thursday it is subject to revision at the all core devs call um so that will be hopefully just ratified as

is but but may change on uh thursday the 18th uh then we've got like three to four days as client devs over the weekend thank you very much to get out um releases both for execution clients and consensus clients with that ttd number baked in um and there will be uh an announcement on the 23rd from the ethereum foundation at which point that's the kind of starting gun uh and everybody is expected to update both their consensus and their execution clients so that each side has the the same terminal total difficulty shouldn't get any errors um at that point and you've got basically until september the sixth to get all that done so you'll

have two weeks to do your upgrades and then it's the bellatrix upgrade hard fork on the beacon chain so this is our second uh upgrade we did altair um when was it last year last about a year ago october-ish that will prepare the beacon chain it'll make the beacon chain merge aware as it were so it puts in a couple of extra data structures and uh fiddles around with a few bits and pieces but it's basically the beacon chain is primed waiting for to hear from the execution clients that it's hit the terminal total difficulty and then it will start processing um execution payloads that's ethereum

transactions on the beacon chain so um it's it's ready and the idea is that we hit the merge event about 10 days after the bellatrix the disaster scenario is that the merge happens before we hit the ttd so the merge kind of is triggered before the bellatrix upgrade is done that's the sort of yeah everything is horrible we tried that once before it was fun yeah um so so the we we've left 10 days buffer the the premise is that accelerating that ttd by more than 10 days is just unfeasible with the amount of hash power that's available in the world so yeah they're gonna have to make more gpus you uh

you mentioned altair and it brings me to this uh jonathan mann song have you heard this i adore this song we're getting there upgrade the beacon chain as we all prepare for the great big murder okay sorry uh yeah i remember that i think that's the first time i uh i heard him doing a um ethereal merge um track is yeah i just i i i hope that i at one point i owned that nft but i have a terrible problem of giving them away so i'm not sure if i still hold that one but uh i hope i do doesn't matter um i want to point some things out uh

easttaker's doing a bunch of support uh and if everyone literally everyone anyone who is running a validator is going to have to update uh this is not one of those things where you can put it off a few months and get lucky um what's going to happen if to anyone who fails to upgrade who fails to like set fee recipients or who fails to do um the jwt secret what what's going to be the outcome there yeah so if you don't upset uh update your consensus client then come the bellatrix fork you'll no longer be participating you'll have forked off onto a chain of your own and you won't be getting rewards um and uh effectively you'll be uh your your balance will be leaked out you can

um rejoin you can upgrade and rejoin the the main chain after the bellatrix fall so it's not a disaster uh you know kit calm but you will have missed uh out on a bunch of uh atta stations um what happens if you don't set um your jwt secret well you lose contact with your execution client you'll your node should complain about that uh and you'll see error messages in your logs so look at your logs anything that's in there which looks strange or unusual you know ask about it ask on each day or ask on your client teams discord the clients should make you aware if they

are misconfigured at this point and uh i can't remember what your other scenario was but uh uh i i see this uh this overwhelming fallacy of people who just don't check log files after doing an update uh like it like it didn't throw an error so like you know my system service restarted so i must be good to go um but really the proof is in that uh the log and if your log has repetitive lines of error um or failure or um exit code one uh like a lot of different things you

can look for the the error logs are almost i don't say they're common sense but something that's wrong will almost jump out at you so and i think uh whoever is creating errors often tries to make that text pretty verbose um so that as you're seeing that go by you can say that doesn't seem right yeah one of the consequences of using java is that the stack traces are enormous like pages and pages you know there's a problem we try and keep our logs fairly clean in tekku but if if if there's an issue it'll do a stack dump and uh either on your console or in your log file you will end up with a you know pages long error message and you will know something is wrong um grab your log files for warn or error um

the clients will all have some formulation around that just so that you can um see anything unusual don't overlook anything i mean i we got some um user reporting an error that's seen in teku teku had thrown this stacked trace i've never seen it before we want to know this stuff i mean all client devs you know if it's coming up it shouldn't be coming up something's not right and we want to see amazing how often people just kind of like overlook stuff can't be bothered to report it it's just you know it's just a minute i have a tendency to do that i'm like well that's you know somebody will tell them about that but it's terrible like if you cannot resolve an error someone needs to know about it and that really does start with checking your logs which is after every upgrade you do you you've

got to check your logs um people literally just assume that it's gonna hit everything is fine and it's often it's not i was thinking i i may for giggles uh just run a a non-upgraded bellatrix instance just to um just for fun that's my kind of party um i do i love the ron paul meme because so my favorite my favorite view of this uh is a site called bitchquantity.org in 2000 whatever when uh bitcoin first

passed i think it was a thousand the whole site just showed this and nothing else it was really really funny and i have no idea about the origin of this meme i'm sure there's a good story there but it it pops up and it's just so joy joyful i just i didn't realize this was too you oh yeah yeah mario um and yeah this is a classic yeah even my wife chuckled at this one i saw the footnote i checked the footnote so yeah merge is coming update uh let's be excited uh eastaker bankless the daily gray will be live we believe on the eastern foundation channel we'll

have a uh pixel art all right sorry a poep canvas painting party uh jonathan mann will be there we'll hear from a lot of folks who have been instrumental and we will watch together and we've decided it's taken a while to get here we're not going to focus on the pandas anymore we're going to focus on finalization which is a more appropriate focus than something we know that's going to happen let's focus on finalization right right as a milestone to celebrate yeah yeah that's been one of the issues i mean i've complained about this before but you know it's uh and i wasn't on the girly merge uh call because i was sound

asleep but the um yeah this you just don't know it's gone well until sometime later and even if it's gone superbly you don't know for like 20 minutes and there's never a point to which you can kind of like stand up and cheer and pop the champagne it's just kind of yeah and that's kind of weird as people we need we need something we need a moment to attach to um and uh you know i i've always said you know the viewing parties that we have they are really the opportunity for the community to be together to watch something they are not an analysis or a confirmation of success

they're just a chance for us to experience it together and that that you know in the past we've had you know i want to say gurley took an hour at least to uh to finalize yes those are some tense moments if you're just staring at a screen trying to trying to stay engaged yeah absolutely um yeah i'm quite glad i wasn't on the call it was uh very early morning for me and i knew the australians would be all over it um but uh yeah in the end it went okay right i mean if if mainnet goes like gurley i'm not gonna be disappointed that that's okay i mean it you know yeah a couple of hours after the the girly test net merge it was all fine now in the event it was a bit bumpy uh participation was down

block production was down um a couple of hours of you know reduced capacity on on the chain but you know if if that's what it's like for mainnet uh eventually yeah i mean look at that expect 88 it was only ever up to 91 is before the match was its um participation so and you know people will not have upgraded for better tricks and stuff so as much as people don't want to acknowledge it this is the network operating correctly like uh we're succeeding here yep so it may not be 100 participation but the beacon chain is built for this type of resilience so it's okay yeah exactly right and you know i'd

rather see it go beautifully and just transition and not a single miss block but in reality realistically it is not going to be that smooth we will lose block proposals we will lose participation it will take a couple of hours for some operators to um you know debug what they did wrong in their configuration or uh you know come back online or you know the last minute panic upgrade that they've got to do it's going to happen but it but within a few hours we should be running perfectly smoothly again and i'm happy about that because it a loss of participation so i do want home stakers to upgrade but i know that they have other things going on they have jobs they have responsibilities

they have families they're not laser focused on the beaky chain like some of us are and so when i see them fall off because i know many of them will fall off at the merge it's kind of this it's okay we have we have time let's take it a day or two and get you back in um those to me are still the most valuable contributors on the beacon chain they are yeah people who have other things to do but still want to be a validator so you come up with that yep yeah and yeah don't panic um you know you're not gonna get slashed you know unless you do something stupid which comes from panicking right you're not gonna get slashed just be calm um you know ask around uh

ask on your client teams channels ask uh on each taker um you know check the documentations uh and you'll be fine yeah even if you're offline for a day or two this is fine yep uh so early squirrels in the past it's successful yeah let's see i love this line the merge does not need to be perfect it's not going to be perfect let's stop asking for it to be perfect let's just get it done 100 let's see there was a lot of good coverage of this so i happened to see that yeah yeah it was um very positive as well i mean i it was you know i was a bit surprised a bit hesitant to open stuff up on the morning because i'd seen the devs channels and kind of was like

oh this this went wrong and that went wrong and the other went wrong and focused really on the kind of failures and then i opened up the various press stuff uh and it was all like big success okay this is fine yeah yeah but i always try i try to temper like the outcome because i i never know like you can't know in the middle of a call and i'm afraid that's what journalists take away from it journalists are they're they have that potential to take away you know that that 30 minutes after the pandas the uncertainty um and and that that's just not the right takeaway so i am glad to see that it was reported accurately um we're still counting shadow forks is

that a thing yeah are going to be a few more main net ones uh before the event um they they just they're pretty much routine now um but uh we're gonna keep cranking those out until the the day itself yeah very valuable but uh i think now everyone is more likely to focus on the test net mergers the success of gurley oh so yeah prepping for the merge samarasat the man yep so uh he's got the girly merge configuration staking guides done they these are super i mean he did these very early on in the kind of life of the beacon chain was pretty much the first comprehensive guide um pre-launch if i recall correctly because i configured my note according

to his guide so i've got no idea about system d process and all of that these days i mean i i'm old school unix i'm not you know yeah yeah oh wow system d replaced uh what was that there was a thing in it for years yeah there was like a five-year battle of systemd versus net i forgot about that yeah yeah so i couldn't be uh couldn't be bothered to learn a new trick so i just followed his guide and it's it's been brilliant it's set things up beautifully um and um so i'm so glad that summer is still engaged still updating things and you know he's very good at coming on our client channels and validating his his his work making sure that you know

he's got it right um and and he's accurate so yeah all about him this is brilliant yeah i really appreciate his consistency because it and the same for coin cashew they've both been around since the beginning of the beacon chain and they've continued to upgrade update their guides it would be challenging for someone to feel like you know oh i use this guide but it's no longer maintained what do i do now um so i love that they're continuing to serve the community yeah so those guys he's very clear they're not merge ready they're sort of girly merge ready the differences should be minimal but just pay attention that uh i i expect he will update them uh pre-merge um and eaststaker so essentially uh remy

and thorsten have been doing um these validator workshops they are so good i just love i just have it on in the background and listen to them they are so good likelihood of this happening so yeah um they are so wildly knowledgeable like i i have a fat talking head but uh when it comes to like actual nuts and bolts i really go to them and say how does this work and they they do a great job explaining things yeah absolutely the knowledge is is deep um and accurate and i can't fault it just just wonderful um so infuriates continuing to run workshops

yeah uh almost go i think uh which is about people are running applications dapps so i think that's tomorrow so if you're running uh some kind of application that uses ethereum it will cover the changes which um are required um on on that side which is minimal if anything but uh make worth checking in just to to see what's um what's up uh this is a great merge configuration checklist it feels a little verbose to me i'm sure it's the thing that someone needs um i i tend to prefer like three lines but uh this is very very beneficial to

anybody who like if you want an exhaustive checklist i found it very useful yeah uh there's they're similar on the launch pad pages as well of the uh the ethereum launch pad you can you can find us at a similar guide as well yeah and also eath wizard um that's remy's right yeah yeah so i'm not so familiar with that that's more in kind of your wheelhouse uh what do you think it's funny i i have to acknowledge and this is why i'm the worst youth staker ever um so remy develops eth wizard uh and thorsten develops eve docker um and these are like really they also develop the wagyu key generator um these are like really

really robust products they're almost so close to my face that i'm not aware of them if that makes sense like um when i'm on the internet like i'm scouring for things i'm like oh well that's cool and this is cool and let's talk about this but when it's something that my own team is doing i'm almost it's almost like out of my awareness so um i know they're doing great things but to my own shame like i i i don't uh promote them or i'm not as aware of as aware of them as i ought to be yeah i mean i keep half an eye on on these things and it's looking good and stereo is is the other one um yeah and uh yeah i mean you know your dream of

kind of one click staking is is coming closer and closer um continually it's funny it's like um this is the thing i've been begging for for years and my my own team is doing it in front of my face and i'm still unaware of it it's it's terrible but i do deeply appreciate um all of the folks who are you know the reason i'm not ashamed of it because i'm not doing it for me they're doing it for the community and it's it's a great service and i do appreciate them uh explainers yep yep yep uh distributed you know go on i wanted to go on a tangent on this but you can go ahead and yeah do your tangent let's do it

well you want to introduce what dvt is in general real quick yeah distributed validator technology so uh so i'm writing this book thing right and um i've been thinking about consensus lately what is you know i'm just trying to break things down into their sort of basic most intuitive definitions and things like that which is really hard but what is a consensus protocol and what i came up with is something like a consensus protocol is a way to build a reliable distributed system on top of unreliable infrastructure and yeah that's that's the best i can do in terms of distilling it down and distributed validated technology takes that to

another level so we've done that with the ethereum proof of stake base protocol we as we were saying earlier it does not need to be perfect we can go through the merge and we can lose a good fraction of the network and the thing will still keep working it's a reliable technology reliable system built on unreliable infrastructure um you know nodes can come and go the network can have all sorts of trouble and it will just keep chugging distributed validate technology takes that to the next level by making each validating entity each stake building that across multiple instances of hardware so you can have a single validator built across let's say four

staking rigs um and you can lose one of those you know for maintenance or network issues or it forks off for some reason as a consensus bug or whatever any reason you can lose one and the other three will still be able to continue to validate effectively on the network and it won't miss a beat and you know that that can be expanded so you can have like um five of seven or something you know is is fine uh and so on and so they have a separate consensus protocol between themselves layered on top of the the other consensus protocols and the ethereum proof of stake protocol is designed to facilitate this so we have the bls signatures and so on which you

can aggregate and um and so that that's it in a nutshell is that that makes sense is that okay and i have this my issue is that having been a home validator since you know december 2020 and after having learned how really easy it is to just keep my machine plugged in um and hearing you know many of the proponents of dvt are like you know they kind of promote threat scenarios and i so as i'm reading through these tweets then i do not know marco at all not i'm not judging what he says i know that he's he's trying to prove a point but it's how confident are you that

you're not gonna get slashed well i'm actually very confident that i'm not gonna get slashed because i'm only running my keys in one location so that's not a concern there was another like uh if something goes wrong you lose your money and i'm like ah really like you're you're gonna leak a little bit but no you're you're not gonna lose your money and so i feel like a lot of the the dvt message in order to bring success to dbt in their way diminishing the value and simplicity of solo staking and that's that's i think why i have so much difficulty i i think that's fair um and yeah i

won't defend those statements um i think there are interesting applications so i mean we had some banter about this last time about you know your toast from my toaster making a um a dvd cluster i mean you know you you can effectively extend the the breadth of who can get involved by having this kind of infrastruc infrastructure because you still need a certain amount of kpi now you and i are pretty confident we can keep the nodes running right but um we can be much more relaxed about bringing on people who are going to struggle if if we have this kind of um and this and this extends so

uh you know the other thing that we have in common is um concern about lido and the centralizing forces there they have a long-term plan to decentralize right and whether that sees light a day or not i i don't know but i'm going to keep needling them about it part of that part of the reason that they need to gatekeep the protocol now is they they want to maintain a quality of service so they can only on board operators who have a proven track record and commit to certain service levels um so they can't make it permissionless they can't on board you know um joe public to to to lido as participants because yeah they can't guarantee that

you and i are not going to act in some you know bizarre way or or maintain uptime but using something like the distributed validator technology where we share infrastructure across with other states and it doesn't matter if some of it is particularly unreliable allows them to onboard people permissionlessly to the product or semi-permissionlessly at least better than um than what they're doing now which is to totally gatekeep the whole process um so yeah i think there are definitely good users here i think i would love to see the selling points of dbt focus more on the future value than problems that are currently already solved i i guess i i just fizz cannot get away from this

desire to see home-based solo stakers yeah that's all yeah it doesn't necessarily take away from that i mean effectively it could imp improve on this on where we are today and you know you and i and a couple of others you know remy new york we could uh get together and have a distributed validated instance between us and then none of us needs to worry about a bit of downtime or upgrades or whatever and you know um uh going on vacation and worrying about whether you know remote access into our nodes we can reboot it or any of that stuff um we can we can just leave it and it's more reliable to do than it is for us each to run

independently um and that's you know have very little overhead definitely yeah it's definitely a valuable product i i guess i just uh yeah i i have my struggles and it's okay i have my struggles with a lot of things that are going to come whether i like it or not um dvt is good uh i just you know i i'm not in love with the marketing around it i guess that's all yeah yeah i i think that's fair i mean i but um yeah don't don't don't lose sight of the the technology it's it's an enabler for better things it's it's in a it's a good thing i mean it's an infrastructure level thing which will will make staking more robust um i did want to point out uh phil's article

on uh the road ahead for ethereum like clients just because i have tremendous respect for phil and i love what he's done with lighthouse still very eager to see them uh yeah i should say on the launch pad kind of uh like yeah yeah i guess they're waiting for the results of some audits uh to get that going uh yeah yeah not 100 certain what the the blocker is there uh yeah i think that might have been it i did i did here i can't remember now bankless on the merge that's uh it's on their radar they were very excited about it on the roll-up last friday

yeah yeah yeah uh i guess um yeah let's see ethereum cat herders some fella never heard of this guy adrian suton presented teku in the merge just kidding adrian is an absolute gym watch and listen to everything he does yeah um some great insights uh that that that was brilliant i handed it off to uh adrian putra asked me to do it i thought i'm not gonna do nearly as good a job as adrian so i uh i put him in the spotlight and he did a wonderful job um some tekku specifics um much more general um and good q a um is worth worth uh

uh 40 minutes of your time at 1.5 x stefan and vasily did me v boost i haven't listened to that i may i may listen to that uh just because i i'm interested in that perspective um even though it's it's one i don't expect to align with it's just something i'm curious about yeah i think we have to understand what's going on here i mean people who care about decentralization care about the state of the network and the future of ethereum you know we we need to know in detail what is happening what are the real risks and you know we've seen it over the last few days with this whole transaction censorship thing and the tornado cash thing and all the

fallout around that um and suddenly we're talking about censorship resistance and uh there's a lot of assumptions and misinformation around and i think we owe it to ourselves to educate ourselves about what is realistic what is feasible what is actually happening under the hood and then we can comment wisely for one thing and we can also actually you know help improve things whereas you know acting on stuff we don't a pining on stuff we don't understand we're acting on stuff we don't understand properly that's something it's not the right it's not the right root thought that's something i personally struggle with um and i i'm okay acknowledging it because i'm i'm human but i i see something that

uh for example whether it's mev boost or whether it's um dvt and i don't i don't have a full grasp of the whole picture but i formed an opinion and you know i'm always asking myself like is it okay for me to share my opinion even if i don't know everything about it um it's you know it's kind of a tightrope but yeah yeah and i think there there's there's definitely a personality type um dimension to this i mean you know myers-briggs is uh some people love it some people hate it but as an intj i am not somebody who leaps in with both feet and voices and opinion i will i will sit there and absorb and watch and learn and listen and then

eventually it will probably take somebody to ask me my opinion before i will you know come down and come with it but it will be a strong strongly informed opinion by that stage so you don't tend to see me on twitter leaping in and uh um yeah just but when i do put up a flag it tends i tend to have been on quite a long journey to get there and you know it will be something i've um something fairly deeply held by that stage yeah so i'm an entp i am an idea promoter so that is yeah we may have differences there but um you know i i don't think either is necessarily wrong um i guess the value is in understanding

who you are and what yeah uh what impact that has in the whole ecosystem yeah exactly right exactly right um good stuff with anthony cesano i love everything he does um and he's doing a lot yeah that showed me the crypto thing was a bit of a monologue and boy can he talk i mean he can but i love it i listen to his daily way practically every day and that's literally 30 minutes of him talking straight and i don't get bored of it so yeah i did go back and see you know actually actually watch the youtube rather than just listen to the podcast just see if he did actually breathe he he does breathe um but yeah it's all

it's all good stuff it's quality stuff but uh can be a bit overwhelming uh let's see what is wonder highlight this pico the current design must trust all oh oh mev boost um so i highlighted this because of the word trust and i'm always like i'm trying to get away from the need for trust and one of the requirements of med boost is that you trust a relayer which yeah that's kind of my fundamental difference with mev boost like i know some people need or want to extract maximum value from the network and i acknowledge and that's like that's their right for me there is great value in

not taking every red cent but in giving value back to the network so um we can all agree to disagree on that one i guess yeah yeah um and again this has been reignited this whole conversation because of the you know censorship thing when you've got one one or very few block producers on the network or you know one or very few relays then these become natural points of censorship um it's hard to see how this is going to play out but i've always maintained that's that's the worst case scenario is we end up with just flashbacks producing blocks we need a an ecosystem of block builders uh and relays

um eventually this the trajectory is to get this enshrined into the protocol so we we take out the trust element at least but that doesn't necessarily fix the you know single point of failure or single point of censorship issues so we still need a thriving ecosystem on that but this this point this paragraph was all about the um proposal to have a um uh relay monitor design so uh relay monitors so alex stoke is stokes is um started a conversation around you know what kind of architecture what kind of information what kind of dashboard do we need uh in order to surface and make transparent the activities of the relays so that we can

see who is behaving well and who is behaving incorrectly or poorly in the in the system and then uh then individuals takers can make their own choices about who they use you know the um thinking of the tornado cache thing like in in some ways that's a terrible assault against ethereum but in other ways if we didn't have those terrible assaults then 99 of the participants would be lazy and not care and assume it's going to hap you know take care of itself and they're not we we won't build a resilient network if if we're not on our toes about the potential for censorship so yeah totally um i think it's

pricked the bubble of complacency to a degree it's reminded us a bit of what we're actually about um censorship resistance permissionlessness is yeah these are fundamental tenets you know people have joined in the last year or two may not be fully aligned uh with um and it's a is great to have a reset it makes us ask ourselves the hard questions right i mean you know to what extent do we are we prepared to fight for censorship resistance at the base layer and that boils down to very personal questions like if the uk government said that attesting to a block containing a

tornado catch transaction was illegal you know would i still run a node how would i go about it um or would i exit or what you know what what would i do and those those are questions we need to have answers to it's obvious we'd move right like that's that's always i would move like um yeah i i was gonna offer my answer but it's it's really not about my answer it's about everyone thinking that the thinking about those questions to themselves like do we want to let ourselves get into a position where we have to make those decisions or do we want to build a

protocol where those questions will never be asked because the protocol is hardened against them from the beginning so yeah yeah and you know you can build permission stuff on top of permissionless but you can't do it the other way around and so fundamentally i think we we have to fight for the base layer to remain credibly neutral i mean uh there's a whole big discussion uh going into that um and although i think a lot of the twitter discussion is overblown and kind of fierce things which are never gonna happen i'm still happy that the questions are being asked um you know i don't think some of the doomsday scenarios that are playing out on twitter are remotely

realistic but it's still good to ask the questions because you know what if it did go that far um regular calls so all core devs which actually we're gonna have an exciting one this thursday um it's gonna be an affirmation or a potential affirmation of the uh the fans the big ttd number yeah uh that may not may not take long and then we'll then we'll go on to the more interesting or dull stuff about governance um depending on which side of the fence you are but i always when i introduce people to awkward devs um i'm always like uh listen past the first hour uh because the good stuff always happens at the end

like it's it's kind of like this um what is it survival by attrition like a lot of people are going to drop off but if you can make it to the end you're going to hear the fun stuff maybe yeah maybe this uh call 93 consensus devs nothing there it's kind of a boring call i guess yeah you agree nothing was interesting so i tiffed with christine and i mentioned this before about um the delay but i'm really just loving what she puts out uh so i really appreciate it i abs absolutely and uh i don't know if i've i've said this before i've said it on on the podcast i used to do with her but uh christine wanted to interview me a few years ago after some event in

london i i spoke at and um i refused because on the basis it was coindesk and coindesk hated ethereum and all of their reporting was completely um you know biased anti-ethereum stuff and so basically i i just ghosted a blanket and then a couple of years later we we met up at devcon and you know uh struck up a friendship it wasn't until later i remembered that that actually it was her that i'd refused to speak to before that's hilarious and she impressed me because you know what she was writing about ethereum was she was truth-seeking i mean generally you know sometimes editors um kind of stitch up their their reporters but she was you know

actually trying to report accurate stuff and then she might have picked and chosen what was kind of you know in her view important and so forth but just normal journalistic stuff but you know a heart she really wanted to understand what was really going on um and she's doing a terrific job following the uh various governance calls we we do in writing them up and uh yeah really really understands the space i i'm kind of developing a short list of journalists who i feel like are really trying to get it right rather than sensationalize or essentially pit ethereum against bitcoin um and it's it's nice that we do have journalists in this space who are actually trying to get it right yeah i mean christine's moved on from

journalism now and is working kind of a as an analyst but uh there are there are some good people around upcoming events anything you want to shout out here uh yeah you got eat today community cool 20 coming up i don't know anything about the swell team um yeah anything you can share we had a pre-chat with them um it's it's an interesting design and uh to be honest i this is a call kind of like stake wise we we should have stocked with steak wise a year ago and we just delayed it it just didn't ever come to the top and we didn't want to make the same mistake with swell even though you know it took us a while um swell is an interesting design

it is um it's kind of a hybrid of several approaches but essentially a node operator puts up a bond um so an unrecognized node operator will put up i think a bond of 16 ether and on their on their uh staking page people who want to to use them will will select an actual operator so um if i were an operator there i could put up 16 ether and then people could say i trust superfiz i'll stay with him and then they get a direct uh one-to-one correlation of the rewards and so it's an interesting design i wonder

i have some questions about the legality of it but that's something that i think time will answer okay interesting so is is it a competitor to rocket pool or is it is a different sort of take on on on the rocket ball thing i'd say it's a competitor to rocket pool uh it is it's a similar model in that you so rocky pool obviously uses a smoothing pool where all deposits are kind of wrapped together and the success of all of the operators is paid out to uh the holder with swell you essentially choose the person who choose the operator or the entity that

you trust and give your east to them so it is i think of it a little bit like a hybrid between what as in the same way stakewise is a hybrid between the rocket pool model and the lido model which are they're kind of on extremes um and then you have you know the center which is the hybrid approaches cool cool i might tune into that one sounds good sounds good yeah looking forward to hearing um taylor uh at the um block works seminar so um i hope matt cutler and d5 dad will forgive me for just calling him a couple of guys i'm starstruck by taylor because we had a merger with um

well um we acquired uh my crypto um taylor's now part of consensus and i find myself on the same slag as as her you know i'm a long-term fanboy a genius yeah absolutely so uh yeah yeah looking forward to that um speaking of which i you know i was looking at let me see if i can find it i'm not going to find it i was looking at the merge call and it is as often happens with ethereum stuff it's a bunch of people who look the same and i i really i so i appreciate

people like taylor and you know uh we have nyx on east staker now um i really look forward to bringing more diversity to the ecosystem and i kind of think the only way we do that is by actively talking about it and it's like so every opportunity i get like i really feel like it's important for us to appreciate gender diversity uh racial diversity geopolitical diversity um yeah anyway yeah yeah it's what we're all about isn't it i mean uh diversity at every level um of the stack uh tech and people um i'd like to shout out danny ryan's finalize 36 just because i relegated him

to other news which i feel like about it was just kind of repeating stuff which which i'd already said so yeah it's good stuff um it is and that's i guess the thing you know we want to see the same information from a lot of different sources um and uh as always stereo is a great platform for people who want to solo stake from home using a graphical interface their platform is extremely robust and i encourage checking them out great i think we are done you probably stopped talking after an hour and i probably kept talking

i think we i think we're good if anyone's still listening thanks everybody for joining us and um oh next will be the hundredth issue of what's new and eth2 so preemptive congratulations to you and uh i look forward all right buddy have a great day thanks youtube let me figure out how to stop recording so senile there we go