Unfiltered Interview: The Laptop, The Token, The Pardon, And More

Transcript

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>> Roll up is my favorite. People >> from all walks of life, all over the world, all over this industry come together for the rollup. [music] >> [music] [music] [music] >> Zoom Now, the institutions aren't

coming. They're simply here. Taste the golden age of crypto, guys. Get right. Let's go. [music] >> Welcome to the nest. See you on the show. >> Look who we got to the tower, guys. Look who we got to the tower. What's up, baby? >> Good to see you, brother. >> Just flew in from Florida. >> Fresh off the plane. >> Boys are buzzing >> straight here. >> Straight to the interview. The Hunter Biden interview. >> Welcome to the rollup. Today's Monday, September 14th. You're watching the roll up live from the tokenization tower, the capital of finance, the financial capital of the world. We had an insane stream today as well. Totally epic show inside you. There are two wolves. There are two wolves inside you. Uh it's up to you to decide which one we're talking to

today. >> Yeah, we got we we already got some interview. >> It's been a little minute since I've been in the tokeniz tokenization tower and it is absolutely buzzing as soon as I pull up. >> Yeah, man. I mean, we've got people in here. We got meetings. We know that things are coming all the time, man. It's uh it's it's fun energy and uh I'm ready to have some fun. It should be a fun interview. >> Well, all right, guys. Let me give you kind of the rundown here. We've got Hunter Biden. Obviously, we're in this. >> He's gonna be joining in about 8 to 10 minutes. >> Um he launched this memecoin called Laptop. And I just want to give you guys something first here before we start. Uh just so, you know, kind of set our set our script and set our base straight.

Today's guest is Hunter Biden. You can just go pan me here. He launched a memecoin called Laptop on base last week. The rollup was not paid for this interview. Neither the company nor anyone on on the show holds any laptop tokens and we have no fiduciary or financial relationship with this token, its founders or anyone connected to it. We were not compensated in any form. We were not complicit with the launch in any way and we do not hold any of the token. Nothing in this conversation is investment advice. Nothing our guest says has been independently verified by us. This is completely live Hunter Biden unfiltered. Memecoins have little to no intrinsic value and are among the most

speculative assets in the market. For context, laptop is currently trading around 99% below where it hit all-time highs and the founding team holds about 30% of the supply. We're here to ask questions, not to promote anything. Do your own research and don't put any money in anything you can't afford to lose. And I I think that's a great summary for today's interview with Hunter Biden in a few minutes, but it's also true of really all interviews that we do on the show. I mean for from the very beginning when we started the rollup six or seven years ago this has always been for primarily our own educational purposes but also for everyone who watches educational

purposes. It's so that we can learn. It's so that everyone who engages and watches our content can learn. As always do your own research. None of this is investment advice. And as always um do your own research before investing into anything. Um, but I mean for research purposes and educational purposes, we're gonna have a lot of fun today. Uh, this is my first time chatting with a former president's family member. I think it's Andy's first time as well. We have a lot of questions. >> I mean, we're going to trace this thing from the very beginning. We're going to get an understanding of the laptop itself, the kind of story that it went through, why it was the centerpiece of the Russia hoax and the 2020 election [laughter] and why Hunter Biden decided

to launch a memecoin, >> dude, >> called Laptop. And then we're going to get into several other facets of what this story is. >> Guys, we have a ton of questions. It's going to be a lot of fun. I mean, look, we this might be the biggest week of the rollup yet. I mean, we've got some of the biggest brands this week on the show, more people that are unnamed that we will kind of slowly walk out on Thursday and Friday. But today's all about Hunter. And let's just kind of get into some context. So, this token was launched 5 days ago.

>> Um, and it got pumped up from a very small liquidity pool. And this is very high level. We're going to get into all the mechanics. It got pumped up like to a valuation that was larger than most public companies. Maybe not most but quite a few, right? It was in the hundreds of billions and it is down 99%. And Hunter might put out a video, you know, and he was explaining what happened and his side from what we understand is that they spent months and months trying to launch this token and it completely flopped on the day one due to uh the market makers and the other participants involved. Whether you

believe that, whether you buy that or not, that is up to you. But we're going to hear his side of the story on the token, >> but really we're going to hear his side of the story on the laptop. >> Yeah. And we'll we'll get into exactly what happened with the laptop, which has been >> played out through mainstream media as 2020, >> but there might be people unfamiliar with the laptop itself. And so we're going to get into that. >> And I also think that there's an interesting conversation here around memecoins broadly. If Hunter Biden was not associated with this and the ticker wasn't laptop, my question here from a fundamental research point of view, is it possible to launch an ethically moral, justified, and valuable, interesting, and fun piece of technology

like a memecoin. Trump did it. Now, Hunter Biden has done it. We've seen memecoins paired with stocks, public US equities. So there's certainly some sort of interesting financial experimentation going on, but obviously there is some very convoluted moral and ethical qualms when it comes to launching these things. The extraction of value from an audience. Is it purely entertainment or is there some real financial underpinnings that can serve as whether it be a collectible or an entertainment mechanism or some way of of you know moving value around you know

between a community and we've seen you know how several other creators have done this. >> It's just that the community has been so negative. I mean and it's and rightfully so. I mean, we saw the Trump launch and what you're trying to get to was like, is there a way to do this? >> Possible to do this, right? That is my question because I I think we've we feel this sentiment towards Hunter Biden's laptop token because we've seen this before and we feel like we've been beaten down and every time >> we got beaten down by Trump, all right, he killed our entire bull market before we see another celebrity launch a memecoin. It never it always fails.

Inevitably, it fails. And so my question is, is this thing was this thing destined to fail from the start or is it actually possible to launch one of these things that does a good job? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I I I hope to just kind of unpack, you know, not necessarily Hunter Biden's attachment, which we will get into, but the mechanics behind this because there is some interesting mechanics. I mean, and we we'll get into this, but there's a prediction market mechanism. There's a mechanism that there's a mechanism that >> apparently donates some some proceeds to charities. So it feels like there's potentially al I don't want to say altruistic. I mean that carries a lot of you know other other you know character with it but there's there's mechanics in here that may not have been tried before and I'm for financial experimentation

from a purely like try it see what happens and learn from that experience and maybe we can get to a place where we are able to launch you know helpful instruments. Yeah. And I think he learned and I think this was I mean I saw a post that was kind of signifying that you know maybe this was attempted in the right way in the sense that maybe it was it was tried you know that that the team actually put in effort to make it work but unfortunately I think the execution was off. But again I'm not taking a particularity side here. Our goal with this interview today is really just to get to the bottom of this story for you guys, for the broader digital assets industry and for everybody who's a part of the show and the community.

Hunter Biden's also been on a bit of a podcast circuit. Not sure if you guys have kind of picked this up, but he's been on Bradley Martin, Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens, and quite a few others. And through this circuit and I've, you know, I've tuned in to a couple hours over the last couple of days as I was anticipating this interview. I've come to learn that he's looking to tell his story. He feels like his story has been told by the New York Post endlessly to the point where he stopped his crack addiction in late October or sorry, late May 2019.

And it was all the way through late October 2020 when all of this laptop stuff and all this stuff blew up and everybody assumed that he was still using and that he was still a mess and an alcoholic and all these things. And so he's just use this time to kind of tell a story >> and we're going to try not to get political Rob. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Because politics I don't really care about politics. You don't really care about politics, but I think politics cares about you and I. And so there's kind of a a way to go about this today, but you know, Hunter wants to tell his side of the story.

>> And and you know what, I think uh we've seen that this industry, the crypto digital assets industry, yeah, it has libertarian roots. You know, it is not it is is fundamentally contrarian. And I think there are aspects of the the digital asset industry that sort of have a mind of its own and are somewhat politically independent. And so I think that plays to our benefit in this interview uh and will help us remain neutral. And so why don't we give a little bit of context Andy for anyone who kind of lacks some of that background knowledge. >> Between 2014 and 2019, a lot of data and use was happening on this laptop. And so that is fundamentally when a lot of the controversial material

was created. And then in April 2019, apparently the laptop was damaged uh supposedly from some sort of liquid or water that fell on the laptop. It was brought to a Delaware repair shop. The guy who ran this Delaware repair shop, his name is John Paul Mack Isaac. He was the owner of the Mac shop in Wilmington. He said that Hunter Biden brought in a liquid damaged MacBook Pro on April 12th for data recovery, signed a repair authorization, and subsequently failed to retrieve it or pay the $85 bill, in which case this repair shop became in possession of the laptop.

When Hunter failed to retrieve the laptop from this repair shop, the repair shop was able to retrieve some of the corrupted files on this laptop. And after doing that and retrieving some of these files, the owner of the repair shop took a look at the files and said, "Oh, there's some very controversial material on this laptop." And contacted the authorities. Um, in the summer between the summer and the uh December of 2019, the owner of the repair shop goes to the FBI uh after he after he looked at some of the recovered materials and the FBI subpoenaed the repair shop and took possession of the laptop from the repair shop.

After a while, maybe like 6 months to a year, there was really nothing that entered. And remember, this is still when, you know, this is the run-up to the election. The FBI had the material on the laptop. the repair shop owner was somewhat frustrated that nothing was really happening. The FBI didn't really make any forward progress or engage the case at all. And so the la the the repair shop owner went to a attorney for Rudy Giuliani who at the time was working I believe with Trump. Rudy Giuliani became in possession of some of the materials on the laptop. Rudy Giuliani and his legal team ended up taking the story of what was on the laptop to the New York Post to crack the story and break the news.

>> Oh god, not what you want to hear if you're hunter. >> The New York Post breaks the story on October 14th, 2020, 3 weeks before the election. Its first major article focused on uh Hunter getting an email from I'm going to mispronounce this name, Vadim Pazarski thanking Hunter for an opportunity to meet Joe Biden. Okay. Um subsequent stories focused on Hunter's Chinese business dealings and the famous 2017 proposed equity email containing the phrase 10 held by H for the big guy.

obviously in a lude as far as buying or selling something for the big guy aka the president. The material clearly raised questions about Hunter trading on his family name. So we've got multiple convolutions here. We've got Hunter involved with Chinese business dealings. At the same time, we've got Hunter involved with this uh this Ukrainian natural gas company that in theory allegedly paid Hunter Biden or his family for a meeting with Joe Biden.

There was multiple after this New York Post article, there was a ton of investigation into the material on this laptop. It was corroborated by investigators. However, there is still open controversy with this laptop. >> The laptop was at the center of the Russian hoax, which we've heard now President Trump talk about as stealing the election away from Trump in 2020 and giving it to Joe Biden. >> I hear you. >> And so, was Hunter Biden and his laptop complicit in some sort of election fraud in the 2020 election? That remains an open question.

Well, I think Hunter is all about one minute away from joining us on the show here, guys. So, I think we have a lot to talk about. Thank you, Rob, for the in-depth explanation of the chronology or the chronological order of what happened here with the laptop. I mean, what a day. What a day for the roll up for to bring Hunter in here. I think he's just ready in the back room, guys. I mean, look, we're in the Empire State Building. It's We're 77 floors up. I mean, give a smile, Rob. Look outside, man. Let's have some Wall Street. I mean, look. I mean, you got you got uh Jersey down there, right behind Rob, guys. You got Brooklyn right behind me.

You got the One World Trade. I mean, we're 77 floors up. Can he get much higher? I don't know. Maybe we can ask Hunter. Maybe we can. >> There he is sipping a coffee. Yeah, I think he's had a long podcast tour, >> so I'm uh anticipating a little bit of uh some speaking fatigue potentially, but I think we're going to fire him up. I think the live show brings you a bit more energy. It brings you a bit more oomph, you know, it brings it brings a little more to the table. Guys, we are responding to the chat. I see Yatsi, I see Edward, Katsu, Jade, Celeste, Eton, Batty, Jimmy, Quantum, etc. Guys, if you have questions, we will have time at the end. We're going to go into the laptop.

We're going to go into the token and we're going to go into everything else. If your question fits in the everything else category, we will make sure that we get to it. We'll try our best. We've got our own set of questions as well. And guys, we are I mean, we are moments away from Hunter Biden joining us here live in the nest in the Empire State Building. We are here in New York City. It is a beautiful 600 p.m. We're post US Open. We're post World Cup. We're postNBA finals with with the New York Knicks. I mean, what more can you ask for? The city has been delivering for the last three months like I've never seen a city ever. [laughter] So, I'm pretty excited. Hunter's in the back. I believe he is ready to join. Um,

give us about 30 seconds, guys, and we'll get Hunter up. See you guys in just a moment. Let's get this thing started. Let's go, baby. Let's go, man. [applause] Let's go, Hunter. Give us about 30 seconds, guys. Let's hit a quick standby. We're getting them. We're getting them. [applause] [music] [music] [music] [music] We get

deep know we get deep. We get deep. We know we get deep. We get deep know we get deep [music] know we get deep we get deep know we get deep we get [music] we get deep we get deep we get we get deep [music] know we get All >> [music]

[music] >> right, guys. Are you ready? >> Let's do it. >> Are you ready? >> Let's get Hunter up. Let's get the show started. Welcome to the Hunter Biden interview live on the rollup. It's Monday, September 14th. Let's get this show started. Hunter. Hunter, welcome to the show. >> Hey guys, thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. >> Yeah, I appreciate you coming out. I know you've been on a bit of a podcast tour. Appreciate you spending some time with us, man. Um, what's it been like last couple weeks? You've been real busy.

>> Well, the last couple weeks, the last five days have been a handful, I'll tell you that. We had, you know, the the launch of the token didn't go exactly as we planned. Um, uh, we had a we had a a little bit of a glitch there at the outset, but I think we got things straight. So hopefully we're evening out and stabilizing things and getting people some answers. >> Yeah. Um Hunter, let's start from the beginning. The ticker is laptop. Why did you decide to launch a memecoin called laptop? What is the significance of the laptop?

>> Great question. So here's my idea behind all of this is that number one is that a long time ago I was orange pill and uh I I have to read in the internet of money and I and I have uh an affinity for all things cryptocurrency and when I uh saw a number of the of the launches and celebrity tokens but particularly the Trump token in last year what I saw was them kind of flipping upside down the the the way that should be done. And so I decided that it would be really cool um partly as a troll against them, which is what a meme is in a lot of ways, at least the way that I look at it, and

partly as a uh an attempt to reach a whole new audience of people that for the last four months or so, I've been talking to and and learning a lot from. And that's people that are between the ages of 18 and 35 that are deeply deeply imshed into cryptocurrency that are largely apolitical, but they have a real um uh belief in kind of the libertarian principles of uh of of democratizing um finance. And so I decided to launch a coin that had tokconomics that were completely different than uh most every other, you know, celebrity or or political um uh meme token that's been

launched. And part of that was building out a 20% airdrop at the outset and a uh this 30% prediction market. Uh that was the first ever token to have it. and 30% to the team vested over two years um uh doesn't unlock uh begin to unlock even in the first 6 months. And so that was the whole the whole plan. And uh it was kind of and I we're working our way back and we're working really hard to set things right. But the fact of the matter is in in the first literally 5 seconds um uh it it it all kind of blew up. And it blew up because what happened was is that a a global market maker, one of the largest market makers in the world um

that we had uh uh contracted with to uh be our market maker ended up um u ended up um uh only putting in about $5,000 worth of liquidity at at the outset. um when they had over a million uh they had million uh dollars in uh in cash liquidity and and 15.5 million tokens available to them. And so uh why they did that, we still don't have an explanation, but that caused this incredible spike. So if you go look at the chart, we launched at 50 million. Yeah, we launched at 50 million and then the the the token's market cap went up to 316 billion which is larger than um you know the the market cap cap of Black

Rockck. I don't think that token has ever gone that high. I may be wrong about that but a meme token I don't think so. and and it crashed all the way back down, which gives this impression that there was some kind of a 95 99.9% uh drop in the value of the token when in reality, you know, we launched at 50 million. Right now we're about about I I don't I didn't check right before I came on, but about 250 um FTV and um which is right where we kind of wanted to be right now, but it it uh the the messaging at the beginning was completely um uh u overshadowed by a uh an an I don't understand how it's just

not pure gross negligence on the part of the market maker. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Hunter. So, we have all the notes and details here. And I think just to kind of set the set the record before getting into the mechanics and the launch. Every social token or mimetic token, it kind of requires a strong story, right? You have to have this kind of social story that really brings people together and there's a shared understanding of some sort of concept, right? Could you maybe just just like explain the laptop to us a bit? like the laptop concept. What the hell was on the laptop, Hunter? What even happened there? Like, you know, you can ask chat, you can see the iCloud files online from what I've heard through your other

interviews, but what is this laptop, man? It what was on the laptop? >> This is the whole point is that I think that my whole story um uh and the narrative that has been told about me is something that that uh that everyone can relate to at least a part of it. You know, part of the laptop is a um uh is is real, you know, quote unquote the laptop. Okay? It's literally 20 years of my digital life that was stolen from me. 20 years of every photo, every deleted photo, every email, every deleted email, every text messages, every voicemail that was ever left for me, all from a multiple sources of uh laptops, phones,

uh uh uh iCloud, and and every single corner of my digital life. And it was just dumped without context um uh uh on to the um uh into the media and online and utilized by you know my u my my worst enemies um or at least my my father's worst enemies to um uh to to draw up a a narrative that didn't resemble in any way the reality. And so part of the reason why I I I what I was attempting to do with this meme is reclaim that's what was taken from me, my narrative, my story, and and not live in the shame of what they tried to do,

which is I don't think there's ever been two words that um or three words put together uh more often over the course of the last four years, four or five years than Hunter Biden laptop. And so they had, if you think about it, they we did a little bit of a study a few months ago and they generated over $9 and a half billion dollars of earned media um that they put in their pocket. And my intent of this was basically to to create to to appeal to a community of people that very few people that are of my political bent are talking to and talk to them about ways in which I think that we're connected. I don't know. I

think that what 85% of Americans have had some kind of a hack of their digital material. And also to um to make this point is that of every message, every email, every text, every photograph, they did not one find one single piece of evidence of any criminality on my part or my father's part. They found drug use. They found um you know uh me and in in rooms with women um that maybe I shouldn't have been in but uh you know between consenting adults but not a single message that uh existed on the laptop that they were able to use in any way or in any context to show that there was any of the uh uh proof of any of the conspiracies that they were um they were

spinning. that is that is still open as far as I understand it. Um, you know, we still have the the current president out there claiming Russia, Russia, Russia, and the laptop seems to have been at the center of the Russia hoax, quote unquote hoax. But what you're saying is that none of that was permissible in court. None of that was ever found as evidence. And there was no crimes of any sort of election fraud or election meddling by Russia or some sort of coordinated Russian disinformation campaign that appeared on that laptop. Is that correct?

>> Yeah, exactly. Not only was it not evidence that was permitted in court, it certainly if there was evidence, it would have been permitted in any court. And think about it, just think about it from a common sense perspective. If they had any evidence of any of uh the things that they were claiming that came from my laptop, they've had it now for close to 7 years. They've had all of the information. You can go right now and find it yourself online somewhere and it's it's out there. No one has ever um uh taken it down. It's everywhere. And there's not a single thing that implicates my father in any of those things that you just said, nor me for that matter. And the truth of the matter is it the laptop or what was called

quote unquote the laptop. My digital life that was exposed to the world was exculpatory. It it exonerated me more than it implicated me in any way. But here's the thing, guys, is here's what they did. They took this device, they called it a device. They took all of this digital information and they combined it with pictures of me smoking crack in a motel room. And you know what? It's a hell of a lot easier to believe that somebody's capable of, you know, some of the things they were accusing me of if you're looking at that picture and you're looking at the story that I was radically honest about. I was radically honest about my addiction. I don't know of anybody that's similarly situated as me, particularly in politics, that has ever been more

forthcoming about what they struggled with with addiction and and and the resulting consequences of that. And as I always say, you know, addiction is um uh it's never an excuse, but at least it's an explanation. It's an explanation why I was in those motel rooms. It's an explanation of why I've wasted as much money I did during that two two-year period of time in my life. But in that respect is that the whole purpose of of of launching this meme is number one is I truly do believe that cryptocurrency meme tokens coins have the ability to to they're a tool they have and and you can build something with the tool or you can

you know use a hammer to tear down a house. And that was the whole idea behind it. And I think we'll get back to it. By the way, I'm I'm, you know, everybody's going to say I'm crazy, but I'm bullish about it. I I think that once people kind of uh log into the to the uh the actual tokconomics of this and and see the the uh the prediction market mechanism that's built into the coin for the first time ever in a meme token. I think they're going to see what the what the intent was and um and and follow it pretty pretty closely. At least I hope so. I think we still got a shot. you know, from the outside.

Obviously, it looks a little bit rough off launch and we're going to get into the mechanics and that hunter, but just to kind of like reaffirm the kind of what I would consider the foundation here is this is this laptop meme, right? There's the Dogecoin and there's the there's other meme tokens and there's other tokens out there. Even Bitcoin could be argued as like it's a meme, right? It's a fixed supply, you know, electricity powerbacked asset. And so the laptop backing of this of this meme token, you know, you're kind of getting to the lack of implicating evidence that was on the laptop. Um, but the story, the way that it reads is that it was

you've become part of a political warfare and this laptop has become a political warfare device. And obviously Trump, you know, will claim that, you know, that the election was rigged and that um, you know, that this laptop was part of it with payments to Ukraine and Russia and these things. How do you just rectify that part of the story of this meme? How can we get people to actually want to rally behind something that kind of feels a bit tainted? >> Because the truth matters and that's the whole point. The truth matters. And by every time you mention the laptop now, anytime anybody mentions the laptop, they will not only associate it with the the story that was told to them, but the story that I get to tell now with pride about who I am, what it proved, what it

did not prove. The fact of the matter is is that I'm reclaiming my narrative. And that's the whole point. And I think that there are so many people out there without any hyperbole that literally have had these stories told about them in their own personal lives that don't resemble any truth whatsoever. Look, man, here's one of the things I go around and people talk about like, "Oh my god, you were, you know, you were an addict and you were an alcoholic and you had this." Do you know anybody that isn't that that doesn't have a brother that had problems with alcohol or addiction? and and and maybe not not anybody that has a brother or sister or mom or a dad or a kid that's in rehab right now that is looking for help that's crying for help that's desperate

for help that and many of them never make it. I made it. I made it through all of that. All of the of the weaponization of the laptop. And I think that there are so many things in everybody's lives, okay, in which what is happening to them is is is exactly what is happening to me. In which they are taking the worst things that happen in their lives and people try to create the entire narrative of their life after that out of that. Well, here's me saying this is they did this incredible service. They dumped it all out there.

And I had to wake up one day and either decide to own it all, own all the stuff that was true or stay in bed and die. And I chose to live. And I stayed clean and sober through all of that. And all I am, it's here to say it's not about whether you get knocked down, it's how you get the back up. And I got back up. And that's what I wanted the laptop to be a a symbol of. And that's what I believe it can be a symbol of is a symbol of the story of resilience. That's what I think.

>> I appreciate that. >> Yeah. And I I think that speaks to the intent that you have around the memecoin. It it sounds like, if I understand you correctly, the intent behind this is to reclaim your story, reclaim ownership of your story or even the IP that other people, like you said, I think you quoted $9.2 2 billion that others have profited as a result of telling the quote unquote laptop story which you're saying is yours to tell. This memecoin is a mechanism to reclaim ownership of the laptop IP. Is that the intent behind this token?

>> 100%. Exactly. That's exactly it. That is exactly it. And to do it in a really novel and fair way. And that's the 100% the idea behind it. And you know, I mean, I am I I was so proud of the amount of work that we did. You know, I I came on to X about six months ago and and we started um I I started having discussions about all this other stuff and I started to gain this following and then the idea of this became it just like stuck with me. It stuck with me on so many levels, but more than anything, the level that it stuck with me on is this is that I thought we could build something that's different that reversed all of the tokconomics that made certain that it was not just purely a max extraction uh attempt on a community

that was unsuspecting and do the exact opposite and while at the same time reclaiming that's what was stolen from me. And literally and figuratively, what was stolen from me is my entire digital life. And I would say this to everybody out there. Just think about it from your own p from your from your own life. Would you hand would would you hand over your entire digital life to your worst enemy? And or if they stole it, would they have the right to go and take things out of context and in and and uh and create their own narrative out? So, I wanted to get I want to get it back. I want to claim it back. And that's exactly what I've been doing in every

single way that I can. >> Yeah. And again, appreciate that, Hunter. One last thing about kind of like the laptop concept before we get into the launch and kind of how it all went and then kind of go from there. When you think about the how far and wide the laptop permeated the press, I mean, from what I understand, you were using until midy year 2019, you went sober and then it was about a year and a half later, October 2020 or so, when all of this really broke out. And you know, people thought you were still using and they thought that you know, you were still an alcoholic and a crack addict

and all these things, but you had been sober for a significant amount of time at that point. And so when it comes to this laptop, I mean like people are going to say that you have used this laptop to corrupt the US uh state of affairs with uh your father as the standing president, taking backdoor deals, taking backdoor, you know, uh cash payments. People are going to say that this laptop was used for nefarious purposes, right? People don't know that when all this came out that you were sober. I just want to understand like what was the process of of having all this kind of come out and you were you had already been sober but obviously you

were a recovering addict. Just kind of walk us through a little bit of like what that kind of >> crack you know high was for that period of time. >> You got off and then this all unfolded. I just think that that part of the story I'm a little bit fuzzy on still. >> Yeah. So, you know, after my brother died in uh 2015, I I um you know, I I lost my I I mean, I I lost um uh I lost my bearings in the most significant way I'd ever lost in my life. And um and I'm again, it's my my experience is not unique in any way. I'm not like claiming

victimhood, you know. I I know people lose people and um and but my brother to me was, you know, the center of my my my life and um since we, you know, I was born and and when I lost him, I I lost a a u all confidence in the idea that there was any kind of future. And about a year later, um, uh, in a in basically in an attempt to what I think is just a a coward suicide, I decided to do the most dangerous thing that I could possibly do. And I went to Lincoln Park in, uh, Washington DC, which is, you know, uh, uh, literally four blocks from the White House. Um, uh, my dad at the

time, uh, was the serving his last month as vice president. [clears throat] He was not president. And I bought crack. And um and I knew why I was doing it. I was doing it to not only just obliterate the the way that I felt, but also potentially just to obliterate me in in uh in reality. And and it almost did. And that that began about a 2 and 1/2 year uh journey of uh ultimately at towards the end of where I was literally smoking crack every 15 minutes round the clock. I would go sometimes um without sleeping for um for days and days on end. And um and and even more dangerously adding on to that which was

probably uh you know potentially worse for the long my long-term health was drinking about you know a quart of vodka at least a day on top of that. And um and so in May of 2019, I uh end of April and uh the the first days of May, I um I met someone. I mean, it was like a miracle. And uh my wife now, Melissa, and I don't know, it's a long long story. I won't get into it. We don't have enough time. I'll come back and tell you guys it. But it's truly like it you'll think I it it out of context it I anyone would would understandably say

you're insane. But I met her in in um and about 15 days later we ended up getting married. And that first meeting though that I met her I I I hadn't been with any civilians in um you know in in months, months and months and months. in civilians meaning not somebody that isn't a you know an addict um or in that life and uh and she looked at me when she looked at me I I knew that she saw into me and she saw that there was still a person there and I confided in her everything and I told her I was addicted to to crack and um and what she did is she said that ends now and within a and literally within a couple weeks it did

and then my last drink was June 1st 2019 so two your question. >> Yeah. >> Here I am trying to like repiece my life together, make the amends that I needed to make to particularly my family and to particularly my daughters for being absent in their life for a time in which they needed me as desperately as uh as uh I I needed them. And they had been trying to save me. And and so I was spending all of my time uh dealing with the wreckages of the of that past of that of that recent past. And all of a sudden, this laptop drops out of nowhere, the quote unquote laptop from Rudy Giuliani. And the first thing that they do is they go out and they purport

that it contains all of the things that you guys are talking about. All of those like, you know, oh, it's like election interference or this. It doesn't have anything to do with any of that. What it contained was mainly the thing in which became the the most uh uh traded commodity of that laptop was the pictures of the pictures of me deep deep into a dehumanizing addiction and it was um and it they just spread everywhere and um and then what they were able to do because they ran those pictures of me like I was on the cover of the New York Post in in a one-year period of time more than anybody in the history of the newspaper.

And none of it was good. And so they'd run the picture and it and with a headline that didn't have anything to do with u me smoking a crackpipe in a bathtub without a shirt on um or you know uh blurred pictures on the inside with women and obviously um in delicate delicate situations. And what they did is they were able to blur those lines and conflate it. So I understand is what people thought while my dad was president is that I was out there you know like running a crime syndicate and you know what meanwhile what I was doing is I was working my recovery and I was living a life and trying to do the next

right thing and I and not only trying to do the right next right thing but I was sitting here literally piecing my life together um you know pixel by pixel painting by painting that I was making when I my dad was president, my entire income from my art was no more than about $200,000 a year over the 4-year period of time. But you tell that to anybody and they'll think that like, you know, like what are you talking about? He was running a crime syndicate when the actual reality was the exact opposite.

>> And so that's >> the rumor is the art was used for or was bought by UK Ukrainian or Russian Russian [laughter] money. It was rumor for the art. >> Yeah. But every person that bought a piece of my art um when uh over that 4-year period of time, every single one of them testified before Congress under oath. You can see it all online. It's part of an over the oversight. There's not a single person whose name was made uh transparently public. >> Yeah, Hunter, I think what you describe is extremely important for this day and age. The the self-obliteration that you're talking about is something that I think a lot of people are going through.

a lot of people are feeling whether it be the loss of a family member or it be significant trauma that someone might be facing in their personal lives. You know, we have this concept that we talk about on the show which is this concept of nihilism or financial nihilism most most specifically and you know that can manifest itself in a variety of ways. And so we see the proliferation of gambling instead of investing. And we see people going into self-obliteration behavioral tactics and traits and and doing things because they feel like there is no future. Whether it's AI that's going to take over the world and kill us all or you know the rampant inflation that is going to inflate any

sort of reasonable lifestyle away. No one can buy a house ex you know that is something that people feel for a variety of reasons. And so given that you felt that at a very visceral level, you chose to launch a memecoin, right? So you know how it feels. People have said that memecoins are a device that has per prop perpetuated that feeling of financial nihilism. And so help us square this circle. How memecoins can actually be a device to not experience financial nihilism. They're not just for speculation and gambling. They're actually a device to help bring us back from that feeling of financial nihilism

because you've been there. You've looked into the belly of the beast and this was the conclusion that you drew as a way and means of avoiding that feeling and helping others avoid that feeling. Can you help us understand how we can use memecoins to avoid financial nihilism? >> Well, that that that's exactly it. Like one, we'll start off with this is that the memecoin has no investment value. It is not an investment. It is not worth anything other than it being a collectible. So, you know, like all the like legal disclaimers, but it's also true. But here's the thing that nobody gets outside of this community. And in this community, they're so goddamn vicious, so self-defeatingly goddamn vicious as as it relates to

other people that try to do this. Is this the whole idea of the meme, the whole idea of the token is connection. The whole idea is to be able to be build uh to build an audience of like-minded people that get to have honest, transparent, and radically um uh transparent conversations with each other through the um support and vote for this idea, this idea of resilience, this idea of reclaiming the your narrative, this idea of the truth matters. And I by virtue of that and financing of that get to go out and I get to do 460 my 460 bit podcast and talk about all these things

>> and that's it. >> And I mean really I mean it so that isn't that what the meme token was about is is doing that >> and so here I am and I create a tokconomics that literally is is the exact opposite of max extraction. Exact opposite. And by the way I'm a capitalist. I want to make money. Let's just make something clear. This is not a a But I get to where >> where else in the world where I get to at least the a 5% guaranteed minimum of this coin potentially up to 35% more likely 15% of the coin ultimately at the end of the day goes to charity. All charities is related to addiction and recovery. Many of them dealing with vets that I've already chosen. And where else in the world could I go be able to

generate in in in in this economy the ability to be able to give that significant amount of money to causes that I that publicly transparently to show people that you can build community. And let me say this too, from my experience of being out there now for over a year, beginning with the Andrew Callahan uh show that I did and and the audience that I spoke to, I don't know of any more people that are tied in, comprehend what's going on, but I often times feel completely disconnected from being able to do anything about it. And this is a way to connect them. That's why I did it. That's why I believe in

it. And that's why I am genuinely genuinely like just out of my mind frustrated with the um uh the way that the market funded the liquidity in the first 30 seconds of the uh >> of the launch. >> Yeah. And Hunter, I have notes here, so it's let's just get into it. So, a few key things happened, right? You guys didn't pay any Koss or you know be you didn't pay any media. You didn't pay any advisers to try to pay us to come on the show, try to pump the token or anything. >> By the way, maybe that was a mistake because we got slaughtered in the uh lynch, right? But I'm not sure anybody really wanted this token hunter if I'm being honest, but that's just the reality of of what's happened.

>> Um most of the exchanges lined up to support bailed out of fear of admin backlash. This is what I've heard. Um it was whether it was just because Trump or your your name and likeness. That's what we've heard. And then basically there was market makers that were given tokens and they were meant to make the markets with cash and tokens and they put the tokens up. So here we go. There was 9 million tokens given to a market maker. The market maker and also had $500,000 of cash to make the market. They put 30,000 tokens and $5,000 into the pool on open with 84% of the tokens priced at $2.39

$2.39 against the 5 start. About $2,000 of buying exhausted the cheap side and a single $250,000 order took the price to $83 and it printed $316 about 2 minutes in. This is all verifiable onchain, guys. This is this is onchain and AI here. Three minutes after the open, they pulled their ask out with about $650,000 of cash and left the pool with 66 tokens and no orders for five minutes, which is where these absurd prints came from.

Through the afternoon, they kept 30 to 40,000 of bids against 500,000 in the wallet, while a side wallet sold 500,000 tokens into the spike, netting about a million dollars. From what I understand, Hunter, you and your team did not make any money on this launch and um you guys completely lost the entire hope and faith of of CT and this has gone down as a absolute uh extraction event and that is what we pulled from onchain. And so what do we miss here, man? like give us your side because right now it really just looks like Hunter Biden rugpulled the whole community because well the rumor is there's some IRS debt that you

have to pay off. >> Yeah. Well, no, there's no IRS debt. I can promise you that. I went through two I went through a bunch of trials to that point. So number one is this. Nothing of this has anything to do with my own personal financial situation. But everything that you just read is absolutely 100% true. For some reason, a global market maker, a leader in in the industry, decided to launch with 30,000 tokens, less than 1%, we gave them 15.5 million tokens, I think it was, not just the 9 million, and five and and and and a half a million in in cash in order to be able to run a liquid market. And what they did is they put $5,000 in with 30,000 tokens. and it just did what

obviously it would do with that under being under capitalized uh with with not enough liquidity. It went up to 316 billion in the first two minutes and then it just obviously we then had worked it down and over the course of the day but the damage was done and it's hard to see how how potentially I I I mean look look just put it this way it's gross negligence. We have the initial reports of that being the the baseline of where we're at. Then we are now commissioned two independent reports in which we're going to make public as soon as they're finished. And hopefully they'll be finished by the end of the week at the latest a week from today and which everybody will have a 100%

transparent look. And know this for certain what you said, we have not made any money as the uh uh off of this. There has been no extraction on the part of uh of of the partnership that organized this at in any way and we will be able to show that we'll be completely transparent about our wallets. the foundation has its purpose and then you have the liquidity pool and which as as you guys know the the the treasury and all of it is working as it is supposed to right now and we will be 100% transparent more transparent than I I mean than at least a lot of our of the people other peers if not anybody about exactly what happened.

Hunter, I'm curious just what what did you expect to happen? Like what? Here's I'll tell you exactly. >> How far off were we here? Like >> miles off. >> Miles off. So, no, not you guys, not miles off. Here's what I expected to happen. Okay. >> I expected to launch what was the the basically what I was calling from my perspective is the anti-Trump token to be a troll to to Yes. And the idea was this is that we reversed all of the economics. The whole point I had a launch video that was supposed to go that morning in which I go forward and I say he took 80% between he and his partners and max extracted $3.9 billion

out of the market, a 95% drop over the course of the year and 3.9 billion in into his pocket. whatever the case may be. Okay, a max extraction event of of a magnitude that is we haven't seen in a long long time. Here I was with the exact opposite of their economics, their tokconomics and was going to give and not going to I did I gave away 10% at at launch to um uh the substack community and that whether you free or paid subscription of mine by a certain date and I was going to give away about uh well that was 8% 2% to people who had retail investors who had lost money on

the Trump token. to make the point that there was a there was a better way to do it and I still think that we have the opportunity to do that but that was the entire intent with the idea of all the things that we talked about up until this point. So Hunter, the inspiration for this originally, the thesis was to reclaim the IP and own your story around the laptop, but you couple that with the antithesis of Trump launching his memecoin and together they fueled you to launch this both for yourself, but also in opposition to Trump and his memecoin and also Melania's memecoin and all the extraction that they took out of the industry. And so just to zoom out a little bit and generalize, when you look

at the Trump presidency and you look at whether it be the memecoin or it be the world liberty financial or it be the Qatari airplane or it be the amount of money that has been extracted by the family at both the crypto level and the general level. How do you reconcile with that? >> Yeah, there just guys there is no recon. It's still reconciling that zero. There's no way to reconcile that. There is no comparison. There's not even a remote comparison. I am a patch on their ass as it relates to all of the things that they if you believed every single thing that they ever accused of me of. I haven't done a fraction and I mean a fraction of what they're doing right now. I mean Jesus Christ. I got married

on a rooftop in West Hollywood for 500 bucks in a justice of the peace and he's there getting his, you know, private islands paid for by Russian oligarchs connected to Putin. And they're and and I'm the one that had to testify for two and a half years before Congress and um and and and a DOJ investigation. He Don Jr. got the largest private um loan from the Department of Defense, $640 million ever handed out to a um to a private company through his investment fund.

They have over $3.9 billion in DoD contracts in the last 580 days. Before, by the way, they were had nothing to do with um defense contracting, but all of a sudden they're drone makers. Okay? And it goes on and on and on. Just think about this, guys. Jared Kushner is negotiating peace in the Middle East on behalf of the United States while he's getting paid over $110 million annually just on the fees of a $6.4 billion fund from uh from the Saudis. Think about that. Think about that as we sit here 3 days past 9/11. He's getting paid $110 million in fees from the while he's

negotiating supposedly on our behalf. Well, who's who who's paying him? And my point is only this is that's the troll >> is that they don't get to take everything and turn it into He was going to be the crypto king. Remember the crypto president, the one that's going to turn everything around. He hasn't done He has made it look he's he's turned the meme token world. He's turned cryptocurrency into a giant rift. And by the way, it's all there for everybody to see. I'm not making this up. This isn't me being subjective about anything, any of this. It's all completely objective. And that's my point is, look, man, I just think that we can't give an inch. I think that

they've taken a mile, but it's not it's time that like people stand up and and say like for instance, in this industry, in this community, and say, you know, enough is enough. There is a right way to do it and there's a wrong way and that's the intent that I had and I and I'm going to fulfill that intent. >> So Hun there's a big clarity act vote tomorrow >> and the largest >> issue is the is basically Trump's ethics but really it's just ethics of any political >> figure in power exercising their status and their power for their own personal gain. Right? And so you've got these, you know, you got Trump, he launched this memecoin. You know, he had made

about a billion dollars on it or more. And the Democrats are like, "Look, we cannot have this happen again." And so we are almost at the finish line of the Clarity Act. And the Dems are just sticking their feet in the sand essentially saying like, "Look, we're not going to be able to keep doing this. If you know I if if Trump's going to do this and we can't swear this circle on ethics, then we can't get this done. A guy tweeted that you launching this memecoin somehow evened out the Democrats here and brought us back to square.

>> Why is that wrong? Is that wrong? >> Well, look, if the Clarity Act passes, I want you to know this that I'm taking full credit for it. That's what I'm going to do. >> What? >> Well, explain that. Explain explain explain yourself. Okay. >> Yeah, I'm kidding. What I know is this is I don't have anything to do with it. Here's the difference between me, Donald Trump, and me and Eric, and me and Don Jr. and World Liberty Financial and a $450 million UAE investment and getting bank status for blah blah blah blah blah. I'm a private citizen. Nobody in my family has anything to do with politics anymore. Nobody is an elected official. Nobody on the horizon in my family is running for elected office.

You know what? So, I get to do whatever the hell I want to do as long as it's in the bounds of of of fairness and ethics and and the law. And that's what I'm doing. I'm abiding exactly in from a bright letter as it relates to how to operate, how to how to launch, and how to um build a meme token. That's what I do. >> The launch just did not does not reflect that. I mean like >> oh by the way it it doesn't reflect it but you have the you have the um the readout right in front of you and you have the readout right in front of you that there's no extraction that happened on the part of anybody in the insiders but you know what perception can be reality sometimes so I'm not dis disagreeing with you at all we got to

>> what do you have to say Hunter to the people that lost money on your token >> what I have to say is is that uh our market maker completely screwed up and ultimately at the end of the day it's my responsibility and I'm going to do every single thing that I possibly simply can to make it right for them. >> And look here, here's the thing, guys. I could come on here like everybody else that ever has this uh issue in this industry and and a position in my a person in my position and say, "Hey, I didn't know what I don't know like, hey, I didn't have anything to do with this is a bunch of crooked people that were in blah blah blah blah blah blah I'm standing here. I'm si I'm talking to you. I'm and by the way and I'm going to talk to people tomorrow and

I'm going to talk to people the next day and I'm going to stay with this and be in it and take responsibility for it until we get it fixed until the end. And I believe that we're going to survive this and I believe that it's going to turn out to be exactly what I intended it to be. But you know what? One thing I'm not doing is this. I'm not saying that you don't get to ask me questions or that I don't I I don't owe you a um transparent answer. And I 100% will answer any question from anybody and you can beat me up because I deserve to get beat up for this in many ways.

>> Well, let's just get there then, Hunter, here because I mean I I don't want to beat you up, man. But do you think it would have made more sense to launch this on a centralized exchange or >> guys? Look, here's the deal. We had a centralized exchange listing, two centralized exchange listing that we were told guaranteed. Obviously, they don't guarantee it, but we were told we were launching on centralized exchange on on on uh on uh on two uh of the major major major major players and with 24 hours before um they pulled and they said no, they were going to wait and see. And the reason that they would wait and see and the only reason, listen, think about this, >> the only reason that we announced the launch of the coin 48 hours before we

actually did was because we were launching on a centralized exchange and they required us to do that. That's why and they required what and in that 48 hours what ended up happening is in that first hours is that you know whether it's bots or trolls on uh on crypto Twitter just tore it all apart before even knowing anything about the tokconomics it gave the centralized exchanges the excuse um for whatever reason uh political or otherwise I have no idea I have no insight into this to literally in the last minute pull a um uh pull pull the listing from us and say they were going to take a wait and see um uh look at it. And that's the only

reason why we ended up having to launch on a decentralized uh decentralized exchanges. >> And it sounds like you're blaming one market maker. Was there not like a backs stop market maker like a backs stop to the back political figures in the world? >> Also, centralized exchanges sound to be at fault here, not just the market makers. And my question is like Hunter, can you name names or I understand if not for legal names? But here's the deal, guys. You got to give me at least 5 days, excuse me, at least a few more days to be able to do exactly that because I want to make certain from a legal perspective that everyone that has any that I don't want to this up even worse. Not for myself, for everybody. And so I will, I promise you,

and you can hold me to it and have me back on and I will have a full report of exactly who, what, where, and when. And uh but at the end of the day is this. It's my responsibility to get these answers to you. You look 99% of the general public doesn't have a goddamn idea of anything that we're talking about. But of the 1% that matter that are engaged in this community, it is incredibly important to them. And I feel a 100% obligation to get every single answer and make right every single thing that I can make right. That's the only thing that I can say. And it sounds like you've given this significant thought.

Obviously, first off, it's putting together this report and understanding what happened, but you're already starting to think ahead about how to quote unquote make it right by, you know, your token holders. Can you give us some insight into what you plan on doing to make it right for those who might have lost money on the laptop token? >> Okay. I don't know uh exactly how how we're going to do that because first of all, I got to figure out this. It looks like at least like 95% of the of the of that initial money or at least that those initial transactions were driven by bots, okay, in the first um hour of the of the coin. And so, but if I can identify wallets that of legitimate retail investors, I want to be able to figure out what it is that I can or cannot do or what I can or cannot say.

And obviously, I need to do that in um in coordination. And this isn't a copout on my part, Robbie, at all. I promise you is that I promise you I'll come back on I'll come back on as many days and every day and bug the out of you guys with every single new piece of information that I get about how exactly and hold my feet to the fire on this is that okay well here's a way that you can make uh that you can make it right with people here's a way that you can do it and I promise you we are going to work towards doing that look man >> there's one thing that I said at the very beginning of all of this with to everybody that was in involved I said, "The one thing that this can never be, it can never be perceived to be a, you

know, quote unquote rugpull." And of course, what is the exact thing that ends up happening? The exact thing that ends up happening is that. And so, here's the thing. I've learned in my life this one thing. You know what? I've been knocked down I don't know how many goddamn times. And to the point where you people kind of go like, you know, are you just unlucky or are you stupid? I don't think that either one of those things is necessarily true. What I think is is true is this. It's all about how you get back up. And I'm not saying that like this is like some like heroic act on my part and I'm doing it, but all I'm saying is this is that I'm in it for the fight with full responsibility and going to answer every single question that I possibly can. And um and when I can name

names, I'll name names. >> Yeah, transparency is typically something that this industry has lacked. And so I I do appreciate the transparency and willingness to answer questions. I think we do have more general questions. One more I have specifically around the laptop token and memecoins broadly. Despite how this launch went, do you still believe that memecoins can be a device for good? Do you think there is a way to launch a memecoin correctly and serve a community? Well, >> 100%. Look, man. Everybody acts as if this is some kind of like backwoods, you know, uh uh you know, um a a community that, you know, like with a you know, like just a you know, a few alternative people are, you know, engaged in. I

mean, Jesus Christ, there's hundreds of thousands, millions of meme coins out there. I mean there is a um there's I don't know how many are launched on a on a daily basis and you know a lot of them are scams but a lot of them are real and a lot of them actually create community on a on a micro level and some of them on a macro level and I truly truly believe in that. I truly believe in the idea of it. I believe in the tokenization of things. I do believe in the idea behind all of this and I think that the idea is the most powerful thing and what we need are clear rules and we need a clear idea of how it's governed and and also transparency. If we're expecting

anonymity or as it relates to our financial lives, then you need transparency as it relates to how that th those financial instruments are deployed. And so that's what I believe in. and and I and I really do um but you know I don't know in this environment the to for instance the clarity act I'm not getting into the fight of the clarity act because I don't know the um uh the minutiae over it I only know the headlines and the headline being is that basically they want trans the the uh certain people that are inclined to to do all of the good things that the clarity act calls for um are uh are require requiring a level of

transparency and disclosure for people elected office. I think that's fair. I think that that's a reasonable expectation. Here's what I don't think is reasonable. I don't think it's reasonable the knee-jerk reaction of a bunch of people in the Democratic party to say that all cryptocurrency is bad and everybody engaged in it is somehow a criminal or a grifter or a fraud because that's just man. Yeah. >> And it's and it's and it's uh it's short-term thinking and it's actually not trying to understand what you don't understand in any real way. And so >> yeah, >> that's what I feel.

>> So Hunter, just kind of like briefly on the crypto side, do you own other tokens? Do you own Do you own Do you Okay. >> No, but only but only because I don't have any money. So uh that's the only reason. Yeah. >> You're out of money. And Hunter, I mean, there was actually something that just came down the wire, which is that the the Department of Justice, this only just broke in the last couple of minutes, says that millions in Iranian oil proceeds were laundered on Binance. And so I'm curious, do you think we should go full like centralize this?

Make, you know, nothing anonymous, just go full, you know, surveillance, everything onchain, like we shouldn't allow Iran to circumvent economic sanctions with cryp cryptocurrency, you know, this should be regulated hard, or do you still believe in, you know, the the ethos that you describe around this industry, financial sovereignty, privacy, anonymity, self-custody? How important should we take those values when we see some of these things like circumventing economic sanctions using cryptocurrency?

>> Yeah. Well, look guys, I mean, I don't want to um pretend that I'm a expert as it relates to u to all to all of that, but I am um uh I am well read and educated about it. Okay? And all I know is this is that the idea that the um uh the monopolistic banking industry is uh pointing the finger at cryptocurrency and saying that you're a hot bed of criminality in and money laundering when we all know that over the course of at least the five decades that I've been alive is that all of that um uh moneyaundering has gone through some of the largest banks that uh and and brand

names um in in the So the idea that you know uh that uh and by the way I don't know anything about the particular Binance case but where do you think that the where do you think the Russian um uh oil money was being um uh laundered through into into Europe and US bank accounts? >> Was it and I am not alleging any of these. Was it uh you know tell me about uh uh uh uh um your criminality in um in banking and and tell me the relationship between JP Morgan and Jeffrey Epstein.

And so I am not I don't think anybody's hands are clean now. What I think it requires is is oversight. I think what it requires is a rules for the road. What I think it requires is more transparency. >> Yeah. Can I ask you something about that? I is there any reason why you think during the Biden administration that your dad didn't release the Epstein files? >> Yes, because my dad had literally zero involvement with the Department of Justice. So, let me just give you the example in terms of the the um uh the common sense argument about this that I try to make is that if you think that my dad had any um involved himself in any way in in the Department of Justice and

that he just chose not to involve himself as it related to Jeffrey Epstein, then how is it that I was in uh indicted in two different federal courts by the Department of Justice and his attorney general, Merrick Garland, and ended up being convicted in one. I mean, he did not reach his hand into the Department of Justice in any way. And the reason that he didn't is because not only by rule, but by the norms that were created, particularly post uh Richard Nixon. If you remember, Richard Nixon resigned. And the reason that he resigned was not because of the release of the tapes. It was he resigned because he went to the Department of Justice in the Friday night massacre and fired the

attorney general and the and the deputy attorney general, I think, and a number of other people in the top leadership of the DOJ. And the Republican leadership from the United States senator walked down Pennsylvania Avenue into the White House in the Oval Office and said, "You got to go." But that is why my dad did not um uh involve himself in the minutia and the important minutia of what it requires an attorney general to do independent of the um the executive. >> Yeah. Um on a similar but different note um on with the you know transparency, power, corruption, this is all kind of rooted in the industrial complex and the military complex. It's rooted in these

deep deep roots of America, this deep state right? >> Part of this right now is AI and Hunter, I'm curious about your perception of this AI slowdown. You know, you got Dario and you got Sam Alman coming out and saying we need to slow down AI and what you're really seeing is the centralization of the future of intelligence in the hands of three or four companies. What is happening here? What's your take on this this AI centralization and what do you see as the end result? The p the public perception right now of AI leaders is terrible. I mean they are coming out and saying that we are going to be the human species may die in 10

years. AI is going to kill us. It's just a really negative rhetoric. Where are we at right now? And what one of the things that is proposed as a solution to this is the idea that the government should take a stake in these AI companies. And so again speaking to the point around centralization of power, what do you think are the ramifications of that happening if the government does take some sort of significant stake in these very powerful corporations with very powerful technology? >> Wow. I mean obviously this question is um is is the question of our time right it's the uh without um without a doubt is that we will most likely in in our lifetimes and potentially in very short

order be making the largest evolutionary leap in the in in the history of our species um in the history of of uh of humankind if we reach AGI and shortly after super intelligence and anybody that can tell you what is happens next I I believe is just purely full of Um because it I think is inherently impossible for us to know how that turns out in terms of what is happening now. I think that there is a mix of huxsterism combined with um uh with legitimate real fear of what could happen next. And that

uncertainty causes an enormous enormous amount of uncertainty among everybody. It's not as if these guys these guys go out and say things like, "Yeah, there's a 10% chance that you um uh that that humanity is um uh is ended um if we keep going forward." >> Well, my god, >> you know, I mean, here's the other side of it. >> There's a 10% chance that every single one of our problems is solved and we live in a utopia. Um uh but how do you find that middle ground? And I don't believe that there's any way um uh uh that anybody can necessarily answer it other than to say this is this is why it is so important

leadership is so important and that I am not saying that these are bad people but I do not want to leave the fate of humanity literally in the hands of Sam Alman. I don't I don't want to leave it in the hands of Elon Musk. I don't want to leave it in the hands of Dario. I don't want to leave it in the hands of any of those people. And I certainly don't want to leave it in the hands of the Chinese polar bureau. And so my point is this is that we are the owners of all of it. Everything that AI is built on is built on the literal fundamental creativity of humankind since the first cave painting, since the

first word that was written, since the since the uh the invention of the wheel. And that's not hyperbole and that's not an exaggeration in any way. And so we own that. Sam Alman does not own that. Dario doesn't own that. Elon doesn't own that. Nobody owns it except us. And so what I truly believe is that whatever is being built is should be collectively all of ours. Because you think about it, not a single thing that this AI that AI that exists right now or what will eventually become AGI could possibly exist without every single thing that we have provided

from, by the way, not just our our words and our and and our art and and uh and and the films that we make, but also literally our um our our genetic code, >> are all of the things that make us actually human. It fed into a a machine and then to only benefit a literally a handful of human beings to decide how we will um uh deploy and utilize that. There there is strong overlap between what you're saying and the philosophy around a lot of the people that build in the blockchain industry because it is around decentralization distributed systems and for that reason we say in this industry that blockchains

are one of the greatest tools for human coordination because it is quite literally the technology that is able to coordinate people without them trusting one another. We have the saying that is verifi. Don't trust but verify. And blockchains are the objective unbiased referees that are able to coordinate amongst people that may not know each other, may not trust each other. And that is exactly what you're saying. And it sounds like, you know, there could be overlap eventually in ways that AI could use blockchains to coordinate amongst state actors, stakeholders of these AI systems. I want to I want to double click on there's one thing I wanted to add to that.

>> Sure. Please think about a world in which the um in which uh how how does it possibly work with AGI and and and and the advent potentially of super intelligence without the blockchain for humans to to interact and and uh and and to uh uh coexist with each other over distances without the blockchain? Do you does the banking system work and um uh in in a in a world in which everybody has at their fingertips the ability to hack anything? And so my point is is that I I I think that the one of the keys to uh the potential for um uh for a way forward is the blockchain. And I may be uh you know I'm I am I I I listen to

a lot of really smart people but it was like you know that old commercial you know I I know what I'm talking about because I left at a Holiday Inn Express last night. So [laughter] >> yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. We're I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV. And so what I think you're you're getting at and we're getting at here is that there are people that are still distrustful of this technology, AI certainly, but also blockchain. And we see that, you know, with this Clarity Act that is going through the the the Senate right now. And one of the things you mentioned earlier on this episode is that you're a capitalist. And I think that is fundamentally separate from a lot of the political philosophy that we see in Washington DC right now and a lot of the people that oppose the Clarity Act.

There's a strong anti- capitalist point of view that is taking hold, taking some of the people in this country. And so, you know, given that your father was a Democrat, he was a president as a Democrat, you claim that you yourself is are a capitalist, but you see that some of the people within the Democratic party are fundamentally anti- capitalist. How how do you think we should think how do you think about capitalism and democracy and being a Democrat? How how can those two things still make sense, being a Democrat and being capitalist?

is that because I think that might be lost on a lot of people >> that it's a great question in in in this and by the way it's like you know I'm still I I get I I I am a um have the benefit of I'm not running for anything so I can I can test these theories out and and and and answers on the on the fly. I'm an FDR um uh Democrat. I believe in what the New Deal created. Okay. Whether you want to call that pseudosocialism or socialism whatever I don't think it is. I don't think anybody in America right now thinks that social security is socialism, you know, by the definition that the uh the way that people attack it or Medicaid or Medicare for that matter or the um uh you know or the uh uh interstate highway system um

for that matter. And so I believe that we are due for a new new deal. Okay. And as it relates to the idea of capitalism and believing in capitalism and not socialism, what I see as socialism is when a president forces a company like Intel into giving up 10% of its equity to to a government. What I see as socialism is when a government comes along in a new technology like AI and says we're going to own part of your co of your companies. You know, I don't I that is um uh that's not capitalism.

And it to me is uh to to use a very very very loaded word is um is is fascism is a way in which a government starts to be able to control and determine who picking winners and losers. So I see these extremes on both sides. Okay. I don't know why anybody in the Democratic party would ever decide that it's a good idea to throw on the word socialism into you know for branding purposes. It it it doesn't make any sense to me. But what does make sense to me is the idea that we need to get back to a fairer system in which normal people and I'm talking about when I say normal people just think of it this way.

Top 1% of income earners in this country, you know how much they make an average of $750,000. Okay? So 99% of us end up paying uh the the almost all of the um federal income tax in this country. Okay. You have 948 billionaires in this country of which families that are billionaires in this country of which almost zero of them pay almost any income tax whatsoever. We have to be able to figure out a way how to close the wealth gap. not the income back gap, the wealth gap. We have to give regular working people, people that

make anywhere between $150,000 to a million dollars, the opportunity to own a home in a suburban um uh metropolitan area, to send their kids to a school that's safe on a on a on a highway system that actually is um that that's works and it doesn't take two hours to go six miles with a transportation system that works with a um uh with all of the safety and security that a country as great as ours should be providing to every one of its citizens. That's what I believe. And so, whatever you want to call it, and I don't think it fits into the category other than this, is that Teddy Roosevelt gave us the square deal and he broke up all the monopolies and he did an enormous

service to this country by allowing for the the beginning of the creation of a middle class. And then FDR with the New Deal >> finished the job at at for that period of time. And I believe that we are in due we are due for a new new deal. And so both Republican, Democrat, I don't care what you call it. I call it common sense. >> Do you think cryptocurrency digital assets can help get us there? Get us to a new new deal and create a fair system. And how >> here it is. Whe whether it can or not, what I don't get with all of these people is this is it's not going away, man. You can keep saying that Bitcoin's going to zero and blah blah blah blah blah. Let's meet back here next year and let's hear you say Bitcoin's going to

zero and blah blah blah blah blah. I mean, it's like >> I think it's going to a million. >> Yeah, by the way, so do I. But my point is is that regardless, crypto is out of the barn, man. The blockchain is not some kind of like novel thing that a few people on the corner of the internet have to explain to each other and, you know, while they're in their mother's basement. I mean, Jesus Christ, the blockchain is a one of the most profound introductions of technology in as it relates to particularly our financial lives that has happened since I don't know when. And so this idea that like you better start to understand it because if you're not going to understand it, it's going to it's going to absolutely um leave you behind.

>> Yeah. Hunter, on that note, is there a specific financial threat or concept that is that every young American is facing? Like what is the biggest financial threat that every young American is facing now? >> I think that the biggest financial threat that's a great question. What is the biggest financial threat? The biggest financial threat I think for every American, a young American is uh affordable housing. If that if that's the the way that your direction your question was happening the the that if I could fix anything on day one if I became president of the United States and I know this sounds silly but it would be to fix the issue of rent in America. The vast majority of

Americans particularly majority of Americans between the ages of 18 and 35 and even greater numbers rent. they do not have the cap capability or the or the means um by virtue of a a lot of unfairness to actually buy. So as as a renter and all renters is that what the private equity companies are doing holistically across the entire country and creating monopolies and and uh rent um and uh rent control and not rent control. The opposite of is uh manipulated rental markets is just it's not sustainable man. It's not sustainable when Black Rockck comes in and they buy a thousand houses in in in a community for an average price of

$500,000. Sell they sell one back to themselves for $750,000 and increases the rent or the the cost of living in that neighborhood by 25% overnight >> and and raises their um uh market cap by by equivalent amount. It's just not sustainable. And when people it understandably they don't even see it necessarily happening to them because all of these things are happening in the background of their lives. So if you're a young person coming out of college or um uh you know graduating high school with an idea of a career and uh whatever it may be and and you can't afford you can't afford to live anywhere but back at your parents house. It is a really

really debilitating thing for community and we need to be able to do something about it. And here's the other thing about rent. Homelessness, the vast majority of homelessness is is caused literally by that is by families. Families that cannot afford to stay in their homes because they have to make a decision between paying for the groceries at the end of the month or paying the rent. And it's a god-awful position to put families in. Mothers and fathers that are literally trying to raise kids and send them to school and keep them safe. They can't send them to without um uh they can't send them there with a with a lunch.

>> And so >> I I know it sounds um you know like mundane, but rent >> Yeah. >> figured out how to do that. >> Um this is a little political, but I'm just curious your take on this. I think I heard this on a podcast with you and I'm just curious to kind of get to the bottom of this. Um people are concerned with um basically the president of the capital of the world like the world's power abusing his power right you could say it's Trump it's happened over the years right it's happened over the terms whether you agree that your dad did it or not to the extent that Trump did that's a whole conversation but there's definitely it's definitely in your face

more now right we have social media you've got, you know, these big Trump Truth social posts. You've got this whole thing of like, you know, I'm a political official. I don't have to follow the rules, like the rules are for you, not for me, right? And this is kind of creating this whole era of like, well, in the crypto industry, we say crime is legal. It's like, well, you know, if the greatest power in the world is doing this, then, you know, what what is what can we not do? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> What's your take on politicians abusing power >> and whether or not you think your father abused his power?

>> What what I I No, I do not think so. And but let let me give you a the bottom line answer is is that that's the nihilistic view that um that I think is the true existential threat to this um to the to not just the country but to the idea of a constitutional um republic. that um that idea that there that there is no um uh that there is no solution that there is no um uh that all politicians are corrupt that you know it's just a matter of degrees and variation well let me tell you something guys you know it's like that old um you know I don't you guys are uh too young but Sesame Street used to have this thing where they go which one of these

is different from the other you know and they would have a picture well tell I I mean you can put Trump in that frame me in every single picture and I can tell you how he has exponentially in magnitudes of um multiples uh different in the way in which he has um uh engaged in outright and and um rampant corruption. Just take the story last night as it relates to pardons. Okay? And there's a perfect example. Okay? I got a pardon and I got a pardon for my dad and by the way it was not good for the constitutional republic. It I was the only person that could get it and I don't think it was great for my

dad's legacy. But what choice did he have in in a world in which Donald Trump Jr. I mean Donald Trump uh is acts and engages with the Justice Department and his um and the uh underlying agencies in the way that he does and uses it as his own weapon. And so my point is is this is that I think that we are in a whole different world not because Donald Trump is a symptom of a disease. I believe that he is part of the cause of the epidemic of of what we are living through right now. And I know that people there probably a lot of people listening to this just think that like I have this kind of Trump derangement syndrome. But really, I'm telling you

from a from a from a keen observer over my entire life of being around it and seeing it is I know that it was never perfect and I know that there's never been a time and I don't expect there ever will be a time in which there won't be corrupt politicians. I mean like you know all you got to do is read your twain to figure out whether or not you know that time is ever going to come. And uh but I do know that there is a um uh that that that difference matters and we are in a different world under this leadership right now. And I don't know if you guys watched 60 Minutes last night with the with the um with the Yeah, exactly. I mean like it's just right there. And

then you see the thing about the wedding and then you see the thing about the island Albania and then you see they're going to turn Gaza into a golf course. And then you hear that Howard Lutnik's sons are getting um uh X Y and Z and um and uh they um uh uh you know tariff rebates for the going back to the family and like just all these things over and over and over again and it's just like I mean the jet from Qatar the you know all of it it's just a it's it's an on an order and a magnitude that I've never witnessed before and I think that matters. I think it really matters. I I've got um another you know tilt to this financial because you're describing

a lot of political nihilism which I think there is evidence for that and why that exists you know people tilt one way and the other and the pendulum swings and I remember you know number of years ago when a lot of financial nihilism was the result of like the world economic forum saying you'll own nothing and be happy and so how do we rationalize like you the the path that it seems very extreme but seems inevitable when there's a certain, you know, political party in in power and then the alternative that we're currently seeing right now in front of us.

>> I mean, is it the lesser of two evils? Is that what we have to settle with? How do you reconcile that with the idea that >> Yeah. Yeah. >> No, we have to find common ground. Okay. We have to find common ground across the political spectrum. And that's why I talk to the people that I talk to. That's why I go on Candace Owens's show. That's why I go on uh Tucker Carlson's show. That's why I just went on Ice Coffee. That's why I went on. I'm trying to talk to every single audience that I possibly can talk to, including the crypto audience, including the meme token audience in a way in which I can find common ground to be able to say, "Hey man, we all want the goddamn same thing largely and all we're told to talk

about and all we're told to worry about and all we're told to go and vote over in 2024 largely was to end the um the scourge of of trans women in courts. I mean, what the man? 0.5% of the of of the entire population is trans and they spent over $300 million in advertising about the issue and we're not supposed to actually go like like what what are you doing? Like right now is that we got a president of the United States who's literally telling people which is total and we all know it. I mean like unless he comes up with another trillion 1.4 for what trillion dollars is that he's going to give everybody a $5,000 check if and when the Republicans hold the um the House and

the Senate. I mean, what like what like what kind of world do we live in that the president even allows him to like take that as a remotely serious um statement? And so, >> yeah, >> what I'm saying is is that I will vote for anybody that believes in the Constitution. I just literally in the rule of law and what you care about all that other stuff. We'll figure it out later, man. We will figure it out later. We just need to save the fundamental premise on which this country was founded 250 years ago. That's it. And and and by the way, and the progress that we've made since then. And so I I'm Look, man, I hate like pushing away people that voted for Trump. I

understand why you voted for Trump because of exactly what I'm saying is that we need radical change and the belief that you may have had whether I think that there was a um that you should have had it or not or you should have been forewarned or not is that we need radical change is that we cannot have a $40 trillion debt and continue to expect that we're going to be able to act and behave the same way that we have over the past five decades. We need a radical change in the way of the distribution of wealth. Not in terms of some kind of socialist idea, but giving people a fair chance to be able to live a life in safety and with um certainty about how their children are going to be raised.

>> That's it. >> And it by the way and and it's doable. It's doable. >> You know, a lot of us in this industry have this kind of more libertarian view of the world, more of a separation of money and state view. We, you know, there's this kind of deep rooted philosophy that a lot of the issues that we're, you know, kind of pontificating on here are a result of this kind of combination of money and power and this kind of corrupt and neverending deeprooted human desire of power. And one of the funniest examples of this, Hunter, is Nancy Pelosy's insider trading. And it is absolutely a the epitome of what we think, you know, this

kind of more open financial system is going to look to prevent and look to kind of like push away. What you know, I know you have a take here. I know you know things that the the world doesn't know. Man, what is the deal with Nancy Pelosy's insider trading? How has she enriched herself so much off of a couple hundred thousand dollar salary to have a net worth of so high based off of trades that happened very coincidentally from the highest level power? What's happening there? How do we prevent this type of stuff from happening in the future?

>> Okay, you passed the um you pass a law that bans um members of Congress from ever um from engaging in active trading of stocks. That's what you do. I mean, it's the Stock Act, and you should have passed it uh like 35, you should have passed it 50 years ago, 54 years ago in 1972 when my dad became United States senator at the age of 29, one of the youngest people ever elected coming off of the Spiro Agnu um uh resignation uh which was Nixon's um vice president. He did so my my dad made it made made a commitment before he got elected. He said that if he ever became elected United States senator, he would never own a stocker bond personally a uh purchase a stocker bond in a public

company. And he kept that commitment over uh up until he left office uh uh 600 or so days ago. And the reason that he did is because there's an inherent conflict of interest if you have direct control over a um uh o over over money invested into a company of which you have oversight authority potentially. And so it's one of the things guys that I don't get and I promise you I'm not I'm not avoiding the whole Nancy Pelosi thing that you're that you're saying here. I literally promise you I don't have any insider information about her stock trades or whether it's her husband who I know is very wealthy or whatever it is. But it sure ain't just Nancy Pelosi. It is it is across the board. It

is Republicans. It is Democrats. It is it is across the board with very few people ever taking the position that my dad did and holding to it for his entire public life, you know. And sometimes I kind of get annoyed with him that he did that because, [laughter] you know, it wouldn't it may have been things that may have turned out a little differently. But my I'm joking aside is this is there you go. There's something that 75% of Americans can agree on. You know what else they can agree on? 75% of Americans could agree on that there should be some universal access to affordable uh health care or health care in which you are able to get preventative medicine and um uh and like every other industrialized nation in the world and there's about 10 other issues

that are 75% of Americans believe in and you know why we don't have them because of some really really really rich corporate interest that spend a lot of money to make sure that that doesn't happen in Washington DC and that's the radicalism that I'm talking about it. That's the idea that if you whoever comes in next as long as they believe in one thing is the rule of law in our constitutional republic. All of the issues that we used to argue over are seems almost fringe at the moment. You know, the only one that is infringed is that we have a $40 trillion debt and somebody better get serious about it real soon.

>> And Hunter, when I asked you about if you own any other uh crypto assets, you know, you made a a kind of like semi-joking claim that you know you don't have any money. Not to dig into your personal finances here, but what is the status of your of your kind of >> Yeah, man. I look I when I say I don't have any money is that look, I make enough money to be able to um uh support my my life right now, which is pretty modest. Okay. And and and the reason for that is because, you know, I have to rebuild. You know, I I I the consequences of addiction can go on for a long time. And then on top of that to have had to go through not had to but I I went through no victim here everything

that I went through over the past four years that of of the administration there wasn't an ability for me to be able to re rebuild my economic life. I was disbarred. So I don't have a law degree because of the conviction. I hopefully one day we'll get it back. But I have to be able to figure out how to um how to go forward. and I'm doing it and I'm gonna do it and I'm not worried about it and I I know and I'm actually actually having a an incredibly productive and enjoyable time trying to rebuild uh that world with the support of Melissa and everybody around me um and all the things that I'm doing.

>> Yeah. And you know, we thank you for your time. I mean, as we come to a close here, I can't help but think like my my kind of closing thought here is, you know, we've we've talked a lot about nihilism. Like we we highlighted so many problems with the current state of affairs like from Nancy Pelosy's insider trading to Trump's, you know, business dealings to financial nihilism to political nihilism. But, you know, one must think of Cisphus as happy pushing his boulder up the hill. So like how do we how do we go forward right despite all of these issues despite AI potentially going to kill us all in a matter of months like what is your outlook on the future that keeps you moving forward? Yeah, disconnect from

your algorithms. That's what I think everybody and I don't know whether I can ever uh that'll happen. But I am a uh I mean man I I I I still so strongly believe in this country and its people. I really do. I mean for all that has happened and for all of the um um everything um that is uh uh gone on. I really really really believe in us and I think that uh we can find our way back. I really truly believe in the in the constitution and I do believe that there was a providence in in in his creation although it uh imperfect in in and is had to evolve over time. And so I just

am an optimist, man. And I and I think if if I wasn't, I wouldn't be out here like like uh you know, fighting as hard as I am to be heard. >> Yeah, Hunter, appreciate your your time. Um hope >> guys the for real it's so easy and understandable and I would not have um in any way um uh failed at you uh to um uh to to to beat the out of me during this period of time. And um and I just really really I want to tell you that it really meaningful to me that you um you you you asked me the questions and and and you

listen and now you get to say whatever you want and people can um hear it. But I I really truly appreciate you giving me the chance to speak directly to the people that um uh that were maybe engaged in laptop as a token and that will be engaged in it in the future in every other thing that I do. So I really really appreciate it. Thanks. >> Yeah. Well, thank you. And you know, there was a lot of people haters out there that didn't want us to speak with you, didn't want us to platform you and support. >> Um, >> yeah. >> I I think, you know, whether it's, you know, people that made money or lost money or like this story or don't like the story, it's an incredible story and that's our job here is to kind of get the facts and let people make their own

conclusions. And so thank you for taking time and >> giving us the facts and you know letting us draw our own conclusions. >> Thanks guys. I really appreciate it. >> All right. >> Okay. Thanks. >> Wow. >> Absolutely. We'll see you next time. >> Okay. >> Wow. [cheering] [applause] >> Wow. That was uh that was unreal. That was unreal. Oh my gosh. It's dark outside. Holy wow. I mean, what do you guys believe him? Like, do you believe the story of the launch?

>> Wow. >> I mean, I mean, do you believe the anti-Trump rhetoric? >> Wow. >> Like, wow. >> Do you do you believe him? Like, I mean, where to even start? We got a dinner to go to. We're going to have to wrap this up, but wow. Let's just take a few minutes cuz, you know, I think there's a bunch of different threads that you could pull on here, but I mean, I'll just go out on a limb and say the seems like a heartfelt guy. >> I mean, he opened up to us like I mean, he opened up I mean, he >> whether you agree with genuine, you know.

>> Yeah, exactly. And whether you agree with his perspective and whether or not, you know, he's got all the facts straight and whether no matter what was on the laptop, >> it feels like he believes what he's saying. And so maybe what he's saying isn't true, but I think he believes it and I think he's speaking from the heart. I think he is genuine when he's saying that he wants to try to do something good. It is a little bit difficult as far as like, you know, whether he's doing this and he doesn't really have a very, you know, lucrative financial situation.

>> Yeah. >> You know, because then it makes it seem like he's doing it for the money. >> That's why I asked that's why I asked him that's why I was like, do you own any tokens or anything else? and and so it's difficult to reconcile with that >> overhang get this IRS dead overhang all this stuff >> and so I think that isn't necessarily supporting his cause but if you can overcome that you know and you look to his eyes and >> who knows maybe we'll get him on again he's going to be up here and we'll shake his hand we'll look into his eyes because typically that's when we can tell whether people are telling the truth >> yeah you know I mean I look I think he was genuine >> I think so too >> I think he really meant to do what he

was trying to do here Um, but I mean I'm I'm just I'm just not I don't know how they're going to be able to bounce back. I don't think they bounce back from this in any way, shape, or form. I don't think that there's a chance that the token like the perception is so bad. I want them to bounce back. I want them to be able to still do well, but this launch was terrible. Um the perception was bad and it's gonna be really tough to really be able to and I mean we told him this you know so >> yeah and I think I look I don't want to root against anyone. No

>> you know like this token doing well would do well for the industry. It's not like we should root against this guy. >> Tactical tactical empathy was obvious. >> I mean that is certainly something to watch out for. I I do think that um the part that I think you guys at home are going to have to draw your own conclusion around is whether or not it is the market makers at fault or is it the team and Hunter at fault. I think that is still the open question. The reality is that this was an unsuccessful launch. We don't know what happens in the future, but we have to we have to, you know, kind of take a look at what happened and

what, you know, why it went the way that it did. Guys, we're going to break this down tomorrow. We got a show with you guys tomorrow. We got Clarity Act vote. We got tons of stuff. If you guys are watching on YouTube, give us a like, give us a subscribe. Helps us the channel, grows the channel, helps everybody win. Uh, we're gonna go live tomorrow for like at least 45 minutes before clarity. Um, and we're gonna talk more about this. We need to take some time. We have a nice institutional dinner to go to. Going to hit that. Get some steak or something. Get some rest. Crazy week ahead. Market's pulling back a little bit now. But I'm not really worried. I mean, we'll see. We got the big day tomorrow. Tomorrow's the big day. So, >> Biden, that's the roll up. Signing off.

Hunter Biden interview. We're going to cover it more in detail tomorrow morning. That's it for now. Much love, guys. >> [music] [music] [music] [music] [music]

>> Everything. [music] >> [music] >> Everything. [music] [music] [music] Everything. [music]

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