Tom Lee on why the next five years belong to Ethereum

Transcript

In our view, Ethereum is still vastly vastly undervalued. One, we think that this is something that captures a lot of the future growth of the financial system as they move on to the blockchain. Ethereum put in one of its biggest pumps in history last week, but is this the beginning of ETH leading the crypto markets or just another hated rally from the world's biggest altcoin? Hello and welcome to the Milk Road Show, the podcast that knows that the bottom may or may not be in for crypto. But either way, last week was fun. I'm your host, John Gill, and today is Thursday, August 27th, and today we are joined by a young Ethereum analyst named Thomas J.

Lee. Tom is the co-founder and head of research at Funstrat Global Adviserss, the CIO of Fundstrat Capital, and the chairman of the board at Bitmine BMR. He is also a former chief equity strategist of JP Morgan. Tom and I have been in a race to see who can accumulate 5% of the total supply of Ethereum. He's got a slight lead on me right now, but it's not over yet. If that sounds like fun to you, make sure you like and subscribe. Share this episode with somebody who's going to enjoy it. And as a reminder, our podcast today is free and that would not be possible without our wonderful partners at saber.money, the stablecoin payments platform built for Asia. So keep an ear out for more information about them later in the show. Without further ado, welcome to the Milkroach Show. Tom, how are you, sir?

>> Good. How are you? >> I'm doing really well. I'm really excited to have you on the show today. I am traveling in Boston off my normal desk, but I really wanted to have this conversation, so I'm glad we could get together. Uh Tom, I thought a good place to start would be with the events of last week. Largest short liquidation in crypto history, $500 billion of market cap added to the crypto markets in a matter of days. What's your reaction to this move in the market events we've seen here and Ethereum going from around $1,900 to nearly $2,600 and outperforming Bitcoin here? I think everyone has a perspective on this, but you know, our take this year has been crypto fundamentals uh have been strengthening which is a real contrast to past crypto winters where those were

marked by closures, the absence of capital and then dwindling use cases. You know, we know tokenization uh is gaining a lot of traction. I mean so many high-profile major financial institutions are building tokenized products particularly on Ethereum. On top of that we know that as AI capabilities grow it's becoming very very obvious that AI agents don't want to use traditional financial systems and so crypto rails make a lot of sense. So to us, last week is what I would call a uh course correction because uh the price is finally starting to recognize that we shouldn't be in a deep crypto winter. And as you point out, the fact that there was a a massive

liquidation shows you how offsides the market was. And as uh the famous John Russell f says, all rallies start with short covering. So to us, I think this is the start of a much larger move. There's been a lot of debate about whether or not we're going to see sort of a retracement or a pullback on here or on on Ethereum and in Bitcoin crypto overall after this huge short squeeze. Are you expecting that to happen or do you think this has kicked off another bull market in crypto overall? You know, I mean, I think there's going to be a lot of like if for those who aren't exposed right now, there's obviously a a tactical question. And my answer to anybody who's doesn't have any crypto right now or is underexposed is if you look at the past crypto cycles

and you could buy the crypto either 4 weeks or one week after the low, would you just would you do that every day? And the answer is everyone should obviously be buying 4 weeks before the low or 1 week after the low. So if the low was last week, then you're buying one week after the low. If if there is a a retrace, which is possible, then you're buying 4 weeks before the low. I mean, in either case, I think you should be, you know, thanking yourselves for actually taking that tactical decision. I I think if anyone's trying to time the bottom and do what they what I call buy the middle leg of the rally, they're going to miss the majority of the gains because we've

published the stat and it's actually worked for more than a decade that crypto makes all of its moves in 10 days. And if you miss the 10 best days, you actually have negative returns. So, how many great days have had have happened in 2026? Like one. So, I mean, I think that there is uh a lot of upside for crypto between now and your end. >> Yeah, I've seen you posting about that on Twitter. That's the the rule of 10, like the 10 best days in the asset are or why you hold the asset and stay exposed. Um Tom, you talked a little bit about some of the unique value drivers behind Ethereum and crypto in this bare market as opposed to prior ones. And I I thought this would be a good segue into a presentation you recently gave where you called Ethereum the cure for the

uncanny valley of wealth. uh and I thought that this was a really interesting presentation, but could you just start with explaining what the uncanny valley of wealth is and why you think Ethereum is a solution for this? >> Yeah, there there is this uh notion of the uncanny valley. Um so there's a famous Japanese roboticist who wrote about the idea that if robots start to look too human, then people get very uncomfortable. And that's actually true. I think we we're going to be very uncomfortable the day we see like androids walking around that uh we can't tell the difference. Well, the same thing's going to happen with the financial system and your money because agent systems are gaining a lot of

capabilities. In fact, um we already know that within these a lot of these these models, the agents are actually buying more of the tokens than humans. So, we know that agent activity is picking up. Well, there is going to be a similar uncanny moment regarding your money because once AI systems become part of our economy, they're becoming revenue producing units, potentially even taxable units, and they might be delegated and uh working on our authority, but what will prevent them from deciding to do their own and make their own decisions financially, including how they access your accounts uh and execute transactions which you

may have already authorized. That to me is going to be the uncanny valley of wealth that over time it is possible that more of our wealth and our for each of us individually is going to be created by our delegated agents. Are we going to trust them if they're running on Visa Rails and JP Morgan accounts to make sure that they're not going to drain our financial resources? I think that's why we we want to have crypto smart contracts, finality, instant settlement, things that are really sort of the nature of crypto to protect us from agent systems going rogue.

>> Hi everyone, this is John. Listen, our Milk Road Pro analysts nailed this AI bull market. They we had dozens of calls pay off in a big way for our community. If you want to see how our entire team of analysts are positioning for the crypto bull market that's going to come after this bare market finally ends, you can join us now at Milkroad Pro. It's just a dollar. Link is in the description. You'll get access to all of our analyst trades, their watch lists, and see how they're navigating this in their portfolios and get access to ask us questions in Discord anytime, day or night. It's just a dollar. Links in the description. Milk Road Pro. Join now. I'll see you there. So, this is a way for humans to sort of stay in the loop as robotics and AI roll out. Why do you

think Ethereum is unique in in serving that need in the market and being a solution for that kind of a problem? Well, it's uh it's just one of the things that I think people don't really appreciate, especially someone who might be writing code or actually just whiteboarding is the network value, the network effects of a widely used system is hugely underappreciated because people don't know how to monetize that. For instance, why do why do we all use dollars? I mean, there's plenty of liquid currencies, but because the dollar has not only been the most accepted and uh as people say, has been around the longest, but why would we use anything else? Well, that's true of that's true of almost every asset,

whether that's real estate, why do we own land, you know, why do we trade in the US stock market when Korean stocks are cheaper? Ethereum is the largest by a country mile, the platform that is not only uh has the most number of wallets, the most activity, but is also the place where financial institutions are already building. So the question you'd have to ask is if financial institutions who've now chosen to use a public blockchain, would they suddenly want to be betting on a new illquid chain that could actually have problems in the future with code or adoption or there could be problems with their market maker or or

their node operators. So, we're creating a whole series of cascading problems when the reality is that Ethereum actually is the platform of choice today. Let's talk a little bit more about what Wall Street is building. Last week, Robin Hood CEO Vlad Tennov wrote an article on X calling for a tokenization super cycle. And I think a lot of people hear these words like tokenization and super cycle and may not know exactly what that means. How do you see this tokenization super cycle playing out? What does that mean? And how does that change markets as we know them today?

>> I mean, tokenization supercycle probably is the best explanation um for what's happening. Uh Vlad should really have I think the most credible perspective. Why is that? Well, first of all, he's a proven financial disruptor that has already built a company that has reached scale. I mean Robin Hood remember was a complete innovation to traditional equities and asset markets because he offered essentially free trading. Um but that might have been the unique feature but what he really did was he he created a platform where the user experience was so vastly different. I mean, when when people were using Robin Hood and swiping and moving with that with ease compared

to like these archaic traditional trade tickets on other apps, it shows you he really understood how he could innovate. Well, guess what? Financial rails are overdue for a for for basically a 21st or 22nd century platform. Today, the financial system is a a a very very complex system of multiple layers of people and multiple legacy systems and very uninterconnected systems that work with interfaces and lots of human intervention for transactions to get done. And while many people think it actually does work well, which in indeed it does, uh it doesn't move with with the speed and error freess and cost that

could be achieved by doing this on the blockchain. And so that's really what what Vlad is referring to is that if the financial system moved to crypto rails, it could unleash not only much faster access, lower cost access, but perhaps most importantly create huge innovation because when you can when you can move things much more quickly truly in a digital way, a lot of things that we define as like money us sorry that we traditionally don't think of as money could suddenly become money. I mean that is the huge unlock you know today a dollar becomes a digital dollar when it becomes a stable coin there's already

stocks trading as software you know as tokenized stocks on blockchains but once you turn stocks into software and money into software we could be turning other things that aren't traditionally thought of as money into digital money whether that's loyalty points, reputation, clout, uh, sponsorships, future present value of contracts, things that we just traditionally don't think of as money, but they're actually obviously monetizable.

That's the unlock. And how much bigger a market could it create? Think about this that the financial system today, and it's vast, you know, it's over 150 trillion of liquid assets. It's essentially driven by two simple asset classes, bonds and stocks. Everything else that's traded is a derivative of that. Well, number one, tokenizing all of that, the addressable market of assets is not 140 trillion. It could be 500 trillion. It could be, you know, intellectual property, uh, future licensing, resources held. So, we have a much bigger what they call addressable market. But then you could innovate the existing stock market in vast ways. So

yeah, I think super cycle is is like the best word, but it's probably understating the size of the uh innovation that's coming onto crypto. Robin Hood launched their Robin Hood chain to wild success. Users are trading tokenized stocks and crypto there. Uh this week, Coinbase also launched tokenized stocks on their base chain. Now both both base and Robin Hood chain are Ethereum L2s, so they're denominated in ETH. They're settling in ETH. uh talk to me about how this fits into your overall thesis on the Ethereum network, but also on ETH the asset to see some of these like major titans of trading building in the Ethereum ecosystem and and what you see playing out as this goes forward here. Yes. Uh well, I mean this is a really it's a very important issue uh and I think people tend to have

very simplistic or sort of uh singleline views around the importance of that. L2s play an important role on Ethereum and it's by design. They offer innovations uh hopefully innovations and speed and capacity but all by while relying on the security of the underlying Ethereum. So that that is why I think it is important to understand that the L2s even if they're not generating fees, their existence is dependent on the L1 on Ethereum's security layer and finality and trust but in in ways that can create a lot of value. Now, base and uh Robin

Hood chain have been knockout successes and I know uh Robin Hood is actually generating uh pretty good income as well as Coinbase. Um not as much as Coinbase used to generate and in the future volumes increasing should drive a lot of economic creation for both the you know the creator of the L2 but also increase the need and and desire for people to want to settle on Ethereum. I know there's going to be a lot of folks thinking that over time a lot of folks want to create their own L1s and I think that's that's a possibility but look at what's happened with for instance with Revolute and their stable coin launch.

um you know they didn't end up even though it was in partnership with Stripe they didn't launch it on Tempo it really was launched on Ethereum and at the end of the day there's a reason people are choosing Ethereum and it is you know the most liquid chain so I think that over time all of this is going to change the way people actually value Ethereum I I think that there is a lot of folks that want to try to value chains on a cash flow basis and of course there's a lot of success stories. So, hyperlquid and lighter are very, very good examples of chains that have cash flow models. But the most successful assets in the liquid markets today like equities, they actually act more like store of

value assets, not cash flow assets. I I think that it's a it's a really important distinction. And I think it's not it's a subtle distinction that's not well understood, but most stocks today are actually not held and valued and their accretion has less to do with cash flow and more to do with store value. >> So Tom, we talked about the tokenization piece of this and how you know you gave the example of Revolute, but Robin Hood chain, Coinbase, a lot of different major players in the industry are bringing assets on chain and doing it into Ethereum. The other side of this we touched on a little bit as well is AI, Agentic Finance, Agentic Commerce. Um, I thought a great illustration of this was Cloudflare uh reported recently that they're moving to begin offering USD

stablecoin wallets for agents. They also said that they anticipate that by 2030 most activity online will be agentic and non-human. How does that factor into the thesis here in that tokenized world with agents now running all this? and and how does Ethereum maintain that dominance and even expand its its value proposition in that universe? >> Well, I guess something I'd probably want to just say, you know, it we really don't I I think we can say with certainty some things and we can then also say with things with a lot of uncertainty like with certainty we can say that um the a the capabilities of AI agents should be vastly improving in the next 5 years. I mean I I think that that's not something that we would

really have to argue against. You know, we're not really reaching a peak in capabilities there. There's no Moore's law uh that's breaking by making that observation. And then I think it is probably correct to say are traditional financial rails which were built for humans and verified transactions between humans and all the potential risks that humans do with each other. You know, that's why we have to create all these levels of trust within traditional financial systems. Are they suited for agent activity? I mean, I'm going to say no. you know, I mean, one like Visa and all these are physical cards or um you know, there's when you look at a payment system and a card swipe and it moves through 24 different

systems uh to be validated, you know, is that the most efficient way for an agent system that might be doing a microtransaction that only like lasts, you know, it's a fraction of penny. So, it's like it's not even in the numerical system of the traditional financial rails and then a speed that the financial system can't handle. I don't think they're going to use traditional financial systems. However, I don't know if we can conclusively say they're going to use crypto rails, but they're either going to use crypto rails or agent systems are going to create their own monetary system. Okay? If they create their own monetary system, I think humans have to be really scared

because you know what? They're going to cut humans out of the loop. I mean, if agents create their own economy trading with each other and they're using units of exchange of money that they create and the only time that they convert it back to dollars is like when they need to interact with humans. That's that's pretty scary future. So I think by either design or regulation, humans are going to force themselves into that loop. And again, I think that the the system today that exists that could allow humans to be forced into that loop is a crypto rail. You know, one thing we've talked about a lot on this show is that crypto is quickly becoming a huge

part of the global payments infrastructure. And nowhere is that more obvious than in Asia. But if you're actually running a remittance company or a payment business, you know that the hard part isn't moving the stable coins. It's dealing with local banking partners, compliance, liquidity, and all of the operational headaches that come with sending money into places like India and Southeast Asia. That's why today's partner is Saber. They give payment companies stable coinpowered infrastructure to collect and make payouts across Asia without having to build all of that complexity themselves. They've already processed more than $3 billion in transactions across 40 different countries. So, this isn't just a concept. These guys are actually doing this for real. If you're building payment infrastructure or expanding into Asia, make sure you check out saber.money. So Tom, we talked a lot about the need for a a crypto rail to

underline this system of tokenized assets and agentic commerce. You have been betting very heavily that Ethereum is going to be that rail that underlies this. Um and in that capacity, Bitmine has been allocating to Ethereum. You guys are now over $14 billion worth of Ethereum you've accumulated um to get towards this target of 5% of the total supply. You have bought Ethereum now, I think, for 65 consecutive weeks, which I think is a personal best. Um, and you've also recently in the last five weeks though um begun introducing buybacks of the BMR stock as well. So I'm curious if you could just tell us a little bit about the the strategy here. Why the consistent purchases of ETH every week and why the recent introduction of the buybacks of Bitmine stock? Yeah, I'm

glad to. When we created Bitmine uh on June 27th a year ago, 2025, uh our goal was to really play uh an what we viewed as uh a a central role in the future financial system. So, our bet was that Ethereum was going to be the future settlement layer of finance. And we wanted to to capture a level of Ethereum that wasn't too sizable because we didn't want to centralize Ethereum, but one that gave us network value benefits, you know, uh of size. So 5% was our target and I think it's a a target that the foundation uh is very

comfortable with and the founders of Ethereum because at that level we can play a role of st as a stabilization agent within cryp within Ethereum. But we can also play a role in in helping guide and strengthen the ecosystem because for instance and it's I think been evident in the way that we've been able to help anchor um the Ethereum Foundation spin-offs. The reason we want to buy consistently is that you know in our view Ethereum is still vastly vastly undervalued. Um, one, we think that this is, you know, something that captures a a lot of the future growth of the

financial system as they move on to the blockchain. And then I think it's going to play a very important role in really helping safeguard humans and and really govern agentic AI activities. So, what does that create? What does that make Ethereum worth? Well, to us, the present value is far higher than the 2500 per ETH today. And even at the old all-time highs of around 5,000, I think it it's really undervaluing Ethereum. And a simple way to think of it is the price ratio of Ethereum to Bitcoin today is around 0.03.

It used to be 0.08 08 at the 2021 highs, but in in 2021 that was all really driven by, you know, meme coins and NFTTS. You know, we're and we're now talking about tokenization and agentic AI. I think that ratio is going to to go way beyond 008, you know, maybe it even goes to uh 0.25, maybe it even goes to one. And that means Ethereum is is hugely undervalued. So for us, we would want to buy Ethereum every week, which is what we've done. We've been able to acquire it. Uh we've been a consistent bid.

We've taken out essentially 5% of the supply of Ethereum. So if you think about that, that is a a sinkhole of liquidity that we've absorbed. And um I think it's going to have a lot of strategic benefits to the ecosystem in the future because now this is quite a lot of ETH that can be used to be to seed and fund and encourage a lot of DeFi future opportunities. And I think equally important as we know in the next crypto cycle, there's going to be multiple tens of billions of dollars of companies that are going to be stood up that that are part of this new crypto financial rails system. And now we have

a we have an opportunity to to really help either seed those, be involved with them, even create those. And so I think that's why we've been buying Etherum every week. Now in terms of equity buybacks, we have an authorization to buy back $4 billion of common equity, which is a a huge percentage of the company. We could essentially uh you know buy back when we commenceed it 50% of the company. And the reason we want to have a buyback authorization in place is to ensure that the stock price doesn't deviate from what we consider to be fundamental value. And so when we

started this buyback program, we thought the stock was a really good investment for us because we could actually grow our Ethereum per share by buying back stock. And we did execute the largest over those past five weeks, the largest stock buyback in history uh of any crypto debt. Uh we bought nearly 20 million shares back and uh we commenced that buyback program when the stock was uh under $15 per share and it's currently 26. So I think in in many ways it's been a very successful program.

Well, I want to talk a little bit about something you mentioned earlier in that answer, which is some of these new organizations in the Ethereum ecosystem and Bitmine's involvement there. Uh, the Ethereum Foundation has broken out into more organizations. There's ETH Labs, ETH systems, Ethereum institutional. Bitmine has been a major supporter of all of these organizations. And I I would love to just hear your perspective on the overall strategy here in the evolution of Ethereum's governance and this expanding ecosystem of participants here. um what should investors understand about this and and what do you see as the strategy here?

>> Okay, you know, this this really ties back to kind of a a restructuring that took place in the Ethereum Foundation earlier this year. the Ethereum Foundation uh had morphed into a really large organization with a lot of multiple mandates um and a lot of folks and in some ways uh and this really I think is evidence of the maturity of Ethereum it it didn't ne necessarily make sense for all of those different efforts to be sitting within the Ethereum foundation.

So for instance, you know, should enterprise engagement be driven by a central foundation or should the foundation play a a supporting role but actually stand up different entities that will drive enterprise engagement and that's true of whether it's privacy or even ethereum labs. And I think that they properly concluded that some of these efforts should be built and stood up outside of the foundation because it brings in the potential for two things. Additional partnerships that may not exist if there's within the foundation and that could include outside financial institutions. It could include tech companies and if and it could include

include a lot of actually Ethereum core developers that want to have direct participation but not necessarily have that through their involvement in the foundation. So that's why when we saw this uh taking place it made a lot of sense for us to act as a stabilizing entity as an anchor um for each of these. And some of these entities are what we consider public good investments. you know, things that we know are really good for Ethereum, but we're not measuring success as, hey, this found this entity is generating returns and payments to us. It is simply, we know it's a really smart decision and something that will really position Ethereum uh for a lot of future

wins. And you know what, since that since that those entities have been stood up, look at the wins that have been taking place. I think it's been a resounding success. Yeah, I think uh I think you could make that argument very easily. I did an interview with three of the five co-founders of ETHLabs, which is is one of these entities that's been stood up. They said that their goal is to make Ethereum the root of global finance, which sounds great, but is a very ambitious goal. And I was wondering if you could give your perspective on how that actually starts to happen. And what do you see as the next hurdle on that journey towards that goal?

>> I'm going to just share, you know, my perspective. And so, um, you know, a lot of this is opinion and not like facts and that's not how it's either going to play out. But I spent, uh, my entire career, uh, in traditional Wall Street. So, I I worked at Kerpabody, Solomon Brothers, which became City Group, and then JP Morgan for 15 years before I started uh, Fundstrat. So I have spent most of my adult life and professional career in traditional working with working at large financial institutions and understanding traditional financial

institutions and I think it's it's really important to have that perspective because the the crypto industry is a quantum quantum improvement of what can be done for financial systems. Okay. But the mere fact that is is a superior solution does not mean that the traditional financial system is going to adopt it. I think it is a it is an incredibly important thing to understand for anyone who's building that you might build something that is lightning fast and works better to settle a futures trade, but it doesn't mean that Wall Street will adopt it. And if they don't

adopt it, at least today it's not going to become a source of future opportunity. And financial institutions have huge regulatory uh guard rails. They have customer considerations. They have uh very different pain points. And then there's an enormous enormous layer of a chain of people that are involved in these systems that you cannot overnight uh snap a finger and change. Uh these are in incredibly complex systems and actually the larger a financial institution is it means it's likely a has a history of many many acquisitions. In fact, many of

those acquisitions means that the the internal systems aren't integrated and tied together. So that means financial institutions have to move very slowly and then when something eventually sees a use case then you could see rapid adoption. That is a glacial glacial process that is not going to happen overnight. So I think these institutions want to work with organizations that understand their requirements and I think that these new standup entities completely understand it. Whether it's Ethereum institutional, ETH labs, um,

ETH systems, they understand exactly that because they've been engaged with these companies for many years. But they also understand the reason a financial institution will adopt something is that it's a 10x improvement over what they do today. Crypto clearly is a 10x improvement, but they need to see financial returns or payoffs that are 10x right away. Tom, I really appreciate those thoughts. I did an interview with uh Joe Shalom, who I used to work with at BlackRock on the Aladdin platform, and Joe Luben um of Sharlink, which is the second largest Ethereum DAT, and they said something similar. They said Ethereum isn't competing with these alt L1s. It's really competing with a lot of this legacy software and systems at

these institutions and trying to replace that. So, it's it's interesting to hear that perspective there. Um, I want to come back to um this question of uh the Ethereum and BTC ratio because a lot of people are wondering where Ethereum goes for the rest of this year and it's been in this 10-year downtrend against BTC and is now broken out of that downtrend and know with with size and conviction. Um, and I'm curious your thoughts on the drivers of ETH of drivers of value for ETH for the rest of 2026 relative to BTC and do you think that that breakout is going to hold and continue to play out?

Yeah, I think the ratio between Ethereum to Bitcoin should continue to rise. I mean, I think at a minimum it should go back to its old high of 0.08. And the reason for that is one, when we look at the next 5 years, uh I I'm still a very big believer in Bitcoin. Um because to me it is better than digital gold. It's it's digital gold uh but it functions as a substitute for gold far better. So I I think Bitcoin easily has uh multiples of upside from here.

But I think the story that's being written around crypto over the next five years has to do a lot with tokenization and as you know Vlad said it's a super cycle anogentic AI and and really protecting humans and inserting humans into that chain. um which we think is a lot of it is and maybe the majority of it is maybe all of it will happen on Ethereum. So I think that ratio is going to increase. I think there are catalyst between now and year end. You know of course one of the most important is the clarity act if it does pass in September. It's important for traditional financial institutions. It's not important for the crypto world, but the traditional financial system can

more safely navigate knowing there is, you know, a designated entity that has uh rulemaking authority on crypto. That is really going to help traditional financial systems start to formally build on crypto. However, if it doesn't pass, it's not the worst thing for crypto because the crypto industry has already shown it innovates. uh in the absence of regulatory clarity. So I I think Ethereum is going to do fine either way, but I think you're really going to supercharge the movement if the Clarity Act passes. The second catalyst is that there's a lot of people on the sidelines, and you started this uh podcast off with pointing that out

because they're waiting for crypto winner to end because they're using the four-year cycle, and they're waiting till October. Um well, guess what? You know that's like five weeks away. So, um, you're going to have a lot of folks who are short or sitting on cash, uh, or who've left crypto and been trading AI coming back in. And I think that also includes the Asia market. You know, Korea went crazy for Korean equities, but now I'm not bearish on AI stocks, but there is a lot more upside in crypto, which is really what we have viewed as a downstream story to the AI trade. And so you have not only the the crypto winter ending, but a lot of cash on the sidelines, especially Asia. That's three

really huge catalysts. And of course, there's going to be performance chasing by institutions because since June 30th, the best performing asset has been crypto. Ethereum is up 54%. Gold's only up 13. Stocks are up, you know, single digits. Well, when we get to June by September 30th, which is a month, and if Ethereum is still the best performing asset, guess what institutions will be buying from September 30th to December 30th, there's going to be a lot of FOMO chasing. So, now that's the fourth catalyst, which is a huge institutional bid. I think Ethereum could easily easily exceed its year-to- date highs on that ratio of ETH to BTC,

but you know, does it get to 0.04? Well, if it does, and if Bitcoin's 150,000, you know, that's going to put Ethereum at around 6,000. And I think that's being very conservative because again, 0.08 is the old ratio high. >> All right, I have a very specific ask for you guys. Somebody listening to this knows the person running marketing at a crypto or AI company that should be advertising with Milk Road. We reach more than half a million investors across everything we do, and Q4 is filling up. So don't be the brand that waited too long. And the cool part about sponsoring the show is this episode is still going to be getting plays months from now. So send this to them. Look like a genius and tell them to go to

milkroad.com/sponsor. Tom, I really appreciate you coming on the Milkroad show. I think this channel and our audience have been very closely following Ethereum and a lot of the changes and developments in that ecosystem. So I really appreciate you coming on to share your insights with us today. I have a ton more questions that I wanted to get to with you. Unfortunately, we're out of time. So, I'm going to keep my word and let you go, but I just want to say thank you so much for being on the Milk Road Show. I really do look forward to having you back to check in as this all plays out. But in the meantime, good luck. Thanks for being here, and we look forward to another conversation soon. >> Thanks.

>> And thank you all for joining us. I hope you all learned something today. So, until next time, as I always say, stay safe, stay educated, stay bullish, and we will see you all in the next episode of the Milkro Show. Thanks for being here, everyone. Bye. >> Thanks for listening to Milk Road. If you enjoyed the show, make sure you like and subscribe. And if you're struggling to find winners in the market, that's exactly what Milkroad Pro is built for. Our analysts have called some of the biggest winners early, and Pro lets you see what they're buying next, every trade they make, and the research behind every position. Check out Milk Road Pro at the link below. Everything you hear on Milkroad is forformational purposes only. These are our personal opinions, not financial advice, and we may own some of the investments we talk about.

Always do your own research and make the decisions that are right for you. See you next time.