Tokenized private credit and onchain yield with Figure Markets

Transcript

GM. Good morning. Welcome to the Milkroach Show, the daily crypto show where blockchain's doing to tradify what Netflix did to Blockbuster. I'm your host, Jay Hamilton. It's Friday, August the 1st. The Genius Act could trigger a 6 trillion capital exodus from banks, and I don't think anybody's ready for the credit crunch that follows. Also, private credit has been Wall Street's bestkept secret for a long time, generating big yield for institutions. Now, tokenization of this private credit is the next big wave. And you know what?

You as a retail investor are going to be be able to get access to this yield in new ways. And today's guest is leading the charge. We are joined by Nick Santoaro, CMO at Figure Markets, which has done over 1 billion in trading volume and over 12 billion of tokenized private credit. He's also the former global growth director at Binance. Before we jump in, I've been telling you guys all week to do me a big favor and go over to our new podcast, Milk Road Macro. Hit subscribe on your favorite platform, whether it be YouTube, Spotify, or Apple. And if you do so, you could win a free Milk Road Macro Pro subscription for one year, which will give you everything you need to know about the crazy world of macroeconomics, bank cuts, rates, liquidity, what's

going on in politics, all that. So, please do me a favor, go do that now and you might get something in return. Today's episode is brought to you by Definitive, the leading multi-chain trading terminal trusted by funds, Dows, and Protraders. It's also brought to you by Letin. Get cash without selling your Bitcoin. Without further ado, Nick, welcome to the Milk Road Show. >> Thanks for having me, Jay. Excited to be here. >> Pleasure to have you, my man. Okay, you and I were talking before we started recording and I I actually got to share my screen here and bring up everybody listening and I'll tell you what we're looking at. So, I got we got one of my favorite sites, which is rwa.xyz.

We've talked about this site a lot on the show. Great site to understand what is going on in the tokenization of real world assets. And I've got up a chart of private credit. Now, right now, private credit, we got about 15 billion in tokenized private credit on chain. Let me remind everybody that in traditional finance, there's over 1.6 trillion in private credit in the private credit market. But when I look at this chart and I zoom in here and I can see the breakdown of the 15 billion, over 11 billion is from figure. How did you guys manage to achieve over 11 billion here?

It's been a it's been a journey, one that I have just uh jumped on recently. So, I don't want to take any any credit for for this story uh other than just knowing the story, but uh we are the the leaders in real world assets. And it's wild to me that people in the the crypto ecosystem don't really know that yet. And hopefully the you know, shows like today and uh and elsewhere will kind of spread that word a little bit. But yeah, so Figure um has a blockchain that we work with called Provenance Blockchain, and it it kind of la I think it launched in 2021. Basically, we've been putting home equity loans, they're mortgages, um but home equity lines of credit on chain since then. And if you go to Providence Pulse or if you go to ruralasset.xyz X

XYZ or if you just go to the Providence blockchain explorer, you could see that we have about 12 billion dollars worth of outstanding um home equity lines of credit mortgages, their types of mortgages on chain right now. And it's it's, you know, been really great for us as as a business. And the reason why people haven't heard of it is because what we've done is we've obuscated away the fact that we've been using blockchain this whole time. and we basically removed about 125 bips uh basis points from you know middlemen rent seekers in the the home equity loan space and we were able to essentially undercut the market and make this great loan origination system and so because crypto and and blockchain has kind of

been in the in the background. Nobody's really heard about us in in the crypto space but we have amassed about 12 billion dollars uh today in loans outstanding home equity loans outstanding on Providence blockchain through us and our partners. uh we I think we have over 170 now partners that are using our loan origination system to kind of amass this this number and we are the largest real world asset player and the largest probably crypto player that nobody's even heard about. >> Yeah, it it strikes me that you are the bestkept secret in blockchain and in crypto. So wait, just let me let me make sure I'm understanding this for people who don't understand home equity lines of credit versus a mortgage. Can you just give us like the sort of like

explain it to us like we're a 5-year-old definition here? >> So, everybody probably has heard of the term mortgage before, right? If you take out a loan, you get it, you can buy a house. Mortgage is like kind of an umbrella term uh for the industry for like the lending industry. And a home equity line of credit is if you already own a house and you want to take some of that equity and turn it into cash. That's what that is, right? So, on the lending side, we give out loans up to $400,000. It is by far the fastest process in the industry. It is so convenient because we settle everything and we remove uh middlemen, right? It takes you weeks. With other traditional home equity lines of credit with us, it's it's very very fast. And so, you know, if you wanted to uh redo your

house or if you wanted to consolidate your debt or if you wanted to use your house to buy Bitcoin, you can do that with a traditional home equity line of credit. there. I think there's $35 trillion in the US right now of home equity. Um, and uh, you know, it's it's we're the we're the largest non-bank home equity line of of credit lender and mortgage lender in in the country. Um, and there's still just a massive opportunity there and all of that will be moving on chain as well as that business grows. Well, and as you said before, not only is it sounds like it's a a simpler process for a homeowner to get this equity home equity line of credit, it's also cheaper because you've

cut out you've used blockchain to cut out the middleman, which we, you know, it's funny. It's we we often forget the original ethos of crypto and we get so caught up in like the day-to-day prices of Bitcoin and Ethereum and whatnot, but that was one of like the, you know, peerto-peer, cut out the middleman, right? Make things faster, make things cheaper. And here you go. You're you've proven that it's it's possible and it obviously is working because you have over 12 billion in these loans. >> Yeah. And and I kind of look at it, yeah, like we're probably the best kept uh secret in crypto, but I also think we're probably the only ones that have used blockchain to disrupt an industry to actually innovate and, you know, bring all those blockchain values and

and virtues to a a thing that was was kind of archaic and slow and uh and expensive. And you know, I think Bitcoin you can argue has has disrupted gold and you can argue that stable coins will disrupt fiat and that kind of stuff. But we've already done the disruption, right? And I think that's that's really exciting. I I I think people should hold on to the fact that anytime, you know, their friends say like, "What is crypto done? It's just a pet rock or anything like that." Just point to figure. We we've been disrupting the home equity line of credit industry using blockchain since 2021.

>> Incredible. Okay. So, I want to ask what's next, but I also want to sort of take a step back for a second and into like looking the bigger picture of what's going on with regulation in the US and the Genius Act just passing and the impact that that is going to have on capital movement from banks. So, let's touch on that first because I think that'll connect the story together. Well, >> yeah, I think that's I think that's a great call out. So, if everybody remembers back in I think it was 2023 2022, Silicon Valley Bank collapsed. I would imagine people remember and that

was when $1.1 trillion left the credit system. And just for for your audience, uh just to level set, the way the the credit system works today is if you put your cash into a bank, they take that cash and they lend it out, right? That's how loans get financed. That's that's how money gets created. All of that stuff. And if $1.1 trillion dollars left the banking system and caused banks to collapse, you know, that's that's what a run on the bank is. That's something that we all have to be careful of. Uh or something that could happen in like kind of a doomsday scenario. And it kind of did happen in in 2023 and banks banks collapsed. The Genius Act that is passing, I think, is going to be

massively beneficial for the crypto industry and for the world because the efficiency gains from moving to stable coins from fiat are just going to be huge. It's it's going to be a large productivity uh increase. You know, if you're waiting on a wire, it doesn't take three days anymore. Like that kind of thing. Everything's more transparent. I think we can all understand the benefits of of transparency. But what could happen is uh a lot of cash could leave the traditional finance uh ecosystem, could leave uh the credit system. And the Treasury Department estimated that up to $6.6 trillion could be leaving the the banking system.

And if 1.1 trillion, you know, caused some uh leaving caused some banks to collapse, what's what's going to happen with 6.6 trillion, right? And and I'm not trying to be like, you know, all doomsday about it, but there needs to be a replacement system that uh takes over. Um because the world will still need credit. The world will still need borrowing. The world is still set up on a capitalist system. And so something needs to step up to replace that 6.6 trillion that might leave the banking system. And I do think that decentralized finance is going to be that solution. So, we're setting up for a I I also don't want to call it a doomsday situation, but what is very clear is we're setting up for a revolution. There is a shift happening.

Everybody listening to this show knows that and everybody listening to the show is trying to figure out when that shift has happened going to happen and where's the edge, where's the alpha, how's the opportunity to understand that before it happens. So when this shift happens, whether it be $6 trillion, it's obviously not going to be overnight, but how does blockchain and crypto, how are we set up to to hopefully help manage and make sure that it doesn't cause another Silicon Valley bank type of disruption. >> So my my hunch of what's going to happen and then we can kind of talk about how we're going to help the solution at figure. My hunch that what's going to happen is yes, people will will convert their dollars, institution will convert their dollars into stable coins. there will be that exodus as an unintended

consequence of moving the world forward with with stable coin infrastructure. And the way I think DeFi is going to kind of take over or or take on some of that burden is, you know, if now your cash is no longer sitting in a in a Chase account or something and now it's sitting, you know, in your MetaMask wallet or your Phantom wallet, depending on which chain you're on. Um, you could then, you know, put that into an A or a Camino or a Democratized Prime uh from Figure, which we'll talk about in a little. Then people can borrow that cash. You could borrow you could you could lend it out yourself like a bank does today. And so democratized finance ends up taking over a lot of that burden, I think. Um, and instead of, you know, JPM lending out cash for a

mortgage, it could just be me and you doing that, right? And that's where I think the the world is going is there will be less centralized lending and more decentralized lending. And that 6.6 trillion will still be looking for yield. And that's where people will naturally turn towards lending because that's usually where the highest and lowest risk ways of earning yield end up going. Right? Today the prime rate exists. The prime rate is bank-tobank lending numbers. It's basically like the risk-free rate for institutions to lend to each other. It's not risk- free, but that's kind of what they what they say.

And that's at about 7% right now. It's usually the overnight rate plus like 250 BIP, something like that. and retail does not have access to that prime rate today. And I do think they will have access to that once stable coin rails become the dominant force in in finance. >> I want to lead into the yield opportunities that you have in DeFi. Uh, but before I I think that now might be a good point to bring up a story you were telling me ahead of time from back in the in your old position at Binance and being part of some really wild moments in the early days of crypto. What were what were some uh some some wild moments that you experienced

while at Binance? Yeah, I think the the wildest one is I was I was in the room uh when we were discussing kind of crisis management uh when the whole FTX blowup was was going down. I I know people might not believe me on this, but there was zero zero intent um to collapse FTX when we said we were going to sell FTT token. Like zero ill intent there. It was just like, hey, we're we're good. We're out. And obviously that's what what happened. The the collapse ended up happening. And um when so when we were in the room all talking about this, I was like, "Hey, we should actually set up a proof of reserves where we showcase all of our hot wallets, all of our cold wallets, and people actually know and feel comfortable where the money is." And uh

CZ is awesome. He he he literally took that and was like, "We should do that." And he tweeted it out within four or five minutes of of me saying that live live in that meeting. And then it was all up to the the rest of us to, you know, kind of go and and do a proof of reserves part of the website. >> Cool. figure it out. >> Yeah, just like, "All right, go exe. All right, I guess we're executing this now." It was just like a I threw it out there kind of thing. But it's really interesting because I actually do think FTX underscores how important it is that we need to get away from centralized custody, right? And move towards decentralized custody where there's multiple, you know, shards controlling a wallet. So then that way you could always see, you know, where your assets

are and you know that it's not just capable of of single entity failure if an FTX ever happens again, right? like you know that you could still see your your crypto, you know that you could still pull it out because you have security entitlements against it. And it it's just kind of where I think the industry needs to move, right, to decentralized custody instead of centralized custody like a like a Coinbase has or still Binance has. >> In traditional finance, whales use the Bloomberg terminal. In crypto, they use Definitive, the trading terminal built by Coinbase alumni, which lets you trade across every major chain out there.

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during the chaos of 2022. If you're a long-term hodler, this is the move. Get liquidity without selling at milkroad.com/letin spelled ln. Okay, great leadin. So, as we move to decentralized custody, which many of the people listening to the show have already done with a lot of their funds, you have opportunities to then take those assets that are in your own custody and use them in DeFi. And when you use them in DeFi, you can get great yield. What most of our listeners are probably used to is the standard vanilla a yield. going to a getting four to 5%

on your on your idol funds basically what is the opportunity and what is the new product that you guys have built because I'm very excited about this break down what you guys are going to offer that's going to give a different yield >> so so figure uh launched figure markets back in I think it was 2023 sometime or early 2024 and uh what figure markets is is it's three products in in one it's we have a an exchange a crypto exchange which you can uh you know buy the top eight assets right now with zero fees and decentralized custody. All of the trading happens on Providence blockchain. So you you can see everything happening on chain assets moving and you know your your funds are

are essentially protected from single entity failure with decentralized custody. Um then we have our cryptoback loan product which is uh we just hit uh all-time highs this month in in its usage. Uh so if you want to take out cash against Bitcoin, you can uh with us and we have the lowest uh fixed rate uh 50% LTV uh rates in the industry at uh 9.99% APR. Um, but then the the really star of the product that I wanted to to, you know, talk to you and and your audience about today is something called Democratized Prime, which is essentially, you can kind of think about it as an a or a Camino um on Provence blockchain, but it's the first and only real world asset version of that. And so we we started the show talking about how

Figure has 12 billion worth of or our partners has $12 billion worth of loans outstanding on Providence blockchain. Those loans are really the only real world assets that are in significant size and volume that are not stable coins or money market funds on chain. And so what we're essentially able to do is we're able to put up those loans as collateral as assets so that you and I as retail or institutions can lend against them like banks can today and you cannot today. So essentially what happens is we charge uh or our partners charge customers anywhere from like eight and a half nine and a half% that kind of thing to take out a home equity

loan with us or our partners. And what we've done is we've taken some of those we have about $15 million worth of those in a pool on democratized prime on figure markets right now. And you can go there and lend against those assets. So 9 and a half% comes in from the home homeowner, let's say to us and then we take that cash, we simply pass it on to you. So you can get 9% today using democratized prime tapping into a home homeowner's interest payments on their loans. So you can't you can't do that anywhere else because those loans are not anywhere else on chain and you can't do that in traditional markets because that's the domain of banks. You cannot

do that in traditional markets. So, we've democratized finance, democratized lending from the trady side. And since we're the only ones that have actual real cash flowing real world assets on chain, we're the only ones that you could do that against on DeFi rails as well and get 9% with hourly auctions that you could withdraw as long as there's liquidity sitting on the sidelines. >> Yeah. I think that uh what's so amazing about this is we talked you you mentioned yourself that the this type of financial instrument is really only available to institutions right now and they are able to get these incredible yields. Maybe you say to somebody like, "Hey, you can get, you know, I don't

want to say it's risk- free because nothing's risk- free, but when you're talking about home equity lines of credit, it's a fairly low risk type of yield." And most retail has never been able to get that type of access to private credit yield. And I'm almost like like kind of a jaw-dropping moment because this is what we all wanted DeFi and crypto to do to give the little guy, the average guy access to this stuff that only the banks had access to before.

>> You you've literally never been able to lend out cash to your buddy for a home equity loan. That was not possible, right? Uh before today and and and now it is. And all of these loans in these pools uh today and probably and and I think also in the future because we have a pretty high standard. If you're talking about creditworthiness, all of these loans have like 750 FICO scores, right? They all have like very high creditworthiness. And if you go to the heliloc pool on figure markets, you can download our app, go to the heliloc pool on dem on on um on figure markets, uh we have all like literally all of the data that you would want to see on these loans. FICO scores are there, loan to

value ratios are there, debt to income ratios are there, all of that because all of the loans are on chain. They're all transparent. You can literally see what loans you're get you're lending against. It's interesting because it also strikes me as the institutionalization of DeFi. A lot of people listening in today, you know, will remember DeFi summer back, you know, in 2021 and I was a big Y. >> Exactly. >> And that was very different, right? That was we were all sitting here being like, oh, like 20% APY, 50% APY, like just ridiculous numbers that everybody knew kind of, you know, if you really looked yourself in the mirror, you knew

something was up and it shouldn't be this good. But we all were like, let's go. Like, you know, so it now we're seeing, okay, put that out of your mind. It's almost like you kind of got to forget that and realize that we're in a different these new products, these new financial products that such as the ones Figure Markets is offering with Democratized Prime are are quite different than DeFi summer 1.0. It's almost like we're in Defi Summer 2.0 right now. >> I think that's exactly right and I do think we're kicking it off because we're the only ones that can, right? because we're the only ones that have real world assets that are cash flowing on chain and we have since 2021. Eventually, there will be other third parties that

put real world asset collateral on chain. Maybe they work with us. They they are going to work with us. We're we're in talks with with them. Or maybe they go to a and commamino. But the point is is that all of those real world assets are not on chain yet. And today we're the only opportunity that you can come get 9% against real c real cash flowing assets where it's not just some, you know, token inflation farm or some kind of marketing incentive. Like this is this is real. It's sustainable. There might be some change in rates based off of supply and demand if the pool is full. But we have a lot more collateral that we could put in uh once the pool fills, which I think it actually is close to filling uh because the early demand has been through the roof. It's,

you know, I think we have 15 million, >> right? Almost it's almost full. Okay. So, you got to get it. Just I got to ask while we're on this point. How how does somebody get access to this? >> Yeah. So, so go download Figure Markets. Uh we're in the app store. Um and then what you do is you buy Yields, which is our SEC registered yield bearing stable coin. It's actually the only SEC registered yield bearing stable coin in in existence right now. um you buy that and then you make an offer into democratized prime and as long as your offer is below the current going rate you will get into the pool. If people are just really excited and they're like 9% that's amazing and then they keep undercutting the market because of supply and demand. Maybe that goes down to seven eight what whatever right

natural supply and demand dynamics but right now the pool is not full it's still at 9%. And we have way more collateral that if we wanted to keep rates higher, we can keep adding in. And we will keep adding in. But right now, the current trunch is about 15 million. And it's pretty much almost full after just launching the product about a month ago, which is pretty amazing. >> Wow. Wow. And I want to go back to what you said just a moment ago, and I want to make sure that everyone understands this because there is a a thing to understand around others will do this in the future. There will be more financial products like this. But I mean, as I showed earlier in the show, I showed that chart of tokenized private credit.

You know, we're talking about there's only 15 billion in tokenized private credit in comparison to 1.6 trillion in private credit and traditional finance mechanisms. So, we've got a long a long way to go. But just going back, why why can't somebody else do this right now? they they they would have to um so there there's two they uh one is like a they of like A and Camino right they don't have a third party that will put real world assets into a pool on those on those marketplaces right now right eventually they they could potentially uh assuming they're compliant and like all that stuff which I have no idea where their compliance is at we are compliant already like all that kind of

stuff we actually have you know we have all these lending licenses that that we need you know that kind of thing That's A and Camino. But then if you're talking about other third parties, well, they just haven't thought about putting real world assets on chain yet. And then two, they're going to go through all this legal work and all this compliance work and then actually tokenizing the assets, right? So that will happen, but it's just probably a little bit away. And to your to your point on like the opportunity size here, I think it's really interesting if you look at like what Coinbase is doing and what Robin Hood is doing with tokenized equities, that is a massive massive opportunity, right? Like I do think eventually all trading will happen on chain whether it happens on Robin Hood chain or base or you know like X stocks like on Salana. I

I don't know. But what people probably don't realize is that the tokenized debt market is three up to 3x larger than the tokenized equity market, right? And we're trying to push the tokenized debt market forward, the tokenized credit market forward. Um and we just think there's just such a bigger opportunity there. We're talking to other third parties right now about bringing their loans and their assets onto Democratized Prime. So like imagine a world where there's auto loans, there's other uh vendors of mortgages, uh there's personal loans, there's uh student loans, right? All of these different loans that are cash flowing and you could see all of their different creditworthiness on chain will be available on Democratized Prime one day

andor on, you know, other marketplaces like probably like an A or Camino. But we're so much further ahead of everybody else that it's like you can do it today and you're probably years away from being able to do it elsewhere either through third parties or through other borrow lend protocols like A and Camino. So it's like why wait? >> Yeah. Oh, well, I mean, I think the biggest thing to me that I I always want our listeners to remember is being a great investor is not just about investing in a token or an asset in order to get a, you know, two, 3x, 10x, 100x. I mean, unfortunately, a lot of us are trying to chase those big returns,

which you should be careful about doing. But it's not just about that. It's also about the way you manage your cash and the way you get yield on your cash. because I know everybody listening has cash and we all have cash that sits around and often we focus so much on the big returns that we don't f focus on the like the easy money that's right in front of you which maybe isn't as exciting because you know you sitting there thinking well like who wants you know 5 to 10% when I can go get you know 2x over here but let's be real if you're if you're a strong money manager with your own money you should have some cash you should not be fully invested in risk on assets so That balance is really important.

>> I couldn't agree more. This this this product is for everybody except for, you know, the the meme coiners that have 100% of their portfolio in Fcoin. I'm sorry. Like we're we're not for the people that have 100% portfolio in in Fcoin. Everybody else, which is probably 98% of of uh you know, investors will have some cash lying around. They'll have either dry powder uh from, and this is not invested advice, but this is just us sizing up the market. um they'll have dry powder for their trading portfolio. They'll, you know, there's people that want to do financial independence, retire early, and they're looking for high yield so that they can sustain that. There are tradey po folks or wealthier folks that, you know, they want to diversify. They want to either get some exposure to, you know, real

estate or they just want to get some exposure to private credit, right? Anybody that owns the junk ETF, right? Like th those kind of folks. So there there there's a huge opportunity. There's a huge TAM for this. Um, you know, it's kind of one of those things where 9% uh for anybody that isn't 100% in memecoins or, you know, uh, meme stock trading, you know, it could be interesting. I got to ask if, uh, if any of our listeners are 100% in Fartcoin, you got I got to know you got to comment. I got I got to know that you exist because that would be that would be totally wild. But it wouldn't completely shock me.

>> I mean, man, it's it's always ripping, right? Like, I get it, you know? I I understand. You had to make the joke, didn't you? >> You had to. >> Yeah. Oh, man. My wife loves that one mainly because I am literally always ripping. So, and my son, too. So, >> okay, let's take a step back for a second. Uh, before we let you go, Nick, you've been in the industry for a long time. You've seen, you know, many cycles. You've seen you've you've been in the room for some crazy conversations. when you look at where we are now in the market cycle versus where you think we might be going over the next 6 to 12 months, uh what are your thoughts?

>> Yeah, I mean I I think there's two two things. Um I don't know how much longer this this cycle is is going to last. My my general hunch, and this is just me trading as a as an individual, is there's probably going to be I think more time left in this cycle. I I would imagine that like the the second Powell gets replaced next July, something like that, you know, could be a sell the the new uh sell the the moment kind of event. Um and they'll be buying as like an excitement leading up to it. And then another hypothesis I have is I I think, you know, I really do think utilityless tokens are probably done. And you know, I think gas tokens like Salon and Ethereum will will continue to have

places like L1's that are those are those are that's high utility. But I think like you know, tokens that are just governance tokens or memecoins or even NFTts that were just kind of art, a lot of those don't have a place anymore in my mind. And I think it's going to be, you know, equities moving on chain that will be what you trade on chain. Um I think gaming NFTts will take over because they'll have utility uh built in, right? And then I think a lot of people will be interacting with tokenized debt because they can get way higher returns you know from a yield perspective than they can on trades and it's you know it's something that is uh less volatile um than you know equity trading or memecoin token trading. So I I think my my big thesis here is crypto

is finally here. It's finally getting adopted. uh real use cases are finally here and it's going to transform the world and you know people that are used to trading former cycles on on crypto uh need to probably just adjust that crypto rails were meant to disrupt what is happening in trady and what is traditionally happened in trady and make it better and it's not going to create new asset classes it's just going to rei revolutionize the ones that we have today >> is it's almost like overtalked about at this point, but the fact that it hasn't happened is the legislation. So, yes, we got the Genius Act, but we haven't had market structure yet and it's like I

feel like it's like beating a dead horse. Now I talk about hey legislation is coming and all we always guests are always speculating when do you think we're going to see the market structure bill and you know all that stuff but the problem is when you talk about it so much it's like you forget that the the impact that that is going to have and the impact of that which let's say it comes before the end of the year which seems very likely at this point the impact of that is massive in terms of the I'm sure there's thousands of enterprises and institutions sitting on the sidelines literally waiting for that legislation to say, "Okay, great. Now, let's go. We've been waiting. We've got our research team. They're ready to go with blockchain. Here we go."

>> Yeah, I I think that's exactly right. Like a lot of those who has all the money and who has all the assets, right? It's it's mostly Trafy, right? It's it's mostly banks, that kind of stuff. They're not moving unless they have regulatory clarity, right? And they were never going to move unless they had regulatory clarity. But they will move because there's a lot of money for them to make, right? there's a lot of advant advantages for them to to realize. And so now the regulatory clarity is, you know, is coming. They're they're capitalists. Of course, they're going to to move their assets on chain and of course they're going to take part in this. There's just too much money for them to make. And, you know, I I would imagine over the next, you know, two or three years, everybody that has been saying like, you know, blockchain is a

solution in search of a problem, they're going to be eating their words. And uh I think it's it's going to we're going to look back at all the infrastructure that got built before actual utility was in place and we're going to be like, "Wow, people just had incredible conviction to build this infrastructure while there was no regulatory clarity and all of a sudden the floodgates opened and that infrastructure was there waiting for it." Like that that is an incredible dislocation of infrastructure built based off of hope and the assumption that things are going to work out. That that that's that's wild to me. But I'm also and have been convinced that it's it was just a matter of time.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It feels like a great like everybody listening like give yourself a pat in the back that you're still here, that you're still listening. You know, like we've been through we've been through so much and it would be so easy. It's funny. My my my episode yesterday was touched exactly on this is that the greatest strength to an investor is just to have the conviction and the fortitude to withstand the doubt and the noise and there's been so much noise just in the past you know particularly in the past six months but even beyond that through the past several years. So if you're still here way to go because the biggest the big things like the biggest moments are still to come. Uh and yeah I couldn't be more excited. Nick, really

pleasure to get you on the show today. Thanks for joining us. >> Thanks for having me, Jay. And uh everybody, go download Figure Markets and uh yeah, get your hands on some 9% yield with real world cash cash flowing assets back in it. >> Sounds pretty good. I'm going to go check it out right now. Actually, I already I was already looking at it before we we we recorded today. So, I think I think I might have to get into it. That's for sure. Thanks for joining us, Nick. And every everybody, thanks for listening in. I got to remind you as always, none of today's episode is financial advice. I'm not your financial adviser. Nick is not your financial adviser. If you need help with any of your investments, you should speak to a professional. Today's episode is for educational and entertain and enter entertainment purposes only. And one

more time, if you want to do me a favor because you're still listening to the show, first of all, I love you. Thank you. Second of all, go to Milkro Macro. Hit subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple, or wherever you listen and you could win a free one-year subscription to Milkro Macro Pro. That will make sure you stay on top of what is going on in the macro world and it doesn't sideline your investments. Thanks for listening in y'all. Have a wicked awesome day. We'll see you back again next week. And finally, I've got to give a shout out to our partners over at Nexo have just partnered with the DP World Tour, one of the leading golf tournaments in the world, 45 tournaments across four continents. And they're going to have

the Nexo Championship debuting this August in Scotland. So, keep an eye out for that because this is one of those things that feels very marketing talk, but I get super excited because when you think about sports and the crossover with the attention that it has and how many leading global brands are sponsoring massive sports tournaments, it's pretty exciting to see crypto brands sponsoring large sports tournaments as well. So, hat tip to Nexo. Way to go, guys. Thanks as always for doing what you guys do in the space. Thanks for tuning in, y'all. Have a wicked awesome day. We'll see you back again tomorrow. As always, if you liked today's episode, please hit subscribe and make sure you follow us so you don't miss out on the next one. There's also a link in the description to our free

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Thanks so much for listening in my friends. Have a wicked awesome