Staking chat, Enshrined rollups and more - The Daily Gwei Refuel #590 - Ethereum Updates

Transcript

hello everyone welcome to another episode of The Daily wear refuel where we cup the latest news in ethereum ecosystem I'm your host here and there's a sign of the 24th of May 2023. all right everyone let's get into it so apologies for missing yesterday's episode um I did mention in the Discord Channel that I have been missing pretty much an episode a week for I guess like the last four or five weeks or something like that uh and I've been trying really hard not to do that but yeah things just happen things just end up coming up and because I record these quite late my time like it's 10 p.m right now I usually record them between 10 and 11 p.m uh it can't you know I can run into other things I need to do and then I run out of time to to record a refuel so

that's why it usually happens like that so I'm going to try and change when I do the review and do it earlier in the day I usually wait until late so that I can get all the news from like the last 24 hours from when I did the previous episode and make sure I'm covering everything uh you know as close to up to date as possible but uh yeah I mean it's it's been it's been harder and harder for me to record at the same time so I might need to do it a few hours earlier which is fine I mean it's not a big deal and I think it should be able to work out better so I stop missing episodes but anyway back today to cover the the news from the last two days so first off we're starting off with a new release

from Prism so this is their I guess like more baked release uh that has a lot of the fixes and optimizations that will hopefully uh and I mean seem to have so far but will hopefully lead to a more much more robust prism client and so that we don't see those finality issues we saw again now the reason why I say this is a more baked update was that uh the fixes in the previous releases were basically I wouldn't say they were they were rushed out but it was done really quickly obviously because we wanted to make sure that the network stopped running into those finality issues because it happened once and obviously everyone was okay why is this happening and then we figured out why it happened and then it happened again 24 hours later and everyone's like well okay we need to get a hot fix out there right

now these things are usually called hot fixes right and then they're like you know we'll do the hotfix and then we'll release a more baked version of the client with better and more improvements more stable improvements later on which is exactly what they've done here so if you are running prism you should definitely upgrade to version 4.0.5 and I believe that uh the rock a rocker Paul smart note upgrade came out today as well a 1.9.5 I think which also contains this uh this client update so you can update it there but also if you're running rockable mini pools uh fun fact you can actually just manually update it by changing the release container in the rocketpool config so you don't have to actually wait for a new rocket pool uh smart note update you can actually just go in there and manually add it yourself

and that goes for any release on any kind of Cl ER client that the smart node stack supports which is pretty cool obviously but yeah great to see that uh that this has come out not too I guess long after the issues I think the issues were quite a week and a half ago now and we have a major update in in this from the the prilabs team here to address a lot of those issues which is really great to see along with a bunch of other issues I think as well which you can read the full details of in the GitHub uh release which I'll link in the YouTube description below all right so a few things about each staking I know I know I talk about he's taking a lot on the refuel but these things are quite uh important I think in

quite uh quite interesting so uh Remy Marie from the eat steak uh group here has announced that there's a new release of the eth wizard tool so for those of you who don't know the eat wizard tool is an easy way to set up a full ethereum validator node on Ubuntu or Windows in less than five minutes so now it comes with a step to install configure and maintain Mev boost automatically so I've talked about this before and mentioned how this is something that I think a lot of people are going to get a lot of value out of as it obviously keeps getting improved over time in order to make it really easy for you to just do that one click install of running an ethereum validator as a homesteaker at a solo sticker because still I mean there are guides out there I mentioned some of

esat's guides before I've mentioned Queen cashews guides I've mentioned um a few other video guides out there on the refuel but at the end of the day those guides are still not beginner level right I would say that you could be you could start as a beginner and learn your way around it but it's not like a plug and play thing and it's definitely not something where you can essentially uh go there just copy paste everything in um and it'll be okay you can copy paste it all in but you're going to run into roadblocks doing that and you're going to need to know uh various ways to get out of those roadblocks and funny enough a lot of the time you can get out of them by just Googling the issue but a lot of people don't actually Google things when it comes to computers they

don't they they're just it's not something that they do right it's not a it's not a muscle they know how to use which was always bizarre to me growing up because that's what I did I mean I've been tinkering with computers since I was really young but and whenever I ran into issues I would just Google the answer and nine times out of ten Google would actually have the answer for me because someone else ran into that same issue right and then there's a forum post and there's stack Overflow and things like that and you'd fix it but I started doing a lot of tech support for friends and family and I said to them I'm like you know did you did you Google did you try to fix this yourself before calling me and they're like uh no right what die can I do that I'm like what

what do you mean can you do that what do you you know you use Google and that yeah I use Google I'm like okay well you just type in the question right and the same is true for these AI tools like chat GPT and things like that uh they're going to get to the point where essentially they're going to just be your um your virtual uh help desk essentially for all things computer related but in saying all of that uh I think just for the everyday user they shouldn't have to be expected to to go through those Hoops to get started being a solo ethereum validator so that's why uh people like Steakhouse which you which Remy Roy is part of here groups like Steakhouse I should say are building tools like eth Wizards who just make it as dead simple as possible to get started solo staking

now I think other than um 8th wizard there's also uh in terms of like one click uh solo validating there's also dap note and Avada which I've talked about on the refuel as well they're great Solutions um but yeah it's just another one out there I I I I I don't want that just to just be one easy to use solution I want that to at least be two or three out there uh if not more obviously a lot of the time they're not something that's going to be making uh money for the people creating it they're not going to be it's not going to be like a recurring source of Revenue especially if it's open source and just completely free to use there are obviously add-ons that can be put onto there for the teams to make money but I really I mean with dabner

Nevada they I mean they sell the hardware as well so that's one way and they're more of a public good so they they get money via um if I get uh sorry git coin things like that but generally these things are done as as public goods they're not done as something that is a profit motive thing it's not like a proper business with VC backing and stuff like that and I think it actually has to remain like that because as soon as you start introducing profit incentives and profit motives into things like this what ends up happening is that the most logical conclusion is for the service to take a fee so if the service is taking a fee I wouldn't consider that to be like true homestaking or true solo staking I know rockapool takes a fee yeah but rockapole is more of a network right it it I mean

it is a network it's not like a centralized company taking that fee I think that's where I draw the distinction where it's a decentralized network then I think that's okay even if it's like a centralized Network which with only a small group of entities like lighter I think it's okay but when it becomes something like a like a centralized exchange for example or just like one entity one party taking a fee I think you can definitely warp incentives and obviously it's not a public good in that world so I would prefer these things to stay as public goods but I know that obviously uh the the people building these things need to eat you know they need to get paid for their work and hopefully uh they can continue getting paid via things like Bitcoin but honestly I wouldn't blame them if they went out and raised money and then maybe

they never uh you know they never generate Revenue but they were able to raise money to build this thing and then it just becomes a public good that it's maintained by people who just love you know love doing this stuff and there's plenty of infrastructure on the entire internet not just in crypto that is maintained via altruism right there a lot of these people aren't even paid when they should definitely be paid I remember reading a story quite a while ago that a lot of the major tech companies were using um this piece of Open Source software I can't remember exactly what it was and I think it was like one or two people maintaining it uh and there was a massive vulnerability in it at one point I think I think the vulnerability was called heart bleed and it might have been openssl I can't

remember exactly what it was but uh there was like two people maintaining this and they're doing it for free they were the companies weren't paying them to do this even though they were using it and they were using it for a large part of their business which just seems insane to me and it seems like something that crypto can can hopefully solve because I think it's a coordination issue but it seems insane to me that we have these open source tools that people maintain really for free even though these businesses are generating hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars of revenue from using these things and I think the same is true for a lot of ethereum infrastructure just generally um and that's why I think there's been such a strong push towards funding public goods as well not only with things like Bitcoin but also the

protocol Guild funding quarterback because we've seen people make stupid amounts of money both building stuff on ethereum but also forking ethereum forking all the work that the researchers and devs do and slap a token on it right like a lot of the other l1s are just forked versions of the evm which is built by ethereum core developers and researchers uh and then they slap a token on it and then they make hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars whereas these core devs they don't get any of that they don't see any of that so it's the same kind of concept here but but with crypto at least we have a very I mean at least within ethereum we have a very strong uh I guess um motivation to fund public goods but also a very strong Norm to fund public goods uh and and get money

to them I mean the protocol Guild uh alone is sending a lot of money to core devs and researchers and hopefully we'll get to it'll get to a point where they have so much money that they can send it'll become a Millions uh uh per contributor I mean maybe not every contributor because of the different weightings but still that's that's a lot but the funny thing is is that it's still not anywhere near the amount that uh people get for forking the code base and stuff like that so you can really see that a lot of the time people do this out of love uh for I guess like ethereum in this example and a lot of out of love for what they're building but that doesn't mean that they should do it for free they should definitely get paid for that but anyway that's a little bit of a rant there you

can go check out eighth wizard for yourself I'll link it in the YouTube description below all right speaking of staking the swell Network swell Voyage is now alive so you can join now to collect something they're calling pearls and become a citizen of the swell Dao so the tldr is that uh you can earn pearls as becoming part or taking in this Voyage uh and early voyages including holders of swell Discord rolls uh will be able to begin earning Paul pearls in exchange for helping to prepare for the voyage and are in a good position to maximize number of pearls that they collect in total uh pills can be collected throughout the voyage by holding uh sw8 which is the LSD token for uh swell here

and providing liquidity and then you can check out all the details here uh in this blog post about what this entails so essentially it's it's I wouldn't call it like a liquidity mining program but it's they're like incentive program that they're doing to get more people to stake with swell and honestly I've been very impressed with swell lately I I remember I've talked about soil a lot in the past and I've said to you guys as a disclosure I'm an investor in them before so obviously I have uh the exposure to them here but I I've been talking about them for for a long time now and they only launched recently and I've just really liked their marketing and business development that they've been doing especially their branding that they're going for with these little uh these little frogs here that they're they're you know they're Voyage branding

and like explore the um you know the the ocean and collect pearls and things like that I just I really love their marketing and branding here I think it just makes them stand out a lot because obviously uh you know rocketpool has their defined branding uh they're very orange that's that's like a meme in the community um you have Lido has their defined branding and and the other kind of lsts as well but I think that there are strong Brands and then there are weak Brands if you like rocker pool I think is a very strong brand they have the rocket staff they have the orange I think that's that's that's quite strong um I think swell is is developing themselves a quite a strong brand with these these frogs and these little characters and these little um um drawings and and animations and stuff

like that it gets it gets my attention um Lido I mean lighter always branding has never been its strong suit I think I think they're much stronger in the business development department than they are in The Branding Department um because I couldn't just like think of lighter and think of the top of my head what their branding is I think maybe their branding is just that they're um they're so big like it's kind of ironic how that can happen where you get so big and you get so dominant that that is your brand everyone knows that you're the dominant player uh and then the other lsts probably most of them are too small to really talk about right now uh because really I mean if I bring up the raider.network side here and we can check out the other lsts in terms of market share I mean coinbase and binance

I don't consider it to be just out in Kraken they're exchanges right I'm talking like pure lstcr I mean the only other one really is fracks I know they have their own Community um I don't know what kind of branding they have if we're talking about it from a branding perspective but uh but yeah I think rocketpool and swell seem to be the um the leaders right now in terms of branding uh and standing out which I think is just really really cool but anyway you can go read the details about this Voyager I'll link it in the YouTube description below and it may as well might be something that you're interested in staking with to help obviously with the further decentralization of the ethereum network all right so I came across a tweet here from eat wave on uh on Twitter a couple days ago where they were highlighting

where a lot of the eth was going from Lido like when it was withdrawn from Lido uh where was it going like what other service was it going to now I saw this big chart here that basically showed the Celsius withdrawal which was 444 000 eth I believe or something like that um which came out of lydo's buffer I think I think pretty much all of it has come out of lotus Lodo's buffer so far like all the eat that has been withdrawn and basically I asked for a chart with uh without that because I believe that's an outlier the Celsius withdrawal and the and eathway was kind enough to create one for me here uh using uh data that Tom Wan had put together here as well so you should definitely um go check out uh Tom Wan stuff and each wave stuff here and I'll link it in the

YouTube description below but if you look at it without celsius's withdrawal uh you can see where all this steak is going to now this plays into what I've been talking about for a while now about this great reshuffling that I figured that we'd see post merge now obviously this doesn't show all of the reshuffling it's just showing uh people going from Lido to elsewhere so essentially yeah at time that this data was created uh outside of the Celsius withdrawal there was 16 700 each withdrawn with uh most of it going to rocketpool so 7700 went to rocketpool uh 3 100 went to frax and then uh the rest of the remainder went to a bunch of other services such as binance swell uh and a few others here so only 336 of it was restaked with with Lido Finance which makes sense I guess

if there's probably just like an Arbitrage thing that's happening there more so than users withdrawing um but I thought this was just I thought this was just a very interesting piece of data to show on the refuel now I did say before that I would like to wait a while before seeing this kind of data it's been a month right it's been I mean it's been more than a month now since withdrawals went live it's coming up on six weeks actually since withdrawals went live but I still don't think that's long enough to do any kind of detailed retrospective and obviously see this is just lighter I would like to see the whole network so I'm hoping that well maybe I won't hope maybe I'm going to pay someone to do this for me in a year's time so on the anniversary of or of um chappella so on April 13th or 14th

whatever it was in 2024 I want to do like a 12-month retrospective of Eve staking and see where all the Earth was withdrawn from and where it went to as well as where all the new stake went to and then just break all of that down and see who were the winners who were the losers did we actually improve the decentralization of the ethereum network uh how did the market share change you know who are the new players who I mean well who are the players that won who are the players that lost and all that stuff but as I said like I don't think it's enough data yet I think it's cool to look at this and see that that a reshuffling is happening to an extent but it's not like a great reshuffling right there's not hundreds of thousands of each leaving Lido to go elsewhere I

mean Celsius for some reason um I mean obviously you guys know Celsius is currently in a bankruptcy proceeding but by not having that eighth staked the amount of eight that they have right now staked they're missing out on a ton of money I think it's like hundreds of thousands of dollars a day or something like that uh by not um us taking this eighth I don't I don't know exactly how much it is even if it's only 100K a day I mean only right that's how much they're missing out so the opportunity cost here is absolutely massive for them to have just withdrawn from lighter and not restaked now in saying that if they were to restake all of that eth right now I mean they'd have to go through the queue so what would end up happening is that I mean they could either I mean they could restack

with Lido and then the way Lido does it is that they they have this buffer thing and then the yield is shared across everyone as long as you're holding Ste they could just go with Lido but if they wanted to not go with Lido and let's say they wanted to stake all of it on their own well they would have to go into the deposit Cube which is currently around 38 days I believe so they would miss out on 38 days worth of um of of stake there I mean they're already missing out but 38 days to just to speak about the opportunity cost here guys is is massive if they're missing out on a hundred thousand dollars a day that's 3.8 million dollars that they miss out on by uh just going through and trying to stake now so I don't know if that's the

reason they haven't done it I think it's a bit of a silly reason it may have something to do with the bankruptcy stuff where maybe they're not allowed to have a Stakes maybe they only had it staked because they were waiting for withdrawals to be enabled because they pretty much withdraw from Lido shortly after withdrawals were enabled on on Lido so it yeah and and as far as I know they're still holding it as eth so we'll have to see what happens to that I don't know I mean given that they're in a bankruptcy proceeding some of that eth may be sold obviously a lot of it is customers eighth so we'll have to see where that ends up there but as I said uh cool chart here from uh from eathway if you shared it and using Tom lands data here but as I said I would I'm

going to wait and do that proper retrospective uh at the 12 month Mark uh when that happens next yeah all right so the privacy and scaling Explorations group are from the ethereum foundation here has put out a blog post titled ZK evm Community Edition part one so the ZK VM Community Edition is exploring how zero knowledge proofs can verify every layer 1 block this Spirit series explores the common components logic and structure all this collaborative effort to scale ethereum so this is basically uh and I think it's this is mostly talking about like enshrining a ZK evm at layer 1 ethereum there's also the concept of snarkifying the base layer which is something the vitalik has spoken about for a little uh for a

little while but I don't think that is um that that's a lot to do with this I think this is a separate thing we're essentially being able to enshrine Ezekiel is sorry azk evm into the L1 now you can read the post here I'll link it in the YouTube description below but there's also a part two of the components and a part three of uh of uh logic and structure as well which is available here so if you're interested in this sort of stuff as I said it'll be linked in the YouTube description below but this stuff is very bleeding edge and there's a hot debate I think across the crypto ecosystem generally right now about like enshrined versus not in Shrine Roll-Ups and the ecosystem I think that he's doing in Shrine Roll-Ups

in his furthest along with it so far is tazos from what I've seen um and I I personally am still new neutral on it I think that they both as I've explained in the past I think that they both have their pros and cons but I'm rather neutral because I haven't seen enough uh I guess like research development and usage of enshrined Roll-Ups to make a kind of more informed uh I guess uh a view on this especially because we don't have it in ethereum like it's all well and good for there to be an enshrined roll-up on tazos but there's hardly any activity on tazos and for it to be at the same level of ethereum it would have to grow like a thousand X or something so when I think about that I think really the only way I'm going to be able to form a good view

on it is seeing this on ethereum layer one now we may never get in like a proper enshrine roll-up on ethereum layer one it may just become a thing where where everyone agrees that it's too complex there's no point because we're we already have all the um ZK VMS and other uh Roll-Ups at Layer Two so it doesn't really make sense to enshrine it as part of layer one but who knows right that's that's up in the air there's no definitive answer on that yet but but I mean I say I'm neutral I I think I'm Mutual with like a bias towards uh non-enshined Roll-Ups just because I really like the fact that with a non-enshrined roll-up you can have many of them and you can have many different approaches to it and you can have many different teams working on it and you can have more Express more of an

expressive uh ecosystem that is more of a bizarre model than a cathedral model so for example you have arbitrim1 uh which is different to optimism which is obviously different to the ZK avms which and then you have different types of ZK Roll-Ups and ZK VMS like type one type two type three and you have uh non-evm uh roll ups and and you have privacy Roll-Ups like Aztec uh the non-avm ones obviously stuff like stock net so if you were to do an enshrined roll-up you wouldn't have any of that because the enshrined roll up would have to basically abide by the rules of the layer one so you would lose a lot of that expressivity what you would gain is a an extremely secure role I mean the most secure destruction of a roll-up

ever because it would basically be baked into the layer 1 protocol and you would also I I believe you would gain um uh I think that the main benefit people kind of I guess um uh uh talk about is the fact that you can just use eight there's no need for an external token and you can basically just use uh the validators as your sequences existing ethereum L1 validators as your sequences I I mean I don't think that that's a big deal as long as people sorry as long as these Roll-Ups continue to use ether's gas but again they're probably not even going to use ether's gas because they're probably going to abstract that away eventually and the end user will just pay in like a whatever maybe whatever token they want and then ultimately it will obviously settle down to ethereum layer one as as

an eighth fee but uh generally I I don't know I don't find them very convincing arguments but there are pros and cons as I said I just would like to see this play out on a big ecosystem like ethereum before I made any kind of strong opinions on it it's more of just like a general you that I have uh that or a general bias that I have towards the non-enshined Roll-Ups but it'll be interesting to see how that all plays out over time anyway you can check out the blog post I'll link it in the YouTube description below So speaking of layer twos and Roll-Ups roll ups Roll-Ups bartek had a great tweet thread here now talking about uh vitalik's different milestones for roll-up maturity now I have obviously uh talked about this a lot on the refill

before and this was vitalik's post on the fellowship of ethereum magicians Forum where he said proposed milestones for Roll-Ups taking off training wheels and he split this up into three different stages so stage zero he's got full training wheels stage one limited training wheels and stage two no training wheels now bar text thread basically talks about this and says how l2b will be soon displaying the stage of a roll-up uh of the roll-up on its page but however it is worth noting that given the complexity of actual implementations the team had to First make sure that all roll-up parameters are correct and up to date uh so obviously when reporting on this stuff and when showing it on uh on kind of sites that are trying to be an authority like l2beat you want to make sure you

get this as correct as possible and I think vital Express was a good springboard but the right edge cases here that could that could for example put something in stage one instead of stage zero zero and maybe l2b listed as stage zero and there's a disagreement there and the team says no we're stage one based on metallics definition so you always need to have things defined and especially catch those edge cases and then that's what bartek's trying to do with l2beat obviously as well and the L2 beat team is doing generally but anyway you can read bar text tweet thread I'll link it in the YouTube description below for you to do so all right so there has been a lot of talk about crypto gaming for quite a while now um that web3 gaming crypto

getting nfts there is a a lot of money that's gone into this there's a lot of projects working on this personally I haven't seen anything that's too appealing to me yet a lot of it looks like games that you would see in just like non-crypto gaming um but with a lot of nft stuff or crypto stuff bolted on just for the sake of it there's one big exception here and that is a lot of the things being done in the starknet ecosystem with the different game engines that had been developed here and terence.ethia who is building a cartridge and works um in the stocknet ecosystem has highlighted why uh this Dojo that he's calling it is uh is is great and he's saying here that it's the first provable game engine it leverages Cairo to ensure the Integrity of a

game's execution logic enabling developers to easily build complex verifiable games and autonomous worlds on top of Stark now now this concept of autonomous world is something that's been talked about a lot as well optimism has also done stuff here but essentially this is the stuff that's most interesting to me stuff that's actually leveraging crypto Primitives to create something new instead of just bringing the games that we're all used to from the non-crypto space into crypto and then slapping nfts and crypto stuff on it which a lot of the time just looks like Ponzi mechanics and I personally really don't like a lot of games these days they used to be a massive gamer but a lot of games these days have these Ponzi mechanics in them or have these

micro transactions and have all this crap in them and it really just makes me not want to play them I I I play a lot of Indie Games these days because for the most part they are they don't have that stuff but Triple A games generally have just become such garbage uh and I feel like crypto is taking the worst part of AAA gaming and bringing it into crypto and being like hey you know we have a crypto game when in reality to me a crypto game is something that takes advantage of crypto Primitives uh other than nfts and other than uh you know the ponzinomics and stuff like that which is exactly what uh ecosystems like stock net are trying to do with these provable game engines which you can read about in this thread from Terence here because it's quite a long thread but very interesting and I'll

link it in the YouTube description below but that's what I would be focusing on guys this stuff in the stockinette ecosystem the autonomous World stuff uh polymer has actually had a few blog posts about this recently if you go to their profile you'll find that on there uh rather than focusing on a lot of the other stuff now I know I I not to say that the other stuff hasn't got mirror and that I'm not excited about a lot of it but I think that the other stuff suffers a lot from the experimentation a lot of the the stuff's just being like pure experiments where the ones that get the most attention are the ones with the best pawn xenomics and the incentives get Warped but I don't think that the platforms themselves are at fault here for that like for example immutable X I'm a big fan of that ecosystem

um but you know the the incentives can sometimes get whopped where you build something on that platform and you say okay well how can I get attention on this I'll do some liquidity mining I'll do some incentives and then it gets warped and the same is true for pretty much everything in crypto but for me the most interesting stuff is is stuff like autonomous worlds improvable game engines and a lot of the stuff happening in the starknet ecosystem but as I said you can check out this thread it'll be linked in the YouTube description below all right I just wanted to highlight this funny meme from a Wookie here uh where he says how to Dow in two easy steps and for those of you who are listening to the podcast can't see my screen it's just a meme with the neutral wojak face uh saying uh step one

around and then uh the second step is find out which is uh a face of um the the Green Road Jack with the up arrows and then the the basically the defeated woe Jack or the wojack with all the scribbly lines on it if you've seen that before um and then underneath there it's got the crying rojak and the um the euphoric world Jack and then repeat so the reason why it's like this is because Dallas are really awesome and really cool when they when they work and they're cohesive but when they don't work and when they're not cohesive they are really really bad um they are so bad that a lot of the Dows that I've seen have really just turned into uh ways to loot the treasury and kill the project and then the locusts just move on right they just

take the money and they move on but the how's that work the Dows that can coordinate properly the dowels that are well are run like well-alled machines admittedly there's not many of them or the ones that are like that at least maybe they started off like that and then became obviously the uh the other Towers um they're beautiful things the key thing that we have to do in the ethereum ecosystem is figure out how to take the early stages of a dow where it's actually working properly and scale that up and make sure that the late stages of the Dow don't just turn into a free-for-all loot the treasury and go on our merry way and I think that the we can solve that but it really is all coordination and coordination issues have plagued Humanity since day one uh

and we have we I mean we solved it to an extent we solved it with like the worst case systems which is the systems that a lot of a lot of the first world has today obviously I'm talking about democracy but I'm not saying democracy is bad but it really is the least worst system I mean the best argument against democracy is having a 10-minute conversation with your average vodar because really most people the vast majority of people are not informed enough to be making uh you know informed votes or don't pay enough attention to be making informed votes as part of a democratic system so what ends up happening is that in a democracy it ends up just becoming a popularity contest where the loudest voices win and we've seen this play out time and time again that's not to say democracy is bad it's

just the least worst system because all the other systems that we've tried to do um through governance have actually been worse but it's not like democracy is is great uh it I mean it's great for what it is but we can potentially do better and that's what humans have been doing for for tens of thousands of years evolving our governance processes and Dows are just another form that they can take but yeah Dow suffer from a very big scaling uh or structural scaling problem where essentially as soon as they reach a certain size turns of the free-for-all wild west and everything goes to so that's why I think a Wookie created this meme because he's had a lot of experience with different types of dows and how things can get uh well how things can be euphoric and how things can be really really shitty but anyway

on that note I'm gonna leave it at that for today so thank everyone for listening and watching be sure to subscribe to the channel if you haven't yet give it a thumbs up subscribe to newsletter join the Disco Channel and I'll catch you all tomorrow thanks everyone