A Stablecoin Explosion Is Coming (And How To Take Advantage)- M0 CEO

Transcript

People like under 30 probably they have never been in a bank branch. >> This is such a fundamental disruption to the underlying infrastructure of money. >> They interact with financial applications and they will keep interacting with financial applications. >> Luca Prosper is one of DeFi's most respected credit and governance leaders. Known for his work across Maple, Gearbox, and Makerdo where he helped shape onchain credit markets and institutional DeFi strategy. With a background in traditional finance and protocol governance, he sits at the intersection of capital, credit, and cryptonnative risk. Consumers stopped going to bank branches a while ago. They will never go back.

>> Welcome back to the rule. This is your home to learn from the biggest guests, the brightest minds at the tip of innovation. Our goal is to help spread the collective knowledge of everyone in our community. >> We are breaking crypto out of its echo chamber and taking it to the real world. Sit back, relax, and enjoy it. >> I mean, it's gnarly. And I think, you know, part of the philosophy is that you put yourself through hard things as a means of getting better. And you know, and my dad used to say this, I think it was a JFK quote. He was he said, you know, we don't do things because they're easy. He was talking about getting to the moon. We do things because they're hard makes things more meaningful and also kind of gives us the reassurance that we're able to do difficult things.

And so is that part of your do do you kind of put yourself through the strain of you know a weekl long hike in the mountains no sleep at you know 25,000 you know in altitude? Do you do this as a means of like putting yourself through something difficult and just seeing you can do it or do you get some genuine sense of appreciation or or fulfillment? What what pushes you to do difficult things? >> I think it's a combination of the two things. I I think I I've always had like a very deep relationship with pain uh for some reason. I used to be a semi-professional athlete before while I was uh doing my career as a banker and um I think it's a bit of a bit is the

challenge but also the the truth of going through experiences that are really hard. uh you know we live in this virtual world where like everybody is uh pretending to be something and uh but when you go through this stuff there is no there's no pretending it's very real and and I think I also think that pain in general is one of the most powerful forward moving forces we have um now I think that when you are when you have this type of relationship with pain, it also also can become addictive. So, you really want to go through hard stuff.

Um, because the kick you get out of it is is massive. And and I mean, I don't want to get too personal, but this is also why I started being being an entrepreneur. I was the typical insecure overachiever. I was a mathematician. I used to be in traditional finance. I was an investor. Um I got diagnosed with uh block cancer the first week of COVID lockdown. I used to be a semi-professional arament distance athlete. So I was very fit. Something was wrong and I thought I had COVID. I went to the hospital in March. I was living in London. They told me no you don't have COVID but you have cancer. I was like sorry sorry. So they put me and my wife in a room for for like seven eight months in isolation

when I was doing chemotherapy. And um the experience was obviously brutal. Uh but I understood so much about myself and it gave me so much self-confidence about what I wanted to do in my life that then the life after that was completely different. And so I think that I always go back uh to to this type of experiences that are super pure and super genuine. >> Is that when you realized you wanted to be an entrepreneur? >> Yeah. Yes. I mean, I didn't realize I wanted to be an entrepreneur. I realized I just wanted to do whatever I wanted to do with my life without caring about what the the others thought and I had a huge sense of urgency and that became natural. The rest became natural. Um,

I always like, you know, it's part of my French, but I always think that the real superpower in life is not giving a about what other people think. And uh I think to be a I mean I'm not I cannot say I'm a successful entrepreneur but to be an impactful entrepreneur to try to be an impact impactful entrepreneur you need to be that you cannot live somebody else's um framework on how to launch a company. You don't read books on how to launch a company. You live your life and then you decide to do it. Um but but Jensen Jensen from Nvidia says like I I hope hardship happens to you and I think this is a very powerful quote. It certainly teaches us and to your point about entrepreneurship and

it's it's something you almost find you know we call ourselves founders but ultimately this life found finds us and and you know we talk a lot about competition on this show but ultimately you have to focus on your own product and your own self because you spend too much time thinking about competition and it it you know throws you off course but to to build something truly unique you have to be an independent thinker and I think something that you're describing is that to to not be to to think too much about competition or or not have these hardships is to really, you know, to not give a a about what other people think. That's the way to become an independent thinker. Um, and it then begins you on this journey in which you

can continue to explore some of these thoughts and then you can kind of you can find uh really what what life entails after. And and there's so much creativity and fertile ground to explore when you start exploring some of these independently thought things that doesn't really matter if anyone else cares about them or thinks about them because you're exploring them. And there's so much to learn in that in that crease. And so I'm just curious, maybe you can continue to tell your story after being diagnosed, being in this room, learned about really becoming an independent thinker and why it was so important to you and and starting your entrepreneurial journey. What happened next and and generally how did you find M0? First of all, going back to what

you're saying, I think that there is a I think an important distinction that being an independent thinker doesn't doesn't mean being arrogant and not listening to the feedback you receive around. I think what is very important is having relentless conviction in what you're doing, which is almost um um maniac, right? I mean I I always say like you know I I was an investor before so I don't need to do risk management for my investors. What I mean is like my investors they have a portfolio and they have a portfolio of different entrepreneurs that are different bats.

I'm one of their bats. So my my role is to go 500 kilometers an hour to try to achieve what I want to achieve. I cannot hedge my own company. Um so you you need crazy insane relentless conviction and um and also like re like absorbing feedback but but what you're saying is also true that we see so because the because the role of the entrepreneur is so um glamour these days people say okay I want to find found a company I I need to find the idea as you said you said before 100% agree it's like you get to a place where there is no other thing to

do. You just need to do your own stuff and it's not a choice. Uh that's that's the only choice. And for me like you know I' I've always been an independent thinker but I don't come from a family of entrepreneurs. My family are doctors. They're probably against risk. Uh they're super risk averse. So I I did like I did all the box ticking I could do. I went to business school. I started in consulting, went to business school, I became an investment banker, I went into private equity. Uh but always with not 100% satisfaction because I I never I never flourished in these environments because I I am a uh I am a disruptor and if you work in Morgan Stanley, you're not I mean you

cannot be a disruptor. You need to be a great general in an army which is a very powerful army. So I think it was very natural when I I so I spent my my 2020 curing I I was diagnosed with a lymphoma which was an advanced large mass Hodkins lymphoma that thank God was curable. Um I spent 2020 with my now wife doing pretty brutal chemotherapy. It took me a while to recover. Uh ironically the word was on pause while I was doing this. So uh because of COVID but then I just started to I didn't want to go back doing what I was doing before and I started to study I started writing um my career in crypto

starts as a writer. I used to I I still write a substack called dirt roads which is very deep about DeFi and uh new money rails. I started naturally like organically collaborating with some projects uh advising some funds up to the point that actually some of the investors I was advising they told me like look you should start your own your own business. So I always joke that M0 raised $100 million of equity and never had a pitchbook for the money I raised. Not because of arrogance simply because I had an organic conversation with investors that saw what I was doing. what what was my view of the world? So I think at the end of 2022 I was at the time I was

collaborating with Maker one of the largest DeFi projects ever and I I realized I I thought that those DeFi projects were great proof of concepts but they were not really ready to scale digital money i.e. stable coins uh where I I thought the the category could go and so with Greg who was also coming from the M0 foundation from the from from the from the Maker Foundation uh we decided to found M0. So we raised a very large seed round of $22.5 million in January 2023 where when stable coins were absolutely not fancy and FTX had just collapsed. So it was definitely not

uh but you know we had conviction so we had a lot of uh we had a lot of uh demand for what we were doing and then from then on we started working and stable coins became super super hot as a topic and we think we're still scratching the surface. We think that money ultimately is infrastructure. M0 wants to build the most innovative money infrastructure in the world and we think that digital money in general is the next iteration of bank deposits. that are completely that are going to completely re rewrite the way we interact with money.

>> Uh so there is a lot lot lots of things to do. So you also need to have a very long-term vision because you have 20 30 years ahead to work which is a privilege in my opinion. >> Blockchain shortcuts, templates and widgets launch without friction for builders by builders. Visit enso.build. Relay, low fees, lightning speed, and the power of multi-chain at your fingertips. Instant multi-chain payments. Choose any token on any chain. 75 plus network supported. More than 5 million users, 8 billion plus volume processed, 70 million plus transactions, fast, reliable, everywhere. Start

swapping today only on relay. And especially it it speaks to why you raised so much so early to give you runway to realize long-term vision. And so we recently had a guest on on our show and name escapes me, but I remember what he said which was that it it was unexpected that uh we were going to have the landscape of stable coins that we have today. Um early on uh we could have said look Tether USDC we know that these are going to survive. We believe in these stable coins. But what we ended up with was a proliferation of stable coins. Tens if not hundreds if not thousands of stable coins. Different stable coins will go live. And so M0 is effectively stable coins as a service.

You can correct me if you know there's there's a better explanation, but how do you think M0 fits into the landscape when we're when we're talking about just a wide breadth of stable coins rather than a very deep and narrow uh trajectory? How how does how does that landscape evolve? >> I would like to try to step back one second and just for example make a parallel with where we live today. So how many vers how many dollars do we have today? >> Uh well we have US dollars. We have several other different foreign exchange currencies.

>> Even US dollars there are thousands of US dollars. Every bank now every bank where you have the money deposited actually has a completely different risk profile from the other. The reason why you don't consider them different flavors but you consider them as one is because there are there is a lot of liquidity and there is like a there is an entity behind it like a central banker of a treasury that guarantees some sort of interoperability but the dollar that you have like the M1 dollar that you have in a in an HSBC bank account and a JP Morgan Chase bank account and a Barclays bank account or Silicon Valley bank account are completely different dollars. Um so the way you don't you ignore it is that the

infrastructure that connects them works very well is very interoperable and very liquid and all this in all the complexity of this infrastructure is abstracted away from the user because you see an application and there is a balance you see like a venode there is a balance you see Robin Hood there is a balance I think the same is the same is happening in stable coins now in the early days we have this brands of stable coins that represent and the issuance of a dollar. I think this is going to be behind us very soon. Uh we will just have every application we interact with controlling their own dollar stack and behind behind the scenes infra. Now

circle is also infra. Tether is a mix. Tether is infra in distribution at the same time because if you're going to emerging markets, people really like the brand Tether. Um, so I think that where where where M0 wants to play, M0 wants to create the most advanced onchain native infrastructure that connects all those applications. So that if you want to if you want to launch Revolute, if you wanted to create Revolute today, instead of creating a front end that connects with APIs with like a bank as Revolute was born 15 years ago, uh you would just have a front end that is directly interacting with smart contract and programs the dollar that exists on their

platform on M0. So we we just want to be behind the scenes and having infra that powers all those forms dollars and this infra is evolving. So obviously control of the yield is number one. Control of compliance how interoperable this stuff is with other with other uh with other applications and other features that we will keep adding. >> Um so that's our vision of the word transparent and very fast infrastructure. something that you described when when we're talking about the the landscape of US dollars today is it we have the illusion of fungeability like you're saying the central bank guarantees the interoperability and

guarantees >> up to a certain extent >> up to a certain extent that all of these banks have you know US dollars real stamp money US dollars in their in in our bank accounts and it gives the illusion that there's fungeability between Silicon Valley bank and Barriclays and city and all these different banks And what we have in blockchain land on stable coins is we have fragmentation. And so we don't think of the fragmented landscape of US dollars. We don't think of it the same way because we don't have a guarantor to give us the illusion of fungeability between these different stable coins. So there's been some some G there's the Genius Act kind of guarantees like you know if they meet this these

requirements and this criteria then they do have the stamp of money but we're going to continue to have all of these stable coins and so is there I I guess how do we come to the illusion of funggeability or really guarantee the fungeability of stable coins on chain you're touching I think in my opinion the most important point because the most important aspect of money is not the solveny. It is solveny is important but is liquidity interoperability. You need to be able you need you need your money to be accepted like you know tether for example it's so liquid that nobody really cares what is backing it.

Nobody knows what is backing it. Now it's getting better like there is more transparency but definitely the level of transparency is not that of a genius act. Right. A good point because I remember Bitfinex and uh Tether back in Bitfinex days was like what is backing this? There was a lot of conspiracy theories but those have kind of dissolved. Yeah. Dissolved. Yes. But still there are like tens of billions of dollars of credit of of credit instruments in the Ted's balance sheet that people kind of ignore uh because it's trusted enough and is the right thing to do. C like regulatory uh improvements like the Genius Act have provided more like better grounds for this solvency and a bit of interoperability. But what happens like you have what it means is that you have

stable coin A, stable coin B, let's say they're both genius compliant. If you if you want if you want to move from stable coin A to stable coin B, you need to go back to the fiat system and then you go you go back to the other stable coin. So what I'm trying to say is that there is a fiat rails and there are crypto rails on top and all this on and off ramping uh is very that people use today in the so-called stable coin sandwich. They they moved into a stable coin. They go somewhere else and they go back in the fiat system >> is very inefficient. It's a bit like imagine like we are we just invented emails and digital photography. We're say oh it's so cool. We can scan a picture, send it. I can send I can scan a picture, send it to you, and you can

print it and frame it at home. Now, fast forward 20 years, nobody's scanning or printing pictures anymore. They are born digitally. They're still digitally. So, I think we need some um frameworks to create this interoperability directly on chain where money, digital money lives. And we don't have it now because most of the stable coins actually move uh through secondary markets. you need you need secondary liquidity markets which are very expensive because they require ton of capital to function and that's what we want to do also at M0 like imagine um M0 for simplicity is um so what M0 is doing in a nutshell is um it's completely separating what we what

we call the upstream and the downstream of money the the upstream of money is okay I am a bank I want to be an issuer of a stable coin I want to give life to a stable coin so I keep the collapse collateral secure. I do the regulatory compliance and then I push the button and create a token. That is the upstream of money. Everybody wants to issue a stable coin today. Nobody cares. The most important thing is whether this stable coin is actually embedded in the financial applications we use. That's what we call the downstream of money. So if you are cast, if you are uh MetaMask, if you are hyperlquid and you decide what what type of dollar powers your infrastructure, your users

just use it. So M0 separates completely the two things. Now you have many issuers that can issue the same token uh is a white labelled let's say token called M and many integrators only with code. They take this code token and they program it downstream. That means that the integrators are co are developers. They don't care about the issuance, the banking rails, etc. They just take a token and they do cool stuff on top of it and the issuers on the other side that just issue one token and they sell it into the flow. That also means that all the liquidity network the interoperability network is one is created around this open- source token called them. You don't need to fragment it because as you were saying like you know fragmentation is a very big

problem. All these stable coin as a service uh companies of the early days of the previous generation every success story is making the next success story more difficult >> because you I I am Paxos I'm creating PayPal USD for you PayPal you're it's very very successful is making the next launch more difficult because then you need to bootstrap your liquidity layer from scratch and why would you do it there is no need to do that um but we we were early in this vision of the word but we are seeing a convergence of many other players is starting to do the same.

>> You mentioned MetaMask and you guys are the deployers of the MetaMask stablecoin. So could you talk to us about how that came to be? >> Absolutely. Because I think this is a great example of how we see the world. So first of all, we start from like seeing like we think that non the future of financial services is going to be non-custodial. There are going to be the new finan fintech powerhouses will be non-custodial. MetaMask is an example. So Metam Mask has I don't know I think like 30 to 40 or more uh monthly active users in um on platform million >> 30 to 40 million. Yeah.

>> Yes. Which is like twice Coinbase. Huge. And they have like tens of billions of dollars of assets sitting on their platform. So they're saying okay I mean we would like to control more of the experience of our users. So we invested on a layer two called linear like base for Coinbase. We would like to have like a a digital dollar asset, a MetaMask dollar that is fully integrated with our services, with our swap engines, etc. We control it. We control the yield instead of just leaving it to leaving it to uh circle and there is a bunch of stuff that we we we we want to control how it connects with our credit card products on and off ramp paying etc. And so they decided to partner with us to design

this digital dollar form called MetaMask USD. So MetaMask USD is ultimately an extension of this M token that I told you before with very specific MetaMask requirements and certain like um frameworks for liquidity interoperability that they require that we built for them. Uh so MetaMask is our ideal client because they're just thinking about non-custodial. They cannot KYC their their customers their customers are non-custodial. They're thinking in crypto in crypto rails. Now they also had a requirement though there is a regulatory requirement and say we would like the MetaMask dollar to be onshore compliant with US uh with US law because a lot of our clients are in the

US. A lot of the products most probably that we will bootstrap will be in the US. So we need an issue of record of this token. It is a US institution. So the institution that brings to life this token and stores the collateral and we decided to partner with bridge to do that. So you know bridge has been acquired by stripe a year a year ago. We have known Zach and the team Zach Ariel and the team for a long time. We have a lot of respect for them. Uh they're very smart in engineering wise uh which is rare like you you have a lot of issuers of stable coins in traditional finance that don't really understand how crypto rails work >> and so they are they connected to the protocol to bring it to life. So what it means is that uh every time

how how is the Metamas dollar born like somebody goes into like a pool like an AMM pool like a decentralized exchange pool deposits USDC and wants to swap for MetaMask dollar they find the Metamas dollars there ready for them. Now when this when the pool runs out of metamas dollars there is a market maker that takes all these USDC's goes to bridge and say okay uh mint more metamas dollars the guys at bridge they they take the USDC for simplicity they buy eligible collateral treasuries onchain or offchain they put them in a box they use the the the M0 protocol to verify these reserves and

and they create these meta dollars technically they create m they wrap that that is wrapped into MetaMask dollars. So they bring it to life. So all the onchain part of the infrastructure is M0. All the offchain part of uh the stack is bridge. And this is a very very powerful very powerful uh partnership. The clients uh the the users of MetaMask and MetaMask itself ignores all the complexity of of the off-chain banking rails. They're abstracted away. They just take a token and they program and it is very powerful like you know we had now we have many developers that can bootstrap their own stable coins or they

can embed stable coins in their own applications through M0 going to the M0 libraries and just doing it only with code in a matter of uh like hours or days and behind the scenes there are issuers that issue create these tokens and bring it to market and they don't the developers they don't need to Do APIs with banks, KYB with banks, or do stuff like >> the wait is over. The Talis test net is live. Be part of the revolution. Join now at testnet.talis.network. Asset management redefined. Built on ERC7621.

Standardize how you launch, manage, and trade onchain baskets. This is Alvara, the standard for onchain asset management. Habachi provable. Trade perks with speed and security. Earn rewards. Visit hibbachi.xyz. Trading on fire. >> This is such a fundamental disruption to the underlying infrastructure of money. Do you think consumers are going to be disrupted? Do do you think they're going to have any idea that now their digital money is running on a blockchain? >> No, I think I I think that so I mean I am I am 42 years old, so definitely I'm older than the average crypto user.

Uh >> you look young. >> Yeah, I mean it's uh I'm definitely my prime, let's say. Uh but uh I haven't been in a bank branch. I don't know last time I was in a bank branch. So I think that people like under under 30 probably they have never been in a bank branch. >> So they interact with financial applications >> and they will keep interacting with financial applications. I think the difference is going to be for the financial applications. this is going to be so much easier to launch fintech apps of any kind because they will plug uh into they will be wallet centric and plug into blockchain infrastructure instead of bank APIs. So I think the consumer will just see a proliferation of innovation of of fintech applications

because it's going to be so much easier for fintech entrepreneurs to build cool stuff on top of blockchain rails. Um but the consumers they stopped going to the uh to the bank branches a while ago. They will never go back. >> And so that that's how this evolution may impact you know the the set of people that are offchain and maybe have this this loose relationship with money. But the people onchain are having a very close look at this. For instance, my last guest, you know, question is effectively how how does this onslaught of stable coins coming in into the onchain world, what what will be some of the second order effects that take place on chain? You know, our our last guest

will you know said the lending markets, you know, these are lending these are applications that stand to gain because when stable coins come in, generally more things coming on chain, people are going to want to collateralize it. What other knock-on effects do you think are going to take place on chain as a result of trillions of stable coins coming on? >> I think everything uh I think more liquidity comes in uh more um substance there is for onchain uh primitives to actually function. Lending markets is a great example. I think lending markets are uh a very very powerful primitive. Um the more liquidity comes in, the more assets come

in because there is liquidity, the more you can use them, decentralized exchanges, uh daxes that are also evolving, prediction markets, uh now fixedterm lending markets, laser, a lot of a lot of stuff that that can be finally powered for when there are like billions and trillions of transactions happening on chain. So I am a I I'm a I don't like to to say a maximalist but I am a D5 believer. I think the difference is like the D5 we will see decentralized finance we will see in the in the next phase is going to be different from the previous one. is going to be more institutional friendly. Uh it's going to be semi-permissioned still run on Ethereum but it's going to be more

programmable so that institutions can can interact and we already seeing it like if you see the difference between a as a lending market and morpho morpho allows institutions to have siloed lending markets. They know who is providing liquidity. They know who is tapping that that liquidity. Um, unis swap v4 uh the new the new iteration of the most famous decentralized exchange allows hooks. So you can you can actually control the the the premises of the lending markets that you bootstrapped.

We will we are power users of unis swap uh infrastructure. So defi is also evolving. It's becoming more sophisticated uh as more money comes in. >> Fascinating. And and so I guess one of my last questions here is is what what do you say to the next issuer of a major stable coin on M0? H how does the MetaMask stable coin help the next success story of the next one to to launch on M0? >> I am saying two different things to like the because we when we say issuer we think that like we confuse two um two roles like for example the meta mask.

Metamask is not an issuer. Metamask is just an integrator, right? >> You said it's bridge that >> exactly. So I think the issuer and the the extension partners we call it or the application um I'm saying two different things. So the issuer I'm just saying that stop to anybody who's thinking about issuing a stable coin a financial institution who's thinking or a bank to issue a stable coin is stop uh uh believing that you can actually launch the next tether and you can make tethers money issuing a stable coin. Nobody cares about the stable coin you're issuing. In the same way, nobody knows who is actually the custodian of the securities we have in Robin Hood. So, you need to make yourself your your your

instrument programmable and developer friendly enough so that is integrated in the applications. If your instrument is not developer friendly, it will die with you. What I'm actually saying instead to the developers after MetaMask story is everybody who is uh intermediating huge sums of client funds uh by relying on proprietary third party solutions which are great still like tether or circle they're giving up control they're giving up best case enormous amount of money and they're giving up total control we have seen so think about it. We think we're seeing

the so-called stable coin war in hyperlquid. Now the hyperlquid had a bake off to say okay we we actually have 56 billion of USDC. We want to have our own uh stable coin. Yes. Is because of money because imagine $5 billion 4% of $5 billion is a lot of money is probably a couple hundred million um a year. But also, you know, Hyperliquid is a known KYC decentralized per exchange. What happens if Circle who is a private who is a private company says we kind of don't like this and we switch you off? So, I think that every large application that is accumulating funds, they should be in control and uh

and MetaMask who has been the innovator since the very beginning is leading the charge. And so this movement is about taking control of your own assets and your own liquidity, issuing your own stable coin as a result of being your own central bank. And this gives you the sovereignty and freedom and control over your own money. >> Absolutely. And now uh with protocols like MZ, others we have been a bit pioneer here hopefully is a competitive advantage for us. But you can do it abstracting completely away the issuance regulated part. You can do it only with code and and then what I say on the other side to the issuers is if you're a financial institution in if you're a bank in the past you were

also controlling your distribution network where you had branches now you're not controlling your distribution network anymore your distribution are financial applications so you need to make yourself uh uh developer friendly if you're not developer friendly you will die because nobody is going to use your asset, they will use other assets because that asset is commodity. >> Just the world we live in today. Luca, just last question, close us out. What what what do you say to those of the people who say, you know, M0 like who are they? Like where where do they come from? Kind of new on the scene and you know, what are some closing thoughts here as you just as you're approaching the stable coin landscape and you're looking at it?

Where where do you think we go from here? And yeah, generally close us out. I think we are as I told you before I I am convinced I was convinced when we founded M0 that we are at the very beginning of the most uh dramatic uh paradigmatic shift in money in financial intermediation in our lifetimes. So there is a lot of stuff to do and the there is a lot of room for successful companies to be built but you need to be serious and long-term oriented uh because because like you know these are like very fundamental big projects and people that think that okay circle and tether are the winners the rest is just a tail they don't understand that $300

billion of stable coin float is a ridiculously small number this number is going to 100x um So I to any entrepreneur who wants to build in the space I I suggest to spend time here because I don't think there is uh there is a more profitable place to spend time on and for anybody who wants to understand who wants to doesn't want to be an entrepreneur but wants to collaborate in building stuff they should definitely get in touch. M0 is growing uh is expanding the business. It is expanding the team and MZ is a big project right we raised $100 million of equity from some of the very best investors in the space from Poly Chain, Panta, Rubic Capital, Bank Capital, etc.

because this is a go big or go home endeavor. You need to build big big stuff. Uh so um it is a privilege to have the opportunity to do that. But we will stick around for a couple of decades more at least before before we really make a dent on the in the universe. >> Luca, thank you so much for joining me. It was an absolute pleasure. And uh trillions stable coins are going to trillions. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> Thanks for having me. Yeah. What?