SQD Co-Founder: Why We Need AI Needs Blockchain More Than Ever

Transcript

No humans required in between fully frictionless. This is kind of the vision we have and this is I think what it needs to like go to like this global scale of AI agents. How SQD and subsequent is kind of like this this onchain version of snowflake or could be what they have done for that world into this kind of newer decentralized AI world. I see data as a public utility. It should be kind of like owned by no one but kind of like governed by everyone.

Welcome back to the Rowup. We are your hosts. I'm Andy. I'm Robbie. And this is your home to learn from the biggest guest, the brightest minds at the tip of innovation. Our goal is to help spread the collective knowledge of everyone in our community. We are breaking crypto out of its echo chamber and taking it to the real world. Sit back, relax, and enjoy a quick word from some of our awesome partners who make this show possible. CryptoUX broken. AI can't trust it. Let Magic Newton set you free. It puts your onchain transactions on autopilot. Does all the work for you 24/7 so you can go do what you want. The vision of Magic Labs, the creators of embedded wallets used and backed by the best. See for

yourself. Simpler crypto UX, verifiable AI agents. Newton.xyz. [Music] Introducing Asset Runes, the future of decentralized finance. Stable coins natively on Bitcoin. Hedge against volatility. Diversify your portfolio. All directly from your Bitcoin wallet, secured by ZK Technology. This is asset runes available now exclusively on Starknet. All right, Marcel, welcome to the city, man. How's your uh how's your weekend been or your week been? The week has been great. Um I mean to be fair, I was a bit jet-lagged, but all of the

meetings um the alcohol of course and just like the great news we had this week kind of like kept me alive. And there's like so many cool people I know here cuz I go pretty frequently to New York. So, it's always good. It feels like second home by now. Nice. So, you're originally from Switzerland, which is actually one of the uh more popular crypto hubs. I'm I live in Switzerland. I'm originally from Germany. I'm I'm actually half Turkish, half German, but grew up near Munich and then spent a lot of time in Berlin and then had my first company in Berlin. Uh 2017 first like crypto cycle I went into and the regulatory framework was just like horrible. Um the bureaucracy horrible and taxes horrible. So when I

uh came to found Subquid, the first investor was a German guy who moved to Switzerland and he was like, "Look, I'm going to deploy a check, but like don't do it in Germany." So that's kind of how I went to Switzerland and now I'm there for 5 years. Love it. Yeah. And Switzerland is is um it's it's home to a lot of the foundations, right, that have kind of had to be exist there because of just having like the uh legal or the lack of legal clarity in the States, basically. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So specifically in Zoo where I live, it's called like Crypto Valley. There's one street uh and you just see like a lot of mailboxes and like all of the big foundations like Salana is there for instance. Yeah, it used to be like a very active developer community as well.

I think like Vitalik is the person who actually made Zoo kind of like crypto valley as far as I know. He did his ICO from Zuk with Bitcoin Swiss together and at least that's what I have in mind and since then it kind of like became a crypto hub but by by now it's mostly directors of foundations more like finance related people and there's a lot of polka dot people still are still still there but yeah it's not like new New York nowadays where like you go here there are a lot of builders there a lot of companies it's different. What's your thoughts about the crypto scene in Dubai?

I I I haven't been. Oh, you Okay. I've never been there. So, yeah. Okay. Um I think there are some good people. I mean, you can put everyone like into the same box, right? But there's a lot of like these influencers, Koss in Dubai. Personally, not the biggest fan. Again, not everyone is the same. They're always good. There always some bad make a lot of money there. But people go there because of like the legal arbitrage and because of the taxes and it's just a safe place to be if you're if you you know if you launch a token or if you're running a crypto business etc. I think launching a token from Dubai is actually illegal as far as I know. So you're not allowed like the entity is not allowed to be a UAE entity. So issuing a token I say as far as I know is not allowed but

in general like working with crypto assets or fully kind of I think legalized don't pay any tax. So yeah, a lot of people just go there um often people go there to cash out or um they just go there because you're close to the money, right? That's something you definitely for instance not have in Germany. In Germany like you can get like a preceeded check, maybe a seat round check, but when it comes to like let's say serious money, there's not much happening anymore. And in Dubai, I mean, we all know it. You meet the right person and you can get like a eight figure check within a week done. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean the the Middle East has is going to be deploying a lot more capital into blockchain and AI respectively as well as at the convergence of the two which ironically is where uh SQD is is operating. Let's let's understand the story about uh kind of how you how you guys uh came to found SQD but let's let's think about it from the product perspective. Yeah, I mean this is exactly uh what we're trying to solve eventually even prior to like it being called AI agents. We always thought about like a data base uh needs to be permissionless. It needs to be open not closed. There need like these data silos are not very scalable in a sense. um they're very hard to maintain and especially the data that the agents consume

is limited in a way where only the companies who actually built these AI models have access to the data and in our vision it's more like database should be accessible by an agent in a way that we think about it like okay let's go two steps back virtuals you launch a agent on virtuals right now and then you have your thing going on in the future. Our vision would be that you launch an agent and it comes pre-equipped with like a piece of software which is essentially we call it a portal and this piece of software gives you access to all of the data we have in SGD network and since it's fully digital there's no like credit cards

needed the agent could because most of the agents even have their own cryptocurrency themselves they could actually swap their token to our token lock the token consume all of the data they need no humans required in between fully frictionless. This is kind of the vision we have and this is I think what it needs to like go to like this global scale of AI agents. Yeah. And so one one uh aspect that you're describing here is around the data right around the training data for some models or for uh agents. Another uh big concept that I think uh blockchain and crypto is going to bring to the and is bringing is verifiability. Right? knowing that uh how different inputs were uh given to a

model, how a agent has been trained uh you know trying to have prevention from agents going rogue. Um but the one constant uh factor here and honestly you could even think about it as like a a consistent variable is the demand for compute uh has been increasingly uh going higher. uh it's accelerated past if you look at the energy grid it's accelerated past hospitals as about 3x I believe as of like the last couple of months in terms of the amount of power uh being used in data centers to fuel AI versus like a you know some of the world's largest hospitals. Um that is what I think that a lot of people are uh kind of like orienting around when

they're building in AI is like this is going to continue to uh increase this demand. So I'm I'm curious like how you think the demand for compute increasing has a like what consequences does that have on the data problem that you're trying to solve or or what what are like the second and third order effects of this of this consistent demand on the problem and the kind of like market that you're trying to solve. I think in general it's like it's scalability, right? It's like you need more access to more of everything. You need more compute. That means you need more easier and high performance access to data at an extreme lower cost. And that's like one of the things like if you operate your own data center, you need staff, right? You need um the physical capex

kind of expenditure to actually have a data center. I mean, you can go to a cloud as well, but you'll pay for that price as well. So the main goal is to get data to a point where it's almost virtually free. It has to get to a point to be virtually free. Um think about it like Spotify, right? Uh 20 years ago when I had like my first Eminem album, it was like I don't know 20 Deutsche Mark which is like I don't know 10 bucks whatever and you got like 10 15 songs. Nowadays you pay 15 bucks and you have access to every song on the planet. And still at the end uh the artists make their money right because there were new ways found to monetize it. there were new ways to build up this economy and if you look the Spotify movie on Netflix

again of course it's a movie or like it's a series but I still think a lot of the things which we've seen there are actually true like nobody believed in it until it happened and it's similar with data uh it has to get to the point where it's virtually free there's no free lunch in life so I don't believe in people like offering free services at one point like how is it getting paid like it h somebody has to pay for something. But so it's all about creating like an incentivized economy where people share like Uber, right? There's a sharing economy and everyone still makes money, but the end user has like a lot better experience. And with data, right now we're in a world where you usually go to like the big giants like Snowflake, data bricks of this

world and you pay tremendous amounts of money, tremendous amounts of money. And it's like it's in my opinion, it's the opposite of scalability. It's it's like blocking innovation in a way where people should have access to it. Like I see data as a public utility. It should be kind of like owned by no one but kind of like governed by everyone. And especially if you think about the hypers scale of AI agents and how you will have like billions if not trillions of AI agents in the future. It only works if the cost of data gets reduced drastically and so the accessibility is higher and that means more people can build greater stuff and can innovate more. Yeah.

Innovating finance global institutional and onchain deep liquidity to drive capital efficiency. Now maximize yields on institutionalgrade liquid staking with me. unlock trillion dollars of capital via F Bitcoin. All of this secured by Mantle's treasury of billions in stables and ETH capital pools. This entire ecosystem is coordinated by a vast network of seasoned VCs that are aiming to create the next generation of banking and financial technology. This is Mantle.

Introducing Summerfi, one of Defi's oldest and most battle tested platforms. Summerfy automates your exposure to DeFi's highest quality yield so you can sit back and enjoy this summer. Deposit stable coins at USDC or USDT and let Summerfi route your funds into optimized low-risk lending strategies. With over 100 million in instant liquidity and support for over 34 protocols across Ethereum, Arbitum, and more, you always stay in control. Choose from a wide range of curated strategies reviewed by independent risk experts all in just a few clicks. So why work hard for your yield when you can be lazy? Start earning now at summer.fi the home of the lazy summer protocol. So talk us through

the, you know, you mentioned some of these larger techno corporations and I think there's there's there's a arms race for AI right now obviously and it's being won by anthropic and by open AI and then there's this group of people that are if you think about AI as this abstract kind of super intelligence there's this group of people building in this intersection of like decentralized AI that are essentially trying to uh fight for a future where this super intelligence isn't owned by like the like the you know like the mag seven companies basically. Yes. So that's happening in in parallel and then why all this always has happening these large data companies over the last 10 20 years have had massive successes and so talk us through why like what Snowflake

is what their thesis was why they did well and then how SQD and subsequent kind of like this this onchain version of Snowflake or could be what they have done for that world into this kind of newer decentralized AI Um yeah I mean let's give a a good example for the listeners here. So think about it more of like hotel chains. So it like 200 years ago there was like a single hotel, right? Like somebody opened kind of like a a hotel. It wasn't even called a hotel but people could go there could pay some money and they could sleep there and eat. Yeah. That's like a single database like very centralized single database on your own

computer. That's where we were 30 40 years ago. Yeah. Single hotel. Well, then people were like, "Oh, well, let's open up a hotel chain, you know, logically." So, you actually have the same experience to for like with Hilton. You go to Hilton all across the globe and it's almost the same experience. And that's kind of like the data cloud. That's essentially what Snowflake made. It's like, hey, we're like single databases now. We're getting it into a cloud. And they're specifically have like this data lakehouse. A bit more complicated to explain, but it doesn't matter. It's went from single hotel hotel chain which yeah it is kind of scalable but it cannot grow very fast right there's a lot of effort still being done and then nowadays we have Airbnb

completely game changer so wherever you go on the planet you have a place to stay at different price points depending on the market goes from like very simple sleeping like Airbnbs actually like a very simple room up until oh like I need a very luxurious super penthouse Manhattan whatever 20 grand a night uh and there's something for everyone no frictions in between and the most important part is the humans basically again the users communicate directly almost peer-to-peer and this is where SQD network essentially is like we call it the first database network comes into mind so think about it single database data cloud and now it's like a global

data database. And that's again what I said earlier. It's it's owned by no one, but it's governed by everyone. So, it's like a huge network. We have over 3,000 kind of like small data centers, small like servers, worker nodes attached to it. And even if like half of them get turned off today, for whatever reason, the service still keeps operating. If you turn off like the big data centers, nothing works anymore. So, this is um essentially where we came from. So, it's a completely different way uh of thinking about like I really don't like vendor lockins at all. Every time we had to sign some kind of a deal where we're getting like locked into something for a certain period of time without even really knowing if we want to use that

service for this long. I think that's a very uh old-fashioned business model and it it just as I mentioned before it kind of like hinders the growth. It stalls growth because you cannot move freely. With Airbnb you can move freely. With SQD network, everyone in the future will be able to add data. Everyone will be able to consume data. And this data is like a public thing. It's it's for everyone. And that's really the key thing. All of the data in Snowflake is Snowflake's data essentially. Like they they own it like Google, right? Uh think about 23 and me. I don't know if you know 23 and me. Yeah. Um so I was actually one of the people who did a DNA test there because my dad Thank you, dad. Uh he forced me to do it when I was a bit younger. um well the data got all

sold right and it's the same thing I just don't believe in the future where especially now when we come back to this like super intelligence huge AI models I don't believe in a world where this power is kind of governed by a handful of people in advisory board or it that that just doesn't work and it seems very scary to me to be honest it's it's a huge security issue also so what one of the core things that I'd like to just uh press on that you mentioned is some of the livveness conversation. So blockchains are essentially databases with a distributed set of nodes uh that achieve consensus.

Uh doing this allows you to have verifiability guarantees etc. But one of the core properties is livveness. So when you're running these like high throughput applications so for example in SQD's case something like like pancake swap right these are dependent on livveness of the underlying infrastructure to provide the users a really quality experience right and so without these guarantees uh these are uh these applications would would you know suffer dramatically in traditional world you have these uh concepts of uh SLAs's service level agreements where you have like a specific a specific spec specification about the livveness guarantees, the uptime, these types of things when when it comes to uh SQD even

just more broadly like these database uh kind of agreements and livveness concerns, what is your what is your response if I if I'm to ask you how can you guarantee that your service is going to provide me with 100% uptime? Uh and what do I get if not like is that something that you guys run into? Like what is your answer to that? First of all, um you can go online. You can go to our dashboard and the network has 100% uptime since it launched day one. Never has been offline. Yes, nodes at times do go offline. Power of decentralization. Um often people ask me like oh like do we need something decentralized and why do you have something decentralized in general? And my main answer here is like you should never build something to just

make it decentralized for the sense of decentralizing something. No, you have to solve a problem and the problem we had in mind just the only logical way to solve it was to decentralize and essentially here of course big corporates they come to us like for instance we have like few bigger web two clients um which are just known to this SLA world of course and for these kind of clients we abstract a lot of the technology a lot of the crypto stuff kind of a way so yes we do sign an SLA with them we put our up times there.

Usually there's like a small margin of error for us. Um but up until today we never had a downtime yes on our services. So we just continue to believe in what we've built and that was also a reason because we have a lot of redundancy in the network. It's very very unlikely statistically speaking that from the 3,000 nodes we have right now and the network has been growing like crazy this year um that all of them would go down at once. Right. And this is kind of what would need to happen. Sure. It might cause let's say performance issues. If we only go down to like 10 nodes and then all of our clients request data at the same time, it could get slower, but it's very unlikely to happen. So, it's a statistical thing. Okay. It's more

mathematical and statistical. Yeah. So, how does the how does the business model of these database uh kind of like uh companies differ from in in like traditional worlds like when you're working with traditional clients versus like uh you know like like a DEX, a lending market, etc. Uh how do those business models differ and like what is the what is the usual way that uh like a company like SG would actually generate revenue consistently? Are are we looking at like monthly agreements for different uh services? um you know and and then I think this going to tie into like uh how this kind of comes into this broader idea that we're seeing right now in the space more than ever around trying to find uh profitable companies to invest

in. Um this is a really good question. So first of all a lot of the products we build on top of our network have similar traditional business models. There are SLAs's um there are subscription models right for instance we have SQD cloud you sign up you can actually calculate how much you need to store how much you need to host and then you basically get like a pricing there's an SLA attached to it and then you get what you pay for very simple very traditional uh then we have a tooling part the SDK that's open source free to use because of course we want people to try out our tools and this is for adoption I think it's very important that this part is always free and that's again very standard also in the web 2 world and then we have SQD

network right now which is our main focus this is where we are planning to get most of the revenues on chain as of today it's like we still call it like in the bootstrapping phase so the network itself does not like there's a fee switch and that fee switch is not turned on yet at the moment in order to get access to SQD data you lock SQD and this will always stay the same so the main thing is like we don't believe in paying for data in a in a volatile asset. It doesn't make any sense. We've seen it with other companies in the infrastructure space and their tokens and their products have desperately failed because it's first bad for accounting. Second, you don't know what you get. You don't know what you pay

for. So, our idea was we still want the token to be valuable, right? We still want people to use it and to because it has to be decentralized and permissionless. So the easiest way and the most smart way is like okay you need data you have the tokens you lock the tokens as long as you have tokens locked you can consume data the more tokens the more bandwidth think of it more like ISP like internet service provider um so if you want fast high-speed internet you have to lock a bit more tokens if you just want like basic internet here you go and essentially you take the data and once you don't need it anymore you unlock the tokens and then you're you didn't you basically paid nothing. Yeah, you paid with the opportunity cost of the token and its volatility of course,

but it's a onetime thing. You do it and then you move on. Um, at the same time like in the web two world, data is being charged heavily. The bandwidth is charged heavily. And again coming back to this idea of having it almost virtually free. We thought this is like the smartest way to make it almost virtually free. And then of course the network revenues, onchain revenues are super important for us. I mean our other products are doing pretty well. Um I think many people know it. We have over like 200 B2B clients, big projects, Pancake Swap, GMX, uh Shiva, many use it. Uh we're very proud of that. But at the same time, um the network also has to generate revenues in the future. And

we have this network fee switch. So the people who lock the tokens at one point we will turn on a fee switch. For instance, just some arbitrary number right now. Let's just say it's like 1% fee annual. So if you lock like a million tokens, 1% of those will go into the network as a fee. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that we're just going to keep seeing more and more iterations of that as a result of Trump uh coming into office with the new administration and then just other teams pushing the boundaries on what's possible as far as buybacks goes, as far as to uh tokconomics goes. Um, with regards to the actual network itself, uh, reminds me a lot of, uh, basically what like subgraphs have done with and the graph protocol. I'm curious like why why is

SQD any better than something like the graph? And how is it defensible to anything to another person coming in and just trying to attack this same market? I mean this is probably like a better question for like Dimmitri but I mean he's he's like the wizard but essentially um the graph was built in a different era like in in the crypto world stuff moves very fast and they were built for like the DeFi era so it's a different kind of uh speed they were specifically built for Ethereum lot less transactions slower the the world nowadays is like Salana kind of speed so and then they're very dependent on the RPC nodes which in general are very slow so building a subgraph has like a UX issue which a lot of our

clients don't like. Um that's why they transitioned from subg graphs. Then also the sync speed. So basically syncing the subgraph it takes a lot of time. We're speaking about like days versus minutes or seconds if you use SQD. And um those are like the one of the or like two of the main reasons clients come to us. It's they usually come at a point where what they have the current solution doesn't work anymore. So it's very unlikely that somebody has a a working infrastructure and just says, "Oh, I'll migrate to somebody to to something else." No, this is never those are not like how our sales cycles work. It's like people come to us at the point where the the problem is there. It's like, "Oh like this doesn't work

anymore. It's slow. It it's it's annoying and then they look for new solutions and then we have a very organic inflow of clients." So we never really like of course we have a small BD team, but we don't do heavy outreach. We've never done that. Like just clients come because they like the tool and it's like word of mouth that kind of spreads it over time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. So um and one one more thing to say like again the graph are like pioneers in the space. Right. Right. Uh so they actually like they they played a crucial role. Yes. And um but they also are lacking for instance like good Salana data. They just can't deliver it. No substrate data as well like bit tensor and stuff they don't have it. So, so there's there's there's that market segment that's happening,

right? Where it's like competitive within the entire space for like this new, you know, multi-chain environment, right? You know, hundreds of chains. Now, uh power law is definitely going to play a part here where and it already is where a lot of the value is just going to kind of uh ex uh reside on one, two, five, 10 chains rather than hundreds likely. But I also think that there's going to be hundreds and hundreds of chains that will exist for specific reasons. Um, so that's one thing. The other massive market that is probably the much larger opportunity here is all of the people coming into the space from uh the institutional world and they want data because they need to make educated decisions about the market and they have

their usual Bloomberg terminal. They have uh tons of just traditional data providers and the quality that they're used to uh is much more sophisticated and has been around much longer than the crypto market data. Yeah. So, how are you thinking about the opportunity for that kind of market segment? Like what is the opportunity there in your conversations with speaking to these capital allocators, managers? What is it that they actually want from data for this industry? Um first of all I think it's kind of like a new gold rush which is happening right now. A lot of data companies are trying to jump on this let's call like a small hype. Uh like rwas I mean people are throwing all

sorts of number around like 30 trillion is coming on chain whatever. Uh I was here at like the battle fin conference this week and we just noticed that a lot of the big asset managers are like very very interested in bringing their assets on chain. It seems to be the future and of course they're very data hungry and the willingness to pay. So coming back a bit more about like subgraphs and like web three the willingness to pay from a lot of the developer companies a lot of the labs and foundations is nowhere near the willingness to pay of a multi-billion asset manager company.

There's a lot more to manage a lot more potential. But what do they want though? So what do they want? like what are they like in when you speak to them what data are like are they looking for data to make decisions on investing on on what like like what like yeah what there two things so depending on the size of the asset manager uh the really big ones I think they're more in like risk mitigation kind of side of the data and then there's smaller trading companies which have a lot more let's say they're more risk averse they're more in like leveraging stuff so they're more looking out for alpha right so and And with with Alpha, I mean like going beyond like the top 10 coins. Okay. Because most of the big asset managers, like let's face it,

just like they will not trade some kind of meme coin on Salana, right? Of course not. But smaller firms will, right? Yes. Exactly. Maybe not memes, but they're going to try to find some sort of like edge in the market somehow. Yes. But like what data do they want? It's like like is it transaction volume? Like there's like rev, you know, like Blockworks has a ton of great data around like rev and transactions, addresses. there's like there's ton of providers out there but yeah is there something specific that they that you're seeing like these alpha seekers if I would call the specific thing what we're focusing on I would give a lot of information now to competitors um but we're trying to work like hand in hand we actually have like two big asset managers now like multi-billion companies uh which are working with us

hand in hand we're crafting this new product oceanream around the information the the customers give us so what is ocean stream oceanream is kind kind of like a Bloomberg terminal for web 3. Um I don't like it's not exactly going to be a Bloomberg terminal, but it's supposed to because like it's it's built on top of SGD network. We have the fastest data and especially we have all the data so we can really like we really dive deep into the ocean like the last trenches, the last depths of liquidity of traders. we see it and we have these insights in real time and with this data we essentially build like dashboard kind of solution um for the clients and depending on which kind of client so

we're focusing as I mentioned on two products like two subcategories one is more like alpha driven which is probably maybe even a bit more like consumerf facing for like let's say like somebody who's just like a day trader kind of guy who doesn't have the liabilities of like a big fund and at the same time like more on the risk mitigation side for like the biggest like to bigger asset managers and we're talking about like the the latency right especially the latency and I don't want to go into too many more details now that's really where we have a huge competitive edge to anything else in the web three space at the moment understood another active institutional angle here is around these treasury vehicles that have recently been coming out around Bitcoin primarily uh but Christianer put out a post a couple days back around SQD and trying

to build a treasury vehicle for SQD um what's the story behind working with Christian and uh what is this uh treasury vehicle aiming to achieve other than uh just you know accumulating SQD right? Yeah, I mean good question. So I met Christian the first time round about in November 24. Uh one of his partners uh who invested into Snowflake. He read a thesis blog from M31 Capital and they actually compared us to Snowflake says like a decentralized Snowflake and they did like a Bill Aman kind of style activist blog post about us and he just like suddenly like read it and uh he noticed that we were connected in the network. So he reached out to me and

that's how I met Christian. And then Christian of course he did like his due diligence process. We at that point the token was at all-time low but customers revenues were like growing drastically and we openly spoken. He actually just saw like the opportunity and said look there's like an undervalued asset in his opinion. Um there's a great team, great builders, great product but they have to learn a bit more on the marketing side. they have to you know position their brand brand awareness and that's where he came in and he he thinks he can help and since then I mean I think we have been pretty much delivering very well uh we started like growing the brand to a bigger audience now we're like we're trying to abstract stuff we're trying to explain it more and more easy and what

was the second part of the question um around the details with the uh strategy vehicle yeah exactly or the treasury vehicle yes so it it's all about institutionalizing Right. I mean, we saw it with like Sailor, right? They're not like in crypto the money flows very fast and also funds, if you can even call them funds at sometimes, it's like they're in and out, right? Like vestings are short compared to traditional assets. Tokens get flipped very very often. So, he was always like a big fan of like these long hold kind of vehicles. So, something that just acquires and holds. And at the same time there's a lot of investors especially still like in Europe who they don't touch any crypto assets of course. Yeah.

It's like it's too far away for them. Like maybe they own a bit of Bitcoin as a speculative asset but they're very traditional. So it's opening up a new market. It has a very positive effect on the token itself because these like especially his vehicle it's just meant to acquire SQD and then stake SQD. So it's not only about like buying tokens, it's actually about providing a value to the network because the token stake and he has to run nodes in order to stake these tokens. So the network grows. At the same time, it opens up new possibilities for other investors who wouldn't be able to invest in this kind of asset. And I mean that's essentially it. And there's a big trend going on right now. I mean let's face it, I I

hear like over 100 uh like treasury companies are being founded left and right. uh but mostly for the big cap tokens but like Christian's point of view he was actually through like launching a public vehicle or like a treasury vehicle for like midcap tokens where uh they're not there's not much going on and and the and the liquidity isn't as deep as with large cap tokens yet uh these vehicles and treasury companies actually have a tremendous impact or could have a tremendous impact on liquidity also on on the security of a network. So, it's like a a win-winwin situation for everyone. It opens the market for people who couldn't acquire the asset. Uh, it scales the network at the same time. And of course, it kind of

like takes a part of the circulating supply and puts it into let's just say into a treasury that has like a value ad for the network. And this is something that we personally like I personally think is very very interesting. It's a it's a very good dynamic and it kind of also blends into like our next steps. So we're like trying to institutionalize at the moment. I think many people are probably aware of that right now. We just launched like this product this week. We have another big big product launch coming up on the Solana side. Um in my opinion it's going to be a complete gamecher. And then of course our focus is revenues. I mean we are essentially a B2B company. Um, and her goal is to grow the revenues to uh

there's actually another search product coming later this year. And now with like more exchanges, more liquidity being added to the token and the network, um, we're just in a in a growth phase at the moment. So, I think we're we're very interested to also then bring these revenues on chain. So, we're going to um introduce a new tokconomics design very soon. It's going to be like a gradual roll out. So, these are the things to expect uh at SQD probably till the end of this year. Marcelo, I appreciate you coming, man. Thank you.