Is Solana undervalued compared with Ethereum?

Transcript

GM good morning welcome to the milk Road show The Daily crypto show that is like a caffeine boost for your brain but without the Jitters I'm your host KY readhead filling in for Jay who is out sick he's got a bug today so I'm jumping in to sit here with Michael Nat founder of the defi report a leading newsletter in the crypto industry on today's show we'll be discussing Michael's two recent reports on one where are we in the cycle and two salon's valuation verse eth uh we'll dive into some different questions including what's driving the narrative behind Sal's growth currently what up upcoming Catalyst could wake up ethereum this cycle uh and has the eth BTC ratio bottomed has Bitcoin dominance bottomed uh have we topped in the cycle all these things we're going to be answering

before we get into that a couple things we got to cover one uh we're doing a pro AMA this week so you want to take a second to address all the milk Road pros and all your questions we've got so many new Pro subscribers over the last couple weeks it's been really heaing up and we know you guys have questions but we've got some answers so this Wednesday the 27th at 12 or sorry 11: a.m. EST we're hosting an exclusive AMA just for you so there's a link in the show notes below you can hit us with your toughest questions uh inside Discord just fill out that form and we will answer them for you um if you're not yet Pro come on what are you waiting for let's go pro already we want to answer your questions so check out the link in the

descriptions below all right before we get the episode let's take a quick second just to hear from our sponsors that make this show possible meanwhile is the world's first licensed and regulated life insurance company built for the the Bitcoin economy they do everything in BTC you pay in BTC they pay claims to your family in BTC you take out policy loans entirely in BTC when you need liquidity protect your family from life's uncertainty and a broken Financial system build intergenerational Bitcoin wealth while the cost of living skyrockets in dollar terms plus get all the tax and legal benefits of life insurance now in Bitcoin visit milroad docomo the wait list and get early access to the world's first Bitcoin life

insurance whether you're bullish or bearish on micro strategy T-Rex ETFs are your gateway to Dynamic marketpl get exclusive access to leverag exposures with the first two time short or two times long ETFs designed specifically for micro strategy stock position yourself with Precision with T-Rex you gain access to powerful tools for sophisticated investors [Music] all right Michael we're back we're ready to talk here today uh you were on the episode or on the podcast what was it earlier this year I think pre-milk Road branding actually uh in the web Theory

Academy days so so welcome back first of all pumped to have you here thanks Kyle always good to chat with you man absolutely look um I love reading your research it's very aligned with um with milro Pro and a lot of the research that we talk about um but you have some of the best reports some of the best onchain analysis and just overall analysis I think in crypto uh and so um we want to pick your brain and I think we'll start things off sort of open Concepts here and a little bit Broad and just say you know where do you think we are in the cycle currently we've obviously had a crazy run over the last couple weeks here with after Trump getting elected um maybe things are getting a little bit hyped a little bit crazy at the moment we're getting close

to 100K maybe we're in a bit of a pullback right now at least in Bitcoin uh what's your take on where we are in the cycle and and overall with the markets yeah uh um that's the million-dollar question that is the million dollar question I think um there's a lot there's a lot to unpack here I mean we just made a pretty big move for for Bitcoin jumping from you know mid 60s or so up to just barely like up to 99k where we haven't kissed 100K just yet but but we're getting close so pretty big move uh I would say over a pretty short period of time kind of reminds me of Hugh for 2020 it does sort of feel like that's kind of where where we're at we had a similar pretty big move in Bitcoin Bitcoin tends to

sort of lead uh the these really kind of bull market phases I think we're in that sort of early State actually we'll call it middle of the cycle since you know the bull run to me really started like at the beginning of 203 but we haven't reached that sort of like extreme pitch of it just yet to me that is to come um we can go through there are some signs out there that the market is heating up and we look at onchan data we look at a lot of sentiment related data so we can go through some of that but I think you know certainly some signs that the market is heating up but I don't see like this extreme greed out there I see actually like more people like calling the top which people that

were around like you know last cycle like or 17 like nobody was calling the the top I mean if you call the top people were screaming at you and like telling you you an idiot so everyone was talking about the super ccle so like I the the vibe out there yes it does feel a little extreme you got pumped up fun you got some weird stuff happening but like I don't see the extreme greed or the super cycle discussion any of that just yet so it can definitely get a lot weirder if you're around last cycle then you know it can get really weird I mean if you look on pumped up fun it is already very weird but it's interesting it does really feel like 2020 you know Q4 2020 right now um what I have up on the chart right now is just bitcoin's

price um chart and you can see October November December they were just massive months it actually continued into January February and March um but what's interesting is even in 2020 allcoin season really didn't start until and like the craziness didn't start probably until more like January um if I was to flip over to eth which I guess I could do I just don't think it's set up right now but let's just look at it actually um East like big moment here if you look was really in January that's what it had its massive run and it went from like you know $700 all the way to almost you know 42 $4,300 right that started in January and most of the the sort of like um smaller tokens that's what happened last cycle as well um so Bitcoin kind of ran on its own and people I think kind

of forget that uh and so I agree there's still lots of room left at least in in the rest of the market um and if we compare back to last cycle you put this in your report which I thought was quite interesting why don't you share this chart this is um YouTube views yeah YouTube views I think like there's a number of different sentiment um metrics that I'm looking at I think this one's pretty interesting this gives you an idea of like retail out there and it's looking at this is from Ben Cohen so shout out to Ben Ben Cohen um you know it's looking at almost all the top you know YouTube channels out there and we're at like you know 50% or so of kind of where we got to in terms of like the number of views on these popular channels so to me like this is that

chart I believe will will peek up again and that will come like you said after we sort of get this repricing I think it happens again in January there's a reason that it happened in January last last cycle I think a lot of Institutions a lot of like larger money managers they're going into into year end right now they're trying to process what just happened with Trump being elected with potentially new regulation like what's happening like they don't just like deploy all their Capital like right away and so I think there's a reason it happened in January last cycle I think there's a reason it's going to happen again probably in 25 and yeah I'm expecting um you know more new users I still think we're mostly like crypto natives like in the market right now um

we're seeing signs certainly of of new users coming in but we'll know when this chart starts to to peek up a little bit more yeah we're not even as high as we were back when the be Bitcoin ETFs got approved back in in you know what was that January February kind of thing uh and so there's still a lot of room to go I will say like just internally um for milk Road our metrics have skyrocketed since Trump took over just the last like not even three weeks or whatever it's been um our Pro subscribers are now like tripling quadrupling on a daily basis from what they were previously our YouTube views are are kicking up and our podcast views so um we're starting to see things really start to pick up but it still feels a little bit early days um we also run a marketing agency that

works with many media companies in crypto and we saw this last cycle as well um the views and these things are actually a really good metric to tell you uh like where the bull market's at because um retail comes in and what do they do they start subscribing to podcast subscribing to newsletters they start buying tools Etc and when you start to see them actually you know getting their credit cards out and buying things that's a sign like hey they're back and they're actually coming now uh and so that's definitely different than what we saw earlier this year so I think that is a a pretty good indicator but I think there's still a lot more room for a lot of new retail to come in and as you said institutions what's your thoughts around just like maybe macro you don't have to go in in

in depth here but it feels to me like a lot of this price action has nothing to do with macro it's mainly just because crypto's going to be legal in the US because Trump um but there's still like rates are still high QE hasn't really started at all so any take around that as well yeah so um it's interesting to hear your perspective on you know it's nicely you have a media presence and you can kind of see these things I'm seeing this on the defi report as well and things things are definitely picking up um on on the macro stuff like I'm looking at a number different data points there like I like to really combine like a deep understanding of what's happening with macro with with sort of onchain data fundamental analysis in crypto and you know I think the economy is sort of in this somewhat

of a gold locks state right now I shared some of this in the report that we put out the thing that gives me a little pause is like the dollar is is increasing and the the 10e so I think the market is trying to like understand are we potentially going into like more inflation uh or is this just sort of like Trump's coming in we are expecting we're sort of repricing like just more growth and more GDP growth and so rates have to have to go up for that that's that's kind of the question my base case is that inflation is not a huge concern uh to me right now I'm looking at oil prices and like you know there's not uh especially if Trump comes in and like unleashes a lot of Supply in the US I just don't see oil like getting really

really overheated that's really where what's going to drive a lot of inflation fed has to hike that that kills risk assets um but like everything else that I look at in terms of like Global liquidity indicators just what's happening with like sort of fed and what they're signaling I think they're probably gonna cut again um I think they're going to have to um you know with Trump coming in all the various policies that that he's going to implement it I don't see any like nothing's making me super nervous out there of course things can happen um but to me the one thing to look at is the dollar and the dollar strengthening at the same time that crypto is rallying that is a little bit of a idiosyncratic action there yeah a little dicey I

remember saying when we were right here in in September we kind of hit that bottom I was like okay we're going to break through this is the next phase of the bull market and then it just went the complete opposite way I was like oh okay but then crypto went up with it and I was like well this is very weird what's going on here so that is the one thing to watch I think again that's just pricing in Trump and people are excited about the US and they're going to be a dominant player again and etc etc but we'll see what happens um it's right at that kind of key top area so hopefully it comes down from there but um I don't know it's anyone's guess on what happens I think um in your report what was really nice and we use a very similar

metric and we've had a few people on over the last like two weeks that we're talking about this which was um mvrv although you break it down a little bit differently you look at long-term versus shortterm um which is just a great idea to see like how we hit the top and I think you know Bitcoin hasn't 100K yet so to me it feels too premature to even be asking this question but I like you said I've seen it on Twitter there are people trying to say you know are we at the top already should we be taking profits um what is your what is your mvrv stat show yeah I think um right there are signs like you do see some stuff on Twitter and you see stuff in the sentiment you see some things that look like like I saw like um the

president of El Salvador like like posting like his games on Twitter like that looks like sort of toppy to me so I can see why people are sort of calling some of this out but then you go on chain and you kind of look at things and I think the mvrv is always a nice indicator it's essentially telling you like what are the profits that like the average holders are sitting on out there and and with Bitcoin like long-term holders tend to to sit on gains um they they look to get like multiples right so if you're sitting on 200% 250% gains which is really where we're at right now um that to me is not like a cycle Peak you know in in the last cycle the um the mbrb for long-term holders got up to 11.4 we're at like 3.9 um

that's on that was on the zcore on the we're actually looking at the regular mvrv so that peaked out at about four last cycle we're at like three uh we're at like two .6 right now so it it's sort of getting back to where we were in in March you know when the Bitcoin ETF had just come out so that just looks to me like there's there's some room to run now we're looking at short-term mvrv um you know bitcoin's basically at all-time highs so everybody is in profit right now uh even the short-term holders this is at um a level of I think it's at 1.3 right now it peaked out at 1.8 so short-term holders are coming in they're sort of chasing the market and last cycle they were sitting on about 80% gains when the M when when the cycle

peaked right now they're sitting on on average about 30% gains so again I don't think you know this is a metric that sort of offsets some of the sort of greed stuff that that you're seeing uh on Twitter maybe yeah I agree sounds like and feels like there's still plenty of room to run however what do you think about Bitcoin dominance so this what chart I think as surprise some people some people were kind of calling this but um I I think a lot of people have called the top for Bitcoin dominance uh which by the way for those that don't know what that is that's just taking the Bitcoin market cap comparing it versus the rest of the market cap um usually it Peaks out at some point usually it's around like 12 months left in the uh in the bull market it Peaks out then it

heads down and that's when you get your proper alt season we again have not had that yet so even though it's like exciting and everything's up and things are going crazy we technically don't have like a real altcoin season yet um Bitcoin dominance has not topped although maybe it has now I don't know do your thoughts on on bitcoin dominance do you see a top here at all or maybe you look at ebtc instead I'm not sure what you look at or what you think about here yeah I think we're getting close um and I think we're at where what is the percentage we're at right now 58.7% the highest we went was 61.5 yeah so we are like getting close to that Peak I think you know we're pro I think it probably Peaks out after Bitcoin hopefully pierces through the

100K Mark sometime here between now and the end of the year so I'm looking looking for that like next move for Bitcoin to go through 100 and that will be sort of the peak for for Bitcoin and then going into next year um you know I think a lot of people are going to start to look at the eth ETFs and like you know one one thing that's interesting to me is like eth got to 0.008 BTC uh twice in the last cycle and if it was at 08 BTC at 96 97k BTC that puts eth at 7.7k per eth right so that's like where it kind of like could be um if you think it's going to go back to that similar

sort of pricing um so I just think eth has a big move like eth is going to make a big move and um just the more I see like the the bearish sentiment out there the more bullish I am on E it just feels like nobody owns eth So yeah so this chart I'm just like wait I think it's going to bottom before year end when Bitcoin makes that final like push through 100k you see a wealth effect with Bitcoin that tends to sort of lead to this rotation um and then that's when like your neighbor is like asking you about like which meme coin to buy and things like that like I think I don't think we're quite quite there just yet I I think when Bitcoin gets to 100K there is that psychological aspect for an

investor to go what's my risk reward here like should I really buy Bitcoin at 100K or have I missed it you know which always happens this is what happens every time and at that point when if eth's sitting there at like a what is it 300 million or 400 or sorry billion market cap you're like okay well that thing you could make it to a trillion right bitcoin's already at two or three trillion whatever uh and so it seems much easier and then of course that happens all the way down uh and so I could see it once Bitcoin hits that 100K Mark um but uh yeah when that happens I don't know like we still like I said rates are still high QE still not started generally that coincides with the bottoming of eth BTC or the top of Bitcoin dominance and allcoin season

starting we kind of don't have any of that um I want to get into comparing soul and eth but let's let's stick on eth for a second here because this is the one that everyone I know is asking about and it's just like what's going on this thing's like a rock it doesn't move it's had a couple little pumps here but like Salon has already reached alltime highs Bitcoin he's smashing alltime highs close to 100K what do you think's going on with eth anything in particular um yeah I mean I think I think honestly this has all like been pretty healthy for for eth I think um you know what we've seen is like basically execution on the road map in my view of like basically they're doing what they said they were going to do they're scaling through l2s we're seeing more users more

like fundamentals like moving to L2 we had this protocol upgrade you know in March EIP 4844 lowered fees and so like you basically opened up a glut of new block space and we're we're still we haven't reached like that sort of like new phase of new users coming in and so it just kind of looks like e fundamentals have sort of disappeared because like fees you know they're coming back a little bit now but fees dropped off a cliff um and it just kind of and all of that was happening while salana was was ripping and adding new users and you know Phantom's I think the number one you know utility app all a sudden out there so like you have that happening to me it's a bit of a head fake of like the fundamentals actually

don't match like what's actually happening there um and so and then you know price action like price moves first in crypto this is like a unique thing in in crypto like fundamentals come after the price moves the narrative comes after the price mooves so like the the fact that eth hasn't really rallied yet the narrative becomes like there's something wrong here um I just don't think there's actually something wrong here I think it's more the price just needs to move the price will move and then all of a sudden you start to see announcements happening like there are lots of good things happening with within the ecosystem you know I'm looking for potentially like Robin Hood to announce they're building an L2 or something like I know there's there's

Wall Street firms out there that are looking at what coinbase is doing within the ethereum ecosystem and like that's a template for somebody else to do the same thing you know the price starts to move you start to see an announcement like this all of the sudden the whole narrative flips so just keep an eye out there it doesn't mean it's GNA happen but I just think that gets interesting and then all of a sudden the narrative flips to oh so long just meme coins look this is Wall Street chain over here it's a l of just meme coins and like now all of a sudden the Market's thinking differently so keep an eye on that I don't feel I don't have like really strong conviction on that but it's definitely possible and like what you just laid out with like what typically happens with the Bitcoin moves first you

have the rotation it sounds just so simple and like easy but like I just think the institutions are going to do the same exact thing they're looking at Bitcoin they're going to be like how many more multiples can Bitcoin go why don't we go into the EF it's it only has about like it's like 1.5% of of bitcoin's ETF flows that makes no sense um you know eth is valued around 22% of Bitcoin um I think those that Gap is going to close big time on the ETF and we should see price action on ethereum as that plays out so yeah I couldn't agree more and if you think back to last cycle again what happened in November December before eth started pumping it was the eth is the eth death party so for those that don't know there

was I think it was a Twitter space or something or maybe it Clubhouse back then I don't know but a bunch of bitcoiners had this like eth's dead party and that marked the very bottom and come January eth just went through the roof so it was like when the sentiment got as bad as it could possibly be for eth um it just kind of took off and just dominated and I could see the same thing happening here this time around it just it feels like we've said the exact same setup as four years ago which is wild um although there was one caveat this time which is salana exists and last cycle that didn't exist and so last cycle there wasn't an ALT chain that was like just kicking ass and doing it for the last two years uh and so like it kind of felt like it was

Bitcoin only but this cycle it's not Bitcoin only because there's salana in all its memec coins and so that's the thing that makes people go oh maybe eth actually is dead this time or not going to catch up now I completely disagree I agree with you that like in terms of fundamentals eth is just absolutely crushing it they've created all this new block space which is huge they have you know so many l2s companies that are building on their Sony and I also think Robin Hood will probably launch one maybe PayPal and and probably many more Deutsche Bank just launched an L2 like come on this is actually crazy um but let's compare Let's Talk About Soul e what is your um well actually I will explain your take first because your report that you put out uh was it last week or earlier I think it was on Friday

which is quite interesting which was just looking at the discount of Soul versus eth which is currently at about 70% discount to ethereum and what's interesting is two years ago almost you wrote that the discount was like what was it like 98% or something Soul was like eight bucks and you're like this doesn't make any sense Soul's got to catch up at Pro we also wrote a report saying the same thing and then I think earlier this year you did another one you said uh Solana's has like an 84% discount to ethereum and by the way the way we're getting these discounts is basically just looking at the market cap of salana versus e and that's how much less it's worth and so um it went from 84% back in I think it was July you said now we're sitting at 70% and so the

question once again is is soul undervalued versus eth I would love for you to just walk us through kind of how you think through that and give me your takes there yeah so um exactly big move has already played out here in terms of repricing of Soul relative to eth and so what I'm trying to do you know here and especially with this report is just sort of like draw a line in the sand of like okay imag just imagine the cycle starting today and let's look at the fundamentals of ethereum versus salana and make a determination on if we think it's still underpriced relative to eth and I kind of just went through we we when I look at these uh comparisons I'm using like a combination of ethereum plus the l2s um but then I'm sort of just comparing back to eth versus soul I

think that confuses people a little bit the reason we do this is that um the l2s in my view are creating like new demand for for eth the asset and also driving like new demand for settlement fees down to eth um validators and stakers so I'm including the l2s in the sort of comp analysis and then just comparing you know basically eth to soul and you know looking back to q q um in July when we when we looked at this when it was a I think it was an 83 84% discount at that time um you know when you looked at the fees salana was about 27% during Q2 versus uh versus ethereum that has closed to now it's 49% over the

last 90 days when we just looked at this so another like sort of big move there just in terms of fees that means there's just more users there's just more activity happening salana I will say just to caveat those numbers I'm only looking at transaction fees there so if we included me that number uh changes to to where like today salana is basically at par with ethereum in terms of fees um if you just look at the last month the last two months the reason for that is there's like twice as much me coming off of salana than there is ethereum so if you want to look at with me they're actually like you know basically neck and neck uh right now you know we can

talk about that maybe there's probably a separate discussion but um so that's that's fees if we look at like Dex volumes I think was the next chart um back in Q2 uh salana was doing about 36% of ethereum plus the l2's Dex volumes today when we look at the last 90 days that's 57% so again salana closing the Gap here um moving on to like stable coin volumes this or stable coin supplies here um salana still has a very like limited amount of Supply as you can see in this chart compared to Ethan the l2s kind of interesting because salana has high volumes there just isn't a ton of like value being

sort of stored on salana so this this has made a small move it was three and a half% of ethereum in the l2s back in in in Q2 that has moved up to 4.1% so not not a lot happening in terms of the supply of stable coins for context of those that are are are listening not watching uh eth is what 110 billion or close to 110 billion of of stable coin Supply in salana I mean I can't even see this number here but it's probably like three four five it's around four yeah it's it's it's pretty small today and what's interesting is like you you start to look at that and actually like if you look at base and arbitrum they're like on at par with salana in terms of stable

coin Supply so that gets kind of that gets interesting and then you start to you know if you want to take this analysis a step further look at like some of those valuations the l2s which we won't get to in this this discussion but um looking at moving on to stable coin volumes here um this was kind of interesting so back in Q2 salana did like 4.7 trillion in stable coin volume it's not on this most of that's not on this chart we just looking at June through through November here um which was like twice as much stable coin volume as ethereum did during Q2 that this number has dropped off a cliff for salana so they did um significantly less volume to where it's about

30% of ethereum in the l2s which did about 3.1 trillion dur during the last 90 days so you know why is this dropping off like that for salana I think there was just tons of algorithms Bots um wash Trading things like that that sort of got cleaned up over the last 90 days or so but it still gives you there 30% is still pretty high what's also interesting there is Artemis has some pretty good data on like peer-to-peer versus like what's happening with just stable coins on dex's in in centralized exchanges and only about 6% of sana's sort of volumes for stable coins is coming from peerto peer uh so it's mostly this is mostly meme coins

speculation trading on salana ethereum is closer to 30% so it's got a little bit more peer-to-peer transactions maybe a little more just like pure utility of these of these stable coins than salana has which is tvl yeah one more here rapid fire with the data so um tvl is so if we look at tvl um salana has where do we where do we move here um so it was 6.3% in Q2 that has jumped up to 12.3% so similar to like stablecoin Supply not a ton of value being stored on on saana but the I would say the capital

efficiency of the network is better than eth where like you basically have what what is stored there it's moving around like the velocity of the money on there is moving faster than ethereum but just not a ton of of value stored there um we also looked at like flows like are there flows is is is like salana grabbing uh TBL from eth and the l2s very small amount it was about 2% over the last 90 days um so I don't know how you interpret all this I sort of looked at all this and I said this feels about right yes like there's still like salana sort of still seems to be growing a little bit on the on the fee side uh on Dex volumes it's just pure speculation this is just like meme coin Mania on

salana and so like you know if I was seeing like okay there's all these other use cases being built and like all this other fundamental activity I might think slightly different differently about it but to me that valuation feels like it's made the big move you know going forward I think is somewhat of a toss up here but I'm curious I'm actually curious your thoughts on it yeah I agree I think Soul probably still outperforms this cycle um but probably not back end like when we get to the the bare market so just because it's it's still a smaller asset by you know a pretty large margin um what worries me so like I I'm still very bullish eth even though it hasn't had his big move I think that's one of the reasons why I think it does so well

is because it's got to catch up and and I think it will I think institutions as they come in like you said you think they will um I think they're going to come in and there's the the opportunity to buy them through the ETF which Lana doesn't have yet and so I think we will get some big bids there and eth will play catchup um what worries me on the salana side is I see all the metrics are increasing and the fee revenues blah blah blah I don't think that l1s are necessarily valued based off fees um it's not like a traditional company so I take that with a grain of salt I just worry that 90% of all the basically activity on salana is memec coins and as much as I and this is why I think Soul still outperforms I don't think mem

coins stop I think they continue to get crazier uh throughout this cycle and so I think probably as a result of that the narrative continues uh until it doesn't which at some point it will stop and then that worries me but I don't know when that is is that in one month is that in three months that in six months that in 12 months like I honestly don't really know there are big unlocks coming for soul uh in q1 is that really going to matter though it's hard to say um so it's for me I'm just I'm bullish on both I hold them both I'm actually about even on both in terms of my portfolio personally uh and so like I don't know it um yeah I don't really have a strong conviction on either side I just think both of them have a lot of room to grow

over the next year which is makes me happy I guess yeah I think that makes I think that makes a ton of sense what you just laid out there where maybe it does that's sort of where I'm coming in maybe it does slightly outperform um you know my targets I guess have always been and I haven't come off this is like 10 trillion or so for the total crypto market cap and then you sort of back down and if you don't believe it's 10 trillion you can go to nine but you can you can essentially back into where you think Bitcoin and eth are going to get to if you say okay well maybe Bitcoin dominance is usually around 40% at the top you know if it's 10 trillion the k 4 trillion it's like 200k BTC and then you can say okay well what percentage of eth

you know where does it usually get to where could that fall if it's 35% it gets you to like almost 12K eth um and then you look at salana and you're like okay well Salon is about 30% of eth today is it gonna inch up slightly and it maybe goes to 35% you can sort of back into that and that gets you to to like a thousand Soul right so it's still if if it goes to 35% and we do get close to that 10 trillion that's how you get to like you know a 4X or so from from these levels and then the question is like does Salon meme coins just like totally destroy eth and like to Salon of defi just you know just radio just wildly outperform Unis Swap and things things like that um that's kind of how I'm thinking thinking of it's sort of a

simple way to do it but it tends to sort of tends to work pretty well crypto just human behavior just repeats in crypto and I think that's the thing you should always kind of kind of fall back on do you think so obviously the beam coin crazy right now in salana has been beneficial to salana I mean it's bringing a ton of users uh and obviously a lot of fee Revenue Etc and so this is great and it's kind of boot starting like a bootstrapping story like this network right like D5 is getting a lot more action than it normally would radium and the dexes are getting a lot more action than it normally would and so like it's kind of stress testing it's as you said Phantom is kind of the number one I think app in all the us right now at least for utility apps yeah

um but do you think there's a negative side to this I think you wrote in one of your reports that you're hearing or seeing that institutions might be a little bit wary to invest or build on salana because of the mcoin stuff um can you kind of dive into that take just a little bit yeah I mean I'm hearing some rumors that like you know perception is reality right so like you know perception is this is just a memec coin casino over on salana um there isn't like as much sort of like real institutional activity Black Rock has a you know the bidle fund on ethereum um you have like firms like like eny that are building on ethereum right you don't really see this on salana just yet there's some there's some sort of green shoots of this but you do worry a little bit that that this

becomes the perception and then you don't get these announcements you don't see as much sort of serious Builders like going to salana it's really more the consumer app uh consumer chain you know maybe that's how it plays out you know and that's that's how the in the future of Finance is ethereum um I still think so lot there'll be massive market for this sort of like consumer based L1 um in ethereum maybe that's where D5 actually plays out on on ethereum or serious professional defi um we'll see we'll see but I do think narratives matter perception definitely matters and um you know the fact that you I think because ethereum has the ETF that is an advantage uh it just it just is an advantage for this cycle so as we wrap up we're just going

to throw one more question at you and put you on the hot seat here which is if you were allocating today and you could say this maybe personally uh you know we've talked about where we think we're at in the cycle maybe Bitcoin is topped maybe not if not it's probably soon we kind of discussed eth and soul we're sort of no strong conviction on either side whoever performs how are you allocating is it just 50-50 are you still holding some Bitcoin like what's your what's your thought between the three or or maybe there's something else you're holding on to yeah yeah so P personally um I'm somewhat I'm pretty even on BTC e soul to be honest like they I sort of rotated um Bitcoin Holdings into soul like in in early 23 late 22 early 23 um I actually added to eth like more recently but I mostly like

like pretty allocated and I'm looking for uh more strategic stuff like I guess farther down the risk curve like which sort of areas are there any areas of like sort of value today you know High conviction meme coin potential bets um you know I do think that like we will get to a point we haven't got there just yet but you have like you know I actually think there's some l2s that look kind of interesting right right now like Blast for example is like a 250 million market cap um you look at some of these charts they just are been down to the right at some point if e gets a bid people will actually go farther out to the risk curve on some of these L2 so

I think there's some potential opportunities there and like I do think we get to a level where you know the l2s have unlocks things like SOI things like Tia things like Aptos that are unlocking like at some point like that just doesn't matter in Bull markets we haven't seen it yet so I do feel like there's a chance that something like a Tia or a suie or something you know gets to 100 billion market cap plus I do think we're going to see this um and just trying to figure out where where those opportunities are yeah absolutely awesome well Michael thanks so much for joining us uh it was great to have you on we'll have to get you back on again uh for the listeners check out the defi report it's a free uh newsletter um and

he does some amazing analysis I think it's weekly um so make sure to to see you can see it in the show notes go check that out and subscribe there uh but otherwise listeners thanks so much for for listening in Mike thanks for coming on and uh everyone have a great day as always if you liked today's episode please hit subscribe and make sure you follow us so you don't miss out on the next one there's also a link in the description to our free 5 minute daily newsletter where we simplify crypto for you while making you laugh and if you're willing to step up your crypto investing game we're going to also leave a link for milk Road Pro you get access to our portfolio where you can see exactly what we are buying this is your number one resource to help you

invest successfully in crypto one final note this show is for educational purposes only and nothing we say is financial advice investing in crypto or any asset is risky and you should never invest more than you can afford to lose thanks so much for listening and my friends have a wicked awesome day