The Shocking Truth About Crypto Privacy

Transcript

I just imagine that my parents will never want to use these systems if like their neighbors can see whe they went to the doctors or whether like how much the salary that received from the government this is not a good world to be in no company in the world is ever going to use fully transparent system so we will need some data protection guarantees down the line we shouldn't be leaking a bunch of person IDI information to arbitrate SC from the internet I think this is going to be hard pment from a space to grow beyond the bubble of the Le that be Curr here [Music] I'm here with Adrien

Brink uh enoma inada and many other projects you do familiar with including Cosmos Cosmos but also be like a cosmos C running Val yeah thanks uh thanks for doing this uh so NADA recently launched and she s mainten and there's ecosystem of projects building there and so uh maybe just for for contacts and remind people of what Nama is and and how it relates to also anoma and like these different players yeah um I mean very practic P NADA is the first project give me a

noral ecosystem that I think it's very much about trying out how we can have good ends are there pring um it is a it's a Cru State system that is as agnostic connect to IMC to the rest of the ecosystem and allows you to move any AET into it has some uh very cool retroactive public goods funding thing has a cool steart system has a much cleaner to S mation um chis m orig wrote the cosmo proof stion like yeah let's not fix all the problems that we didn't have time to fix in the original ination so now I'm on as this very idealized fully spec out version of group z uh where you only pay as much so the inflation Amal is only as much as is

required to get you the security that um yeah so Namar um launched early this year or late last year I no late last year I guess it launched late last year um and now let's go through the phases are m not currently on phase two phase 3 is being discussed um the very nice thing is a fully decent ver launch I have nothing to do with any of the infrastructure anymore there's now six different front ends running that you can use them mod through there's 180 190 valers operating the entire thing um it's like four or five different indexes four or five different block explorers um so it's really amazing to see the community come together and so like

build this way uh complex ecosystem to enable ENT the card the protection guarantees on five now so that's super exciting um and this is really like the first time that with the ecosystem son experiment with like what do good user interfaces around some data protection here this look like how how do people want to use it in the end um and then for anoma I mean Roma is getting private death notes right now uh with the first six teams actively building intent based applications um leveraging every part of the stacks of the hetrogeneous trust model to the uh more ZK world of things in theal ecosystem um and that's probably going to hit public

test cish so so so we we have the model which is this uh this this base layer for user protection guarantees or data protection guarantees that enables users to interact with visual assets in a private way in the way that their data is protected and uh and then anoma is sort of the framework that or the the the like layer that allows this application to exist uh can you maybe just explain that distinction yeah so anoma is very much Focus around what it's the first generaliz in Center protocol it reimplements a gen a distributed operating system for web 3

where right now we still living in this world that's very transaction Center where VM Centric and moving away from world because intense I think as everyone sort like we have't talk about intense pray but we definitely W first to talk about intens and we've been talking about int for the last called 3 to four years and now last year I've been started realizing like intend to Clue the right abstraction and everyone is tring to play around right and so nor is just like the only and probably like has a year to a year and a half May to years Head Start in the rest of industry in terms of being fully generalized intense um that can come to to arbitr the shs um so is fully from scratch and elixir there specs are specs net there notation

g.com um you fully written Alexia which is very cool um and so you can there you can usually start building applications um on that for example a uh multi-dimensional Oil workor Exchange that's going de centralized it doesn't require simple infrastructure uh and just like anything that where actually fundamentally need detend is like what capable of NADA is much more specific like let's like see if that like let's try to fix this like very urgent problem which is everything is currently transparent and it's hindering a bunch of use cases because honestly my parents will never want to use these systems like no company in the world is to use fully transparent system where all the competitors can see everything El or not um and soato also has the facility some

of pH zh to for example optionally disclose on Thea that you want to your regulator for example um and so in that sense because like anas is very brand vision of like what does the next 10 years blockchain development look like like what where does the application development move and I think it this to the right uh sort of direction as we're seeing at the moment and that's coming very soon that's coming so by the middle of this here uh and then the model let's get like the small component correct so that people can start use yeah it's interesting how you know crypto is such a like I mean I that is ideologically aligned with ideas of capitalism but at the same time forgets

that like capitalism is about information Arbitrage and everything is public on Shain uh it's just like uh this s a dichotomy there but for me has never really made sense especially like for businesses to uh use crypto rails that are fully open and where the data is is fully on chain does it make sense I mean even for individuals but but primarily for companies um was that part of the ethos of of building anoma um the ability for businesses to build real world applications on chain and and bringing more kind of real world value on ch um yes a little bit but like the

EOS be is more like like in the middle of 2022 Chris Allen I it down it's like okay what the are we doing here um and I at the time everyone's like showing insane free smart contracts on the for some reason it was supposed to like make def5 worth with trap is it was supposed to be sucess right and we looked at this and we're like okay what is fundamentally required for the space to actually work to tr right where this is not yet not just like a sort of P applications but where this can actually adopt the foundation States World Why by individual like hundreds of millions many billions of individuals and really what this led to is like there are three big counts there is uh you need to be able to get counter Discovery so you need to have the ability and this what

intents and should do you to have counterart Discovery um systems that are inil so you have those very complex K heack that can R messages and so on so that individuals that like for example i' like to trade you e for Bitcoin can discover other parties that want to trade e for Bitcoin or Bitcoin for uh the second big thing is you need to make hetrogeneous trust work because this is the only way to actually get scale for networks and so atrous trust means that we don't all want to s in the same security um and this is sort of like exms my fundament belief that we should be building this Tech to be World by fre resilient um and ethereum and Bitcoin and tana and like all these systems will just go away on the eve of World War I because they rely on double consensus

and under underwat C under C cables are just appear cut and then Global consensus and Sho and now you need to have a system that is capable of operating in this like very Dynamic stress environment where maybe kind to in Lisbon um you can just operate an instance just local to listen because you can maintain physical connectivity so noral is designed for this HR trust squ where um it's as globally connected as possible but it's local of the fire and this really comes down to this I think it's the only true skill fre application because now you can like it's effect BN of data Shing where you know the sh for Lis sh forer sh for glob Fury uh and this is also nice thing because the blows know want to like set on aerior me everyone wants to use

aerior for the settlement fine with me Works want fine with me too want also fine but fin needs about Cho and the third aspect is um you need good privacy guarantees and this is not like need application specific products but like you need the right cryptographic Primitives to allow developers to uers to decide what kind of level of prodcts they want or what kind of level of compression they want and so AA it is really so an application developer wres for jble a as that's called a mul smart contract multis application or the Dex application and then it comes the user choice where the user wants to attach AK

proof or pain Tex signature and so it's not a choice of like the developer to the side like oh there's this private multis application there's this transfer multis application there's just one multis application and it depends on how the speciic geni just use it uh and that was sort of a third large component that went into sign of nor and I think this is like when I look through the sort of history of how crypto has evolved like we really had these three step FS had from nothing to bitcoin and from Bitcoin to ethereum and we're going to see this third step fun from like uh ethereum and ethereum like vcm Centric worlds to a normal intent Centric the intent machine intent Centric world and probably in like 50 10 years or so we'll see another

like fourth step function that I can't really Envision yet but like this is like we are kind get CP of like another step hun that I think is just going to make this ecosystem so much bigger and ex B iic that next step function might have something to do with with AI and the entirety of the block space uh across all chains being captured by transactions that are um initiated by uh nonhuman actors this is like Ching went about this year and this been second like he that saying um in a story but I R P on intense last year I'm say yes

because AI it's fundamentally need and text uh it's the right abstraction button like it it it's not feasible that all of them send onchain transaction that compete for same block block space and intense allow you to do like P top communication like we send a bunch of intents around and then we collapse what we agreed on and then we only SLE what we agree and this is like why you need this kind of very general intend centc framework in order to actually start building truly Onin AI agents which is something that like you didn't think about at all when you build anoma like came up with anoma because was pretty infancy terms of crypto at the time but it just turned out that it's like we build away General P hall there like clearly all this

hauling M to kids which is cool yeah uh just maybe side like that you're probably familiar with um like informal systems uh project cycles and uh like how they're thinking about settlement uh how how do that compared to and I saw ep's talk yeah somewhere and that's not very that the nice thing is so Cycles is it's essentially an application uh around sort of local Curren sy so right and credit clear um and I normal is building this kind of it's building the infrastructure to make something Cycles work um I mean they all s me tees and so like you need some extra cryptographic components but so on the very basic

Distributing systems front this is what like you need to know how to make this kind of application work so I describ this as it's an application uh that uh really benefits heavily from having all needs are know as infrastructure to exist so this nice thing like I think um in the space tendency I say w how these things competing with each other and most of the things are very complimentary like a build on what yeah so um coming back to coming back to anoma uh andada in in this very intense Centric uh say third step right we've got the Bitcoin smart contracts and then intense uh what does the endgame look

like uh and you know in in sort of like a 3 to five year time Horizon as a result of intense uh being widely implemented ACR the application space uh is is block space more unionized or more um uh uh aggregated or or is it more dispersed and just intense are better at accessing this different block space like how does a landscape yeah so we're clearly seeing this move right at the moment that and I think this is just this accelerating curve that um there are many many systems being launched if go off of block space um as in like many different

blockchains but even like l2s I mean l2s are discussed marketing from like say uh like three out of five blocks but okay these all fundament just consensus controls consensus instances and so we just SE this accelerating print of more and more of them getting AR uh so I think the next three to five years to see we're going to see hundreds of thousand BLS hundreds of thousands of these controller instances that control some uh original state or some sub like some delegated state uh for example like my phone it's going to run its own blockchain uh and like it just would be one or one blockchain that just would sit on the same PP network with a r with ethereum and globala and Global Nia and Global salana and we just say exchange M

messages or phots at atbc uh with all the other systems um and so I think what we're going to see in the next three to five years there is that like a lot of the applications are going to leverage probably an normal and the nor just been deployed on many of these different um systems like my local my phone will run on local element instance that I then use like talk to ethereum when I send a multi down uh and I think this is pretty where it's heading because we need we're clearly moving in this direction of hundreds of thousand flock trains and we need some well defined operating system constraction that allows you to actually as a developer to not have to decide oh I'm only building against this one

specific thing on against this thing like you want to be able to build against Windows essentially and I think right now we on the C like where we moving away from building against specific CPUs usually different Computing to ro a buildings like Windows or Linux that's an operated system of strch when you're example like does the phone need to run its own bler the phone has a trust to the execution environment the phone can uh simply sign it it doesn't need to keep track of its own transactions if the state is being managed like by by a third party you know blockchain basically um so um let's say this way for the Simplicity of the abstraction it is much easier to think of your phone as being a one-onone blockchain uh that keeps some State

locally for example uh currently if you have a wallet and so you keep for example your balance low key right so you're keeping some State and some other state is delegated also but especially in good privacy user in things you need to keep a lot more State locally right uh so it's but like running a one or one blockchain is not expensive it's like triap like your phone already has a database we just happen to call this database now blockchain um so yeah when people hear like oh you phone is going blockchain they think oh this going what that's saying is that like user devices are going to have more on like are going to preserve more data and that data is going to interact with other systems yes yeah um like one of the really weird

distinctions right now it's like when you look at the existing wallet Escape it's like my phone has to issue some RPC calls to the network to I see UNL because this you know to like get no balance that's a super weird of stratch we can also say well this phone just runs a super light a note that download some dat from the P2P stack where it like just downloads the data about your account and now you all these notes just sit on the same network and get like same online infrastructure connect all I think we're just going to be heading there because this go to be way more efficient and it's way more flexible because now you can also start programming maybe I have a phone and a second phone or a computer at home and made a laptop with like right and like uh with a noral St offering system you

can Define like how you want to synchronize the data between these like four different devices uh because the devices for nodes can be aware that these are logically connected devices even though same physical machine great okay and so I think I see from where this is head um give us a better picture of you know zoom out and uh now you consider thousands of devices tens of thousands hundreds of thousands of devices connected to these networks uh interacting with block space and uh verifiable transactions through cryptographic means as AKA block things where do the lln fch within this and

like you know I think one of the assumptions is that LMS are going to replace solders uh there's a lot talk also about like user own data and perhaps like running your own inference and this sort of thing uh if we're going down there like use your own data yeah you use your own Ai and also a sovereign to you for your own transactions how does like the AI part fit into this yeah so was principles I I am pretty skeptical that Solas will be repace bance um because solving is computationally very hot and it it's kind of determin itic so it's like you're always going to build very

heavily optimized things from most routes I think what the Ln will do though is they're going to sit a ma input level on like you're not going to have to type in some you're not going to have to encode your own transactions and up like have like very fixed wallet interfaces it's more going to be a chat bot where like you type in I would like to move some assets from AKB and then the llm that you on lowy on your phone figures out what is the r tend to so generate and then send it rest uh and then these next three to five years the solving part of like making like figure out which which inms overow I think that's still going to our

salts um the other aspect is like let's say you want generate an image and then you run uh so you want to Outsource now a task to running computer of running the inference to someone else uh you would also again like write this as your local intent you would send a SP Network and then a number of solers maybe running models and running inference like generate the image to send back you uh so I think it's it's going to be very much on this like uh I I view llms as like they make human inut way easier and they make um sub machine readable U machine output way easier to interpret the students uh so they're going to help a lot on that side and they're also going to help a lot on like you want specific data to run through a model and

you want to Outsource this to third party in that case you're going to use like G structure the 10 send it off sign it send off the network and another all like on the compute and send you back the bu right I think this is really going to evolve a lot around this and the important thing is like this is this allows many different providers to coexist which is very important like rather than having one dominance because now like these solvers essentially run these LMS where you um but it means that rather than having one dominant Mega solver somewhere in the middle that everyone has to trust and everyone has to rely on um since everyone's just issuing these intents in like the same

structure there can now be a market with many different sols competing for sort of business and then specialize in different niches um and this is where I'm kind of worried but like if we this up from our industry the Crypton from the sort of sism side of things that would like all just be beh holding into something like CHT open the eye because they just run this like Mega that they all have to talk to uh and I think we actually here have the chance to like build an act fairly decentralized economic model where many of these teams can compete with each yeah there appears to be very different philosophies on how this looks in the future and you certainly like the chat jibbies and open a eyes of the world

where I'm sure we want to capture all of the data all of the inference and you be the kind of centralized solver um I was but but then like you know on the crypto side and from the folks that do there there is this like uh counter to that which says that LM should be run locally the LM should talk to each other right this kind of like more peer-to-peer model user own data model I was talking to Ilia yesterday and you he sees a future where there's basically like very few super apps and that you know even if you take a that being out of crypto and just like generally all of our intentions whether that is like Financial intentions communication uh or

interacting with any like business or third party will be done through like one application that will connect through all of the services that you currently use all those Services those current like intermediaries will cease to exist because they're not going to have much function I mean like there's basically two things we do right we communicate with people and we communicate with businesses or like third party entities and most of those Communications um I would say you know like say you're booking a flight or buying product you're um initiating a state change on someone else's computer oh yeah basically like if you're booking a if you're if you're looking a flight and issue you on many different right but like if you're booking a flight uh you're creating an intent that creates a

state change on someone else's database and like get you the flight and at the same time you're you know creating State change on your bank uh that is like sending the money to them so that's like one type of interaction and the other type of interaction we have is communicating with people and like currently we have 25 different ways to do that like text messaging all sorts of messaging apps email phone whatever right and uh you can disintermediate all of those different Services by having one super app that just talks to apis uh like at all the businesses with with which we interact and all with all the people in our contact list um what it's like what's the future of kind of you know Tech basic yeah if

there's one super app like where are the opportunities to create value in the middle so this is super interesting like um so anoma is not building the super app anoma is building the infrastructure through which the super app can connect to all these different things that like you have this uniform sort of call it uh melion like this bbone that just connects all these different and that super app can plug into without having to understand oh this is like this specific API for that flight but themselves and that's API for that other flight service and this is actually also where like the hetrogeneous stress model new examp comes where it's like if you want to book a flight and maybe a hotel at the same time they're most likely not being so at same so now we need to have this atomics and synchronicity guarantee

Emil y across two different systems and this is a lot better trust mod comes in where like EV validators if there's a last of overlap in valid um valid set you can actually make two systems that are most synchronous all the time synch so that you can guarantee you will only book the flight if you also book it with hell at the same time so you either do it together or you do n um which currently just what travel agencies kind do for like they guarantee you aity yeah um and I think on the super up side this will very much the pry effect chat account thing that like do chat with your local LM that stores a lot of your local contacts but him and also synchronize across your devices this again really need privacy because this

is going to be like that like that context it's no virion know more about you and anything in history of humanity uh if that leaks your big comments and but you assume we will synchronize this the pro devices and then you just going like CH like find all the option for like flights and hotels and Lisbon like flights to Lis hotels and lbon um and then it kind of will figure out uh using this kind of infrastru like let me send bunch of intense let's see who I get back to and then oh I've gotten these like three things presents it back to you after maybe a minute or so then you got like okay please do it and then it again calls trust conf and goes like gu now like for the synchronicity like look all these things let's see I think he's

actually would be like look way nicer for most humans um but I think it's it'd be terrifying imagine if this like context with run by like one US FM and we all like just uploaded our Consciousness the one us FM like the potential of use is just very very high luckily it's a double- edged sword the world the world is more multipolar and like move to is very like multi-polar world order right now and so I think as soon as you have competing interests there's going to be competition which is like the world to some extent the free market of countries yeah competing against each other and so like I think this is actually where blockchains Chine

shine because like they allow a lot of these things to like very much compete with each other but like he can serve a uniform interface over there so I'm somewhat more optimistic I we not gaps into this like one US compan contr was all happen what happened with Facebook but rather we going to like have a good local LM and your local uh friendly agent and then like it uses the rest of the world to figure out how to get it to you but it's like we're not going to send P this we toally yeah even in a fully abstracted world you're still going to have to use multiple super apps to interact with different servers that fall within different uh kind of ends of that that polarization I actually my H are like the super app on your phones that we just talked to and that like all

the abstraction happens in the back end yeah like increasingly I feel you're having conversations here and over the last couple of months like that AI is just a master abstract it it it just abstracts Bo so much complexity um I mean he you know just think about using your your phone today like you know we we're so used to using our phones to do stuff but and you know the UI is pretty good and like you know it's nice and shiny and like easy to find things but the amount of uh steps requir to do something as simple is like sending a message like communicating a piece of information to someone else like we were

texting today like the amount of of of of of steps required just for me to tell you like let's do podcast of at 1:00 like it's an enormous amount of Step yeah when there's it's just like an idea and and you need to be aware of the idea and confirm um you know of course the next step after after this is like you know minded vases right where the AI is to intermediate people's thoughts uh that that very far to but interesting enough like this is where intents become really cool right like you will currently think of intense as very much exponential nature but they're just sign is they like uh Bitcoin is like not a physical Bitcoin that to move around

it's just like a shared belief that this piece of information represents like actual Like Us doll amount and like in the scheduling example um like I have some preferences and you have some preferences and what time we can train our local agents of and then we can just Express the intent of like yes I would like to like do a podcast and then our two agents most likely will do this like multi negotiation using intents um maybe on the P2P level maybe like need check at some other like underlying database somewhere on ethereum for like some specific information where there was like some double booking but like all of this will just happen in the background and to us it will just be presented as like is there intersection between the preferences that these F yeah it' be

very cool yeah I'm actually could you Priss it for future so let's uh for wrap up here uh bring it back to Nada and the recent launch and so tell folks like uh what's happening right now with the m and how they can get a b and like what's on the road map and team's build days yeah so um for the M we currently phase two um we kindr discussing phase three there's some upgrades coming now uh so if you want to get involved please like join the Forum join the Discord um join the Twitter like join the Twitter for Twitter uh and just see what's going on yeah uh what's the most exciting stuff happening what's what's going on I mean

no matter spe it that iside I mean people to we we sort of like all assume the stuff this worked and like in the last couple of years we've given up the idea of decaration everyone was like one one big server and then you're like oh cool I can talk to a server well you could talk to a server 20 years ago there's like not really that Innovative for like Val was running the entire P that was fully decentralized uh like I and I touched no infrastructure at this point actually I didn't touch any INF stor at any point um I was just like if that that's super exciting it's like an actually get globally distributed Community that's coming together and so right going get involved um there's a bunch of front ends um you can stop building your in front ends you can start also still

running IBC radios that's I think the next step opening up the IBC channels uh and so really right now it's like still in the infrastructure F how do we roll this out yeah um but like if you want to get involved right now and actually build it like think about building UI that for example The Shield walks a lot of the basic constructs already be like we can start building sh swaps with us monsters for example um you can start building sh swaps with f like a lot of these things are now possible uh so that's super cool like please get involved here um and they yeah just start playing around with that I think we in the industry kind of I think not enough people play with this Tech but you should like write a little bit of

python just make it happen by a little bit of this like make it happen just like play your effects right um yeah that's coming up onada so like I hope that over next couple of weeks Community is going to advance the all faces um and then you can start using it you can start building cool privacy preserving applications if you want um what's what's your wish list of privacy preserving applications you want for you built honestly my wish list is uh just like one good ux like a UI where I can just like move asses across chain LLY can conf like C use crap for like not um I I'd like to see that it's very simple so please you are interested in

building up this sched well one thing I I'm curious about it's uh you know we we've been as crypto users at leaking so much data on chain you know over like years of using crypto all your transactions transaction history interacts between all your different galets Etc um how can people like use the m to have much better actually practices and like Vapes I would like to be able to to move my poops to near what that is not linked to all the previous ones right uh because I hold a bunch of cors and crypto kitties like I didn't really get into the nft F but I got into like the early nft experiments yeah like 108 so I'd like you to move down to like

some clean M SP to do spes right um but yeah i' say I think at some point I mean like if to nice thing is like you don't have to do it all once you can sort of like slowly move some assets and like so like break leil which all the assets this way uh so you don't have to do it all once but I think over time I I just imagine that my parents will never want to use these systems if like their neighbors can see whether they went to the doctors or whether like how much the salary they receed from the government right like this is kind of thing um and I I think this is going to be high requirement from a space to grow Beyond so bubble L the leash that be current year yeah what do you think about um you m is

starting to now show its show his face uh I've talked to people I don't use centralize change it very much but I've talked to people recently that told me that you know using a bastic out out in France you know they're asking for seven years of transaction history and their source of fund Origins and this sorts of thing and I think that's only going to get worse um how do you think uh you know like using something like NADA is going to play nicely with uh with that reality work somehow getting into I I think it's a we need this I think we need uh I I'm personally actually somewhat of a fan of M have to say and I think they it on stable corent

things but like s rest should be following some like whether these rules are correct I like I have in some way they go too far R you used to this um I think from a data protection perspective it's like it's like we need to live in a world where you're not leing all the day the most career and currently this is the world been living but this is not a good world to be um so we will need some data protection guarantees down the line I mean ggpr was clearly a long Bon like we shouldn't be leaking a bunch of person information to arbitrate Str from the internet so I think that will come push she uh which she really affect to I mean

I point myself just play you accept most of the T but if you change for example I mean there was this there was this St right there was a stat recently I saw which said the Europeans spend over 500 million hours a year clicking so it's like more than one hour per year per person clicking uh on on cookie banners uh uh I mean yes this is they are going good I'm not a huge fan of so the over over regulatory landscape because they think that that's like very much Innovation killing and like they do regulation with the regulatory for like the sake of regulators and and the regulation costs the compliance cost more of and like than the money laundering it is L to be sto I I had

this interesting experience right like where I think Krypto is going to win somewh by default um because every year like he a all PL St that and very specifically I live in Switzer and I playing and the parents me why some money from the ger bank account the ger Bank what the why you like ATT jic Switzer um and I like then a real human looked at it then like that was spoken about so like gu probably like three or four hours of discussion that when that demanded e for right and like my parents like theil s so like they've been doing the same things the last 40 50 years but at some point like the marginal cost of them as customer is just going to become too high and like every year we add

extra regulation the banks have to follow and like banks are just pricing themselves sort of a business model because at some point they'll like my grand will be the only person because she like doesn't have a credit card and like only ever goes to the same local Brands but even she may be now suspicious because what who the doesn't have a credit card and who the doesn't use online banding and like this compliance bust is going to be a real problem and like if I was currently in that industry I'd be very much focused on like how do we reduce cost of on finance yeah um because otherwise like most of your customers are not going to worth trouble a I mean it's not the banks that are cost that are pretty that are out pricing themselves it's I you want to get a little bit

conspiratorial here it is a finance Ministers of the G7 through the fatf that are creating the rules that Banks now have to but I feel you really not thinking about the long-term F expenses because like of course once you start saying like well like CR on they wor customer to bang more which is clearly the B correct trucks right like if the bank has to spend 4 hours complies on like a single transaction like you got to brilliant that money they me there needs to be meat on the bone for the bank to like keep you as a customer what I'm saying is if they're going to kick you out and like but this is like driving everyone to crypto this I cannot be the interest of people what what I'm saying is that the banks are not Banks sry it it is regulation now that is CER

through the rules of the fatf yeah it it is not their fault but if I was so if I was heavily invested in Banks right now i' been really worried about this that like there are very few mod like very few customers that like growth and money in the future um so by way study the fatf if you don't know what the fatf is look into this it is the most shadiest of organizations it's not even an organization it's just it has no legal Stacks it's just a group of people that happen to have an office at the oecd in in Paris and that basically defined all the rules for compliance in the world and it's it's a it's a bad fight but I mean maybe like one last building call me like where I'm like

I said this on a panel yesterday here and it's like if you don't like specific rules like please get involved it's like technology isn't the onome like get involved make a difference there um because like to me like I'm much more of a Swiss prepper than an American prepper like the American preppers are worried for when the US government comes out to them whereas in Switzerland who worri for when the Russians come out us right like this is sort of like the deconomy like because people fundamentally trust the local governance system and like so everyone I think that you're TR everyone to get involved with that your local governance Sy like because that's fundamentally the trust that you should be having the other thing is like you really want to think in like in this multicol world order that we're moving to we've got your building

was it's all privacy your high on taxes like that's some the point like privacy for actual defense privacy to defend against North Korean like this is why you want to have resilient Financial systems because you want to be able to build coordination systems that are resilient the Brazilian against ISS because like in the next 5 10 15 years those are going to come like the world is going to get mess and like as as like people living in lisin for example like I live in zuk like you should really deeply care that like your local system is as resilient as possible this is like the things that I think about like kind of this is like the reason why I think we should be building a lot of it's like not as an alternative system but as an

upgrade to the existing system because the existing systems brittle and I'm that they're not designed for the sort of messy world that we're heading into it's great note to hand on thank you Adrian B plus sure as always [Music] [Music]