Securing Crypto with MatterFi & SwissFortress

Transcript

GMGM, welcome to what's going to be another great episode of Devantel. So, if you didn't know, Devantel is a 30-minute podcast held every Friday allowing founders, hackers, and anyone in between to come on the show and showcase what they built. And today, I'm ecstatic to welcome Mihal, who's founder of both Matterify and Swiss Fortress. So, Matterfy is an easytouse fintech infrastructure helping make finance more secure for humans and AI. While Swiss Fortress is a private universal solution enabling sent to name crypto wallets and custody systems meant to combat fishing. So if you stick around for today's episode, you'll see Mio give us a overview of both Mattify and Swiss Fortress, drop some crypto security alpha, and show us how he plans to combat crypto hacking. All right, let's get into it.

[Music] MGM, welcome to Show Me How. Pleasure to have you on. Hey. Hey. Good to be here. Yeah. Little pump pump and intro music. Oh, yeah. Dig it. Oh, yeah. Oh, thank you. Thank you. You got the Lord of the Rings behind you. Lord of the Rings behind it. That's right. You know, it's going to be a great show, right? Yeah. I I play D and D um three times a week. I, you know, I I'm running, I guess, some some professionally DM groups. I just Oh, right on. I love it. Um, but I started playing in the 80s and then just

like recently I started doing it again. It's like awesome. It's still It's way better than the first edition. I would say the 245. Um, I don't know. Do you RPG? Uh, I I haven't played DND. Um, but I did used to RPG um, video game wise back in the day. Um, but uh, yeah, I I've heard lots of great things about it. I mean, it's way better than computer games for you, I think. Like like I used to be like a hardcore gamer and it just Yeah, it it's not healthy. Like I I just don't think computer games are healthy in general. They're just like they get you anxious and twitchy and I know a lot of like so many people are into it but

ultimately it's just this highly addictive sort of uh thing and then you know the great thing about just regular like human to human gaming is it it can you know you can't game all night like you can't do stuff yeah the game has to end right and it's and it's like you know way more sort of like I think healthy for your mind um but yeah I was just curious because like your background Obviously ultra nerd. So yeah, ultra. Yes. Yes. I had to ask. Um. Yeah. Excellent. Uh yeah. So I guess uh when you're not cooking up a storm on the D&D table. Um I'm not. Yeah. I'm not the cook. I'm the player. I don't like

cooking. never like DMing because it's it's kind of like I I'd rather just enjoy like really good, you know, like really good uh adventure driven uh narratives that, you know, so I just I'm like very picky with my DMs. They have like the best. So I have that are just like phenomenal storytellers and and just, you know, way never been into like running games. Um, amazing. I just, uh, yeah, I just minmax the tunes. But yeah, just like how I minmax the software. There you go. Those that are super geeky or just like Yeah,

you get what that means. But um, awesome. Uh, yeah. And, uh, I guess um, you also have quite the love for combating uh, crypto security um, with um, you founding both Mattify and Swiss Fortress. But um before we get into that um you kind of revealed uh some of the lighter side of Mihow, but uh do you want to do a brief introduction uh for the technical side of Miho as well? Sure. So you know I've been a hacker since I was 15. I started on the IBM PC Jr. Um and I've been like coding basically my whole life mostly with a security focus. So like the first three companies that I worked for all all got bought and then after that I stopped

working for companies. Um, so like I was the the first chief technology officer of Intelbridge. US, which is a DCbased uh intelligent software company essentially that also does, you know, some security work. Um, and they're still around, you know, I was there like you early 2000s, so I was I was like the first one, you know, employee number five or something uh or three even. Um, and then I worked at Sigil and LCG, which were both software security houses. Um so we did some of the early pioneering work in software security and white hat hacking where we would be hired by either the government or you know some corporation to um essentially analyze their software from a white hat

point of view by looking at the code to find all the vulnerabilities you know quickly. So what that got me into is like you know how do you build software that's like hyper secure right and then you know where where that ended up in crypto is that you know when crypto came out like the hackers the black hats were like yay all the money's online now like before it was just like yeah we're gonna you know do some viruses like the vi you know viruses were like a big deal where um you know it might eat your machine but it it didn't like you go and steal a ton of money for example, right? Like not directly like maybe there was ransomware, maybe there was some data theft, right? That data got resold like

something that was really common was like credit card data being resold, you know, but obviously the stakes are way higher when the actual money is digital, right? And then that's why we've seen this huge, you know, culture of theft and fraud's almost tolerated, right? It's like none of these people really ever go to jail. um they just just steal and it's normal like oh if you got you know fished or scammed in crypto that like happens to everybody you know like um so we've kind of just got to this place where we just accept it we just say this is this is known risk with the space and if you're in the space you're you know

you just gota you got to be more clever than the hackers and obviously that's a you know from so so you know my my personal mission is to create safety, accessibility, and trust because I just don't want people to get robbed. I mean, and the other problem is like obviously when you have that sort of environment where like, you know, like the first thing a new user in crypto thinks is like, okay, how do I not lose my money? Like that's their main thing that they think about because of the, you know, broken environment. Like, how are we going to get new users? Like, how are we going to get past, you know, guys with Lord of the Rings in their background and and dudes playing D and D, right?

Like how is it going to go past us? Like because it's it's just, you know, right now what we're attracting is like geeks because you have to be a geek to survive. Like if you don't understand what's going on then, you know, you're likely to lose funds and whatnot, right? So, you know, and then the sort of mainstream popularity of it like ETFs and stuff, they're they're really that's not actually decentralized anything. That's just, you know, translating crypto into something that somebody can understand but without this, you know, but the the problem like an ETF solves for a Bitcoin investor is it solves their security problem for them, right?

They're like, well, if I trust like, you know, my Wells Fargo or my, you know, savings account or my, you know, IRA or whatever to hold my funds, then clearly I'm cool with an ETF because it's the same level of risk, right? So, um, like, yeah, but that that's not actually fixing the problem. That's that's just kind of working around the problem. So, that's why I'm, you know, that's why I started Matterify. So, Swiss Fortress is a client at Matterfy that it was kind of like one of our marquee clients. I am a a co-founder at Swiss Fortress, but um, all the tech is, you know, made in America. Um, and again, you know, the other reason we started in Switzerland was just because of regulatory. you know, there will be a

American version of of that product coming out fairly soon. Um, I have to which which will be cool. Um, and these are things that sort of just kill the fishing and make crypto super easy to use. It's like decentralized PayPal or or Zel or, you know, or Venmo for all of crypto, right? So, it's like just an instant payment system. You pick whatever digital currency you want and you send to a name and it just works and everything is decentralized and the addresses are computed automatically and you know who your counterparty is but no one else knows that like you sent the money or how much money they have or anything right so it's like fully private decentralized u PayPal for all the crypto you know if

you if I'm asked to I was asked to summarize in what I call vitalic speak which is like um because Vitalic never never just tells you what the feature does. He always just says, you know, this uh this spec and that spec and as technical as possible, right? So, in Vitalic speak, it's um it's autocomputed stealth address via one-way non-interactive cryptographic proof that that's tied to names, thereby making it super easy to use and guaranteeing privacy on um all the chains and tokens that the tech supports, which is basically everything like and at this point we're actually getting adoption on, you know, most of the majors I would say. So, there's, you know, if you have

a favorite chain, it's likely I'm already I'm already adding the tech to that chain. Um, so, um, yeah, it it's, uh, that's that's the sort of summary of, um, where I came from and why I'm here. That's amazing. And yeah, like when you were mentioning uh, only the nerds can use it. Um, I was going to say like even the nerds have have their problems like whenever you're transferring a decently large chunk of money from one wallet to another, like I don't know about you, but I like triple quadruple check the address to make sure like, oh yeah, it's and you do a test transaction, right?

And it's like a dollar or something. Yeah. If you deposit the Kraken, like first you're checking that Ether Scan address and then you're like making sure the balance shows up in Kraken and then you send the main funds. I mean, it's ridiculous, right? So, um, yeah, that's that's what I, you know, I it it's it's it's broken even for, you know, super nerdy people. So, like, you know, the BBIT hack, for example, I mean, that's Benny from Bybit, CEO, you I believe it's the second biggest exchange on Earth. And, you know, he signed the wrong transaction because he doesn't know how to read hacks, right?

And and it's like, you know, if he falls for it, then you will too, right? Um so you know that said they had you know very highly funded state sponsored hackers going after them. Um but the problem that happened at BBIT is you know extremely it's it affects everybody right that's just sort of an you know a fringe example a minmaxed example maxed example of like how much money can be stolen when you know somebody's really really dedicated to um exploiting the same vulnerability that affects everybody every day for lower lower amounts. Um so yeah what what else which way do you want to go? So, do you want

me to show you the tech? Um, talk about the bybit hack, talk about security in general. Um, yeah. Uh, yeah. before we get into the uh the nitty-gritty of of what you have prepared. Uh kind of wanted to touch a little bit more on the security and just kind of find out like was there any type of um security hack that you might have unfortunately fallen for that kind of continued to inspire your journey to founding Matterfy and Swiss Fortress.

Uh, I know you've had quite a tenur um, experience in security, but I'm sure you have some nice quote unquote war stories around it. I mean, for me, it's really hard to fall for a hack. I'm usually the one that's exposing the hack, but um, you know, I wouldn't say there's any particular war story. I think the the big story is that all the war stories are really the same story. It's generally fishing. Um, and gen in crypto anyway, it's generally fishing. um either, you know, sending you to a website that's asking you to essentially, you know, give up your your wallet credentials or um sending to you a website that's asking you send funds to address you don't know, right? Or pretending to be something else and

sending asking you send funds to an address you don't know or tricking your device into um giving control of say a smart contract to an address you don't know. So, so as you can see this, you know, ultimately it's it's uh, you know, it's some combination of steal your keys or or or address you don't know. But even the go to the website thing, even that doesn't sound like it's address you don't know problem, right? Because initially they're not like, hey, by the way, randomly just just send money to this thing because we're Binance and if you do, then you're going to make all this cash, right? Like they're not doing that. they're doing that and say, you know, they gota they got to somehow get you interacting with you, right? So, but like Telegram hacks, you know, and

Telegram group hacks and Telegram uh scams, which are almost in they're always about this. It's like, you know, send this funds here because we're a terrific trading group and we'll trade for you, but when you try to pull the funds out, um then, you know, there's nothing there because obviously they already spent it eons ago, right? So um but ultimately even the web hacks like the reason they exist is because there is no easy way for wallets to connect to custody u in any sort of like native protocol like you have to use this web interface and then you have to receive an address and then you're mathematically guaranteed to not know that that address who that address belongs to 100% of the time, right? Like it's literally trust me bro accounting

it's like we have this amazing decentralized crypto where like okay once the address is correct then everything is infallible but for some reason you know knowing whether the address is correct or not is a is is mathematically impossible right like like literally it's just a okay this is a person I trust and then therefore they give me address because the only person that knows that that address is correct is the guy that generated it the second you give it to somebody now that person has no direct proof that it's yours or in fact anybody's. They don't know who is it is because there's no off-chain crypto proof that ties um that address to an identity in a way that preserves privacy, right? And that's that's what we you know that's the problem we

solved. So like for me it's not one story it's that all the stories ultimately have to do with the same thing which is that the actually the you know the fundamental architecture of how we use cryptocurrencies is still broken you know and it's been 15 years since you know the Satoshi white paper. So uh this is a problem that has to get solved and and now I mean there is you know a big narrative coming you know so Vitalic just posted about this a week ago. It's like, "Hey, by the way guys, let's let's start throwing in privacy, right?" So I can break down kind of like what he's talking about because he he wrote a blog post and the first thing was like start using mixers. Uh and the second point was, you know, have a new address for

every application. Well, that's exactly what our software does. It's like for every two people that interact, you have a new address that gets generated and it's automatically tracked. And that address um to compute that address, you have to have the private key of either the sender or receiver. Ergo, it's decentralized. Ergo, no one knows what the address is. So like if I'm sending money to NARB, then um I compute you know your say BCH or Ethereum or Casper or whatever um address as X. Now if somebody else is sending money to you using still your same name NARB, they'll compute a different address Y and the person computing X cannot know Y and vice versa. And that applies to the whole world, meaning that there is no central

database of receive addresses anywhere. So then when you combine that, so that solves Vitalik's second point. Um, which is freaking awesome. Um, because we're the only people that have it working in the same way. Um, there's been a few other attempts at doing this, but you know, they've all sort of either commercially or or just technically failed. Uh, and obviously the centralized approach of like here's a master list of addresses and, you know, you got to put your address in here. And that only works if the entire chain is shielded. Uh but then the other the problem is all the shielded means that like third party users don't know you know who sent there. they they can't see the essentially like an ether etherether scan doesn't exist in those places right

so if you have a shielded transaction like that but very few chains support that and then even then you still you still got to deal with the address like who's the address right now if you have a static database everybody sends the same address so even if it the transaction shielded you you as the recipient still don't know uh where the money came from right so so that's a huge problem um because Then you know like the accounting is like a year later you're like oh man I don't I mean if if you got a report like you want a log that looks like PayPal or you know export my account history and what you get is if you export your account history is you get a bunch of addresses and then you have to explain every

single one. It's not tenable. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So so it's it's it's not tenable. Right. So we're in this unique place where all of a sudden the privacy is the meta and uh we've actually been working on the privacy and the e but more importantly the ease of use you know for I've been doing this for five years at this company for three because matter bought two other companies before um to create the tech and then I you know raised all the money got most of the customers built the team uh wrote nine patents um the only thing I don't really do is code but I do do a lot of the architecture Um, so not any I mean I used to code a lot but not um not not at this job in

particular. Right. So I think that's the you know that's the answer to you know what's the big story that the big story is that all the stories are the same story. That's that's a wonderful answer and yeah I mean like everybody's everybody's seen them seen all the all the stories come up on their uh Twitter X feeds. Um it's like you say usually the same thing over and over every other day. Yeah. Every other day. Yeah. New hack. You know how many millions got stolen today. So right. So this is like you know and the other the other side of it is like the custody hacks. Right. So what the custody hacks do is they amplify the brokenness of the system and that's the other thing I can talk about

because we do have another thing that's not sent to name that when you combine with sentiname makes custody super safe. So really like you know the big theft is always a combination of you know like buy bit essentially it's fooling the the signers into um because they have no send to name and no clear cryptographic proofs for their cold wallets. Um, meaning like there there's no sign that says, "Okay, you're Hey, Benny from BBE, you're transferring from wallet named X to wallet named Y, right? Um, and you're the signer and the other two signers are so and so." And like everybody's, you know, identity is revealed to that signer but not to the public, right? Like if that was the case, then you know, every time you had

a normal operation, that's what would happen in that cold wallet of transfer. Then what the hackers did is they sent essentially what was from the wallet's point of view a random um signature request for a random DeFi call, right? Which just replaced the the code in the contract with the attacker's code. Um just based on one parameter being uh changed and the payload was obviously different because the payload was actually this new code. Um but it all looked like you know the regular hex that they typically do. Now in our system that wouldn't be the case, right?

if they were using that, it wouldn't be the case. But they um and then if the attacker, you know, ran into our system while they're trying to execute that same hack, the the ledger would just say, "Hey, this is a random contract call. You probably shouldn't sign it unless you're 100% confident that this hex is secure, right?" So obviously as a user, if like your regular thing says transfer from A to B, sign here in plain English, right? And that's the actual cryptographic proof meaning the what like nothing else can happen like the only thing that can happen when you sign that is that maybe the message doesn't make it to a node and nothing happens but the money is not stolen right so you know in that reality we would have we would have defeated them and that speaks

to offchain crypto proofs which not only can you use them to um create this sort of send to name scheme which is a combination of on and offchain crypto proof it's really what I would call a side side chain crypto proof, not side because it doesn't use a chain, but outside the chain crypto proof, that's using some onchain meta data to create this 100% accuracy of like who you're interacting with, right? So, that's how we do it. Um, but if you have full off-chain crypto proofs in your custody system now, you don't need signers at all on the custody side. So you don't need people with keys just sitting there like approving transactions and signing things like it's just not necessary and

I can explain why that is. So now you don't have the vulnerability at all of like the inside job, right? So now like things like FTX and uh Mount Gaus although still possible in our system, they're way less likely because you can create essentially ceremony around the keys. That makes the obsec extremely easy because there aren't like a million people in your organization every day with the keys to the money. And that's like the thing that the, you know, Lazarus group, which is again wiser or femax, um, by bit obviously, and a million other things, they're constantly explaining. They're like, well, I'm going to fool those, you know, two out of three guys or three out of five guys or whoever, you know, whatever the um,

multi-IG sharding sharing scheme is. Um so um that's the other story is that and that's something that's very esoteric people don't understand is that we we use crypto proofs all the time on on chains like like if you're signing a transaction for Bitcoin then there isn't like some guy sitting on the Bitcoin miner approving your transaction right or or like having to whip out his sh you know share of the key you know from a geek's point of view I'm talking about Shamir secret sharing which is generally the architecture are, you know, used for um multi-party computation schemes where you have like, you know, X out of Y people signing a transaction. So, but no one has to whip out their share on that

crypto miner. It just receives a crypto proof and it's like, oh, okay, everything's valid, correct? I'm just going to process the transaction. So, why isn't custody work that way, right? Why why do you need people running custody? And and the answer is not because you have to have them. It's because the thing that's holding your money at Fireblocks or BitGo or any of these things today completely has no idea who you are, what your wallet is. It's like essentially just a giant, you know, custodial wallet. It's like a wallet for the institution, but it has no relationship to your funds, right?

Just like it doesn't know if your withdrawal address is correct. It's it it certainly doesn't know what your like cryptographically what your intention is. So what we did is we made it so that like if you deposit your funds to um an exchange it actually goes to a name first of all like say you know Brinkx is one of our partners so we're deploying this this custody system at Brinks um you know you deposit to a name the name has a KYC proof so and all this happens in wallet there's no web three in the scenario at all because you don't need it anymore so now that whole layer of like oh by the way uh this is the real website or go here blah blah it's like if you just take away go to this website for for you know to do the fintech that

you want then the attackers can't leverage that anymore because it's just not part of the user's mental model like the user is just like well why would I go to a website I don't do that anymore right I just send money to a name and then and then I interact via this you know protocol inside my wallet with what I want to do with that money and everything's an intended crypto proof right so like in in our system what happens is the user the same set of keys that's used to manage your your your funds online is used to manage your funds offline. So like you just tap your hardware wallet card. So here's like one of our hardware wallet cards for another customer. You you tap this and you can say all right now I want to um say bid ask or I want to withdraw or I want to

transfer to another user instantly offchain and the hardware security module understands that. So the message from you to the thing controlling your funds and custody is just a straight cryptographic message from point A to point B there. You don't and when you do that you don't need people to operate that hardware security module at all. Like it can ask people like hey this transaction is over 10K needs human review. That's great but now that human doesn't need to have the keys to anything. So now your entire security and ops problems just reduced to like you have backup keys and they're in actual deep cold storage. So the you know the Korean hackers have to break into your safe somehow or to your HSM

somehow. Now note that in no none of the Lazarus cases has there been a break into the hardware security module. It's always been exploiting the people with the shares. So right. Yeah. So so essentially you know when you do that you solve that problem. And the other thing is how do you solve like FTX or Mount Gaus or these inside jobs with that? Well, you know, if like you have a company and it's a custodian and and this is the policy that no one's running around with keys, the keys are always in the safe. It's way harder to do an inside job without, you know, anybody knowing what what happened. Like at FTX, it's just like we don't really know who absconded with the money because they had a bunch of Yahoos, you know, running around with keys as part of the thing.

So now they get to say that. But in my system, they don't get to say that. It's like for it to work, you you don't need a bunch of Yahoos running around with keys. It doesn't the system doesn't require that. So, this is, you know, a way to prevent to make essentially insurability of digital assets way higher. Um it it makes it so that um inside jobs are way harder and it makes it so that you know outside hacking is well nossible in in custody. So, it's kind of like the ultimate, you know, Wazrex, FEMX, Bybit, Lazarus Group, you know, Kim Jong-un, Rocket Man, you know, ballistic missile funding program. Um, killer.

Awesome. Sounds that sounds amazing. And, uh, uh, yeah, I I'd love to see all of this in action. I know you have like a little demo. Yeah. Uh, prepped. I do. So, let me just share screen real quick. So, and unfortunately today we have an issue with our Ethereum accelerator. So, I don't I'm not I can send ETH, but I can't see balances. I'm going to show this to you on BCH. It's basically the same thing, but like right now, if you download the beta wallet, you're going to run into that bug. Um, so here we [Music] go. Um, let's do window first. Okay, so I'm sharing this one.

So, you see this is looks like a regular wallet, right? So, I can go in here and generate a receive address. Um, but that's not what we want you to do. What we want you to do is you send a name. So, here like like I said, there's a bug right now where I'm not getting Ethereum transaction history. But, um, if you go into BCH, you see it working, right? So, like every transaction is to and from a name. So, if I want to just, you know, send an asset like, you know, I want to send rider, let's do, you know, one test net BCH. And this is just another, you know, username um of somebody I know. Now, all I have to do is just spell that correctly. It's case inscentive, meaning capital R and little R is still the same user. We did that deliberately, so like

you don't have people, you know, essentially trying to steal from each other by exploiting like that. Oh, you sent to the lower other capitalization. Therefore, you know, your money's mine. Haha. Right. But anyway, to send a crypto, you just hit that. You just type in the name and hit next. That's it. And this works. This is the same name for all chains, right? So if I want to send Ethereum, um, you know, I already already sent the crypto, right? Um, so if I want to send Ethereum or any other asset, I still just use the same name, right? So it's that's why I say, you know, it's crosschain or it's multi-chain. Um, then when you add like atomic swap defy, then then you have crosschain sent to name.

So that's one of the things that we're also going to be rolling out um with clients, right? So all this is white label. So like Swiss Fortress is a customer of Matterfy. There will be a um Matterfy operated wallet in America though because the political environment has now changed and now it's okay to you know release this stuff. Um so like looking at it on chain let me just change the share to full screen here. Um wow.

Screen. It's not giving me It's giving me attitude. It just worked like we just tested it. Oops. There we go. Screen share this screen. Okay, now you see the whole screen, right? So um let me just get rid of us from the background. Right. So if now if I take like you know let's go to um as you can see we got this this particular wallet like I it's one of our big test wallets or my personal test wallet. It has hundreds of thou tens of thousand not tens thousands of transactions. So like just as on this one chain I have 2400 test transactions.

So yeah it works right. So like if I you know um hold on let me look at this transaction yet to rider um if I pull up explorer you'll see so that how much is that transaction for it was like for three test net BCH so let's see we should see a yeah so here it is right this is the three test net BCH and you see this address so how does my wallet know that this is writer's address um and and then normally this address would be in some central like okay So, let's run through the typical scenarios. Is there some central service like Proton's, you know, Bitcoin sent a name that stacks a bunch of your addresses and then hands it out to wallets as they

request it? The answer is no. The problem with that is obviously whoever controls that, whoever hacks into that now can reveal everybody's balance, but if they control it, they can just steal money, right? So, you don't want a central database. Is it, you know, friend.te is the same thing. So, there was that friend.te tech hack a year ago where like all of a sudden you know 100,000 people's XIDs were tied to how much money they have which now makes them you know huge targets for hackers uh because now the hackers have all this metadata they can use to then then target this person and you know exploit them essentially via again fishing of some sort typically um so that's really bad you know um Fireblocks network uh the biggest complaint Fireblocks network users have to me anyway is that hey I

can look up everybody else's balance because they have names inside of Fireblocks network and now like if you're a custodian you can just see how much the other guy processed today which is if you're like a trading house not not great obviously right if your ENS are unstoppable then I can trivially look up your balance like in all these cases essentially um most of them um you can look up somebody's balance if the address is static if the address is not static there is some centralized thing computing it for you so fluid key has that issue Right. So what is this? This, you know, this is a stealth address, meaning that it's an address that only the two parties know. Like you can see

it on chain like you can see it in this block, but no one knows that this is Mihow sending to Ryder and no one can possibly know that mathematically unless they're Mihow or Ryder because they need Mihow or Ryder's private key to compute this address to know that this belongs to us. So there is no there's a central database of it's actually I'll call it not central it's a both centralized and decentralized database of the names and the meta data that's used to compute these things but from that database all you get is just a list of the users and their names but you can't correlate to anything that they're doing. You don't see any like you don't know if they're using it a lot using it a little sending money on which chain like none of that's

possible. Timing attacks are also not possible. Um so you basically you just don't know right at all right and this is the only such system in the world and that's why we're you know fairly proud of it because despite all this technical complexity to the user it's just hey I I just sent money you know to a name that's it so under the hood I have all this crazy tech going um and you know this is about to be the meta data the first host is meta is going to be polygon the second host is ICP so we're like onboarding chains and we're getting all the major projects essentially to use in some form. We're working with MetaMask. We're working with uh Midnight, Cardano, Hyera, Arbitrum. Um obviously, you know, BCH, some BCH,

sorry, some BTC L2s. Um and but it supports all the L2s plus L1, right? So like you can, you know, inside this wallet within the next six months, you can expect to see a lot more chains. Like today, we support Dash, ecash, light BCH BTC um Ethereum. Uh, one old customer of ours was Casper was actually one of the very first customers. Uh, used to be a fairly famous project, but then they rockpulled all their investors, so they're not that famous anymore, but they did, uh, invest heavily in us early on, and we made a really cool wallet for them. Um, so that's that. And then, um, the other thing I can show you is just so that so the custody system inside this wallet's not enabled because we're

still working on the alpha, but I can show you a diagram. Um, let me just pull up the one of our decks here and I'll show you. Sure. The diagram of like exactly the stuff I was talking about. Give me one second. I guess as you're pulling it up um just a quick question for me. Um, so every time um so if you were to send uh another test uh BCH to to Ryder, would the computed address be the same every time? The one in between? So that's a setting and what we're going to do in production is just make it the same address because there's like in right now in our beta wallet on

the Bitcoin based the UTXO based chains we generate a new address every time because there's no spend penalty to that but it's not really useful and it creates more um more uh compute burden on the clients right so it's like as if you're sending a new address every time say on Ethereum you're, you know, and you you you receive, you know, 100 transactions on Ethereum at once to every you have essentially have a 100 accounts even though all that money is coming from the same person, you know, then when you try to spend that money that the fees are higher, right? So, it's not really useful. And given that the first address is already super private, like the only way anybody's going to know is if they grab your keys.

There is really not a whole lot of point to using a new address every time. Um so that's something that's getting disabled in production um because it just creates extra computational burden. But you know here's the by bit hack breakdown. So like I said there is essentially you've got these single shares like each you haven't uh let me let me hit share screen share screen share the screen. Cool. So this is the my buy bit hack breakdown.

Obviously, one of the problems is the random address from which we already talked about a lot, right? Like you don't know either in custody or in person to person or person to robot AI to AI. No one really knows who the address belongs to that they've been given, right? So, we solve that problem. So, that's like a right away, you know, half the hacking be gone. Um the other problem we solve is the you know the problem of these humongous thefts uh which is that you generally have you know people with keys say you know two out of three they have key shares and uh the policy engine may also have some key shares and HSM has some key shares and in um when you combine X out of Y you can magically just spend all the money and this happens a lot of times a day

because that's how withdrawals get processed right so what we do in our system is we get rid of that like there there's no people here. And then even in the cold wallet where you may have people because you know even when you use our system it's still probably a good idea to have a hot and a cold the cold wallet uses end to end crypto proofs. Therefore the the you know the the rocket man hackers can't you do the heist that they did. Um and then the way the custody system works is right here. Um you see there's no people in this diagram. It's say, you know, three out of five nodes, but the nodes are the only thing that have the shares. There's no people with shares except the backup share in case like a um server goes completely belly up and you just got to

restore it. So like in our system, the only times you got to touch the keys as a person is if you're reloading new firmware or um the server blows up, which is ideally, you know, these things almost never happen. It's very rare, you know, once a quarter, once a month. So when you have um the ability for you know these things to happen once a quarter, once a month now like a regulator can be part of your key system. So that's how you prevent an inside job. Right. Right. Like it's all sudden possible that like you could actually have a third party that is is is part of your uh key ceremony. Um which it know radically reduces the

risk. Um and so you know and then we use end to end crypto proofs at all the steps. So like when you deposit to a name you get a offchain crypto proof back to straight to your wallet says okay you just deposited you know 10 BTC now what do you want to do with it? Maybe in step two, you want to, you know, exchange it for Ethereum because say this is an exchange that's using our system, right? Say it's Coinbase or something, right? So, um, now you whip out your hardware card, you you tap and, uh, an offchain crypto proof gets sent to the hardware security module and it's like, oh, this is me how, you know, exchanging this for this, so I'm just going to do it. No people required. And then the third step, I'm going to sign again an offchainment, which we

obviously just call it withdrawal. That's like literally what it's called in our documentation. And when I do that, the HSM receives the withdrawal and says, "Oh, this is Mihow doing the withdrawal." And the all the other servers also receive the same request. And they're like, "Okay, this is Mihow doing the withdrawal. Therefore, I can sign the the the the multi-party computation to release these funds back to Mihow. And by the way, he's he has Ethereum. So, how do I know what address to send? I know his name. So, now I can comput his Ethereum address without asking him. So you can see how this is like far more secure, right? Um so that's the mission of Matterfy. We make software wallets, hardware wallets, AI agents, custody system. We just make fintech, you know, way more secure for people. And it's part of my personal

mission to create safety, accessibility, and trust because you can also attach like identities and names like KYC proofs and whatnot. But now I'm getting like pitchy and technical and I really just want you to ask me questions. So but that's the stuff that I was like planning on sharing. Wonderful. And yeah, I mean, um, we're pretty we've gone over time, but that's fine. Um, I guess a couple couple questions, um, from me is, um, a, uh, how can people get started with, uh, Swiss Fortress? Um, is there a, um, like what's the sign up process like? Do they have to pay to use it? Yeah. So, Swiss Fortress is, you know, the only thing you have to pay for is the name in production. In beta, it's totally free.

So like the beta names separate separate setup than the production. So if you go to swissfortress.com um you can go to launch.swissfortress.com and like reserve your name for when we're in production. We anticipate being there in like three months roughly. Um we're basically doing the you know like I said the infrastructure work right now with some of the key providers that have given us grants to basically hold the infra on their on their ecosystem. And there is a L3 token that we have called Fortresscoin. Um, but the users don't have to know anything about that. Like it's not like, you know, the traditional DeFi method would be like if I come up with something cool, every time you use it, you got to give me more of buy more of my token, right? And that just makes it super clunky. So, we do have that

token in the background. It's used to secure the meta data and compensate, you know, the L2s for securing it, yada yada, but the user does not have to like the user just buys a name. Ultimately, the price target for names is 10 bucks a year. And for 10 bucks a year, you get essentially what is unless you're super high volume um you know unlimited decentralized send send to name like I just described. So you know um it replaces banking, it replaces payment systems, it replaces, you know, everything. Uh and it's incredibly affordable, right? So that's the the business model at Swiss Fortress. um to get in on the beta, you know, we have like a ZLY campaign, we have rewards, you can, you know, earn some token for

helping us find bugs. You can download the beta. Um all that's at swissfortress.com. And then, you know, Matterfy, which is the, you know, company that created it. You know, definitely pay attention to the X for the announcements that are coming because they'll be pretty big with some really big partners that, you know, are about as big as partners can get on planet Earth today. You know, we hope that the adoption the adoption for us in the last, you know, five, six weeks since ETH Denver because the project kind of went viral in ETH Denver and then we got some really good partners like DNA fund, Michael Turpin, Lunar Digital Assets, so they the guys that made Polygon famous um did all their marketing uh did their you know their first launch and everything. So they they wrote their

light paper. Um, so you know we we have a really good team like promoting the the thing now. So what's happening is that there's a lot of adoption for the tech happening on the back end and you know as these things become official and you know we're near you're in production you're going to see a lot more news but like you know hey you can you know ideally six months from now like most the major wallets on earth you know can use the name and then there's also a bunch of other wallets that all use this fortress name standard u which is what we're calling it to um to uh send send and receive crypto and run your custody. So that's the answer to how you get involved. Um and you can find all that

on matterfy.comfor.com or in our X accounts. Awesome. And yeah, um all that is linked in our YouTube description below. And then my final question was around the road map for Mattify, but you kind of dropped the hint at some alpha that you got some big partners in the pipeline coming along. I mean, yeah, the road map right now is to just get to production. like we're at a place where the beta is essentially done. Um and now we're like fully decentralizing it because the beta is partially centralized, partially decentralized. Um now we're just fully decentralizing it.

So like even if you know I have this problem that I have today which is you know I can't get balances. Um it it shouldn't affect anything. Um but that doesn't mean like you know like if there's a infrastructure problem with Infura or any of these things doesn't mean you lost your money. It just means that you you can't see how much you have like right this particular second. So, uh it's you know so like I mean these are all like we don't um for our accelerators for Bitcoin are actually probably the best in the world but to make uh that sort of UTXO level of privacy and redundancy and apply it to an EVM chain is actually a ton more work that which I hope to get to but it's sort of like you know secondary priority

and what you're seeing with that bug today is essentially exactly that. It's that Ethereum uses Infura whereas Bitcoin uses decentralized accelerators, right? So, so um there is no like you know master RPC system that somebody can sit on and like you know see what you're doing. Um so we solved that problem as well. Um but yeah, the road map right now is just get to production with both the custody system and the wallets and then get as much adoption as possible. um you know finish our series A and then just grow grow grow um and you know my mission is just get as much adoption for the Matterfy tech as possible for Fortress names in general obviously.

Amazing. Amazing. And yeah, like you've built a really great um product from what you demonstrated and what you spoke about and it does solve a legitimate problem, one of the biggest problems beyond just uh UX for crypto. Um keeping people's money safe. Um and that's that's what majority of people want. So really looking forward to to seeing the the product hit production. Um, and yeah, just want to thank you again, Miho, for taking the time to come on the show today. I felt like we could have gone on for another hour or two. Um, so really engaging talk. Awesome. Thanks, Nar. Great chat chatting with you and chat soon. Peace. Bye. Yeah. All right.

And, uh, for folks who are who have watched us live, um, I'm going to drop a link uh, for you to claim your BIP badges um, uh, collectible. So, if you are into that kind of thing, definitely keep that or uh check that out. Um, and with that, just want to wish everybody a very happy Friday, happy weekend, wherever you may be. And we will catch you back here for another great episode of Devontail next week. All right, all have a good one.