Scott Melker on Trump’s Fed Takeover: Why It Could Supercharge Bitcoin & Gold

Transcript

Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent. >> Yes, sir. >> You know, if you just keep calling the top, eventually you'll be right, but you probably won't have any money left. I think we're going to go certainly with Bitcoin a lot. Previously, this has been done kind of offchain behind the scenes lending out. Micro Strategy does this offchain to get some Bitcoin yield. Do you think they're going to deploy some or all of the assets that they have under custody? >> Welcome back to the Rowup. This is your home to learn from the biggest guests, the brightest minds at the tip of innovation.

>> Our goal is to help spread the collective knowledge of everyone in our community. >> We are breaking crypto out of its echo chamber and taking it to the real world. >> Sit back, relax, and enjoy it. >> Scott, man, great to see you again. I've had a couple guys on today. Uh, one of them was YQ. We were talking about the Black Friday crash. Yes. Uh, about 10 days ago, but man, market recovering now. Um, generally there's people it feels like we're we're we've diverged and people are at either one end of the spectrum or the other. You got people calling the top. They're saying gold is a signal recession is coming. There's going to be no rotation. Uh, AI capex is slowing down. Micro strategy slowing

down. All of these things are signaling a downturn. The leverage crash wiped out all the interest. And then at the other side, you have basically a renowned bullishness. You have sticky liquidity coming in. ETH DATs are continuing to buy. More DATs for longtail assets. Generally, where do you fall in this in this market stage conversation? >> I think trying to call the market top is extremely dangerous and usually makes you look like a fool. Eventually, you're right, but you're usually poor by the time that you are. So, if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it. I don't see any reason to believe that uh a market top is in besides the fact that people are impatient and just think that the market has to go up every day or every week or else everything's over. We are in an environment right now where

clearly we're going to be adding liquidity and I don't take a view based on a week or a month, right? So I'm at a much longer cycle or longer view whether Powell continues to cut or not. We know exactly what's going to be happening when Powell is gone in May. And that's that Trump is going to put in some sort of puppet that'll cut rates basically back to zero. And you have at that time 7.5 trillion, a record high right now as of today, literally sitting on the sidelines in mutual funds and treasuries. All that money when it's not seeking yield anymore is going to have to find a home and that's most likely to come back into our beloved assets.

Right? And you have a president who whatever you think of him politically, don't really care. Whatever you think about what he says, whether it's true or whether it's not true, I I do politics about as much as I do college sports at this care. I'm utterly indifferent. There's one thing that we know he and Bent and Lutnik and all these guys deeply care about, and that's everybody getting rich. Uh, excuse me, everybody at the top getting rich and barkett's pump as a gauge for the success of his presidency. and they have had an insane amount of buttons to push and levers to pull over the past few years Biden administration as well to make sure that uh recessions remain illegal and that markets continue to go up. So you're basically betting that there's no

buttons left to push or levers left to pull right now for the dead top of everything to be in. And that could be the case. I'm just saying nine out of 10en times when you call the top, you're going to be wrong, right? And so talking about a rotation, I I I I don't know whether it's a gold rotation into Bitcoin. I think that idea is a bit before its time. I think it's a wishful thinking a bit by Bitcoiners. I think a little of that does happen. But we do have some historical precedent that when gold tops, that's usually when Bitcoin is bottoming. And gold is having its worst day since 2013. Right now, as we're speaking, silver was down 9% today. I mean, these are like shitcoin moves. Can I say that on this show?

Absolutely. >> Shitty shitcoin moves. >> Yes, sir. >> And you know, so >> and Bitcoin bottomed right when they were kind of topping and has risen since. So, you know, a few hours is not a data point, but very clear that one is not necessarily dependent on the other at any given time. And maybe it's just the power of the dollar that's wrecking all those things, right? You see the dollar rise. But Bitcoin doing well in that environment up to almost 114,000 here off the low as like 107,000 at, you know, 2 am this morning standard time. So, I mean, where I put the market is no real reason besides uh disbelief that it can't continue to go up.

>> Yeah. >> Famous saying, you know, markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent. >> Yes, sir. >> You know, if you just keep calling the top, eventually you'll be right, but you probably won't have any money left. I think we're going to go certainly with Bitcoin a lot higher. >> Love it. Um that makes a ton of sense. Uh if you click on uh we should have Yeah, if you click on the little control there in our in our meat, you'll see that we've got one of your tweets up. Uh in reference to what you're saying about gold and silver trading like shitcoins, gold's on an incredible run, but the chart doesn't tell the whole story.

Decades for decades holding gold instead of stocks has been like paying a premium on peace of mind. It's not a bad trade, but it's a costly one. It's actually returned less per year while the S&P 500 averaged 12.2%. And it hasn't even uh it's unimp underperformed inflation. Hasn't even beaten inflation. You'd have more dollars on paper, but they buy less than before. Do you think this has always been the case that gold has performed and traded like a memecoin? Is it a shitcoin? Is it essentially just a pet rock? What do you think is the play?

>> No, I'm not saying that that thread at all. I'm sorry that yet that's a funny notion and I can definitely say that today because you don't usually see 6 to 10% moves on a rock that like a percent a month is a lot, >> right? We've seen this massive moving gold, but that's not the norm. But the the point I'm making here is that you had a 30-year period where gold didn't even outperform inflation. So, it's a mean reversion catch-up trade to have gold where it is now. And it's not even remotely close to catching up if you take it on a 30 40-year time horizon, right? Gold would have to go many multiples higher here just to have outperformed over that time period any of these other assets. So, if you were holding gold as a hedge against

inflation from 1980 to 2019, 30 years, you literally lost money like against inflation. and your inflation adjusted price of gold is lower than you paid for it. >> Quick quick followup, Scott. Does that mean that we've got more room to run in gold as we revert higher? >> I think so. So, like I think that we could have a top but not the top, right? So, once again, yes, I think that Bitcoin that gold, excuse me, is historically overbought here. If you're a technician and you look at, you know, chart analysis or RSI, it's extremely overbought. Maybe it's overshot, but you know, you get these mean reversions. I think the daily 50 MA on gold is like 3,700. Maybe the 200 MA is 3,200. I

don't know. I'm not looking at exactly. I can actually pull it up. Yeah, the 200. It's 3270. They're rising. So even if price comes down, retraces a bit, 37 36 meets one of those lines, that's normal bull market retracement, but we would call it a crash by anyone else's metric when you're going from once again an asset that's not supposed to be volatile. If you go from 43 to 3700, that's going to be a significant move, but still doesn't really change anything. So yes, I think you may get corrections and cool offs, but once again, if you go back to government behavior of 37 38 trillion in debt, they've given up on trying to pay that down. What they've decided to do is outgrow it. And anyone who understands

government speak knows that outgrow means out print. >> So the goal here is to deflate. The goal here is to debase the dollar as much as possible to basically create asset inflation and to attempt to not create consumer and uh consumer inflation and inflation on goods at the same time, which is a tough needle to thread that they've thread for a long time. But they're literally telling you they're going to print money to make assets go higher. So you either believe they can do it or you don't. >> Right. Um I agree. They can do it for a while and then whenever it breaks it breaks big and you that's when you start talking about fourth turnings and great depressions and things like that. But is today the day for a great depression? I don't

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The wait is over. The Talis testnet is live. Be part of the revolution. Join now at testnet.talis.network. I uh I had a great conversation with Arthur Hayes about this where what what you're describing about their ability to print money. Uh well, there are certain puzzle pieces that fall into place or they start to break apart and that gives him more or less of an ability to print the money. For instance, Lisa Cook, the fourth Fed governor, if Trump has four out of seven of the Fed governors at his disposal, then he can start to take control of the Fed and print money at will. Lisa Cook is the fourth. if she gets removed like there's this mortgage crisis whether or not she was you know fraudulent and gets removed for for

cause that would give uh Trump four out of seven that essentially pledge allegiance to him and and therefore would cut rates on his command but I want to and and so generally printing money is going to help both gold and bitcoin you're very involved in both of these markets I'm curious how you're thinking about the duality between the two where do you think the gold ratio to bitcoin is headed from here got another one of your tweets up stocks up Gold way down, Bitcoin down. Bitcoin trades independently on any given day. Some days randomly with gold, some days randomly with stocks. An uncorrelated asset. Right now, these are both part of the debasement trade. Do you see one of these outperforming the other going forward?

>> Uh I think over a long enough time frame, you can just zoom out on the Bitcoin to gold ratio and it's nothing but up and to the right with a few uh with a few, you know, uh turns up and down here and there. out. If you look, it does look like Bitcoin has broken down against gold on the longer term chart. But let's be real, Bitcoin has probably a lot more room to run. And the more that gold runs, you have to assume that if there is a narrative that they're both a part of the debasement trade, and there are people who are younger who now understand the debasement trade, are not going to buy gold, they're probably going to buy Bitcoin. You would think that he would either outpace it or keep it up. But I mean, what's gold's market cap now? 20

>> 30 trillion. 2020, right? So we're at less than a tenth even with Bitcoin going up this high. Well, I mean it's 25, right? So the ratio right now is 28. So that's 28, >> dude. To think about 10% move in a $30 trillion asset is incredible. >> That's right. So imagine if Bitcoin just outpaces gold by 10% and they're both going up, right? You have a massive move uh for for Bitcoin. So I think that over a long enough time, Bitcoin will continue to outperform gold. And I actually think Bitcoin is more likely to go up regardless of what gold does because I do not really view it as a correlated asset. And I'll have these arguments and I'll have the argument with someone who thinks it's a risk asset and trades like Nvidia. And the flip side, I'll have someone who argues

that it's a riskoff asset and trades like gold. >> You can't have it both ways. And that's what actually makes Bitcoin beautiful is if you look at any investor portfolio, the holy grail is to have an idiosyncratic asset. something that has a chance of trading different than everything else in your portfolio that's uncorrelated, right? Even if it goes down when everything goes up, that's actually good for your portfolio because you have something that's different, right? And so Bitcoin really has, you can look at sharp ratios, but historically it has offered that its correlation over long time frames is extremely low to either asset, you know, 0.06 or something to to stock. So, I just really view it as one of the holy grails of a portfolio, even if it goes down.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Uncorrelation is great. And and for so such a long time, we saw everything in cryptocorrelated. Um things are starting to diverge. We're seeing large caps do quite well. Alts not do as well. I want to switch gears here a little bit because we had some news that hit the wire this morning. I'm sure you saw yesterday Coinbase acquired the Up Only NFT, 25 million bucks. So, it's pretty insane. uh to to pay $3 million for uh per live stream per per podcast episode. Um >> yeah, we're doing the wrong business or doing the right business wrong, I should say.

>> And we kind of we kind of realized that this was part of a marketing campaign that Coinbase ran for uh Echko, which they announced today, an acquisition for 375 million. I'm curious, do you have an Echo group? Have you used Echo? generally what I mean you were around in the ICO days. I remember back you know 2017ish I remember following you now we've kind of revisited and revived the ICO um phenomenon but we've done it in a more KYCed and professional way. Do you think there's and there was plenty of grift that happened back then um then to coin and and the likes, right? Do you do you think there was positives that we can pull out and now Ekko is in a position where it can provide some real

value? >> Uh I definitely think there's positives that we can pull out if they've built something that's good plumbing for launching projects on a reputable platform. I think that that's obviously a positive because Coinbase's reputation is likely to be behind anything that's launched on there. So when they inevitably go down 99.9% it'll be Coinbase instead of a bunch of uh influencers getting roasted. And um you know I I've never used Echo. I you know got pretty heavily rinsed uh both just for participating and actually monetarily and a lot of that ICO nonsense especially in 2021 uh in 2020 that sort of iteration of it. Um, and I

deeply believed in a lot of this stuff only to realize, you know, after it all went down that it was just all kind of correlated and nonsense and really dug into understood that, you know, we were all just buying a bunch of vapor. If it changes that, I think that that would be great. I think what they're really buying here as you take a look at it is very clear from the, as you said, 25 million for the podcast. Clearly, they didn't break 25 million for the podcast, right? It's just part of this deal, but a great incredible marketing move to like, you know, preempt this deal with that news. I think they're buying Kobe, >> you know, and I I don't know if he's worth $375 million or not, but a very powerful voice obviously in the industry. And so, if you're getting a

platform that is I'm not, by the way, I'm not discounting the value of the platform itself, but you know, a lot of people look at this like they probably could have gotten it for 50 million or 100 million. How did you arrive at the price of 375? I'm imagining that they paid a premium because they get exceptional marketing voice as well as a part of the deal who will be, you know, a cheerleader and obviously who will be uh sort of fogghorn megahorn for talking about this constantly. I think that it's great if this helps eliminate some of that grift that you talked about that like there's another layer of research or due diligence that's done in some way because it's coming from Coinbase.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Generally, we had VCs that are supposed to filter out some of that grift, but then the VCs started pushing the grift on us and profiting from it. It wasn't PvP anymore and the grift wasn't coming directly from the founders. Hopefully by getting some combination of the two, the VCs plus crowdsourcing more of this funding, we do get more filters, better quality founders as the space matures. >> I mean, at the end of the day, the concept is brilliant, right? Fundraising that's crowdsourced that anyone can participate in that doesn't have accredited investor laws and isn't necessarily focused on predatory VCs, it's great. Just as you said, it has to

be used by the right founders in the right way and it should be used for things that are actually built and real and not just ideas and vaporware. >> Yeah, great call. Um, the next thing that I want to talk to you about is in this similar vein, uh, the space maturing, moving towards a more professional nature. I mean, look, we're seeing that with the Fed, uh, payments innovation conference today. We were live streaming it. I saw it. You're live streaming it as well. Very very cool to see Fed literally hosting a crypto conference. I mean, who would have thought this?

>> Yeah, it it it's I mean, it's awesome. And we're seeing a lot of RWA conversations, private credit, stable coins, all this great stuff. Um, two Goliaths when it comes to the RWA world, um, but also the DeFi world and and really two companies that are crossing the chasm here, partnered up today, Maple and A. I'm curious, what do you what do you think about this institutional DeFi wave and and RWAs and how these two worlds of Wall Street and DeFi are converging? >> I I'm pretty friendly with Sid Pal, the uh founder of Maple. We had a conversation probably last a month or two months ago, so I wasn't necessarily on top of this move, but I think that

what they're doing is incredible and is a pretty good window into this space, right? that you're going to have a lot of institutions that in various ways are holding a lot of these assets or gathering them and are going to want to put them to work, right? And the best way for them to put them to work right now, especially since we're still in the first inning of actual bank custody and yield products coming from Trady, right? I mean, we know that State Street and Bank of New York Melon and Croup, they're all coming, right? The biggest custodians in the world. And once they come and they're cussing these assets, they're going to find ways to put them to work. But right now, the best way to do that is in DeFi. And for all of the that we've gotten in the crypto industry for things breaking and

collapses and scams, DeFi smart contracts have hummed along along exceptionally well through every cycle of this market, right? I mean, your collateral goes in, you're over collateralized, you get a margin call, you get liquidated in an orderly manner for collateral that's already there. This you might be broken, but the system keeps humming. And so I I think that a has proven to be a great player in the industry. Uh extremely stable and reliable. And so I think that companies like Maple are going to offer a bridge between those institutions that are holding the money and are looking for yield or looking for loans and they're going to be able to put these things to work in a so I think it's really uh this is very early innings of this but we

will see Tradfi heavily using DeFi for yields. I I I totally agree. Um I think uh even once the custodians that you mentioned, these mega mega Wall Street custodian asset managers, even once they do get involved, they're going to go where the existing pool of liquidity is. And right now that is on a $25 billion um if not more I think on a now puts them I think in the top 50 banks worldwide. If I if I remember correctly they posted something the other day and they're just rising through the ranks uh when it comes to the the size of bank that they they are based on their assets uh uh TVL uh their assets in the

platform. I think one thing that was interesting about this partnership in particular uh if we start from the bottom of this thread to uh Maple says to start syrup USDT uh will be listed on a plasma market. Uh Maple says the deepest liquidity layer uh and the largest onchain manager are now aligned. What do you think about plasma and what do you think about uh Maple choosing to deploy this partnership on Plasma originally? be quite honest, I wish I could give you a better answer, but I haven't dug deep enough in it to speak about it intelligently and I don't want to make something up.

>> Nope. No problem. Obviously, her, you know, I'm aware of it, but I can't really get into the nuance of why they would have chosen that specifically versus any other platform with a can just say that uh if that's where they chose to go, there's definitely a good reason because these guys all know what they're doing. >> Yeah, I totally agree. I think a is one of the like pure class acts out there. Uh I believe the A token R ro rose about 10% on the news. This was before the market started ripping uh just a few hours ago and and could be up even more now. Um Mabel says the network of allocators and borrowers represents billions in deployable capital seeking stable scalable returns and deep liquidity. Through this partnership, A unlocks access to that demand and

reinforces its position as the leading lending protocol in DeFi. This is just two two mega Goliaths uh now partnering up and doing the steward the the stewardship and the pioneering into Wall Street to bring these guys onchain which is really really cool to see. Asset management redefined built on ERC7621 standardize how you launch, manage and trade onchain baskets. This is Alvara the standard for onchain asset management. Habachi provable trade purps with speed and security. Earn rewards.

Visit hibbachi.xyz. Trading on fire. >> And so, how do you think Wall Street and institutional finance is going to make their assets go to work? Just something that you mentioned earlier, once these these guys get assets in their custody, they're going to put them to work and and you know, program them uh so that they can get some yield and they can they can you know make a spread on the custody of these assets. You know, previously this has been done kind of offchain behind the scenes lending out. Micro Strategy does this offchain to get some Bitcoin yield. Do you think they're going to deploy some or all of the assets that they have

under custody? Are we going to see it like the Ethereum ETFs and DATs? They're going to just stake it or what? How do you think they're going to deploy these assets? I >> I think it's going to depend. I think custodians have a whole other level of laws and regulations that they need to follow by and I don't think they can yolo into a with other people's assets that they're supposed to be keeping custodi. So, I doubt that they'll be able to put them to work in that way. I would say that when you look at the huge custodians, it'll probably be in line with whatever they've done with traditional assets. I think the story there is that Bitcoin and crypto assets, at least the ones at the top, will be treated just like everything else in someone's portfolio and by these custodians. And before SAB 121 was

recently overturned after Gendler left office, they weren't even allowed to custody assets without having cash on the other side of the balance sheet to offset it. So, it was literally impossible for them to do it. And interestingly, as they tried to kill the industry by doing things like that, they actually handed Coinbase the custody of every single ETF because those ETF issuers like Black Rockck couldn't go to their trusted custodians because of this rule. So, it actually ended up shooting them in the foot and giving cryptonative custodians like Coinbase the bulk of the business when it came to ETFs.

Obviously, the banks freaked out. They overturned SAB 121 and now they can custody these assets like anything else. But imagine I mean what that means for people to understand if BMY Melon or State Street wanted to custody a hundred billion dollars in Bitcoin at that time they would have had to raise a hundred billion in cash to offset it on the other side of the balance sheet and nobody would be insane if they even could to to do something like that. So they were basically liabilities, right? And so now they're assets like anything else. And how does that I guess the I think the more interesting question is how does that trickle down to the consumer? Like how they'll put it to work. I don't know. I think that institutions that don't have that same custodial laws will just, you know, use normal lending and

borrowing and may even go into DeFi and all these things. But what what really matters is for like a boomer or some wealthy person who has a Charles Schwab or JP Morgan account and now that we know that on Schwab and JP Morgan and Morgan Stanley very soon you'll be able to hold these assets spot you know Bitcoin and ETH you'll be able to trade them and then they'll just be treated as a part of your portfolio that you can take a security loan against. That's the real unlock here because wealthy people don't sell things. take loans against them and those loans are at much lower yields than you see on the tape for the 10-year treasuries. I mean, I think on Robin Hood, even right now, you can use Bitcoin and Ethereum next to your stocks and get a four to 5% loan. Um, when you

can just have Bitcoin bulked in with all of the other assets on your investing platform and take a loan against it in mass, that's where things get really, really interesting because a everybody's going to want to do it and b there's going to be a hell of a lot less selling pressure. >> Right. >> Right now, if you want to really capitalize on your Bitcoin, you either have to take a loan in, you know, DeFi or one of these platforms, but there's still, you know, 10, 12, nine really high pretty much uh interest rates. Imagine when that's thrown into your portfolio and you're getting four or five percent against it. Everybody's gonna do that. Nobody's gonna be selling.

>> Yep. And the administration has already outlined um proposals to to to include crypto assets on a customer's balance sheet when they go to get a mortgage. And so, you're absolutely right. If someone were to look at buying a house uh and they have a a significant portion of their net worth in crypto, they would have to sell it in order to to go finance the house. Um I think now also >> not even to finance to qualify and you might not end up getting the house even now that you've sold your assets. So yeah, it's wild.

>> Yep. And I think this is also it speaks to the money printer and this goes back to the debasement trade with gold and bitcoin all the things that we're talking about which is really one of the drivers of this movement in general is how money is created and we're seeing money be created at multiple levels of the system. We see it obviously when you know there's appropriations in the white house and congress they print money to finance some of these social programs. But there's also this concept of the money multiplier. As regional and commercial banks print loans, these guys are extending credit and that is how money is created. Oh, Scott, did we lose you?

>> Oh, I think we're >> Okay, we're still here. Um, >> I hope I'm here. >> Yeah, >> I'm enjoying listening to you. I don't know if you can see me, but I could definitely I can see you now. Um and so and and so this is all an extension of credit as we can create um loans and and we use more of these assets as collateral. We can we can use this money multiplier to the effect of uh extending credit in the ecosystem. And this is generally going to be quite friendly to asset prices. Another point that I want to bring to you uh is something that uh Chris Waller, a Federal Reserve governor, just said at this conference this morning, uh which is that they're starting to close the gap between these stable coin issuers and the Fed. Uh he

said that the Federal Reserve is now looking into payment accounts that would grant crypto and fintech companies access to Fed payment rails. I looked a little bit more into this. It would mean that stable coin issuers could hold cash at the Fed, Tether, US, effectively be a bank. Exactly. And no longer have to go through an intermediary bank that has a title eight and has an account at the Fed in order to acquire these treasuries. Again, disintermediate these guys that are just rent seeking somewhere in the middle. Previously, they were providing a service, but now we have the technology where we can just provide that service to everybody and we can we can start to bring these guys closer into the banking system and and ultimately make their make this capital a lot more efficient

and give a lot more access to stable coin issuers. I'm just generally curious about how you're thinking about the integration of Wall Street and crypto at the largest scale as we bring crypto companies closer and closer to the money printer itself. How do you think stable coin companies are going to continue to grow and distribute the dollar AC over over the world and acquire treasuries and distribute this uh over the world? >> The irony is so incredibly thick, isn't it? That uh the whole point of crypto a of Bitcoin was as a cash to cash, you know, a peer-to-peer cash that was going to disintermediate third parties and we're going to eliminate the toll

collectors and institutions in the middle. And now the institutions we are trying to eliminate are trying to use this to eliminate other institutions in the middle. Um and uh it's just crazy to watch. And I think the other irony is that dollarized crypto aka sta stable coins, you know, crypto dollars, which Bitcoin was created as a hedge against fiat uh debasement that arguably the best use case for the technology has been hyperdollization basically to make dollars faster and cheaper to move and easier to access all over the world. So that I think that it's worth noting all that irony. That said, like the only way Bitcoin and

crypto get to the top is to power through and that means co-opting or taking over all of the systems, right? And this at the very end of the day, stable coins are just a better way to do business for all of them, right? Right. So, it's either you're going to be Blockbuster and Kodak and deny that there's going to be, you know, digital cameras and and uh streaming or you're going to have to find a way to slow things down enough that you can actually capture some of the value or integrate this technology yourselves. And I think that that's what's happening here. I mean, I my friend Kate Mong has to be scratching her head, screaming over at Custodia Bank where she got rejected for a Fed master account multiple times and has been suing the Fed for exactly these

things. And now you just see them flippantly kind of mentioning it uh in a conference or you know in a in a round table. But this is the f future like stable coins are faster, they're cheaper, you don't need a third party, you don't need permission and they spread dollars all over the world. So what scares me here slightly obviously is this is just inching ever so close to a central bank digital direct deal with Euro to EC which we know would give them ultimate controlled money supply. >> They've outright said that this is going in that direction. They they've openly spoken about how central bank digital currencies are are great for transparency,

right, and consumer protection. Like anytime the government starts talking about protecting us for our own good, that's when the libertarian in me just wants to just just explode out. Scott, thanks so much, man. Uh tons of material here. I think this is one that uh everyone can dig through and they can go back into and and really learn a lot. We're going to have clips rolling uh over the next couple days uh because we covered so much. So, we'll send those your way and uh absolute pleasure. Would love to have you on again soon. >> Anytime. Thanks so much.

>> Cheers, Scott. See you next time.