S7 Ep. 7 - Reimagining Nations: Vit Jedlička Talks Liberland & The Power Of DAOs

Transcript

why he just didn't abolish the the custom process at all like why do we want to collect 3 four 5% it's not that a major part of the revenue but it's a terrible destruction when it comes to International Trade so would you mind like maybe describing liberant to people like to our listeners like how it started and what uh liberland it's uh actually about kind of need recognition from other uh nation states to like officially become a nation like for nation you really for you really need to have a nationalist movement uh and it's independent from the country itself so there are many nations like you know like the Jews were a nation without a country for many years and then they decided to kind of go back to where they

were kicked out in definition of micronation that it's not being taken seriously by the neighbors or by the hosting State because usually micr naations get to be created within some existing state somebody claims that their bedroom is a new country no but we've got all these stupid governmental programs high taxes stupid regulation all around the place and then we're destroying our wealth and the wealth especially of our children welcome to the green pill. network podcast if you're just joining us we're building a coordination a network Society of thousands of hackers dreamers and doers using crypto to bring positive sum digital systems to the world this podcast features the people who are doing it and we publish a season of 5 to

10 episodes every couple months this season is is about how to Dow I am releasing a book with my co-author hon car who is also a dow native person and we are really excited about helping people find prosperity and to help them thrive in the frontier for time in Memorial people have gone to the frontier in order to find new prosperity new opportunities and our generation's Frontier is the internet we want to teach people about the future of dows the future of Internet coordination and this season of how to Da is all about how do we do that how do we Dow how do we find more prosperity in the internet Frontier and this guest season of five to 10 episodes is going to be about how

to Dow um the next voices that you'll hear will be myself or my guest co-host punar talking about how to Da hope you enjoy this season see you peace welcome to the how to Da podcast brought to you by Green pill. Network in this episode I sit down with vka the Visionary behind liberland a micronation advocating for freedom and minimal State intervention we were both born into former Czechoslovakia and that shaped our early lives V has embarked on a remarkable journey to establish liberland an unclaim piece of land between Croatia and Serbia and I started moving to

create more Sovereign organizations on chain together we will explore how this Venture in into libertarian governance challenges traditional Notions of statehood and uses technology to empower its citizen whe it's great to have you here welcome it's great to be with you so we both grew up in h former Czechoslovakia now uh CIA I think we call it these days how that influence uh your life like do you think like actually growing up in uh check uh was like one of the reasons why you started the new nation and of course

the pendum of Liberty swinging from one side to another and is these 40 Years of Communism in Czech Republic were I would say pretty stupid time of Czech history just just one one example for for all right like Austria didn't have communism they just let the social democratic government for these 40 years and they managed to outgrow C Czechoslovakia at the time two times so the communism was destructive the half of the economy actually went into way everybody could have been two at least two times more wealthy two times more I would say even probably happy and then they were under communism and and this this crazy system was perpetuated by

majority of society for most of these years and yes it kind of influenced me it taught me that people some sometimes times don't make the right choices when it comes to their own governance that that the Democracy also might not be the best solution for our problems and that uh that there could be a major shift and that we can actually do much more that was my my big point that we could do much more if we fix these systems even further and that was basically my the rest of my NE another 20 years of of striving for more freedom or 15 years uh when I actually established in 2010 a organization called reform CZ uh which had more than

20 million views on its different video channels uh teaching people about Liberty and my my aim was always to turn Czech Republic more into Singapore by way I also give you a nice number for Singapore there was it wasn't happening right there was not enough uh drive towards making Czech Czech Republic at the time Freer than than what RAV Claus did turned it into Social Democratic kind of state according to the German model so there is a nice number also from Singapore Singapore used to be six times poorer when I was born than czechoslovak people are living in Czechoslovakia and now people in living in Singapore are six times richer than

than than the average Czechoslovakia right so you can see directly how the form of government has a a very powerful impact on the way that people are living and we are not talking even about like multiple Generations it's one generation jump you know if I lived in Singapore and if if we turn Czechoslovakia into Singapore imagine how how amazing the society would be no but we've got all these stupid governmental programs high taxes stupid regulation all around the place and then we're destroying the wealth of ours our wealth and the wealth especially of our children because of course everything is kind of exponential

and if you cut the exponential at the very beginning you don't get much at the end that's so much true and like maybe on the example of Singapore compared to Czech Republic before we get uh into like the nation you actually created do you think like the main difference there is like that uh you know Singapore like has way more like economic freedoms uh for it citizens and like actually you know empowering people to do like new business ventures and support supporting them in it rather than like kind of be more like I would say on those restricting side like uh you know there are too many rules to and Hoops to jump through to do any type of business yeah and they're not stupid you know the first thing that they did when they

established Singapore was completely abolish all the Customs yeah how many other countries did that like very little or I don't even know about any other country it's just like a reasonable smart move to make your Society richer fire all the people working at the customs and and and get zero Customs for all the goods and services and then just start making free trade with others right so I mean even even the president of Georgia is was very funny the other day another side of story when I met him the sarash that he was running I would say one of the major social reforms basically is it 10 years ago now when he did that uh in Georgia maybe

even more and he was talking about the other day I was with him in a Mexico on a conference and he was saying that in order for him to get rid of the corruption he tried to fire three times everybody at the customs and then the only solution was to hire super models uh to work at customs in order to get rid of corruption you know just let them stem stuff uh but why even him why he just didn't abolish the the custom process at all like why do we want to collect three four five% it's not that Ma a major part of the revenue but it's a terrible destruction when it comes to International Trade so and of course Singapore has zero or very old taxes in many areas and uh and

regulations are reasonable despite quite out authoritarian regime and it comes to personal freedoms you know people can actually do their business and I'm also right wink libertarian I don't care too much about making sex in public I actually care more about making business in public as as my own priority yeah like uh free trade and you know I think it's important and I'm definitely aligned with dead values uh you know Adam Smith on or frederck bashad they all kind of like you know already said it like um 100 years ago uh basically that the free trade will be just uh better better for us but it

doesn't seems that the nations are moving that Direction especially the big ones uh CU like now uh we have new Administration coming up uh in the United States where I am based and they seems to be like really focused on tariffs and like basically like making international trade even worse like what's your kind of view on that that the big Nations actually like going that direction do you think like this is really bad for us as a society as the hall or what will be the outcome there I think it's just stupid it's going to harm Americans first of all but but you know I understand Trump he's using it

kind of as a power tool but I don't think at the end he's going to actually impose those tariffs uh but but he's using it as a kind of geopolitical tool let's hope that the Dodge commission where our citizen Ron pole should be one of the primary players will actually be able to change things for better in United States so of of course if Elon Musk presides it I just hope that that really he's going to get rid of couple of stupid bureaucratic institution and and lower some taxes somewhere but we'll see we'll see these guys will have another four years to go or or so so let's hope for the best and I'm also hoping that this kind of relationship where our citizens are becoming part of

the uh us Administration you know that that these kind of moves will also lead to better recognition of of liberland in United States and abro I feel like this Administration has kind of some libertarian wipes to it so that might be actually good for liberant as a as a nation to get a bigger recogn uh recognition so I touch upon it a little bit in the intro but would you mind like maybe describing liberant to people like to our listeners like how it started and what uh liberland it's uh actually about well it started in 2015 I mean it actually started when I read the book by feric bastia the law which really got me on the journey um and it's a great book

right like at the very beginning there is this call for action there's something perverted with the law instead of protecting people's property it's used to rip them off and uh and I was thinking yeah this actually really the essential problem like we're making regulations that are not helping us to survive but they're very much disturbing the the the normal flow of of business which which is strange why we are building these societies which which really are destructive so at that point I just decided I'm going to do my best to educate people about what needs to be these societies into free societies but at some point also realized that it's not going to be enough my life is simply not too long enough to make some sort of

Major Impact over the way that people think because it's literally multigenerational problem and if you even realize that people were able to sust and support stupid systems like uh like communism in Czechoslovakia for 40 years then you realize really you need some sort of more radical approach and one of those approaches was instead of instead of choosing politicians through elections was to start choosing the voters for a new jurisdiction right so that's what we are at we we are just about to pass a citizenship law in liberland we were been like taking on citizen without proper

regulations now we will have a reasonable regulation for onboarding new citizens in liberland and yes liberland is a startup country we've got now 767,000 people that apply for citizenship and uh and it's a Libertarian country we won't believe in very limited government basically the same idea as like founding fathers of United States states should only take care of Justice security and diplomacy and leave the rest to the private sector but we also believe we can do better than founding fathers which is of course quite ambitious but we believe we could combine some of the good elements of democracy with some elements of corporate governance with the rep

elements of Republic so we're Republic because we're limiting the government what it can do and what it cannot do quite strictly we are democracy because majority of citizens can actually vetle any law but we don't let majority to pass any new laws but you just let them destroy laws or regulations or even remove people that they don't like so nobody in liberland will be will be governing liberland against the will of majority of citizens and then we've got a corporate governance element which I believe is really something for that was for some strange reason has never really taken off with any country I wish there was even more written about that that problem but really like interestingly enough no country

right now is running as a corporation or there are some like one owner entities like kingdoms but nothing in the middle right like that the people could literally become shareholders of their own country and sometimes some political scientists are referring to democracies as a sharehold shareholding structure where you have one share one one vote which is kind of true but it's strange why would everybody should have one vote no matter how beneficial or dist itive are there to the society so we established a system of meritocracy a system where people that contribute more to the state budget that pay more in the voluntary tax system that we have get more say in the

elections which I think is a reasonable concept it's it's a it's a I think right way to go for the future and in combination of these elements of democratic elements as well as Republican elements we really are about to establish of the most reasonable and efficient ways for governance and the fact that we actually launched the first elections and it was quite successful and attracted some really exciting people I think is a a testimony to it yeah and like uh we will get to the elections and the results of the elections uh very soon but before we get there what you were describing and you know this podcast is called how to Da so

da decentralized autonomous organizations and what you've been describing it really reminds me how we are running Dows on blockchain and you know I've been talking to a couple other like governance experts and you know they said the same like we want people to be able to propose uh rules and like run with it in a sense but if the majority really don't like it they can V to it but they don't have the power to like operation stuff but like really just like if it's something really demolishes to uh take it down so my question here is like if you are kind of almost behaving like a d are is it liberland also like on blockchain or

using blockchain for its operations yes we've built a custom blockchain based on substrate so everything that that we're talking about even though the Constitution is written in a draft form we should don't even need it because like I would say 90% of the most important element of the governance are actually built into the smart contract that is governing our society so right now by passing some extra like regulations things will be much clearer but what we could actually put into smart contract we already did so we've got two Chambers the Chamber of the Congress and Senate and we've got a president we've got prime minister we've got Minister of Finance Minister of

interior Etc and all of these things are actually put on blockchain so we are the first ever nation state governance that is running itself as a decentralized autonomous organization or decentralized autonomous government which I think is more appropriate but I think there's going to be much more to come I think again that that since we launched it very recently we just need to give it little bit little bit time now it's going to take off quite nicely in the coming month and there was a very difficult decision to make you know should we actually launch it on our custom chain or should we build it as a smart contract on some on some existing platform we actually did a decision to

build it on custom chain because we felt like if if we have a Sovereign Nation we should have a s Sovereign software running it and U even though we still have a quite a bit of debate especially now with the Justin Sun's involvement where he would like to see liberland running on some platform like ethereum or Tron uh but uh but I think it's it's a right decision of course it comes with a little bit more responsibility for the security of the chain Etc but I believe also that the decision to to utilize substrate was a correct one because it was really technically it was the closest to governments we wanted to see so it didn't meant complete restructuring of the codebase and also quite easy for Citizens now to run the

notes uh so the nation is taking care of the network out of itself oh nice so basically the notes are already decentralized because the citizens are running them is that correct me there is around 50 citizens that are running the notes so I think the network is quite robust already and the cool thing is that we do get updates for the core of the software from from poad dos and which is fairly big ecosystem uh so we don't have to worry too much about the maintenance of of the basic uh structure of it yeah and like you know it's all about sovereignty so I understand uh the way you uh you went and I hope it will work for you but also you know uh in blockchains you are very

interoperable so if there will be time uh there you need to transition to ethereum it probably won't be that hard either and you mentioned Justin sun and some people might know it's a founder of Tron very famous figure in the crypto space just recently bought some uh paint think I don't know if you can quite painting but uh you can probably Google it uh yeah a piece of art you know banana stuck on the wall by way we have a plan to move it to liberland now that's going to be fun um yeah so that was the most expensive banana ever $6.2 million that he paid for it and he made quite a bit of headlines with that it

was just like uh two weeks later after his election in D he made a quite a bit of headlines with the the of course being elected in the first election quite a nice to work with him the other thing that he did was also that he sent $30 million recently to Trump defi project and and triggered a $15 million payout for for trumps so I think it's a kind of good prime minister to have and yes it's it's also a fact that that half almost half of the stable coin trading has moved to Tron globally it's amazingly centralized now with with his blockchain and he has kind of won the bundle where the trading with the stable coins will be happening of course he has

to have some sort of special skill to do that but of of course it was the the low fees for long time and popularity easy like easy accessibility that allowed him to to get quite popular like that and now is getting enormously Rich by by simply the trading fees because now they went up to like seven8 Dollar on throne but there are millions of them happening every day uh and and really he is still major controller of the network in that sense and many of the fees are going into his pockets so he can buy bananas all day long but like what's the biggest value for laborland as a nation to have like someone who is you know plenty of

capital also famous to have their own blockchain like what you are expecting from like prime minister of such a caliber to do for uh liberant as a nation well first all like Throne itself is a quasi Sovereign entity right so it has its own forign Ministry and develops relations with other nations the other day they managed to pass a law in Panama which stated that thr is a legal tender in Panama which was later under the pressure of us and constitutional Court revoked but like they're able to like you know do you understand like it's

it's all almost almost at this level of of nation state pressure that they can extort on other countries for their benefit I believe but um so so it's it's kind of nice to now share the the people that are doing this kind of stuff for thr and I would say it's one of the biggest additions of course the fact that that he probably right now is the richest prime minister ever to serve on planet Earth in liberland is also quite cool if you think about it right so that that's also so very very exciting to to have I mean the first the first ever decentralized autonomous organizations Alex the the the richest prime minister in the history of of planet Earth uh or

may I think at least in top 10 I was looking into it a little bit like different different values different metrics but it's also difficult to to say how much what is the net worth of just in Sun currently because everything jumped up two times three times anyway so I but I think it it really Pro the concept and uh and we will see what what will happen with Justin also we are in rounds of negotiations what things he could do of course he could Finance the whole creation of the country himself right now right so just one of our thousand citizens could literally build a whole new State uh but we we're going to smartly utilize his connections and his ideas to to do things and in laborland basically with introduction of prime

minister I as a president lost many of the executive powers and when we launch the the the Constitution properly basically the Prime Minister will be the one that will set the agenda and president will only be able to disapprove some of the decisions by the Prime Minister we are kind of getting used to it as well but we will see really how much time will Justin be able to dedicate to it but right now he nominated some people to help us set the set the tone for next next rounds of development of liberland and we are working for now for example together on DeVos we're making sure that both throne and liberland are properly represented

there and that that is going to be a big thing and then we do have a toura across different parliaments you know around Europe for now but we will probably expand to more around the globe uh and we are working on introducing the concept of using blockchain for the nation state governance together with thr I think it's also very nice natural partnership it's a win-win situation like thron is showing on an example of liberland to the Nations State parliaments around the world how things can operate efficiently and without bureaucracy and super cheap as well right our elections cost literally like $10 to organize on our chain and it's it's quite like much more secure than

any other systems that were in place but it reminds me actually we did help Liberia to organize elections they were not running it on on blockchain but the commissions were noting the results for their elections into the blockchain platform that we provided them so we are help already exporting these kind of stuff across the globe nice so this is actually super cool that you as a nation basically building stuff which you can then like almost spin off as a business ventures so it can fund the nation itself and there are some examples of small Nations similar things this is super cool actually I talked to my friend Josh recently he's a founder of uh new project uh called president Dow

and they basically are trying to like uh you know vote for the next president like in the 40 years uh through a dow uh mechanism but one of the things uh he mentioned on our call was like you know we had this rules for election because of the technology back then like you need to take a and you need to go to Washington it will take you three days getting there then you vote and then you go back another three days and we still keep the same rules even though the technology now it's like instant and super cheap as as you said like the election cost like couple dollars it's basically zero uh at this point and it can be super safe and

super secure so maybe just like one thing to iterate on this like what do you would recommend Nations like how to get from this current you know form of government like more like the T like voting uh technology to the new blockchain uh technology do you think it's like hard for them or like what would what would you recommend as a first step and should they be worried about it or just like accept it well to be honest with you I think the most reasonable way to go forward and how they can really spin off great Prosperity is simply taking of of economic zones out of their territory

just like Dubai did with the IFC and and simply start running a liberland like governance on that on that property right and uh and they could they will they will do two things they will like concentrate the wealth and prosperity in one spot but it will have a nice overflow into existing country and it can be done almost instant instantaneously so like of course laborland is just seven square kilometers but you can create laborland anywhere on the planet right it's just a a decision by one of the 200 governments to free up some space for some prosperity and and the benefit you know that that those countries could gain by becoming by being still keeping large

portion of the shares of such an entity like a new quasi sovereign state with an existing state could be enormous like they they could literally make a lot of money money without extorting people by just becoming shareholders of a piece of land where the where the legal system has become uh extremely free and uh right now we do have this great Advantage with liberland that like 99% of governments are quite stupid so we will we have this Edge that even though we we we have a very hard situation at the beginning we're still expanding at 30% Pace a year but if you if you manage to cut off a exit in piece of land under without any problems because it would be

like a sovereign decision of existing government the expansion that would be or the prosperity that would be created on that particular spot would be enormous and it's to me it's really strange why why other the governments are not actually doing this so I'm working with two governments on similar project but somehow it always kind of reaches that end and there these guys with free private cities that are trying to do something and there is prospera that just recently got cancelled right so there is this great resentment by this existing establishment to do it so that's why we're pushing with liberal and from grounds up uh to build it without any approvals without any politicians involved because we are building it as a

fresh new nation yeah like on that on that uh approval side and the you know new nation like to become a nation if I'm like understanding correctly you kind of need recognition from other uh nation states to like officially become a nation like for nation you really for you really need to have a nationalist movement and it's independent from the country itself so there are many nations like you know like the Jews were a nation without a country for many years and then they decided to kind of go back to where they were kicked out and um so that that's completely you know it's it's not connected nation is something else than the country but on the other hand the

you have to you can have a country by the way the Mont videoo criteria States very clearly what you need to do to get a country and it one of the things is that the existence of a state or of the country is independent from recognition by other states the Mont criteria is very clear about that you only need to fulfill four criterias you have to have permanent population you have to have uh capacity to govern capacity to enter into relation and Define territory uh so these four elements are basically enough to have a country because countries exist without like somal land for example exist for many years 27 years or something now without a recognition by

Foreign government yet they're running their business completely on their own they're in control of the territory they do have a permanent population of course and now Trump Administration I think will recognize them next year but it took quite a while you know but all these guys really didn't have any proper passports to travel around with it's like five million people people living in a desert there but but their country for some reason didn't get any International recognition whatsoever so with liberland of course the nation building Journey as well as and by the way we consider all people that applied for citizenship our Nationals so we are now by no means a micro nation it's already almost 700,000 people it is

bigger than Malta for example and Malta is not considered a micr nation we are scattered all around the world and yes we only have 1,200 citizens roughly right now so we are a small country with small number of citizen but if you go talk about liberland using the term micronation is not appropriate it might be a micro State uh but definitely not a micronation and by the way micronation definition of micronation that it's not being taken seriously by the neighbors or by the hosting State because usually migr Nations get to be created within some existing state somebody claims that their bedroom is a new country which I don't think liberal really falls into that category yet yet

you know we are described like as the the most known uh example of a micro nation but no that's not true we are we are a I would say most notoriously known example of a startup country right now and anyway even Croatia now calls us actually a par State they no longer use any other description they they understand we are a state structure lacking International recognition so in terms of like liberland as a startup country so the country status you already achieve uh that country status if I'm from the description if I understand correctly or we do we do have permanent settlement we

do have uh the territory well very very well Define it doesn't overlap with any other countries it's between Croatia and Serbia it's 7 square kilometers it's not claimed by neither Croatia nor Serbia Serbia stated they don't mind creation of liberland on this territory already Croatia said that this is Serbia so we've got a conflict with Croatia which is kind of funny because they claim no no no this is not liberland this is Serbia but Serbia doesn't care uh and this is the situation that we are we are in with with Croatia we we did achieve that that kind of international recognition we also managed to open up quite a bit of in uh diplomatic relations all across the world we did quite I was on official state visit to El Salvador right we've got a

very nice relations with Argentina by the way president of Argentina was running on a platform that he's a general from liberland coming to save Argentina from socialist so that was his campaign I said liberon will have no standing army but then somebody Al himself as a general and then takes over an existing country in one election right it's kind of funny so we do export already these ideas abroad uh and uh and we we are able to of course have a diplomatic relation with other countries I met the president of Croatia as well you know and it was a nice meeting unfortunately the relations with the

with the creation other state officials might not be that great but we're working on improving them nice nice uh is there any like States you feel like you have really strong connection to like they are like the biggest supporters of yours or you know any individuals like that well I just mentioned a couple and to be honest with you like I don't want to mention too much more because graa really actually takes us seriously and they do follow all all our steps what we make and they try to break things so I mean we recently went on a diplomatic mission to Liberia and somehow you know graa right after our visit immediately jumped in and

established an embassy there even though they didn't even recognize each other with with Liberia so for for they they had very little diplomatic relations with between the two countri so they do follow us and they understand this is a bit of a race and of course it's like that it's like that with Taiwan right like Taiwan is getting himself recognized and China jumps in gives them more money no don't recognize him then taian jumps back in gives them give the establishment more money and so it's kind of funny but it's about making friends it's about like also showing the bigger picture right like liberland really is more than it's about the piece of land which is there is a plenty of it

it's really about the idea of building an ideal state with ideal form of administration and that idea itself is so powerful and I think I already got it to the stage when even if I just disappeared right now all the governance mechanisms already in place and the go is set so laborland will be established properly as a state even without my presence it's just a matter of time and this is this is super cool and like this is what we are kind of uh building I would say in crypto at large like like very Sovereign kind of almost uh self- sustainable type of businesses or organizations and you achieve that on like a nation level uh which is just uh

pressive well like I think we are like getting like little uh towards the end of the podcast but like I would like also like some call to action basically like how people can like learn more about uh you know liberland or even become the citizen or supporter I know you have like embassies uh all over the world I think you have like hundreds of embassies uh which is I I would say helpful know quite nice places I mean our Washington DC Embassy is like nier than I would say 80% of Washington DC embassies for example got really nice office in pra and and building one now in Belgrade and and we're present all around the world with quite nice people

and there is this new mobile app by the way that leads you through on boarding process also for citizenship any residency but if you jump just jump on the website uh you will immediately get this big button become Citizen and you can just follow it there are basically two path out three passo to become citizen one is to become the minimum shareholder and and acquire 5,000 marriage basically and with that you can run the master node of liberland as well so you can run the validator and and become active part of the polity of of liberland becoming voter with all what it means but we do have also like a second grade citizenship as well you can also become citizen by living in liberland uh and you don't need to

collect 5,000 merits or stake 5,000 merits but you will get the merits as much as you have contributed but at the same time you can also get the passport but you will have to Simply pay a little bit more taxes in liberland to have a full full say and I don't believe many people will not join liberland because they they want to vote you know when many just like with Monaco people are not going there to vote they don't even get the vote in three generations they're coming there actually to live free life so that's why we have kind of two paths to to citizenship uh one is by doing something useful for uh the government and right now it is settlement we need to have more grip more people living there even though the

conditions are quite difficult but it's fun also it's quite a nice Adventure it's a it's a huge reality TV show basically living in the in the wilderness right now and building buildings despite some oppression from Catia and living on house boats and quite nice people are getting together for that and again it it really takes like five minutes to go through the process and first you basically to become IR resident and with that you just can go directly for citizenship and we have had the nice ceremonies I just came out of pra where we had a quite nice citizenship ceremony quite a few new citizens were giving their passports during the ceremony and quite a few media were there as well as present well I actually did not uh

start my citizenship but now I feel like I should get there so we will definitely link all all this uh web site and the app in the show notes so you can also explore your citizenship off with this was amazing I L love our discussion and you know I'm I'm really happy that like how to doubt it's kind of going a little bit with liberland together that we had already some you know conference together and now we have this podcast and I hope you know the Dow movement and the liberland movement and network State movement is just like going very nicely together and we just will be changing the world uh for or better so uh thanks again for coming on this podcast let's

do it let's do it then we would love to see you in liberland we've got big party for New Year's Eve and then major event for the 10th anniversary of liberland that will be the 13th of April you shouldn't miss that one nice so some Alpha here at the end of the podcast thank you thank you appreciate amazing thank you for tuning into to how to Da if you are excited about the future of dows as we are don't forget to check our book how to Dow ailable on Amazon and for those looking for something special visit how toow doxyz to grab a limited fare Edition version with an NFD that unlocks some very exclusive perks and if you want to dive even

deeper we just launched our six week course on Dows back with actionable insight and expert guidance so get a book follow us on social media join our community and we will guide you through the fascinating world of decentralized autonomous organizations until next time keep building keep ding [Music]