RPC Standards #37

Transcript

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Oh, sorry. Hello? I was on mute.

Chase Wright: Hello.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: and everyone… Mmm… So, I don't know, is… I'm sharing my screen, I hope I'm… don't know. I should be sharing.

Chase Wright: It's all good.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Okay. Good afternoon, welcome to RPC Call 37. Should we wait a little longer, or we can just go ahead?

Chase Wright: Yeah, I don't know who's gonna show up. I think the ACDT call is going long, so the execution client devs are in a breakout, so… They're probably not coming today.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Okay, okay.

Ahmad Wilson: The continuation for the execution? Is that… one of them just wrapped up.

Chase Wright: Oh, okay.

Ahmad Wilson: Okay, I wasn't.

Chase Wright: Maybe. I left a little early, so… so maybe it's done, I don't know.

Ahmad Wilson: Okay, no doubt. They had just broken up, and then the Consensus one, I'm not sure about, but… Yeah, the execution one definitely wrapped up. Anyway, what is it now, 3 minutes in? So, when do we usually start, like… Do people have 3 to 5 minutes or so, or… or what?

Chase Wright: Yeah, I don't care. I think we probably should get started.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Yeah, we can just start. So looking at the meta issue. I think we have almost everything we need, just some few 915, 921, and one of the one.

Chase Wright: Yeah, so last week, I… I merged a whole bunch of stuff, and… while doing that, I discovered a few more issues, I… none of them are what I would consider blocking, but they are… interesting issues that… that are causing some failures, so I've opened… even more additional PRs and stuff to, and client teams to… to get some of that fixed. So, I'm not… I'm not ready to… to cut a release, like, there's still some stuff under the should fix before V1 that… that we need to, need to address. But for the most part, everything's going pretty good. Now that Amsterdam chain is, is pushed, like, that unblocked a whole bunch of stuff. So I've been going through this meta issue, pretty significantly last week, opened some more, closed out a bunch of stuff.

So yeah, and then, if you look at the latest Hive tests, like, the percentage didn't really change very much. I know Erigon has, like, one open PR that caused them to have a failure, But, yeah, so the upgrade to Amsterdam chain is… is finally done. And that's… that's about it.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Okay, but… You said you're not ready to cut a release, I'm not sure I get…

Chase Wright: Yeah, so, I mean, under the should Fix Before 1, there's still some stuff that is… That is… that is open. So, like, it's not blocked, but I'm also not in a huge hurry to cut a release, especially with all the Amsterdam stuff still… still out there. I don't know. It's just my opinion.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Okay. just that we are not going to cut a release now, but the remaining issues we have are not blocking. It's not going to block us to cut a release in the future. If they are still yet undone.

Chase Wright: Yeah, yeah, okay.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Okay. So this…

Ahmad Wilson: So really quickly, regarding the stuff that should be fixed before V1, so they're not blocked, so would you say it's safe for anyone to pick them up, or they're… Any kind of, like, considerations that, would be… would make it such that, like, either you or someone who's more familiar with the issue would be able to, should pick up. I'm just wondering, like, what…

Chase Wright: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so there's… there's only… there's only a couple things that are just pending client, client PRs. The one… the one thing that is, complicated, and I've, I've, I've asked… I've asked some of the client devs, I asked Felix to take a look, I think is, is 915? And 915 is weird, because it's… it's a problem with eth_simulate, in that… Actually, it's… well, it's a problem with some of the calls, because… you can do state overrides, right, when you do, like, an eth_call or an eth_simulate, and if you do an override. To make an account empty, You get in this position where you were asking all the clients to simulate something that cannot exist on-chain.

So it's a little weird. I don't think, like, it… again, I don't think it's a blocker, because it's kind of this, like, really weird niche… Problem that would never actually exist on-chain, but it is something that you can do with a state override, so it's just… it's just weird. So… I don't know, that's kind of it.

Ahmad Wilson: Okay, cool, cool. You said that was 915, right?

Chase Wright: Yes, yeah, yeah, 915. And again, it's not… I don't think it's a blocker to cutting a release, and most of this stuff, like, in theory, I think most… no one has objected to act… to the, like, actual spec changes, it's just getting the client teams to… to merge the PRs, you know?

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Okay, but in respect to 915, you did tag Łukasz, since we have him here. Don't know if he has something to say.

Chase Wright: Why, I don't know of exact time to look at it.

Łukasz Rozmej: I looked at it,

Chase Wright: Yeah, I also talked to Felix in Discord last week, and he did say that he would take a look, because it is a really complicated problem. It's kind of a niche problem, like I said, but, I don't know, it's not a big tube.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Okay, I think we can move to… This is about the error code. We had a discussion with Sims last, call, but… I don't think there's any update on it yet. The same way it's husband. Can I skip this? And then… 8.90 and 895 are basically the same thing. And I opened a PR on Nimbus for this, so I'm not sure if they are going to review it or not, but…

Chase Wright: Yeah, that's fine. As far as… as far as I can tell, this now is basically… I mean, all of the clients that have engaged in Banteg's, spec, and… and testing are… seem to all be in alignment and agreement, and everything seems fine. In execution APIs, he is basing it on his PR of go-ethereum, which I told him to do. So… All of this rests on the Geth team now, at this point.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Yeah, that's what I wanted to know. How do we get them to match it?

Chase Wright: I mean, we can't…

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Yeah, the blocker now.

Chase Wright: But we can ask them to review it.

Łukasz Rozmej: This is bad design of… of process.

Chase Wright: Yeah, I understand, but you keep saying that, and we keep telling you why it is the Brosns.

Łukasz Rozmej: Yeah, so we can change the process.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Do we need to nudge them a little? Because the whole, the whole thing is just revolving around the Geth reviewing the PR. Is there any way around it? Hello?

Ahmad Wilson: Who are you… who are you talking to, Chase?

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Oh, I thought I dropped. Sorry.

Chase Wright: I mean, I've gone over this numerous times, and I'm not really… I don't really feel like rehashing it, like… we… we can rewrite the entire test gen in .NET, or whatever Łukasz wants to rewrite it in, and we can… kick… go-ethereum out of the… But that's just not realistic. It's not a thing that… We… we're gonna do.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: I think we have someone from go-ethereum, maybe. I really don't know.

Chase Wright: lightclient is here, but… I don't know that he's gonna… make a unilateral decision for the Geth team on this call.

Lightclient (Matt Garnett): So there's… Are we blocked on merging this 35791 PR? Is that kind of where we're at?

Chase Wright: I mean, kind of, yes,

Lightclient (Matt Garnett): Okay.

Chase Wright: I mean, go-ethereum is the only client that doesn't support the Trace namespace, and it's been that way for a decade, and… Like, the ask is that you guys implement it. And Banteg has done basically all of the work to ensure that the spec aligns with every other client. And… We… we want you guys to support it.

Lightclient (Matt Garnett): Okay, cool. The tests are filled from that branch in this execution API's PR for the tracing.

Chase Wright: Yes, correct.

Lightclient (Matt Garnett): Okay.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Alright, so the next one…

Lightclient (Matt Garnett): Alright, I'm gonna look at this today. I think it could take a bit of time for us to fully review it, because it is 4,000 lines of code, but… We'll get on it.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Oh, this is yes.

Chase Wright: Yeah, so this one is not that complicated, it's just… After upgrading to Amsterdam, I found some more, opcode tracer differences. So Get… Geth already merged the PR that… that fixes it for… for the storage on… on their side. The other… Nethermind and Besu already do it. Erigon and Reth, have… have PRs open for it. This is… more… I mean, it's kind of a… It's kind of a spec… Change, but it's more like just clarifying what happens on storage when It's reverted, in the, in the output. So… I mean, if someone wants to review the spec, verbiage, and… give it a thumbs up, that's fine, but I'm basically just waiting for the other clients to… To review and merge their PRs, and then… and then this one thing.

Pretty merged would be fine.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Okay. Then we have, 949. Which is… this issue. on… If we are going to fix the spec, or… Clients are going to make any changes. If I understand that correctly.

Chase Wright: Sorry, which one is this? 9 full width?

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: 949. The storage, snapshot.

Chase Wright: Oh, yeah, so 949 is the issue, and then 947 is the PR that fixes the issue. So we… This is just… the issue related.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Bold.

Chase Wright: Then we talked about.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Okay, this is related to the 947.

Chase Wright: Yeah.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: O. Oh, okay. Then… 941 and the 940 are just, I think, just small schema changes.

Chase Wright: Yeah.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: This should be merged.

Chase Wright: Yeah, I think so. I… actually, I approve it.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: and also 940.

Chase Wright: It's not 940?

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: 941 and then 942, they are, like, small schema changes.

Chase Wright: Okay, I'll check out 9. I'm gonna merge 941. And then, I'll check out 940, because I haven't looked at it yet, but I assume it's fine.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Okay. And also 918, 943 and 922. this… This, and this… I think they are doc-related. Yeah.

Ahmad Wilson: Yeah, the 918 was from, like, I think it was maybe, or it's related to 867. Or 667, and there was another PR that was closed, regarding data, as a property within the schema, as opposed to just input, and I… I think it was MysticRyuujin, Chase, or perhaps somebody else who left a comment regarding, The, the team typically just wanted to be, like, forward-thinking in terms of how the schemas were expressed, and it would… like, data being an optional arg. Anyway, just going through the specs myself, seems like input is the only one that's accepted for… the, generic transaction, and so… Yeah, if anyone feels that there's something off there, it's a really, really small change, but but yeah, just, I think there's a bit of context. 663. Thought we added more context and comments. Nope, that's it.

Okay, yeah. Well, yeah, it should be.

Chase Wright: Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, I agree, we shouldn't be using the old… the old one in the examples, so that's… that's fine.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Okay. He also approved 943.

Chase Wright: Wasn't on board today. just…

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: The broken, link, it's still related to the docs, yeah.

Chase Wright: Yes. Rick.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: And also, this one, I… I was trying to understand when do clients, as in new clients, get to add, to the spec. For example, Ethlambda. I understand Ethlambda is mainly for… they're building for lean ethereum. I don't know if that's changed or something, but should this PR be merged, or what's the requirements for this, if there's a requirement?

Chase Wright: Yeah, I don't… I don't… I don't know the answer to that question. Like, lightclient, do you… do you know? Like, is there any specific requirement for… Adding a client code?

Lightclient (Matt Garnett): So the requirement that we've generally followed in the past, which I don't think is, like, a hard and fast rule, but we generally defer to the official ETH EF blog posts of client releases for networks. I think that they have their own process for determining if a client should be added. So basically, like, when a new network comes out, the EF will publish a blog post that says, Glamsterdam is happening, here are the client releases, and the question is, how do you become a client? listed on that blog post. And so they kind of have their own process for figuring that out. So in general, I try to just follow what clients are currently listed.

In that… in those blog posts. Does it mean we have to follow that? But I would probably lean… Lean towards following, unless there's, like, a good reason otherwise.

Chase Wright: Yeah, I don't… I don't know. I feel like, like, is it… is it the pandas, then? Like, should we ask the pandas? Like, they do the blog post, don't they?

Lightclient (Matt Garnett): Mmm, no. I mean, this one, it… And we fired all the people that did these blog posts, so… I mean, it used to be Tim, and then it was Alex. I mean, Will Corcoran is probably… The person who will write the next blog posts. So… Maybe we can ask him what his… heuristic is these days. I would probably do that before merging this, I think, if he says it's… it's fine, or he doesn't have a specific heuristic, then we could merge it, but I think we should… ask him what he's planning to do for Glamsterdam. I mean, if he flames that he's gonna be on the Glamsterdam blog post, then we obviously will just merge his PR.

But I think if they're not going to be in the Glamsterdam blog post, then… I would probably hold off on merging this.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Okay.

Chase Wright: Put… put it on the background.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: I think, the last on the list is… okay, I opened this PR, and then I have 3 questions that… I'm not sure how we're going to go about them, but… I was planning on… I actually don't see that they are…

Lightclient (Matt Garnett): I see that ethrex is actually on the Hoodi announcement.

Chase Wright: Yeah, but this is for their… No, this is…

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: slam duh, this is the…

Lightclient (Matt Garnett): Oh, sorry.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: the ethrex.

Lightclient (Matt Garnett): Oh, God, there's so many clients. Okay, yeah. Let's see what Will has to say. If they're not on this… release, then I think I would, yeah, probably hold off.

Chase Wright: I'm just wondering if they're trying to get it there so that they can get their client into hive testing? I don't… I don't know.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: No, no, like, mostly, Ethlambda is lean ethereum, because we do run devnets for lean ethereum Grandine, Ream, Zeam.

Lightclient (Matt Garnett): What is Lean Ethereum?

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: post-quantum ethereum.

Lightclient (Matt Garnett): What?

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: What's quantum ethereum?

Ahmad Wilson: Yes, no.

Lightclient (Matt Garnett): I thought ethereum was gonna become post-quantum.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Yeah, this one.

Łukasz Rozmej: Isn't it? There's Justin Drake-led initiative that is.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Yeah.

Łukasz Rozmej: died.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Yes. No, it didn't… we're still running devnet, it's not dead dead, but like…

Łukasz Rozmej: Okay, some last legs.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: EF So, I was surprised to see the PR, so… but I understand that they made a blog post that they are making some Glamsterdam changes, which I'm not sure how… They are trying to navigate around that, so that's why I was confused about the PR, and then adding them to the spec.

Chase Wright: Yeah, like, I know that their client is showing up on the crawler, and it is showing up as, Amsterdam Ready, or Amsterdam Ready. So, I don't… I don't fully understand either. I don't know if their client is, like. pure lean ethereum target, or if they're actually targeting running the current.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Yup.

Chase Wright: campaign or not.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: I just need to deal is…

Chase Wright: term.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: They're doing the both of them, like, both Lean and then beacon chain, so… But they started the beacon chain exercise recently. No, up to a month ago.

Ahmad Wilson: Is that on the cloud link, publicly available? I'm guessing not the one that you just went to Boma?

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: No.

Ahmad Wilson: Okay.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: you know.

Ahmad Wilson: So, yeah. Sorry.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Okay, so… I guess… Accent wheel would be the best thing, because… Then, this is the lasting 900. I wanted to take this to ACDE, If that's okay. I don't know, Łukasz, you did have some points to say about this.

Łukasz Rozmej: What are we doing at eth_getLogsV2, what is that?

Ahmad Wilson: I'm sorry about… You made a comment. Before we go on, Oh yeah, really quickly, before we go on, regarding the lean ethereum roadmap, and the metrics, is it possible to request access to that. I don't think we… If you said so. In the sense of, like.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: It's for client teams, so they kind of, like, give you the login for the clients you're representing. Or walking with, if I should say that.

Łukasz Rozmej: I would consider making… sorry, sorry, I would consider making this, With Trustless Log Index, working with Trustless Log Index, so we can have both. Sorry, sorry, sorry, I just dumped what had come to mind, I'm multitasking a bit, and I… sorry for inter… Meaning?

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Sir, I don't understand what you mean by dumping.

Łukasz Rozmej: No worries, sorry, I interjected, that's what I meant. I kind of… Doesn't even think what I'm doing.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Okay. Sorry, Ahmad, did you understand what I was saying?

Ahmad Wilson: Yeah, I mean, I… I'm not sure if that means that it's completely closed off to… when you say, like, partners or people who work with the clients, I'm curious to what extent someone would have to work.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: The devnets are closed. It's not an open devnets. It's… it's not open, so it's the dashboard, it's kind of like, they give you a login details of the clients you're working on. For example, I'm making the implementation on Grandine, so that's how I get to see that.

Ahmad Wilson: Okay, who's they? The EF? Is who runs that, or… or DevOps?

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: The people running it is Ethlambda.

Ahmad Wilson: sutcheon.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: from Zeam. Yeah, Zeam stopped working, and then they took over. But the infra is from EF.

Ahmad Wilson: Got it, got it.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: If that makes sense. Yeah, okay. So, back to 900, yeah. My 100th. Snow J… yeah. Sorry, I was asking, Łukasz if you have any change or… I don't know.

Łukasz Rozmej: So, I would be very reluctant to add new, endpoints that are not compatible with, trustless, ethereum roadmap, let's say, and we have EIP for Trustless Log Index. So… I would… Align with that.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Okay, but it's okay for me to present this as it is to ACDE.

Łukasz Rozmej: Hmm…

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: I'm being skeptical.

Łukasz Rozmej: You can do what you… what you want. I'm just giving my feedback.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Yeah, I know, but like… I'm trying to… Reduce the, review comments so that it would be easier to get people to look at it and then make… A precise decision.

Łukasz Rozmej: Not sure, what do you expect from me, then?

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: If this is okay as it is, or should I make any other changes before presenting it to ACDE?

Łukasz Rozmej: I'm… not sure. I'm…

Lightclient (Matt Garnett): I mean, he's saying that he thinks the trustless log index is… The approach that we should be looking at, and not this.

Łukasz Rozmej: So, this might be somewhat combined with Trustless Log Index, I'm not sure. I haven't, like, made a deep dive into this topic to… if this… if this can, but I… I think if we should do something, going Trustless is… would be my main priority, other than… Thus adding more… more things that are kind of somewhat obsolete, because they are not trustless, so… If I would be adding something, I would make it trustless compatible.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Okay. Okay, thank you. I think that's all for today. Don't know if someone else has something else to say, or actually… Agenda. Fine list something, no. Alright then, thank you all for coming and joining today's call. See you all next two weeks.

Lightclient (Matt Garnett): See ya.

Łukasz Rozmej: Thank you, bye.

Mercy Boma Naps-Nkari: Bye.

Transcript adapted from ethereum/pm, CC BY-SA 3.0.