Paladin project [AMA]

Transcript

foreign thank you everyone from being here for the second panel of the for the second step of the Etsy siligal track it will be about a project Paladin I will I will give the I will give the the floor to to Roma that that will explain us who he is and what is parado uh my name is William Roark and I'm a partner at Orwell and I will ask some question to to remind during this ask me anything

and of course we will be glad to take your question during the during the the last minute thing I let you uh introduce yourself and introduce your project yep thank you for the invitation William so uh I'm Hamas some might know me as fig on the social networks I'm one of the co-founders of Palin which is a governance lending and management protocol um I'm going to try to be as candid and interesting as possible on the legal questions of things so hopefully I don't get canceled or taken away by Regulators by the end of the talk so yeah the one start right away do you want me to describe a bit more yeah maybe explain us what is exactly a governance lending protocol maybe some people especially on the stream are not very uh

very Savory about this kind of things yeah totally so what we have built is what we call influence Market it's a way for people who don't use their voting power to basically deposit them into the the vaults that we have created and other people can basically borrow them can become much more complex than that depending on the protocols so the decentralized organization we're actually building on top of but the main idea is that there's a little big participation problem today and we're basically trying to enable more people to access the voting Power by reducing the friction of access sorry of access yep so that's the the very basis of it okay so like to to summarize I can ask your your protocol like but I don't know to borrow or to learn some governance

right attached to it you can if I want for instance to participate into the governance there so to participate in a decentralized project that's that's exactly it the idea is that for example you have a landing protocol and you could say but what's the difference a traditional lending protocols enables you to lend out the asset right and the difference is that we're spending you're just lending out the voting power so it can become very interesting because most of the regulation today in essentially the banking regulation is around uh Financial assets right the thing is that is voting power Financial assets today that's not the case so that we can enter in a very complex and interesting discussion because what we're actually doing in a sense is not really Finance

okay great and I I present that you have a legal background so it will be interesting this is just for for the recall and I also I also understand that Paladin so your protocol that is offering a kind of services into the DIY ecosystem but at the same time you are yourself Adele right or you are in in becoming a there you know if I understand so Paladin is uh is a Dao I think the problem with saying we are a Dao is that you're saying that you have passed the point of decentralization where you're basically fully decentralized and there is no in the truth is that there is no such a thing it's a constant Point you're trying to get to it's just a limit you're not trying to be decentralized you're trying

to be as decentralized as possible so uh Paladin is a Dao we're trying to put more and more measures to make it more decentralized but we have to uh tried to be as decentralized as possible from the get-go so for example the core team has always had their tokens allocated by the actual Dao we did not have any allocation at the beginning uh in a sense and I that's very specific to Paladin I think we really need to be a Dao simply because what we're building cannot work in the traditional sense like for traditional company because you cannot ask people to give you too much power and not think you're going to abuse it at some point okay um I would like to to ask you some question about uh about more

globalizadeo because I mean your project is a is a is in the middle of this of this ecosystem could you explain is what is it they are what is a decentralized autonomous organization and maybe give us some insight about if there is any difference with a a company or a form of a normal company corporate yep so I actually think no one agrees on what the Tao is so uh we're probably not going to agree that's why I I I'm I'm asking you this question uh so it means it decentralized autonomous organization autonomous that does not mean automatic it means that it doesn't need any above or side regulation or lows to basically

function test it basically has the governor body and the rules that allow it to be selfish self-sufficient and autonomous and then decentralized it just means that basically there is no centralized power and it's easy for people to basically move the center of power from one place to another and that there's need there needs to be an absolute consensus for things to move forward so when we say What's the difference with a company I would actually say company could be a Dao honestly any any for me a Dao is not a type of legal entity or a type of entity it's like an operation an operating system for entities so you're trying to you can you can have a company that's a dial you can have an association that is that's a dial you can you could even have a state that's a

doubt but that's in theory okay so if it's an operating system is it possible to to be a jail without having a legal entity I mean if you want to hire contractors if you want to have a relationship with the other project or or other people okay so let's be very careful on this yes you can I'm not saying it's a good idea okay very interesting um maybe about the risk first when we're talking about regulation we're talking about meeting trying to mitigate the risk I mean it could be and we we talk about it in the previous panel it could be in a wrong way or in a bad way I mean I mean if you are if you are taking the innovators and the build up interview what is the main risk you see with their

uh I mean I know it's a very broad question because there is a lot of kind of dough but maybe on the government is there is a governance attack or governance fail that can that can happen is it something that their projects are working on so as you say there's a lot of risk uh we can talk about like at the ethical risk the the success risk and since is this the type of organization that can actually function and then you have the legal risks and the legal risk in a sense you have you could say as you may as we mentioned banking regulation risk uh you're going to have fiscal risk which are probably the most obvious ones and the ones who are going to have the most problems with uh the fastest and then you have the Civil responsibility

risks I guess there's a problem who's responsible and that's the problem if you share the power and there is no Central Authority Central sense of responsibility is everyone responsible is no one responsible that's a really great Zone today okay so the risk is that today I could be classified or qualified as a de facto company for instance yeah it could it's not even de facto companies so in France in the US we have different types of companies right means that uh the jury who is going to basically indict you they're going to be the ones who choose what type of company you are so you basically lose the freedom and the flexibility that you could have by creating the legal wrapper yourself okay interesting and um maybe our last

question about the risks about the governance token itself uh do you see some risk to these governance to be classified at something regulate I'm talking about we actually set on one side security token on the other side and could be explained us a little bit what uh what is this risk and what is this kind of token oh yeah it could happen for sure so the problem that we have uh today is uh the speed at which the regulator goes is inversely proportional to the speed at which crypto goes so for example we're now starting to talk about defy regulation or in 2022 we've been doing D5 for what four years so each time they regulated icos three or four years after the Ico is right so the problem we have is they're telling us this is bad once

everyone has basically delved their toes into it uh I do think we're gonna find a legal qualification for uh crypto assets especially governance tokens uh is it gonna be an old category that we revamp or do we have to reinvent something like as you mentioned with virtual assets honestly I don't really know what's the I think it's also going to depend on the type of assets because for example you have governance token that yield that very yield that have dividends like for example crb token that gives you a different uh types of yield but at the same time it's not transferable so it does not have the same characteristic as a traditional asset the idea is that you could say

governance tokens and that's controversial look like stocks but they're like some kind of programmable stock but some of them are worse than stock some of them are better so in a sense it's not just one qualification that when it's like a whole table with different characteristics and then we have to add them but at the same time some other people are going to invent new characteristics you have to make the table bigger constantly I really a little bit provocative but if I if I understand like the the meaning of a discussion creating a DI can can draw some risk like to be classified as at a company in one form another that draw like Risk on the tax on the taxation risk and liability governance token draw also some risk so what is the what what is the purpose is it a good

idea to create a deal and and how to create a dial without trying to mitigate the trade score at least to to know to know them so something that's important is that crypto started a lot with a lot of very young folks um a lot of people who did not have and I am part of them by the way who did not have entrepreneurship experience so yes when you build a company you have legal risk yes when you have entrepreneurial use you have Financial Risk and this is exactly the same when you build a dow um what's interesting about the Dow is that you have much more opportunity they could have in your traditional company because you're building something that's more resistant to social consensus to power concentration and much more flexible in terms of the programmability

of all of it so in a sense you're taking more risk because you're potentially tripping more reward but you have a canvas of exploration in terms of the projects you can build that's much bigger today okay very interesting um do you see uh do you see forthcoming regulation in the EU or in the US or in the UK that uh that can be that can have an impact on their or not especially we are talking about when we are talking about uh just for the public when we are talking about civil liability or the effect of companies uh we are talking about like maybe 200 years old regulation so I'm talking about maybe Mika or or in the US you see some interesting regulation that arrive so I

know a lot of Founders don't actually agree with me on that but regulation should come it's still going to take some time they say Mika needs two more years right but if we don't have regulation we're basically subject to interpretation which is even worse because it means that we don't know where we're going if we get sued if we have a lawsuit we don't know where this can end up and it's much more uncertainty is much more dangerous than certainty because you can prepare against certainty you can't against uncertainty so in a sense I want us to get regulated but it has to be in the same logic that what we have built for uh I've been very adamant on saying that the problem with banking regulation is that what they're asking from Banks they can't ask the same from crypto not

because we can't give it to them we can actually give most of the questions they want to because the blockchain is transplant but because they're asking the wrong question uh they want to know the identity of someone they don't actually need to what they need to is look at the transaction history from someone and then if they want to ask the identity they ask for on and off from actors centralized exchanges who basically do this liaison and on touring the D5 sandbox no one cares what you're doing in a sense you can't for example learn their money this way and that's the problem the problem is that because we're asking the wrong question we're fighting against the wrong principles and the wrong problems we need this because then we end up with the lunar crash then we end up with Wonderland where we realize that they're

potentially uh washing money away Etc it's it's a big problem we need to have higher standards and we need to know where we're going and when you have an 18 years old kid who creates a lending protocol he has no idea of all the complexities of the credit system right um before accepting maybe some questions from from the public what will be your your main advice to someone want to create a deal I mean most of the projects and if I like our links on one way or another today what will be your main topic to yeah to create today with the legal standpoint of course oh yeah for sure so um I would I was going to say go to law school but

so that's a that's a very hard advice that's a very bad advice so the idea is uh either find a good lawyer but of course you need money to do so you have to be successful or to raise funds at some point just read the articles speak with other people who brought out there are best practices that are being made some people are writing articles about it that it's very easy don't do stupid things if something is deemed stupid in a company it's probably going to be stupid in a dow it's really a grown advice don't don't do stupid no maybe something we can add it said like just try to to cool down for five minutes and understand what exactly your people are buying your governance token what they will be able to do and usually

I mean it's it's I understand your advice like this usually if there is a lot of Financial Risk or governance risk you can assess it quite easily I mean you just of course you just need to step down a little and to to try to to have some insight on it but uh okay so Roman thank you very much for this recipe anything maybe some of you have some question because it's actually it's asked me anything for you you're supposed to ask something if any one of you I want to have a question yeah maybe just some some thoughts from from Roma on the like very specific stuff like for example legal rappers

it's a very common topic for those now but in your opinion is there right now any decent strategy for legal rappers or is there no strategy and just like opinions the way uh I think the biggest problem is that today most of the legal rapper comments we find at least on the internet they come at least I am not so it means that I am not subject to the same kind of Regulation to the same kind of regulating philosophy than they are so we can actually be held a liable by the SEC but we also might are much more likely to be hand labeled by the European or the French regulator so in France for example if you create an entity in the BVI or something you're gonna have a really complex

problems with the fiscal system in France because most of the transactions who come from the BVI are them as well fiscal uh evasions or something like that so it's not the most obvious system for us in France to actually follow the legal rappers that are advised in the U.S uh against like you can look at a lot of different structures I don't think there's the right answer that's the whole point and the whole beauty of a law is that there is usually there is not one answer there's a lot of different constructions you can have and it's more about finding the right fit for you and usually building it yours yourself with your uh Consultants so if you have them with your lawyers to basically find what's the ideal setup for your specific project on your specific company it's always the same

right you have to tailor it any further questions any more question if you if you have any question tomorrow maybe maybe you will be free after after the the talk to to answer okay thank you very much for for being here and thank you Roman for for your participation [Applause] thank you

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