Rollup TV: Aria Protocol, Money Moves Fast EP 8, Crossmint

Transcript

[music] [music] How about [music] [music] the mother? [music] >> [music] >> I'm above the [music] [music]

>> [music] [music] >> We threw down 2 days live stream. We got an event planned Q4. [music] Stay tuned. We're going into the events business. Rob and the boys two straight days [music] live stream number one [music] [music]

[music] back >> [music] >> How about [music] [music] the mother? >> [music] >> I'm the mother.

[music] >> [music] >> above the [music] >> [music] [music] >> We'll see you around the timeline.

Feels good to be back. There we are. There we are. We're going to have Rodri come on and join us from Money Moves Fast in just a moment. But we're not going to start with that. We're going to start by chopping it up. Guys, we are live from New York City. I am in Manhattan. The boys are in the arena. Okay, we are live from New York and we're shaking hands this week. All right, guys. We're shaking hands. We're in the arena. We're in the mix. We're going to be drinking espresso martinis with all of you. We've got an event on Wednesday. We're co-hosting with our friends at Securitize and Magic Newton.

We're gonna have people come from Talking Tokens, our friend Jaclyn Mel Melanic, uh we're gonna have our friends from Radius. Guys, make sure if you're in New York City, come to our event on Wednesday. It's going to be great. It's going to be a great time. Uh we're going to be chatting with all of you guys. There's a really interesting mix of people that are going to be joining and you're not going to want to miss it. We're also going to be live streaming from SmartCon uh over the next couple of days. All right? And so if you're in town, you don't want to miss it. SmartCon is one of the most institutional, professional, Wall Street oriented uh conferences uh for crypto throughout the entire year. All right, we're in New York. We're going to be bringing you guys fast-paced coverage uh

so that you don't miss anything from New York City over the next few days. There's going to be a lot happening. We've got the SmartCon event uh with Chain Link. We've also got Ripple Swell. As you guys know, we are not Ripple Maxis. All right, we may have a conversation or two with someone who might be a Ripple Maxi, but we're going to try to parse through and separate the noise from the truth and bring you guys the facts, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Guys, great show for you tonight. Uh again, live from New York City. We've only got a couple of guests today because then we're going to go gallivant around the city. Uh we've got

David from Arya. All right, David from Arya uh is going to be representing Story Protocol. As you guys know, they have been on the show before and Arya is tokenizing quite a bit of uh RWA. Okay, this is not RWA in the typical sense, right? No, these are uh music, these are games, this is really really valuable IP that is representative of brands uh from all around the space, right? And so they've done uh they've done EDM groups, they've done K-pop groups, they've done Justin Bieber, they've got all kinds of things uh that they've been doing,

and it's really really exciting to have them on the show uh today. So, uh, we're going to be speaking with David from Arya about some of their new art platform, Sedition. They're going to v tokenize visual art on Story. Uh, and we've already seen what is possible on Story. Uh, and all all the fun things that are coming up there. So, we're going to have David join us from Arya in just a moment. As you guys can see, this is not the usual setup. We are in a New York City hotel. uh pretty much uh right in the thick of things. So, it's really really exciting. Uh and we're going to be bringing you guys all kinds of

things. Why don't we why don't we uh why don't we dock some of the people that are going to be coming on the show this week. I know I'm a little zoomed in here. I'm going to try to stay out. Guys, uh we are going to bring the king of chain link, the general of the Marines [snorts] Sergey himself, is going to be joining the show. It's going to be his first time on the show. It's going to be really, really exciting. Obviously, maybe you know, you guys have been around long enough to see Chain Link and everything that they've been able to do as of late. Close up this curtain a little bit so you can get some better lighting.

Uh Link has been around a long time, right? Uh we know Chain Link, they've been around 2017. Uh they actually bootstrap. Uh they did not have uh any VCs initially. It's going to be a really exciting time uh to speak with Sergey. He's been in DC. He's been instrumental in helping put together some of the America crypto legislation. If you guys saw, Donald Trump, the US president, in case you were unaware, was on 60 Minutes last night. He was talking about crypto. He said crypto in America is his number one priority. He was also talking about stable coins and everything that the Genius Act has been able to help push forward. Guys, another amazing show for you today as well as the rest of the

week. We're going to bring David up on the stage in just a moment. He's going to be talking about everything that's happening at ARA. And Arya's got some really, really exciting things that are coming up. Uh, let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Guys, hit us up in the chat. If you guys got questions for David, hit us up in the chat. If you've got uh anything that you want to hear David speak about while he's on the show, hit us up in the chat.

Ask a question. Uh, you guys have seen him on the show before. We've got him in the back now. So, why don't we bring him up on stage and we can kick off another great show on Rollup TV. David, pleasure to host you again, man. Thanks for being here. >> Hey, Robbie. Good to be here again. Thanks for having me. >> Absolutely, man. I think uh I think the first time you came on, I I mean, story was early, Arya was early. You guys have absolutely been crushing it. I was at Origin Summit in Korea uh chatting with Sy and some of the guys over there. It was a tremendous conference. Obviously, there was a lot of excitement around the Baby Shark uh pink falling sort of uh memecoin RWA IP tokenized launch. Um, look,

>> attention is affection out there. I mean, there was a lot of a lot of attention for better or for worse. So, it's really really cool to see some of the things that you guys are doing. >> David, before we dig into some of the more specific things that you guys have activated over the recent months, I'd love just a catch up. I think maybe it was about three or so months ago uh when you joined us before. What's what's life at Arya been like over the last few months? >> It's been hectic. We're building we've built out the team. Um we're landing IP deals. Uh we're also sort of not narrowing but but clarifying that our reasons for being you know which has been very exciting because we've sort of grown uh as a team and opportunities grow so do our ideas you know and uh I

mean we're we're well on our way to to creating or or really contributing to the the marketplace of IP you know bringing on top uh labels bringing on uh uh brands bringing on artwork bringing on obviously music. So there's a lot of I mean there is a giant a IP market out there and I think just the the mantra of providing access access to investors to these fairly stable and exciting assets but also access to the investors you know or or yeah to the investors for you know labels artists that kind of thing.

So it's it's really exciting. >> Yeah absolutely. I want to give you a chance. you did it last time, but I want I want to hear it again because you guys are always growing your portfolio of IP and and some of the names that you rattled off, you know, are are really really impressive. Maybe you could just remind the audience uh some of the more notable IPs in the in the in the book. >> Yeah, so we we've launched the the Apple token, the APL token that's got passive publishing rights from songs released by Justin Bieber, Blackpink, Maroon 5, John Legend, Jonas Brothers. I mean, there's maybe 29 different assets in there, all that have been paying daily uh to or I should say buying back APL uh daily. And that's great. It sort of proved our

proof of concept. Um we're now talking to huge tranches of of of catalog assets to to marry them up with investors, but also onboarding, as I mentioned, sort of labels, and we we have a lot of great things to announce in the next few weeks. >> Yeah. Yeah. Incredible, man. uh anything that you can kind of allude to here? Maybe you you know you know we kind of covered what's been the the life has been like over the last few months, but thinking a little bit further out, right? You guys have a lot of exciting announcements. Maybe if you're not ready to unveil some of these announcements, maybe you can just talk to the strategy and the roadmap and the vision as you you're starting to forecast out what the next few months are going to look like and really look ahead to 2026.

Yeah. So our our our reason for bring being is bringing iconic IP onchain, right? So we're we're looking in all directions. We're definitely like as I mentioned talking to to to labels, right? I think and and artists. Uh we're definitely going to see some cool brands coming on chain which should be very cool. Or I should say hopefully because as as we say in the law game, it ain't done till the somebody signs on the dotted line. But uh but uh yeah, we're uh we're we're really excited about brands. We're really excited about um some various streaming uh things we can do with AV works productions that we help to fund and produce that also brings in music and talent and that kind of stuff worldwide. We have a lot of uh interaction and and uh community

endeavors where people can really interact with the content. The Nana uh remix contest that we just launched last week or as we announced we're going to be launching it next week. But that's a good example where remixers can upload their content. the Apple T stakeholders vote. Uh there's also some uh public voting. Uh but they really get to determine what ends up uh in their token as it were and we'll be releasing the winners of that remix uh competition worldwide and that will create excitement and create revenue. Um and that's the first of many. We've got another K-pop artist we'll be announcing and a super producer that we'll be working with on that in the next few days. Um, again, big brands that we've all heard of and want to be involved

with. And we're also looking at sports. You know, there's a lot of interesting name and likeness rights opportunities out there with various athletes around the world. And that's exciting to us because we're I mean, look, we we we don't want to be in the hair raising, shoots to the moon, drops to the ground business. We want to be in the, hey, we believe in this artist, athlete, whatever. I want to participate in their income over time, you know, and and we we're looking for growth. So, we're we're looking for high value athletes, artists, everybody that people can really get behind and literally invest in and and can help shape their career.

>> Yeah, I love it. I I think the concept is really intuitive to people once you start to understand, look, you can participate in this artist or athlete success from an early stage and you can grow along with the athlete. you can invest in them, maybe give them some sort of uh early stage contract as they get a signing bonus or they go pro or they release an album and that starts to acrew more and more money that ultimately gets passed to some of the early stage investors in that artist or athlete. I think that concept is really intuitive. >> One thing that you guys have launched over the most recent months couple months ago uh that wasn't live last time we spoke to you, I think was this Apple token, this um Arya Premiere uh launch token, right? uh talk to us about APPL.

How did the launch go? And maybe you can explain and unpack some more of the tokconomics around APL. >> Yeah, so the launch went great. I think that there was, you know, some minor misunderstanding as to what IPL was, which, you know, we we were clear up front, but it is new, right? It's not a stable coin. It trades. It it is very stable. It's been at 90 cents, I think, for months because it continues to pay yield. people are getting they they they they they know what they're getting now and they're getting what they what they expect. And um and so Apple's great. It's a way of of of being involved in in your your you know, all of those stars uh various careers or at least output.

And so it's been fantastic. And you know, we have I I a large percentage of it is staked. I don't have the numbers right off the top of my head, 80 90%. And we continue to grow that. you know, the the investments we're making now, the incentes are all going to go back to Apple and it's a great proof of concept for us that we'll be again expanding, but also we'll be doing new new vaults with new assets and and and everything coming up. >> And so I'm looking at some of the stats around uh the premier launch uh right now and it looks like the purchase price was uh just about 11 million 10.95.

There's eight cataloges which includes 48 titles. Um 3.4 weighted average vintage. Expected annual returns 5 to eight percent. And then it it has the breakdown of the songs. Number number one on this list is Peaches by Justin Bieber. I know it. I like it. It's a banger. 28% uh uh is made up by this one song. And then you've got songs by Miley Cyrus. You got songs by Blackpink. Katy Perry now dating the uh the uh Canadian prime minister as far as I understand. That's just a little pop for you.

>> And Maroon Five. So all of these guys, Selena Gomez on there as well. So there's a bunch of great songs from great artists. Now let let me just make sure that I understand what's happening here. you have purchased the rights to each of these songs, uh, the Justin Bieber songs, the Blackpink songs, and then once those songs get played or on streaming softwares like Apple Music and Spotify, maybe every stream kicks back like 7/10en of a cent or 3/10en of a cent, something like that, I think I've seen online. And then that is revenue that gets paid to the owners of this portfolio, which you've gone and tokenized. And then investors can have fractional ownership over this portfolio and they can earn the yield uh from which the the revenue that's generated

by the streams on the streaming platforms. Is that is that the right way to think about token? >> That was very well said. Thanks for for asking that question. Yeah, every time uh so the way the music business I I started doing this on X and I'm going to keep doing it, but the way music works in general there's two copyrights. There's a master copyright and a publishing copyright. And anytime music is is played, consumed over the radio, streaming, album sales, anything synced into a TV, film, some sort of royalty is paid to actually both of those copyrights. Um, the Apple token is mostly publishing assets. There are some master rights, including to Peaches in that, but it's mostly publishing.

Publishing is the song underlying the recording. So, it's the words, the music, the melody, the the that's the the publishing, right? So every time something is streamed, it's a small amount, you know, it's I I I I think it's probably somewhere around a thousand bucks for every million is paid to the publishing a million streams is paid to the publishing and the publishers and that's divided by the percentage of the song that the publisher represents and then they pay a certain agreed percentage to the songwriter. And what we did is we went out and bought the rights from the songwriters and we bought the copyrights but it's the income that flows through the Apple uh token holders because actually tokenizing copyrights is is fishly difficult and and and because crossborder ownership and all that but

the income which is really all that matters goes to the token holders and and that will happen for the life of copyright forever and ever well at least the life of the authors plus 70 years. um forever and ever for a long time. And um and yeah, and we're going to expand on that. And that's that's basically the meat of what we're doing is we're we're providing access to these income streams that that every time these songs are played or consumed, you're consumed, you're participating in that. >> Now, talk to us why you you mentioned that this APL token has been pretty steady at about 90 cents. Um talk to us why it's it's remaining steady uh uh at that 90 cent mark. Yeah, I I don't know.

I just think that there's not necessarily huge sell pressure because people like what they have and they're getting their their proceeds. Um, as far as it going up or down in value, I I mean, you know, >> I'm not a I'm not a financial, you know, attorney. >> I see. I'm looking at the total supply now. So, the total supply and the max supply is about the 10.95 million tokens that were was the purchase price of all of the assets in this portfolio, >> right? And so it's almost like, >> you know, we've had a lot of conversations about these digital asset treasury companies, right? Where they go launch a public vehicle and then they own a a a treasury of, you know, an underlying crypto asset, call it Bitcoin and Micro Strategy or ETH with one of

these like Bitmine uh treasury companies. And then what they're doing is they're they're going they're putting that on a publicly listed uh stock exchange like, you know, NASDAQ. We've seen even Story has their DAT digital asset treasury company now. And you've got the net asset value which I'm equating to the purchasing price of all the the assets in your portfolio in the APL portfolio which in this case is about 11 million. And then that net asset value effectively represents uh the market cap of the token. And then by staking the token you can earn all of the yield that is paid by the the revenue from these streams.

>> Exactly. >> Got it. Okay. And you're projecting about like upwards of five to eight% uh annual return on these portfolios. >> Yeah, I mean we're we're we're aiming for more than that. That that's the anticipated return, but I I think we're doing better than that and I think we're going to as we start to to see the returns come in. Uh because some of this stuff takes a little bit of time uh just for the they call it, you know, the waterfall or as the as the the income comes through the pipeline. But that's basically it. Yeah. >> Very cool. Do you know is there any stats behind this? How much the APL uh portfolio has generated in revenue to date?

>> You know, we publish everything on our website. So, check out the Arya Protocol.xyz. There's a deep deep stats on what's been paid out, the points paid out, um what as you referenced, you know, the the the waiting of each uh asset in the fund uh or I'm sorry, in the APL token. Um so, that's probably the best the best authority for it. Very cool. Awesome. >> Yeah, transparency is big with us. We want everyone to see what they're getting to understand it. I don't, you know, I'm not a crypto native, you know, you know, hanging on by my by, you know, by by white knuckles. It's really like, look, we want people to feel comfortable so we can grow this to be very very important rather than just be a flash in the pan.

>> Yeah, I love it. I I think this is great and I can understand how uh people are going to get exposed to this new asset class. Uh, and it's something that should be very intuitive and familiar with them. You know, we see almost like a a further stretch of this in content coins, creator coins, very popular on Pump Fun and Zora. And I think this is essentially what's happening here is you're you're betting early that something's going to get popular and you can [clears throat] end up profiting and doing quite well as from from making correct predictions and and really it it has a two a two-fold value proposition because it also brings you closer to this artist. I could imagine how artists like Justin Bieber could offer free tickets or discounts or special

in-person sorts of experiences for uh his token holders. >> Yeah. No, to to be clear though, I mean, yes, that is true. This particular token is not tied directly to the human being Justin Bieber. It's the songs that Justin Bieber's released. Now, that is absolutely the case though. I mean, this is very much like these creator tokens that actually pay a yield. So you're not just, you know, you're doing your due diligence to know what's going on with the creator, you know, you actually have some, you know, effect on their career because you're voting on various parameters of whatever we're putting on chain, you know, and uh so it's not just, hey, is someone else going to buy this token tomorrow? It's what is going to be coming through the pipeline? What is this person going to do? What are

they going to release? How is that going to do in the marketplace? as we work with labels and you know they're going to have lots of artists that you can participate with or invest with and uh or or or bet on as it were or or participate with and um I mean the it's just there's a lot of promise here and it's it's very intuitive and if you think about it like people continue to listen to music all the time you know you lose your job great do you do you cancel your Spotify subscription first no you probably don't you listen to music you know things I'm I'm not saying it's it's completely you know depression proof But it's not the first, it's not that sensitive an indicator and music is part of our lifestyle. So may go up, may go down. You know, over time the music

business has grown for almost 120 years or something. But uh but this it's it's an interesting asset class that exposes you to something relatively predictable, not unlike a T-bond or something. And to your point, connects you with your your your star, your your favorite artist. >> Yep. Um, David, I'm just curious because I've I've heard and I've seen more and more of this popping up and there's some very mixed opinions about it. I'm curious with, you know, your uh experience in the music industry also with story protocol and intellectual property, everything that they have going on with AI, what is your take on AI generated music and and how you think that might change the music industry?

>> Yeah, my take on this is varied [laughter] as you might imagine. Look, I'm prohuman. You know, I believe in and I and Arya's position is we believe in AI as a tool. You know, we think that there's obviously, you know, huge promise in using that as a tool. My takeaway from he, you know, listening to AI generated music is that it's sort of like the uncanny valley. You know, it's like sort of there, but I believe in the connection to certain songwriters to be it God, the Dao, your creator, maybe just their emotion. But I feel that when and I've also worked with a lot of talented musicians, artists, writers, especially songwriters over the years and not everyone is successful and it's not just chance. It is very much like a

talent, you know, it is an ability to really connect with humans on a very very existential and I think broad-based level. Can that be aped by computers? I genuinely hope not. And I'm just saying that I hope not. I think it's a fantastic tool, but I would mourn losing that connection to humanity that I believe musicians and poets and creators possess. Am I drinking the Kool-Aid or or the the human Kool-Aid? I don't think so. Um I think it's Yeah, I think it's part of the toolkit.

>> It's It's fascinating, man. I had a very similar uh uh you know, outlook on things. I also enjoy, you know, this human connection and I I really hadn't heard any good AI generated music. Like there were some Drake songs, there were some thought, you know, some some various songs. I also listen to Joe Rogan pretty frequently and he's been really huge on this uh he does like 50 Cent uh you know like pretty pretty hardcore gangster rap, but then he does it in like 1950 soul music. >> It is insanely good. It is. >> That's cool.

>> It is really really cool. There are some great companies like Endell's out there making like scientifically, you know, researched sleep mixes and things like that. Like, you know, you could have one song out there that that AI can make 50 different versions of. I think that's great. You know, I think it's I want to monetize. I I'm into AI. I use AI all the time, but replacing musicians with AI makes me deeply uncomfortable. And I think it's just [clears throat] makes me uncomfortable on a on a civilization level, not can it be done? And I get the efficiency and my my buddies, the VCs and everything like I get it, but like is that really our goal? And more the point is like is it really a replacement or are we just doing something because it's cheaper and more efficient, which is probably not the right way thing to

do here. So anyway, kind of personal opinions there, but >> yeah. No, I like it. I like it. It it is really interesting because we are we're at a really interesting time where we literally have seen this be born like yeah this is [snorts] probably common place 10 15 20 years from now it was totally non-existent 10 15 20 years ago and through our lifetimes we were able to see and kind of live at this generation th this this convergence this impass where we saw we saw it exist and not exist and we can kind of I think you know we're the ones that probably have the most stringent view on whether or not, you know, we like this or we don't like this because we can see both both sides of uh of the perspective. It's just it's really interesting to see how

it evolves. >> I bet you Yeah. I mean, I was I was going to say I think authenticity Yeah. is is going to be more prized and I think that's where story and where Arya sits because we can really you you know it's authentic if it's on the chain from your you know from your star and it's there. It's not an AI generated thing because you can track it. You can see it and now again there may be AI generated things from the authentic original base work. But again that's the benefit of stories. You can see that tracking and you and you know where things came from right you know >> you have this chain of custody uh and I remember I remember talking to Jason about the remix uh chain effectively like you can make you know these derivative works uh and everything's tracked and verifiable like like you're

saying. Um, David, we we've only got a few more minutes and and I saw some something come across a newswire uh last week. Uh, it was Arya partners with digital art platform sedition to tokenize visual art on story blockchain. Um, platform will enable tokenization of digital artworks as RWAS featuring works uh from the likes of Yoko Ono uh and Rafi Anodol. Um, new visual art grant program will allow artists to earn streaming revenues through tokenization shared with IP RWA token holders. Partnership expands Arya's scope beyond music uh into visual arts creating new monetization opportunities for creators and investors. Maybe you know this again you know speaks to the long-term vision

and roadmap for Arya. Uh what does uh the Sedition partnership bring to the table for Arya? >> Yeah, we love Sedition. I mean there there's there's a number of things that it brings in. First of all, it's a great outlet for the art that we grant that we uh support, sponsor, you know, purchase. Uh it's going to be something that our token holders can make money from. Sedition also um licenses and supports uh creators. So that's content that may be coming into our chain potentially, you know, through other partnership. And um man I mean the the stuff the digital art is really amazing and to think of the concepts that that especially with the high you know higher and higher definition uh visual uh technology out

there. It's it's this really it's a great opportunity to sort of you know be a part of and have you know not just a a demand but also a supply of of art content. So I think it's great. It was a It was exciting. You know, it's also a marketing play for us. We get to be part of the Sedition's world and they can be part of ours. So, it's I think it's a great partnership. >> Very very cool. Uh David, before we get you out of here, I got a a Wikipedia page from uh one of our team members that uh is Creeper Lagoon. Looks like you were a uh a member of this band uh drummer back in the day.

>> My drum, we were talking about it before. My drum my kit set up back there. An electric kit. [laughter] >> Cool. I mean, >> pause, man. And I wanted it to fuzz. >> I love it. I mean, look, this is like uh you know, it it's uh made by musicians for musicians. You you you know, you practice what you preach, which is a rare thing these days, and you speak to the authenticity. Maybe you can just speak to, you know, your experience being a drummer back in the day, what it was like being a musician. You know, something like Arya did not exist. You probably thought of it, thought, why doesn't it exist? And then you wanted to be, you know, you were the change you wanted to see in the world. you went and you founded the company, you know, just just talk us through that evolution,

that progression, you know, being a musician to to now being an entrepreneur and a founder. >> Yeah, I mean, look, being an entrep a musician is being an entrepreneur. Like, every I mean, playing music isn't necessarily business, but every band, every artist that's booked a show or or been on tour, done make a recording that they put out, that that's a business, you know, and you're you're you know, you're dealing with it as a businessman. I I remember I so I you know I played drums when I was like 5 years old. I went to conservatories and arts academy and and I didn't go to law school till I was 28 and signed a dreamworks and it was great and I I was definitely on the road and and really understood what it was like to sleep on the floor too many times too much beer nearby you know and

uh but the reality is that I also remember you know booking shows in 1994 on AOL with like you know you know one line at a time loading up and and I liken web 3 to be sort of like where the internet was in 1993 And um you know we all had email addresses. We weren't really sure what to how to use it. We all got online through AOL. I don't know exactly know why. And um and but now you know we were all weren't really concerned sure what was going on. And now like my iris scans are on on the web and we trust it all. And it's obviously the backbone of of of commerce and everything creative creativity. And so that's what web three could be, you know, and I I wouldn't say I like I, you know, when I was drumming, I was not

thinking about how, you know, I could raise money in fractional increments [laughter] for for whomever. But, uh, you know, it was interesting that that we were there when Napster was there, like we were coming out with Nap and R and our guy was like, >> "Don't put your stuff on Napster. Put your stuff on Napster." Because it was seen [laughter] as such an amazing marketing tool, but obviously it was depressing sales. And I think from that Spotify came, you know, because once bandwidth got there and and you know, Rap City and there were other services, but once this once the technology caught up, Spotify could exist. And the fact is it's people complain about Spotify, but it's a lot easier to get online and make money now than it was when I was a kid.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Couldn't get any distribution, let alone be everywhere across the world and make money every month. So I I think this is I think being a musician and a lot of musicians end end up being great music lawyers. Um I think I think or business people I think being a musician is being an entrepreneur and and it's about building your craft and doing it wisely and bringing on a great team to help you scale. So >> that's awesome. I love it. David, >> thank you so much for coming. Uh always a pleasure. Um and I and I I love it. I mean, we've had multiple uh, you know, people that have come on and and very rarely do they uh come from a background where they uh have really felt it and lived through it. So, uh, thank you so

much for coming on and and uh, congrats on all the success with Arya so far and and best of luck in the future. >> Nice. Thank you for having me. Looking forward to next time. >> Absolutely. We'll see you again soon. Thanks David. >> You, too. >> Bye. [snorts] >> Beautiful. That's David from Arya. uh he is the founder and uh he's a great guy. Uh he is uh uh a drummer from back in the day. Uh a bunch of musicians come on the show and you know uh it's very interesting to see the overlap between the early internet and the music industry. Uh we had someone from Ledger the chief experience offer who again was in the music industry. Um and you know these are guys that are very they're visionaries

they're creatives and the early uh technological visionaries uh who who founded the internet and built it into where where it is today. You know these guys were also visionaries and so uh you know there's a lot of strong creative overlap in that industry. Uh and also you heard David talk about it. Uh the early days uh of music and distribution paved the way for um taking you know a a new medium uh and and you know the ability to digitize sound, put it into a CD, therefore then put it into a computer uh stream it online via some of these streaming platforms. Then that gave way to video. MP3 gave way to MP4.

So audio, video, all of this ended up uh enriching the internet and turning it into uh what it is today, which is a very very entrenched and important piece of technology uh that we use every day in all of our lives. So guys, uh another thank you to David. Great conversation. Check out Arya. Honestly, I can see Arya doing quite well. They have the APL token live. They don't have the Arya token live quite yet. That is going to have a little bit more volatility. Think about these portfolios as really they have port they are that they have portfolios they have net asset values and then there's revenue generated by them that pays a yield uh to the stakers of that portfolio token. So APL's live

uh check out Arya and definitely stay tuned because they've got some very very exciting things coming up. Wink wink. Um next up we're going to go money moves fast. Have a quick standby moment. get everything set up for Rodri from Crossman. Guys, don't go anywhere. We'll be right back on Rollup TV. Hey,

hey, hey. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat.

Heat. Heat. Hey,

hey hey. Heat. Heat. Hey,

hey hey. Heat. Heat.

>> [music] [bell] >> All right, there we go. We are live uh with Mr. Rodri Fernandez on Cross Mint. Uh guys, I'm super stoked. We've been trying to get Rodri booked for a while and uh man, we were just saying everyone wants stable coins these days. You just got back from Money 2020. [clears throat] That's a little bit more of like a it's not necessarily a cryptonative conference. It's it's a bit more of a a fintech conference broadly. What were your takeaways? What did you hear about the sentiment around stable coins while you were at Money 2020?

So you're right that it's a traditional fintech conference, but honestly this time to me it felt like a crypto conference because >> everyone is thinking about stable coins. Uh the audience primarily of the of the of the conference is traditional payment infrastructure companies, banks and so on. And the main takeaway is that every single one of them pretty much is thinking about stable coins. And those who don't, they're feeling an insane amount of FOMO right now and they're rushing to get one of the door.

>> And I think there is honestly a very big risk that those who don't will be pretty much left behind with products that aren't competitive anymore. And so it's a it's a really fascinating time. I think you know the use cases three years ago of crypto were like very different to the one ones today. Today it's mostly, you know, B2B, money movement, remittances, payroll, and so on. And and it's really cool to see them all come to life after, you know, so many years of all of us working hard towards Yeah. >> material, >> dude. I mean, it's incredible. You have uh worked with and partnered with so many great companies. We we'll get into some of that. This segment is sponsored and powered by Polygon. Uh it's the

money moves fast segment. Polygon has all kinds of uh stable coins, payments. I think they're the number one leader in payments uh right now um for uh especially non USbased transactions. They've got tons of tons of adoption happening in Latin America as well as in Asia and and Europe. Uh and so uh I I'm curious because CrossMint has partnered with uh uh Moneygram as of recently. Moneygram is typically someone uh that moves money but not quickly, right? And so on this segment, money moves fast. I I'm curious to learn about how you've upgraded money grams technology and

infrastructure so that crossber remittances are now able to be done quickly. How were you able to make moneygrams move fast? >> Yeah. Uh [clears throat] so the historical flow of remittances for these type of companies like like monogram is you go to a store you give cash and then that cash moves through swift and a network of correspondent banks and depending on where is the exact corridor you know it takes quite a bit of time and money for the money to get there and then the recipient they also go to a physical location and they pick up the cash. Um the system you know was built like quite a few years ago and today thanks to stable coins you can do something that is radically much better and so the new

flow with money is uh you pay in in whichever way you want. You can pay in in person too or via via an app. Uh that money is converted into stable coins. It's moved instantly to the destination into a wallet that is created for the recipient in the new monogram app. And now the recipient doesn't matter where they are in the world. they can access dollars. Many people in emerging markets, they're completely excluded from financial services. They're stuck with currencies that devaluate and suffer from uh pretty deep in inflation, which means that it's very difficult for them to save and and and build like a prosper economic life. And so now anyone anywhere in the world can access dollars, they can access other type of services like yield on those savings,

eventually trading and a few other things. And then they have the optionality to offramp back into cash through a physical location as they were doing before or keep it as dollars and use it to do peer-to-peer payments, buy services and so on and so forth. And so we're seeing like uh you know crossber payments is basically one of those cases that have had the highest program market fit and similar to monogram like now like you know so many other remittance companies are announcing things but it's really cool to see monogram be a pioneer a company that is you know about 100 years old and be able to build this in like in two months basically we went from like you know signing contract to two months after then being able to have

a product lab in production with two engineers from their side and so I think it will be a case study for the books that people will be looking at one of the most incredible transformations in the history of finance uh taking you know uh and it's really cool the team there is like absolutely amazing they're moving so fast and they're trying to be like a stable coin first company which is you we should get them guys into the into the podcast >> we should absolutely would love would love to have them on the show um and you know they've been around for so long they're so deeply entrenched in people's minds as the go-to place to do some of these remittances around the world and and they sort of just flipped the switch. I'm curious why did they flip the switch? You know, we get incremental

uh improvements, you know, as technology advances. Why haven't they done this before? Why why did they choose to do this now with Crossman? So Monogram had a few stable coin related products before. Uh, the main one allowed people to send stable coins to monogram and then off those funds via physical locations. So, basically they're opening up the liquidity network and physical network of agents uh to any wallet who wants to do that. Uh, but they hadn't like truly mastered this like embedded wallet experience. Part of the reason I think that is that historically the UX of wallets was not fantastic.

>> And so you know whether it's pass phrases or you know security risk or like all of these annoying transaction pop-ups and right now the uh the tech stack has evolved so much that it's possible to build non-custodial global from the one applications with like absolute zero complexity to the end user. To the end user it just looks like a normal app. There's like dollars in there. It's fast. Uh it's secure. H it just happens to be like yeah cheaper and money arrives faster that otherwise is good. So um that's probably that's probably it. And then there's obviously like developer infrastructure historically was like pretty complicated. If you wanted to build something like this you needed to orchestrate 10 different providers. H

you need the stable orchestration and the on and off ramps. You need the water infrastructure. you need like RPCs, data APIs, anti-moneyaundering, travel rule. And so if you're an enterprise and you have to import different vendors to be able to build this solution, the project is dead from day one. >> So right now the stack is such that you can use you know simple web to APIs. you don't need any blockchain engineers and you know with a couple of people you can put together like a very sophisticated uh product with much more functionality and go live in like in like weeks and then obviously like blockchains like polygon like now it's it's possible to transact um faster cheaper at much higher throughput that before it was very difficult to support enterprise

rate and scale type of applications uh and now you can and I think you know you've seen uh massive amounts of spikes of activity things like I know like the traming coin and so on like you know supporting throughputs sometimes even higher than what miscar do so uh it's uh it's very exciting >> yeah yeah it certainly is and we're seeing more and more robustness and more volume taking place on polygon as well as around Ethereum and other chains as well was $500 million that was moving on polygon the other day uh and this is facilitated by enterpriseg grade security as well as high throughput like you said to support remittances which requires a lot of bandwidth a lot of

throughput a lot of transactions on a short amount of time and and the network can get very congested if it's not if it's not built properly uh when it comes to money lots of again lots of transactions lots of throughput and they've been you know they they've sort of gone through some of the evolutions the last question I have about money is you know again why you know they have the ability to upgrade you know their technology on a pretty consistent basis. Uh and in this way they you know have digital dollars now they have this application and this wallet. Um why do you think they jumped all the way to stable coins? Why didn't they utilize the existing you know swift banking system kind of allow people to you know send money digitally first and and you

know now they've jumped all the way to stable coins. Was it sort of an incremental approach or did they go all the way from like physical cash, physical store all the way to stable coins like you said two months uh and it only took two engineers? >> Yeah, I mean to me is that uh trying to build this with fiat rails is like getting a horse that is like and doing stable coins is like getting a Formula One. >> Yeah. And so why like in terms of like performance but then also in terms of like difficulty to build is that it's so much easier to build these products now with stable coins. You have all of the regulatory arbitrage. You can build non-custodial wallets that are alive anywhere in the

world from day one without having to worry about all of the different local uh compliance requirements uh and different local providers because there's no one who can give you embedded financial services all over the world. That's just for holding balances. Then you have like money movement. Obviously, it's just like impossible to build anything remotely as high performant, as fast, as costefficient as moving money with stable coins. Um, and then there's the composibility aspect too. Once you have stable coin accounts for your users, then you can plug in all sort of financial services on top without needing to do all of these complicated integrations and have all of these different providers. You can provide yield natively to your users just

because there's money being held in the account that's already put at work in uh you know bonds that generate yield that you can either keep as a provider or give back to your users. You can add things like trading of tokenized stocks. You can allow someone that is in say Colombia or South Africa to be able to buy Tesla stock or you know OpenAI stock. uh you can give basically very sophisticated financial products that otherwise are number one just impossible to access to to a lot of these consumers and number two to that faster cheaper and compliantly and that's why I think like all of these fintex are jumping on board now because just like so much radically better technology that uh is about to eat finance in payments

>> man it's incredible uh you were named named Cross Mint was named as one of the top 100 fintech companies of 2025. Congratulations. It's incredible achievement. And there's other stable coin providers on there, but generally what we're seeing is that stable coins as a category is increasing. Crypto payments infrastructure as a category is increasing. You were up there with the likes of BVNK and uh you know uh Red Pay, Rain, Transact, all of these guys. uh you know BVNK is in discussions to potentially get acquired for two billion dollars. Um how do you think this is going to progress and evolve as crypto payments infrastructure becomes

one with the best of the best in fintech? You know these two worlds were very very separate for a long time. Money 2020 like you said was almost almost felt like a crypto conference this year. How do you think these two worlds will converge when ultimately this just becomes it's not deep defi and tradi it's just finance right it's not uh these two worlds aren't separate anymore they ultimately become combined how do you think things will look different will they feel different how do you think the UX might change what do you think is going to be different as these two worlds converge >> yeah number one I would say for these two worlds to converge there must be no differences in the UX whatsoever For users, it doesn't matter if it there

stable coins. What they care about is like is my money safe? What fees am I paying to move it? What additional financial services I'm getting? And if those happen to be on stable coins is is good for them. Uh but but they don't need to know. And that's like what we as a company aspire to do. We abstract all of that complexity for both for for people on both sides. Um, I'd say that as you pointed out, there's not going to be like fintech apps and stable coin apps that are separate as the separate category. There's just going to be like, you know, fintech apps and and stable coins are just going to be another additional rail that is going to be added to the stack. For some things, at least temporarily, fiat may be better.

If you want to send money from the US to Europe, for example, you don't really need to do stable coins unless the money will stay in stable coins on both sides at either side of the transaction. Uh but over time, yes, I think over time most most volumes and most balances will be eventually held on on on some type of stable coin uh balance. But in the short term, it's just going to be another rail and it's just going to look for users exactly the same and every single in the company is gonna have uh some type of stable coin component whether that is for like payments, whether it's for like account balances or other type of of infrastructure.

>> Got it. Very cool. Um and one another another thing that's happening is right we're we're we're scaling we're integrating these systems these wallet infrastructures these these companies already have massive distribution and so now we're sort of integrating the technology at the base layer. I I'm curious how how do you think this is going to scale? What comes next once we integrate stable coins, crypto payments, wallet infrastructure into the back end of MoneyGram and YX and all of these amazing partners that you guys have had.

Uh what what comes Oh, did we do we lose it? No. Okay, we're good. Uh what what comes next right as as we as we get more and more integrated into some of the largest players with massive distribution? What are some of the other things that you guys are targeting as a business? forces that are going to be colliding.

And it's all a matter of like how quickly can startups innovate versus how quickly can the the existing companies adapt and uh and so we're going to be seeing that over the next years and it's going to be like pretty exciting thing to see this uh yeah new generation of unicorns getting started. >> Roger give us one sec. I think uh I think the audience might have trouble hearing you. Uh just one one moment. We'll we'll make sure that we >> we get it going. Um, yeah, as you were saying, I could hear you. I think you you're making a great point that, you know, there's a new there's a new cohort of unicorns that are going to be that are going to be uh built. Uh, just give us one second to make sure that we got the audio dialed

here. >> Okay, I think we're back. So, maybe maybe you could just reiterate uh like you said, you said that there's going to be kind of this new generation of unicorns and and KingMake uh quite a few new protocols that are part of this revolution. um maybe you could just unpack a little bit more of of uh how you think this is going to scale and evolve uh as you look ahead to the future. >> Yeah, for sure. So that is the first I think like angle through which to see it is like this battle between enterp existing companies ad coins versus new entrance. Uh then you have sort of like what is the sequence of innovation and the different steps that are going to be happening over time. uh in something like today most of the market is focused on like the very basics right especially

on the enterprise side they're thinking like okay how can I launch a wallet how can I allow users to have deposits and how can I start to give yield and so on how do can I issue cards for users to spend those stable coin balances how can I allow these users to connect their wallet to a third party site to be able to make the payments and bypass visa Mastercard and get like better fees as a result over time more sophisticated embedded financial services start to to appear right after the basics have been solved. And so there you start to have like very like now for example because you have access to more data because of onchain transaction activity you have ways to do alternative credit scoring for giving loans to people for example or you have uh the the tokenization of

the world basically every single financial asset is getting tokenized. So you're going to be start you're going to start seeing this embedded trading services absolutely everywhere you have prediction markets sort of like exploring right now and you have you know the betting for like or information markets which I I think to in some other way to to look at it they start to also be embedded and trickled down everywhere. So basically it's the full tokenization of the world finalization and then that trickling out and getting embedded everywhere thanks to all of these composible assets and be made accessible to people all over the world.

I predict that you will start to see much more dollararization of emerging markets which will have a lot will give a lot of opportunity to people will also probably create a lot of cont conflicts locally in some places because of the inability to do monetary policy potentially spiraling down of like local currencies and things like that. And so that's also something to watch for that I think maybe people don't talk about so much. Mhm. >> Um, and then on the regulatory side, I think we're still a bit in like the wild west where there's a lot of companies who are doing things right, but there's also a lot of companies, especially more on the cryptonative side, which are probably not spending enough time on on the compliance and regulatory side. And I think that we all as an industry need to need a bit more personalization.

>> Yeah. Uh I think probably over 80% of especially the cryptonative apps are engaging in a license money transmission because the way they're setting up their wallets and I think that all of that needs to change. >> Yeah. And I think further regulation as well as uh compliance with the existing laws. Uh this is going to uh end up putting everyone on a on a even playing field and uh builders such as yourself and crossman can help people become compliant by doing things the right way. Um, I I'm curious as as uh I think about the business plan of you guys and you're you're helping a lot of these companies.

I'm curious why did you decide not to go the stable coin issuance route? Uh I I I'm just looking at Tether achieving 10 billion dollars in profit in 2025. Obviously not, you know, you can't there's only one Tether, right? Uh they became the 17th largest US Treasury holder. Um you mentioned global dollarization that could have some polarizing effects uh especially in emerging markets. How how do you think about uh the stable coin issuance game and then all of the infrastructure that's built around uh the stable coin issuers?

>> Yeah, that's a great question. So I think that [clears throat] you will have probably a small pretty limited set of institutions who are issuers of e like public stable coins of sorts. By public or ecosystem stable coin I mean a stable coins that is use outside of your own existing app. Uh so think of like circle with USDC, tether, uh USDG, Western Union just announced their own stable coin and a few others. uh that only makes sense I think to a small set of users because who's going to want to hold your stable right like the reality is okay if you're Apple if you're Google I think that that game makes sense uh for most companies I think and enterprises what they care

about is to get the deal while the funds is in the under ecosystem so they have the optionality to decide whether they want to keep it or they want to give it away and I think the today [clears throat] the market is still a little bit like early but probably what you will see is like let's say I'm an app I think cap. As soon as funds hit those wallets, they're automatically uh turned into a stable coin that is economically neutral to having my own stable coin. >> Um, and so what this means is that I get the yield anyway, but I don't have to go through the hassle of creating my own stable coin and so on and so forth. And then when the money needs to get out, you swap it back into USDC or USDT or one of these other like typical ones.

And so uh basically providers like us what we're doing and enabling is like if you're using a wallet infrastructure and the funds are held inside of those wallets we're able to give you the yield one way or another and then you don't have to worry about all of the complexity of using your own stable coin. Um the stable market is really big obviously going on like before tether existed that you know that that was an option that obviously is very appealing you know it's probably the most efficient capital efficient company in the world. >> Yeah. Um but but there's also one tether as you pointed out. So >> yeah, Tether, hyperlquid, and uh only fans, right? Most efficient companies in the world. It's incredible. Um yeah, man. I I I I'm curious what you think is still missing. Like it it feels like

we've come such a long way. I continue to look at, you know, things coming along the newswire and it's every day. It's partnership, major bank, major uh uh fintech, major um you know, remittance payment provider. All of these are now coming into the crypto world. They're integrating the technology and they're they're exposing stable coins to billions of people worldwide. What do you think is still missing? Is it regulatory? Uh what is it technology? Is it an engineering problem? Is it social coordination? What do you think is going to be the biggest zero to one that still is yet to happen uh that can happen and you will try to make happen over the next one, three, five years?

So the main thing right now is I think adoption. So in in time like we're completely rewriting the entire financial system. There's like so many different stakeholders involved. uh organizations that are like pretty old uh have their old ways and so changing everything just takes time and I think like things are moving as fast as they can be like literally every other day you have one of these major financial institutions announce something new and so I think that uh we're in an amazing track and like in one two years you're going to be we're going to look back and be like them like a year ago no one was thinking about stable coach now everyone is everyone is building and the next year is going to be about deployment and all of these announcements that are getting

out get them actually live getting them uh be used by users. One of the main things I think about stable coins is that they're extremely efficient. I think like cross border and they're also extremely efficient when the funds stay on stable coins before and after. And so I think like for that to truly manifest itself what we need is like more emergent acceptance of stable coins, more consumer adoption so that uh day-to-day payments uh start to go more into stable coins. Um and then internationally there also needs to be a bit more regulatory clarity on like which regimes uh and you know jurisdictions will apply to or regulations will apply to each specific jurisdiction. But all in all I think we're like an amazing track. The world is like changing at a speed that is unprecedented and now it's going to be

accelerated even further with AI agents. AI agents today they have become absolutely amazing at writing code, doing research and and so on but they're not economic actors. they will become economic actors. They will start intermediating most economic activity. And when they do that, stable coins are a much better primitive to do so than traditional financial rails which just simply do not work for for agents. And when that happens, then you're combining the the speed of transformation of crypto and AI, which is is like a, you know, atomic bomb. So, I'm very excited for that to happen in the next year.

>> Yeah. I uh had a conversation with Eric from Coinbase, who was the the creator of X42, the uh the standard that allows agents to pay one another. Uh and he was describing how um this opens the ability for agents to coordinate with other agents for pieces of work and make purchases for that work. For instance, we, you know, right now need a human in the loop for uh the ability to uh call an API because we need an API key and most of the time it requires uh purchase. Um and so X42 allows us to to use uh stable coins to pay for some of the things that AI agents can go and use

to continuing uh their their work without requiring a human to step in and intervene and make that purchase. I'm curious how you think the AI agent economy will evolve because it feels like, you know, we're kind of on this on this on this path uh where we're headed towards agents interacting with one another on a very recurring basis using a lot of transactions uh to to process uh payments with one another and pay for pay for work uh and pay for subscriptions and API keys and all these things. Um and maybe they'll even prompt us as humans to to provide something that they can go and do. So how do you think the agent economy the machine to

machine economy is going to evolve? How how do you think that you know they're going to use stable coins that these agents are going to use stable coins? Why is that good for the economy for agents to have more efficient payment methods and for agents to use stable coins to transact between each other? Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there. So maybe let me start by saying where the where the market is today and then from there expand to where I think maybe it's going and what are the main use cases. So today I think like you see two main applications. The first one is agentic commerce and so this is you're talking to an agent uh and either you being present or autonomously the agent go and makes purchases on your behalf. So think of I want to fly to money 2020 Europe in

four months monitor prices if it drops out that this price just buys it for me. you don't have to go through the hustle then change my you know seat uh ask for a refund whatever so that is like that cluster of of agentic commerce which applies both to purchases of physical goods or services as well as like API consumption which is what X42 has been doing a lot of the second cluster of activities were on agenda finance so you could have like your own personal financial advisor that you ask to to do trades and things like that and the beauty there is like like on anything You can only do so much on the real state of a website, right? You can maybe let's say you're trading, right? Like you can make a market order, a limit order, took a couple of things, but you

cannot make like sophisticated uh requests for let's say monitor what this Twitter account is doing and based on those uh you know outputs or inputs uh make you know this this thing or you know um copycat this other trade account or you know whatever it is. you can just not do those things simply from the real estate and of a website and now with LM you can do anything you like and so those I think are like sort of like the two use cases that we're seeing today the market is relatively early and all of the standards are getting developed but there's there's products out there that people can use like we at Crossmin the the role we play on it is we provide simple APIs to build to end agentic use cases so everything from allowing agents

to hold funds to moving money make payments and so on we have an API that allows an agent to buy billions of items from Amazon, Shopify and so on with stable coins or if they want to also with cards we partner with like Visa, Mastercard for their new tokenization initiatives and so this is life today. Anyone can go and they can use it. So sort of um but I think like for this to evolve we need like number one better consumer trust that if you're going to be making a request to an agent that you know they don't go and do something stupid. Uh, and I think there's especially when you do these things with stable coins, you can embed programmable wire rails into the contract cryptographically that limit what agent can do. Even if the AI was to hallucinate, they actually cannot do

those things because it's programming to the code that they're not able to do them. And so you probably will start seeing more like user present type of use cases where let's say you're talking to the chat GP of the world and it's like buy me a shoe and you buy directly from there instead of being taken to the website and manually have to complete and then from there once more confidence started to get built they will start to see more autonomous use cases especially for the use cases that are more painful today. So say like you know buying a flight and then over over time like confidence continue to get build and you see more we use it internally to give you an example of something very practical that we use today in the company is we have a slack bot that we programmed in like an hour that allows

any employee to request the restocking of office supplies. It's like we're out of toilet paper buy one and it goes and it buys it from Amazon. And so we have a vault. We fund the agent with a little bit of money and then we provide an instructions as to how much and which type of items people can buy and we say from having the office assistant reply three hours later uh you know all the back and forth. is so much more efficient and so you will see non-exlosion I think of like especially a lot of B2B probably procurement and some use cases but also consumer narrowly focused applications that I think are very exciting and very useful from day one you can build it in an afternoon.

>> Yeah. Yeah. What what uh what is that tool called? Is that something you guys built yourself? Uh because I I have a feeling others are are uh would would definitely get some use out of it. >> Yeah. Yeah. our intern building in an hour with the with with our own APIs. Uh if anyone is interested in exploring use cases, happy to share guides and so on. Just DM me whatever. Uh you can actually do like drag and drop automations and connect like similar to like Zapier. You can be like okay connect uh you know my payroll system to this or you know the let's say you have a a Slack channel for like finance requests. Like if a user requests say a card for like travel, if it means these rules, then automatically this works funds and provide like a card or whatever. You can do all of that uh

today and it's like really easy like an hour. You don't need to know how to code. It's fascinating. But this hasn't trickled down yet into the world. I don't think people realize everything that is possible, >> right? And it's coming. And so right now those integrations do not use stable coins or or do they do use stable coins? >> Yeah, they use stable coins. The problem with fiat I think that existent you know we're trying to help solve and working you know closely with like visa Mastercard for that part but I think is that the entire payment stack the entire financial system was built to prevent automated usage because automated usage is usually fraud >> usually people with using stolen credit cards to buy things and the downside of chargebacks is too big >> that you don't want to open the gates and so if you're let's say a you uh you

know trying to use an agent to buy something on a website, you get stuck with like the uh you know anti- anti-bot like cloud for protection. You're stuck with like recaptures. You're stuck with like let's say the user let's say the agent makes a purchase and then the user doesn't like it and they get a charge back. Who's responsible? Is it the user? Is it the agent developer? Is it the the merchant? And if chargeback spike then the cost trickle down across everyone from the issue bank of the card to the e-commerce site and so on. So you have basically 10 different providers on each single website that all they do is try to prevent uh automate uh like fraudulent card purchases and now instead of that you can just have a

simple API that you just call and bypasses that entire financial system that we think is going to take too long to evolve to actually settle with the merchant and that I think it's life today is really fascinating and I think again like similar you see both in parallel you see like people including us trying to build stable co solutions while also all of us try to make the existing system adapt and we'll see which solution matters for us we're agnostic we don't care we're uh powering sort of like both flows and and you know letting the market and time decide what flow actually becomes better over time >> absolutely well you guys are doing a great job obviously uh and clearly through the partner channels that you have built Moneygram Wirex they're

facilitating billions of dollars um on a recurring basis these are some of the biggest fintexs and payment providers in the world and you are the one to integrate Crossmin into uh their platform. So, congrats on all the [snorts] success. Keep up the great work. It's absolutely incredible. Thank you so much for coming on the show and uh and helping us understand and navigate the world of stable coins. Uh this is the stable coin super cycle and uh money moves fast. So, thank you so much.

>> See you. >> Cheers, man. Talk to you soon. Cheers. >> Bye. >> Love it. That was great. Uh yeah, Rodri, you're good to go. Uh we're gonna wrap up here and uh another great show for you guys. Um incredible. Uh Rodri is working with uh you know, some of the giants and uh this is the technology. He's laid the infrastructure for uh our economic system to really take an upgrade. Uh this is money moves fast powered by Polygon. And uh this is uh how we're building a new financial system to ultimately uh usurp and improve what we have uh going on in the economy on a daily basis powered by

Polygon. These guys are great. Rodrigo Fernandez from Crossmitt on the super stablecoin super cycle. Guys, thank you so much. We've got a lot to do today. We're in New York in the arena and uh we've got a great great week planned. So guys, stay tuned. Thank you again for another great show on Rollup TV. We will see you guys again soon. Hey [music]