Rocket Pool Community Call | 19 April 2023

Transcript

shh yeah well thank you very much may I have and Phil it's great great to meet you here for those in the community that don't know Phil is with lodestar and perhaps maybe you've been sleeping under a rock for the past couple of months here but lodestar is one of the consensus Beacon known and validator clients that uh that runs um the validation services on the ethereum blockchain and more importantly to us it's one of the validators and consensus clients that rocket pull supports natively in the smart stack um Phil welcome very much to our community call thanks Ken thanks everyone glad to be here yeah maybe if you could uh just take a few minutes Phil and maybe tell us a

little bit about you and maybe start with kind of how you started in the crypto ethereum journey and how you joined lodestar oh wow I probably need um more than just a couple minutes I guess to to do the whole story but just basically to summarize it I've been in the crypto Community for a long time uh initially started off with Bitcoin back in 2013 um what really garnered my attention in this uh sort of crypto space and Really Got Me Down The Rabbit Hole was the mount gox hack and uh that was actually what really got me digging into what Bitcoin is and you know the purpose of it existing uh and then from that point

on um luckily being a Toronto native uh I had access to a lot of uh Bitcoin meetups and also some prominent um you know initiatives that had started in Toronto at the time including ethereum so since about 2015 when ethereum launched I had basically been following it since I haven't really contributed I would say in any significant form until I joined chainsafe in 2021 and uh it just was a perfect fit the timing worked out well and uh was like hey maybe I should you know not just hold ether but maybe actually do something to help the

ecosystem out and the lodestar was sort of my um my way into uh really helping out the ethereum community with hopefully becoming the global settlement layer of the world oh excellent and now tell tell me a little bit more about it maybe I should understand a little bit more about lodestar but what what is it is it is subsidiary or is it a project team of a larger institution and and how did how did lodestar get started out of that organization yeah so actually um our previous CTO he's now our CPO at chainsafe his name is uh Greg Marco he is at Greg the Greek on Twitter uh was uh one of the the I guess the brainchild

of lodestar in his mind um it was very important for us to um include some sort of a JavaScript type implementation into um what was known at the time as eth2 e 2.0 um when they were launching um you know a bunch of research and stuff into creating what is now you know the beacon chain um you know JavaScript runs on pretty much like everything as you can say so it was very important that we supported that part of the ecosystem when it comes to um the ethereum beacon chain and eth 2.0 uh vitalik I believe back in 2018 or 2019 had you know first granted chainsafe

um as part of this uh YOLO sort of donation to a bunch of client teams to to really get started on uh the proof of stake stuff um included lodestar as part of that so from there on it kind of expanded and chainsafe you know kept uh contributing in many different ways to the JavaScript ecosystem in the E 2.0 community and that is sort of you know how we grew over time and um now sort of have become a production ready client uh as of really like we we proposed our first block on me that in November 2021 but we officially got the endorsements and um

you know the audit done to ensure that EF was happy with uh us being the fifth consensus clients um earlier this year actually um and the lodestar team are basically you know uh we are you know chain safe contributors or or people that work for chainsafe and um chainsafe is basically a protocol r d uh sort of Dev shop uh we do a lot of different things and protocol contributions is one of them and we do that for ethereum through lodestar oh excellent now besides client diversity I mean rockapole is uh a very much uh client diverse and it's this front part of our ethos but besides uh

the diversity aspect what are some of the um attributes of lodestar that may differentiate it from the other clients like what are what are some of the selling points that I as a node operator would want to use lodestar yeah so node operations is really just one target audience of lodestar um for sure with when it comes to node operators the client diversity narrative is definitely uh the strongest I would say um obviously we have you know five different consensus layer client teams for uh diversity you know just in case uh one fails there's at least you know four others to sort of help progress the chain along so there's really no doubt

that you know the diversity aspect is probably close to number one if not the biggest incentive for running lodestar I think what a lot of people fail to understand is when you are staking it's not just about necessarily how much money you can make based on choosing you know a client with like the best performance but it's also important to understand the risks when using a majority type client for example with the um chappella hard Fork that we just recently did um there you know was a slight issue with uh with prism as an example but let's just say the you know uh the consensus bug was large enough that all

of the prism validators fell off then that would be like what 30 percent of the network when do you think about it in these terms it's very important to understand that you know if 30 of the network goes offline the penalties for uh inactivity and leakage is is a lot larger so uh when you're thinking about which clients to use it's very important to consider the risk of using a majority client um so really it's not just about like the uh the performance and even if you you know go on beaconsod.in and you know try to compare some load star nodes with some of the other ones the profitability difference

is is not significant enough in my opinion to really uh be like hey I'm not going to use lodestar or something because it's like making slightly less money or anything like that so it's just a different Viewpoint I guess that people should consider when it comes to node operations uh and then of course we also Target um you know the developer Community um with lodestar so we are completely written in typescript um and obviously JavaScript is probably one of if not the most used language with developers in the world so we basically opened up this ecosystem of protocol development to the largest group of developers in

the world which is very important when it comes to ensuring that we can create a vibrant and thriving ecosystem where we can include as many contributors or potential contributors to the protocol Community as possible so we like to identify ourselves as like a client that is very useful for people to build things on top of to potentially hack around with to be able to do a lot of research and development with and that would be like another target audience of lodestar oh excellent you kind of brought it up a little bit but what was it like to be a part of the client team during the last

four here during chappella what was what what was your experience like during yeah I think it's uh really cool to get to be a part of you know this this community in which uh a lot of the work that we do and all the client teams do it's you know we have a lot of responsibility on our shoulders and we have a lot of incentive to ensure that we you know uh upgrade ethereum with the least amount of turbulence possible um and it's it's always exciting but it's a little bit nerve-wracking too um but you know a lot of us in the community have you know done our due diligence with the help of like you know the EF devops team who runs you know a

bunch of um like mainnet Shadow forks and stuff to ensure client compatibility between all the different client teams and to really sift out bugs um to minimize uh the potential for things to go wrong on mainnet and um I would say it's it's really like an honor to be part of a client team um not a lot of people see protocol development as like you know something uh that is easy to do but also you know will enrich you to to the point of you know uh to a point of view just buy a ton of ether and just sitting on it so um I I guess like the altruism perhaps the the sort of fact that you have a large

voice in in how ethereum can Shape Up um it's just it if it was the 90s and I was contributing to like HTTP like knowing that HTTP survived you know decades and is still being used today is like you know quite a bit of an honor to be part of and I think that's the thing that drives me and keeps me going oh awesome and certainly you know like like rocket pole many of the folks probably listening to the caller on node operator side versus the liquid staking token side of the house and so we you know we benefit greatly from the client teams right I mean rocketpool does not have our own client we simply just

incorporate all the all the open source um clients that are out there both on the consensus layer and the execution layer right and as I mentioned before lodestar is one of the ones are our node operators could select from so a couple of questions is one is so you know we as a community are benefiting greatly from your efforts and load star efforts how can how can the rocket pool Community um provide value back to load star what what can we do to help you guys I think a lot of it is just getting more users to actually run lodestar I think what we kind of lack at the moment is is having it battled tested by more people in the community

you know we obviously run some validators as well at chainsafe as a Lido node node operator it helps us collect you know metrics and being able to understand how we perform against other clients and and really is like you know a good way for us to capture data and uh enable us to make our clients you know perform better and just to to catch issues and of course there's like an incentive for us to to not screw this up um I I think when it comes to uh rocketpool node operators obviously we want people to try to run this stuff because uh we don't have all of the devices in the

world to try this on um we've found actually a lot of um some bugs relating to like arm builds uh that we figured out because of Rocket pool um so I think really just you know especially with this incentive program the whole point of it is to ensure that we can get as many people trying load store as possible and that's really our goal coming out of this and where the rocketpool community can really help us out and make us a better client oh excellent excellent and uh I also understand that you got uh an incentive program right now to kind of help and entice uh some node operators

independent node operators to switch over to lodestar you want to share a little bit more about that and tell us how it applies to rock and pull yeah of course um so we kind of uh brainstormed this uh maybe about like a few months back as to how we can get more people to start using modestar and uh unfortunately at the protocol level there is no real incentive uh outside of altruism that will incentivize people to switch and try lodestar so we had to figure out other ways to to sort of make this happen and um chainsafe has basically you know put up uh 20 000 USD into this uh this pool for this incentive program and then due to the gracious uh donation

of each Staker uh the entire prize school is now 25 000 USD um this program is basically a bit of an experiment for us because we want to figure out other ways for us to incentivize people to switch to lodestar without having to rely on altruism um so now there's like a little bit of a financial aspect to it um and a little bit of like a game in terms of uh it's a bit of a lottery as well with um with this program so uh there are obviously some rules uh in place there is a blog post on uh blog.chainsafe.io for the full information I'm just going to you know

very quickly try to uh um guide I guess you guys on of what this incentive program is and and how you can easily be part of it it's really um you know by running a beacon node and validator client with lodestar we want people to propose blocks of odd star um as a way to signal that um you know you're trying it out um and I think that's really what we want to get out of it we are actively trying to um I guess sort of uh have an overview of how many people are actually doing this um and switching over to lodestar that would be like a great metric for us to

collect here I think it's important that um that we figure out whether or not an experiment like this actually works so the main idea of this incentive program is that we have this pool of money in which we will distribute um amongst eligible block proposers um and we're specifically targeting solo stakers here um we've purposefully excluded large node operators uh such as the ones that are contributing to uh to Lido as an example or anybody with um over 360 each in total so we've kind of put these rules in place which you can

see in the blog post that will um allow you to um to sort of see whether or not you're eligible and generally you know rocket pool node operators I would assume uh are Solo stickers um you know it's generally people who um are who maybe hold like one two less than 10 uh nodes basically so these are the people that we want Target uh it's a five month duration so it are it started um slightly before the chappella hard Fork um I believe I posted this March 23rd we were giving people five months to be able to propose a

block with lodestar to be eligible for collecting uh a piece of this prize pool so this prize pool is eligible to people who are proposing blocks of load star and we can verify it through something called block prints um I don't know if I fully explained everything or if there's any additional questions specifically Ken that that you'd want to ask about it yeah I'm watching our kind of uh channel in our Discord called the trading trading channel it's more of our community channel in there to see if there's questions but I I think I got the gist of it you know we just launched um our new contract upgrades Atlas and

they allow for uh eight eth mini pools so that means that it only takes eight of the node operator to form a validator now and so yeah if I understood you correctly 360 eth of the node operator divided by eight that would be 45 Mini pulls so I think I think our our node operators that are running 45 minute poles or less which is the vast majority of them and we do have some whales out there that are running hundreds but the vast majority I would say they're below 45 Mini pools would be eligible and and I if I recall correctly um we already have a uh a um kind of a little bit of graffiti that goes on that correlates to um to lodestar there's a set of uh two

character codes that Joe has implemented that kind of indicate what our validators are running unless somebody's overwritten it and kind of have to hack the code a little bit to overwrite it so we we should already be posting a fingerprint or a breadcrumb on the uh on the uh the beacon chain about what our client diversity is and I I think I read that those um Native uh rocket pole fingerprints um uh little breadcrumbs will uh will qualify uh our node operators for the contest so I I think unless I'm hearing it wrong that all they have to Simply do is go into the Tui switch from their their consensus layer of choice scroll down the list the lodestar and hit enter

and just let the uh let the smart stack switch over your client you will experience a 15-minute wait as it switches the clients and just reassures that the this lashing window has passed because they're different slashing databases but it's literally literally as simply as easy as just going into the 2E selecting loads star and hit enter yeah unfortunately um I I unfortunately I'm not a rocket pool operator yet so I definitely don't know the um the the user experience of switching over but just from hearing what you've said Ken it sounds like it's a very simple switch on the the smart node stack and huh

yeah yeah it really it really is I think that's one of the personally one of the benefits of Rocket pulling not only inclined diversity but in the event if there was an instance uh and I've certainly had my my luck of choosing uh choosing a couple of the clients that didn't fare too well through a couple of the upgrades and uh you know try to stay with them uh through a little bit of the turbulence but uh decided to switch over at some point to give the teams time and it's just super easy with rocket pull like like I said it's 30 seconds of work and a 15 minute wait and that's about it nice that's really good to hear um I I think I may have misspoken a little bit earlier I I heard you say um 360 eighth I'll go over like just

some of the like the rules here I think it might be useful and if people have questions we can go from there yeah yeah please how many like what's what what are the eligibility requirements please of course so actually um I'll start here with my blog post so number one the graffiti in which you already mentioned when it comes to um rocket pool we've accepted the rocket pool acronyms in in the graffiti now because it was at the request of you guys in the community because of the the limited amount of characters we can have them on the graffiti so we do accept you know the um the RRP hyphen uh GS NS BS and Xs

um as part of the um the graffiti requirements now for a solo validator it would have just been like the lodestar text uh the reason why we modified is of course so that um it works you know kind of out of the box I guess for for Rocket pool node operators which is nice this just basically signals to us which blocks to look at when we are when we hit the five month duration of when this program is uh is sort of open and eligible um and then from that point on we'll actually use something called block print to verify that uh the blocks that were proposed are likely from a load star client um and then there's like you know some

other technicalities and stuff within using block print that um that might be a bit out of scope for this call but basically the idea of using block print is that it helps us verify outside of the graffiti requirements whether or not somebody actually proposed a block likely with lodestar or if they were just trying to game the graffiti so that's why we use that next up is the unique deposit address so when you deposit um into the E2 deposit contract on the execution layer usually you usually as a solo operator would you know do it through a unique sort of deposit address if you were you

know perhaps like a Lido node operator chances are you probably use the same deposit address for multiple maybe hundreds or even thousands of validators on the blockchain so when we do put the blocks through the blockbird crawler and it turns out that yes these are lodestar likely lodestar proposed blocks we'll check the deposit address just to make sure that um you know it comes from something unique um in terms of Rocket pool we had to have a slight modification because of the way the mini pools kind of work so because you have 16 and eight mini pools um which are basically contracts we had

to ensure that the deposit address when it comes to the uniqueness of it is what actually gets deposited to the mini pool contracts themselves and not um I guess the the the sort of mini pool contract itself so if you're using you know a deposit address to deposit your ether into mini pool contracts as long as that deposit address does not come from um from an address that has you know in total 320 eth um of deposits no matter what combination could be a combination of Solo or 60 Neath mini pools or 80th mini

pools um the idea of limiting this is so that we're not targeting whales um we'd like to see that it's more solo stakers that are actually um part of this incentive program so we kind of arbitrarily you know chose 320 eth as that upper limit so that's why we have to verify the unique deposit address oh got it so so it would be 10 . oh sorry I think I lost you there Ken for a second you said oh yeah I was gonna say so if I'm understanding that 320 eth of deposits on the beacon chain would mean a rocket

pull node operator that's running um 10 mini poles so at 30 32 each even though the Le contributed you know 80s per mini pull it's it's still node operators running 10 10 validators or classes what what you're targeting yeah exactly I mean like look if you could gain this if if you really wanted to but you know the it's quite a bit of work because if you're going to you know um use more than 320 each uh in your possession to you know perhaps uh do some sort of a civil attack where you have different uh deposit addresses um creating a bunch of different mini pools and stuff like like this the stuff that we we understand May potentially

happen I have no idea but this is why this rule exists is so that we don't Target people who personally have more than 320 eth at their disposal yep totally total makes total sense seems very fair and very exciting to have such an incentive program to you know help encourage diversity of the clients in there so I it looks like a lot of fun yeah yeah that's great and I think like so when I was talking to each Staker about this one of the uh things that they mentioned to me was they really want to see how successful this program is in perhaps switching some people to even at least try lodestar um because there might be ways for us to help get all client teams to a 20 share

of the validator network which is the most ideal um sort of disbursement of um of client usage for the blockchain the the sort of the healthy sort of uh division of the pie um so if this is great there who knows we somebody might take this concept and and expand upon it we could maybe even have some sort of a public funds uh pool of some sort in the next round or something but these are just ideas floating around so this is why you know we're actively keeping an eye on on this program to see what happens yeah yeah yeah absolutely yeah um well Phil we've we've covered quite a quite a number of things about lodestar and

lodestar's new incentive program to encourage adoption of the consensus layer client are there any things that we didn't cover uh today that you feel is important for us to the Rock and pull Community to know about lodestar um I think it's uh important I guess like we mentioned before the best way you can help us out is actually just trying to run lodestar um lodestar is uh definitely going to be hopefully be one of the um the more used clients at some point maybe maybe not even necessarily for staking but maybe even just for like experimentation stuff but the best way you can help us out is running it and if you encounter any sort of issues um letting us know about it

um I think the only way that we can ensure that we're stronger clients and to remain uh very useful and viable to the community is that more people run it and and we can fix more of the problems that we have together and I think that's the the best thing that that the community can really help us with yeah absolutely well it has been an absolute pleasure to have you Phil come on the call and share a little bit more and I encourage you to stop by trading and stop by and say hi to everybody in the community definitely thank you so much Ken it was great to speak to you guys and uh yeah feel free to join um our Discord at the chainsafe Discord as well we have our websites

um lodestar.chainsafe.io which is our basically our splash page to getting some information about lodestar awesome okay well I'm gonna go ahead and show you before you switch gears let me just send trajectory yeah I'm taking a look at the graffiti now so far based on proposals it looks like we have somewhere between 20 and 25 validators that are running it right now oh that is awesome if you if you also look in well you can also do the basic math yourself but if if we just have 25 eligible blocks at this point that's quite a bit of change I guess for each one of them so

quite a good incentive yeah so I know if officially uh the the smart node that we use for mainnets didn't have like load star support until just a couple of weeks ago so it looks like uh people are already taking that opportunity even though it's a short window to start switching over and try it out just cool to see amazing yeah great great to see and then just even browsing through uh Beacon shot right now looking at the slots there's definitely um there's definitely some people here even outside of Rocket pool that I've been participating which is nice to see as well yeah if you uh if you feel if you throw a co-op in there as well too I bet you'll probably double your numbers that's actually a great idea you're the

second person to suggest this to me yeah the racquetball Community has an irrational thing for going crazy about poet so absolutely definitely that's uh definitely not out of the question we will consider that excellent excellent well okay I'll go ahead and transition the call over to just uh the regular Community items feel you're more than welcome to continue and hang on and and listen in if you like if you have to go we certainly understand that but do stop by trading and at least say hi to the gang in there um but Joe and MAV it's it is now post Atlas I do not have to begin today's call with asking Lynn Atlas I'll have to figure out what else to ask for but uh

how was uh how was your experience Bo if I heard a I heard me I have a little bit about you and the little Chit Chat the little impromptu chit chat but what do you think in the day after Atlas uh maybe Joe will start with you first yeah I'm happy to start I mean I've basically been awake since it launched uh we at the team we try to take turns but like we go in shifts watching the uh the logs on the watchtowers watching the protocol making sure that things are working properly that the Oracle now is functioning correctly that the the node is doing its job properly and that there aren't any sort of like cataclysmic bugs that node operators are running into that kind of stuff uh and so I'm I'm on

the shift now and as the guy kind of built the Watchtower I guess it was on the shift when first launched uh basically just puddling things and so I have been trying to take breaks occasionally to interact with the community and just keep things fairly lighthearted and see what's going on in the sport Forum see if anybody needs help with anything major I mean there are lots of minor things lots of people that uh aren't super familiar with it may not be familiar with the documentation and need a little bit of handle like as to what's changed and how to do things like uh access their Beacon chain Capital that kind of stuff but for the most part it seems like it was actually a very successful fork with I don't know exciting issues or turbulence or at all which is

um I'm not sure I believe it quite yet I'm just sort of sitting here watching these Vlogs waiting for something to break and nothing is breaking and so I'm slowly building confidence that that we actually did it right you know it was good I think I'll Echo that from my non-technical perspective uh for a little while I was kind of sitting around waiting for the first problem to crock up it just seems such a uh a significant and important upgrade um and to have it go through without even the smallest of hiccups I think it's a real Testament to uh the skill of my colleagues but at least for me most

of my time has been just seeing what people are saying about Atlas um and on Twitter and the various types of media coverage which is still rolling through um unlike Joe I have been able to grab a little bit of sleep but even in that um five hour or so period And there's still a lot more chatter coming through and I think once we kind of roll around to that 24-hour period since launch or or even um 36 hours we've got like 24 hours of um new Mini polls coming through and some of these metrics in terms of growth start to get out there and we'll probably see a second wave of of

attention I think when you start to see some of these really big one day 24-hour um growth metrics uh I think a lot of people will uh will be pretty surprised but overall it was a pretty incredible experience to be a part of of course as a tradition my main purpose for these things is just to uh go on camera and drink beer out of the shoe but more than happy to contribute that and I see some people manage to get a couple of good screen grabs of it this time around so I don't know if we need a new emote in in the Discord but um that beer tasted pretty good yeah I was thinking uh you know when you

go check in with the family and uh you know a relative says hey man what did you do at work today uh I don't know how you go about explaining that one but I give you absolute credit for doing that now twice um tell me a little bit uh maybe Joe or maybe have like what what Telemetry do we have on this uh this Atlas I mean have you guys taken a second to kind of measure how it's performing how how many mini pools how many new lebates um you know I'm seeing some Stats come through but what are your what are you looking at on your consoles I I can certainly start with that so what we're looking at primarily is we've got you know the standard node operator

refund dashboard and then at the bottom it shows you some stats on like the rocketpool network as a whole so we certainly have that which is quite useful for keeping tabs on like how big the deposit pool is how many manipuls there are uh how many nodes there are like the node actual accounts and things like that and then we have some supplemental stuff that is just for the Watchtower so the the Oracle that that kind of takes a look at the scrub checks uh to validate that you know people are Bond reducing properly they're not in violation of the rules for that they're solo stick or migrating properly their new Mini pools are being created properly and no one's trying to front room the deposit or anything like that we've got all that stuff up as well and so we're just mostly keeping tabs on

those scrub checks to make sure that everything is going well because part of the scrub checks as you can see individually how much of each category people are doing so for example I was kind of giving some numbers throughout the night at the highest point we saw something like 1600 or 1650 simultaneous Bond reactions going through the scrub check um and that number has slowly tapered off as people exit that 12-hour period and then more commands which has kind of been hanging out at around 1100 right now and that seems to be consistent for for the most part there's a lot of bond reductions coming through it seems like a lot of people are certainly taking advantage of the conversion from a 16th and they pulled out to an eight

we see over a thousand new Mini pools being created there are 750 in pre-launch right now and that a bunch of them got out of pre-launch out of the 12 hour scrub deck already node operators are actually fairly small we saw something like 21 new node operators show up uh if that's and so around 20 I would say over the last 24 hours so it seems like the bulk of the activity is coming from people that are already in the ecosystem they already have mini pools that they're running they already have nodes that they've registered that kind of thing and we see a lot of well earlier on we saw a lot of people once they had finished the bond reduction process make a second mini pool for free which is what led

migration gives you but that has certainly tapered off in the last couple of hours and I think that's primarily because the network gas cost is really high right now and it's just not worth it with the break even points is quite high so they're waiting for death to come down a little bit in full disclosure I'm among those people I'm waiting for it to go back down to the 40s well yeah let me let me let me explore that just with you a little bit because I spent some time helping folks out in support and um I do agree that I think most of our uh you know day one growth has been people inside the system taking advantage of the LED AIDS but uh let me let me ask just a little bit of questions on this thing that seem to cause a lot of confusion it might be

good to go through I guess the first thing is sure but before you really could do anything you've got to do this mini pull delegate update or upgrade right uh and there's a couple of ways to do that can you can you explain that one more time as as folks are are um coming in here what what does it mean to update your delegate and and why are we doing it and how how do they do that okay I'm Gonna Keep it really brief um because I could go into very detailed descriptions about this uh the long story short is every validator is tied to a mini pool the mini pool is a contract on the execution layer right it's one validator to one mini bolt

they're uniquely paired like that and um the mini pool contract itself actually has very little functionality it's just Bare Bones it's not got a lot of stuff in there but we take advantage of a kind of property uh or a feature that ethereum provides that allows you to extend the contract so to speak by pointing it at a delegate and that's a second contract that lives somewhere that has supplemental functionality extra functionality that the contracts basically adopts right and the idea with Atlas was we created a new what's called mini pool delegates that's a new contract that is kind of a common thing and so everybody's individual mini pools

can point to this one contract to gain lots of extra functionality for example the atlas delegate knows how skipping works it knows how to deal with skimmed rewards which the original rocketpool delegate did not because it wasn't in the spec at that time just had full withdrawals and that was it so when I say or when the documentation asks you to upgrade your Delegate for your mini pool what it really means is if they they're asking you to run a command using the CLI that points your mini pool to this new delegate contract this new contract that has its new functionality instead of the old one so your mini pools can all adopt that new functionality it's an opt-in process and that's by Design to make sure that if

something goes horribly wrong and the Oracle dial gets compromised and they push a mini pool delegates that is malicious that you as the node operator can simply choose to ignore that if they can't rug you essentially so it's an opt-in feature that you have to purposefully do but in this case um the the mini pool delegate is something that we built you know we trusted we've had it audited we've had to test it on the test Nets we're confident that it does what it's supposed to do and adds the proper functionality so we encourage everybody to upgrade to that take advantage of some of the new features that was that is like being able to do skim your access your skinned rewards via what's called a distribution or to um migrate your Maples from a 16 ether Bond down to

an 8 ether and things like that that's all stuff that the new delegate sports but the old one does not you can answer that question yeah yeah it does and so I think if your listing code is a node operator or just you know if you haven't done it yet you're you're gonna have to do it to either get your Rewards or to um convert any existing mini pools uh back so it's kind of like you don't have a choice really I guess you could well even in this one you can't really quit and get your money back so you gotta this is kind of like a forced upgrade if you think about it right there's not really a pathway not to upgrade out of here um because withdraws aren't enabled in the in the version one of the mini pool delegate right we're on version two the

atlas version um tell me a little bit now about uh the consensus layer rewards I think it was very confusing for folks to realize that there's two different um flow Pathways right there's execution layer rewards that are coming into our smoothing pool and our mini pool contracts but now consensus layer rewards are a little different can you just you know briefly tell us how that flow works and how do people get paid for the couple of years of validating that they've done how do I start getting my consensus layer Rewards yeah so this is all covered in the documentation quite thoroughly and so if anyone were to ask uh like in in Discord for help on this I'll just point them

right to the docs which covers it all but uh to cover her briefly there are five kind of flavors slash sources of rewards for being a validator on the beacon side you have attestations you've got the beacon portion of block proposals you've got sync committees and then on the execution side for a block proposal you've got the execution portion which is things like Mev or transaction priority fees and then you've got your RPL Awards as well and those uh those five different types are kind of split based on where they live either on the consensus layer or on the execution layer so on the consensus layer all of those rewards kind of accrue into your validator balance and

now that Chappelle is out occasionally it's like every five or six days or whatever the protocol itself without any interjection on your behalf is automatically going to take the excess the rewards everything Beyond a 32 ether for that validator and it's going to submit it to your mini pool I mentioned earlier that each validator has its own unique mini pool contract it's a one-to-one mapping and so that's kind of what allows us to do this is each validator's balance will essentially get skimmed which is taking the the rewards portion above 32 ether and put down into the Min equal contract on the execution side and that is done and I think Joe I think it's important to mention there that

there's there's nothing the node operator can do to stop that or start that it's automatic and there's no gas not sucking any gas to do that it's something ethereum is doing right yep it fakes directly into the protocol itself it doesn't require transaction it doesn't require you to like voluntarily submit things or being the running the node process or anything just happens all right so that's the the consensus side of things essentially is going to put each of your validated rewards into each mini pool contract so it is uh one contract per validator which means that the consensus layer rewards if you have

a couple of many pools are going to be split across a couple of contracts and so you're gonna have to call into each contract individually and run what's called a distribute which splits your Rewards or splits the balance of that coming evenly between yourself and the re Staker is taking into account your commission for your node and giving that to you as well so that's sort of like a many-to-many kind of thing the second portion you mentioned the execution layer Awards those behave differently for sure all of those the execution layer awards does things like the priority fees you get when you propose a block nav rewards RPL rewards inflation rewards that kind of stuff all of that goes to you uh one contract

within your note so that's sort of like a many to one thing so if you have lots of mini pools all of those Awards will accumulate in a single spot if you are in the smoothing pool they will go to the smoothing pool and you will be given a share of those based on your performance at the end of each interval each 28 day rewards period and you can just claim that with your RPL rewards they're all attached to the same file if you're not in the smoothing pool first of all you should be in the smoothing pool and second of all uh that will go to your fee distributor instead which is a unique contract tied to your node itself so all of your mini pool rewards go to that central location that one fee distributor contract and the way you distribute those I think

it's like a in the CLI instructable no distribute fees or something like that I believe that's the command foreign yeah yeah I think so as well too and I think a couple of interesting things is it's just like so how does this play out in reality right like I think for many of us we probably claim our execution layer you know our smoothing pull over boards and our RPL inflation right we you know there's not an automatic process for that right you go and you manually claim it most of us probably do it every 28 days or some of us may let it um you know let it accumulate and just claim it all at once right there's no there's no expiration anymore you can just leave it there or you can claim it

right um same thing I guess a little different though is on the consensus layer right back to the mini polls it it's not the consensus layer rewards are not going to just one mini pull contract they're going to each mini pull contract that you have right and um you know there there is I guess a trigger point built into the Tui at one eth right that will fire off when they reach one East and unless you've gone in and changed it in the 2E um for many of us getting two years worth of validating rewards it probably had more than two Ethan there um but uh folks you know can still manually claim it but they should probably wait till it builds up I mean

there's no reason to go claim it every six days out of these contracts would be spending more especially today we'd be spending more in gas but you would be earning rewards I I think the ideal is it's got to kind of accumulate in these mini pull contracts until it's makes it you know financially worth it to claim right am I thinking this right or thinking it wrong yeah so I mean ultimately the decision is yours as the node operator you can do whatever you want I would advise that you let it accumulate to make it more gas efficient to to actually do the cleaning because the gas cost is claiming it's kind of a fixed number but there are words you get depend on how much is actually in the balance so letting it just slowly build up and then doing equally and when it's kind of cost

efficient to do is certainly the right way to go but you don't have to you can you can claim every six days if you so choose I don't think that's a great idea but we give you the option too sure yeah okay okay perfect yeah thank you for just kind of walking that through because I think it's it's something different I think the community gets a little confused over it and you know these com these processes do get a little complex all together so um I think you know once we go through a couple of uh a couple of cycles of this thing then it becomes second nature to us um but let's let's talk a little bit about something I'm very excited about and I gotta tell you I'm having fomo because I haven't done this yet I'm trying to be uh I'm trying to be a

little bit more mature and conservative instead of just keeping into everything um but uh tell us about these LEDs right there's a lot of confusion in this process right um and I was thinking about it I really think that it's kind of a four-step process right there's you know there's this you know Bond beginning the bond reduction there's reducing the bond then there's forming the second lebate using the credits and then finally you know finalizing or staking that that lev8 um can you walk us through slowly each of these four steps and just tell us like what are the rules or what are the you know what are the time limits do I manually do it like when does this happen

um just because support has been going crazy over these things so walk us through it slowly and explain it to us like we're five if you can yeah so again this is this is something that is covered quite thoroughly in the documentation and the guides and I would encourage anybody who has can kind of confusion or questions to read that first and then come back with questions about what that says just because it covers the bulk of what you're asking for I won't go into the rules per se of like what counts as uh legal versus illegal it's it's too much to get into for that but it's all there on the documentation site but I can walk you through the steps the basic stuff and talk about the typing I can certainly do that so the way to you're asking basically

how do I take if I have one active 16 ether mini pool today how do I convert it into two active lebates that's what you're asking right yeah that's what I'm asking and assume I've got enough RPL staged that I don't have to worry about feeding it anymore RPL I just want to take my F16 and make it to two lebates okay so yeah we're going to assume that the RPL side of the house has been taken care of and I'm going to ignore that then so the first step is going to be What's called the bond reduction and this is kind of a it has two sub steps if you will uh you start off by running the command rocketpool mini pool begin Bond reduction and that will trigger the

your mini pool to sort of enter this special phase where a bond reduction is pending you have stated your intention to reduce this mini pool from a 16 down to an eight and in so doing game a ether worth of credit you can use to make a second Maple we'll get to that later but you've sort of stated your intent here and then you have a 12 hour window it's called The Scrub check one of several scrub checks that we're paying attention to that I mentioned earlier where the Oracle dial is going to monitor your mini pool and ensure that it satisfies the criteria for Bond reduction eligibility so the beginning process is not actually reducing your bond it is simply stating

the intent I would like to reduce the bond miracle that will ensure that your mini pool is eligible for Bond reduction that takes 12 hours once that process is done and you can check on how long it has by looking at the node logs that's rock and roll service logs node once that's done the node will either automatically reduce the bond of your mini pool if the network gas is within the threshold that you've specified for automatic transactions or you can do so manually if you so cheers you can automatically introduce the bot yourself and I think that's the rocket Bowl mini pool reduce bond with the command port and this is this is the part where everybody who last night at the launch

of Atlas began the bond reduction this is where everybody uh is probably coming up on right is they're in this reduced Bond period probably yeah so you want to take a look at your node logs and once the time is done uh if it doesn't automatically reduce the bond because the network gas is too high for your particular setup then you can either wait for Network gas to come lower or do it manually and that reduce bond is the second of those sub steps I mentioned and that is where you originally signaled your intents to reduce the Oracle down gave you the all clear your mini pool is not in violation of any of the sort of like illegal States problems that we would have and so they've given you a pass and you can

go ahead and reduce it and at that point once you trigger the reduction uh what will happen is your collateral will go down to eight ether instead of 16 it'll go down to eight your commission will be sets to 14 doesn't matter what it was before it just gets hard it's up to 14 percent uh and it will do a distribution of the mini pools balance so whatever balance is in the mini pool at the time that you reduced it it will take your original commission rates in your original collateral and it will run a distribute which is basically like splitting the rewards between yourself the node operator and the pool stickers and give them their share giving you your share your share becomes available as a refund that you can claim anytime you want it

doesn't get automatically sent to your metrologist just gets put earmarked as a refund that you can pull out let me ask you some questions on here I'm kind of watching the chat here for some other one so this reduced Bond period right we've cleared the scrub it's been 12 hours the Odell has an objective we've cleared the scrub now there's there's a limited period of time for which people can do this second step the the bond the reduced bond that rocket pool mini pool reduce Bond how how long of a window do people have uh technically you have two days to do it before your mini pool time is up and you have to start over and do it all

over again okay so what happens if you miss it is there is there any damage or is it just lost gas and lost time yeah so there's there's two ways that you can miss it uh the first way is it just times out which beings you are eligible to reduce your bond in this 48-hour period and you just didn't for whatever reason uh and if that happens it's kind of like no harm no foul you start over again you are allowed to begin Bond reduction a second time or a third time or a fourth time or what have you uh all the changes is you have to pay for the gas of the first Bond reduction which it didn't end up doing anything so now you have to pay for a second time and to get another shot at the window uh the second thing that could happen is

your bond reduction was actually scrubbed which is where the Oracle now found you in violation of one of the conditions for Bond reduction and it forced canceled you during that 12-hour window if you get scrubbed then you cannot attempt the bond reduction again you're basically out it is one and done you were flag trade or some kind of violation and that mini pool will stay at 16th of mini pool for the rest of its left okay interesting in what and what's the um I mean what would be the eligibility I guess you're you were slashed or a year less than 32 each I mean what what else besides those things would cause you to not qualify yeah so that's where you should go to the documentation website because it

lists all of the rules very clearly but essentially uh it is if your uh validator has less than 31.99 ether in it like if you've been offline for a long time and got into a bad note operator yeah if your validator has already exited it's already withdrawn or it's been slashed or anything like that on the beacon chain it's ineligible as well uh if it's essentially if it's not staking already and not active on the beacon chain it's ineligible and the CLI will it won't let you do a bond reduction if you are in in illegal States um then we'll complain basically say this guy can't run because of these reasons if you bypass the CLI you try to access the contracts directly that's where the Oracle dance to get involved

in Scorpio okay okay perfect and then uh another question that's coming up here is okay so um you know I've reached this reduced Bond window right I know that the smart node has a gas setting and then the node container is going to realize oh hey I've got a mini pool that could have its Bond reduced and if the gas is below that threshold it will fire the transaction but I've got mine set conservatively around 30 way and right now I'm looking at it we're at 72 Gray right it's just been on fire this last day um so it's not going to automate it right but so then what what happens will it ever accelerate it and force it like it does the the real scrub on a brand

new mini pool or does it accelerate that pricing and ignore it or do I have to go in and manually decide to do it or just let it let it abort and do it again let it time out so the the way that the CLI Handler is rather than the way the Damon handles things right now is it is largely derived from the code used for the mini pool sticking transaction which is the second Beacon deposit frame and able to actually get kicked off and start validating I think it started from the same thing so you have two days between the end of the scrub period and the like the timeout for your bond reduction that's two days long but the the Daemon will

give you 24 hours uh because it's trying to do this automatic um Bond reduction sort of like process this transaction is trying to it finds when one of these things is due and it tries to do it automatically for you and if in the first 24 hours it is unable to do so because gas has been too high for your settings or whatever as soon as that 24 hours is over it's going to try to do it again at whatever the network gas price is it just says like give me the uh so we ask the uh the beacon chain website they have like a gas Oracle that has a rapid price and a fast price and a standard price and that kind of thing we take whatever the rapid price is and we're like just submitted that so whatever the network market price is

just go to make it guaranteed to work and the reason we did that was primarily because we didn't want people to have a bond reduction cancellations and not understand why and have to deal with this again we just want it to work but we're certainly opening to feedback since this is a repeatable process and it can be kind of done again if you miss your window as opposed to many pool Stakes which cannot if people would prefer that way just let it time out and we don't actually Force stake at the current Network house price or whatever we can change that in the future version yeah I think that's a good point so everybody the hundreds if not thousands of uh node operators or validators that have started this process right we're all going to come up in the next uh 12

hours or so to that 24-hour window and so if folks don't do something their node is just going to send uh pay any price transaction to to get it to go through or at least up to the amount of eth of the node wallet right I'm just going to try to force it through yeah and I'll just try to force it through exactly yeah you can disable that certainly but yeah okay it's it's disabling it would disable all of the automatic transactions which isn't recommended if you're planning on spending up your mini pools okay okay okay so I think I think we're we're experiencing and kind of understanding how that reduce Bond window goes and I

think it'd be interesting to see kind of what happens to these uh hundreds of uh validators that are in this window and um you know in the next couple of hours what they decide to do do they let the the smart node just pay full full Market gas prices do we see people trying to control it a little bit looking for some maybe cheaper gas this evening when the US goes to sleep or is it just this is going to be a real busy week in uh in ethereum I'm looking at it now it's at 92 Gray going up here but okay so let's let's say that I was fortunate enough or I just you know I just paid the gas and sucked the cost here and you know and I actually uh go through it I do the bond reduction I'm at a 14 LED Aid and I've

got these eight eat credits in my account uh and I'm guessing this is going to be the next step here what what do people do with those eight eth credits how do I get my second Leva foreshadow for us what is going to happen here and again I know it's probably in the documentation but I don't think anybody's been reading the documentation from my my help in the support Channel yeah so I you're right in the sense of it is all in there and your first line of defense is to link people to the documentation and give them something to read and then they come back with questions that are a little more specific about things that maybe were unclear or things that it didn't quite cover or anything like that but uh by and large that would be the first line

of defense just to go look at the docs for this uh but one thing I want to highlight first and foremost is after the bond reduction is complete and you have converted your 16th or may pull to the 18th of mini pool you are given what's called Eight ether of node credits and this is sort of like an internal bookkeeping balance that's used to determine how much sort of supplemental age you are allowed to pull from the staking pool beyond the original 16 or 24 depending on the the maple you're trying to create next uh this this credit and I want to highlight this because we do get this question sometimes this credit cannot be like withdrawn as liquid a ether and used for whatever you can take it and stick it

into your favorite D5 protocol for example it can only be used for creating new Mini pools within the ecosystem so if you wanted to access it right away you would have to create another medical and then like immediately exit it and then do a distribute just to get the balance back and that kind of thing which is probably going to eat into your emergence a little bit because it costs a lot of gas to do all of that so the intent of it is if you're planning to do this then it means you're going to be spinning up a second mini pool a second led8 does it work uh and you're hopefully going to be in this for the long run just sort of gain and capital as you do as a Staker the process is exactly the same as it was when you first created your mini

pool and understandably it's been a long time since some of you have created many equals but the process is exactly the same you run rockpool node deposit that's the main command for creating a mini pool it's going to ask you how much ether you want to provide and you're going to say eight that's going to be your bond and it will say okay you have eight ether in credit so I'm just going to use the credit balance instead of you needing to provide 80 for yourself you just have to provide zero ether you just have to pay for gas essentially and I will take care of the rest I will pull all 32 ether needed to kick this guy off and put them on the beacon chain I'll pull the entire thing from the sticking pool the deposit pool you don't have to worry about paying for anything

so the node deposits will start the mini pool and you'll get put into the queue uh waiting for uh the match to come in basically the uh let me let me give it Jeff if I can let me let me just ask you a question on the air before you you go to that point because I think there is two things that I I realized in the uh the test net that I think are important is that you know these 80s credits they're they're literally like credits I I could use those eight eth in this example to form my second led8 I think that's what most people are going to do probably for a lot of reasons but I learned you can also just combine two of those maybe you had too many polls you could you could take uh 16 eth worth of credits and make us make a half uh you

know a 16 eighth mini Pole right oh yeah totally if basically the credit system just says whatever Bond you're trying to provide if you have enough credits to cover the bond it will use the credit instead so that can be 16 too that's fine and then the other the other thing I think that's just important to get out there in the community is since you're you're doing this node deposit without any real either you're just cashing in credits um there does have to be at least one eth in the deposit pool I know we're we're kind of approaching uh you know it's still surprisingly doing very well with deposits it's got thousands of Ethan there now but I I don't know about tomorrow um you know so when it starts to get empty the deposit pull gets empty in

order to redeem this there has to be what at least one one eth in there to make that Redemption is that is that correct yeah so this we're getting a little technical here but essentially when you deposit either into the beacon deposit contract on the execution layer to sort of signify that you're you're creating a new validator something that the beacon chain can own it on the smallest deposit you're allowed to do is one ether and so the staking pool has to have for that very first uh deposit sort of Define your medical Define the pubg and stuff uh it has to have one ether in order to do that and since you're with a credit balance you're pulling all 32 either for the validator from the staking pool it

has to have at least one to kind of like trigger this process uh if you if a staking pool is too low and you there's not one eighth or left then you're trying to use a credit balance the CLI will actually like notify you comes up with the boring it says all right we understand you've got a credit balance here there's not enough in the possible to cover it right now so you have two options number one is you wait until deposits come in and then you can do it again or you front the cost yourself and you just leave the credit there uh sort of to use at a later date the choice is yours oh interesting and uh Joe there's no there's no time limit right if I've got these 80th credits I can I don't have a a window that's collapsing on me I can I can take

my time and decide what to do with it yeah the credit is a permanent balance doesn't go anywhere it's not like you have 30 days to use it or disappears or whatever perfect perfect okay okay and so Joe you were telling us um I've gone ahead I've done the node deposit there was one Ethan there I'm making my second mini pool and then what so at that point I mean it just acts like a conventional mini pool that was created the only difference is you didn't pay for the uh staking pool did but that is the same process as every other node deposit uh you have 12 hours to go through the scrub check it's a different kind of scrub Jack but the

process is very analogous the Oracle that I was going to verify that your mini pool satisfies all the conditions to actually become a Rockport validator you haven't tried to like front run with the withdrawal credentials or anything without anything malicious and once it passes 12 hours and the Oracle now has given you the all clear you can do the second deposits it's called a stake transaction and that will either happen automatically with via the node process or you can do it manually if you so choose through the CLI it's rocket pool mini pool stake this is the command and that will do the second deposit on the beacon chain thus completing the validators submitting all 32 required

ether to the beacon chain and again you up and running into the beacon queue and ultimately validating okay and because it has been a while since I've made a mini pull even myself here um we cleared the scrub it's a 12 hour scrub thank you I think I had it wrong in my show notes uh then there's a 14-day window right it's a nice long period of time hopefully gas comes below my threshold and my nose yeah yeah so you're talking about the the time between when you're eligible to stick when you actually stick yes that's correct is that do I have that right or no yeah so there's a 14 day timeout between once you become eligible and once you

actually do it and if you don't stake in that 14-day window you get what's called dissolved and that's basically where the Oracle dab considers you to be defuncts and it removes the uh supplemental ether from your mini pool and puts it back in the sticking pool for other people to use okay so in this whole process here that final four step what I'm supposed to be calling steak on my second led8 right the one that I created using my my credits my 80s credits that's the stuff that I don't want to miss right because it's a little tricky to come out of the dissolve state right you really don't want to miss that one is that a is that a fair understanding I would say that's fair yeah missing missing the stake is bad it's it's quite

a pain to get out dissolved and actually get your Capital back it could be done it's not possible but it's really not worth the pain to do with it uh just and and I would say far and wide most people do not give it a second thought uh as far as like actually running it they will do the node deposit and then they will let the the node demon stake automatically for them once the timing is right because it knows how to like check to see whether or not uh something is stakeable and then actually about the transaction so yeah like 99 of note operators don't even know that there's a second one the many courses sort of stakes itself automatically once the timing gets right yeah yeah I think that's a good point I mean my I guess my advice to folks is

just just know the process and and know as you're creating these led AIDS especially the second one you made with credits which will you know slightly start happening today and later on um I mean just pay attention to it just in case something does go wrong you you know we don't want to see the uh the the emails out of the announcement Channel as you know anyone with the node operator address you know you left your lunch that hasn't called steak yet you know uh that's exactly right yeah yeah you don't want to be that person so just just keep an eye on it it should work if you have problems come to support but um just just I guess kind of be aware of that so well thank you Joe for kind of

explaining that I think it helps everybody to kind of hear it again as they're experiencing it uh maybe it went in one ear out the other before Atlas but now that they're experiencing it in real life I think it's just becoming more apparent and there's just a lot of questions so thank you for explaining it for the umpteenth time no problem happy to help guys yeah um well so as we kind of get to the end of this thing here let me check in with math he's been kind of patiently waiting off to the side here and just uh you know you talked about potential problems I think there's only two that I see one gas is just uh freakingly uh high today I don't know why it is that rocketpool always chooses to launch on the day that gas is just astronomical I don't know uh

what it is about that but then the other thing here is we're real quickly going to run into a node operator lean environment or uh or maybe it's a sorry I guess it's an r e fleen environment right where the you know the deposit pool is starting to approach zero here may I have what what what are your thoughts or when when when when marketing uh when are they going to hire somebody to help you with marketing uh can can you do anything to fix this uh potentially um certainly pros and cons of operating on the blockchain that people actually use right and looking at the gas now 74 and as it come down a little bit still

um it feels like not that long ago we were having single digit guests right but in terms of um marketing maybe I'll just um ramble for a little bit I have a hard stop at the half hour because I do have some marketing to do I've got a call with a protocol um one of many because as we know and as you've kind of mentioned Ken um it's an exciting new time for the re side of the protocol so when we talk about marketing a lot of the time um this introductory piece some of the listers may already be familiar with uh I think people can kind of confuse it with

um paid advertising right I mean to be clear that's more or less the commonly accepted definition of the term when it's using the industry right in the context of wind marketing um so for rocketpool in particular we are in a little bit of an interesting position right um as we've kind of gone through 2023 there has been a little bit more regulatory attention on the world of liquids taking and we do have examples and we do know that when protocols or companies or exchanges have kind of run a foul of um of The Regulators a lot of the time what is actually being looked at is the

marketing documentation so what is a protocol saying about itself um some of the red flags that might be raised in terms of aprs or Rewards or talking about particular tokens um kind of creates a situation where it may be a little bit better to step back from using some of these terms at least from rocket pool itself I am getting to a certain point here but we just built up a little bit of context first so um if I thought about Atlas a few months ago um the the environment in my head was a little bit different right I was

thinking that there would be some competition more competition we've seen this a lot um protocols talk about liquid shaking decentralized Liquors taking it seems pretty straightforward I think we know that it may not be as easy as it seems it's all very well to say you're launching something but it's kind of a case of believing it when you see it so from the two sides of the protocol that we have the no no credit side the Irish side um obviously irith makes for an easier advertising Target right it is it is kind of difficult to um to advertise to note operators or potential node

operators can be done there are student channels but a lot of the kind of more standard uh ways of going about this Banner is and the like they may work but certainly in terms of your CPA which is a metric we use in marketing or cost per acquisition it's probably going to be pretty high you're going to have to run a lot of ads you're gonna have to spend a lot of money um to Target a few people and right now yeah to reiterate for Rocket pool um there's not really a whole lot of uh other protocols out there especially in on the Node operator side so short term yes we're probably going to see a lack of arith demand but thankfully there are

ways that we can and we are working to stimulate this so um on the one side we have we have things like dap node which is launching soon so that will help to increase the the nodal Creator side um some of the initiatives of course like that can potentially put the protocol and just take off being less balanced but still it's a pretty good timing um regardless if you think about the long term the deck the big picture for for depth mode to launch this support now with the Hyperion Atlas so we we're assuming that there is going to be a significant period where the deposit

pool is empty but at the end of the day there is really no guarantee so we're unlikely to ever be filling out as quickly as under premium right I think people need to consider that that was a quite unique situation where there was a significant price premium where there were Bots making instant deposits and that's kind of like not a normal situation that we're going to begin and we would we should expect to see deposits uh trickle in over a period of time there's going to be a slight period of re-educating the market that that Ari is um a pretty viable token a competitor to STS you can get it

now whereas in the past any kind of uh calculations that people might have done in terms of their return or the viability of Iris and D5 always had that um kind of Premium of several months worth of rewards whacked off just to enter a position obviously that's not a concern anymore um and we also do still believe that in the long term whether the long term it's three months or three years that the protocol will be constrained on the Node operator side I think there's a lot of evidence supporting that so you may have seen um I think Joe actually mentioned something last night that some of these deposits that are coming in quite large amounts but there's people there's

institutions there's wallets out there um their size is really size right we've seen four digit deposits where we see five digit deposits while they're certainly wallets out there with five digit amounts of eighth in them and for a lot of people as we know liquid's taking whether it's for tax reasons or for an institution or a company compliance reasons it may be easy to go down the liquids taking roads so these these entities will never um realistically be a known operator so there is um an amount of latent demand there it's just not instant another thing that we have to consider I think is uh we're now in a situation where there's no longer a kind of market

share um play going on well there is but there's another important consideration in terms of growing the pie so a few people have talked about this when we had Justin Drake on a little while ago and that's something that he talks about quite a bit there's this kind of wave of these Liquors takers who because they can access their funds now are more likely to to engage and they probably won't do first on day one and as I said it's kind of a period of of Ridge hitting the market um which we're working on to to encourage these people to stake with rocket pool if you think about the node operator side is it likely that

there will be two three four times the number of um of node operators around to to run many pools with rocket pool I would say that the chances probably low if there's people with the kind of the interests and the skills to do this there's a decent chance um quite a few of these people uh are already running many course right and who knows potentially in the future they may decide to diversify our way into another decentralized option um stakewise V3 Etc but in terms of liquor staking could that 10 15 or so of um eat the state go to 30 or 45 or 60 potentially and there's a pretty good chance that

much of it will be liquid state so that's kind of what um we have to we have to go for right now um there is well there has been a bit of uncertainty right in terms of the competitive landscape in terms of regulatory action and we kind of in a bit of a wait and see mode at least when it comes to this um paid advertising so let me talk about some of the things that we are doing that kind of answer the question of when marketing but potentially in a way that uh that people may not be thinking about when they hear that phrase first up um one thing is that we are quite fortunate in that rocket

pool is big enough to be relevant but still small enough to be able to work closely with someone better I don't like saying the word Partners but at the end of the day some of these um Protocols are kind of our partners who integrate rocketball integrate Iris that we can work with them we can promote irith as an option we have a chain link Oracle and the protocols lack that which is kind of a big stepping stone and there are um a whole lot of exciting things coming up so even some of the Integrations that we have already the direct integration into okx the metamask integration which has kind of been sitting there unable to be used

which is now which is now live these are going to start having an effect in its uh kind of incremental right the more of these Integrations that we have live they um they all help to contribute to filling up this deposit pool uh other things such as um I have a email that's particularly exciting right that's not live yet um in terms of St eth we know that a large part of the adoption of St equals through D5 applications like other emo and personally although I haven't given it too much detailed thought um I feel like there's maybe a Twitter thread that could be written in terms of

uh the the fact that Ari is probably a really an ideal candidate for I have a email right it's similar to um a leveraged position the the risks that you face is a quote-unquote DP of the asset and we've we know that Harry has proven to be more resilient in terms of holding that price and also um we know that there are arguably fewer of certain Terror risks that could cause that dpig we've seen a couple of examples recently of of how that Matt go for more centralized protocols so these are things that

um are going to almost certainly come online they're going to drive a lot of demand and us working with these other protocols it is almost like a well we can Leverage What we what we're doing at Rocket pool right through these other protocols they can reach their their audiences so it may not be as um flashy or provide the uh um kind of uh boost of seeing a rocket called Banner on a website but I believe in terms of the ROI in terms of the impact it is through these Integrations that we can drive a lot of value for Rocket pull and again um big player very dominant but but who else is out there really

um again that that chain link Oracle price feed that we've been waiting for for such a long time is really uh it's a pretty important piece of the puzzle so I've kind of rambled on for a little bit I feel like there may have been um a couple of questions in trading yeah yeah there was there was one uh win Ledger uh I know I think it was langers who's talking to um uh let um Ledger Exodus maybe a couple of others and these are all in the works and they also fall under the same category right um we can do a lot more for for rockpool through some of these uh through some of

these other protocols um I'm fairly confident now that I'm saying this and it ends up on YouTube it's kind of on the record uh I feel like the the kind of imbalance if any will probably be shorter lived than most people think and because there is a lot that we can do um the IMC can help out as well to really drive that uh that Irish size so at the end of the day I understand from a node operator's perspective right we we would ideally want that cue to be full permanently so everyone can launch um all the many calls they like whenever they like unfortunately due to the the way that rocketpool operates as we know and being decentralized permissionless

operating on Smart contracts that's probably not going to be um the case but um yeah I guess bear with us we we are working hard behind the scenes some of these conversations uh have been going on for a long time in the case of bitum the Korean exchange um while I don't expect uh listening at PL to be a kind of massive driver for uh RX usage it is a good example of how kind of discussions that take place over weeks or months can finally come to fruition and there are many of these that are that are happening right now so I'm pretty excited and I do have about two minutes left before I have to jump

off and jump onto one of these yeah yeah no I was just gonna thank you ma'am for kind of everything you're doing both leading up to Atlas and then the works afterwards I know there's a there's a lot going on and I just think it's part of the Dynamics but just keep up the fabulous work uh that you're doing also one thing that some people have been talking about for a little while the uh happy to announce the queen market cap page for RPL is finally accurate they removed the uh the math Supply number which was lower than the circulating Supply obviously not possible um but as of about 24 hours I saw they did remove that so finally our um our RPL page is at least in the important

parts accurate I think there may be a little couple of tweaks on the Aries page but uh we finally got there a little win oh excellent excellent and then just as we wrap up here um because I know you've got to go but Joe if I just ask you for any any things that we didn't talk about that you feel that's important for the community to know about you were kind of hitting that there might be some bread on today's call is there anything you can share with the community yeah so the thing that I really want to put into people's minds and have them start talking about is the idea that uh when we first created Rock people we kind of had like

a vision for where we wanted it to go and the features that we wanted to add and how uh to sort of better serve both the re folders and the node operators and things but that Vision has always kind of come around to having a end-to-end experience being able to deposit being able to do to earn rewards and then being able to exit and withdraw at the very end of it and get the capital poster rewards back and stuff and as has been essentially demonstrated about the guys that have exited already that has been realized uh Atlas and the smart note 1.9 is now fully capable of satisfying a bad dream so at this point uh the the major features are kind of like they're there they're in place they're

done and we instead of sort of mandating this is what we want to see uh in the next protocol update uh we use the development team uh we're gonna try and turn it over to the community and ask you guys all right you're in the driver's seat so to speak what do you want to see in the next update and work with us to kind of determine what the timeline is going to look like and when each feature can go into like can it go into the the next update or the update after that or after that or something along those lines uh and and help us kind of like Define what it actually is like we have some ideas but I don't think that we're going to do the same kind of like this is what we want the next one to be I think it's very much

going to come down to community feedback and interactions and things I know one of the uh the things that Nashua mentioned earlier on for example was that like Atlas didn't really have an armpit right the same way that most of the other updates have and he wanted to see the next major protocol if they have at the very least and follow the formal protocol for for doing these upgrades and that's what I think we want to do is have the conversation with you guys and put one of those things together and follow the entire end-to-end chain in that respect so think about what you would want to see like what could uh rack of all the protocol do differently uh improve what could it provide to satisfy whatever any in Japan to have you know let us know and we're happy to have those

conversations now that it's live and it's working yeah it's working oh my God I know I know it's so nice to see I know you got to be like a little numb right like you know it's too good to be true to be that it's it's working right and I don't know I'm kind of in a weird spot because I haven't launched my LED yet but it's like it's working but like you know I should wait but it's working yeah so it's it's a little bit Giddy and I imagine without any sleep you got to be be totally totally on edge there but but you heard it from from Joe we heard uh Langer's mentioned it last time they're looking for Community uh input so be thinking it everybody be D.A dming uh Joe with uh lev4s tell them what you

want um in the next next release I guess it's uh I guess it's um uh Dan that's coming up right I don't know if our release will be at all timed with that or around that maybe we try to get off yeah yeah and then um may have it texted me even though he went and uh had a drop off he did want me to remind everybody that there are a couple of uh three uh community events coming up I guess there's a bonus Twitter space that I think I'll be hosting with me of this week tomorrow it's currently scheduled tomorrow at 11 A.M uh Pacific so look look at the events channel to get your correct time uh that's in there but I think we'll begin to explore a little

bit more of the marketing and we'll actually kind of see what happens after the LED eights and the deposit pool to try to kind of uh measure some of the art East demand that everybody is in and as we're coming to the weekend I expect the next wave of led8 conversions to start happening is gas prices uh hopefully come out of the triple digits here um there is this week a staking panel discussion that uh assume rockapole is going to be invited to I know some of the other attendees are stake wise Diva and etherfi um I think that's going to be real interesting and then uh coming up on the 25th of May April there's another community space and this is the one with lingers and MAV and I guess they're going to have a special guest they

haven't announced who it is and I think Jasper is going to be hosting this one and that's certainly one that you'll want to tune into to kind of kind of figure out here but definitely keep an eye on the events panel I don't think it's I don't think the atlas launch party is yet stopping I think the team's got a couple of surprises in in the works for us and so it should be a lot of fun anything else Joe before we before we call it a day and you hopefully are hopefully off shift and uh can get some sleep here um

off the top of my head I don't think so I mean if if you guys have any questions about how things work now both vegetable or Atlas and stuff you know where to go right our support channel is always open I I suspect that most of the people in this call are not gonna have any questions they're just here for moral support or whatever but for those of you that are listening to the replay on YouTube or whatever we're always happy to help get you sorted through whatever note issues you happen to have and um thanks for being on the ride with us man yeah it's been it's been a blast it's been a journey and I'm just as excited to see what's going to come next but um let's go ahead let's call it a call it a call here I'll be

able to to DM um MAV and tell them to shut down the uh the Twitter space here but Joe as always it's been an absolute pleasure and congratulations again on the successful launch of Atlas and already 24 well approaching 24 hours this afternoon be 24 hours of pretty clear um pretty clear trajectory all right everyone have a great day all right take care guys