Robinhood’s Plan to Make Onchain Finance Mainstream

Transcript

[music] >> On Wednesday of last week, Robinhood held their the world is flat event where they launched the Robinhood chain along with a huge collection of ecosystem partners and integrations. And the world is flat name is a tip of the hat to the fact that Robinhood wants to democratize access, flatten the world to have access to financial products using blockchain technology. And after watching that event, you don't really have to squint your eyes very hard to see the future of finance being rebuilt right before our very eyes. Tokenized stocks issued by Robinhood are freely and permissionlessly transferable around the Robinhood chain and on and off the Robinhood chain to the Ethereum layer one and the rest of its layer twos.

Morpho is integrated into the main Robinhood app offering Robinhood customers, the 27 million Robinhood customers, 7% yield on USDG stablecoin deposits in a non-custodial section of the main Robinhood app. They've expanded perp offerings to EU and Canadian customers of Robinhood, and they have a full feature-complete integration of Lyra, the ZK L2 perp decks on Ethereum inside the Robinhood wallet. So, we now have one-to-one backed tokenized stocks with dividends and investor governance rights, if you want to do that, trading on Uniswap creating a 24/7 365 marketplace for US equities. And you can see the perpification for these things just right around the corner.

So, today on the show I talked to Johann Kerbrat. He is the general manager of crypto at Robinhood who has been trying to build this ecosystem for the last five years to get more details of what's being released. And it's just nothing short of exactly what we imagined the future of finance looking like just a few short years ago. Johann, welcome back to Bankless. Bankless Nation, I'm here with Johann Kerbrat. He's the VP of crypto at Robinhood. We just came out of a pretty hot event out of the Robinhood ecosystem, the launch of Robinhood chain with Johann. You have been working on this as long as I've known you at Robinhood. It's got to feel pretty good to get that out the door.

>> Yeah, it was pretty exciting and you know, we did an event in London in a very very cool place. It was like painting on the wall and on the ceiling. So that was really cool to be there and see all our customer and hearing the cheers when we finally announced the chain. So that was that was great. >> The uh theme of the event was the world is flat. Why was it called that? >> Well, you know, Vlad is an amazing uh uh inventor and thinking about a lot of things constantly and his vision was like how do we show that using blockchain and using crypto we can actually uh remove all the inequalities in the world and actually make uh person that are anywhere in the world able to access and get exposure to US stocks, to verbs, to all these products.

So uh that was kind of the idea behind it. >> One thing I noticed uh the HOOD stock was up like 8, 9, 10% on the on the all the announcements. They the Robinhood chain, tokenized stocks, the products, the wallet, the yield. It from the crypto side of things, it feels good that the market is responding positively to crypto news. You Yeah, it's not usually what is normal in the case in the last like 12 months or so. So uh it's just like you you are the the VP of crypto at Robinhood. So like, you know, thanks for for doing all the great stuff that the market likes. I'm I'm sure that must feel pretty well.

>> Yeah, you know, I think for us what's been exciting with this event is really that we can show to our customer our product velocity. Uh you know, last year we announced a lot of things and uh this year we actually delivered on a lot of these things that we had pre-announced and on top of that we added way more announcement that we were expecting. Just yesterday we announced 15 products. So I think you know, a lot of our customers are excited about that. They they see our product manager on stage with us and presenting all these new uh tools and features that they can access on Robinhood. And on top of that, uh I think it shows that you know, Robinhood has been one of these companies that has uniquely been able to ship so many features at once and always with the customer at the center,

making sure that you know, what we ship is what they actually care about and they like it, they know how to use it, they are interested by it. So, yeah, overall pretty pretty excited about yesterday. >> Markets don't move one asset at a time. One day it's Bitcoin, the next Nvidia, then gold, and then the S&P. But most traders are still managing their portfolio across different platforms, different accounts, and different pools of capital. Bitget just changed that. Their new stocks 2.0 product lets you trade tokenized equities directly with USDT. All inside the same app you already use for crypto. This is not just another tokenized stock product. Stocks 2.0 is designed around deeper liquidity, faster execution, [music] and the lowest fees in the market at just 0.04% and one-to-one economic exposure to the underlying stock. Dividends, [music] stock splits, and other corporate

actions are reflected automatically, helping your position stay aligned with the asset you actually want exposure to. One platform, one account, multiple markets crypto equities commodities and more, all accessible with USDT. Bitget, trade smarter. Start trading today through the link in the show notes. This is not investment advice. >> Some exciting news. We are launching a new podcast to help people figure out the crypto cycle, how to navigate it. The best crypto cycle investor I know, his name is Michael Nadeau. He runs the DeFi Report. This is the guy that sent me a sell alert before the 10 10 price drop happened. His cycle analysis has been absolutely on point. I've been following him for years. And this year we started recording weekly podcast episodes. Each one we get into his portfolio, what he's holding, the market structure, entry targets, fair market

value of Bitcoin and Ether, and where we are in the cycle. There's new episodes that are released every Wednesday. They're 30 minutes, they're short, they're punchy. I think this crypto cycle is harder to navigate than most, so let's do it together. Go subscribe to this podcast. Search The DeFi Report wherever you get your podcast, YouTube, Apple, Spotify, or find a link in the show notes. There's a new episode waiting for you now. >> I've got some questions about those products that you guys released. So, I'll just start going one by one. Let's start with uh tokenized stocks. I think this is probably the one that people found the most interesting. It touches the most amount of things, I think, on the crypto side of things. But, just the implementation details, that the technical details, how does a stock on Robinhood become a Robinhood tokenized stock on Robinhood chain? What what is

that process like? >> Yeah, so so currently the system is uh a little uh complex uh just because of the fact that the US is not part of it just yet but um we have our our exchange, Bitstamp, that is basically our uh exchange that is connected to all the institution. Institution can come to Bitstamp and buy the stock tokens and then bring them on chain to one of the different uh DEXes that are available from uh Uniswap to uh Lyra, Arrakis, and and many more. So, um that's currently how it's happening, but in the future we want to find ways to um simplify all of this process.

>> What about just like the basic investor governance and dividends that one would have if I if I own a stock on the Robinhood brokerage? Do I still have that if I own the stock as a token on Robinhood chain? >> Yeah, so dividends uh we'll pay them. Um corporate action will also support them, all of this kind of stuff. So, for us that was pretty important. Um the stocks tokens are also backed one-to-one, so, you know, that's something that is very key, I think, for the trust of the product. Um and on top of that, you know, if anything happens to to Robinhood, um the position of the customer is secured as well. So, that was something also um important. Um and what's really cool, I I don't know if you saw it yesterday, but we uh showed how it interacts in the wallet if you're

in one of the eligible countries and you're really able to to look at all the stocks. You can see the price uh moving and and some information about the the stock token uh on the page. You can buy it. uh uh Yesterday was you know the first time that we are really trying it live. So it was pretty cool that everything worked during the event. And and the other cool part is you can actually utilize the stock tokens for other things. You can use them on chain. You can use them as collateral. I'm sure we'll start to see like lending pool around it. So you know you can really do more than if you were just keeping them on the brokerage. And the the other thing that we showed yesterday is how you can send them

to to somebody else with another wallet, which I think is a is a pretty unique thing that shows really the power of the blockchain. When you try to move your brokerage account to another brokerage account, you have this process that you call ACAT. Takes multiple days. Sometimes weeks. Sometimes you lose a cost basis. You lose information. But here everything is on the blockchain, right? So you have all the information available on blocks. And so I think that really shows how how powerful this technology can be. And the more the the the you know the regulation will come into place, the more we'll be able to expand it to more jurisdiction. And I think that's really going to change how we interact with with exchanges.

>> One of you guys as launch partner was of course Uniswap and it's pretty cool to see the Robinhood tokenized stocks inside of the Uniswap interface. It's just like when we saw Uniswap be launched in 2019 and 2020 and saw all these like you know early primitive tokens. We all kind of imagined you know one day there will be stocks in here and now we're actually seeing that. But that's on the Robinhood chain, the Uniswap instance on the Robinhood chain. Are the Robinhood stock tokens able to be transferred to the Ethereum layer one?

>> Yeah and we you know we saw different bridges happening already on the chain. What's in front >> transferable across the Ethereum ecosystem. >> Right. And and that's really the the mint and redeem where you have to utilize one of our platform. Um but but yeah, it's been really cool. You know, the the chain is uh not even live for for 24 hours. I mean, technically it was live for for a couple of uh days before, but like we really just announced the launch uh less than 24 hours ago and we saw a million transaction already. So, I think that's what we're uh what we're excited about is to your point, that connection between um crypto first platform like Uniswap and other and then the more traditional uh side of the

world like Robinhood connecting uh together and and really merging and creating a world where you can see this enthusiasm from the community. >> Did you say that in order to transfer a Robinhood tokenized stock to the Ethereum layer one, you have to go through a Robinhood mint and redeem function or is it more permissionless? >> I I I meant like um it's a permissionless chain. You can do a lot of things. Yeah, the only thing where you will need to interact with Robinhood at this point is to mint and redeem your token and for um either the the stock or or the the equivalent in cash.

>> Right. Okay, so if I hold like an Apple share as a Robinhood stock token, I can sell it to Robinhood and redeem an Apple share inside my Robinhood brokerage? >> So, currently we're not offering it, but that's something that we're working on for for institution especially. We think it's going to be something pretty important. Um but right now you can sell uh to to Robinhood. >> And then the Robinhood tokenized stocks, those are freely transferable between parties and uh do do does all does the receiving party need to be KYC'd with Robinhood or is that also a permissionless transfer function? >> No, currently it's permissionless. Um so, if you utilize a wallet, it's uh very well done. Like I I showed a demo the other day where it's it's really uh like you're transferring any any crypto asset. Um in the future, we also want to

find ways to make it more easy to find between uh you know, like you mentioned your actual brokerage account and all these kind of things, but that that will a bit more time. >> I want to ask about uh USDG, which is the the stablecoin issued by Paxos. I think you guys are are a partner with Paxos. And then depositors is depositors who deposit USDG inside of the Robinhood app. This gets sent into Morpho, but that gives 7% yield for those who deposit. How does 7% is above any competitor that I see in the market?

How does How do you does Robinhood generate 7% for the depositors? >> Yeah, you know, I think for us what was really interesting with this product was the fact that it was in the main app. So, it's not part of a wallet. It's really within the main Robinhood app that is used by tens of million of of customer in the US. And the really cool part about it is when you start entering this flow, we actually create a smart wallet for you. And it's a self-custody wallet. So, you can eventually export the key if you want to and import it in your wallet or do whatever you want with it. And so, that I think was really cool because, you know, for the first time we are really starting to merge the two worlds together even more than we we were doing before.

And then, you know, you can deposit as much as you want, obviously. You can start from just cash. Part of the flow, you will have to buy USDG and we made it super easy for you. You can also withdraw at any time. And yeah, on the on the yield, you know, I think for us one of the big thing that we were worried about is that some of our competitor when they launch similar products, they they start with a zero rate and then, you know, within a few hours the rate will drop. So, we spent a lot of time working with all our partners to make sure that we could actually have a zero rate that will be stable for a while.

So, it's it's approximately 7% to your point. And the reason why, you know, we're able to do this higher rate is just the the fact that you're you're just bringing like a giant like Robinhood with all partners, market makers that are creating new pools for all the products that we're launching. And so there's a bit more demand around around the rates. But for for us, you know, I think it's when I joined Robinhood like 5 years ago, a bit more than 5 years ago, my goal was really to find a way to bring crypto to the masses and this is why it's a big biggest step we did to to actually do that.

>> Talk about why US DG. Uh talk about that that partnership or that integration with with Paxos. >> Yeah, so we are part of the global dollar network where we're one of the founder member. And what we like about US DG is that the name generated through the you know, the treasury that are held for for backing the the US digital token is actually shared with a member of of the of the network. And I think that's a big difference from what you're seeing with some of the other stable coin where you know, it's it's mostly kept by the issuer.

And and the reason why we push the boundaries around this is that we want to encourage people to actually hold stable coin. Right now, if you're an institution and you use another stable coin, you're kind of at a disadvantage. Like you're actually your interest would be to sell as soon as possible your stable coin and to buy cash to make name on your on your cash with a normal traditional bank. Which in that situation remove a lot of the advantage of having a stable coin. You can't move it as quickly. You can't do all the stuff that you you should be doing with collateral. Um So so with US DG, it's the opposite, right? You you still keep get the name.

So for you, it's not as important to go back to cash. You can keep the US DG on your on your account. You can use it for all the things that you want to do from uh a pool, uh it as collateral, or anything like that. Um and so that's why we we want to support that stablecoin. Um and that's why we created earn uh Robin Earns through through that stablecoin as well. >> And uh I I mentioned that you uh uh you deposit USDG and it goes into Morpho. That That part is correct, right? So, Morpho is not just integrated into the Robinhood wallet, but the main Robinhood application. Is that true?

>> That's right. So, so Morpho uh created vaults on the Robinhood chain. And both the wallet and the main Robinhood app will interact with it. Um same thing. The the the Robinhood app utilizes smart wallets um that is a self-custody wallet for the customer, and that's connected to to Morpho. Um we're using Steakhouse as a curator. Um and we also We also have other partners like ECN for example that they >> Mhm. >> are [clears throat] going to help uh with with all these products. But um technically, you don't need to use the Robinhood app if you want to connect to one of the vault, uh you can directly go on the Robin chain and and deposit there.

>> That's right. >> about perps. Uh so, there was a handful of different uh integrations with with perps. One of them was an expansion of non-crypto perps, so things like gold, silver, QQQ, uh WTI. Uh and then there was the the crypto-native perps directly in the Robinhood wallet. W- That one, the the crypto-native perps in the Robinhood wallet, that was an integration with Lighter. Was the earlier stuff I was talking about, the non-crypto asset perps, was that with uh uh Bitstamp, the exchange that you guys bought? Okay, so there's a delineation there. Talk Talk about both of those things and how you guys divide that up.

>> Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, we are one of uh Bitstamp and Robin Europe are one of the only marketplace or exchange where you can trade uh perpetuals in a in a platform that is regulated. Uh so, we have a MiFID license for Bitstamp, and we have a MiFID license for for Robin Europe. Um and we're offering this product there with up to 10x of leverage. Um and I think it's important because for a lot of customer, um, they still don't want to go on DeFi. They still don't want to use a wallet. Uh, they don't want to connect to platform like, uh, Hyperliquid and other where you don't necessarily know exactly what's what's going to happen. Um, and so we have a platform where, you know, you can reach out to customer support or

you can, uh, buy stock tokens, crypto, and also the the perpetual that are regulated. Um, we we it it's one of the most sticky products that we've launched in Europe. And we've seen a lot of demand for this other type of asset from commodities to to um ETF and especially during the the weekends for the past few months. Like you you've seen, you know, oil for example, moving quite a bit on on some of these markets. So, cuz the demand was strong, uh, we're excited to launch that. Uh, it's a seven new contracts, uh, from silver, gold to, uh, QQQ as an ETF and other. And I think it really brings diversity and, uh, different

products for for our customer to try. And then, you know, one of our mission is to expand across the world, right? So, uh, we can't go to every single country and get a license and, uh, implement all the system because it just takes, uh, a while and so we are doing it, uh, one by one. You know, we we've done it with Europe. We also launched, uh, Robinhood in Canada, uh, yesterday. Uh, we also live in the UK and in other countries. So, you know, we are going, uh, as fast as we can, but for the rest of the world, what we we are thinking was really how can we use crypto and blockchain to actually accelerate the the expansion of Robinhood. And so, we have this Robin Wallet.

Uh, it's available in 100 plus countries. And in the eligible places, you can see the perpetual experience. It's a it's a separate tab. Um, it's connected to lighter. Um, you will see all the the contracts that are available uh, with leverage up to 20 and 250 x depending on the contracts. And and basically the interface is really really proper to Robinhood. Like we we made sure to implement all the things that work very well in the in the EU. You can decide on your margin using a slider.

Same thing with leverage. And you know, obviously like we'll see how it goes, but I think we'll see a lot of people being really excited about having this simple UI and UX to to trade with with perps. >> And the this uh lighter partnership inside of the Robinhood wallet I find pretty interesting. At during your section of the of the presentation yesterday when you were talking about them, you ended it with we will continue to deepen our collaboration with them. Them being lighter. What does that mean? >> Well, a ton of stuff. We, you know, we think this is just a beginning. I think perpetual is a is a great way to to trade differently from opening long shorts, uh different type of products.

You don't have the same structure as some of our similar but not similar products as like CFDs for example that are pretty different. So so I think we're just at the beginning and I think it's one of these kind of crypto primitive that is actually going to make its way into more and more traditional finance systems. So I think for us we we want to make sure that when we create partnership we we create this deep relationship. Um, one thing that we announced for example is that lighter is committing about 11 million worth of light token. Um, and that will start in August 1st when you start trading either

on directly on lighter using web, you will get one point. If you use the Robin wallet you you will get two points and we'll start splitting the the pool of tokens uh that. And you know, that's the kind of stuff we we want to do. But, I I think, you know, there is a lot more that we can do, and so uh we we will uh show what what's possible in in the future, but I think uh this is just the beginning for us. >> One thing I thought was pretty interesting was that Lighter built using their engineers that they have a bunch of forward deployed engineers. They built a custom instance of Lighter on the Robinhood chain. So, rather than the Robinhood wallet pointing to the Lighter ZK L2, the Lighter engineers just built you guys an instance of Lighter on the

Robinhood chain. Why did you guys want that? What does that do for you guys? >> Um yeah, it's it's a little more complicated. Like, it's not fully uh an entire exchange that is on our chain, but it basically it's still using the Robin chain. Um I think for us it's it's it's important because we want to make sure that everything that um are connected to our products or the Robin products, we can control a lot of the UI UX um all the the rules that we put in place, and and you know, we want to make sure that it's also contributing to to the ecosystem. So, um the Robin chain is brand new, uh and we want to make sure that we can uh all the partner building on it, um and and really develop on on top of it.

>> So, we have the the non-crypto perps, which is serviced by Bitstamp, and that is in the main Robinhood wallet, the normal Robinhood wallet, but only available Is that Oh, is that not right? >> It's in the Robin in Europe app. Uh so, we have >> Right. Oh, that's a separate app. >> Right. It's It's It's like It looks like Robinhood uh if you're in the US and you're used to it, but it's in Europe. That's a regulated platform. Um and then the Robin wallet or DeFi self-custody platform, um that's connected to Lighter through the Robin chain, yeah. >> Okay, and you guys are just waiting like everyone else is for clarity from the regulators, the CFTC, to put perps in the main Robinhood app?

>> I I think, you know, we we would be uh lying if we wouldn't say that we are interested in that. We we have the technology, we build the UI, the UIX. We know our customer love it, so for sure when we get clarity on this point, it's something that we'll be interested in. >> What is the long-term balance between the Robinhood wallet and main Robinhood core? Cuz if you want to put Perp, which is a It's not only a It's just a neutral instrument, but you know, crypto kind of created it. We have the back end for it. If you wanted to put Perp inside of the main Robinhood wallet, you already have a stablecoin getting 7% yield in Morpheus in the main Robinhood wallet.

How do you think about the long-term equilibrium between the main Robinhood app, which is the dominant source of your guys' users and AUM and all the activity, versus the Robinhood wallet? Like eventually might these things be the same or do you think they'll converge or diverge? >> No, I I think, you know, our our vision is really that the traditional systems are going to slowly replace our technology with with blockchain technology. Uh it's just faster, it's bulletproof in terms of like verification, you can see the history. Uh you have decentralization, uh fractionalization baked by default.

Um and so I think slowly we're going to start seeing more and more features where, you know, instead of using um the classic clearing system that we have for stocks, uh it will be a blockchain powered uh clearing system. And same thing with the the yield or the the earn system that we put in place. Um you know, right now it's using a smart wallet, but the smart wallet can do a lot more things. So, um I think it's just a function of like what is the regulation uh in in the different countries, what are the the proper systems to put in place to make sure that customer understand what's going on.

Uh but based on that, I think the two worlds are going to converge more and more. And, you know, if you start using our Robin wallet that is like fully defy, fully self-custodial. Um the the the experience to buy perps or to even fund your wallet is becoming more and more easy. Like uh you don't necessarily need to send crypto to to fund your wallet. You can actually use uh fiat rails, either Apple Pay or Google Pay to start funding your wallet. Um you can open the the perps, like I said, like very in a very simple way. You don't have like 20 things to approve where you're never really sure what's going on. So, you know, we spend a lot of time making this UX uh simple. And I think in a lot of countries where we are not live as a you know, licensed uh platform, we will

actually be able to start seeing the wallet um for for a lot of our customer being a good solution for them. >> Would you say that if and where it makes sense, if Robinhood can put some of its business logic on chain, again, just like the US DG on Morpho, for example, and your perps on Lighter, if it can put its business logic on chain, it will? >> I I think if there is a benefit for the customer, for sure. And that's what happened with with the with you know, Robinhood program. Uh we we felt like this was a much better solution for our customer than what's out there currently. And so, you know, there was not even a a question of should we do it or not. It was more like how do we do it? And I think if tomorrow we we have a problem that we think can

benefit from blockchain, can reduce the cost to the customer, for example, uh you know, why not doing it as long as uh it can fit the requirement that we have from from our regulation. Um you know, it it's it's in the advantage of the customer. So, so let's do it. >> Hey Bankless Nation, it's David. If you're hearing this, that's because you are listening to the free Bankless podcast feed. Did you know that there is a premium Bankless RSS feed? The premium feed has extra interviews that I do for my own personal research and just deeper questions that I want answered about the crypto industry. Questions that I want to answer so I can be more informed as an investor for at Bankless Ventures and also just in my own personal portfolio, too. Also, there are no ads, which means if you listen to the premium feed

instead of the free feed, you'll get about 20 hours of your life back every year because you choose to support Bankless directly. So, if you're interested in getting extra content all while skipping the ads, or you just appreciate what we do here and want us to keep doing it, we'd appreciate it if you signed up for Bankless Premium. And there is a link in the show notes to get started. Cheers to a good 2026. One thing that I think is cool about this is that blockchains are just fantastic business models. They're pretty low overhead to run, and chain fees can turn into something pretty substantial. >> Your guys or one of your guys' partners is is Arbitrum, of course. Uh you Robinhood chain is an Arbitrum Orbit chain. How has your experience working with Arbitrum been? Would you recommend Arbitrum to other institutions building

chains on Ethereum? >> Yeah, absolutely. We So, we partnered with Offchain. They're helping us put the the chain place. Uh they've been awesome to work with, honestly, and I think the the the what we like about Arbitrum is manifold. There is stylus, you know, you can use any kind of language or multiple languages like Rust, for example, to to write um instead of just uh being stuck to the one language or business Ethereum. Um you can also uh have a priority system that is a bit different. Uh we think the gas fees are pretty low. Uh so far, we've been very happy with the latency. So, you know, I I think for us uh Arbitrum was a great choice, and and we're happy to to be part of uh the family now. And you know, being part of

EVM where we can easily bridge between all the big uh big chain was also big element that we we were excited about. Um and we still rely on Ethereum for the overall security and and decentralization. So, I think that's um so far, we we've been pretty happy with our choice. >> Well, they uh Robinhood is one of the few companies that I actually do look at the S-1s every quarter when Robinhood submits its S-1s. And so, I'm going to be pretty excited to see a new line item in the Robinhood S1, which is the Robinhood chain and everything that is benefited from that. Yo, Johan, there's another Robinhood event coming up in about I think like Q3 in Texas. I've signed up to be a moderator at that

event to talk about the Robinhood wallet with somebody from your guys' team. >> Oh, that's awesome. >> Any any advice for me? Any questions I should ask? What what would you think that I should talk about in a few months when it comes to Robin the Robinhood wallet at this event? >> Um well, you know, hopefully by then we'll have a few more announcements, so hopefully you will you will talk about them but I think seeing, you know, talking a bit about the the ecosystem around it, I think is interesting. You know, I've been in the space for a long time, and a lot of time I've seen chain going after developers to find ways to get them excited to build on the chain. Here the the situation is a bit reversed.

Like people are really excited about having the distribution coming from from Robinhood, and having all these customers that are not necessarily crypto first, but actually excited about using crypto if it's better for them. And so that's what I think we we should talk about a bit more. Like how do we continue to bring more of these non-crypto person into the space, and maybe speak a bit less about protocols and all the the technical stuff that that we can leave it for the engineer, but actually show the benefit to to the customer. >> Are you building and designing the Robinhood wallet to penetrate into the crypto market and compete with things like Phantom, Metamask, you know, the base app, or are you building Robinhood

wallet to target a new audience that has never really been on chain before, but perhaps they'll like it because of all the cool tools that you guys have? >> Yeah, I think the latter. You know, we we are pretty much more focused on easy to use, simple UX, simple UI, educational tool. We really think that blockchain is a better solution for a lot of the financial system. And so, we want to find a way to get people to to use it. But, the reality is that blockchain was made by engineer for engineer. You know, the first time you have to enter all these words to create a passphrase. Then you have to create bridges and transaction to just fund your wallet for the first time. Every time you have to pay fees. You have to

connect to DEXs and all this stuff. Like, all of that is so complicated. We are losing like 99% of the population. Even though they could benefit the the most from from having like the blockchain technology lower fee, lower cost. So, I think for us the idea is that, you know, there is multiple billion of people on on the planet that are not using crypto. How do we bring them into that space? >> Johan, thanks for coming on the show today. >> Thank you. See you soon. >> If one more question actually before if somebody wanted to get started on Robinhood chain, what activity would you recommend? Where should they go first?

What can they do there that you would do if you were coming on to Robinhood chain first? >> Yeah, we have all the docs on the platform if you want to develop on it. But, also like you can use our our wallet. You will see a tab for perps. You can search tokens and all the stock tokens that we we launched recently. And yeah, give us feedback. Honestly, I think that's the most exciting part. We want to build with customer. We want to build with you. So, if we're missing anything, let us know and we'll try to prioritize it. >> Johan, thanks for coming on the show. >> Thank you. >> Bankless Nation, another gargantuan blockchain added to the Ethereum ecosystem. That's really exciting for all of us. But, nonetheless, crypto is risky. You can lose what you put in.

This is frontier. It's not for everyone. But, we are glad you were with us on the Bankless [music] journey. Thanks a lot. >> Woo!