Robinhood Chain EXPLODING! Tom Lee Is BULLISH. ETH & BTC Are Ready To Go

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[music] [music] [music] [music] 17 floor. >> [music] >> We'll see you around the timeline.

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It's just it's next level. This industry is going to the next level. And guys, I I don't know what else to say. >> I'm bullish. >> He said it. He finally said it. >> So bullish. >> It is bullish. I'm bullish. We're bullish. [music] [music] >> [music] [music]

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>> Zoom out. The institutions aren't coming. They're [music] simply here. It's the golden age of crypto, guys. Get right. Let's go. >> [music] >> Welcome to the nest. See you on the show. >> Welcome to September 1st. Welcome to September. It's going to be a September to remember. Ladies and gentlemen, you're watching the rollup. Today is Tuesday, September 1st, live from the Financial Capital, the world, the tokenization tower, the nest. Here we've got a great show ahead. We're interviewing Will Clemente today on all things macro, Bitcoin, yields, hard assets, and more. We got a ton of news.

Robin Hood chain booming biggest monthly close on the crypto coins since 1010. Ladies and gentlemen, what an amazing show as always. Powered by our friends at Plume with the Nest. We got the new Nest sign up. Other one fell. All good in the hood here. And we're up. Happy Tuesday, man. What's going on? It's I just saw a tweet. They said it's do or die. It's bounce or die. Is it bounce or die or are we just going sideways chopping around? >> I don't think it's do or die. I think uh the fact that we are just chilling is enough to to be reckoned with. I mean we like you just said we have the biggest monthly close ever in the history of coins >> by just sheer price performance. So the fact that we haven't completely retraced

those gains in my opinion is enough of a telltale sign that we're uh we're establishing a floor much higher. Yep. >> And uh it's great to see. It's great to see. I don't think it's do or die. I think it's chop. Uh, and then there's some massive macro. >> Yeah, I mean, I guess we're bombing Iran again. >> We're bombing Iran again. I think uh I don't know. I'm kind of back in like they have a plan camp. You know, for a while there it was like, wow, this is like totally irrational. Wars and Besson are like totally on different pages. Y Trump is just bombing because he doesn't know what else to do.

>> Yep. But I'm kind of back in like like inflation is going to come in a little lower than everyone's thinking. Worsh isn't as hawkish as everyone's thinking. >> I don't think we're going to get rate hikes September either. >> I don't think we're going to get rate hikes. I think CPI and PCE is going to come in lower and so they they kind that kind of gives them room to like, you know, poke Iran a little bit more. And then they have like this Venezuelan thing. It's going to bring them a lot more oil. I kind of And then Wars and Bessant aren't just on the plane together going to the G20. They're sitting next to each other at the G20 addressing all these world leaders.

>> I I I think that this is a much more cohesive administration than people give him credit for. >> Yep. All right guys, Lil Miss Gun GM. Hey yo, Bit 50/50 official lighter OG. Good to see you. Ton Miss Gun says they always have a plan. Yeah, I mean they definitely have some, you know, semblance of a plan. We'll see what happens. Tom Lee um comes out and says that he thinks there's a lot of macro factors that are setting us up for a big move. He thinks that, you know, people are overexaggerating the likelihood of a Federal Reserve rate hike, AI fears, stock fears, etc. This is actually a pretty seasonality bearish period for stocks, like end of August,

early September. So the big fear for our our bags was we were going to get the final, you know, move down in stocks in September and that's going to cause us to bottom in October and I think that's kind of done. I think we're definitely bottomed. Um question is like are we going to get a nice pullback here before the next move or we just going to lock out rally? I'm in camp lockout rally. Don Al just tweeted are we you know what if we go to 90K in one candle? I think I think going up hard similar to 2019 is more likely than you know more chop. Tom Lee is no sailor. Yeah, >> I think um I think 83k and you're the technical TA levels guy here, but I

think 83k is a number that everyone's sort of looking at because then a lot of IBIT flows are in profit and just like significant volume that happen around there. So it feels like if we flip 83 then you have kind of the crypton native people that are looking at the prices right now expecting another pullback feels like if you flip 83 they end up buying higher. >> Totally agree. I think that's what's more like what's most likely. >> And then you've got the seasonality component to that. The you know obviously the X dimension is time whether we're above 83 or somewhere around these levels higher even much higher. You have the people that basically get to October and then they say wait >> we didn't get the leg down that we were thinking was going to happen on October.

Time is slipping away from us and price is slipping away from us again. We must we must buy much higher. Yeah. >> So it feels like there's two camps. There's kind of like the October 1010 camp. Uh, and then there's the 83k camp. And I think if you're waiting for either of those, you're gonna buy end up buying much higher. I'm I'm with you, man. I'm in lockout rally mode. I think this is a chop week. I think we're going to get a lot more macro headlines and >> like I'm long like we want this to go up. Look, obviously, you know, it's not like we're just saying this to say it. >> Um, but not like, you know, not like in a need for it to go up this week or like now, right? like all the all the leverage stuff is super low leverage

from a lot lower except for like some other small positions. But >> I think the only the only sense of urgency is around establishing a trend, right? Cuz like we want to get above 90 and pull back into the 80s and be like, all right, we're out of the woods right now. It's like ah we're kind of in disbelief. It's like is are we out of the woods yet? Could we go to see another low? We get above 85, 87, 90. couple closes above 90 on the daily, pull back to the low 80s. It's like all in.

>> It gets reflexive really quickly as people end up buying much higher. And >> I mean, man, if you would have if we would have been having this conversation in >> even a month ago, even legitimately August 1st, like August 1st, BTC was trading legit at 625. >> Yeah. And you know, you if someone would have said, "Hey, I think we're going to get all-time highs by the end of the year or even 100K by the end of the year." they you would have looked at them like they had four heads like they were completely delusional but now >> and now Anom is just slamming charts like alltime highs by the end of the year got to love it honestly got to love >> yeah alltime high charts by the end of the year is absolutely ridiculous I mean things would have to go almost perfectly

right but it does seem at least plausible there's a non-zero chance and you do get the macro picture uh and you get you know Bessant to control the long end wars to control the short end and maybe even cut. That would be a major reversal than what we're seeing. Now, the other, you know, somewhat macro headlines after buybacks, after no rate hikes, after uh CPI and PCE is this DTCC pilot program set to go live in October. >> Interesting.

>> And then >> and clarity vote >> and clarity in September. >> Two weeks, dude. We have clarity in two weeks plus the rate decision. >> Yeah. And the buybacks, right? That's coming up next week. >> Yep. >> And it's probably gonna be more than four billion if you take Besson at its word. At his word, >> dude. If clarity passes. >> Oh yeah. >> On the shocker, bro. We will see the biggest green candles across the whole industry. Like we have like oh my goodness. That would be the that would be the euphoria move that would end this rally would be like two weeks we're trading higher. We get this clarity passing. I mean we one can dream, right?

short term it's irrelevant but we're trying to zoom out here and play multi- multimonth multi-quarter games but one can dream all right let's get into the show um >> we've got markets weather and we've got uh Will Clemente joining as well um should be a good show >> very cool yeah fantastic show this is a one guest affair today and so we've got plenty of time to chop it up >> um cover what's going on in >> in all of the landines we need a BTC bounce That's what we need.

>> What do you need? What do you need? We just went up like a [laughter] 30% move across the board. Things look better than they've had in >> I mean, go >> Bitcoin. Jack says bounce or die, basically. >> I I disagree. I don't think we're going to die. I don't think we're going to bounce particularly hard until we get a new macro headline. And I think we're going to chill at like above 778K. If we're topping 80K by the end of the week, that is a pos that's still chop, but that's a positive move. And I would totally totally >> just like somehow this got boring.

Somehow like the 30% move that happened over like a week is like boring. It's like come on you where's you you know >> I think the way I think the way to I cuz I feel it too Andy. I mean trust me I think I've been here normaliz and so yeah absolutely you establish this level it gets normalized and then it's like well what ne what's next? I think the way to to think about it is, you know, kind of set aside maybe it's 3%, maybe it's 5% and call it like the gamble. Like I'm going to just absolutely floor it with like this much size and I'm going to go into Robin Hood and I'm going to go into these memes and I'm going to use Speaking of I'm going to use that.

>> Top blast did some on FOMO yesterday so bad. I'm down bad. >> And that's what keeps it exciting, right? And that way you don't have to like that way we don't have to think about like the core positions as like I need these to happen moving right now. >> I don't know if you can even see this. Hold on. Let me turn up the brightness here. >> So I I top blasted little Ooni. Oh, that's some Gunonna album. >> Um I top blasted Little Ooni. You can see my buys in the green and then you can see the price is down now. Like I don't know. It's I was top blasting like 3.5 mil and now it's at 2 mil. But the thesis here is that Eric O' Conor Eric Connor the guy who's up quadrillions >> on um Bonercoin he is he CTOed Lil Oonie

>> and so if you look at his FOMO he just keeps buying. So Eric just keeps buying Lil Oonie and Lil Oonie is like the it's like the Why is this on the It's focused on the penguin. Lil Oonie is the unis swap mascot. And so um yeah, he just keeps buying. And my thesis is Eric's about to go on a generational run here if um if you know we get the uh the the big pump. And so, yeah, we'll see.

>> Well, we've got a Will Clemente joining us here in a little bit. So, we're going to get through a little bit more of the opening segments here. Markets, news, weather before Will joins us. Um, obviously, everyone has their eyes on tokenized. >> These thesises are the most hilarious thing that I've ever seen. >> Watching Roll of Guys trade live is quite opposite from Wars pressure. >> Do it all here, James. We we're just talking about the long end of the yield curve and then wars controlling the short end and how stable coins are part of the priority of for national economic security. Okay. And then we get straight into boner coin.

>> This is truly pivotal time. All things are converging at once. The pace of change for crypto derivatives is unstoppable. A cryptospring is definitely here. Good to see you, Daz. Good to see you, Miss Gun. Good to see you, AB Con. Little Miss Gun, ET, James. All right, let's get into it, Rob. And where and where else can you get this kind of composability the barbell between memecoin retail and macro institutional only only on chain only on the rollup guys tokenized equities taking the world by storm our partner in this market segment is dinari tokenized the entire S&P they've got over 500 stocks that are tokenized uh you know various amounts of liquidity they've got the index index so you can actually buy the S&P obviously this buildout is taking place right before our eyes it is a massive massive

market segment And this is a trillion dollar TAM. I mean hundred trillion dollar TAM here. And so when you think about oh Robin Hood has won this game or Coinbase has won this game. The game is still so early. The game is just starting. >> It is just just getting started. So >> it is 81 degree beautiful day in New York City. Got to love it here. I just got a response on the tweet from Bitcoin Jack who's an OG. Uh 266K on X. He says, "Bounce or die." I say, "I think we're good." He says, "Given that we had major bad headlines and price didn't give a I guess if we're here by tomorrow, then we rip some faces off end of week."

I tend to agree. Let's get into the markets. I know that's what you guys want to hear about. Before we do, let me tell you about FRA, our premier stable coin partner, open stable borderless. Visit fra.com and try out their new Fracknet product uh at fraetet.com uh or frafrnet. And I just want to add on to that on the whole stable coins are becoming an economic priority for the national security of the United States. They need to control the short end of the bond curve. They're doing it. Uh genius rules. I saw something about January 2027. Yes.

>> Are starting to go into effect. That is when we can actually expect these Genius compatible stable coins to go full Genius compliant. And I think that is going to be a huge trigger for buyers of short-term treasuries. Fracks included. So I think they are uh pretty important to the strategic buildout of stable coins here in the US. Obviously homegrown and uh you know Sam friend of the show. So pleasure to have FRA as a partner. Chain link and Near doing fantastic here% today. >> Near looks fantastic. >> Chain link just kind of you know oscillating above the levels that it needed to really set the lows in and now we're Salana I think is going to go on a monster run if we get a if we get a bounce.

>> And ETH too. ETH is going to 4K. It seems like >> ETH is going to 4K. I think Tom Lee took a lot of supply off the market. I'm not as hot on Salana. I think they've they are losing uh quite a bit of market share to Robin Hood as well as Pump Fun is. So, it kind of fractures both the the chain and the app thesis. >> One of the things that we've been mentioning, Andy, while you were in the Tetons last week was that the revenue meta side of the barbell >> is accelerated by the legitimization of the industry. And so if you think back to, you know, the fantastic week where we had pretty much the biggest week of the market, you know, in recent history, >> uh, on one hand, you had the Treasury buybacks basically signaling they're going to inject liquidity, obviously

propelling hard money, scarce assets to new highs. Bitcoin, gold, ETH, Zcash, all did phenomenal as a result of that announcement. But the exact following day or later that day is when we had industry leaders in the White House, right? And we're calling that the legitimization of the industry, right? We've we've called it a number of things. It's the convergence. It's the institutional FOMO. It's the integration of tradi. But at large, it's the legitimization of the industry. Something that the Democrats don't want to do because Trump has made so much money in the industry.

But nevertheless, inevitably, the industry is getting legitimized. It's getting regulated. And so, these things are being brought into the world of finance, legitimate finance. I think Chainlink is one of the most wellpositioned benefactors of the legitimization of the industry, right? And so, not only do they have the revenue meta and they have the chain link reserve and they're using that to buy back tokens, that's real revenue. They're also well positioned because Sergey is up there literally with the president shaking his hand and chain link is so systemically instrumental to the entire DeFi complex that as the tokenization thesis plays out and we get

hundreds of trillions of dollars of assets, tokenized equities, commodities, forex, all of that floods the onchain economy, it flows into DeFi. chain link is connected and helping to power all of those DeFi protocols and therefore all of the assets that are flowing on chain as a result of tokenization. And so as the industry gets legitimized and more assets flow in, I think chain link is in a very very strong position to get rerated as more of these newcomers realize the systemic role that it plays in DeFi and in the onchain economy at large. So I think chain link is extremely well positioned. We're seeing the market realize that in real time and uh and and yeah it's one of the few

things that is green today. So big fan of uh of what chain link is doing, what Sergey is doing, helping to move the industry forward. And then obviously uh you know what else we have on the docket here. Like I said, I think Salana's losing a little market share to Robin Hood. ETH I think is just pure like they've they've definitely got something they need to figure out. I think you probably saw our friend of the show, Lorenzo, put out kind of a followup. Yeah. To >> I want to talk about that today. >> Yeah. So, we'll we'll we'll probably get into it. I'm not sure if we have the tweet on the docket, but you know, ETH has kind of got a revenue pro like issueization thesis.

>> Yeah. >> Like like >> Arbitrum is making more money from Robin Hood chain than Ethereum is. And and so Robin Hood's revenue went what was it 10x from a month ago and today they're getting Ethereum is getting paid the same as what Robin Hood did even though they've 10xed their revenue, right? And so re I think Robin Hood made like a million dollars in one day on August 30th. Arbitra made I mean it scaled. So, Arbitron was able to make something like, you know, 10% of that, maybe 80 to 100K.

Ethereum made 100 bucks a month ago when Robin Hood was doing, you know, what was it? Uh, uh, onetenth of what they did, maybe call it a 100K, Ethereum still just made a hundred bucks. And so, Ethereum is not scaling with the success of their clients. This is not a revenue share program in terms of the way that Ethereum monetizes these rollups. It is a pure, you know, product for sale basis, right? Our data availability costs this much. Whether you're using that data availability to make $100 or $100 million, doesn't matter. The data availability costs the same. And so I I

mean I guess there's pros and cons of this of this monetization strategy, but it feels like unless Ethereum has hundreds of thousands of rollups each paying for individual data availability, you aren't going to get the kind of revenue profile or scale that Ethereum needs to make a significant profit to its bottom line. And so if that's the case, you have to look at the Ethereum monetization strategy differently. Maybe you have to look at it in terms of a pure monetary asset, right? It's got monetary premium. Maybe it's a store of value. Maybe it is a sync for, you know, these companies to use because it has

this systemic value. I don't really know. I I would actually I I need clarification on Ethereum's monetization strategy at this point. Maybe it's just that Robin Hood is dependent. Even though they're only paying $100 for the service, it's worth much much more than that. And so they've got like a really really significant moat. But again, if you >> on Ethereum there, >> but but if that dependence exists, why would it not monetize? >> Why not charge a market rate for it? It's like it's literally like they're subsidizing.

>> Well, it's not a fixed rate perpetually, right? Like Ethereum can change the rate. They can increase >> the price of data availability posting >> but they're not but they're not. You think they're going to at some point because at this point Robin Hood has scaled and data availability has remained constant, >> right? But it's still so early is the thesis that's like >> maybe in the future they do end up increasing the rate. >> So they're almost still in like growth mode, right? Because you know, hip 3 markets, right, are kind of in like I think literally Hyperlid calls it growth mode. Artificially low fees to generate open interest and volume and then the thesis is once you get market

penetration then you ramp up the fees. But this is isn't this all unless you establish some sort of vendor lock in. This is all mercenary capital, right? >> Yeah. They but they Yeah. I mean theoretically Robin Hood L1 but then you have to have a coin then you have to have validators. Like look, if Ethereum increased the fee by 50% overnight, nobody would leave. >> I Yeah, but then again, they're only then they're only making >> $150. So, as always, guys, our markets are powered by our friends at Zama. Visit zama.org to learn more about their confidential solutions and their morpho vault powering confidential USDC in Morpho. Let's get into the news and more. But before we do, let me tell you

about near.com. My favorite place to trade per spot, swaps, and more onchain. It is one of the best places on chain to trade, use, and swap coins, per staking, all confidential. All right. So, this is what you're talking about here, Rob. >> Yeah. So, this is not a revenue share agreement between Ethereum and its L2s. uh it is a revenue share agreement between the rollup as a service or middleware providers in this case arbitrum. I mean they made 10% in the first instance when Robin Hood made $54,000 gross revenue. Yeah.

>> On August 22nd um Ethereum made 250 bucks on August 30th they what is that uh 20x their revenue over uh one week later they 20x their daily revenue. Robin Hood made almost a million dollars in gross revenue. Let's cut back to the tweet that we're talking about, please. In the kitchen, the producer, we're still figuring out this new system. We're talking about a tweet. We should have it on the screen. Thank you very much. So, a million dollars in one day. And Robin Hood basically retains all of that except for the arbitrum piece that scales, right? Pretty much linearly.

Robin Hood made 20x more revenue. Arbitum made 20x more revenue. Ethereum somehow made less despite their their customer making 20x more. So I I again like maybe it's still early, maybe they increase their prices later. Maybe they scale the amount of clients so much that you can still charge 150 bucks per client and justify a hundred20 billion dollar market cap, right? or there's like this monetary premium store of value thesis where you know it actually is systemically important to the bottom line for Robin Hood and

Arbitum and they are going to need to hold a lot of Ethereum on their balance sheet and so as usage increases they increase the amount of ETH that they're holding but again at the same time you have Ethereum scaling the L1 it costs less ETH in order for it to uh in order uh to pay for block space. I mean, they're they're literally making it more affordable. It's great. But unless Ethereum is going to be this public good, maybe that's what it is. Maybe Ethereum is a gigantic public good. It's just I think we're still figuring out how the Ethereum monetization strategy is going to work.

So, let's continue to scroll down a little bit more. Uh Lorenzo's a great follow, guys. I mean, shout out uh to Lorenzo from Arc Invest putting out some of this research. Uh Ethereum's cut is a fixedish L1 data posting cost. So fixedish is kind of like what we were talking about. It's not a revenue share. Um it doesn't scale with the amount of volume or fees or earnings that its clients acrue. Um it's not immutable. It could be changed, but at this point it still looks relatively stable around that very very low cost for block space.

Arbitum's cut, however, is a true percentage of revenue. Uh, it's a license. And so on a spike, when Robin Hood makes a lot more money, Arbitum makes a lot more money. Uh, but Ethereum barely moves in dollar terms. Robin Hood's effective net margin rises above its baseline 90% on big revenue days since one of its two taxes doesn't scale with volume. uh Ethereum and Arbitum being the ones who charge the taxes. Ethereum being the tax charger that doesn't scale with volume. Ethereum is running a franchise business that doesn't scale with the store sales. This is the problem. Lorenzo puts it so eloquently in a nutshell. It's a franchise model, but the revenue does not scale with the sales. And here is

the revenue profile of the Robin Hood franchise on Ethereum. Arbitum's cut scales with revenue while Ethereum's does not. And not only that, they're actually trying to make Ethereum's raw products more affordable. But the thing is, they're already too affordable. They're not Ethereum is not charging enough for its product. There is so much demand for this and they're just flooding the market with supply. And so I guess you get this like Jevans paradox thing where you end up flooding the market with supply. you end up with all these very very unique and you know non-skeumorphic use cases that you can't really predict until you flood the market with supply. And so once you get

that out into the open and you get all of this, you know, all of these distribution points and all of these integrations, right, then you get these products and these use cases and you end up establishing, you know, a lot more dependence on Ethereum. it becomes so much more systemically important to the financial ecosystem at large. Then you can increase fees. I don't think they're ever going to increase fees. I don't think you can get the philosophical flip of scaling the chain as much as possible to artificially arbitrarily increasing the cost of block space. I don't think the Ethereum powers at B are philosophically

or ethically willing to change their tune on that. I think what we could see is we do get like an asmmptote of scaling the L1 uh block space reaches a point of diminishing returns where you know it doesn't really become costeffective to put any more research into scaling it. it becomes so affordable that pretty much available to anyone to do all of these use cases and then we just kind of taper off and then the idea is that as blockace you know first stabilizes its supply doesn't you know just flood the market with more block supply we kind of taper that off right and there's a fixed supply of block space eventually the idea is

demand will catch up these use cases ultimately acrew so much more adoption and so much more velocity of transactions that the fixed supply ends up becoming somewhat of a ceiling and you end up with a more uh connected supply and demand dynamic. But until I mean that could be decades away and from now until then Ethereum just isn't really acrewing the kind of revenue that it should be acrewing for the amount of value that it's creating for its rollup customers. So that is I mean that's a pretty deep dive into what the I mean the best case study right now for Ethereum monetization which is revenue

uh from Robin Hood chain passed through arbitrum but we can see this play out in real time with respect to the Ethereum L1. Um so guys we are getting our first guest set up in the back. We're going to hit a quick standby uh before we bring him up because I think he's got a heart stop in a little bit. So let's go ahead quick standby. Don't go anywhere and we'll see you in just a moment with Will Clementi. [music] [music] [music]

>> [music] >> We get we get know we get we get deep we get deep know We get deep know we get deep know we get deep know we get deep [music] know we get deep we get deep

know we get deep we get we get deep we get deep we get [music] we get >> [music] >> You know we get [music] know we get deep. [music] We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep. [music] We get deep. We get deep, you know. We get deep.

[music] [music] [music] >> [music] [music] [music]

[music] >> We get deep. We get deep, you know. We get deep. We get deep. [music] We get deep, you know. We get deep. You know, we get deep. [music] We get deep. You know, we get deep. Know we get [music] deep. We get deep. Know we get deep. Know we get deep. [music] We get deep. Know we get deep. We get deep. [music] >> Yo yo yo. What's going on, guys? This is Itan with the roll up. We're going to be patrolling the streets of New York City getting answers to the questions that

you guys have most. What are people trading? What are people investing in? How much do people actually [music] [music] welcome back to another episode of Stabled Up, our premier weekly show covering the ins and outs of digital dollars, stable coins, and the future of decentralized finance. The >> show is made possible by FRA, and FRA is powering the financial engine of the internet, powering FRXUSD and genius compliant stable coins. This is the stablecoin super cycle made possible by fracks. Now enjoy stabled [music] up our weekly stable coin show.

All righty guys, welcome back to stabled up episode number 48. Our premier weekly stablecoin show powered by our friends at fra.s. Visit frax.com to learn more about their stable coin products as well as fraet their new digital dollar product. We've got Will Clemente. I believe it's his second time on the show. Will good to have you. Um, and what a month for the macro enjoyers. >> What's up, guys? Great to see you again. Thanks for having me on. Uh, yeah, definitely definitely been an interesting couple weeks. >> Yeah, man. I mean, I was telling you prior to joining that I was just at Jackson Hole [snorts] uh for the Fed meeting last week, and it was a hell of a meeting for a variety of reasons, namely the kind of uh distinction in roles, you could say, between the

Treasury and the Fed uh with uh Scott Bessant buying longdated bonds to try to reduce the steepening of the yield curves. The 30-year is over 5.2%, the 10-year over 4.7%. um people calling this a crisis right now and a very interesting structural demand for stable coin issuance uh kind of starting to to escalate here. So you've been kind of you know when this news came out from Besson on your X and just through your content you basically you know saw this as the green light for Bitcoin and I saw your posts you were kind of accumulating in the 60s and then great timing there. We saw a really nice move. maybe you could just set the stage for us a bit as to where you know what

changed for you in your kind of model of Bitcoin um you know about a month ago and how that kind of pertains to the macro environment. >> Yeah, sure thing. Um I guess we could start with maybe going towards last year uh and then and then get towards today. Um towards like the back half of of the summer, I became a bit more interested in specifically commodities. Um the gold chart looked insane. Um printed like one of the most beautiful consolidation patterns I've ever seen. And um meanwhile, you know, you had these overhanging supply and demand issues in crypto paired with, I guess, a general lack of innovation outside of things

like Hyperlid and a couple other select pockets. And so um I felt that it made more sense to to spend more mental energy focusing there. Um I thought there was a window that Bitcoin could have done well in the back half of the year where small caps had had ripped. Uh gold had gone on a tear. Uh silver was doing well. Uh and and and that's you know kind of right before we printed this I guess fake breakout to all-time highs um which preluded the you know 1010 and uh and the huge liquidations that that followed and and specifically were detrimental to uh to like non- Bitcoin assets um kind of shifted focus uh fully away after after you know a window where

I thought it could have done well uh in the back half of the year um sold down a lot of the the personal position that I had at the beginning of of this year just as you know I went through 2022 and it was not fun at all felt like there was a lot of kind of um you know nothing's ever plays out the same but um there there were there were echoes of of of kind of the um way that 2022 unfolded especially the price action way things were trading um and so kind of just you know didn't didn't completely uh you know stop paying attention but but kind of mentally put it off to the side for for a bit focusing on on things like energy at the beginning of the year and then obviously um it was hard not to be paying attention and and get caught up

in in some of the excitement around uh you know the the AI names. Um about a month ago though I started kind of looking around and saying well at this point basically everybody I know I mean I'm I'm sure you and a lot of people are listening or in you know plenty of group chats with other people um you know trading investing their own their own personal portfolios and everybody in crypto uh over the last couple months had completely pivoted to to focusing on equities. Um barely anybody would even talk about Bitcoin anymore. And so, you know, you kind of see that and then you look around and and you see how Bitcoin's trading and, you know, V had completely compressed. Reminded me of of of kind of the back half of 2022 where volatility completely dried up. Um, the

Bitcoin Bitcoin cycles typically bottom when you run out of sellers, not necessarily when you have some like random catalyst um that you know causes it to like start trending up again. It's it's typically, you know, you kind of run out of sellers, bleeds out, like there's no interest, and then all of a sudden, you know, you get this reflexive move up after an impulse off the lows, usually just from kind of like supply and demand. Um, and so there's that, you know, kind of looked at like what are, you know, 2022 is even more clear. You'd say what what are the things that drove uh the market down to where we are today? And then, you know, how are those things priced in and like what's the what's the outlook for those things? you know probabilistic outcome say you know

going forward for those things. Um and in 2022 it was you know interest rates had had gone up uh pretty sharply over the course of the year and then you know we had credit contagion and then FTX the back half of the year and so you know I think that was a lot more straightforward in terms of saying like interest rates are skewed to to go down over the next five or 10 years like you know we need to debase the currency to to you know service the debt load in the US like you know this this ultra high you know interest rate environment can't go on forever um or this relative high ultra high interest rate enirment retirement. Um, you know, the the FTX stuff had already played out. You know, price didn't really uh puke that much after that had happened, which was kind

of a a hint. Um, and then, you know, all the credit contagious stuff, you kind of sat there and said, like, how much worse could this get? >> Yeah, man. >> I think I think this this this time around, you know, it wasn't wasn't as clear, I'd say. definitely like I think a little little more tricky, but you know the main the main two things or you could toss a third one in there I guess would be um you know quantum DATs and then kind of the relative underperformance of Bitcoin to other assets. Um the third one you know after Bitcoin's underperformed everything for a year and it's bleeding out with no Vall like everybody who wanted to pivot quickly out and pivot to the next like shiny thing they they've probably already done so after over after over after over after over after over after

over after over after over after over after over after over the course of a year, right? Hot money is probably already out. Um, so like that's kind of checked off. The quantum stuff I do think is a real fear, especially when you look like 5 10 years out. Um, but you know, I think 50% off the highs in USD terms, 70% off the highs in in gold terms. Um, um, you know, I I think that's probably a good enough pricing in of of of that risk at least for the time being. And then I guess the other the other piece on that is like you're not if if the quantum stuff gets resolved, you know, um I I think Bitcoin would would pop if it came out out of nowhere, but like in re in reality, like the way it probably plays out is you probably

get these, you know, uh headlines or pieces of information showing that, you know, developers are are working towards a solution. And so like you're not it's unlikely that you're able to buy at the same price once that that risk is is gone. Um, and which is kind of like what the bottom looks like, right? You're more so like looking at like what's the skew of of the these risks that are currently weighing weighing down on the price like going away or getting worse like going on a going forward basis. Um, so that that's the quantum one. And then and then on the dad's side, which I think was the biggest specifically was Sailor, I think once once Sailor had sold, you know, and I put out a post um, you know, called um, I don't know, a couple months

ago basically saying like, you know, Sailor's got to kind of choose between the BTC, MSTR, and and and the preps here. And um he decided, you know, it was a clear because, you know, Sailor can can be somewhat unpredictable, but um you know, seemingly he made the right the right choice, which was to to start, you know, selling some of the Bitcoin to repe STRC. And so once he had done that to me it was like okay this this risk is no longer you know one that should be that much of an overhang especially when the market is no longer going down on headlines of sailor selling which to me is showing that the market's actually you know pricing in a d-risking of him needing slower the market went without him actually selling the Bitcoin then

the greater the risk was because like the the um you know overcolateralization of the Bitcoin relative to the preps would would close in um but once he once he started buying back STRC with some of the Bitcoin it's like okay I think I think you know the the the peak worries about this have probably passed and so you know for me I I kind of looked at it that way uh and that's why I ended up buying spot I mean I wish I'd bought some calls cuz VA was floored and would have been fantastic but um that that was you know I I didn't think that we were going to get a crazy move in like a week or something it was like you know the these are these are like long longerterm spot buys. Um and then you know shortly after we got this catalyst of of Besson

announcing um you know the the buybacks on the long end um which had also come after you know um the Treasury um you know intervening and and and and trying to bolster up uh the yen and you know I think the reasoning behind that was that if they didn't help then u the bank of Japan would potentially need to sell US treasuries to to defend the currency and they're one of the largest holders of of treasuries. Um so you know I think I think now Bitcoin is starting to to find um you know you had this big impulse which I think was kind of just you know people had kind of written it off. Um you know probably taken down their allocation to go chase other things. Um you had priced in a lot of the risks and you know just think as

as kind of always goes just like bled out. People stopped paying attention to it. But, you know, now now I think um not only have have you kind of priced a lot of those risks in over the past year, now we actually kind of have um you know, a narrative to to grasp on to and I would say actually maybe a couple um and and uh you know, people always try to like ascribe a a narrative to the to the price action, but I I do think there's some justification for this move fundamentally. um you know nothing has really changed with um the debt situation, the government, but the forcing function is the market and specifically you know yields ticking up um and and you know um knocking on the door of potentially breaking out and every time they seemingly do so Scott

Besson comes out and starts talking. I mean, he did this again yesterday, >> you know, this oil move and uh you this oil move and then Scott Besson came out saying that like even hinting out that he was potentially coordinating with Worsh in the morning and uh you know, I don't really think it's coincidence. So, you know, there's there's like the the the debt piece, you know, the financial repression uh in the US piece. Um, which I think is unless you think that politicians are going to cut spending is is kind of like a, you know, it sounds cringe, but like a mathematical conclusion that they're going to have to run financial repression where basically inflation outpaces um, you know, wherever they peg rates to get the the fiat, you know, debt load down. Um, there's that. There's also, you know, I

think potential socialist pressures in the US um you know that that will continue to get exacerbated by wealth inequality centralization u you know, the hating of data centers and and you know, flock campers, right? Like these are all like >> political thing. >> Yeah, these are these are all like social cultural zeitgeist things I think also that um you know make people more susceptible to be looking for something that's decentralized and like outside of the system. Um there there there's those things and then I guess the other one um is you know kind of I think you could you could see Bitcoin as a bit of an AI buildout hedge if you will because if if I mean at this point a lot of these you

know a lot of the circular financing stuff whatever I'm not an expert in that and you know any of that. Um there's people that spend their their whole day like you know their whole lifetime like analyzing all the stuff at at big banks and whatever. Um, but you know, I I do think you could you could make an argument and say, well, you know, if this buildout gets ahead of itself and you've got all of this, you know, debt creation um to to fund the buildout, then, you know, they're going to have to backs stop it. Um, and, you know, Bitcoin is kind of a could be seen as kind of a hedge against like the excess liquidity that would be needed to to um, you know, come about to to back stop that. So yeah, I think uh the first one probably has the most credence, you

know, the debt situation and u you know, best actions, but yeah, I think I think there's a couple things brewing that that make Bitcoin an interesting piece to uh consider for people in their in their personal portfolios. >> Yeah. And you know, before we get into too deep into the macro and to kind of into the nuances here, just wanted to ask about you. I also saw that you posted that you added some Zcash um almost as a hedge to well you know it's marketed as like you know Bitcoin is a hedge to the fiat system that you're kind of explaining Zcash is almost like a hedge to Bitcoin uh in the private kind of AI world this surveill surveillance world maybe you can just give us a quick TLDDR on your thinking on adding Zcash

>> yeah sure um very small position for me um you know I I haven't gotten in the weeds about Zcash if I'm being honest you know this is like with my own personal portfolio. So, you know, um I see it as like probably pretty good beta to Bitcoin given the, you know, percentage of Bitcoin market cap meme. I mean, frankly, like the chart of Zcash against in Bitcoin denominated terms looks phenomenal both on the weekly and and monthly time frame. And then, you know, the other piece is like I think monetary assets to me are personally more attractive than revenue generating assets. um you know m maybe maybe you're like somebody uh you know who bought hype super early because you really deeply understood it

and were willing to take you know various risks to to allocate to it. Um you know where there was a huge valuation mismatch but you know I I think monetary assets offer a lot more reflexivity especially in a crypto bull market because there are no fundamentals. Obviously it makes it more volatile but uh but yeah that that that was really my you know nothing really uh deeper than that. Um but but I do think there's a lot of you know kind of again this like cultural zeitgeist thing um where people are looking to push back against the system. Everybody's hating flock cameras and and data centers and um plus you know the debt situation in the US you know concerns that may come about about you know capital flight people looking for alternatives and like escape valves out of the out of the

system as as we potentially enter financial repression. I think all those things are are probably good for for for Bitcoin but also potentially um Zcash as well. So, I honestly just kind of bought some uh you know, I'm not going to hold it forever. Like, I I see Bitcoin as like a long-term hold to be honest, but I kind of just bought some cuz uh you know, I don't want to be salty if all my friends were making money on it. [laughter] >> Yeah. And I mean, we think about it as like these store value assets >> and then kind of like revenue producing businesses. That's what our, you know, PA has been looking like. And it's been, you know, the the allocations change, but that's been I mean, this has been the only thing that's been working is like these onchain businesses and store

value assets. Everything in between L1's, L2s, infra, anything has just just not been working. >> Um, rough. >> And so there there are some, you know, real onchain businesses that are driving revenue and some of those are acrewing those, you know, that revenue to their token. But I think you're right, you know, the the market is sniffing those out. So, kind of putting those aside and focusing more on the other side of the barbell, the hard money, scarce assets benefiting from, you know, this accommodative liquidity regime. Um, I'm I'm curious where you see outperformance, right? Because gold kind of had the massive runup. It benefited most from the runup in M2 over the last couple of years and then obviously a lot of that went to the AI buildout as well.

But it feels like Bitcoin uh gold is starting to reverse um as well as you know the Zcash adds even more beta onto that. I'm curious if you could talk a little bit more about the financial repression thesis that you have and then you know more specifically like you know I read this Catrini article. I'm not sure if you got into that but like this you know Treasury Fed Accord 2.0 know it feels like they're going to attempt to run the economy super hot and like does that necessitate this financial repression that you're talking about or do you think that there is a path for them to you know make this accommodative monetary policy but actually make it so that it works for the US and you know kind of equities hard assets everything

kind of goes up as a result of running the economy hot. >> Sure. No, I think you brought some like really really great points. Um so yeah I I guess to start you know when when you just look at the debt situation for the US you know been accumulating for quite a while there's there's no number where you say this percentage of debt to GDP is the trigger for you know you no longer wanting to invest in the US and the debt no longer you know the US like functionally um you know not being able to to go on or be bankrupt or something because because we have the reserve currency. But the forcing function I think is the market which is the bond

market specifically the long bond you look at 10-year 30-year I think the 10 year is more important but um you know we that that really has been I think the forcing function for action being taken by authorities um we've seen the 30-year basically being this whatever you want to call it you know giant kind of if this was a a you know commodity or crypto you know you'd say this is like a big bull flag going back to um you know the 2022 high that was kind of put and call it around like, you know, 5 and a quarter uh% on the 30-year. Um and then the 10ear also just just hit uh new yearly highs over the last couple days.

Um so I think that that's the forcing function taking action, right? Like the politicians will continue to try to you know print money and and and you know misallocate capital because there's no real repercussions from it. They just want to get reelected. And so you know nobody's going to suddenly change anything unless there's a forcing function to cause the reaction for them to do something. And I think that has been the bond market. So that's kind of like what what has changed, right? Like the Bitcoin thesis has not changed over the last like six or 12 months at all. Um but I think now things are coming to a head which are favorable for it pairing with like some of the stuff we talked about the risks getting priced in for it. But um yeah, I mean so financial repression is basically when you're running

when when you're holding rates artificially so that inflation can outpace it. Um, and you know, it seems like Scott Besson's trying to basically run the economy at a at a greater pace than uh what our interest expense is. And when you have when you have the reserve currency and you're able to just print print the currency, you can say, "Okay, I'm going to lend, you know, I don't know, I'll lend lend $10 to to Andy and I'll I'll lend it to you at, you know, one one% uh interest rate." So, I'm supposed to pay back $11 10 plus one interest. And then I increased the money the money supply for the the units that I'm um you know uh paying you in by say 1%. Uh and now I'm able to pay back you know uh the same amount but it's

it's in in in you know real terms you're you're getting less money back. Um, and so you know that that that's kind of the only option for the US to service its debt load in in US dollar, you know, non-goldbacked fiat US dollar terms because, you know, what what what Duck obviously said is is is correct like the the the long bond is basically, you know, a marker for fiscal responsibility, but you know, no, I I mean it's just we we had I said this on this other podcast earlier with Red Guy, you know, we we put the smartest arguably one of the smartest operators in the history of the world in capitalism in a position to try to cut

spending and they started firebombing his storefronts and calling, you know, calling him a murderer and stuff. So, like I just don't think there's any appetite from that. So, you know, we we've we've seen we've seen there's actually, you know, periods going back in modern financial history where we've run financial repression before both the US and the UK. Um, after the Great Depression, coming out of it, you know, US was was in some trouble, especially, you know, tax receipts had dropped during the Great Depression because, you know, the economy tanked and so government's getting less money from the taxes generated on the economy. Um, plus, you know, plus stocks. Um, and then especially heading into into World War II, uh, debt to GDP really inflated in the US, uh, and then in in the UK it

was even worse. I think it was like north of like 200% debt to GDP. Um, and so what what did they do? Well, they basically just pegged what, you know, bond yields were. And then they put in capital controls, things like, you know, Bitcoiners, the hardcore Bitcoiners know very well this executive order 6102 in 1933 where FDR basically said you need to you need to turn in your gold at the current market price. The US hoarded all the gold from all of its private citizens and then marked it up, monetized it, and then that helped service their debt. Um, and then in the UK, you know, they would they would like limit your ability to move assets outside of the country and invest in like other, you know, foreign asset markets. And so, um, you know, we and and it worked. They were able to they

were able to substantially get their debt load down with steady inflation above above where borrowing costs were. Um, but you know, who gets hurt? It's it's people that are saving. It's it's, you know, giant pension funds uh and and foreign you know, foreign debt holders, you know, including some of our allies that are giant holders of our debt. Um, and so, you know, the the similarities are are are definitely there uh in terms of, you know, a period like that. um um and in and today and you know it may not look exactly the same but it's just kind of the math of it and you know you're looking and saying well no no one's going to cut spending so this is this is really the only alternative and you know what do you what do you want to own when that happens I mean probably pretty much

any asset but you know I I would suspect that like equities probably go up in USD terms but maybe down in like Bitcoin and and gold terms so I'm skewed towards more so trying to trying hold like hard assets from here. And so that's like the crux of this kind of fiat debasement trade which as you said at at the top was almost I mean at least for Bitcoin and you know even gold post January was almost kind of thrown to the wayside in favor of this AI buildout trade right and then now it kind of seems like due to this policy from Bessant the tides are kind of turning back a little bit to to this and perhaps we're still early for like this next this next leg of this you know fiat debasement trade that's

really been going on since the inception of Bitcoin and even prior all the way back to, you know, the 2000s or in the 90s. >> Yeah. No, I agree. I I think, you know, it's kind of a um you you had you had the the trail, you know, trailing end of the bare market kind of behavior. V floor lord potentially pricing in a lot of a lot of these, you know, risks that had already taken place. Um you know, pretty much a complete cleansing and flushing out of of the whole market. And then that leading into, you know, now we seemingly have have kind of a a narrative or maybe even a few narratives to to be excited about. So I I would say on like a six to 12 month basis, I mean, this is the most optimistic I've been about um Bitcoin and and crypto as well

broadly in a while. I mean, you know, you mentioned, you know, this segments about stable coins. Um you know, stable coins also are like a huge piece of this and something that wasn't around back then, right? Because now what they could do is they could try to move the debt load and this is what they are doing. >> Move the debt load into the shorter end of the curve or move it into bill issuance and then they can you know if Worsh plays ball with with with Bessant which is like kind of the final thing you'd be looking for to say okay we're fully in this financial repression regime would be to look to see like Wor kind of explicitly playing ball with him. you know, they they could cap cap short end rates, move all the debt issuance into into T bills in like very

short duration and then just put it all into stable coins. And so, you know, I think stable coins are great because, you know, they bank people in in parts of the world that are underbanked and like that's awesome and like I think that's really important. But like the real reason that stable coins are going to probably continue to proliferate is because they're a strategic tool for the US >> uh to to not only service it debt load but also, you know, have controls over over, you know, the movement of capital throughout the world. Um, so yeah, I mean that it all kind of ties right into >> Yeah, exactly. And so all of this, you know, rhetoric from Bessant about, you know, growing our way out of the debt, you know, seems like it's cover uh for

high inflation. And, you know, the outcome or the portfolio choice doesn't change either way. It's hard money whether we grow our way out of it or we inflate it away. Um, either way, you know, it results in hot hard money uh increasing in dollar denominated terms. But I think you're absolutely right and this is something we've been talking a lot about on the show is, you know, as they do this Treasury twist and the Fed twist and they twist duration out from the long end, you know, into the short end, someone needs to buy those bonds or excuse me, those short-term bonds, those bills and and you know, as they issue those, you know, the the Fed doesn't want to buy them. Worsh said he wants a smaller balance sheet, right? But they can they can shift the duration shortterm and shrink it at the same

time. And then I mentioned the Catrini article earlier walks through like what this deregulation process could look like if they, you know, do some regulatory innovation and they unlock some of this liquidity coverage ratio, some of the supplemental leverage ratio. There's a ton of idle liquidity in these banks that's been locked up since COVID, since 2022, and all of that could be unleashed and used to buy short-term bonds. And then the final piece of this being the stable coin basket is that you know all of the stable coin issuers especially once once they become genius compliant which we were talking earlier I think is set to be January 2027 it is just all more dry powder uh for these companies to buy short-term bills. Um

and then again what is you know why do the stable coins issue and then buy bills? They typically do that when the crypto market goes up. And so we've been memeing around with the idea that it's a national priority to make the crypto market go up because then cryp the stable coins need to issue more and then they need to buy more bills to back those that issuance. Um and so you're absolutely right that it's all interconnected and it's all a piece of this bigger puzzle for the country. >> Yeah, sure. No, I think those really I I need to maybe read this the training article. A lot of the financial banking plumbing stuff is very much far over my head and way above my pay grade. But, you know, just the basic idea that they can lower the the leverage requirements and allow banks to buy more buy more US

debt like that that makes sense at a very high level even if you don't have a deep understanding of it. So, uh you maybe maybe I'll have to to check that out. There's other things that you know I I I'm I'm trying to piece through kind of what high level you know what if there are any kind of 4D chess things they're trying to I mean you start wondering like you know as part of this too are they are they going to push capital out into other you know emerging markets or or uh ideally you know our allies capital markets and then that further invests into and funds uh foreign businesses which can then invest back and and and uh you know have more demand for for goods coming from the US.

So there's all these kinds of things that I think are intertwined and and and you could spend a lot of there's a lot of circular thinking in there, but we're at I think such an interesting time for the stuff where you could just like go on a walk and and just, you know, go through these like thought loops in your head and and and come to some pretty interesting conclusions. But um yeah, I think all of it kind of all all roads generally will will lead to Bitcoin over the long term. Like I said, I you know, I I picked up a lot of spot. Um I got a pretty good entry on in my personal portfolio. I I didn't think we're going to get this kind of move, but I don't really intend on doing anything with with with these holdings. Um, we could

even come back and retest the lows between now and the end of the year. Um, you know, I'm I'm kind of looking on a 3 6 9 12-month horizon. Um, with with a lot of these like big picture things, we could totally get V events between now and the end of the year. I mean, you know, today like oil's looking super murky. Like oil's oil's coiling up pretty hard, you know, same with the dollar. looks like it it might be finding some support here. Um so you know you're seeing you know yen's the yen's uh picking back up um USD JPY is back up to to 1 160 30 years tapping back on on um uh near the highs again. So you know there's like a lot of things that seem like they

could be brewing underneath the surface to cause you know some kind of short-term VA event and probably don't want to be like levered up during something like that. Um, which is why I'm personally just like holding spot because you can hold you can hold through the vault. Um, but yeah, man, I think the the longer term picture for BTC and and you know, I guess you know, stable coins in the broader asset classes is probably looking probably looking clearer than ever. >> Yep, I agree. Yep. Short shorter term V, but I mean it feels like I mean, dude, even a month ago, it was like we're not out of the woods. We're at 62K. It's like now it's like there's a kind of a sense of relief underpinning our portfolio, just our general view. And

then last thing that I wanted to kind of throw your way, which is more in the short term, we got a couple big events coming up. So we've got September 9th, uh, Secretary of Treasury Scott Besson should be uh, doing the next round of bond buying. Then we've got the Clarity Act vote September 15th. And we've got a Fed Wars rate hike or no hike decision, which ironically he started that speech last week with two dialogues on actual hikes that he had been on in Jackson Hole with previous Fed chair members and then went on to say that forward guidance is something that he does not want to practice and that he does not believe in. And so my simple leftbrain here, you know, left curve is like, well, if he hikes, then he just did forward guidance because he started this

speech talking about hikes. If he hikes after he started this speech talking about hikes, then he's gone against his biggest rule. So my my, you know, left curve is like he's not going to hike. But what what are your thoughts on September 9th with the bond buying, the Clarity Act ruling, and the Fed chair decision as we go into the rest of the month? Uh, I know we're low on time here. >> Um, yeah, I I think I I don't have a strong view and I don't have any positions basically wagering on what what exactly the Fed does. Um, you know, I I I do think that the markets kind of priced in hikes even though he's doing this not not forward guidance forward guidance thing. I mean, you know, basically from the last meeting like the the the odds of of rate hikes has has

gone up. Um, you know, dollars come come up. Um, so I I don't know about, you know, is he really not providing uh uh forward guidance, but what what I do know is like they're in such a precarious position. You know, if they hike rates, that could that could negatively impact the yen, which could cause BOJ to need to sell treasuries to defend. Uh if they cut rates, then it probably juices inflation and the economy, and that pushes up on the long end. Um, so you know, again, I just think like these things are interesting.

They they impact the market in the short term, but like I I think for me personally, the the the longer term picture is is becoming a lot more clear than it than it's been in a while. And so for me, it I'm happy to just kind of hold through any of these V events that come about from any of these things that I'm not able to to pick, you know, pick spots on in in kind of the short term. So, we'll see. >> Just real quick, Will, before we let you go, is there any other hard money assets that you're looking at aside from Bitcoin?

>> Um, I mean, I like Bitcoin. Um, gold is good. Um, you know, I I I took a small uh position in Zcash as well. I think that that's also interesting. I don't know if I, you know, would would remotely say that it is is on the same level of like Bitcoin in my eyes as being like a monetary pure, you know, actual monetary asset that people are going to like want to hold in size. But, uh, you know, I bought a little bit just so I'm not salty if it if it does really well. >> Um, yeah, maybe maybe land as well uh in like certain areas that are that are more friendly than others. Um, you know, obviously we're seeing the rise of socialism in certain areas. um you know, mandanis of the world, etc. So, you

know, maybe maybe it's interesting to to hold land in in places where um you know, maybe they're they're set up to to benefit from some of these, you know, pressures that we're talking about. >> Yeah, makes sense. Cool. Will, thanks so much, man. Absolute pleasure and uh great takes and we'll see you at 100K. >> Very insightful. >> Well, thank you guys. Hopefully we get to chat again soon. This is fun. >> Yeah, let's do it. >> All right, Will. >> Thank you. Have a great day. See you guys, >> man. Just recap this, Rob. I mean, okay, so start with the start with the state of um the hard money thesis, right? This is just the key takeaway for me is like, sure, there's some events that are coming, you know, in September,

short-term uh leverage washouts, pullbacks, whatever. In any typical bull rally, when you get off the lows, you typically do come back and test them at some point or at least test some sort of buying pressure, whether it's 10%, 20%, 30% higher. So that, you know, may be coming. But the biggest takeaway is regardless of what happens this quarter and even in Q4, the long-term trend for crypto, for gold, for land, for real estate, for silver, for even you could put collectibles has never been clear. >> Yeah, you're not wrong. those supply >> and we've been in this regime for the last year that felt like outside of you know commodities having a repricing >> it was all this AI speculative

innovative tech buildout boom but now it it very clearly feels like the tides are shifting back to reality where investors are not necessarily believing less in tech or in AI but thinking more broadly about the effects of the macroeconomic regime on their ability to preserve erve their purchasing power longer term. >> Yeah, I think that's exactly right because if you think about the reflexivity of these different asset classes and given that you and I are kind of cryptonative, I think you know we can put it in in cryptonative terms like what happens when you take liquidity out of a liquidity pool, it ends up becoming a lot more volatile.

And so what they're doing right now is exactly this but in the bond market. So they're taking duration out of the bond market like 10 year and 30-year they're removing which means it's going to get a lot more volatile and so people want to protect their their long-term view of the world their long-term financial situation and because bonds and some of these things that have typically been the way to protect your assets long term because those traditional mechanisms of capital are becoming a lot more volatile. it makes sense that you're going to end up finding a replacement to that use case that no longer works with the thing that typically was working.

And so, Bitcoin is kind of filling that role as the hedge, as the monetary premium, you know, the thing that people are using to protect their long-term capital because it is a hedge against exactly what the risk is now, and that is exorbitant long-term bond yields. People are protecting against that and they're protecting against that with Bitcoin and other hard [clears throat] money assets like gold and land and to some extent Zcash >> and real estate and you know I mean I've got my gold and silver holdings that I >> the only good thing that I did after 2021 bull market was buy gold and house.

The house has been a real pain in the ass. Should have bought Nvidia, but I got the gold and the silver just stored away. So those are looking good. got the property and hopefully we just can continue. You know, I think about it as like as like buckets, right? But the underlying thesis that I'm that my entire portfolio is predicated on is on the fiat debasement >> and and Will calls that financial repression, >> right? >> Which I think is something that we realized early on. It's one of the reasons that we got into this space originally and that has never changed. And and you know, >> there's plenty of people that talk about this. There's only two ways to fix the fiscal situation. Uh the debasement, the fiat hyperinflation, whatever you want to call it. There's only two ways to fix

it. One of them is austerity, right? Which means politicians have to spend less money. We tried that. Like literally and and Will said this, Elon try like one of the smartest people on the planet, you know, him and Trump teamed up, right? basically gave the smartest person and the person with the most power at any given time teamed up to try to make the government spend less money. It didn't work. It fell flat on its face. They cut uh just I mean like a drop in the bucket if we're looking at this on the relative basis. And so I mean that is out the window, right?

Austerity is not happening. And so the only other way to fix the fiscal situation is to inflate your way out of it, grow your way out of it. There's a bunch of different financial repression. These are all words that mean the same thing. It means money printer, turn on, go burr. And this is why we've been saying on the show, I mean, like this is I mean, we're calling it the pre-bull. That's kind of a meme, but it's also like they're preheating the money printer because they, you know, the things that they're doing right now at the Treasury level and the Fed level aren't technically quantitative easing.

They're not technically injecting new money into the circulating monetary supply. But what they are doing is taking the duration out of the market. meaning that the money that you thought might have got printed 10 years or 30 years down the road is going to get printed in the next two to five years. And I think that's what the market is sniffing out. That's why Bitcoin's going up. And that's why we're saying that because it's going to get printed in the near term. They're preheating the money printer and that's going to get turned on. And you want to be allocated or exposed to hard money scarce assets when it does. That's what we're doing with our portfolio.

>> Exactly. And also markets are forward-looking, right guys? So, you know, when the rates come down or when the, you know, the news comes out that, oh, we've got this massive, you know, Treasury buyback on September 9th or whatever it is, >> right? The market's going to have already priced a lot of that in. I mean, that's why you see Bitcoin rebounding as soon as that news came out about, you know, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant buying bonds. It wasn't like, oh, then let's, you know, Bitcoin had already ripped and it just kept going. And so, same thing's going to happen, right? As more and more of these policy changes come out, the market will have already priced these things in. And so, that's why from our perspective, we can

navigate some short-term vault. We can navigate some leverage wipeouts. can navigate some, you know, distant, you know, volatility of rates, of clarity, of whatever because the market's going to be forward-looking enough to know what's happening. And that's what Will is saying. He's like, look, I don't know what's going to happen next month, next year, but I do know that like on a 12 plus month time horizon, the picture has never been clear. This is where we're going. The market's going to catch up. It's already catching up. We're we just got to the first phase of Bitcoin bottoming. Kind of call it the apathetic bottom where sellers ran out. You know, we ran out of sellers. what we're going

to enter next is going to be the FOMO phase where people realize all the way up to Bitcoin new all-time highs that this is happening that we are now in a regime that is not as uh abrupt or um strong in terms of the printing of the capital like co but over time the Fed and the Treasury and Trump will continue to show their hands and I think that is kind of like the clear takeaway here is >> the market will catch up and we're in a good spot here if you're positioned and that's it.

>> Yeah. I mean, you know, this is basically like monetary macroeconomic regime change. >> Yes. >> And you've got >> because we've been in this kind of restrictive >> Yeah. >> policy perspective since co since trying to walk back what happened during CO this feels like that's why last cycle was kind of like >> it was a cycle but it wasn't really people weren't really like euphoric. We didn't get this crazy move on Bitcoin to end it. We didn't get this crazy alt move. That's why this cycle's already been crazier from onchain, from hyperlquid, these assets doing well, Zcash, because we're we're at the preheating phase >> of this, you know. Yeah, that's right.

Of this oven, right? Changing this changing of the policy. >> That's right. And slowly >> the pre It does. And the previous cycle is like kind of a good barometer because we didn't get a lot of those like very euphoric frenzy like activities. Exactly. >> And and now you've got the confluence of factors, right? You've got the macro picture at the same time that you got legitimization of the industry at the same time that you have uh you know fundamentals improving on chain. Like there's multiple things that are converging whereas previously it was really just kind of like you know this this like political narrative. Trump is pro crypto and he's going to pump our bags. And so you ended up with this

runup, right? February, right? But we didn't get e an eth all-time high, right? And so we were kind of missing like a big part of the bull picture, which is this, you know, macro thesis in addition to other components of this. Um and so I think I I I think this is like you know this regime change at the macro level is just you know they say the rising tide lifts all boats and I mean macro is like Neptune like literally like you know at the most at the deepest parts of the ocean we're starting to see the current shift and so I mean the Treasury Fed Accord like you were in Jackson Hole they were talking about innovation.

>> Yep. Now they're at the G20. They're talking about growth. Like these are not restrictive policy rhetoric nomenclature. Like this is this is >> animal spirits bold up accommodative like move fast and accelerate rhetoric nomenclature linguistic tools that they can use to signal to the market. So this is a different regime. Like even the body language of like Kevin Worsh and Bessant, right, is a 180 degree shift from Jerome Powell, right?

And so this is signaling to the market and people might might not realize that it you know that this is the case, but this is a fundamental shift in the way that these things are doing business. Worsh and Bessant are also like believers in the AI buildout. And there's like again there's multiple things that are all sort of converging to a very central thesis around this debasement trade. One of them being you know are you know the the stock market being so big that they'd have to bail it out. Uh the government taking an equity position in AI companies again maybe having to bail them out. like the Treasury and the Fed are talking about AI as it's the most fundamental

shift in the in the world in in the last few decades. This is important not only to the economy, but this is sort of the propellant that they're using to fuel the rhetoric of growing our way out of the debt. And if you have the AI bubble pop, all of a sudden you lose control of the narrative. And so why would you lose control of the narrative when you also control the money printer, the you're not going to control the narrative. You're not going to lose control of the narrative. You're going to print the money to bail out the companies so that you can continue to control the narrative. And I think Bessant right now controls the narrative. And I think Worsh is playing along. I don't think Wars is a very

egotistical guy. He's pretty soft-spoken. I think he's powerful. And I think he's humble and he's okay letting Bessant sort of take the spotlight and just go out there at the G20, add all these things, take a lot of the heat for the Iran war. I don't think Wars wants to get caught up in all that. Bessent is running cover saying that he's going to grow his way out of the out of the debt and that is going to [snorts] basically right give people the reason as to why we're going to run the economy hot. It's not because we're going to, you know, basically do this financial repression business. It's because we need to grow our way out of the debt. Either way, what we result the result is high inflation and the result is uh financial repression. And so in that regime, you want to be owning hard

assets >> and there's there's not that many out there, man. Yeah, gold, Bitcoin, silver, >> Bitcoin, real estate, real estrlexive asset, >> huge >> uh conversation is just cherry on top. Cherry on top, man. >> Yeah, it's like it's like, you know, obviously the hard money scarce asset with growth potential. >> Yeah. With maximum reflexivity. Well, Will was right on oil here. Um, >> oh, we're we're bombing hard right now.

>> Yeah. So, apparently we're bombing hard. Let me pull up my screen here, guys. Um, because yeah, oil is has starting to rip a bit. Um, so >> yeah, I mean, >> while you pull that up, there's one more thing that I'll mention. um which is that you know whi and will mentioned this and we can go ahead and pull this up but will mentioned something about you know they're at the G20 and you know there might be a a push to try to like get these emerging markets heated up so that they invest more in the U like you know the credit creation that is happening at you know central banks around the world and and you know they they're going to

increase the amount of credit that's created and then invested in the US. I think there could be an element of that, but also I think part of the macro situation that isn't getting talked about so much or people aren't kind of, you know, missing >> is the banks inside of the US. Like for so long, we've looked at the Fed as the mechanism to deploy quantitative easing and increase the money supply. People forget that banks can issue credit and banks can issue >> stable coins soon, very soon. Soon they can issue stable coins, but they can also create money. Like they have a little mini money printer in their own right. And I think similar to the way Will is talking about creating credit at ex at at non US central banks, I think

we're also going to get a a banking reform, call it deregulation, right? where they remove some of these supplemental leverage ratios and they end up allowing these banks to create a lot more credit and you almost get this quantitative easing effect from within the US not from the Fed because they want to shrink the Fed's balance sheet but at all of the regional banks all of the commercial banks within the US. >> So gold here is on quite a tear today. Um, >> I'm long. >> So, >> but you know, Bitcoin is kind of just steady and so >> yeah, it's it's definitely holding.

It looks it looks a little ugly, but we're good. >> Yeah, I'm just curious as to why we might get a a decoupling or a or a decorrelation between gold and Bitcoin cuz for the last couple months, >> oil is kind of the canary in the in the in the coal mine, right? No pun intended there. I mean, Ze is just holding strong, right? Pump kind of pulling back a bit. Hype pulling back. So, kind of like the the nonmonetary at Purr pulling back quite a bit. Uh the like the nonmonetary things are kind of pulling back a bit.

Lighter is doing surprisingly strong. Um but yeah, BTC is just kind of reacting to gold here. You're saying like oil like the reaction to oil is somewhat different even though gold and Bitcoin are both hard money assets, right? >> Gold reacts to an uptick in Bitcoin positively while Bitcoin reacts negatively. >> So gold is on quite a bit of a downturn here from the high that it put in. >> Oh, okay. >> Also down a significant chunk today because of oil increasing. >> So oil is still the canary in the coal mine here.

Okay. >> Yeah. >> Got it. >> Yeah. All right, guys. Super quick break, then we're going to get through. We got a ton of stuff to talk about. Robin Hood chain news, charts, markets, positions, and more. Uh we'll be right back in, I don't know, less than a minute or so. Don't go anywhere, guys. If you guys are watching on YouTube, please, if you guys enjoyed the content so far, throw us a like, subscribe to the channel. Means the world to us. Easiest way to support the channel. Do it now. Turn notifications on. We're live every single day. If you're new here, we're making money. We are up from the lows. It's been a huge month for us.

We're going to go over the monthly closes, what's happening on Robin Hood chain, more on the markets and macro and news here in just a second. We'll be right back. [music] [music] >> [music] >> We get deep. We get know we get deep.

Get we get deep know we get deep know we get deep we get deep know we get deep [music] know we get deep we get deep know we get deep we [music] get we get deep we get deep we >> [music] >> We get deep.

You know, we get [music] [music] [music] We get We get We get deep. You know we get deep. [music] We get deep. We get deep. You know we get deep.

[music] [music] [music] All righty, guys. Um, so Hyperloop Strategies comes out of nowhere. I mean, their MNAV ripped to 1.37 >> last week, >> which was nuts. And so they came in and they started just smashing >> smashing hype. So they they accumulated

93 million uh dollars worth of hype, about 1.14 million, which if I pull up HL Eco pulls them to a total of 29.36 million hype. ABNAV right now is 1.14. So they're probably chilling. They're probably playing squash now. Um you know, they of course wanted to see the breakout to 100 just like the rest of us. We'll have to be a bit more patient for that. Um, but yeah, if you scroll down, I mean, this is one of the biggest weeks that we've seen uh from them. I mean, this is a massive, massive, massive week.

>> Sensational. >> So, I mean, look at this. I mean, they deployed. I mean, this is the biggest week ever. 13 $93 million worth. So, second biggest week uh last week. Um, you know, prior week came. So honestly for all my per people out there who are trading and um you know managing that I I tend to think about purr as like when you see these massive buys coming from hyperlquid strategies and you see these massive uh mnav expansions that's likely a good time to taper some of your position. So like I didn't sell any at 14 or whatever it hit. it hit like 1410, but now we're

back to like 11.2 and pulling back, right? Because Sheamus and Diamond hit the ATM hard to buy a ton of hype. So, that's a lesson learned for me. Um, in the next expansion, the next inevitable MNAV expansion, when this MNAV gets back up to 1.2, 1.3, hype's ripping, purr's outperforming, it's a good time to trim some off. It's a good time to trim some off. So, lesson learned there. um not really too pressed to be honest. I think hype is well on its road to 100. I think if you thought it was just going to give you the road to 100 easily. I think you know probably a lot of leverage traders

trying to time these breakouts. I mean we had one failed breakout last Sunday. We had another failed one last Thursday. We had another what could be considered a failed one yesterday. So, just like I don't know, there's probably people 10 to 20x longing these breakouts and just getting chopped up right now. So, I think this is normal. I'm not really worried about hype's lack of breakout here. To me, it's just a normal it's just a normal thing. Um, but the lesson that I would take away from this is that um yeah, when per MNAV gets to that 1 three 1.4 four level. If it if it gets there and you know that they're hitting the ATM hard, it's probably a good place to offset some per into either

underlying or just something else. So, take profit and take intern to dinner. Bam. More Zcash dubious rationale. I've been trying to hodddle, but they won't allow it. I'm a mid to long-term swing trader, but I'm going to be forced to day trade now to survive. No, you're not. You got to just chill out, freedom guy. We're all good. We're going to be we're going to be higher by the end of the week. We're gonna be hot by the end of the week. >> Yeah, we'll see. I think uh I think we are going to get like I said a chop and then you know people are going to start to look forward to this buyback thing. >> Yeah. On on the 9th, right? So about a week away.

>> Yeah. So we don't know how big that's going to be but I think people are just going to directionally see that as a bullish indicator. >> Yeah. >> What do you think about Will uh you know kind of poo pooing revenue assets in favor of hard money assets? >> I think he's spot on. You know, in the bull, you know, the reflexivity of hard assets with no ceiling works wonders, >> right? >> It's like the re like you start making some revenue, it's never enough. It kind of gives you a tether to reality. >> Yes. Like there's a higher floor but a lower ceiling.

>> That's the beauty thing. That's the beautiful thing about the barbell assets >> is that you get this reflexivity with Bitcoin and Zcash and the bull where they could be the highest performing assets in your portfolio >> but you know on pullbacks and things hype pump lighter etc should more or less have a have less volatility less re reflexivity I mean dude hyperlink is coming to the United States of America what are we even saying >> yeah so should we talk about that I mean the there's massive implications of this, right? Like obviously, you know, there's all kinds of new markets that have been listed.

>> Yep. >> And perpetuals, right? >> I mean, hype's coming to the US. It's all but guaranteed at this point. >> Yeah. I mean, they're in talks with uh Payword, Kraken's parent company, about using a subsidiary, Bitnomial, which Kraken acquired later or excuse me, earlier this year or or late last year. uh and Hyperlquid could go through them, maybe acquire them from Kraken or just partner up uh to bring Hyperlquid Markets into the US. Uh I mean, this would give them institutional exposure for anyone who wants to use PERPS on any of these listings. Um and so obviously crypto, but also equities, preIPO markets, uh as well as you know,

commodity markets and bonds. Yeah. >> Chatting with the hip through deployer um who listed the 30-year and the 10-year on >> Hyperlid. Yeah. Paragon. >> Paragon. Yeah. Exactly. So, I mean massive unlock of liquidity and open interest and volume and potential uptick in fees and I think that helped to drive uh you know a little bit of a move. But obviously, you know, as this potential market turns into a kinetic market, this potential energy turns into kinetic energy, you know, we're going to end up realizing a lot of the opportunities that we're just talking about now.

>> And I think the benefit of that is obviously, you know, we're like, oh, hyperquin in the US is going to be huge. Yeah. But it's difficult to really quantify like how huge it really is. And I'm curious like if there's any research out there as far as like what people think, you know, the uptick in OI or uptick in volume is going to translate to in terms of added revenue or fees because it might be like way more than that. We really don't know because it is so difficult to quantify. >> Yep, I agree. But it's bullish. That's for sure. Trump said hyper.

>> It's direction. It's directionally bullish. >> Trump knows about Hyperlid. That's all that matters for now. >> For now. And we got Ryan Watkins on this week. I've got a podcast with the Hyperlquid Policy Center uh CEO Jake Tvinsky as well in the tower tomorrow morning. So that'll be very very very informative. All right, let's keep it rolling. Um >> the cameras hit $1, >> so GoPro, >> but I think we uh this is Togei who's a >> not a typical Andy. You sent this one of the curators. Ch.

>> They like CTOed GoPro. I don't know. I don't have my run a show. So, um I I don't know what happened here, but >> the printer ran out of ink. That's what happened. >> I saw a GoPro I saw GoPro got acquired. >> So, >> because merger claim, a post claims GoPro is being acquired by Starman Optical for A14 per share. Uh, it's priced at 87 cents according to the screenshot. Uh, that's below the pre-market price. GoPro was reportedly halted around a$160 pre-market, meaning anyone buying the spike would face a substantial loss if a14 deal price were real.

>> Uh, rumor driven volatility. The situation illustrates the risk of chasing micro crap takeover speculation. Uh, GoPro has been exploring strategic alternatives, including a potential sale or merger, providing a plausible backdrop for acquisition. Currently, no evidence supporting the specific Starman optical transaction. I mean, GoPro's strategic review makes it fertile ground for takeover speculation, but this specific deal appears unverified, highlighting how quickly rumors can create extreme price dislocations in a retail driven micro cap. Yeah, I mean >> the takeaway here is that, you know, this thing moved 46% in a day. Rumors at getting acquired at 114.

>> Yep. They will receive 114 per share in cash. So all the shareholders massive win and retain roughly 10% of the combined company and then $92 million of GoPro debt will be repaid at closing. And yeah, Mark Pelleier posted a video praising GoPro's new camera. And then Bloomberg reported that he owns 8.5% of the stock. Boom. moment spiked 46% on Monday and they announced a $285 $285 million allcash merger with Starman Optical. He doubled his position in under two months, made almost $8 million.

And apparently the stock was trading at $156 pre-market before this was announced. And so if you pull up my screen here, you can see what Togei said here. So he's like, "Why am I only getting a $114 for a stock that is trading at a $160, right?" Like, what kind of sense does that make? You You mean to tell me I'm getting paid $114 per share for on a Stomp that was trading $160?

His cost basis was 72 and you keep 10%. So yeah, this guy's been on a crazy T. I mean, look at this. >> This guy's a I I've seen this guy. I think typically he's a gambler. He's like, >> "Oh, here we go. He just put a He He just put a tweet. He bought 56,000 at 72, sold 560,000 $132 average $36,000 profit. >> Wow. [laughter] >> First comment.

>> Massive win. >> Yeah, huge win. Huge win. Crazy crazy trade. Honestly, >> I think honestly what I take away from this is that the look, if I understand this guy's lore correctly, he was like a gambler guy. Uh like one of the, you know drinker partier streamer YouTube gambler guys, but now he's a social trader. Like now he just hit 300K on GoPro and now uh social trading is the biggest, you know, phenomenon for Zoomers to get famous. Like this guy just hit it in public.

I mean, it's pretty crazy. >> We also see you tweeting in real time. Trump said hyperlquid on national TV last week and this week he bombed Iran after one week of green. Guys, go give Andy a like. Go give Andy a like on this tweet. You can't make this up. You [laughter] can't. This guy can't make up his mind. Go give him a tweet. Show him some dopa. All right, guys. Let's get back into it. Athena Pay has launched. Um, also guys, this guy's cooking. This guy's cooking.

Let me give you a quick update here before we get back into this. Do not follow what I'm doing here. I am clearly not a good trader. Um so I bought Lil O. I top blasted it. I'm down three G's. >> [sighs] >> I'm down three G's, but Eric just keeps aping. Okay, Eric just bought Bumba. >> You better go ape Bumba. >> Eric bought Bomba.

Wait, is he actually in? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He He's in. He just bought it. It's ripping. I'm in. Am I in? I'm in. I'm in. I'm in. I'm in. All right, let's go, Bumble. I don't even know what it is, but every time I see Eric buy something now, I'm just trailing it. It's my only strategy on FOMO. >> This guy is He's just got an edge on you. What is he? You're just going to just tail this guy, >> bro. Look at his P&L curve, bro.

>> Wow. >> Bro, I mean, come on. And look, he keeps buying Lil Oonie. Like, he even toplasted. I need him to buy some more, >> bro. This is so ridiculous. >> All righty, back to Athena Pay. >> You know, one of the Yeah, we'll hit Athena Pay, but Robin Hood's coming out with potentially a social trading thing as well. >> Yeah, I think we have that on on the notes here. >> Okay, so Athena Pay is the internet money neo bank. It's built on Avac. We are going to be live at AVX Summit on September 16th and 17th, guys.

Announcing it here today. We are very excited. I heard Kevin Ori is going to be there. I think he's bullish on Bitcoin and AVAC. Uh we're friends of the AVAC ecosystem. Hope to see you guys in New York on the 16th and 17th of this month. Uh let's go ahead and play the video. Uh congratulations to both the Athena team and the AVAC team for this partnership and launch. last. Last [music] one.

[music] The last one [music] [music] 10 out of 10 video. I mean 10 out of 10 videos >> 10 10 out of 10 music.

>> Yeah. >> Phenomenal. >> Um so curious your take and then I'm gonna pull my screen up because there's something interesting here. >> So Neoank's on the rise uh makes sense as the primary distribution channel for stable coins. We know stable coins are a priority uh for national economic security here in the US. There's going to be a massive buildout. We're going to get to three trillion stable coins. That's a 10x which means Athena is going to see massive growth in its amount of issuance. Um obviously you know >> the US government needs to finance its short end of the curve. It's going to issue a ton of bills. Stable coins are going to eat a lot of that up. But then stable coins need to go and issue stable coins uh to balance out the bonds that they're going to buy from the

government. And then you need to distribute all of those stable coins somewhere. Maybe it's just as a result of liquidity pairs that are, you know, paired with uh crypto assets going up. But then also maybe it is uh Neo Bank uh to distribute stable coins far and wide. So congratulations to Athena. Yes. What do you have? What do you have >> pulling over? So there's a Athena DAT called um stablecoin X and >> look at that chart. >> It is it has exploded and this is in log scale too, right? Like if you take off log scale I mean it's obviously got dump but it's just popped. I do all my charts in log scale. Um, and what's interesting here is

this is that in terms of its MNAV, it's actually significantly trading less, right? It's unlocked MNAV in terms of how much m, you know, Athena it holds. Um, unlocked is about one to one, but it is it is it's had a crazy run, but there is a I got to do some more research, but there's a trade here that has been taken clearly by the market where this stock was trading far less than the than one to one MNAV. like it

was trading down here last last couple weeks and the market didn't realize that it was like far less than like it was literally trading at a market cap that was significantly less than the holdings. And so I don't know if this trade is over. It sure looks to be slowing down, but it was it's just interesting because I didn't really see that many people talking about it except for um Daniel Chung.

So, think USDE triples here on MNAV expansion alone. Just a feeling. So, Like it's just kind of weird. Like this could be a crazy crazy opportunity, huh? I mean, Athena ramped up.

>> It had a huge run. C stock significantly owns more ENA tokens in dollar value than its entire stock market cap, >> right? So that mean I mean that means the MNAV is positive. That's all that means. >> How much? >> No, it's negative. >> How is the MNAV ne the MNAV? >> Yes. The stock owns significantly more tokens than its entire stock market cap.

the current value of >> the the the MNAV MNAV is net asset value and so if it owns more net asset it's has more assets in it than its market cap >> correct >> yeah that means the MNAV is above one >> no it doesn't it's the opposite if it's one one right if it's one one then let's say it owns 500 million of tokens and the market cap is 500 million Okay. >> Right. >> That would be a that would be an MNAV of one, >> right? But in this case, it owns 490 million tokens and only has a mark cap of 200 million. So, it's about 04.

>> Embarrassing, >> right? You see what I mean? >> I see what you mean, but I >> 43 stable coin X versus ENA treasury. But I don't know what this unlocked MNAV is. The total ENA NAV 478 million unlocked NAV. It means it doesn't have this much liquid. It has to wait. I I I think they're vested or something. >> Okay. Okay. >> But that's the trade is that the MNAV is if you were to count it as it was all like there's a there's a illiquidity premium here and the market's sniffing it out.

H >> right because the market's like why is you know look at this I mean Athena went on a huge run but this stock is up a ton and it's basically still under >> it's trading at a huge discount. You see what I mean?

>> I see. I see what you mean. Yeah. >> Implied discount 55% to its fully diluted net asset value. >> Andy, maybe there's a dumb question though, but the ATMs that these that these DATs do, right, they ATM shares, right? So, they sell shares once they're above one MNAV, >> right? which means that, you know, they're able to do that because the assets in their company exceed the amount of their market cap.

>> It's the other way. >> It's because the stock pumps harder than the assets that it holds underneath. So, hype goes up 3%, per goes up 20%. All of a sudden, per stock is worth more than the underlying holdings. So, you can sell the stock to buy more of the underlying. >> I see. Okay. And so so there's a dilution risk. They just filed an they just filed a prospectus with SEC to register up to 31 million new potential shares. Sponsor warrants. The sheer amount of equity dilution is terrifying.

[laughter] Oh, this is why on October 5th all the tokens get unlocked. But what's the what's the r the risk is that >> is that Athena dumps. >> Oh, so it's not just their tokens, it's all of the Athena. >> So you have both a dilution of the shares, 19 million shares that was just filed yesterday. >> Mhm. >> And you have a massive unlock, >> right? Well, I mean it it's going to balance out a little bit because they have some of those vested coins. So there's going to be a massive unlock on Athena. Some of >> they got the fee switch on.

>> This this company's coins are going to be unlocked. >> So look, if you're bullish Athena, if you're bullish crypto leading up to this unlock, this could be a really interesting trade. Yep. like this is what Daniel's saying is that he thinks it triples from here just based on MNAV expansion.

>> I mean the expansion it's just getting it back to net asset value. >> That's what I mean. Right. We're at a discount here. if we were trading like >> Yeah. I mean, you said the MNAV was like 0.4 or something if it just I mean it it could 2x and just get back at par of what the assets in the company holds. And the ticker is USDE on uh on a brokerage. >> Yes. It's this.

It's interesting. Yeah, man. The the total market cap is 200 million while the Athena portfolio sits at 484 million. It's completely dislocated. >> Yeah. >> So, this is what it would be trading at if it was just trading at one >> 20 bucks. Yeah. What is it at now? 850. >> Yeah, >> 840.

>> Well, that sounds about right. I mean, because that, you know, the asset value and the MNAV would be like a two and a halfx to get to par >> and you've got locked tokens that they have to worry about. >> And so, what did uh what did it say was the bare case against the trading back at par because they've got this dilution? Um, >> the Athena unlocks doesn't I mean, you know, >> if the market >> so dumb. >> What's that? >> The ai is so dumb.

>> Embarrassing. >> It says now September 2nd is the unlock. I think the voting proposal. Okay. The routine unlock, the massive all at once unlock is in October. Unlocks are bullish. >> Um, what do you say we move on?

>> Yeah, this is interesting. This is interesting. I might have to put on a trade here. you going to dabble? >> I think so. See what the chat's saying. Where's the trade? Buying Athena. No, I think it's this USD thing because of the um because of the uh of the MNAV expansion possibility. That's the trade. I think >> I don't know how to underate underwrite the size of these things, you know? like I think we've got our core positions and then we talked earlier about like setting aside like you know a small pool of capital to just kind of mess around with >> and then you know these like timing you know shortterm swing trade type of

thesis driven things like how do you size something like this? >> I have no idea. >> Yeah, neither do I. 50 G's >> 25 >> probably, right? I mean, some enough to make it matter. >> Yeah. All right, let's go to Eric here. Um, I don't still don't think people understand what is about to happen. Um, yeah. I mean, I think we know what's about to happen and I think it is an onslaught of tokenized assets in all shapes and sizes. Uh let me tell you guys about 1 in our shared liquidity protocol partner who is well positioned [cheering and screaming] uh as the asset class buildout happens

on chain. Tokenized assets in like I said many shapes and forms equities commodities and the like are being brought on chain. One can help you swap between them. uh shared liquidity protocol Aqua lets you keep your liquidity in your wallet and only pulls it when it will generate fees for you on 1 in Aqua. Uh I still don't think people understand what is about to happen. Andy, what do you think is about to happen? >> Uh well, Eric is talking about Robin Hood chain. He's talking about the insane uh stock market mimemetic flywheel that's coming which is these meme coins taking a large ownership of onchain

equities and then pumping the price of these equities on chain and then that reflecting in brokerage accountants in an actual equities markets meme coins on Robin Hood chain drastically changing the course of different stocks in the NASDAQ. That is what Eric is talking about. And that is crazy. That is crazy that this is the world that we've gotten to where Robin Hood chain memes are changing the outcome of large equities. That's what he's talking about. I think >> it's pretty nuts.

>> Yeah, >> it's pretty nuts. tokenized equities. You know, right now there is this massive dislocation in price between tokenized equities and off-chain traditional shares. >> Yeah, >> I think this is a phenomenon that is not going to last very long. I think it's an ephemeral thing, the the price dislocation. Yeah, >> I think as tokenized equities get more built out and there's more liquidity on these tokenized shares, the liquidity profile ends up closing that gap. Obviously, the traditional shares are much more liquid. Obviously, price discovery happens during market hours on traditional brokerages in these

traditional off-chain non-tokenized p uh equities right now. But as this liquidity profile balances out and more of the flows shift on chain into the tokenized versions of those, that is when you're going to see price discovery flip. And then we're going to be talking about why it's dislocated on, you know, the NASDAQ or the or the New York Stock Exchange and onchain tokenized equities are leading price discovery and then they're going to get arbed back and this, you know, combo this with NASDAQ, New York Stock Exchange, and everyone else launching their 247 markets >> and then you end up with these liquidity profiles that never really have a chance

to get dislocated because there's always a market maker arbitrageer online to arbit it back to par. >> Well, let me show you something here. Uh, pull up the screen. Uh, so Eric's saying Squeeze gets it, which is, um, this guy Squeeze Madden about this. I don't think people understand what's about to happen where, uh, Squeeze is saying that, you know, this marketing matters more than you may think. A public company, a public company, Can we pull the screen up, please? A public company normally spends enormous amounts trying to manufacture attention through advertising, investor relations, influencers, affiliate and brand campaigns. A stock meme community can create a weird organic version of four

all at once. People make memes, analyze earnings, monitor short interests, discuss products, create dashboards, recruit new holders, and produce content ever every time the underlying company sneezes. And HIMS is unusually compatible with this because the overlap is almost comically clean. youngish male crypto audience, hair loss, sexual health, weight loss, peptides, meme name poner. The meme doesn't have to awkwardly force itself into the company. The company's actual product line continuously feeds the joke. So, this is the responsibilities of a CTO, right? Like this this is we've talked about how, you know, like these these FOMO meme coins, right? you kind of CTO one you take you know you you take uh control or assume responsibility of some of the inner

workings kind of what it's talking about shortens uh short interest sentiment you know these different things uh then you can have like this >> basically like this Wall Street bets like GameStop warrior kind of community that ends up going to war for your company >> exactly because they own the meme that is reflexively um >> linked to it. Exactly. >> Exactly. >> All right, guys. Let's get into our daily equity segment of the day from our friend Tom Lee.

So, consensus is cautious about equity markets for September for obvious reasons. Fed hike, AI headwinds, bad seasonals. This is everything that we've been talking about uh on the show, what we're watching and looking for on the macro landscape. It's the Treasury buybacks next week. It's the FOMC meeting the week after. It's the clarity vote. Uh it's all of these AI headwinds seasonality as well. But to us, as Tom Lee says, this is a setup for a positive surprise. Strong returns for stocks in September. I completely agree at a high level with Tom Lee. I think we're going to get a massive buyback of the long end of the bond curve from Besset next week.

I think Worsh is going to surprise a lot of people and not do anything. I don't think he's going to change rates at all in the FOMC meeting on September 15th. We've got the Clarity Act and then, you know, we've also got inflation data coming in as well. And, you know, these recent Iran bombings are not going to make an impact on inflation data coming up. And so I think Tom Le's got it nailed and uh we're set up for a surprise to the upside. >> I think there's a video going with this. Let's go ahead and play it.

>> Yeah, I mean I agree. I mean there's a lot of confusion, a lot of unknowns. Uh Tom Lee's notably consistently bullish. >> Yeah. And it's also Andy like all of this negativity, but we're not going down. We're just establishing at these higher levels. And I think that is very very similar to the market profile that we saw at the lows. >> Yeah. >> Like Joe Leavia talking about a Fed hike in September. Uh the AI data center backlash and there's the seasonality issue. You know, September's a weak month, but I'm actually now thinking because of all this mounting concern, the market might surprise us to the upsides. And I think maybe September 15th, the Fed meeting is the pivot

point, if the Fed doesn't cut, doesn't hike, which is our base case, I think actually the markets could rally very strong. >> It wouldn't be one of those situations where the credibility is is at issue and that the market actually wants a hike. The market never wants a hike, do they? >> That's right. I I think I agree with your statement earlier this morning that uh he wants to signal um credibility, but he wants the data to kind of play out and if the data we have the jobs report Friday and we have a CPI report in earlier in September, I I think if both are weaker, I think, you know, the market's not going to price a hike.

>> Yeah, I agree. I think I don't think we get a hike September. I'd be surprised. Um, and I think maybe we get the lows of the monthly set in early for the for the coins. The coins sniff this out sooner than stocks start to move up sooner than stocks based on this Bessant buybacks coming. Um, and yeah, we have a nice move. I mean, that's also our base case here. So, good to see that Tom is thinking similarly. Obviously, he's got a lot more intel and info and experience, but um, look, Rob, you called it choppy week.

Choppy week. Got a really strong monthly close yesterday. Kind of had a nice bounce, pullback today, bounce tomorrow, pull back to, you know, choppy week. Choppy week. Consolidation week. Reset some levels, reset some moving averages. But I mean, we heard from Will. I mean, the longer term trade couldn't be more clear. >> Choppy week this week uh into a weekend pump. Let's uh let's see if I Let's see if I can go two for two. All right, guys. That's our daily equity powered by our friends at dinari trade. SpaceX on Hyperlquid and their new S&P 500. Every asset in the S&P is live for US investors now. Visit dinari.com to get started today with trading equities on

chain. Guys, let's get into Donald and his take here about the market. How funny would it be if we went up to 90K in one candle? Think that'd be pretty funny. Donald, this tweet was tweeted well before today's 2 and a half% move down on Bitcoin. But ironically, I think this this move today and the choppiness of the week is setting up Mr. Donald for what you are suggesting here. So, I'm with you, Don. I think we have a nice move ahead and I think lockout rally continues. I think >> I think this is the dip. I mean, look, you know, lockout rally suggests that there are no dips and it locks out any

prospective buyers. Yeah. >> I mean, we called out a couple of levels that we're watching pretty closely. 83K is kind of like that ETF natively. People that are already watching are watching that level. Uh if they break it, I think it's pretty confirmed >> bottom is in and they're going to buy back higher. And then obviously there's people that aren't watching right now and they're not going to watch again until October. Y >> and then I think people are going to want to buy back higher. We'll see what's going on in October, but I I think people are going to end up buying higher >> in that camp as well. So yeah, I think like you know there's a couple of levels in there. Um 90K I mean lockout rally like I said suggests that there's no

dips but this I mean we're seeing it like you know the Iran bombing you know bonanza that we're seeing play out right now is is giving you the dip if you were looking for one. I agree. All right, let's get into FRA here. Um, Fraal Builders gets out of the box with FRA scan. Fraal mainet and test net are supported across the new ether scan AI tools, MCP CLI skills and agent ready API docs, live onchain data for agents with Fraal, partner of the show with FRA. I mean, this is it. I mean, we are building AI tools out of the box with APIs. Now, we're building onchain finance meant for agents. Let's play this video here.

>> [music] [music] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I mean, this is it. I mean, developers are coming to the space and they're going to be >> they're going to be demanding AI tools. I mean, if you're building on any blockchain today, you're looking for AI tools for stable coins with w with FRA. If you stroll up, they're looking for um, you know, payments, agentic commerce, agentic finance. Clearly, FRA wants to be in front of this. Um, and this is the where the space is going.

So, I mean, hard to say anything, you know, bearish or negative about Agentic Finance. It's still early. Yeah, I you know, we have some MCP connectors on our Clawude account now. >> There you go. >> And so, yeah, this is where it's headed. This is kind of like giving your, you know, giving your agent a little like, you know, textbook download of everything in a particular subject, you know, just boop, now you're an expert on this thing, right? And now it can access and go do its own research and have, you know, access to all these tools. Yeah.

>> And then Anthropic uh actually as we were on the show a few minutes ago released uh Fable 5.1 and Mythos 5. >> Don't know. >> I don't know. I know Fable. Yes. Mythos. I don't know if it's available, but I think what I'm seeing is that it is available to the public. >> That's cool. All right, guys. Let's get to the next one here. Once a year, the world's central bankers meet at the Fed's Jackson Hole Symposium to map out monetary policy. I was there. Uh this agenda, this year's agenda, stable coins, tokenized deposits, and programmable money. DeFi has been building that layer for years. We started in 2019.

Yes. >> So, yes, >> Andy, we know on this show, we've been talking about it. stable coins, tokenized deposits, programmable money and innovation in the monetary policy is at the absolute center of the world as it pertains to macroeconomics. >> Worsh is thinking about it. Besson is thinking about it. Stable coins and tokenized assets are quite literally a priority for national economic security both in the US and abroad.

>> God, it fires me up. You were at Jackson Hole. >> I was. >> Did you hear anything? What What was the vibe on the ground with two stones deposits and program one money? >> I got to tell the truth. I didn't do my duty of bringing it up. >> I should have done my duty and brought up hyperlquid and stable coins and all these things, but I didn't because I was trying to blend in. But I did overhear slightly some talks about uh stable coins. We talked about it on the show. We know that this is a new economic and national defense vehicle for the US government. We have been building this layer for years. You are right in that we have kind of built the foundation.

We've achieved the Lindy for what we, you know, kind of needed to in the sense of we got the best lending protocols, the best dexes, we got per dexes, we have stable coins, we have fast, cheap chains, we have great user experiences. We've done what we needed to do and at Jackson Hole, at future Fed conferences, at G20, these will be part of the conversation. >> So, >> and they will continue to be part of the conversation. >> Absolutely. Um, you know, I was listening to a a Bessant interview that he was doing on CNBC earlier today at the G20 and he was he used this term that I think is relevant to what we're talking about here with respect to

stable coins. He called it economic statecraft and I think he was using that term relative to Iran and kind of like isolating them using them as like this economic choke point but he's using economics as a means of you know basically progressing the interest of the state right economic statecraft is the term that he coined and I think stable coins and you know we've extrapolated on this show broadly This applies to tokenized assets at large because of stable coins supporting tokeniz the tokenization buildout. But stable coins are part of the economic statecraft vehicle of the US. And again, I mean, I'll point to

this article from Catrini that explains this in in in great detail. We need someone to buy the short end of the T bills curve. Stable coins will do that. And the reason is because if you have a deposit, like let's say you have $1 in a checking account, the amount of buying power that dollar gives the bank or the depositatory institution where your dollar is deposited, it gives that bank about five to 15 cents of buying power for short-term bonds or bills.

If you have a Genius compliant stable coin and you have $1 issued in a Genius Compliant Stablecoin, the amount of buying power that it gives to that stable coin issuing company, you want to take a guess? If banks, if you put a dollar in a bank and it gives them five to 15 cents of buying power in short-term bills, how much do you think a dollar issued by a stable coin company gives them in buying power for for bills? >> A dollar. Even though it gives the banks five to 15 cents, >> it gives you I would say at least I would say closer to a dollar than not.

>> It does 80 to 95 cents. >> Yeah, because it's one to one backed by a Treasury T bill that is 93 days or less till they're till it's matured. >> Genius requires 100% short Treasury backing. 80 to 95 cents on the dollar goes into short-term bills. And so if you're the national, you know, advisor on all things economics, a aka, you know, Secretary Bessant, are you gonna want a dollar in the banking system where they can only spend 10 cents on the dollar to buy your short-term bills that you need buyers for to finance the treasury?

>> No, you don't want the damn thing that gives you a lot more power. That's why these guys are going to send stable coins to trillions. Shout out to 1 inch power and the future of RWA, tokenized RWA, partner of the show. Let's keep it rolling here. National debt, security, economics, markets pumping. That was your bounce to buy according to our resident quant. New type says Andy was there all stealth mode deep undercover like Miami Vice. I was I was wearing um hiking gear. Totally blending in. All right. So Zama says eventually every accounting department will pay onchain invoices in confidential stable coins because leaking a contract amount to everyone reading an explorer is a strange way to

run a business. We agree. We fully agree. Privacy for payments is one of the obvious the most obvious use cases for privacy onchain. Private payments are like the most obvious of use cases. Nobody wants to negotiate contracts in public. That's why Dow's more or less failed. Nobody wants to uh you know send their contractors, employees and friends payments where others can see. And certainly nobody wants their AI agent running around with open payments seeing all their personal payment history. Private payments powered by Zama, friend of the show, partner of the show are going to come. They're going to accelerate in adoption. We're very

bullish. We love working with this team and this is just going to continue continue to do well. Let's get to the last news item for today. Robin Hood says something new is growing. They also tell you to bring your friends. Interesting. >> Sounds like social trading. >> It's going to be social trading. >> And so do you think we're going to this is like a new protocol? Like this is like something that Robin Hood is building natively. Yes, I think it's going to come as part of their uh like like phone app. Beep beep would be the first of my agents to wrap me out. Yeah, I agree. Um I think it's going to be a FOMO competitor.

>> What do you think this is going to do to pawns or pawns? >> Yeah, it's a good question. >> Man, I for the sake of my pump fund logs, I'd love for them to launch on Robin Hood. Huh? Oh, for the sake of my pump fun longs, I hope Secretary Treasury Bessant comes out and says he's taking a freaking triple of what he thought and they're buying 12 billion. >> He said it's going to be more than what they what they signaled. But >> guys, we know this is coming. Like you guys just just just relax. But Andy, you know, if we're thinking about because and Will, you know, said it like if if that is the

thing that's going to save us and it's not like the, you know, valuations of these companies, why not just why even like why not just, you know, concentrate in these hard, you know, scarce assets? Like why even why even even bother with >> with like pump or hype or anything? It's difficult to say that because I believe that these companies are going to continue to print money and funnel it back into their tokens. But I know >> but yeah, like >> but why even bother with any of this revenue producing businesses?

>> If we if the macro thesis is the driver, why bother with the thing that's less influenced by macro? >> Well, it's the outperformance thesis, right? It's if Bitcoin goes up, is Zcash going to go up more? If Zcash goes up, is Hyperlink going to go up more? It's kind of like the MNAV thing like >> well it's also a splitting of your portfolio. It's diversification in a sense, right? It's like sure you can be all in Bitcoin and Zcash, but what happens if you know Zcash has another mythos bug and you know people worried about quantum with Bitcoin?

Well, that doesn't really affect Hyperlquid, >> right? >> You know, if Hyperlid comes in the US, that is a asymmetric upside opportunity versus Bitcoin that's already in the U, you know. I mean, yeah, you start to also like are you buying is EtherFi the next American Express >> and are you buying it at 50 cents, right? I mean, the chart looks great, by the way. >> Yeah, EtherFi is a rollup portfolio company and I agree with you like there are undervalued companies out there that probably will outperform this the hard money assets, but >> but yeah, you you're right. Why even trouble yourself, you know, with it?

you've got, you know, your portfolio is enough to go from wherever you're at to wherever you're going to be. And is it that simple? Is a full port BTC and Ze is that all that you really need? I mean, honestly, yeah. But I don't know. I mean, >> and then they talk about, you know, like especially early in cycles like >> Yeah. >> diversification is not >> is not the outperformer. It's not the thesis for out, >> right? Diversification is great for pres capital preservation. >> Correct. Right.

>> But not like in the crypto industry. Diversification outside of the industry is how you preserve your crypto gains, right? Like >> Yeah. But that I mean in and out. That's both both of those are true. Like the higher floor argument is it isn't as decorated as you'd like it to be, but it still does hedge right the cap for capital preservation. >> Yep. Yep. All right, guys. I don't have much else for you. I mean, it's been a hell of a show, I think. You know, Rob, that might have been the low.

That might have been the low for the for the day. And might have been the low for the little scare the scare scare everybody off real quick. And then, you know, we'll see. I mean, it's just chop city out there, guys. Stay long. Stay strong. We're holding out. We're going to zoom out. You heard from Will today. The longer term picture couldn't be more clear. W's in the chat. I think we end the week with fireworks higher. I think crypto sniffs out these bond buys before the rest of the market. Raise your targets. My targets for Bitcoin and Hype and Zcash and Lighter and Pump and Near and EtherFi and Aerodrome and Zama and

Fracks and a number of these other companies is significantly higher than where they are now. I will not be selling. The lockout rally is going to continue. We were in on the lows, guys. We went, we I mean, you guys remember two months ago, I was telling you guys one quarter left, maximum two quarters. This came faster than we wanted. Came faster than we thought. We're positioned. We're in Zcash from $4 to $500. We're in Bitcoin from from the lows. We're in ETH. We're in hype from the lows. We're in PER from a lot lower. We're in a lot of these names. Pump from a lot lower. We're in We're in lighter from a lot lower. Like we're in >> lighter looks great, >> guys. Sometimes less is more.

Sometimes less is more. If you're in spot, right? If you're comfy in spot, sometimes less is more. Do less. Do less. Like if it means not showing up to the show because there's nothing to do in your portfolio on a given day or week, my feelings won't be hurt. Sometimes doing less is how you win in this market. >> Sometimes doing less. >> You took your own advice last week. >> Do less. Zoom out. Only time I got myself in trouble is when I started doing more.

I can't lie, guys. I had a pump long on from like the low twos and I kept I kept closing and reopening them. And now I find myself having to chase. I should have just done less. I had a long at the bottom in decent size, but now I have to worry about, you know, entries and exits and do less. >> You know, you know where that thesis fall through though is Rob, you know, is not getting on Robin Hood chain because you're doing less. >> I agree. >> Or, you know, not I take a a tiny amount of my portfolio and I go over there on FOMO and I have some fun.

>> Yeah. >> Tiny amount. >> That's it. Guys, um I have something for you guys. So before I go, let me share my screen and I want to show you guys this because if you guys are watching this, uh, I will definitely select you guys um over randos, but I'm giving away 10 A ghost passes. So, for early access to the new A app on X. So, if you guys follow me on X at Andy with three Y's, you'll see I'm giving away 10 A ghost passes. For early access to the new A app, A app, all you got to do is follow the roll up on X, follow Rob on X, and

download the app. Let me know. I'll announce them tomorrow live on the show. So, I'm going to announce these live tomorrow on the show. If you guys are part of the show, just let me know that you did it in the comments and I will transfer it over to you. You can DM me on X. Just go ahead, join this competition and you guys are here watching live. I will definitely select you guys who are watching live. Y'all are what makes the show possible. Um, I don't know if there's going to be any massive opportunity here, but I do know it's early. The app is really slick and I've got 11 10 11 ghost passes. So, enter this competition, guys. And yeah, that's it. Stay long. Stay strong.

Red, red, or red, orange, or green, we'll be here. I don't know if Robbie has his green light on today. >> He needs the red light. Do we have the green light on today, Rob, or the red light over there? >> We got the green light on today. >> Let's see the green light. Let's Let's pull up Rob. Let's pull up Rob here. Got the green light. There we go. The green light is on. >> Green light. >> Green light is on. >> We're bullish. Y, >> we're bullish. We'll have to start uh making that really really green if uh if we get a green market here. >> That's orange. >> That's orange. That's about what what today is. Today's a bit of an orange day.

>> Purple. >> I mean, Rob, I can't lie. If that was the low of the session and the low of the week, you kind of called that perfectly. We'll see. Can't get too excited. >> I think weekend pump. Let's see if I go two for two. >> All righty, guys. Chop week. Weekend pump is what Rob's saying. You know where to find us day in and day out. We'll be live tomorrow. We got an amazing show for you guys tomorrow. Um we've got we've got E-mod, one of the biggest AI founders coming into the office tomorrow. It's going to be epic. Then we've got Jeff from Coinbase and Corey from Swan Bitcoin.

So >> Corey from Swan Bitcoin. That's a that guy's a character. >> It's going to be a big show. Guys, if you're watching on YouTube, once again, throw us a like, throw us a subscribe, turn notifications on. It's the easiest way to support our channel. We really appreciate you guys. I think that's signing off for today. And we're out, Rob. See you guys tomorrow. Stay bullish, my friends. Stay long and strong. Zoom out day in day out. Let's [music] get it. Heat. Hey, Heat.

[music] >> [music]