Robinhood Chain Is BOOMING! ETH Ready To Pop. Bullish Monthly Close Today?!

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[music] [music] [music] [music] 17 floor. We'll see you around the timeline.

Feels good to be back. [music] >> I think The Rollup is one of the most premier media [music] brands in crypto and Andy and Robbie are great experts at everything they talk about and it's my favorite podcast. >> Adding it to my [music] library as we speak. potentially multi-chain deployments. >> We are at connect day [music] one here. I'm guessing from space. [music] [music] >> [music]

[music] [music] >> Heat. Heat. [music] >> [music] [music] >> JP Morgan, Black Rockck, DTCC, Fidelity, the entire thing was just institutions.

It's just it's next level. This industry is going to the next level. And guys, I I don't know what else to say. >> I'm bullish. >> He said it. He finally said it. >> So bullish. >> It is bullish. I'm bullish. We're bullish. [music] Heat. [music] [music] [music]

Heat. >> [music] [music] >> Heat. Heat. [music] [music] >> [music] [music]

>> Corola is headed to the top. If we're not already at the top, we're going to the top. >> Roll up is my favorite. >> People from all walks of life, all over the world, all over this industry come together for the roll up. [music] [music] [music] >> [music] [music]

>> Zoom out. [music] The institutions aren't coming. They're simply here. Taste the golden age of crypto, guys. Get right. Let's go. [music] >> Welcome to the next. See you on the show. >> Yes, sir. Look who's here. We're back. We're so back, >> guys. Happy Monday. Welcome back to the S organization Tower, the Nest after a week off. You're We are broadcasting live from the Financial Capital World. You're watching the rollup. Today's Monday, August 31st. >> Monthly close day. Rob, >> you brought a friend with you. Who's that?

>> Pangu in the back. So, I just went and saw moose and bison um in the Grand Tetons National Park. I spent a a week out there. It was unreal. Jackson Hole, obviously, you guys saw was awesome. And here we are. And so, you know, the market's booming. I kind of wish I was on the stream last week, but it was a nice break. >> We're having fun. And >> well, you were tweeting, "Are you having fun yet?" I know. >> We're having we're having fun now, Andy. >> I know, dude. I was I just remember moving to New York um you know in February and being like man we got such an amazing setup in the in the Empire State like it's perfect you know

the brand's growing but like I just know we're going to be stuck in this bare market and the bare market's going to go on till like October and then Q4 maybe we're going to get a pump and then maybe next year I'm going to be able to get a bull market in New York City. Dude, we are in the bull market in New York City. The monthly close, the best looking monthly close across the entire crypto asset ecosystem is literally all but six hours away. Yeah, I mean you can I mean the technicals on the monthly look phenomenal. Um the fundamentals are impeccable. I mean, I like I was thinking in the car, I was on the way here to the office and I was thinking, you know, we've talked about stable coins as this priority for economic

security of the United States. Literally to the highest levels of government, the Treasury, the Fed, the White House, right? Stable coins are a matter of national security. And then I was thinking it's like as the the the entire financial world and more and more asset classes become tokenized, they end up on chain, they go up and then stable coins need to get issued to support all of these tokenized asset classes. So in so really it's all of tokenization that is a national economic priority >> 100%. and a priority for regional banks and local banks and large banks because it's all happening fast, right?

>> W for Rollup Digi Nebula. Good to see you, Freedom Guy. Good to see you, Spat. Great to see you guys. We're back. Had an amazing week there. Uh Tetons and Yellowstone. Spent >> uh four or five days in the parks. It was unreal. uh hikes, nature, moose, bison, fronghs, eagles, blue jays, chipmunks geysers canyons waterfalls. >> So, trout, Caesar salads. I mean, it's unreal. >> Speaking of hikes, speaking of hikes, I mean, we got a 50-50 shot here. It seems like >> he's not hiking. He's not hiking.

>> I don't think so either, man. I don't think so. Prediction markets have it 50/50 right? >> Bessing at the G. >> Did you see this? like they they rode on the same plane. War and Bessant rode on the same plane to the G20. They're on the same page as according to Bessant. It seems like we're going to get a big Treasury buyback and no hike on the next FOMC. I think if Fed share Worsh did hike in September, it would be too much forward guidance for his liking considering how hawkish he was on the speech and how he teased two hikes in the beginning of the speech. He would be going against his own policy of no forward guidance. He if he hikes, his whole no forward guidance

thing is cooked because he literally just he telegraphed it to the market. Anyhow, let's get into the show, guys. um today's topics and more. Uh as always guys, we're here at the Nest in the Empire State Building. Shout out to Plume. Uh Plume chart looks amazing. Uh responded to their co-founder on X saying that the looks bottom to me. So happy to be here. H happy to be back and let's get into it. Uh markets weather and we got base growth AGM uh talking tokenization and honestly just where we're at with Bass versus Robin Hood and the expanding of the pie.

>> Oh yeah. >> And then Paxos BD lead. I think we I think we have a quick segment as well for you guys specifically on what's happening on Robin Hood chain today. Uh the truth about Robin Hood chain, what we really think where we're participating on FOMO because I am barely. I saw Robbie tweeted a ticker yesterday so I know he's in um >> Yeah, >> I did I did Robbie the the earliest bird on Robin Hood named Robbie. I I bought a very very small bag. But yeah, fantastic show. Uh Andy, you're up there in Rollup headquarters north in the Empire State Building. I'm in Rollup headquarters south just outside Miami and uh fantastic show. We've been having a lot of fun. Market is firmly in the pre-bold phase. Macro fundamentals, technicals,

everything is converging. Uh let's have some fun. Uh so first uh we're going to tell you guys about our tokenized equity partner. We're in the heat of tokenized equity season. Obviously Robin Hood and Bass are dueling. We're going to tell you about dinari, the the uh tokenized equity field. I mean, it's heating up and uh like I said, it feels like a matter of national security at this point, national economic security to make sure that these things are tokenized correctly. We end up with real shareholder value on chain that leads to tremendous stable coin growth and the US is able to finance itself in the short-term bond market. Dinari is helping do this uh with the tokenized equities buildout and we're still incredibly early but we're already

seeing some of the non-skeumorphic use cases that no one even could have dreamed of uh even a matter of weeks ago as we get into board sits and we're going to talk a little bit more about that in a little bit. Uh but first Andy, how's the weather up there in New York? [screaming] >> It's beautiful. It's 80°. Uh glad to be back. It's a quite a mind shift from the um you know from the national parks but it's going to be back out there in the national parks. >> It was it was cooler. It was nice. It was uh 65 55ish. That was the range. So it was it was lovely. All right guys, let me tell you about FRA. Uh building infrastructure for the future of digital money. Open, stable, borderless. Visit fra.com to learn more about their new

FRANET product and more. uh start using the future of money today afterx.com. All right, guys. Markets Rob, what are you seeing out there? I mean, I got equities kind of a little bit of a sideways day, mostly chop. Um obviously, we have new type in the chat saying 10-year yields is now higher than what it was when the US said they were going to intervene. >> Oh, yeah. >> That means the bonds don't trust Bessant. >> Oh, yeah. >> They're going to hike. Bond markets will always tell you where rates are going. No sign for rate cuts until we see yields come down on their own. Plus, we're back to striking Iran. Oil up, which means inflation will be up. Wars is going to raise rates, guys. So, that's the kind of the macro backlog.

>> Before I hear your take, I just want to give we have a lot of negative headlines right now. >> We have a lot of negative headlines and Bitcoin's at $78,000. >> Yeah. >> Just chilling. If we get through this week and without any carnage, we're going to rip. I think we're we're going to rip hard. Yep. I tend to agree. Um I think that we're going to get a chop week this week. Uh just kind of sideways, but consolidation and hold above the levels that we've established over the last couple of weeks of big moves. So the fact that we're not immediately retracing all of those gains, I think it's incredibly high, >> hypash, >> very close as well. Zcash pushing 850.

Um, I mean, we've talked about the portfolio at length, but obviously, you know, the hard money scarce assets, Bitcoin, Zcash, and gold on one side, uh, ETH a little bit as well, and then, uh, the revenue meta on the other side, pump fun, lighter, hyperlid, fake world assets, aerodrome, uh, several others as well. Um, and more and more are getting added to the revenue meta. But Andy, I'll tell you, I mean, I I do think that we're going to get a chop this week. Then I think you know new type is right but I actually think B uh Bessant is going to come in and and walk the walk and back up what he's saying. I think he's going to keep buying more bonds.

>> I think I think Bess is going to come in on September 9th and do a gargantuan Treasury buyback of the long end of the curve and just artificially bring the yields down tremendously. Um I think he just has the capital. He went on CNBC last week and he said, "I have asymmetric information. Why would you?" >> Yes. I think he said that verbatim, but I mean, pretty much effectively, he's saying like, "Why would you trust anyone else? You don't know the information that I have. I have asymmetric information. I'm telling you, I'm signaling to you the market what I'm going to do. I tend to trust him." And then obviously him and Worsh seem to be on the same page traveling in the same jet.

>> Yeah. I mean, come on. That's what I was saying like there is some there's some animosity between the lower level Fed members right >> and the Treasury from what I understood at Jackson Hole like they're kind of confused as to what Bess's doing >> but Warish and Besson are buddies. Did you see that Bessant called out Drunken Miller and said Ducken Miller is probably a little bit um upset when he wrote that that oped because he lost money that day. The op-ed to begin with was entirely AI generated.

>> Yeah, 100%. >> And yeah, I did see that Bessant spoke to Drunken Miller since the OpEd. I feel I I do think like people are starting to sort of, you know, fall a little bit disillusioned with the Fed Wars combo. But I I I think there's some 40 chess going on here, man. I really do. And like you said, you know, we're back to striking Iran. Look, man, I I feel like >> irrelevant to me. Well, there well the only relevance is that you know it's causing oil to go up which could come through in the inflation data and could make war's job of cutting a little bit or or holding steady a little bit more difficult. But again, you know, if I'm thinking about what what is the asymmetric information that Besson could be talking about, I feel like he's got

some insight into the inflation data and he might be tapping Trump on the shoulder and being like, "Hey, we could get inflation data under expectations. You know, you can actually go and bomb Iran a little bit because we've got some wiggle room here and so he's okay with pumping oil's prices up a little bit because he's got some room in the inflation. Yeah, I do. I mean, I think every time that inflation is lower, he's got headroom to go and bomb Iran because, you know, he's going to pump oil up, but he's got that wiggle room. But if inflation if if inflation data is up, then he can't bomb Iran. He needs to play nice and strike a deal because he needs to bring oil lower.

>> I mean, yeah, oil's up 3% today or so, 2 3%. um the you know the the 2 years are over 4.3% 10 years over 4.7% and the 30 years over 5.2%. So the yields are high. Uh oil is certainly reinflating the macro risk and higher yields are definitely keeping stock investors defensive but I think fiat to basement investors hard asset owners believers are doing well. So as as always guys our digital assets market is powered by our friends at Zama. Uh visit zama.org or to learn more about their confidential computing stack and more. Guys, let's get into the news into the biggest meta right now, which is the Robin Hood chain meme RWA chain stack.

Before we do, let me tell you about Near, your home for building, discovering, and using apps on chain. Trade per spot, transfers, and more all in one account on near.com. It's one of my favorite favorite places to trade right now and to hold assets like Zcash, Pump, Lighter, Near, and more. Visit visitnear.com to learn more. >> Yeah, I got some Zcash there and Near intense as well, building out the confidentiality thesis. Yeah. >> Uh on the other hand of the hard money confidential thesis, we've got RW Play.

Uh the next meta. Uh this complements the revenue meta nicely, Andy, because a lot of the assets that are in play in these exchanges are generating a lot of revenue for the picks and shovels, the infrastructure, the exchanges that are supporting this buildout. And so, um, the thesis here is that tokenized equities are the new primitive. Um, dinar is our tokenized equities partner. We're seeing a big buildout on the Coinbase side. They started with four stocks. So obviously not the breadth of assets that you know Robin Hood has been able to achieve but significant deep deep liquidity and volume in those four stocks on Coinbase. And then obviously you know all the attention is on Robin

Hood. They've got the board sit meme. Uh we'll get into that in a little bit. They've got a broad spectrum of assets that you can get on Robin Hood. And then there's this insane, you know, meta that is taking place where we're pairing meme coins with tokenized equities. And then as the liquidity flows into the meme coins, it's buying up the other side of that liquidity pool, which is the tokenized equity. And we saw tokenized equity prices and traditional equity prices significantly dislocated. There is a couple instances of this. One is the boner hymns the like duality which it which is hilarious but also explain to

us like like could you just start at the very bare bones of like what's happening here like what is this meme stock pairing why is this happening how is this the new met can we just start with like the basics here >> so my understanding of this is that um as uh there's liquidity and and volume on Robin Hood uh you know it's flowed into a variety of different things right you've got kind of the duality the two wolves you've got RWA and you've got memecoins and and Vlad and the rest of the Robin Hood team have said like look we're willing to play this game we are willing to support both halves of this market the RWAS and the memecoins um the RWAS being the tokenized equity side of this

uh creates a very interesting dynamic once you have the memecoins the RWA and the infrastructure underneath to connect the two given that these are previously two very dislocated ecosystems. We've never really seen a connection between these two economies until they ended up on chain because everything's tokenized. You guys know how liquidity pools work, right? Think of a typical liquidity pool V2 style. You end up with uh both coins in the pool and you're trading back and forth and there's an automated market maker that is going back and forth between these two coins. If you buy one of them, it's going to balance out and buy the other. As one side of the pool appreciates, it will end up rebalancing

and buying the other side of the pool. And so, if you think about some of these memecoin runners, Andy, some of these memecoin runners have gone on incredible runs. Um, I saw there's sign a significant amount of these meme coins in the top 500. The the fun part, the the unique part of Robin Hood meta here is that they're paired to tokenized equities. And so we've got two examples here. There's the boner hymns combo, which is hilarious. The one that I'll talk about uh is this uh movie theater memecoin and the AMC movie theater business. AMC was part of the whole GameStop 2021 uh debacle that happened on Robin Hood.

And so what happened over the weekend is that we had a flying memecoin in this movie theater coin on Robin Hood. It was paired to the AMC tokenized equity company and as the movie theater memecoin ran, it bought the AMC tokenized equity, causing the price of AMC to go 39 times higher onchain on the tokenized equity price than its off-chain traditional equity counterpart. Significant price dislocation between the onchain tokenized equity and the off-chain traditional equity. Now, there was a great account and I think we have it in our tweets that lined up here basically

exposing like guys this is this is not sustainable. Like there is a market maker that is uh allow listed and and credentialed and allowed to mint the tokenized equity on chain because they're a typical broker dealer in the back. And that's how these tokenized equities work. You have a dealer that has the actual equity and then they mint a tokenized representation of that onchain. And once these things once market hours arrives and you can then mint more of these, they're going to mint them and sell them immediately and they're going to market make this thing back to par and equilibrium with its off-chain counterpart. And so, >> you know, there's a huge business, I'd imagine, of these market makers that are

now market making this extremely illquid tokenized equity back to equilibrium once market hours turns on. But that's what we're seeing is and and and so it's the meme coins that it's the meme coins that are running on Robin Hood season paired to the tokenized equities causing the tokenized equity to run. Once the memecoin rebalances in the liquidity pool, you get this significant price dislocation between the traditional equity offchain and the tokenized equity onchain and then those things get arbitrageed back to equilibrium. There's this other board sit thing which is totally hilarious. So, okay. So, what Rob's talking about here is this AI

token. So, it's artificial enu. I bought it yesterday on FOMO. Um, let's see what it's at. Um, and and and so Artificial Enu is the is the Dogecoin is the dog with hat of this meta. It is the creator. It is the original. Um, it is trading right now at $135 million market cap. I top blasted at like 90 mil and top blasted more this morning at like 130 mil just to be a part of this >> blaster >> Mr. Duke a top blaster and so basically it's AI artificial enu token paired to Nvidia and the whole meme here if you look on FOMO you can see people's thesises and so you guys will probably be up you you guys will probably be able

to see this but you can see the holders the the biggest holders here are up millions of dollars on this token and all of their thesises say boards they all just say boards probably can't see it too well >> now it's blurry >> but they all say boards it. And so the idea here is that through this mechanism of holding artificial ENU, you earn Nvidia tokens. Um, and you become a the like the meme like the reflexive meme mission is to become a board room or a board seat holder of Nvidia. And then when you look at a couple others, there is one called redacted that is giving

holders Zcash. There is one called Golden Goose that is giving holders gold, tokenized gold in their wallet. And so you got kind of two separate things happening. One is like you've got this AI Nvidia pairing, this meme to stock pairing. And then the other one you have these meme coins that are paying holders from the taxes from the transactions in they're paying them RWA. So paying them gold, they're paying them Zcash. are paying them Nvidia stock. And so for the first time ever, as you say, Rob, you've got this like total convergence of ideas where it's like you've got the stock traders and owners participating in memes. And so,

um, a guy that I've been following really closely on FOMO, Eric Connor, um, Eonar, he is, um, he's up a million dollars on FOMO in the last like, um, month. Like he deposited 10 grand. I don't know how much he more he kept depositing. I mean, his portfolio is at 2 mil. He's up 1.2 in 24 hours. Um, and I almost bought Bonercoin. I know that sounds ridiculous to say. Um, but I saw him buying it at I mean, it must have been 2 mil. I saw it yesterday at like 2 or 3 mil and I was like, damn, I should just buy this. It's at 35 mil today.

>> Damn. >> 10x 10 12x. [clears throat] He's got he's got one he invested 25 grand and he's sitting on um 1.2 2 mil. >> And this one is paired with Lily, the Lily, like the HIMS, like the bon pills, >> or like the erectile dysfunction, these types of pills. I know it's really silly guys. >> And so this is the meta. This is what is happening. I mean, dude, Eric is up literally like I mean, this is just insane. Like, these are just these are bonkers. So obviously this is kind of the most ridiculous, most hilarious version of the meta, but you can kind of look through some of this like silly

funny early adopter stuff into what this is inevitably going to be as it grows, which is institutional yield farming on quality assets like equities at scale. Like you can imagine a scenario where it doesn't have to be a memecoin. You could pair Nvidia with the S&P in the liquidity pool and then as the S&P goes up it just pays you in more Nvidia shares and then you're just creating this yield generating asset >> whereas previously these other you know equity holders they didn't have this kind of yield like institutional people love yield and now they're going to get a source of yield on their assets at scale. new type trader is like, "Oh my

god, this is insane." And so, >> yeah. Oh my god, it's right. >> Yeah. And so, >> Leo, if you could just scroll down a little bit here. So, I've been working in crypto for 10 years. The most expensive lesson the last decade taught me is that every meta is obvious in hindsight. We call it RW play. We're coining the term deliberately and the rest of the letter is my argument that it fits the pattern of every meta that came before it. So, let's get through this. It's pretty long article here. Imagine if Miad finds about this. You compare S&P 500 with SX S&P 6900. So, keep scrolling down. So, basically, you know, we had all these different metas, ICOs, we had um NFTTS, DeFi, memes. Now, we're into this kind of meme RWA. And so, you can keep going down. It kind of

talks about the story of yield farming, about ICOs, about NFTTS, about memes. And now we have this thing as a primitive. So, it's a thing to hold. Like I'm I bought AI. I'm late, you know. I'm late. I should have bought I should have bought um Boner. I know it sounds so stupid. I should have bought Boner when I saw Eric's. Eric's is amazing following on on FOMO. He's been crushing. Um and so here's the premier this time. Stocks came on chain. Tokenized equities went from about 2 million in mid2025 to 1.7 billion in 2026. They traded 15 billion the first quarter of the year. tokenized real world assets sit at about 25 billion and the standard institutional projection runs to 16 trillion by 2030.

And so basically this guy is is uh promoting his own fork netnet which is this fork and he's basically talking about this idea that we're talking about what is this meme five season and so yes Digi says Net is leading the RW RW play um meta and and we agree. Um, I don't want to throw cold water on the whole board sit thing, but this is like basically impossible. I think there's still a huge move that can be done here. But I uh I was actually I was doing some research last night and I was

talking to Grock and I said, "Hey, I heard there's a theory that as these memes paired with equities gain more value, they acquire more tokenized equity in the company until they hold enough of the cap table to earn a board seat or even attempt a hostile takeover of the company. How feasible is this and what are the next steps that would have to happen for it to play out?" It basically said with AI enu um I mean given that it's you know trying to take on Nvidia it is extraordinarily uh valuable and like it would it would take so much capital in order to do that. But then I said, "All right, rerun this analysis with a smaller market cap." Equity, for example, I've seen boner paired with HIMS, right? The legal and it says the legal blocker is

identical. >> Yeah. Let's flip to the next screen. Uh so it says the legal blocker is identical to the Nvidia case. Um the wrapper around the tokenized equity would have to become a voting and beneficial ownership instrument. And this I think is the most important faction of this because it we are finally now starting to see the implications of these different types of tokenization. Andy, I'm sure you remember we've had conversations with everyone in the tokenization space from securitiz doing the native issuance model all the way down to you know some of these guys that are doing SPV rappers. Now Robin Hood is closer to the SPV rapper. They're not SPVS. They're actually a broker dealer, but they don't

give you any kind of beneficial ownership, stakeholder rights, voting interest in the company. And so acquiring tokenized equities from Robin Hood chain are not going to give you the power of being a board member. However, >> if there's a native issuance of a tokenized equity, maybe something like a securitized those >> tokenized equities, if you acquire enough of those, those are real shares. Those would actually give you a chance at being a board seat. Uh uh you know, having a board seat >> right >> now. There's other steps. Um you know, these guys have Delaware lawuits and all all kinds of things.

>> It's a meme. It's a branding and narrative device that's it's a marketing term. Eventually, maybe we get into a place where it's natively issued and it's, you know, really actually feasible, but at this point it's basically a meme. >> Well, the biggest marketing is these P&Ls. >> I mean, this is just I mean, this is just nonsense. This is unreal. And um I mean, look, you can see my buys. Clearly, I'm a top blaster, >> so I was a little late. I was a little late to the trade, but I don't really care. Zoom out, boys. Board sit. Like, I don't even care. Like, it's 400 bucks.

Let's go. >> So, I was on I was on Pones last night and I was looking at just kind of scrolling and uh Pones is up a gargantuan amount, but I I saw like the ticker Robbie. I mean, it was at like three million and bought it. Now it's at four and a half, >> dude. >> Maybe it's back down a little bit. I bought >> this guy's dude. So, Eric Eric has just gone on an absolute tear with Boner. I mean, look at his buys. I mean, dude, I was sitting there in the car yesterday after he talked to me about it and it was literally August 30th at like around this time. It was probably at like 10 mil, but I saw it even earlier, but I was in the parks and stuff and I mean, look at this. I mean, he is just up a

ridiculous amount on this. I mean, look at his portfolio. look at his AI bias. >> So obviously it's difficult to know how sustainable and how long this is going to last. But the point is that there is an institutional alternative to this and you can look at like hey if you don't want to play you know movie theatercoin or ai enu or boner you can own the platform like pones is on a generational run too. >> Yeah dude it is >> like unis swap is >> lying bro ton of this swap. >> Oh how do we miss this? Yeah, and pones is basically the pump fund of Robin Hood chain. You don't need to gamble on this.

There's all of the infrastructure that is powering this meta is now becoming I mean just rerated for the TAM of this meta and it's huge. And I think >> I think did you see this rub? >> What's this? >> Pone doing millions of dollars a day in fees. >> Yeah, I I heard they're not passing a lot of that back. >> No, very little. But look, like almost none. It looks like >> they're so they're doing a ton >> a million dollars almost a mill already today. >> Yeah, I saw they flipped maybe it was Pump Fun or Hyperlid.

>> Um, >> unreal. >> But this is the reason Pump Fun is down is because they're realizing the moat here isn't I mean look I think if Pump Fun launched on Robin Hood it would be a totally different ball game. But for now >> taking some of the lunch. This chart is like one pump fun tweet away from like I mean I saw >> from going down here, you know. >> Yeah. Oh, totally >> from like a 70% nuke. But that's what makes it so great as at like a 10 $50 million market cap last week. Boom. >> Yep.

>> And I mean there's people that are up a lot on this. I mean >> Oh yeah. Oh yeah. >> Team Holdings here. But I mean look look at I mean uni I mean look at this guy. This is a Block Works um researcher. I mean, dude, he is just I mean, >> oh my goodness. He bought so early and he just sold all the way up, >> dude. >> What is this? This is on FOMO. >> Yes. He invested 27K and he's just Wow. I mean, bro, what? >> Yeah. >> What are like, how can we look at this um and be like, we're not in a bull market?

Like, dude, this is making me turn my leverage slider up and deposit more into FOMO. >> Like, if I'm doing that, then you got to think the people on TikTok seeing this are going for it. >> Insane, dude. Absolutely insane. I mean, these are the on generational run. I mean, did you guys have you guys seen Uni's wallet, >> bro? >> What is this? >> Uni PC's first 10 mil wallet on FOMO. >> Oh my goodness. He's rocking four and a half in ponds.

>> Oh my goodness. >> He bought it he bought it like a month ago. >> Wow. >> Can't believe I missed that. >> This is It's wild, man. It's wild. These are the kinds of things I think that happen in bull markets. I mean, you get this financial experimentation. You get these new primitives. Like, >> it's impossible to predict. >> You remember when um G Money came on the show and this was at 500 mil or 500 500K? Is this cipher thing? >> This quotron. He was like, "Yeah, it's at 500K. I don't want to show it on your show."

>> What is it at now? >> 10 mil, 11 mil, >> 20x, and it's just getting started. It's just starting to get traction now. >> He was on like two weeks ago. >> I know. I don't know if he's in I don't know if he's Is this him? >> Guys, guys, pay attention. I You know, we've been talking. Look. >> Yeah, that's his only position. Look, he bought like at 500K with us. >> Let's go. >> Insane. >> Let's go, guys. I mean, tune in to the rollup and just I mean, what else do you need to know? Cuz like, we're going to tell you and educate you and bring on people that are educated on these subjects to talk to you about how these primitives work, right? The deep levels, deep depths of tokenization, why this

meta makes sense, how these primitives work. But then also like they're going to they're going to tell you some picks. They're going to tell you some picks. And Andy, I mean, how many times have we been like, "Yo, all we got to do is talk to these people and buy the things that they talk about on the show." >> Yep. Yep. >> And we're not telling you what to buy. We're just talking to you guys about what we buy and what other people are doing. >> Yep. Um, so on a note, on this note, while we have our our first guest coming up, we've got uh uh Antonio Garcia Martinez, AGM, also known as AGM. uh first time on the show but been a longtime fan and supporter of him. His his company Spindle got bought out by Coinbase. They're onchain advertising

company. And I mean look at these look at this size on this Nvidia market. I mean it's only 1.5 mil >> but I mean look at the volumes on this. This is just this is >> guys do you see this? >> Yeah. Yeah. Like it is a fullon institutional stock gigabull. >> Yeah. Now Andy, while you were in the Tetons, uh we had Alex Cutler on the show and we were chatting with him about exactly this. The thing that caught my eye was that for off-market liquidity, meaning like during the weekends,

Aerodrome is becoming the most liquid place to trade equities. Like I I think Robin Hood right now is winning the breath argument. They've got, you know, significantly, you know, more assets available, but it's less liquid. Aerrum has been able to just capitalize on liquidity around these and concentrate liquidity around like four of these tokenized equities, build significant deep liquidity in those assets. And you know, there's a bunch of places to trade these things after hours. But Aerodrome now with their tokenized equity inventory is becoming one of the leaders in price discovery. And I think once you get price discovery happening in a venue, you end up with this self-fulfilling prophecy because

liquidity begins liquidity and liquidity will flow to where price discovery occurs. And right now, I mean, you see that the the spot volume here in the for these stocks. I mean, it's here. I mean, there's only five stocks, but these are like the biggest five right? >> Well, we Yes, it is. And we also heard from Alex that there will be more very soon. Very soon. >> Yeah. So I mean this is just the this is just the tip of the spear here. >> Yeah. And so obviously unis swap is doing you know very well in terms of uni token performance on the heels of uh Robin Hood tokenized equity buildout. I believe aerodrome is in the one of the best positions other than you know what could be like uh you know if there's a launchpad on base other infrastructure

that is going to support a similar meta buildout around base coinbase tokenized equities but obviously aerodrome is in a tremendous position to capitalize on the influx of tokenized equities. >> Yeah, gotta love it. Gotta love it. Guys, we've got uh Antonio in the back. I think he's ready to go. Um there's a lot a lot to talk about here uh with base with the rise of social trading with tokenized equities um and just kind of the biggest I mean we've taken these chains and these platforms from being a home for crypto assets to really being a home for all tradable equities commodities assets at large. So I mean looking forward to this. Obviously, we

spend a bit of time on Robin Hood chain. Um, but there is a lot happening on base and I think people are kind of like, you know, somehow, and maybe it's a good place to start, somehow Bass has found itself in the underdog seat. >> Yeah. >> Again, which is almost just like weird. >> And if you if you look at the trading volume between Robin Hood and Bass, Bass is still like order multiple orders of magnitude larger by volume on Robin Hood. And Andy, I don't know if you felt this way, but maybe like two weeks after Robin Hood launched, remember they had like the huge Cash Cat thing that went live at first and then there was a couple other meme coins that were flying and then volume started to taper off a little bit.

>> Yep. >> And it felt like I don't know what like it was almost like that was it. It was almost like, oh, like, you know, if you weren't on Robin Hood before they launched and you didn't buy Cash Cat, you know, in the first week that Robin Hood was live, it was almost like you were too late. But man, with this new primitive, it fees extremely early again. And so, I think if we're looking in the grand scheme of things, I mean, Robin Hood chain has been alive for a month. Base is just now coming online with these tokenized equities. Yeah, >> I mean it it feels like it feels very silly for thinking that maybe we had you know this this new meta this primitive came and went and now that you know it's starting to get built now we're seeing these use cases it feels extremely early

again. >> Yeah, I mean it does and again you know somehow BS has found itself in the underdog seat which is baffling to us but we're going to hear what Antonio has to say about it. Talk about tokenized equities, the rise of social trading and more. Let's bring them up and let's get the show on the road and get kicked off. Antonio, welcome to the show. Good to have you. I like to call you AGM. I think that's what I've heard uh from the from the ruffles of the feathers. So, good to see you, man. >> Hey, good to see you. Thanks for having me on. >> Of course, man. >> Absolutely. Thanks for being here.

>> We just did a kind of a a segment there on what's happening on Robin Hood, what's happening on base, and just the rise of these kind of meme stock pairs and tokenized equities on chain. And I mean, there's just a lot to go over, but it's your first time on the show, Antonio. And I know that you previously sold your onchain ads company, Spindle, uh, to Coinbase, which I'm a big fan of. And so, yeah, man, would just love to hear about, you know, what you're up to at base now. I know you're the director of growth and just kind of catch us up as to what you've been up to.

>> Yeah. So, like you said, I came through an acquisition uh through an onchain ads and attribution company. And what that means is we would take like off-chain data like where did your user come from and then what did they do on chain and merge them together in a very kind of old school growth marketing sort of way. You can imagine things like Amplitude or other companies that do the same in the offchain world. Uh since then the team and my role has morphed a little bit into more of a growth role. So what that means is you know whatever you're imagining like I show an ad on base or something else right and then you come in and you trade a thing and we tie it all together. Imagine we did that but more broadly, right? Like literally every integration point like who's trading our tokenized stocks now, for

example, like we can actually see by channel who's coming in, what's the volume that they drive and that tying that into an incentive flywheel that drives the growth of of base chain and its assets and its markets. So Spindle's kind of morphed into a more general growth sort of motion at at base. >> Very cool. Um, you know, we we've spoken to a number of guys at bass on this show. Jesse's been on, you know, we were talking to him about kind of the dynamic between him and Kobe and now, you know, obviously growth, uh, you know, at base here. It feels like, you know, you guys are going all in on trading. Um, and specifically the tokenized equity trading is kind of taking the world by storm right now. So much attention is on these tokenized equities. Uh the way

that we were talking about it before you joined was kind of like uh you know Robin Hood has a very broad set of assets but Coinbase and Aerodrome have been able to uh drive significantly deep liquidity into a very concentrated amount of assets. So it feels like you guys are winning on the depth conversation. Maybe they're ahead in the breadth conversation, but I'm just curious how you're seeing the tokenized equity buildout and how important that is to growth on base. Yeah, I mean I think the question behind your question is like how are base tokenized equities than other tokenized equities maybe? Um, and I think the difference there is that in the case of Coinbase's product, um, it's as close as you can get to actually owning a share.

Like if I went to Schwab and bought a share of Google or whatever, I'm doing effectively the same when it comes to the base version of it. It's actually not custody by Coinbase. Not that it's going to happen if if but if Coinbase went bust tomorrow, you'd still own the shares, right? Well, it it varies a little bit with the competing products. Some are very much basically like a debt I owe you saying like, look, trust me, bro, I owe you a share and I claim to have it. Some are a little bit more along the plane of act of actual ownership. But you, you know, I think you were hinting at earlier like, well, why is either base behind or launched after some of these products is I think Coinbase is always fixated on shipping the right product and obviously in a very legal above board way. And you

know, it's still early. There's trillions of dollars in the US equity markets. like the initial curves like none of these curves really matter in the very early days. It's actually building the right product that sets us up for success for years from now. And so that's that's kind of why we kind of focus so much on on shipping the product that we did. >> Okay. And so Antonio, this is a pretty pretty specific question, but I'm just curious because you're talking about kind of the differences in these models. We had just got done talking about like one of the components of this meta which is this board sit thing. I don't know if you've seen this, but like they're trying to uh pair meme coins with tokenized equities and then the liquidity pool buys enough of the equity that it is eligible for a board seat.

But to your point, on some of these other platforms, they're not actually shares. They're like the IOU version. And so they're not >> voting rights. They're not uh like eligible shares to participate in the governance process of the company. But what I hear you saying is that, you know, on Coinbase, these tokenized equities are legitimate shares. They do have voting and governance rights. And so theoretically, if you were to execute this meta on Coinbase and acquire enough of these tokenized equities, you could in theory be eligible for a board sit. >> Sorry, I [laughter] just have to laugh because >> Yeah, I know. It's so weird. I mean, welcome to the onchain frontier, ladies and gentlemen. Um Oh, yeah. We're we're

pairing like actual real companies in the world with the most ridiculous meme cocoins in the world and and channeling liquidity between them. I mean, yeah, but that's the thing, right? Like with with the base tokenized equities, you you own the share, [laughter] right? It's like as if you have voting rights, you get dividends, which you might ask like how does that work? There's this like multiplier thing, right? So if there's like a 2% dividend, I used to own a share. Now I own 1.02 shares and when I go to sell it, I get the 02 shares because you have fractional shares, which is part of what onchain does. So again, it's it's like it's like buying a share through like Schwab or E Trade or whatever. And so, you know, I hadn't really thought about the full repercussions of like Carl Icon showing up on chain with like [laughter] a cold

wallet and buying, you know, a truckload of shares. But in theory, I guess he could. Sure. Yeah. >> You remember that that Bill Aman and Carl Ian uh CNBC interview? That's what we're going to see between like a memecoin guru and like some buttoned up CEO of a public company. Absolutely incredible things. But I can also see where this goes in a more legitimate way, which is like you can actually pair, you know, like an index with another equity or like pair Nvidia with Microsoft and create Yeah. collateralize. You can create liquidity positions. You can end up getting yieldgenerating equities, which I feel like is going to make like institutional investors go bananas. Yield generating equities feels like it's never been done

before until onchain made it possible. >> Yeah. So, let's unpack that. Yeah. One of the cool things about DeFi, everyone talks about um you know composability, right? And like the metaphor is like Lego blocks. And so what it means for those who aren't maybe aren't familiar with this, you I can buy a share. I own an asset, right? And then I can borrow against that asset by putting it into some sort of pool. I can have it be so glider launched these ATP things uh managed by Bitwise. [clears throat] And I I think the Mag 7 ATP is probably the biggest driver of base token volume right the second because they launched kind of early. And and the thought there is like, oh, I want to buy the Mag 7, right? Or I want to buy, you know, I don't know. some really unique investment thesis, you know, Glider

could kind of cook that up. You buy it again, you're you're owning like the real shares, right? And so, um, or or like in the case of a, you know, in the case, I don't want to tease too much, but if you had, you know, a custod a self-custodial wallet, you could borrow against, you know, those shares to buy some other things, you could lend them out and make a return on it, which, by the way, is something typically your conventional broker doesn't give you. I don't know if you realize, but like your average stock broker actually lends out your shares. They eat that upside. You don't see it. You're going to see it on chain. And so yeah, it just gets a lot more interesting, right, when you have stocks that aren't in invest embedded in this like thicket of legacy sort of infrastructure and instead is like free

to trade and free to own onchain. >> Yeah. And I think that you know the kind of broader concept and idea that's happening here is previously onchain at least for me and I think for a lot of other kind of onchain natives it was like a very aggressive part of your portfolio. you know, you have your real estate, you've got your gold, you've got your, you know, maybe you've got your, you know, BTC or ETH in a ledger, but your onchain portfolio is like your full-on, you know, gas it portfolio trying to really, you know, expand your longtail on the risk spectrum. But now, when you think about it, onchain is starting to become the portfolio, like the home to all of your assets, right?

You can hold tokenized commodities, equities, and then obviously crypto assets. And so I think Antonio, what what I'm curious about is the demographic shift here and how you think about what introducing stocks onchain does to a like the average kind of onchain dgen who wants to maybe take some of their winnings and put them into more longer term things or some, you know, variation of that, but really b like who is that next marginal user? FOMO has, you know, 100,000 daily users. They're absolutely ripping. Um, you know, Pump Fund has been ripping, you know, obviously Bass, Robin Hood ripping, all of this is coming from some sort of new user base. Talk to us about kind of like the demographic shifts you

can, you know, expect from this introduction of higher quality assets on chain and then also perhaps some of the user behavior shifts. >> Well, as you can probably tell, I'm not quite part of the Zoomer demographic, Robin, Andy. So, I don't know that I want to speak for that demographic. I'm sadly aged out of it. But what I do think is interesting and what like um like a year ago Brian declared you know we're going to be the everything trading app and you can open like the Coinbased retail app and you can you know you can do prediction markets you can you know engage in a high you know invest in a high yield fund that returns 7% on USDC you can trade stocks either onchain or offchain right it's all you're going to be able to trade all the things in one coherent picture in which you see maybe

slightly more speculative bets on certain memecoins and then you see like a very conventional bet on you know Google say it's it's all going to be tradable it's all going to be composable it's all going to be borrowable and it's all going to be visible inside one app eventually right and so yeah I think that changes the the traditional you know crypto conversation around this or that memecoin nothing against memecoins but you can at least introduce something that's a little bit more of a more conventional investment into the picture like going along Nvidia and the other thing I'd mention I mean maybe we're going to touch on this in your questions what what I think is interesting by putting it on chain right is that you dem you you democratize the markets what I think a lot of Americans don't realize is that like American capital markets

are hard to access from the rest of the world. And so, like I I cite the the the proverbial example. I actually had this conversation, by the way, with an Argentinian tax taxi driver at Devcon last year, and it's like, "Sh, show me your crypto." And he had like a few thousand dollars in like some stable coin. I'm like, "What do you do with it?" And he's like, "Well, nothing. I can't do anything with it. I have to offramp to pay for things, but I just keep it because that's how I hold dollars." Well, that guy can go and buy again a share of Google or whatever and participate in like the biggest wealth creation machine in human history, which is the US equity market, right? So I think it's just it's an interesting democratization step that like basically anybody who can get on chain which is

almost anybody at this point can participate in all these markets and have as much access to again lend and borrow against their assets in a way that like even US retail investors don't necessarily have via the conventional broker. >> Antonio where are you seeing the most growth right now on base and and where are you spending the most attention? Is it, you know, with the cryptonative guys that are actually just finding new and innovative complex ways in which they can, you know, do more things? Is it kind of like the regional demographics or is it the zoomers? Like where are you seeing the most growth and and where do you where do you plan on spending the most attention to fuel even more?

>> I mean, I think there's three sort of top level exciting things happening on base. One is tokenized equities that we've been talking about this entire show, obviously. Um the other I think like financing and lend and borrow is really really interesting right so like Coinbase retail like the regular app launched like a high yield vault where you can make 7% which is like way more than than any bank [laughter] you're going to get an account at right and you know competitors have launched similar vaults and that's really interesting right bringing credit like lend borrow onchain I think is super important and interesting for a bunch of reasons um the other one is obviously payments right stable coin growth has continued to pace like there's no question that stable coins have like global PMF.

There's trillions of dollars of payments happening um every year on chain. Um and and so seeing that happen, I I think the X42 bet for those who aren't familiar, it's like this payment protocol where like an agent or anybody can actually pay microp payments for like online content. Cloudflare's adopted it. Um I think it's going to be a little bit of a slow burn. We haven't seen a commerce sort of take off yet, but in the fullness of time, we're going to have, you know, billions and billions of agents buying and stuff and collecting data. And I think being the payment rails for that of you know USDC on base I think is super exciting. That's a little bit more of a long-term venture bet. But those three things like tokenized equities, earn borrow and payments and aentic payments I think are the most exciting things on base.

>> Yeah. and AGM I can't help but ask because you guys shifted kind of away from the you know more social features if you will of BAP towards trading but then you know I love thread guy and I love his takes on traders are the next celebrities and you know you know the traders are going to be as important as Kevin Durant and you know you're going to be a trader and you're you're going to go to the mall and you're going to have you know people are going to ask you for an autograph right obviously FOMO's cracked this right FOMO's cracked this social trading feature base is obviously a prominent chain. There is the thought build build the liquidity, build the best pairs, build the best experience and then let other kind of consumer frontends dominate the social

trading aspect of the experience like is that kind of is there almost like an outsourcing of that distribution to these social trading platforms that are winning? How do you think about this kind of traders are the next celebrities and social trading is going to on board you know the next wave as you see these wild you know 8 figure unrealized P&Ls on memes etc. How do you think about this dynamic for bass? Yeah, I mean your first point about the strategy I think is largely correct, right? I think what Bass brings to the market is its markets and its assets, right? It's got the deepest liquidity on CBBTC, which is the onchain version of Bitcoin, the deepest liquidity in CBE.

It's got the deepest lend and borrow pools, billions of dollars. It's got huge borrow demand from existing Coinbased retail and institutional investors. So, yeah, I mean, it's it's being the chain for international finance and then distributing through whoever wants to work with us and distribute through us, which can be FOMO, it can be neo banks, it's the entire world that's coming on chain. So I think yeah broadly speaking that is the correct strategy on the social side man I don't know what to say there. I mean [laughter] look I mean the the the the tycoons and the magnates have always been celebrities right that the means of acquiring that wealth and influence have varied through time but I think it's always been the story and I think crypto is part of that story too and you know it's just the it's the world we live in.

>> Yeah. And so just to kind of double click on that, do you think that there is like that that there's some actual merit to this leaderboard style social trading copy trading? You get paid to basically choose a token, buy it, write a thesis, and then if people follow you, you get kind of like a like a fee almost because you made money and you help them make money. like is this just like the next natural evolution of kind of internet finance is just kind of moving it on chain and then kind of making it very intertwined in like this social PVE PVP game.

>> Yeah, probably. I mean I think it's you know and if you get big enough you become Goldman Sachs, right? I mean that's the I mean it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, right? You get all these people to follow your takes and then all of a sudden you guys can move markets etc. Right. >> Yeah. But I mean to be a little cynical about it, it's no different than the equity analyst sitting in all the uh all the Wall Street firms who also do the same. They just distribute. >> It's open. >> Yeah, it's exactly. It's I it's it's the Joe Rogan to like the mainstream media like NBC anchor of 20 years ago. I guess you could look at it that way in a way. Yeah. And >> yeah, I think that's that's probably the right take on it. >> Are you on FOMO or anything? Are you on

any of those apps? >> Uh I use all of them to some degree. >> Cool. Okay. Um, I'm just curious when we can expect more assets. Like I think that's what that's what the world is demanding. Like you guys have [laughter] deep deep liquidity, >> you know, in a handful of these these tokenized equities. And I'm just I'm excited because I think we were all projecting that there were, you know, hundred trillion dollar equities market comes on chain. You can kind of, you know, the TAM obviously is, you know, significantly larger. But what we couldn't predict were these non-skeorphic use cases. The things that take the hundred trillion dollar asset class and then multiply it by some degree because we came up with this

weird use case that no one predicted until it was until it existed and we could see it like I so I'm just curious like when we when we're going to get more you know I know you guys are cranking you're working hard but uh this it feels like we're finally have starting to have fun again on chain. >> Yeah I mean that is the question which is why I'm sort of laughing about it. I don't want to [laughter] give too much more more assets are on the way. I think the the sort of partial downside of doing things the right way in a properly regulated not halfbaked sort of way is that yeah the rollout can be slower. You can't like it just isn't the case that you can launch you know a 100 names at once and actually do it in the right way. And so yeah, it's going to have to

be a slow burn of you know going down the list of the assets that people want to trade. But again, this is a long game, right? There's literally hundred trillion dollars that need to come on chain and we're at like not even we're at like five bips of that hundred trillion, right? And so we're we're playing the long game at Coinbase per usual. But yes, more more assets are coming. >> And obviously there's like a productled growth strategy as you guys bring more assets, you bring more protocols and that sort of is going to attract some people, you know, inbound. What are some of the other strategies aside from like kind of just launching new products?

It's a little bit obvious. Do you guys have social strategies? Do you guys have an institutional like what are some of the growth strategies that you're employing aside from just launches? >> Well, I want to I don't want to leave too much of the road map here, but I mean again going back I think earn borrow and like financing is is a critical part. If you own an asset, you should be able to lend it out or or margin against it. and you should be able to margin against it against the entire portfolio margin which again is the sort of thing like if you're a hedge fund and you've got a prime brokerage relationship with Goldman just to pick on Goldman like you can do that by default because they give you that margin your average user kind of doesn't get that really right and particularly

if you start throwing in tokenized equities per you know your poly market bet whatever there's there's no way to really do that in an offchain way so I think having financing on top of that I think is super important because if you are buying and holding an asset you want to monetize that so I think that that's one of the big growth strategies actually and then the other I think is like the glider thing, right, with ATP of just like I I want to it's it's a random thing, but I was listening to the acquired podcast with Vanguard and the rise of like nocost ETFs as like this critical phase in the history of like finance. And I think things like ATP and tokenized equities where you have an interesting thesis that emerges over the course of like a month or a quarter, which is too short to actually launch in

UETF because these things take too long to roll out. I think that's kind of interesting. the fact that I can just invest in like I want to go long the AI hardware play or something, right? It's like it's difficult to get that exposure in a con like it's hard to find like the Vanguard fund that covers that necessarily, but I not to speak for them, but I assume glider companies like them are going to produce that portfolio in a second. So, I think that yeah, sorry. Go ahead. >> Ju I just want to follow up on that. Is is that will that resemble the vault complex that we see today where we have curators and they're responsible for sort of like putting together what the assets in that bucket look like and they're kind of actively monitoring the space.

>> Yeah, I think so. I mean that's the way it's shaping up now. Gliders working handin-hand with Bitwise which is the fund manager manage these things and then it's the tokenized equities. It's this weird thing, right? It's funny DeFi that like you've got the asset manager, you've got like the strategy vault curator, you've got the chain with the onchain asset, and it all kind of comes together and works. And we collaborate a little bit, but there isn't like some year-long development cycle that we went through with Glider to enable this, right? They just built to the B20 token standard, which is what tokenized equities are, and it all just kind of works, right? And so that's that's I think that's going to be the interesting collaborations that you start seeing um examples like that where you and like well you already cited the example of

pairing memecoins with tokenized equities. That's that's another very nonkeomorphic use case that emerged. I I I I suspect we're going to see a lot more craziness as these as these assets roll out. >> It feel it feels like we're at this intersection point this confluence between multiple factors where yeah we we got the chain covered every chain is fast and cheap. Now we have the equities covered like we're bringing on ass you know this entire asset class. the liquidity piece and then and then the vault piece. Like all of these things have gotten built up enough, you know, through the cryptonative DeFi, you know, cycles where they've become resilient and Lindy enough that now it feels like they're ready for prime time, which is really fun and exciting. And um yeah, I just Yeah, I'm I'm looking forward to

even even more of it, I guess. >> Yeah. Well, and one last comment on that, right? It it means the competition is no longer at the chain level because all the chains are equally cheap and fast and whatever. It's really at like where can I go to trade the thing that I want and like the user doesn't care about the chain. The user shouldn't care about the chain. They just want to know like I want to know that I actually own Nvidia and that it's real and not some BS thing or I want to invest in this fund or I want to get this rate of return on my assets and then it just so happens that the app FOMO whatever uses base chain under the hood and it's just a better product. They don't really know what chain they're on but like it shouldn't matter. So I think it just ups

the competition from the sort of base metal level of the chain to all these other levels that that you cited. >> Actually, I think we totally agree like it's gone from a chain centric view of the world to like an assetentric view of the world. It's just very much so like you know what what do I want to trade? Okay, I'm going to go on an app that has it and I'm going to trade it. I'm not going to bridge from Ethereum to Polygon to base to Salana. I'm just going to go on the phone app or the computer app and I'm going to buy that that asset. And so the middleware providers, the bridges, the asset providers, all these things are very very important. Um, but they've almost been obuscated so much, you know, one could argue uh into irrelevance in terms of like their value to the user.

Like you don't see the oracle, you don't see the bridge, you don't see the chain, you don't even know you you're just buying that token. And so I think, you know, as you say, the the it becomes distribution, it becomes assets, it becomes depth of liquidity, it becomes breadth of assets. It's kind of a new game here. And so, Antonio, could you tell us a little bit more about this B20 token standard because we we've seen this, right? Like the innovation seems to have moved away from the chains and onto the assets like compliance and accounting and the the shareholder rights that you're talking about embedding into these assets. Yeah. How do how do you guys do it on base?

>> Yeah. Okay. So, this B20 business, the 20 comes from ERC20, which for those who don't know is like the basic token standard in the Ethereum world. And it's basically an RC20, but it's got additional functions you can call on it. So, um, you know, it it's obviously got compliance features. Um, it's obviously got, you know, OFAC test, so you can't send it to wallets that are like obviously, you know, banished from normal society. Um, it's got things like the multiplier thing, like I said, to handle dividends. So, if you get a dividend, you multiplier goes up, so when you sell it, you actually get the dividend. Um, it's just it's it's a standard that goes beyond just like a token that's on chain to something like an actual asset or security that trades on chain. Um, and that was developed not by my team, but by the actual base chain

team. So again, it's like, you know, the chain is humming along. It's the engine room, but then we're building the assets and the security standards on top of the chain that actually matter and that actually function. And so that's another example of where things have gone up from like the bare metal to another level. But that's what the B20 thing is. And again, you can imagine all sorts of real world assets, not not just equities, but commodities, gold, all sorts of things can get wrapped in a B in a B20 standard. >> Yeah. And then I assume it's like a programmable level of kind of compliance or restrictions like that's, you know, at the creator level basically. Yeah. Um I know Yeah.

>> I I know we just have a couple minutes here and I know you're busy. So happy Monday. Great Monday. Green Monday. Um monthly close today. Beautiful. Yeah. I mean we're just we need to get into the market. I'm just curious, man. What is the state of onchain marketing? Like I know you have so much experience between addresses and tracking and links and you know there's there's this thing called the Facebook pixel which I is what I kind of understand what kind of spindle did in a similar way like what is onchain marketing look like? You know we run a media company we do a lot of different marketing campaigns. What is like onchain activations onchain marketing tracking? Maybe just like a quick like update as to the state of

where that's at. >> Yeah. Yeah. So the let's linger on this pixel thing because I think your your listeners may not know about it. I was a PM at Facebook way back in the day when the pixel was developed. And basically when you go buy a thing and you click through a Facebook or an Instagram ad to get there and you buy the thing a signal goes back to Facebook saying like mission accomplished they got through the un user funnel like increment you know the value of this ad charge them for the conversion etc. It's a way of stringing together the top of funnel like the thing you saw to the bottom of funnel like you buying the thing and the entire spindle thesis which again I think has become just how crypto marketing works more broadly is that like that back plane of like there's no

pixel firing it's like you did the thing on chain right like that at the end of the day the blockchain kind of is the the marketing or the attribution sort of database and so like a lot of what we do is just understanding there's this thing called builder codes which is kind of like Hyperlid's builder codes if you're not familiar with like the builder code concept when you go and transact on some front end say trade.xyz XYZ for Hyperlquid or some of our partners on base. They append a totally, you know, anonymous little code to the transaction data that says, "Oh, you know what? This user came from, you know, FOMO or Kyers swap or LiFi or whatever, right? And then we know we can actually take that user and see how how well they monetize on chain and acrew that value back to the partner that actually drove the

user. So again, it's it's not like the pixel because there isn't like cookies and PII and GDPR and all that kind of like murky privacy world. it really is just onchain data, right? And all it's saying is like, well, you kind of came through this front end and and and then this the rest of the chain data is there. So, like tying that flywheel together of like where did the user come in from? How well did they do? And making sure that some value is shared with the user. We're running a trading contest on on the tokenized equities right now, but also potentially to the to the distribution partner as well. So, it's really just closing that that growth loop in some way. And it's still an unsolved problem, by the way. I think it's still hard to grow in crypto, but we're trying to to work as hard as we

can. And then from the perspective of a marketer for you know maybe a CMO out there or a comm's lead or growth lead how important are you or how important do you ascribe onchain attribution tracking to be for any given DeFi protocol blockchain etc like is it a non-negotiable? >> So it depends what year you would have asked me this over the course of the past four years. When I first started Spindle, like I had conversations with what were then billion-dollar protocols, some of whom don't exist anymore, but and I talked to the CMO and it's like what's your CAC? What's your LTV? Like what's your acquisition cost? What's your lifetime value? And they're like, what's a CAC? Like what are you talking about? Right? So that was the state of crypto knowledge like circa 2022 2023 I think I mean not just because of spindle

obviously but because of just the maturation of the space I think you're getting to a point like the best protocols you know the morphos and obs and they know what their cs are what their LTPs are right and so yeah I think the growth teams inside these large protocols that have real revenue they onchain attribution is the name of the game and it's still hard to do right because you've got like the blockchain is murky there's a lot of people that can just come through an RPC node and transact on your protocol and you have no idea where they came from Right? But by the way, that was true in the off-chain world as well. Right? If you have a if you have Google Analytics, I'm sure your website, you look at your Google Analytics, you've got an organic column. Organic just means the attribution system failed and we don't

know where it came from. That's all it means, right? And so in the in the onchain world, you also have an organic unattributed thing which is like, well, I don't know. We didn't touch them where they are in the funnel. But for the rest of it, yeah, I think it's this this field has has matured a lot and everyone tracks all of this to some degree or another in a way they didn't in the past. Yeah. Is is the number one metric that you guys are targeting right now just plain users or is it TVL volume? What what are you guys prioritizing? I mean it's it's the sort of metrics like you know if I if I shut you in a room for 15 minutes and said give me the metrics that you think describe the health of the base economy you'd come up with the same metrics right so obviously

sequence to revenue is one of them because at its core it's how we monetize but there's there's things that are above that that are more important volume is one of them obviously lend borrow TVL is another payment volume is another it's like the core metrics that make like you'd get on any Dune dashboard for bass it's those metrics are the ones that that that kind of really matter for us >> yeah you guys are crushing >> yeah absolutely This [clears throat] is uh as much as it's a base versus Robin Hood kind of battle right now, it's really this pie is about 1 1,000th of where we're going to be and and it's only expanding. And so we're excited to see base list more tokenize equities and continue its growth uh as we are with with other platforms and just see this entire space grow. just awesome to see

the onchain landscape evolve into fully kind of matured alternative route for people to trade, invest, earn, save, etc. And so, um, it's all happening. It was kind of a boring bare market. It was all institutional tokenization, stable coins corporating from onchain to uh, you know, equities, etc. And so, we're happy to be here. Um, happy Monday to you, AGM. I appreciate you spending some time with us. And >> can I make can I make one last prediction to round up the thing?

>> Absolutely. >> We're talking about onchain equities and this whole thing. I think I analogized it in another show. Onchain equities is to like regular equities as stable coins are like to us to to like dollars, right? And we're I think we're already converging to a place where you're going to send money. You're not going to know whether it's onchain or offchain that you're sending money. All you know is that your cousin and wherever got it. I think two years from now, we're not going to be talking about onchain stocks. We're going to be talking about stocks and some fraction of the stocks are going to be onchain and some of them are going to be offchain. I think that's where we're going to be hopefully a few years from now. >> I think so too. And it's just funny that you brought brought that up because you

know we were obviously talking about this board sit funky thing but then there's also like all of this price dislocation between the tokenized stocks and the offchain stocks right now. And that is going to be a very lucrative opportunity for a few market makers that are going to arb that real quickly and just make them stocks to your point. >> Well, you know what's going to happen there? So, I was hoping you weren't gonna ask this because a little awkward the whole business of the price discrepancies over the weekend. But, you know what's going to eventually happen? NASDAQ and NY are going to have 247 trading too and that's that's how I that's just like a random raw prediction based on zero insight information to be clear. But I think what what's going to happen is that crypto and you already see it with hyperlquid and like oil

futures, right? Is going to pull the market to be more of a 247 thing going forward. I think that it's going to crypto is going to pull all of TRFI forward. >> Yep. It's crazy. All the markets are starting to converge on on crypto. more volatile, more speculation, more social, more narrative. It's just Yeah, it's it's interesting. So, AJM, wish you the best. Keep growing. Thanks so much for coming. Looking forward to the explosive growth here. >> Cool. Thanks, guys. >> Cheers, man. >> See you, buddy. >> All righty, Rob. >> Show goes on. >> Yeah, I mean, bullish. I mean, bullish. I mean, we saw the Aer Drrome liquidity pools. We saw the yields available. I saw crypto yield info. um you know uh screenshot tweet that he usually does

that are 5,000% AP wise and he's saying that you know he's uh he's not retired anymore. So good to good to have AGM on and I mean Bass is Bass versus Robin Hood will simply continue simply continue. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right and I think you know base obviously is Lindy and it's got uh first mover advantage when it comes to the rollup uh and it comes to the decentralized exchange and liquidity overall but Robin Hood I mean comes out with a bang and and now has the first mover effect on the tokenized equities front and so very similar to other uh other industry segments you end up with

this leapfrog effect. this leaprog effect where you know this thing was the frontr runner right on several different facets the chain the exchange right tons of trading volume more base actually has more trading volume significantly more than Robin Hood but now Robin Hood takes the lead on this particular segment right and so now they've leaprogged ahead and we've seen this take place in you know several different industry segments obviously all all over the place in the AI models as well and so with that being said I'd imagine that very soon we're going to see someone leapfrog Robin Hood. And I think it was sort of I was sort of skeptical honestly. I might have been in disbelief right a few

weeks ago before we got this market pump before we got all of this mimetic activity happening on Robin Hood because there was like one or two runners on memecoins. I'm not really big into playing like the whole memecoin musical chairs game. I do really like supporting the infrastructure so that people can play that game, right? And so now that we've got what seems to be a new primitive, it feels a lot more sustainable than just a few runners. And now I think whereas before it might have just been a flash in the pan, came and went. Now it feels like we're actually going to get a little bit more of a uh an upswing in the narrative and we're going to see these things leapfrog one another. So, I'm I'm excited for that

because it feels like before it felt like maybe it would have just been like here and then it was over, but now it feels like we're a lot more in something like a primitive, which isn't which which I think is a lot more sustainable than a narrative. Not not to get too deep into the semantics here, but like a narrative feels like it could be flash in the pan, it's there and then it's over. A a primitive feels like there's a lot of room to grow on top of it. And you know, Robin Hood chain, I think, went from a narrative when it first launched >> Y >> to now a new primitive that it's it's been able to establish itself as a first mover. And so this now is just extra re, you know, reinforcement that I think we

are in this pre-bull phase. It feels extremely early rather than it feeling like a flash in the pan. You know, if you missed it, there it went. Now it feels like there's actually room here to establish something uh with a lot of growth potential. >> Zcash $860, Hyperlquid 84.22 pump getting a nice rebound off the lows there. VVV up, plume up, purr up, near up, lighter up, guys.

Monthly close three hours 20 minutes. Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? The strongest monthly close for basically a year. I mean, we hadn't we didn't get a stronger monthly close since se the end of September 2025. This is the strongest monthly close since the end of September 2025. A year or almost a whole year. >> How about we're having fun. How about that, guys? How about that? All right, guys. We've got uh Gome Kendall of Paxos uh talking to us about the state of the tokenization super cycle from the Paxos perspective. These guys are leaders in

tokenized gold, tokenized stable coins um and more products. So, >> obviously this I mean this ties right into what we were just saying >> because we've seen the tokenized equities build out. We were just chatting with you know uh Antonio from Bass. Obviously started off the show talking about Robin Hood. guys are kind of the front runners in the tokenized equities world. Paxos being a leader in the tokenized commodities world, gold, silver, stable coins. So >> yeah, let's get into it. Let's uh let's go ahead and bring up >> let's bring G up. >> All righty, G. What's going on, man? How you doing? Welcome to the show. Good to have you. It's the uh we are in the early innings of a tokenization super cycle man.

>> That we are. Thanks for having me, Andy, Robbie. Good to see you both. Um calling here from uh the UK, so I'm sorry if the light gets a bit dimmer. It's going to get dark here very shortly, but >> no, it's perfect summer. >> Very cool. Yeah, it's good to have you here. We've been talking about how tokenization is sort of the the precipice of the entire buildout that we're seeing on chain. It all sort of starts with tokenization and then everything, you know, the exchanges and the revenue meta and everything else is kind of downstream of that. And so, GM, I mean, maybe we'll start there. how important to your thesis of where the space is going is tokenization and we'll get into how Paxos is supporting the tokenization buildout.

>> Sure. I mean look uh core center 100% of uh everything we're doing here at Paxos has always been about bringing every asset on chain in a trustworthy way and then being able to move that asset. And so if you look at our very origins, um that was the whole reason behind actually the PAXG build out was how do we make the oldest commodity uh available 24/7 in a way that is accessible to anyone with a with a with a wallet. And that was the the reason for launching Pakshi back in 2019. Uh and so um it's it moving forward like we're we've actually we've we've done equities before, we've done uh securities before and we'll do them again. uh can't say too much more about like what our plans are moving forward on that basis but you will have seen

recently we just acquired our CA1 license uh in the US which is a major major milestone for us that means that we're a clearing agent um equivalent to the DTCC and no one else has that license and so when you're thinking about everything moving on chain and the settlement and clearing of those then um you know we can see how um the lenture that we're acquiring and the infrastructure that we're providing is uh really at the going to be at the forefront of playing uh in this space mostly with like major regulated players which is I guess where Paxus has always always positioned itself. >> Yeah man, can you tell us a bit more about this license? Um obviously you know today we had this headline news of Hyperlid looking to get into the US through a market entity with Kraken's parent company Payword. So, we're

clearly seeing what is I mean, you could argue the most I mean, you could say regulated sketchy venue per like per as a concept has like been illegal in the US forever, right? And now it's like Hyperlord's coming to the US like what? So clearly like we're on shoring anything from the lowest risk thing to 100x, you know, longs. So, you know, you guys probably somewhere in the middle there. What does this license let you do? And um how do you think about kind of onshoring of Paxos? >> So Paxus has always been so like certainly US uh Centrics as you may know we're the first to launch a tokenized asset um under our NYDFS trust at the time uh in in PAXG. Uh we had USDP which

was the forwarderunner to PayPal's stable coin PUSD which we're the issuer for. Uh and now all of those assets have moved to our OC trust. So we have an operational OC um um trust uh gives us all all 50 state uh national coverage um from a from a regulatory perspective. What that means in terms of our clearing license is something that we just announced maybe two months ago is that uh we're able to clear securities um and so um as I mentioned earlier only the DTCC is able to do that today in the United States.

And so that puts us in a in a great position to especially with our capability around and and long-standing um uh experience in the tokenized space like being able to position ourselves as a as a front runner for the clearing of all the assets you're talking about coming on chain because they are coming on chain uh but they need clearing. Obviously the TTCC has their own pilot going on the sandbox. Uh but yeah, so um what exactly we'll do specifically and like what assets we'll start supporting in in the short to near term is still being decided from a a strategy perspective. Um but it yeah it's it's always been you know Paxus I think it's interesting if you look back at our 14 year history now um we've always been really taking the longer harder road to

um to market and being working with credential regulators all over the world. So we work with the MAS in Singapore. We work with the FINFSA in Europe. We work with the ICC in the US. Um and we've worked obviously with the uh ADFC in in Abu Dhabi. Um but um sorry the DTCC um so yeah the the ADF ah the the Abu Dhabi uh clearing agency. And so um the the main point here is really that uh it's I think been to some extent um the rest of the crypto world has moved to your point like with Per and everything else in an unregulated fashion and grown massive scale and massive revenues everything else and now

Paxus is finally at this crossroads where we're seeing with the the administration the US and the sort of the rest of the world looking very closely where major institutions are being um brought into the market in a way that they haven't been before. That's across stable coins, that's across tokenized securities, that's across commodities and everything else. So um >> yeah, it you know, we've uh spoken on a number of these different verticals like we mentioned earlier, you know, talking primarily about tokenized equities. One of the comments earlier was, you know, we'll probably see the New York Stock Exchange and NASDAQ respond with their own 247 offerings. Um, on the stable coin front, we've seen how uh, you know, there was a announcement last week, I

think it was Bank of America, Wells Fargo, and a couple others, Santander, that say now they're building out their own stable coin and obviously in response to the entire stable coin build that that we've seen on chain. So given that these institutions are responding to the developments with creating their own offering, how do you think we will start to see these things interact with one another? Do you have maybe a general thesis? And it could be, you know, vertical byvertical, category by category, but I'm curious how you see the competition playing out. you know, Paxos obviously doing big things in the in the stable coin world as well as in some of these other industry segments. How do you interface with some of the institutional

counterparts that are considering, hey, maybe, you know, we'll partner with Paxos or we'll build out our own offering. How do you sort of navigate those relationships? >> So, there's a few things here to to unpick. The first is that the ones you just mentioned um is an initiative called Pharaoh, I believe. And so, you know, it's not dissimilar to Kavales in Europe and a number of, as I said, financial institutions that previously may have felt without the regulatory um guardrails in place that they weren't quite in a position to be able to leverage the technology. But this what it all comes back to is moving dollars faster and cheaper on chain. And what does that unlock for financial institutions both in terms of seeing off a risk potentially like a threat from um you know a lot of people are excited

about um the the potential of moving dollars outside of the court like this was what crypto was launched at right the this disintermediation of banks. We don't think that's going to happen. We think if anything the banks are going to be the ones that make it happen. And so um and when they do so they have to work with those who have experience and those who are regulated and have a long history of being being regulated and understand like the pressures and and and overhead that comes with that. So there's sort of two calls really. One is that they can partner with us from an insurance perspective if they're not looking necessarily to do it themselves. I think the banks will be the first to tell you they're not necessarily uh the ones who have the right uh skill set internally to build uh and ultimately

like support a stable coin. There's a lot of challenges in I mean you've seen the number of stable coins that have launched in the last sort of 18 months. The amount that make it over a billion is very very low. Um and it comes down to liquidity like market access from uh different venues. Got to bear in mind that also the majority of adoption is still cryptonative. So, how do they like get their stable coin to um to like get adoption and and value outside of their own uh ecosystems? And I think that's where these consortiums are trying to work it out. It's like, okay, well, are we just sending money to each other? If so, we'll do that pretty efficiently. Like, where is the value in moving some that on chain? And I think a lot of that is what they're still trying to to to

resolve for is okay, what are the first use cases we're going to go for as institutions? Is it crossber payments? visit 24 settle 24-hour settlement of these securities and like assets that we're not previously able to interact with because we just don't have the infrastructure or the fiat leg um to move in and out of those. Uh so yeah, they could partner with us to build it. Um but then the question is like why build your own uh as opposed to one that already exists? Well, I can't use the unregulated ones out there because they're unregulated. Or I can use others, but I want to benefit from the economics. And I don't know if you know, you guys know um USG, I think we're >> 3.5 billion in in market cap. It was the fastest growing stable coin like of late in the top 10,

>> but that really >> prominent on Robin Hood chain now as well. >> Hugely prominent. Exactly. So, you know, we're really proud of that partnership. Um and so what you're seeing with USG and the reasons why firms like Robin Hood are uh using it is because we share all the economics and this was long before uh USD came out and said hey we're going to share economics. Uh we know we've been doing this since November 2024 >> and the global dollar network is founded on that very principle is we don't think that the mass adoption of stable coins moving forward is going to come from um uh unregulated players. is going to come from fiat dollars moving on chain uh from institutional regulated players and they want to benefit from from the economics and so we always share everything that we earn overnight from

the underlying reserves with members of the network and that puts us in a great position not just within Europe where it's mika regulated but also when you're looking at genius everything that we're looking around what's what's coming down the road there is that um the sharing of rewards with partners like on a marketing basis which is the the core of the global dollar network is is going to be uh is going to be good under under Genius and um and the US uh regulatory structure. >> Yeah. And G just on that note because you made a really good point with regards to the question of like then what right this is what you hear about you know consortium chains about stable coins in private blockchains or private networks or even just broadly tokenization of assets. It's like okay you tokenize this or you launched a

stable coin then what right and you spoke to about you know the different payment structures or the ideas someone in the chat is asking about the difference between USDG and USDG0 and maybe that can kind of like allude to what you're saying is like why this evolution of USDG has happened and what that kind of distinction allows for. >> Yeah. So USG is like um version on layer zero and so it nature is to be crosschain um in chains that we aren't necessarily natively supporting under USG. Uh and so really that's the core difference. Um I can't really speak necessarily to what the advantages are over uh USG0 outside of that that it's available more broadly on different chains but if you look at the chains

that USG is supporting today being Salana ETH Robin Hood Inc. um um um at X layer there's uh there's like plenty of optionality out there of native support. Um what we're also seeing I think in terms of the adoption is that you know DeFi adoption is starting to go uh pretty pretty wild for for USCG uh and the way in which the rewards are being regenerate redistributed to uh vault creators and others is really helping especially in the market we've had until very recently people look for like yield opportunities and um the economics kind of comes out the box which is which is nice um >> and I'm not too sure that necessarily USDG0 um the economics are as um prevalent from a returns perspective.

>> Understood. One thing on the Robin Hood thing on the Robin Hood growth is a lot of these um stock pairs are paired with USDG on unis swap or at least some of them right and you guys have this really you know unis swap's got this innovative V4 hooks design that allows for a lot of really interesting uh types of liquidity pools and innovative um you know LP designs etc. And one of the things that we saw over the weekend, specifically across the board, is you're seeing these stock prices dislocate from the closing price on Friday to the opening price on Monday. And that's obviously by design, right? Like there's 24/7 trading. People are going to, you know, buy or sell

based on whatever happens over the weekend. But I'm just curious about some of like the settlement process here for um tokenized equities and tokenized assets over the weekend. Is there anything different that needs to happen for USDG as a issuer of a stable coin to be able to provide settlement for different pairs that are not um you know 24/7 pairs? I guess kind of what I'm asking here is like in the growth of this tokenization boom, what changes need to be reflected in the design or the use of USDG to make it as pristine of a settlement asset as possible given, you know, the liquidity on a lot of these pools are still quite small and it's still quite early. What are you

guys doing here to kind of make sure that, you know, basically people don't get sandwiched or people, you know, don't get really bad spreads, etc. just how do you think about this um kind of changing of assets on chain as it pertains to the settlement capabilities of USDG? >> So you can always come to Paxos and exchange USG one for one with USD. Uh that is a regulatory core like hard requirement from our regulators um that that is the case. So no matter what happens on chain um from a a pricing perspective, you can always come to Paxos and exchange as I said one to one like with no fees. Um so I can't really speak to like necessarily um the

specific challenges with uh 24hour um liquidity. Like it sounds like you kind of hit the point the liquidity is thin in some of these assets and people got to be aware of that when they're going into them that there's probably going to be uh some slippage when they're executing their their their trades but on the like USG leg it's always a dollar um end of >> um what is an interesting point like you make and we see this a lot with gold as well right is like gold is a very reactive uh asset when thinking about um global events and so we see these dislocations like when gold isn't trading during London gold hours or or anywhere else in the world pack is really the reference price um for for the gold price and

what's interesting I think we saw some research pretty recently where the convergence of actually the Monday opening with the Sunday price is starting to get closer and closer and closer and closer and that's the thing you're seeing is because that the liquidity of gold the amount of trading activity on pack is like quadrupled if not even further in the past sort of six months part of that is because of the price of gold in relation to the price of crypto. Uh like gold hit almost $55,000 an ounce which was like wild. Uh >> crypto assets weren't doing so well. I think we saw a huge outpouring of from stable coin necessarily whether just crypto assets into Pax G. Um but the price yeah it does move when one country starts you know bombing another. Uh so

um and and and those I think will just necessarily get tighter as more and more assets, more and more cash, more and more trading activity moves 24/7. That's not going to happen overnight. It's going to be a long journey, but the direction of travel, when you look at everything that the financial infrastructure that is today not 247 is doing, they are all to your point, I think Robbie earlier, moving to launching 24-hour uh markets. >> Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. And G, I mean I I'm not sure your, you know, expertise on American macroeconomics, but I was just in Jackson Hole last week for the Federal Reserve chair meeting for Kevin Wars's speech. mentioned. Um, you know,

it's kind of an interesting time in the Federal Reserve right now because you've got a the Secretary of Treasury of the United States of America. Um, Scott Bessant is buying longdated bonds in an attempt to reduce the steepening long-ended yield curves. 30-year uh uh yield is now over 5.2%, 10 years over 4.7%. These are extremely extremely high bond yields for the US. Um, and in any other regime than this fake Fugazi world that we're currently living in, um, that would be a massive problem for everybody. But of course, whatever world that we're living in, I mean, we're just spiraling until until Bitcoin is the one world reserve currency, but we'll get to that in a different story. Um, and so

that being said, what's happening is Kevin Wars is having to play ball with Besset. And what's the result of this is that stable coins are becoming a national economic security mechanism. Why? Because under the Genius Act, stable coins issuers are required to hold T bills under 93 days in terms of their expiration or their maturity, which is their shortterm T bills. And so if Secretary Treasury uh Scott Bessett can get stable coin issuance to explode next one to two years, he will have enough demand for short-term Treasury T bills that will allow him to keep playing around with the longer end of

the curve and kind of keep everything okay. And so stable coins have now become a national economic security item for the US. How do we get stable coin issuance to grow? Well, the number one way has been crypto bull markets. You get this bull market, people want to borrow, people want to go, you know, trade. There's a lot more settlement happening, there's a lot more transactions happening, there's a lot more issuance happening because there's more demand for crypto assets. There's more demand to, you know, earn yield on chain, etc., etc. So you've kind of got this perfect storm where we have a tailwind of the US government incentivized to extend the US dollar uh hedgeimonyy globally as a result of um this desire to create more structural

demand for short-term T bills. So that's kind of like the macro macroeconomic context. You know, I'm just curious how you think about this proposition of stable coins being this extension vehicle for the US dollar. And then you can, you know, extrapolate this to the pound, to the euro, etc. And you can start to see how maybe previously, you know, there hasn't been that much demand from these countries for their short-term T bills because why would I hold those when I can hold stocks that are, you know, 7% a year almost guaranteed the last 10 years. But now we've got the structural bid for tea bills. How do you think about the US government and other kind of world governments backing stable coins as a means to kind of secure their uh

economic, you know, I guess dominance. >> Yeah. Um thank you for like that very um eloquent explanation of the macroeconomic state of the US. Uh it's not dissimilar here in the UK. Uh and I think a lot of like federal banks are starting to think about this in the right way. Certainly what we're seeing, what we're most excited about uh is that the US is certainly leading the way, right? And so um it's no surprise that uh other stable coin issuers, ourselves included, are some of the major holders of US debt uh today that um they want to like grow that demand. We've always been uh required through our regul before genius

to hold very shortdated uh treasuries as the underlying assets. uh what I think becomes interesting is that uh the yield that's generated from that is actually the yield that incentivizes the use from the participants of global dollar network for example. And so you do have like this fine game to play that you want it to be interesting enough for people to hold those assets and use them rather than um redeem them and I guess then redeem their uh the need for the underlying asset to be held. And so, uh, what's interesting at the same time as well as there's a lot of focus on this yield sharing, right? Uh, or the lack of and again like how are you going to incentivize people to use the the tokenized, um, dollar uh, in and over

the the use of their fiat. Um, and so I think that like people are thinking about this the right way. We're certainly there. We're very excited about it. I would just caution that when we're talking about the adoption of stable coins today, you're still at like $300 billion of USD stable coin in the market. That's a very small amount of dollars uh in consideration of the amount of US dominance out there in the world. Um and I think you made a point about trying to drive like a crypto bull run uh to drive stable coin demand uh as like as the the the flywheel. [laughter] Um I think what we're probably more excited to see is major financial institutions who do move trillions of dollars use the rails for the purposes of like efficiency um uh that stable coins provide. Uh, and so not forgoing

the fact that we're obviously very interested in a bull run. [laughter] >> So, Gio, one of the things that I think was hidden in that macro rant was the idea that there are some sensitivities to interest rate fluctuations. Um because what I what I understand you saying please correct me if I'm wrong is that as interest interest rates fluctuate that impacts the amount of yield that you can pass back to the participants in the global dollar network and if interest rates are lower there might be less yield. If there interest rates are higher there might be more yield. Is that generally the right way to think about this? And if so, if they do end up, you know, kind of bring interest rates down, how how does someone like Apaxos react to that to

maintain the partnerships and maintain significant and sufficient volume flowing through the network? >> Yeah. So, I guess the first thing to clarify is that we don't pass yields onto our members. We share rewards. Uh those rewards are derived from the revenues we generate from the underlying assets. Uh and that's really important differentiator because we're paying members of our network who are the institutions like OKX, Robin Hood and others that you've mentioned, not the end holders or like individuals, >> right? >> Um but the po point you've made is correct. As those um underlying assets fluctuate in returns, it changes the amount that we ultimately make uh and are able to redistribute in through rewards. Um the way in which the GDN

specifically is structured is that we also um like as USG becomes more and more available or held by nonGDN members, those underlying reserves are still generating the same returns, right? And so we're not costing us the reward rate and so we're redistributing value. It's like it's it's a bit of a topic. uh but we we don't uh keep that additional value that's not being paid out to GDM members. We're redistributing it for minting rewards and acceptance rewards. And so when you're thinking about um the way in which you're growing the rewards that you're generating from USG, it's not just on the custody of it, it's going to be on the movement and acceptance of it that's generated by

more and more people hold it holding it that aren't in the network. So as interest rates go down, we're hoping more activity comes risk on. That means that's more driving for stable coins. to your point, Andy, earlier, uh because people are like trying to get access to to yields elsewhere, uh which means more USG out in the wild, which means more rewards being generated from >> the underlying assets that are being held that aren't costing us uh like a custody reward. >> Yep. Love it. >> Well, Gman, you guys are blowing up. I mean, you guys have been OGs in this space. Paxus is like I mean, you know, it's just I mean, Chad is like one of the most original gangsters of Bitcoin.

And I mean, it's just it's been a a a wild ride to see the the growth and it's all coming together for you guys. So, I know it's a busy Monday for you. We'll let you have a meat pie and maybe some tea over there. And uh thanks for joining us, man. >> My pleasure. Thanks so much for having me. Thanks for later. >> All right, buddy. >> Bang, bang, bang. Tokenization super cycle simply continues whether you believe it or not. Get on the train or get left. Robbie, >> the pudgy trainer, get left. >> I'm telling you, the Pudgie is just perfectly positioned back there. I don't know who put it, but you can tell. Oh, and you got the snow globe. Look at that.

>> Look at that Johnny Pop right there. >> That guy's posted. You got the guy posted and then the reflection in the window looks like he's looking out at the view of the Empire State. >> Yeah. Can we get a title change? Let me get full screen here. I need to go on a little rant about about Pangu real quick. Um, so guys, as you know, I am a avid Pudgy Penguin holder and fan and seed round investor uh for six years now. Um, and I am not selling my tokens. I am going to ride this thing for a massive move. People are all bullish on memes now. There is only one Pangu.

There is no other Pangu in this world. I'm a I'm I'm an owner. I'm an holder. And I will ride this out until we IPO. Igloo Inc. Igloo Inc. is going for an IPO. Luca Nets is one of the best founders in the entire space. I've got the collectibles here. I'm a Pengu fan. I'm a believer. I've got my friends on it. I've got Christmas gifts. It's all It's all coming together for the Penguins. How can you not love the Penguins, ladies and gentlemen? I'm a Pangu holder. I'm a believer. I'm a long-term investor. Lucan Nets is one of the best founders in the space. These guys make 10 million plus ARR for the last couple years, probably scaling, and there's not many bigger meme businesses

in the space. And I think they're one of the best. And my portfolio is absolutely ripping right now. Anything on that, Rob? Rob, tell us what kind of car you're about to go buy. It's bull market. Rob's buying a new car. He's got to go. Thankfully, I'm going to be able to hold it down because I'm back from the national parks. Rob, why don't you tell the tell the tell the chat what what kind of car you're looking at here. >> Uh that that's personal identifying information. I'm in my confident I'm in my shielded era, Andy. So, I don't think I'm going to be disclosing any of that information here on the show, but I have disclosed all of my portfolio allocations. There is nothing private about that. Yeah.

>> Um >> so, >> all right. Well, I'm going to pull a couple charts up because I mean, we look ready to fly. >> Yeah. >> I mean, look at Zack, man. >> Go on a little solo rant for the boys, >> Zack, man. I mean, >> let's get Let's get Andy solo with his chart. Let him just have some time solo with the chart. >> What is happening here? I mean guys, I mean you Okay, so if you guys have been watching for a while, you guys remember I drew this mimemetic uh green line from this entry that we had at about 500. So I've just longed my longs. Like I've just keep buying on the way up um on near.com and on variational. So, I've got a large spot bag and I've got a

large lowle leverage purpose bag and I mean I'm looking for a 546 day moonshot to over $10,000. Barry Silbert comes on. Barry Silbert tweets yesterday out of nowhere. I don't know if you guys saw this. Did you guys see this? I think this is a good quote tweet. Fun fact, Bitcoin went from $800,000 to or $800 to 20,000 in 2017. Fun fact. Fun fun fun fact.

How about this, guys? Can I get some breaking news, Leo? Give me a breaking news here. Breaking news here. Come on. Look at this, guys. Hyperlid in talks with we got breaking news here. Hyperlid is in talk with Kraken parent company Payward on establishing a US market entity. Hype is trading pretty well in the news at about $84 now. Um looks ready to go. Um chart looks strong on the weekly obviously but kind of zooming in here. I mean, we're just kind of oscillating at these all-time high levels and looks [snorts] really strong.

I think hype 200 is pretty much guaranteed, guys. As you guys know, one of my favorite ways to express this trade is through purr. Um, I'm in purr still. I did not get shaken out on this move down thankfully. It looks great, I think. Um, and yeah, I mean this is Hyperlow coming to the US is extremely bullish. Extremely bullish. extremely bullish. Also, I think hype or I think pump down here is a great great great little entry. If you can get back down to this MA would be money, but I mean I'm loving pump right now. I'm long. I love it. Bitcoin's going for the strongest monthly close. I think this is what we need to talk about, guys. We don't need to get into the charts too

much. I've got my little green circle up here. Um, but look at this monthly close on Bitcoin. Huge. Huge. Started at 62, ending at 79. We haven't even where you know and and we're kind of pumping now. Uh hype huge monthly start at 51 ending at 83 blue sky highs here on on the hype liquid monthly. I mean guys don't underestimate where this thing could fly to. I mean obviously it's going to take some time but like you know we're thinking we're thinking up here right? It's not going to happen next month. How about Zcash monthly close above all the previous levels. Zcash Bitcoin chart.

Let's check that out. Huge. I mean I mean like huge breakout here. Huge breakout. We're breaking out. Like I mean it's just I mean this chart is nuts. I mean this thing launched at seven Bitcoin per Z. I you know our target for this one is going to be closer to this level up here at around that 0.1 level. That's going to be our target a 10x from or about a 10x in Bitcoin terms. Think about it. Bitcoin goes to I don't know say 150 200 and Zcash does a 10x against Bitcoin. That's a 20 to 30x guys. I'm

not saying it's going to happen. Not saying it's going to happen. Just saying it's possible. Monthly on hype looks great. Monthly on pump looks silly as well. Obviously, we're targeting the highs. Monthly on link looks amazing as well. Um, monthly on lighter is ungodly. Um, targeting, you know, again, we're zooming out here, guys. Like, we're not going for like the little winds here. Like, this is this is going to be a big win. That's going to be this is going to trade above 10 near decent monthly. You know, got a nice bounce. Still has some work to do, but still looks good.

Plume finally getting a monthly here. Needed it. Double bottom breaking out above that level. Should be the bottom. Frack has some more work to do, but two strong greens. Can't be mad. VVV huge monthly. This one's going to pop next month. I think I think this one's going to really go. I think this one's going to really really go. Um, where can I buy? I'm not supporting these scammy pre-sale. Um, CLLDI Standard Reserve published a white paper. That's huge. I did see that. They also I think I'm on the white list. I'll be checking that out. But guys, I think this is going to just

explode. Like I think that I think we're on the verge of of a massive massive move here on Zcash. I think it's pretty much written in the stars. I mean, you guys know our positioning, right? Like, we're in hype, we're in Bitcoin, we're in Zcash, we're in lighter, we're in pump. Um, we're in near, we're in PER, we're in some of the sponsor tokens, plume, FRA, Zama. Um, Zama also with a huge monthly retested that breakout level there. Looks really good. Um, and there's more. I mean, Soul looks incredible. um as well on the monthly.

Huge monthly close like really really good. Also, my charts are in log scale, guys. That's why they look a little funny, but I like to zoom out. Zoom out on the log scale. Let's try to think a little bit bigger. Um ETH looks great. ETH monthly is a little bit crowded here. Let me get a different one. Yeah, I mean ETH monthly is super strong as well, but you can you guys can kind of see the difference, right? Like ETH has some work to do. Hype monthly looks insane. You know what I mean? Like yes, you know, Bitcoin put in a bullish monthly. I I'm in total agreement with that. But like look at this. And look at this. Those are different, right? Those are a lot

different. A lot different. We got a bottom on plume. Yay. Yes, sir. I think we did. I think we're I think ETH looks great, too. Honestly, I think ETH I think Don Alt has been on an absolute tear. Um, Donald is bullish tweeting again. Looks like we're going to get another leg up soon. I think he's right. But this is probably right. Whereas ETH is the cleanest chart in crypto and the rest of the market probably trades like ETH. I think he's right. You know, I think we want to see ETH keep pushing. That's going to be important for us. I think so. Yeah.

Barry Silbert is the most bullish bull poster. Like, oh my goodness. So bullish. So bullish. [snorts] Yeah. I mean, guys, I mean, this this market looks really good. Looks really freaking good. I can't believe I missed a whole week of crazy bullishness. Aer drum monthly looks okay. Just kind of stuck on this range. It needs a pop. It needs a pop. There's always some fugazi around the monthly close though, like you always get like, you know, random different weird events that happen like, you know, you get a pop and then you get a big pullback, but you know, set the monthly low in. But we'll see. I I think we just keep the lockout rally going. I think we just keep the

lockout rally going. All right, guys. Let's get into um our daily equity of the day. Um and some of the other news pieces here. Uh I I I know we went through the net net piece um and others, but I think we have a couple more to go through. Let's go through um Lighter and their revenue uh expansion because we have Edward in the chat who obviously loves Lighter. Um and we got some other things to to touch on. Robbie's gone to buy a car as you guys know. He wouldn't tell us what car he's getting. I don't even know what kind of car he's getting, but I think it's going to be something decent. Um, you know, it's been a good month.

So, let me just get lighter up here and let's continue. All righty. So, Lighter started as a zero fee retail or a zero fee venue for retail traders, but they are now expanding their revenue. So, what they're going to do is they are keeping their standard retail trading free while adding paid products for more sophisticated users. So, if you kind of scroll down, you'll see some of these. Um, basically, there are now standard accounts uh that pay one bit for advanced order types like T-Ws, RFQS, atomic orders, and chase orders while plus and premium include them. And so, there's different paid account tiers.

Now, uh there is higher API limits for active users towards plus and premium subscriptions. Um, and this is basically a new way to create recurring revenue for lighter without affecting the retail crowd who appreciates the free trading, right? That's a really nice part about lighter is that you have free retail trading. Um, they're also introducing a 0.5 bip minimum protocol fee for integrations versus roughly three to four and a half bips for um other uh competitors. Um so basically better better uh fees for in integrations and yeah I mean on for partners think like Robin chain think like integrators

of lighter underneath you can also expect to see a bit more of an increase almost a double in the increase of uh retaining of earnings for partners. So, if you keep scrolling down, you'll kind of see the ins and outs of this kind of uh update. And basically, they've thought through what type of traders that they have, who they want to market to and cater to, and how they want to generate more revenue for lighter token buybacks. So, you can see here, you got the standard account, you got the plus account, and you got the premium account. Um, and these [clears throat] are the different types of discounts here based on the amount of lit staked.

uh again trying to lock up the supply here as a means to generate more revenue and keep lighter off the market in terms of the token. So they're building multiple revenue streams around it their free trading uh which I think is great. They're monetizing their power users uh and their integrations while still offering structurally lower fees compared to centralized exchanges and other perpet uh competition. And I mean guys I just like I'm so bullish on lighter. I just like I'm in. I've been in for a long time. Spot and really low leverage per on lighter. I I I just this is it guys. I mean these this team is going to keep shipping. They will continue to grow and I think that they're going to do really well. So

crypto is back in a serious way. Yes. Uh Kim So big sell on 82k on Bitcoin already. We can work that out. This may not be the absolute bottom but it should be treated as such. They could quick crash but they will pump quickly to price people out. It's what they do. Yeah. I I'm with you. I'm with you. All right, guys. Let's keep it rolling. Uh into Ox Sammy. One of the wildest things he's seen play out on chain. Incidentally, close to how I described previously, the boner memecoin just cornered 81% of the onchain supply of the tokenized public company HIMS while Wall Street was closed for the weekend. Uh and so this is that coin we were talking about with Eric on FOMO, who I highly recommend as a follow on FOMO. He has been absolutely cooking on FOMO and he's been, you know,

just smashing it. Um, so I would highly recommend a follow there and yeah, I mean this is just nuts. I mean the Eric's up 1.2 mil on it. Um, I showed it to you guys earlier. Um, I mean it's just it's just uh I'll pull it up again here on the shared screen. If you pop that over uh you'll see you you'll see the chart. I mean it's still going now. It just it's moving up more. Uh it's over 40 mil now. Eric is now up $1.3 million on his buys. Absolutely insane.

Absolutely insane here for Eric who's a OG Ethereum dev. Um so I mean this is just how do you even like reconcile with this? I don't know. But it's hard to say that we're not back because we're clearly back on chain. sell. All right, guys. Let's keep it rolling. Uh before we do, let me tell you about 1 in. You may have heard this concept of shared liquidity flying around. Products like 1 in Aqua let you approve one wallet balance to back multiple positions at the same time across pairs, ranges, and chains. You're not splitting your tokens, and you're not depositing them, but you're not leveraging either.

It's a totally different way to keep your liquidity active in more markets. Swap tokens across 13 plus chains without bridging. Visit 1in.io/aqua to learn more. All right, guys. Uh, Robin Hood, we've got Vlad Teniff saying, "We're at the beginning of a tokenization super cycle. We firmly agree." Obviously, let's play this video, get some audio on it. Let's hear from our friend Vlad, who was also a high school classmate with the lighter CEO Vlad, not to be confused. >> Tokenization. We're at the beginning of a super cycle, and it's going to take over the entire financial system.

Now a month ago we launched Robin Hood chain outside the US and this this is our crypto blockchain and one of the interesting things about it is it includes stock tokens as a primitive which give tokenized exposure to US stocks. Now we started with 90 of them. Now we're up to 190. And these trade 24/7 uh and you can move them around the blockchain like you can Bitcoin or any other crypto asset. And and what they really do is give exposure to US stocks to people in over 120 countries. I think this this provides a roadmap for what the financial system can look like. Now,

I think uh tokenization in the US has come up and I'd say it's broken up into two camps. There's sort of two sides to it. On one side, enthusiasts that just want to get their hands on this new technology, new capability, and they're asking us, when is it coming to the US? What's that going to look like? On the other side, there's people that say, well, we already have simple access to markets here. We have products like Robin Hood that provide fractional shares, 245 trading. Maybe it's not 24/7, so what's even the point? And so through my post, I kind of outlined the three key improvements on an infrastructure level that can actually

impact people's lives in a positive way and make it easier in America for uh for for people to become investors and owners of our great economy. >> Yeah. I mean I mean guys I mean we've got the creator of the app that has onboarded every person who ever wanted to trade stocks in retail. We've got the creator of that company Schilling blockchain on CNBC. Like I this doesn't get any more obvious. These guys are going to list these crazy tokens on the Robin Hood main platform.

These guys are going to list madness on their apps. Like guys, we are at the precipice of the most insane Robin Hood le season on their chain. Like if you're not on FOMO and you're not on the app trading this stuff like or at least like checking it out, I think you're doing yourself a grave disservice and you're at least missing out on kind of like the newest trend that's happening. So I mean I think I I think Vlad is completely correct.

And I mean it's just insane. It's just insane. I mean you guys see what's happening on FOMO. I just showed you guys. It's insane. All right, guys. Let's get into our daily equity segment of the day. Um, from our friend Kyle. [music] So uh today's equity confirmed that a Micro Strategy market maker woke up and minted Micro Strategy to repe it causing Sailor Moon/MR to drop alongside the market maker made about 50K in profit.

No market maker has acted on the AMC pair which tokenized AMC traded at $2068 versus $259 offchain an o about a 10x an 8x higher this weekend. Something is happening here with tokenized equities on chain where the weekend is causing these crazy price fluctuations due to low liquidity and it's causing these massive massive moves like things you would not expect. It is crazy. We are seeing the rise of 24/7 spot trading stocks on Hypquid on a on unis swap and they are absolutely causing the most it feels like defi summer. It feels like 2020 on chain with

memes stock pairings with these crazy rallies with these short squeezes on chain. It is just it is just insane. AMC was trading so much higher. If you scroll down a bit um there is a massive massive mispricing that has been happening over the weekend here. Massive. I mean, there are market makers out there who are going to see this and are chomping at the bits to get their hands on some arbitrage opportunities. Chomping at the bits. It's absolutely insane. It's absolutely insane.

Equities are coming on chain. Market makers have their hands full. And we're going to continue to see this these large APYs and APRs to provide liquidity for them to help solve this issue. And we're going to continue to see this rapid rapid growth of tokenized equities on chain. And this is a problem that needs to get solved. And it will be solved. It will be solved. But right now, it's like the early days of the WW. It's insane. It's absolutely nuts. Guys, that's our daily equity today powered by our friends at dinari. Visit dinari.com to learn more about their offerings. I'm going to take a quick commercial break and we'll be right back.

Heat. Heat. [music] [music] [music] We get deep. We get deep. Knock.

We get deep. We know. We get deep. Get [music] all righty, guys. Amazing show today. W's in the chat. Deb's in the chat all around. W's in the chat all around. Fun show. The market looks like it's ready to explode. Hyperlid Zcash pump. Bitcoin itself. Huge monthly closes coming today, guys. massive. I mean, we persisted. We did it. We survived the absolute onslaught of what was April, May, June, July into about midway

through August. It was terrible. We, the viewership on the show was steadily growing, but it, you know, it's not fun like it is today. And we survived. I've been on, you know, a couple different trips in August and I was glad to step away. And then, you [snorts] know, I step away and the market rips. So, I'm not going anywhere. I'm not going anywhere. Rain or shine, bull or bear, green or red, you know where we'll be every single day from the tokenization tower calling in, helping you navigate this market, helping you trade on Robin Hood chain, helping you hold the right picks, helping you find the next big winners, the next airdrops on farming variational right now, for example.

We're going to help you make sure that you're on top of the market day in and day out. You're staying privy to the information that you need. Guys, again, the easiest way that that you can support us on YouTube is just throw us a like, throw us a subscription, turn your notifications on. We really appreciate it. Goes a long way to help to support this channel. We're blowing up right now on YouTube and on X. Everything is cranking analytics wise. We really, really appreciate you guys. You guys make the show fun. Everyone in the chat, you guys make it fun. We've been accumulating assets at the lows. We are in at the lows, guys. While people are still in disbelief, we are up anywhere from 40 to 150% on our biggest positions from the lows and we're going to hold them through the bull and we're going to

raise our targets. The next marginal buyer is cryptonative capital. The next marginal buyer is high net worth individuals and institutional allocators and then finally the retail stage will hit. We have three sets of marginal buyers to work through before we even thinking about selling these assets. We're in at the lows. All you have to do is hold. All you have to do is be strong, hold out, zoom out, raise your targets, guys. We're going a lot higher. The bull market is on. We're not going anywhere. You know where we'll be tomorrow. Live from the Financial Capital World, from the tokenization tower here in the Empire State Building in New York City. Shout out to all the producers, all the team, all the partners, all the guests. We appreciate y'all. Signing off for today. We'll see

you tomorrow around 12:30 p.m. Eastern from the Financial Capital World. You're watching the rollup. [music] >> [music]