Reto Trinkler & Mona El Isa: The Polkadot Protocol - One Blockchain To Connect Them All (158)

Transcript

this episode of epicenter is brought to you by the ledger nan OS the hardware wallet which sets the new standard in security and usability in it today at ledger wall calm and use the offer code epicenter to get 10% off your order and by Jax Jax is the user-friendly wallet that works across all your devices and handles both Bitcoin and ether go to Jay a double X IO and embrace the future of cryptocurrencies wallets all right welcome to epicenter of the show which talks about the technologist projects and startups driving decentralization and the global blockchain revolution my name is citizen cuiture and I'm a hello today we have a very special episode for our listeners we want to talk to Mona Lisa and later

drinkler there are co-founders of a project called melon melon port and they are building what is what might just become in the future the network of block chains and a decentralized access madness software to run on this network of block chains but before we get into their vision and what they're doing let us have a quick intro from the two of them starting first with Mona Mona can you tell us a bit about your background and how you came to be involved in the blocks industry sure I started my career in market making and trading equities at Goldman Sachs back in 2003 and then in 2011 I I moved to the hedge fund world and became a hedge fund manager running

a part of a long short multi strategy portfolio and about just over a year ago I decided to take some time off to explore the world of blockchain and in particular some of the use cases for the technology to enhance what felt like a lot of inefficiencies in our industry met reto pretty soon after that and we've been working together pretty much ever since cool and an entry door tell us a bit about your background since when have you been working in this space and what have you been doing hi I'm Rita I have a background in mathematics from the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology I've been following a theorem more or less over

ever since I first heard of it I've been working at Rainbow technologies and now I'm working at Mellon port we spinning the melon project so as mayor kind of put at the beginning of this show this is this is sort of a fundamental new concept that we're gonna try to dissect today and we've we've been reading the white paper and in fact our listeners to know we tried to record this episode a couple days ago and weren't able to really construct a sort of clear and sensible you know framework for how

we're gonna explain this so we said okay let's let's come back on it and try to explain it again so I hope that we get it right this time because it is fundamentally something that is quite different from anything that we've seen before and and to me it sort of feels a lot like when we first started talking about etherium more than two years ago and that it's completely novel and it requires you to have a new type of outlook on how you consider what a network looks like especially in the context of blockchains so polka dot is and I'll let you sort of explain it right reto is a network of networks it's it's a network of block

chains and specifically what it would allow is for different block chains depending on regardless of their size their functionality of the types of industries or people that they cater to to interact together and to be interoperable essentially allowing for one block chain to trigger events in another block chain which would in fact allow this interoperability that so much of us has been sort of talking about in that has been defined as one major problem in in the blockchain spaces how do we get block chains to interact

together and so polka dot the white paper came out a few days ago it was written by Gavin wood who was famously one of the cofounders of aetherium and I think this is probably one of the first times that you know the meet the blockchain of cryptocurrency media will try to did I SEC this so I hope we get it right because it is very fundamental so I'd like for you reaching out to explains of your vision of what polka dot is and what it's trying to solve fundamentally so we kind of seed us as the internet of prop shines if we look at the Bitcoin blockchain and kind of

see it as a database as a tea centralized database and we look at a theorem and kind of see it as a world computer as a decentralized computer and and you have all these different variations of it like scenario and all of this kind of other computer like structures then we can see polka dot us as the layer which finally connects all of these computers and databases so in a sense what you're trying to say is that we fundamentally have a sort of a

coordination problem among among among these different blocks inside so historically when we when you look at our industry we have we have kind of thought in terms of there's going to be one individual blockchain initially with Bitcoin we said okay there's going to be one individual blockchain and one individual currency to rule them all you know everything else is going to perish there's gonna be one blockchain is with this one currency and it will be the blockchain quote-unquote right that's where we started that's where our industry started then came is helium and helium it said okay we don't want to be really thought of as a blockchain if we want to be

thought of as a world computer so it's it's a it's a blockchain that is generally enough to really be thought of as a computer and although it's helium never said it explicitly when you say world computer you assume that this is going to be one single one of them because only if there's one single network like a theorem does it become the world computable if there's like hundreds of them then there are hundreds of these right so somewhere intrinsically we was thinking okay there's got to be one big one giant world computer and now with with polka dot the way I interpret your statement Ritu is is saying like we have to kind of cast aside these ways of thinking that there's gonna be one winning

network one winning blocks in one winning world computer but rather think where's that there are going to be a lot of different consensus computers or there going to be a lot of different block chains and they are all going to sort of coordinate together with each other work together with each other and they're going to form a network of block chains and this network of block chains will be singular like this will be the fundamental unit by which kind of our our industry is organized right would you agree with that I definitely would agree like that there will be different computers different data bases as they're already or now I think that's

it's a good pointer that I think it's unlikely that there will be one winning chain to rule them all but there will be different chains with different abilities and different use cases so I think and and like all other credit goes to Karen like I think that the genius of his proposition is is how loosely he defines basically what can be included into this network so it doesn't even have to be I mean essentially it just needs to be a data structure that is validated and globally coherent and then it can be included so it can even be a private chain it can be a consortium chain it can be you know

chain with proof of proof of state proof of authority it's it's interesting yeah so before I show we were kind of discussing different ways in which kind of we could explain this general concept itself and we thought of a different analogous light it like Rito came up with one and low G and I came up with another so one way to think of it is the way that kind of kind of kind of Rito Rito is going to use during this show it is that notion that in the beginning we had like computers right like so the computer industry for since the nineteen fifties until the nineteen eighty is probably they were individual computers right and then for the first time with

the notion with the development of TCP and IP you kind of built a network of computers where processes running on one computer could communicate two processes running on another computer and we built the network in which all of the computers in the world could just be plug in plugged into and then the idea is you start to think of an individual blockchain as an analog of a fifth 1950s a 1980s computer which is like I understand alone not able to interact with other blockchain networks and now the idea behind polka-dot is hey can we build this new network that allows all of these block chains to kind of coordinate amongst each other to run

processes that are shared between blockchain so something happens here something happens another blockchain something happens on other blocks in something is triggered on other blockchain things like this that's one analogic and then the other analogy we kind of came up with is this kind of problem has been solved by other kinds of technologies as well so because I am from a biology background the way I think of it is that if some of you know that like in biology we have sense right so the human body is made up of cells and if you go back to the history of biology in the form of evolution theory then the cells were invented like three and a half billion years ago and

then for the next around three billion years the world only had like single cells these were like bacteria and these were like archaea they were the different kinds of cells that existed in the world and like 600 million years ago roughly it would take few hundred million years few tens of millions of years these cells learned how to coordinate with each other like work together to form organisms that consisted or not of one cell but like of multiple cells one of the fundamental you know inventions that biology did was the invention of the nervous system so if you think of in your nervous system your brain and spinal cord what it's allowing you to do is there are cells in your in your in your feet and there are

cells in your hand and these two need to coordinate in order to do something right and you know the system solves this coordination problem for these cells the leg can do something send a message to these cell of the hand and can do something cells send the message to the son of the leg so this coordination problem was solved for cells this coordination problem was solved for computers and here we are kind of asking the question can you solve this coordination problem sending information between block chains for block chains right so that's what we're going to be talking about right Lito do you have anything to add to add to that or perhaps you could develop your analogy of networks of block chains

further yeah I think that there can be a lot of analogies drawn and in a way like we I mean like yeah you kind of mentioned it already the way can I see it is like if if we go back 60 years in history then or fixed 60 or so years in history then we cannot see this big old clunky databases kind of developed by IBM and big as houses and tennis history progresses we see current they get they improve a lot these databases and finally we kind of get to

Computers so essentially we add logic on top of these databases and get computers and then we go further a bit in history and and we have all these different computers and essentially the invention of the internet comes up and we connect these computers together and in a way it's it's it looks somewhat similar in the blockchain space so we kind of start with databases so it mean if we if we look at Bitcoin as a database which is very secure but also has kind of is it's room for improvement and and we kind of

go a bit further in history there and we kind of have the next big peak which is kind of in my opinion a theorem where we have this concept of database and we add logic on top of it the genius of italic poettering and now it really feels to me like like we move a bit further and now we're at this other peak very kind of we see all these different databases and all these different computers with all these different functionalities and now we can connect them so and and in in a way it's it's in a way it feels like I mean if you look at traditional computers and it

feels to me like the last big invention in in traditional computers was kind of the Internet I mean we had we had a lot of you know we have a ai and we have you know super high performance small computers called mobile phones and they have all these things but it feels to me like the last big invention was the Internet and in a way this might signal in a bit philosophical way but in a way this might signal the last big peak of innovation in in the blockchain space as well so now we start to connect them that there still will be so much room for

and all of these great features will come but it might be the last big logical step for a while it's fascinating how you talk about it as a big peak in the space like the space is only what eight years old and already we're talking about perhaps like coming to the end of innovation in this space it you know if you compare that to the Internet where does it take 50 60 years before that happened and sort of you know the computer is coming together and come and participating in the network which is the Internet well what I like about that analogy is that what the internet did essentially is it standardized communication between all of these systems that were very

unstandardized were very different and very incompatible and the internet sort of enabled Stander's to to emerge and now you have different types of processors right so you have Intel or like ARM chips or any type of internet of things connected device which is running on some other type of chips that to communicate with each other through these standards that are well establishing the industry but 20 30 years ago like that was not a given and that's what so the internet and tcp/ip e

enabled and I see this as that leap right with blockchains is this network protocol that would enable for a standardization at the communication level to occur not standardization of features you know because like CPUs like processors computers whatever each of them has their own functionality and and and that's important but we need to have a common language of common protocol that enables secure efficient and fluid communication between them and this is the as as I start to construct my mental model around this this is how I I'm

seeing it let's take a break to talk about the ledger nano as the new flagship hardware wallet by Leger I'll pass it over to the ledger CTO Nicola Becca who can tell you all about ledger security features and SDK so let your nano as is a personal security device based on the secure element screen and button so that you can verify everything that is done on the ice and make sure that you are really doing what you want it to do compared to our previous solutions this device is based on the latest generation secure element CSD 31 from st michael the SE 31 ism is using a secure arm core which means that you can add the same ease of development that you would have on a generic microcontroller but benefit from the

security features of a secure element security features include an application firewall at the lowest levels that let you protect application from each other which means that you can load multiple application and the hardware wallet even post issuance and you as a developer will be able to leverage these features to load your own application without our authorization and without any kind of authorization from the window we will be providing this device with an open SDK that let you do anything you want with this device we provide sample applications for crypto currencies different cryptocurrencies or Bitcoin ATM we will also provide a fiber Authenticator and you will be free to add everything you like for example you

could add some secure messaging some encrypted chat and you'll see that the solution is quite powerful and very easy to develop with the Nano s sets the new standard in Hardware wallet security and usability you can get yours today at ledger wallet comm and when you do be sure to use the offer code epicenter to get 10% off your first order we'd like to thank ledger for their support of epicenter so let's perhaps dive in a little deeper I think we've you know sort of cover the the analogies of what this looks like and what this enables let's talk about some of the core components of poccadot and I think it's important to define two

the core components one is the polkadot chain itself which in the white paper is called a relay chain and essentially that's what it does it relays communications between different blotching networks which in the polkadot context are called para chains so could you expand on that place sure so maybe maybe we start with para chains so para chains are essentially defined as validate able globally coherent dynamic data structures which kinda has you know Bitcoin like block chains with us which has a theorem like block chains it has which has a consortium like or even private private

chains like it kind of encompasses all of them because all of them are validated and all of them are globally coherent so essentially if we see these para chains as data structures and data structures can also be computers or in the in the analogy could be like a smart smartphone or like a high-performance computer a very secure computer and and we kind of lock them in to the network and then it's kind of we need to have this this TCP or or essentially we need to have some sort of layer that they can kind of talk to each other and this kind

of layer of of talking to each other as you start correctly is the relay chain so the relation essentially relays information from one chain or from one data structure to another that's a great start right so there are the appellate chains and then their relay change so you think of it like para chains you're getting a sense or organs real a chain is like yours like a spinal cord that relays messages between communications between between them right now let's kind of start imagining on on a deeper level what happens inside a para chain so perhaps we could start with imagining like just one paradeen

work individually and could you explain to us who are the important participants in one parity network and what their responsibilities are so essentially if we start at a park chain and we said they need to be validated and globally coherent essentially valid data beliefs is Canada need to be some sort of state transition function or in other words there needs to be some mechanism to check whether or not the next block makes actually sense and sense can't just be like whether or not connects between like within some standards of

bookkeeping like if somebody just wants to add a million to his or her account that essentially would break these standards of bookkeeping and then the block wouldn't be valid so that that's that's essentially what is meant by state transition function so okay if we start at the parrot chain then we have the participant called collator and what the collator does is essentially he or she runs a full note of this parrot chain and just kind of delivers block to validators and and validators are participants in polka dot which kinda just apply this date

transition function on this incoming block so they just kind of so this is in order that validators don't have to have a full node of each block chain or of each parrot chain they just kinda need to have this this state transition function so so they only need to kind of validate if the next step or the next block actually makes sense so and Canada's validators are all split into subgroups and each subgroup and randomly selected and each subgroup is kind of responsible for one part of chain so it kind of starts with subgroups they validate all the transition of all the

per chance and then it's kind of once this happened it's kinda it tries to seal it into one relay block which is kind of from all the subgroups into one relay work let's let's kind of kind of break down what you said I think what you what he said is like a great summary of the system right and we'll try to kind of break break break this thing down by taking a couple of examples so you started off with this notion of there being a pair of chain and these participants in the para chain which you called eco laters right so let's let's imagine that that there is like one para chain we for purpose of simplicity we'll

call it Perich n1 or p1 right now now p1 if p1 I looks pretty much like etherium right it has the same functionality and etherium and let's say rato you and I are the Co laters for for p1 and there's already been a million blocks in p1 right and now a new block needs to be added million and meaning in first block so how does this block get added and what do we do in the in the process of adding the million in first block in b1 the polka dot network with kind of vote on whether or not to include this new pair of chain and once this is approved

essentially you indict the collectors of this parrot chain would supply the information to validators yeah and essentially validator supply state transition function check if everything makes sense and yeah you know once this happens for for all the parrot chains gets into a relay chain block and kind of included into the relay chain so one thing I think is perhaps are important to to define the validators essentially if we think of traditional mountain blockchains today that the

miners or stakeholders or whatever validating node we have has this role of a co-leader and a validator in one they they collect transactions and build the blocks and submit the blocks to be validated by the network in in this in this configuration those roles are separated so we have the role of the co-leader who assembles transactions to be sent to a valid air and that validator does the work that let's say like a miner or proof of stake validator or any and like if we take like tender mint like a validator in tournament they add the block to the network is that an

accurate representation maybe maybe we need to introduce that there's also the concept of nominator okay so essentially I would see validators as analogy of a mining pool and nominators are people who have a stake in polka-dot but just kind of want to nominate a validator to kind of do the validating on behalf of them so these people who probably be considered as the miners the validator has the mining pools and the colliders just as the people who can run off on full note who do the heavy work

essentially delivered the data so these validators are not individual to one paradeen right so we imagine this one parish in p1 and the two of us were collectors to this and then we might in further imagine another pair a chain like P 15 and Sebastian and Mona will be the colligative curators for this so if you have like two different power chains P 1 and P 15 how will the validators like who selects the validators for these pair jeans and how are the validators emission selected at all the validators are selected randomly into these subgroups

so that there's kind of two steps of validation there is the validation of the individual power chain there's Canada validation of the overall really or of the overall polka-dot networks it's kind of two times validating so really if you've kind of you've walked through this concept of the para chain and they're being cool aters inside the perigee and then we introduce like a new party which is the validator right so can you tell us who is a validator how is the global pool of validators created and then further what kinds of interactions exist between validators

essentially a validator is can be seen as as participants who who keep the network secure essentially people who put stake like staking dot tokens underlying tokens of polka dots and bind them to the network essentially with kind of outing with these tokens for their accuracy of what they validate so if they don't validate accurately connect their stake is it is in danger these people will be selected according to was taking pricing algorithm so the network needs to incentivize these people that they put stake into the

network like this the same way as in a proof-of-work network that needs to be an incentive for people to buy hardware and to actually mine and it's the same here so that the selection that the selection process will be yeah essentially an algorithm which kinda has as inputs like how much does a person want in return for their stake and how much stake is this person actually willing to commit and then once once we have a set of validators which as of now probably is 144 these set of validators need to be grouped

into subgroups so that they can kind of validate the individual para chains and this grouping is done randomly so what you're in a sense trying to say is that there is this central drill a chain that is essentially like a coordination chain that helps with the task of coordination and the relay chain has this native asset which is dot right so just as the Bitcoin blockchain has a native asset which is Bitcoin the currency is helium ether the currency polka dot relay chain has a native acid which is dot right the unit is called a dot and now this dot is like freely tradable on the exchanges

like any currency but but once once let's say a holder like let's say brine like let's say he owns a lot of dot units so let's say there's a million-dollar units and Tyne owns so this hundred mil dot units and Pyun owns let's say two million of them then Brian can essentially stake his dot units in order to become a validator so he hands the work control of these dot units to the network in exchange he kind of becomes a validator and then he can validate not only the relay chain but some of the data of the para change themselves and we'll walk into how how how that happens so different

participants different owners of dots can kind of deposit their thoughts and become validators and this defines the global pool of validators right is that right yeah exactly okay the Rays magic word is dot d ot head over les talkback cuenta con to sign in enter the magic word and claim you're part of a listener award one thing that I'd like to make clear as a new pair chain let's imagine that there's a pair of chain there's a polka dot network and it is made up of n

chains and there's there are many validators and it's it's secure as III I want to create a new pair of chain I want to create a new chain specific to a use case that let's say let's say I want to build a block chain for the fringe insurance industry and I want to participate in the polkadot Network what what type of considerations would I have to make whether technical ideological in the construction of my block chain what I have to make in order to participate in this network so I guess the analogy is if I take the internet if I want an Internet connected device I have to

adhere to a certain set of standards which is you know tcp/ip I have to have a network card that is compatible with tcp/ip and software and like so there's the whole stack that allows my computer to communicate with the network if I'm constructing a pair of chain and I want to participate in the polkadot Network what are the considerations I have to make to do that that's another really feel really in my opinion really a beautiful thing about this proposal ok so I see ok if we take a theorem and and we look at it as a computer and then we take small contracts on this computer I

mean smart contracts on this computer can then kind of be seen as software running on this computer so essentially with polka dot it's just a matter of downloading some software like the analogy would be like a browser and then you are connected so so polka dot has this concept of break in and break out contract and essentially this break in and break out contracts or yeah enable this communication so even even with existing pair of jeans you just download essentially the browser software and then you're connected so this this

software would need to let's take a concrete example like let's say I'm building a permission tender and style network or maybe hyper ledger right like a permission network using one of these permission protocols I would have to include libraries that would that would speak the the polkadot protocol and include those libraries in my smart contracts is that I would see it differently I would see it as a special contracts themself that have some special locking functionality so if you send the transaction to them they omit

locks and these locks are then picked up by the relay chain so this is this is this is like the break out so if you want to send a transaction that goes beyond tender mint you just send it to this one contract and then it gets picked up by the relay chain and the relay chain sees that okay this transaction wants to get out and within these locks they're essentially or within this transaction that essentially the destination pair of chain and and the information it should contain the other way is with so called break in contracts but essentially in the break in contract it validates if the

transaction actually you know it checks but whether or not the transaction actually has been validated by the polka dot validators so maybe we could take an example around this so let's say let's imagine to parish in so doing this parish in one the two of us three in two and I you we are the Eco laters for this and then there's 13:15 and Mona and Sebastian are the kilometers for that and somewhere on the background there is like 144 validators of the relay chain Network and like say let's say Brian and Gavin and dr. Gavin wood Gavin two of these validators right so you know you have kind of personalize these now now fundamentally what what needs to be done is some there has to be

some way to exchange some message that might be starting from perish in 15 so Mona and Sebastian's chain and then it has and that message needs to be processed by US which is Peres chain one right so explain to us like how would that happen what is the difficulty in making this work and how would that happen on the relay team we need to make two differentiation here shoot the transaction go directly to the other parent chain or for the code to the relay chain and then maybe from the really chain to the power chain I think but what you're asking is that direct

route no let's let's take let's take the indirect route from from the village into the barge okay from the power chain to the relay chain it essentially would be a special break out either contractor account depending on the blockchain capabilities and this break out account or contract would essentially emit clocks that are picked up by the relay chain so there is a chain kind of recognizes that some something wants to get out and essentially it's yeah it will be picked up what is called a crest transaction queue

yeah and this way essentially it's it goes from the para chain to the relay chain and then from the relation to the destination chain it would just be that a validator sign of the distance action wants to get in and in the break in contract on the other pair chain there essentially would need to be this is in built that can validate the validators you know like an EC recover function essentially yeah checks that this actually has been signed by the validators and they saw it that's included so we've talked about how new networks would be able to onboard polka

dot so in my previous example we know one industry specific permission blockchain can you talk about how easy or complicated it would be for existing networks such as Bitcoin or aetherium to onboard and participate in the polka dot network sure certainly any kinds of proteins that have some sort of smart home smart contract capability it will be quite straight forward for Bitcoin essentially did the problem that needs to be solved is candidate on Bitcoin that needs to be a way to validate you know that that the transaction has been signed by maybe 3040 validators and that as of now is quite difficult for Bitcoin

okay so it's it's a problem with multi signatures then being limited to a certain number of of signing parties yes that's how I understand it so then in that case it would require Bitcoin to for the protocol to to evolve and in a way that it could it could handle a large amount of multi signature like a multi stage scheme where you have potentially like 30 or 40 signing parties which would represent the validators yes okay let's take a short break to talk about Jax Jax is a multi coin wallet created by the people at the central now in the past if he had a

whole bunch of cryptocurrencies it was a pain to handle them you either had to leave them on an exchange which was insecure or you had to have all these different wallets which was a hassle fortunately now with Jax knows medieval days of darkness misery and suffering are over Jack supports multiple cryptocurrencies and new ones are being added but it's not just storing cryptocurrency so you can do with Jack's but you can also exchange directly from with inside the wallet thanks to their shape-shift integration and since there's only one seat Jack's makes it super easy to backup and sync to your other devices Jack's works with Windows Mac OS Linux Android iOS and has browser

extensions for Firefox and Chrome so go to Jack Co that's J a double X Co to download the wallet and get started today we'd like to thank Jack's for the support of epicenter so at this point I would like to become out of the technical discussion and bring it to a higher level in terms of use cases and what this enables so I'd like to get your thoughts perhaps Mona you can address this on what use cases or what new types of business models the polka dot network would would enable in the broader scheme and this with a broader vision of a world with you know thousands perhaps millions of

blockchains if we go back to the analogy of thinking about this as an Internet or something that connects these different databases or networks together one of the big advantages you have all of these transactions being decentralized or the relay chain being a decentralized process is that it's very secure so it might not be as fast as a an exchange of information on the internet but it's extremely secure and so the biggest value or the biggest use case I see for this would be exchanging things of value across chain and so when you think about that then it kind of starts to make sense why we as mellon port who are

building a protocol and software for asset management were so fascinated and exciting excited when we heard or when Gavin opened up to us about the polkadot paper because it solves a really big problem for us we've been building melon on aetherium for a while now but one of the big limitations we had and one of the things people kept asking us is how are you going to deal with assets on other chains if you want to truly be decentralized and for it for us polka dot really opens up this opportunity and it's kind of why we wanted to make it happen faster so that we could we could sort of deploy melon on polka-dots essentially from day one list I've been perhaps dive into melon and so that what what what

you're trying to solve with melon and and I'd like to to explain essentially what melon is and what you're trying to do is being able to transfer assets or transfer value from one blockchain let's say like Bitcoin to another blockchain like for instance descent decentralized capital euro pegged token or from an ethereal contract token you know which represents some sort of asset to like a private chain that represents some sort of other asset and you needed to have a protocol

or what you were missing was a protocol that would enable this this transfer of value from one blockchain to another can you can you talk about that in the context of melon and the business that you're building there how pair change solves that problem so actually the the melon protocol itself is a protocol that basically enables people to set up funds in a in a kind of non-negotiable way so it standardizes performances so you can start to compare different fund managers or portfolio managers and it also stops the embezzlements of funds so just like the e theorem and bitcoin protocol stop people being able to transfer a million dollars from one account to another the Mellon protocol stops a fund manager

just being able to transfer that money to his or her private another another account friends account or whatever so that's the set up process and then there's this kind of management process so we I think this is the first proposition at least that I know off to set up and manage decentralized ones but our limitation was that in order to stay completely decentralized you have to the only thing you can keep in those portfolios which by the way there's a lot of unchain tokens on aetherium but the real idea becomes a lot bigger when you can start to gain exposure in those portfolios two assets on other chains and maybe if digital assets become more mainstream potentially one

day on private chains or consortium chains and and possibly not just limited to tokens and currencies but maybe one day you'll be able to hold intellectual property or anything you can really imagine in these portfolios so this this polka dot element kind of really unlocks this for us because mellon starts to become a much bigger idea in terms of an asset management proposal that's a very interesting concept so the way I'm kind of thinking of it is so some melon melon the the project itself is enabling like fund managers who who basically specialize in figuring out which places

to invest money in set up their portfolio so what a portfolio means is okay there's like imagine like the smart contract system where you can you can get investors to invest in your portfolio and then you will buy other assets on their behalf and then when the other assets appreciate some of these returns are fed back into this investor and all of these interactions are managed by a smart contract system right now in a sense like a really good asset management smart contract system would enable the fund manager to invest in a wide variety of assets like like for example if I open a brokerage account in in the United States then maybe I can as

a fund manager investing like 5,000 different shares of different companies so you you want a lot of assets to be enabled for fund managers and a global network like polka-dot gives you exactly that kind of reach because there are lots of lots of different blockchains lots of different assets and then these fund managers would be able to hold all of these in their portfolios exactly mater you've got it yeah so it's it's it's the reach but it's also I mean we also profit from extent the same way you know this this internet can connect different computers with different abilities kind of be as the

melon project can also kind of utilize this if if we have if we want to have like if we want to have our product hole and a chain that has zero knowledge proof we might or we can essentially just take the idea that is the protocol and just implement it and deploy it on this computer on this chain essentially giving our users the option to now have this these portfolios with zero knowledge proof and not kind of dilute the tokens because it's all kind of the tokens are kind of on the network so there so that there is no conflict of interest there but yeah that we can use

I guess to summarize it's all about giving the user a choice and not limiting the user in any in any way so enabling them to invest in as many assets as possible and also to deploy set up and deploy their funds on any any network they may choose in future because if we go back to analogies that we discussed in future some people if you're setting up a high frequency fund you may you may choose a network or a blockchain that can can handle high frequency trading if you're mostly concerned about privacy you might choose a different kind of blockchain and so by having this flexibility we kind of overcome this and become more neutral

and just allow the user to decide how they want to deploy their portfolio and you can think of melon at this stage as an idea that can be deployed on any network which has the flexibility to do so because of poccadot that's all really really interesting so can you walk us through like we have walked to these two concepts one is like the pork or network and then there's one application of the polka dot network which would be designed as asset management in the form of melon so can you walk us through like how you are planning to develop these concepts further because as I see like polka dot is kind of a theoretical concept that was there is a paper my doctor Gavin wood and that you yourself have a paper around how decent

lettuces management would work on his helium how does this get translated into reality in the future sure I think the idea is that we recognize there are certain elements such as deciding on for example the exact consensus mechanism or you know the exact inflation to build into some of these tokens etc that need to be further researched and rather than rush them I think the first thing we'll do is enter into a research and visit feasibility study together with with parity technologies the idea is that we have a contribution period coming up soon where we'll issue tokens in both dot and Mellon and and

the initial goal with these funds is to start with a feasibility study and kind of veto veto and our team to work very closely with parity technologies and in terms of finalizing some of these details and making sure we approach everything from from from the right place and once we complete this feasibility study and conclude that it will be possible we'll continue with the we as in melon port we'll continue with the development of melon protocol to a phase 2 where we hope to be able to go live and then we will enter into a

development agreement with parity technologies to launch the the polka-dot to build the book or network which we will then deploy with melon onto it and a Genesis block ok so so this as a this as I understand it is like in order to execute the development of of both of these technologies you're gonna have this contribution period where you solicit contributions from various people around the world do you have any timelines on when when this would happen and what shape that would take sooner than later I would probably say the exact date hasn't been finalized

although I think we'll be announcing more information on that very shortly the contribution period will probably last about eight weeks we were probably melon port will facilitate the smart contract that enables the contribution period and will probably be packaging the two tokens together because we think it's a very obvious fit that you sort of build the network and have the application side by side so we'll package the tokens together and and once we we raise a certain amount of crypto funds we will enter into the plan that I just discussed with you great well we're definitely looking forward to that

hearing more news about the development of melon port as a project and also of poccadot as a network it was hard to to construct this in a way that and that is understandable but I I hope that our listeners find that we've dissected this this concept in a way that is digestible and that you'll be able to understand and I'm sure in the coming days and weeks they'll be articles and other podcasts coming out you know that you can also watch or listen to a read that will help you you know also gain your gain gain more knowledge about poker talk because I think it's a really

fascinating idea that we were only starting to begin to see what the implications are what ramifications might be in the future so I could luck to you both on on these very ambitious projects congratulations on making it so easy to understand round 2 well I hope so and thanks again for agreeing to come on a second time we kind of bashed it the first time and an hour I think I think we've got something solid that people will be able to fully comprehend so so thanks for coming on and thank you to our listeners for tuning in we are part of less topic or network you can find lots of great shows on Bitcoin

blockchain technologies decentralized technologies like good stuff let's talk Bitcoin comm yeah you can find us at epicenter TV or youtube.com slash epicenter BTC and you can also find us wherever you get your podcast whether that the iTunes SoundCloud or any podcasting app so thanks so much for tuning in and we look forward to being back next week