Retail Activity, Oasis and AI Gaming, the AI Creator Takeover | Analyst Round Table

Transcript

one takeaway I got one takeaway because you mentioned it real quickly around different platforms I think we're going to see some weird stuff we're going to see an agent with that goes crazy on only fans we're going to see an agent that goes crazy on YouTube um I think it'll happen we'll see some we'll see some like top creators that are not people basically nothing said on zerox Research is a recommendation to buy or sell Securities or tokens this podcast is for informational purposes only and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions not Financial advice pachio Ryan and our guests May hold positions in the company's funds or projects discussed what's up guys

welcome back to another episode of zerx research today I've caught Danny offard and it's just going to be me and him um I don't know what the hell we're gonna talk about to be honest with you typically I lean on Ryan a bit because he like Waits 20 seconds before answering but yeah it's all up in the air today you you pulled me aside you said hey just you and me today bud and uh here we are it's a busy time um I think everyone's super busy I I've been know I I barely get any sleep now just people are I mean people are excited for good reason the Market's been very very hot um there's been a lot of a lot of news like it's like news article after

news article you know yeah Trump speaking with you know this Tech CEO or that CEO we're talking about this cabinet appointment um he's not even in office yet and yet like post elction there's been so many kind of crazy stories um well I mean the other one the other day um sounds like in plans or in talks to buy backed um which I think sent sent the related stock up on quite a run um which is a bit funny but um yeah there's just a ton of stuff going on I think uh and rightfully so people are they're either in the trenches or they're like just trying to keep up and it's crazy yeah I um like you said a lot of headlines

seeing some weird headlines man I saw something about um Goldman Sachs and xrp and hadera um just like random rumors and I guess what I want to ask is do you think um Trad fight is behind like there's obviously very like upto-date Trad fight but do you think some of just fall for like the xrp over like going to change the banks of the world or do you think do you think it's just like some random rumor yeah in this particular case I don't know if that's I don't know if that's the reason or if it's just you know they're seeing maybe just a combination of factors around like

seeing the success of Bitcoin and then obviously there is you know existing Bitcoin ETF you know we have this eth ETF as as well um and then just kind of seeing the excitement in the markets um maybe they're wanting to position themselves to like capture a larger part of that that pie going forward I mean this is entirely speculative but like I don't think that like the guys at Goldman are like man xrp is the future I mean that seems pretty unlikely because I don't think anyone in this space likely thinks that maybe outside of that team um but if it's more of a question of like I mean if that's if you know xrp has if you pull up the chart I mean it it's done pretty well um

recently so I mean if these are assets that like people want to trade um it's really the same story as like Bitcoin is like you know I think the this community has kind of been clamoring for it and like to finally get ETFs um and for them to see massive flows like that's just a signal to these institutions that like people want to buy these products um so to get the like I mean not that we have the regulatory Clarity yet but it's like I think basically there I think there's a lot of expectation that like the the kind of SEC pressures around a lot of these you know ETF creations and listings um are going to go away in a trump environment um I think they're they're just looking down that list of like well what's next um and going forward that makes sense I think I I

also brought it up because um like you said xrp has been I think it outperformed e in one day um like whatever e was done year to date um yeah that's why I brought it up I I think this is a rumor um but Mark could always give some form of legitimacy to this and I think xrp probably also did well I hate that I started this pod with xrp but they also have like like I I really regret it now um they also have ETF files and stuff I'm just like I think we're at Das um I think maybe the other thing to consider like xrp was one of a few coin like projects tokens Etc

however you want to refer to it that were under the like kind of grip like of the SEC for like you know they were in that lawsuit for years and years um and I think you know as part of that story like when they were kind of winning portions of that case like you saw action in The Token but I think to see the whole regime shift now of like that no longer being a factor I I think it just lifts like a massive what historically has been like a years on-end burden um for that project just due to the the regulatory pressures there um I you know there's a little bit of like reason to the to the madness um I think you could look at something like Dogecoin and be a bit more like in awe

at the rise of the token purely on like a you know Department of government efficiency and like you know Trump and Elon being best buddies type of thing you know it's a bit more it's it's a bit crazier to see something like that just add you know 40 billion in market cap over a few weeks yeah it's ridiculous um yeah it's what you said makes a lot more sense that like the regulatory is Shifting and they've historically had issues with the SEC and it's not like rumor um but I will say one thing retail I'm retail you're retail um but like true true retail is have you seen those Tik toks where it's like I bought like 20 bucks of whatever Pepe

and it's like I now have 240,000 Pepe which means that if Pepe goes to $1 I have $240,000 and like that and it's and people are like oh like like throughout the bear people said okay retail cares about unit bias um and they like memes they like the funny dogs but you know what else retail loves they love cardono and they love xrp for some reason like you know what I mean they like they love that crap they like it way more than etherum Sol Etc it's like those guys um for some reason they they fall for the $582 xrp and like Charles hoskinson is Gonna Change the World which he might because he's like he's in conversation or is going to work

with apparently allegedly he's going to work with um the Trump Administration I don't know I've just like this past few weeks have like I was very involved throughout the bear um and the the past few weeks have past maybe like month has been very very different um when people were like oh it's PVP now it's going to become like PVE I was like ah you know like if it was just like that the whole time I think it was fine um but you can really really feel like a huge shift in the way that the market is and the market dynamics work not that retail has a lot of money obviously the big money is still institutions um but St like coins that

are meant to hit like five mil Max are now hitting like 15 mil um Mark cap like even memes in everything I mean goat ran up ridiculous like people are just bidding stuff if I pull up the ai6 Z chart right now it I don't know if you've saw it but it's like now there's a dip but it was like there's no entry you can't enter you just have to like spray and prey basically there nothing legit there like yeah the past the past week for week or two for m there's been a lot of tokens that like you're saying are just like rocket ships to the moon like they just the chart they they look insane it's like um but yeah I think it plays into like what we're seeing just

people are getting they're getting super super amped up they're like oh man risk is back on I need to you know I gotta buy all the coins Etc you know I think it's the people it's the people the opposite of what you're describing that um you know if you haven't been sitting around in the you know the research and the deep in the chain trenches for the past year and a half two years like you're not then you're probably you're not sitting in these positions that you've been like you know kind of looking after and curating and like deciding what you want to be allocated to um all the all the people that have not done that are like I have I have dollars like clearly they think it's like Risk on season now and they're like looking for where they need to put their

dollar yeah yeah um we'll get some more serious stuff in a sec but I I have a question because I just thought about it do you have any rules for yourself that you're like if this happens I have to do this or like anything that you're like you always follow through with I do have not like they're not so hardcoded but um I think for me like the one the one that like I do actually do is when I feel like I want to like screenshot the portfolio or like a p&l or something like I have to sell some have to sell some because the clearly there's something going on that's that's driving me to want to do that um and I think the

other part of it is like if I screenshot that and then like the next week that number is no longer that number like I'm gonna you you start building those like emotional feelings around what should not be so emotional so I think that's one for me the cycle I think the biggest thing is um I don't know some people wait themselves to like price targets and what what whatnot other things um I think personally there are just like dollar values that like will meaningfully impact my life to where if there's that if I'm if there's that much money on the table for me like I I have to take some of it out not that I'm gonna say any specific numbers out loud but I just mean like you know if you're

a person who had $100 and then all of a sudden there's a million in the wallet and like you don't make very much money like it it just makes sense at every I think at a point for basically anyone it just makes sense at some point that you have to take some chips off the table and not be like risking the whole thing and I think the main reason why we see like just so much craziness is that people don't follow that advice at all they're just they they get excited and then they're like well I just need to shove right now because look how crazy everything just did the last week and then and then the market goes down and then they're struggling to decide like well do I hold or whatever um you know there are points where the the the money is so much to

you personally that like you need to you need to consider that and take some of that out yeah I completely agree with that the first one's very important I I don't do a lot of p&l screenshots um but I have the basic I I have the same rule but it's if I am um if I'm like adding or replying to like if I called not called but but like if I mention that take care or like a coin in a chat that I'm in with my friends and I like go back to it and I like reply to it I'm like oh this went up um because I won't do it for like anything but like I will do it if it goes up a lot I'm like yeah I got to take some off it doesn't make any sense like like you said there's something in your brain that is

and a lot of the market is like just you fighting yourself anyway it's not like like I don't know trading is obviously difficult and like buying and selling stuff is difficult investing is difficult like there's a lot but it's also a lot is like you fighting versus um constantly shifting price Target is a big one um I think a lot of people struggle with that one yeah yeah I think especially it's difficult in this market especially you know when valuations for things can be so out of touch with like traditional valuation models or Premia like you know you you you might be talking about something that trades 100 or thousand times

revenue or sales or something so it's like you know a target from that perspective may not mean so much as just like the momentum and the sentiment around the thing um and that goes especially true for me points right like there's nothing there you're just you're trading the attention you're trading you're trading the you know the excitement around it so um yeah a lot of it just comes down to like personal feeling at that point so it's it's hard to put like hard and fast rules around any of that stuff but I do you start when you have that personal feeling of like you're like staring at the balance and like you like keep looking at this number over and over again it's like giving you this a certain feeling like may maybe you need to consider you know taking some of that

out for sure um another one is I I changed my the way I'll say this and then we'll switch I want to talk about AI agents and gaming a bit but I listen to different music if I'm like like based on whatever the market is doing this isn't even like about a specific coin or like trading rules but it's like sometimes I find that the March top for for example 2024 martop I was only listening to Lil Baby in future like literally I was only listening to those guys um and that's when you have to be like okay you know Euphoria is setting in um my producer is going to love that one I think um I think I like it yeah AI agents

um I did a prime piece but I think I want to talk more not AI your bit is not agents but I want to talk to you about Oasis um and I guess like what it means for crypto and AI in general because we look at a lot of these there's all the truth terminal Etc stuff now there's also a lot of like compute um interesting deepen stuff but one thing we don't think about a lot is AI and gaming and I uh I think it's going to be relatively big so maybe let's get your thoughts and then I can disagree I think it's interesting then you can disagree I think um it's like this it's this multi-intersection of things right I think people like what we're see seeing with just the excitement around agents and giving them wallets is people are

excited for the possibilities of just like having these autonomous things play around with blockchain um because you can't really like in the traditional Financial World it it would not be so easy to like have an agent have access to bank accounts and you know trading Terminals and brokerage accounts like that would be far more involved and probably a lot riskier um but when it comes to like permissionless blockchains it's just easier to do that um I think just adding in the gaming element like me personally I I I like to think often about um like onchain economies and how that relates to potential like web three games um I think we've really like still yet to see

um like a fantastic example of this I mean I know a lot of the like you know teams that are building now they're kind of like working towards that I mean even gonzilla is like an exciting one where you know they're trying to have this you know fully onchain Marketplace for you know skins and items for the game um that's really I think kind of the largest or the main focus of the you know the the onchain elements for for that game um but I think it's really interesting just from the perspective of like looking at games like a World of Warcraft Etc like traditional MMOs um and thinking about what those traditional in-game economies look like for players like they actually trade them like real economies um so the fact that they can be transformed into

real economies with you know actual just you know blockchain onchain um you know dexes lending protocols Etc having in-game currencies that are real onchain currencies that can be you know actually traded as as you know not just in-game resources but true true like real life resources in essence um is is an interesting idea and when you combine that up with the potential for kind of agents to get involved here here um it it's just unique intersection um when it comes to Oasis specifically um I just that particular project is is interesting from the perspective of like generative Ai and like the tools

advancing another step um beyond what we're seeing today right I think there are you know there are teams that are kind of playing around in this Arena of like merging AI with with games merging AI with blockchain um and like historical examples of not quite generative AI but um like procedural generation of Worlds have been just pretty successful just because it you know it opens up not that like the possibilities are Limitless um if you think about Minecraft like yeah you can play like technically you know an infinite like number of differently seated worlds but they kind of have a lot of the same based properties it comes down to that procedural generation feature of it um and so like after a point it's like a level of familiarity

that that like you can't really go beyond but um I think the potential to have like models and and agents that can or maybe maybe Beyond agents some some some deeper intelligence that can kind of synthesize um information related to games and worlds and actually create like unique basically do what a human does when they come up with you know a new idea for a for a game World um create that on the Fly potentially real time um and have like endlessly expanding content um is is a really interesting idea um especially in the context of like a decentralized like permissionless um kind of gaming Universe where you know you wouldn't

need to rely on a developer to like you know kind of approve those changes and deploy them if you have something like Eve Frontier where I think kind of their philosophy is to sort of build a like a foundation for a game and allow people to kind of interact with that build smart contracts Etc interact with the world how they want um to see this like generative Tech go one step further and have you you could have the potential for people to be like exploring in the world and be like the first person to explore a new area that is just like generatively being you know produced as they wander into it which I think is really interesting yeah and we're not there yet but I think you know the teams that are kind of building towards that future um is probably going to be where

the excitement is at yeah I completely agree with you I think um one thing that you said particularly resonates with me and it's that it's like infinite um I think a lot of people have trouble with AI a lot of people had trouble with AI in the early days as well and like obviously everybody does because such new tech um we don't really know how it could apply to all of these fields but and the things that we it'll do one thing let's say like it's very good at data processing and data cleaning and analyzing so we like appli that to everything in every industry we're like oh like it helps editors do this so it will also help medical data and it will also help like whatever real estate process Etc like just because of that um I think Oasis is one of those things that I saw and I

said wow this is insane the Minecraft demo by the way when I'm when I say Oasis um and like you said we'll have to see onchain economies I think that stuff is really tough because you you're really relying on like actual agentic movement um and I I'm going to I can talk a bit about that with because I I wrote uh another Prime of flash note my third one now um he loves Prime I love Prime I think it's prime time maybe um but yeah like you said I I think in general like for gaming AI agents make a lot of sense I think for money um like you said it makes sense on

the blockchain but I don't think it's because it's permissionless I think it makes sense on the blockchain because people who use the blockchain are very risk on such as like I can give it x amount of money and say use it I don't think like a regular you could do it people who are listening to this podcast just try it out you can give it some money but in the real world people aren't going to give like an an AI agent especially now it still hallucinates there's still risks involved um they're not going to give it like 30 40 bucks even and be like go do something it's it's not going to be worth it um for gaming so this is like the fifth time I'm doing this but Prime is doing wayfinder supposed to launch q1 2025 um I don't know there's nothing else

that's there's nobody else building AI agents like back when in March it was 26 2.6 bill um Prime and we didn't have any news about AI Agents from Claude anthropic open AI but now we anthropic um released Claude released some agentic workflow to order a pizza I don't know if everybody saw that um there's another browser is it Kura I think it's Kura right yeah Kura browser um chosen for ycy combinator so it's like the inlinks are there of agentic um workflows of agentic actions of AI agents more than they were in um and I

think the narrative is there like my be case for this one is people don't care and it's just like we keep betting on AI 16z type of stuff and like which is a very realistic I think be case like when I was this is the first flash note or like the first report that I wrote that I was like the bare case for this one is that nobody gives a and meme coins just keep going up because it's like it's a legit concern for I think like all utility tokens um on the positive side I think the narrative is there um I don't like the dual token model Prime prompt I can't think of any other examples but I don't think ever do particularly well because Prime is the

gaming token prompt is the AI agent token which one do you want to hold you want to hold prompt now you have to farm prompt using prime like you have to stake Prime again I don't like the supply side stuff as I say it I'm like you know what maybe not but um you have to stake Prime 45% of prompt is admitted to Prime holders that's pretty good um they have the avatars as well that are supposed to be the AI agents in game um there's way to get there's ways to get exposure to prompt and to the AI agent stuff but dual token I mean that's got to stress you out a little bit right like you have to say yeah it it adds confusion it it takes away from the individual like

value prop of each token which is is always tough to Grapple with um I think the really big thing is whether or not like the the agents in like this this game that world that they're building actually kind of provide some kind of unique experience um I think like an analogy and it's not quite the same but like people have been playing around with like using Bots to play RuneScape for them for years and obviously that's not quite the same thing as like an onch onchain agent with a wallet that's like doing things um in this like resource extracting and like trading world but in essence it it could it could be the same thing um you know if people are you know

they program Bots to do specific things you're going to talk to your agent and maybe ask it to do specific things for you um in this game world I think the real question is just GNA be like how far can they really take this experience to make it like unique and differentiated from from what's actually possible today um and how that plays out um there's like a there's there's maybe an interesting like kind of scenario here where like traditional game models you know maybe you interact with um like in-game NPCs that are like you know supplies or syncs for resources in the game but if that type of thing begins to transition over to like agents that are actually managing like a supply

of resources and you can only buy or sell from them like depending on what they've actually been able to acrw or or sell or or earn on like you know their Farm or what have you make up a make up a hypothetical World um it makes things a bit more interesting than just like hardcoded you know you can buy three of this thing from this NPC every day to you know based on the growth of the ingame economy and like people buying resources from this agent like you know he's selling you know X crop at this price today just because there's so much demand um I I I do think there's a potential where like that's just really interesting but like you're saying um we'll have to see if that goes beyond just like the kind of Niche group of people who are interested in in this

type of thing yeah that's another thing like I would I think I would really enjoy that um but I think for that you you want to be a game that is played not for 60 hours but a game that is played for like 2,000 hours you know like Sims I think would be great Minecraft I think like people who play Minecraft they I mean they obviously play other games but they they play a lot of Minecraft and people have played a lot of Minecraft for however long um you can't do that in like other I think like stardo Valley Valley would be a great one um honestly I'm a bit surprised that like what game parallel is launching it's like parallel colony is

um extraction game but not a battle royale it's your colonizing Mars through your AI agents I think that's cool um I think probably the coolest bit of that will be that these AI agents can learn from them their own mistakes and I think that will really make the difference not just for like parallel Colony but like for all AI agents in gaming is if these things can actually learn from their mistakes and learn from what they're doing such that they build some form of repertoire and some form of memories Etc um for what a s parallel says that they will um that they're like that there will be designed to do that but if it's just going to be like whatever chat GPT is like now which

is great I love chat G I love Claude but like I think I don't know I think it's it's like you also don't want to leave it too much to the gamer like to the user because obviously there's different levels of prompting for these things like you can be really good at prompting and get like max out of 98 99% out of the AI or you can be like me where I like my prompts are dog um with AI that it's like I know I'm getting like 20 25% max out of like what the AI can do or um yeah yeah we'll see I I think it depends on on kind of the desired product and user base because I think if you draw a parallel to

something a parallel to something like like a Minecraft for example like the that is it's the type of game where like it it is what the user kind of makes of it um if you want to make you know a really fancy house out of you know Stone you have to sit there and like put in the time and effort to do it versus like if you want to play the like hardcore survival aspect of it like maybe you just maybe your house is like a tiny little 4x4 you know piece of wood so um we'll see like you know maybe that optionality there is enables like more creativity and like optionality within the within the world but I think it's it's still pretty up in the air in terms of like the the kind of the full detail like we need to like see this game in

action see some people interacting with it and that's another ISS like potential issue with parallel colony and this Prime versus prompt token thing because prompt token was voted to come out q1 2025 um the game might come out much later um there's no real need for Prime at that point like if you okay you can still use it to farm but like you can just buy prompt um and probably like get a better deal than because if if Prime is only the gaming token and the game isn't out and the old game is the trading card game and everybody's expecting an AI agent game you know it might be a bit the

Divergence might be more than I think people want on the other side I will say I my flash note is a lot my report's a lot more bullish than how I am sounding right now I'm like I really really like the prime and parallel teams um Team I think like I think in crypto for AI agents though they're the only ones that I actually trust um to maybe build something relatively good uh again I'm saying it like it's bad but I like I I think they could probably do it as opposed to anybody else no other gaming team would I trust um to build it maybe like I'll eat my words and I'll be wrong and somebody else will come up with something better but for now I I think they they've done a good job

with um parallel gcg I think they're going to do a good job with parallel colony and wayfinder wayfinder is really the most interesting but though I I think like if that's the only legit AI token that's AI agent token um like I said it might be better to just buy fart coin but yeah I mean I guess it depends if you're coming from a from a gaming view then it might be different than coming at it from like a pure like bet on AI or agent technology and in that case like the real things might not be um you know might not be cryptocoins it might be you know you know private private rounds into the

large companies like anthropic that are that are building models and expanding that Tech but that's that's not really here nor there I will say yeah I mean if we want to transition into like kind of the AI X meme craze that's going on um I I think one of the biggest things that that I'll say is interesting is that you know a lot of like if you think about Andy ay who's working on like truth terminal and some of these other researchers who have kind of just been playing around with these models like these agentic um kind of designs for a bit um the the sort of like positive outcome

that like the explosive growth of these meme coins has enabled is that like a bunch of researchers have just suddenly fallen into like a backlog of funds for them to continue experimenting um and we're seeing like a quick kind of explosion of like people just spinning up agents that can now you know train and learn from one another more quickly um you know before if it's just Andy in his garage and he's got to do all the work himself like it's a very different situation when like goat is worth one billion market cap and there are like hundreds of copies of people like trying to do the same thing um and now they canot can all like talk and learn from each other and like tweet at each other

and um kind of iteratively um you know learn a little bit more um on a on a little bit quicker of a time frame I think the same the same goes for like the AI 16z stuff where you know they've been if you look at the the GitHub repo behind that stuff like they've been building these things for months if not maybe over a year um depending on some of the kind of things and uh I just think it's interesting to see that like those timelines might get significantly sped up just due to the interest that has like prompted the crypto Community to kind kind of latch on to these things whereas in a like in a more tra environment that wouldn't have happened right like they would need to sit around and write grants to get

fun from you know foundations Etc um but now you know the fact that they can just drop a token and people in this space who like I don't know I mean people who in reality just want to hyper gamble but like they can help like be a part of the the growth of these of these tools which is I think is interesting it's like a it's a positive outcome for what is somewhat of like a Mania that's going on yeah that one of the best use cases of crypto is just um smart people being able to make lots of money for whatever they want to do yeah um this is like devs specifically this is something that Bergie mentioned on the Pod um and he was like I'm surprised that we're not getting as much inflow of devs yet um

and this was back when a few a month ago maybe so AI m c hadn't started yet um and it was just about pumped off fun and they like they made whatever 200 250 mil maybe now back then it was like 150 200 um so he was like why the aren't people coming in like we have the money we can give you guys money just come and build stuff for us um and I think that's exactly like what has happened with um the AI meme coin cze and I agree with you like that was the original I think intent behind too was um to pull in AI Talent U with to emissions and incentives um it hasn't worked out that

way for Tao to to be fair I don't think a lot of great great quality people are coming in for the AI meme coin grades but um on the other hand over the past two weeks like it's changed a lot um like you said AI 16z that Eliza um GitHub repo is like it's been building for a while and I think like just that is pretty cool as well um we always assume that go ahead yeah I was going to say I think there's two things one is I think it's okay even if like naturally when things go up like profit Seekers come in and they want to

like make you know they want they want to be a part of get their hands into that pie but I think regardless like the fact that these the people building or like the some of the tools coming out like the you know there's this VV I AI Fu platform for yes and like virtuals protocol as well like for just quickly launching these like agents with Twitter access with a token Associated I think just the fact that you can they basically followed the pump fund model and so I what I think the benefit is there like as compared to pump fun where it's like sure you democratized meme creation like that's that's great now like anybody can can try to you know do a million x on a

coin um the difference here is that like the the more democratized these tools are and for like people to run experiments with them um I think that kind of that quickens the the experimentation and like Innovation set of these tools right i' I've seen for a while like there are you know there's a there's a twitch streamer I forget the name who maybe for a year or two if not longer has been playing around with this idea of like training an AI model to play video games and then also be a twitch streamer so like they trying to teach it how to play um the OSU like clicker music rhythm game um and then it would also like read its own chat and then like respond which is is interesting right um but you know a few years ago you you need to be deep in

like the weeds you got to be somewhat of like a software Dev have those chops to even consider doing that um so the fact that today these tools are becoming like a bit more widely available to where if some guy you meet on the street is like oh these AI agent things are so cool like I just want to try to spin one up and run this crazy experiment with it and like you know maybe I'll I'll build a live stream and like it'll react to specific things or we'll go around and like you know videotape my nature walks it it kind of expands that possibility set a bit more quickly like you can get a lot more like applied usage of these tools on a on a much faster um time scale versus you know just the one guy in his lab who has to like kind of

iteratively do those things one by one yeah yeah I mean if there's money to be made people are going to try and make more money on it um even like zero bro um dude we're putting out a lot of tickers today but to be fair everything is above a 100 now so we can say whatever we want um zero bro I don't know if I'm saying that right like yeah so we started off with truth coin um we start off of other stuff but let's say like the big ones um go truth terminal just regurgitating goat lore based on whatever AI agent just tweeting that out um these are the big ones in my head though correct me if I'm wrong ai6 Z and Eliza is a whole new um it's based on that GitHub it just you can just create

AI agents the fund managers this one's specifically a fund manager um based on dow. fund and then now we have zerob bro which is like making music I guess obviously like take this all with a grain of salt it could all just be Andy doing it behind the scenes everything the whole thing but um like you said there's a clear progression like when there's money to be made in crypto and devs see that developers see that teams see that Talent sees that like right now it's just memec coins but I mean the greatest use case of crypto is that people can just Chuck money at stuff um crowdsourcing like we did that GoFundMe style of stuff that's not the real crowdsourcing the crowdsourcing is the guy who doesn't really want to get a job

but has like whatever he has crazy like death skills knows what he wants to build he can just come in try something out it could work out but he can see this and um permissionless Financial Primitives yeah we're seeing the the tools that they have access to right now are like Wallets on chain and social media basically like we've given them Twitter accounts they have you know they can get in telegram chats they can see blockchains and like look at tokens and so obviously like the very quick ideas that people have are like we need to make influencers out of them and we need we need to make like the ultimate AI trading God right like analyze trading patterns to make like an AI that can

trade for itself and and like potentially make money um from tokens I think the like looking to the Future like the exciting things that to come are like expanding those potential Integrations um you know giving these things access to like other like more varied platforms I think the example you gave with zerbo like making music is interesting obviously like there was probably like quite a bit of guidance there in terms of actually putting that together up it to Spotify Etc but you can I think you can see the pipeline if you're able to like continuously plug these you know agents into more tools um like you're were saying with like the Cur browser for example like the more and more they have access to these

things like they're going to be able to figure out to do exactly that like if there's a a music making interface that they can just like you know play the piano on like it won't take too long for them to just start spitting out like full you know sets of like lyrical compositions and and and music pieces that's Etc um so I I see like that expanding further and further like we'll see more tools and people playing into those things um though clearly like building a brand and like I think people are really latching on to this idea of like building like a brand and an influencer around an agent and um you know trying to kind of ACR capital in that in that way so you we let's say we're running a fund um how do you approach the AI agent play in crypto

what's like what's top of we don't need to pick anything but like how do you approach it because in my mind I'm I'm pretty set on Prime honestly like as the midwit um I need exposure but I can't buy memes I feel like Prime is it but Prime prompt um what else do you think uh I think I think all of these are a bet on like the developers the researchers um you know you could say it's a bet on the agent But ultimately like you don't have truth terminal without Andy you don't have you know a6z Etc and all those spin-offs without actually I think maybe it's Shaw I don't I don't know the name

um and then like Zer bro is like Jeffy U and I'm sure there's others like I don't I don't know the name of everybody but um I I think ultimately like digging deep into like these Founders what are they what are they going after like what's the ambition um I've listened to some interviews of of Andy for example and he's like sounds like he's just been really interested in this Tech and like pursuing like how how to actually functionally like you know make use of these agents and like at some point potentially take the chains off and like let them do stuff um one of his his more recent interviews he talks about like giving um giving um truth terminal some kind of like legal entity um and like potential future implications of like if

they do you know bad things in the real world like can they be sued can can they sue other people like if they own Financial Assets in in these in actual Society like basically the conversation boiled down to like you know agents if they're going to kind of coexist with humans they need to have some you know repercussions to their actions if they're performing you know NE negative actions to to other people or to society so I think really the the big thing at this point is um whether it's a team if it's like the prime prompt guys or if it's like these researchers who clearly have like their eye on the ball um I think that's really what you're betting on at this point because I think if you look across the board like a lot of the agents you know they might be somewhat

different in in like their slight mannerisms or like how they interact or engage but um the bigger thing is probably just the drive and like the Forward Thinking of uh the developers in terms of like how to apply this technology or how to expand upon these models or or make these agents more interesting going forward yeah I think that's a good point I never even thought about the research just to be honest with you I was just like oh what should we buy um but yeah approaching it from that I think I think we're just like over the next few months we'll probably see the meme coins are the like on the one hand um we said like these are continuously improving but on the other hand memecoins are the easiest things to launch in crypto um and AI agent meme

coins are not particular like I'm not a researcher I could probably launch one in sometime I think you could as well yeah um not to on any of these guys they're doing really really good work some of them I don't know um but on what I more so mean is like people will I think um a lot of people are going to notice that this work is being done and that a lot of people are interested in AI agents and there's a lot of volume a lot of trading volume a lot of fees a lot of money flowing into these um and I think the next iteration or this iteration of meme coin will continue probably to do well um and to iterate on it and to like transform into other

stuff like you said they're thinking about legal implications I think different platforms would be cool I like the approach that Zer bro is taking um Jeff and Zer bro taking with um creative stuff honestly like I find this stuff cool like AI agents to me are just cool I know like most of the internet is bought um boted but I think when it's like like you put money behind it and you're like oh look I'm doing this this this I'm built on like goat SE lore or something then it like becomes interesting but on the other hand what I wanted to say is there's money flowing into this I think we see a lot of we had the original AI agent tokens Olas Aon noas um a few more I can't remember any

most of them died out um because they couldn't give a product um I think we're seeing agentic stuff from Kura and Claude And I know open a I don't know I heard I don't know Sam Alman but I heard that they're working on something for January 23 which I feel like everybody says that open AI is working on something for like oh H1 H2 um there's a lot of money flowing in I think the tides are shifting I think like the AI agent stuff we're going to start getting more and more meme coins but we're also going to start getting more and more legit second iteration crypto projects um that are focused on AI agents um I don't buy that f by the like narrative that AI agents can only

use crypto rails I think that's cope um on the other hand I also think that that narrative is going to do well and I think um I think crypto and AI agents work well together whatever you want to do like ux Improvement you want to do like we can give this thing 20 bucks to figure out what to buy we can give this um like put it in a game I think there's a lot there and I am excited to see some I guess a good protocols come out I need to I I should probably make a list and start tracking them um I'm sure all and stuff will also come out with cool stuff I just like the second iteration is always good like much much better obviously but um and new coins are good

um Prime it's it's it's still early like not to say that like you should just go buy anything but more to the point that like we'll see some of these collapse to zero we'll see some of these go to insane Heights before then collapsing to zero like I mean when we're talking about meme coins like I mean they are their namesake so you know obviously you know buying some goat like you don't you don't really have any ownership over that agent or like any claim to fame there so um yeah I think we'll we'll hopefully see more examples I mean right now there's like some picks and shovels right like you can bet on some of these platforms there's like the virtuals protocol there's um why am I blank on this we just talked about it the um the

the ai6 Z equivalent one um AIU or whatever it whatever it's called um it's there's a million of them eort Capital show something this morning made think like wow there's a bunch of platforms trying to run like this kind of pix and shovels like pump fun of of Agents thing which we'll see how much staying power that has I mean the reality is that like the people that are really like innovating at the next tier it's probably going to be where all the kind of the excitement and attention goes to in the same way that like the open AIS the claws you know the anthropics of the world are the ones that are like they're pushing the boundaries that's where like the the real Innovative stuff is happening not the guy who's making the 10th copy of a Donald Trump AI agent and

dropping it on virtuals protocol so um yeah I I think we're early because there aren't really a lot of things to um like really directly bet on this narrative in the public markets yet I agree with you I've never done this view before weird really weird because I wasn't here for the Jess P episode I had pneumonia um all right let's um let's end it thank you for coming on I really appreciate it thanks for having me and uh maybe one takeaway I got one takeaway because you mentioned it real quickly around different platforms I think we're going to see some weird stuff we're going to

see an agent with that goes crazy on only fans we're going to see an agent that goes crazy on YouTube um I think it'll happen we'll see some we'll see some like top creators that are not people basically in a year yeah I completely agree with you I will also say this stuff makes me really sad um but on the other hand it also like I've always been kind of like a I've I tend to kind of get doomish not about like price going up and stuff but like about the world I'm like oh the world is is going so man um but I will say my mind's changed a little bit because I realized that I've been able to like capably use AI to improve workflows sometimes up to like 70 80% so my fear was always oh

like AI um as like we're just going to accelerate it into digital like our lives are going to be increasingly digital um the the good the good news there is that like I've improve moved my workflow so much that I can I can increasingly spend outside time outside um which has them in the case these past few weeks because the Mark is ridiculous but yeah I think that's a good point I think the um the potential downside is like you know less and less using my human brain and more and more using the AI brain to think for me um I just I see there's like a there's like a television part two where

like you know people sit in front of the AI machine and it just like does all their thinking for them which you know maybe that's good maybe that's bad maybe like you say it just allows us to touch more grass in the future yeah I think if definitely if you're using AI a lot to do like a lot of work stuff I would recommend first of all I would recommend not doing that I think like people should I like to write down on pen and paper what I want to like for reports and stuff I'll first do my whole outline on pen and paper um which is kind of annoying actually but like it's it's much much better for me I think um and then I'll do all day I stuff I want to do like Grand I think the Young Generation is gonna be they're skipping those steps entirely

they're going straight to the prompter and they're saying you know this is my assignment give me what do I need yeah yeah that's true um but you know maybe there's something else waiting in store for us some like deeper level of Education that can be achieved via you know AI assistance we'll see we're getting we're you're going to make me do more again one thing I will say is that I think like most people get what they like people just figure out what they should be doing throughout different ages um and they'll figure out like you you can do all of your assignments on like whatever chbt um and it can say stuff like oh in the science landscape this this this

happens um but eventually they'll realize that they have to think for a little bit or they get one-shotted by the singularity and they just they just never think again yeah I I guess it's not really any different than you know the kid who copies their homework from someone else and then they when they have to think about what they actually want to do they're screwed yeah I don't know yeah I guess um maybe maybe not some what is that I don't know what the hell happened all right call it there maybe thanks guys thanks for listening [Music]