PublicGoods.Network L2 w Kyle Weiss & Nicole d’Avis

Transcript

foreign [Music] what is up coordination welcome to the greenpill.network podcast if you're just joining us we're building a coordination a network Society of thousands of hackers dreamers and doers focused on using crypto to bring positive some change to the world this podcast features the people who are doing it and it's published every Tuesday and Thursday if you want to learn more visit our website at greenpill.network where you can download the green pill book for free join the Discord and become a member of your local greenpill.network chapter my guest today is Nicole D Davis and Kyle Weiss who have been incubating the public goods network with a number of other organizations what is the

publicgoods.network it is a layer 2 built on optimism Tech that serves as a shelling point for public goods projects to uh to deploy their contracts so basically public goods.network is a layer two but it's also a social and memetic shelling point that public goods projects projects who care about public goods can deploy their contracts to and help fund public goods by doing that so layer twos gather sequencer fees in exchange for the transactions that are run on them in public goods.network is no different in that way but what is different about it is that those sequencer fees net of costs will go to

fund public goods which public goods well uh it sounds like they're still figuring out the governance but uh clear fund and giveth and git coin and a number of others are involved so I'm interested to see how this Coalition evolves and how this becomes a shelling point for digital public goods funding the uh I think this is also sort of part of the app chain thesis which is a thing that has been developed in the ethereum ecosystem where different projects are starting to launch their own chains so basically Zora launching Zora Network coinbase launching base and now get coin launching publicgoods.network but I think that what Bitcoin is doing is a little bit different because it's not just the Bitcoin Network this is the publicgoods.network and they're building

a coalition around the work that they're doing so um I think the it's going to be an interesting uh week on the Greenfield podcast we just learned about contract secured revenue and how l2s can be used to fund developers on Tuesday and now public goods.network is another way that developers well at least public goods developers can can fund their work so um interesting week on the green pill podcast this week so um our guests today are Nicole Davis uh and Kyle Weiss uh real quick intro on who those who those people are Nicole uh Daves works with early stage organizations to launch and scale previous with previously with seed club and the open music initiative and Kyle Weiss is a co-founder of get coin

currently the executive director of the get coin foundation so I think the the combination of our three perspectives on how to fund public goods are really quite fun to get into in this episode and I think that you're gonna enjoy this episode on publicgoods.network some quick disclaimers before we get into the episode I am a co-founder of get coin but since it has become a Dao I have disaffiliated from leadership there and um that was to make room for other leaders and other ideas uh post-awaki ideas uh as as as um some people in get coined out would say and I think public goods.network is an example of that decentralization and that emerging leadership at Bitcoin so

I'm playing host in this episode but um you know this is a completely independent thing that was developed at Bitcoin uh without me and I'm uh doing the screen fill episode in order to help them help them announce it but otherwise I'm just sitting in the host chair so uh disclaimer I co-founded get coin and because of that I hold some GTC the governance token of the get coin network but otherwise I am uh just playing host in this episode so um this is a fun episode if you're into layer twos aptane thesis how to fund public goods or if you're just up to keeping up what goes on at Bitcoin so without further Ado I give you Kyle and Nicole talking about publicgoods.network enjoy coordination ballet Dao is an open Global Collective working to finance and democratize the governance of synthetic

biology Technologies to protect the future of our planet research and progress into synthetic biology is critically constrained by the world of nation-state regulations and bureaucracy from middlemen but the potential that synthetic biology has for the world is massive it can produce a World in total harmony with nature we can grow stuff using cells like software it's awesome and the best part is we no longer have to pull carbon out of the ground to grow and maintain civilization don't you think we should be funding this Valley Dow does and that's what they're here to do to try and make the solar Punk World of Tomorrow a reality today so join Valley Dao right now and save the planet at valleydow.bio what's up Kyle what's up Nicole foreign

so let's pull this thread what is public goods.network um thank you for asking thanks for having us um so the public goods Network um is an L2 that uh is being launched by an alliance a collective a cohort an Avengers group of public goods enthusiasts um get coin as well as clear fund giveth public nouns many others are coming together to put together this network where the fees rather than going back to the network and staying there can be used for

sustaining public goods funding Beyond just the the grant rounds and the other mechanisms that we've currently been using Kyle you want to say more yeah sure um thanks thanks for having us love the opportunity to kind of talk about what public goods Network we've been we've been naming it PGN for those of us that are working on it so probably see us going to talk about PGN and pgns in the logo and really excited to to partner with a number of different folks to make almost like a digital shelling point for public goods projects and to pull together a lot of the financial sustainability of funding those public good projects so one of the terms that

we heard as we were talking to folks is this is you know fees for good it's really the opportunity to take a lot of the sequencer fees the vast majority of sequencies are going to funding public goods projects um or those that are building public goods specifically and PGN is an OP stack Network that enables opportunity for those that like want to fill block space and fund public goods at the same time so really excited to have the layer two live um coming up I think all the test Nets are now live so that's why we're chatting with you is a fun announcement on test Nets here and there's some event in Paris that some of you all might know about and you can kind of learn a little bit more and perhaps hear a little bit

more about mainnet details whenever we are all in Paris and if you're in Paris definitely check out finding the comments in addition to ECC and finding the comments is an awesome sort of region event that I think we're all excited to participate in as well so can you take us through the dates here it sounds like um today on Thursday the the announcement for public goods.network is um and then there's funding the commons Paris in which you're going to be talking about publicgoods.network any other dates you can drop on us mainnet launch or any other important dates people need to know about we won't we won't make too much of the alpha but I can tell you that we're excited to move

um somewhat quickly the testings have been live for almost a month now we've been working with a number of teams to get um bridging and infrastructure deployed all the test that's to make sure that everything is pretty stable but because it's the same sort of Bedrock experience it's been very easy for folks to Port over um at ECC I think we'll talk about when mainnet will be live um if it's not already live by UCC so stay tuned for a little bit more of those details I'm wondering if y'all can say more about the technology behind publicgoods.network I know that a bunch of the different technology providers arbitrome optimism ZK sync polygon are all sort of uh launching their own layer

2 as a service app chain as a service kind of thing and which provider did you all go with and and why yeah it's a great question um we have such fantastic Partners who want to support public goods with the zksync um team and with ERA with the polygon team and polygon 2.0 and the arbitrum team with the op team you know we've even talked to Folks at gnosis and scroll and a bunch of others just to figure out what tech was going to be the best and can the decision came down to less related to the layer two or the network itself

um we wanted to find one that was sort of proven and all of those have been battle tested and proven which is fantastic and a lot of our decision came down to who could help us sort of bootstrap the network from an infrastructure perspective so we're working with um a great team to help run the sequencers and block explorers and transaction viewers and a lot of the the infrastructure to make sure that none of us in this sort of alliance or the the adventurers Guild here needs to take on ownership of the technology itself so we try to Outsource as much of the infrastructure as possible and it's through that process that the op stack chain kind of emerged as one of the

furthest ahead but um I'll mention this here and die on this hill get coin and I think a number of these other organizations are not L2 Maxis yet hopefully PGM is perhaps the place that they rally around um we're all funding public goods Maxes and so I think any of the layers that are committed to that um you know we're excited to continue to deploy to just the plurality of layer twos from the get clean perspective and I think that's the expectation for everyone some alliances there's there's no plan to be exclusively on PGM but instead to use PGN perhaps as the default for some of the deployments that we have so we appreciate the plurality and recognize the importance of sort of

scaling ethereum with multiple Roll-Ups here I'm wondering if you can say more about what you hope to accomplish by launching public goods Network what does success look like yeah Nicole do you want to grab that one talk to that um yeah sure I'll um take a stab um the you know when I came on and it's been a pretty short turnaround um it was interesting to kind of think about you know the the public goods funding models that exist right now and um you know there's a couple of big ones in the space there's also a lot of smaller grants and and

um you know people experimenting more and more in crypto which I think is really exciting um but there's not necessarily a place where everybody comes together to do that and so I think that you know first of all this idea of a digital shelling Point um a center a magnetic sort of core for public goods is is really exciting and so um you know like Kyle said it's not necessarily the only place um you know we are chain agnostic but it is a place that you can default to and know that when people come here um you know on this network this is a priority funding public goods is a priority and you don't even necessarily need to be you know running a grant round yourself or involved in funding

public goods simply by being on the network your the you know the fees that are being generated are going back toward public goods and so I think that that's the sort of first piece is that this is this becomes a place where there's this gravitational pull around public goods and around something that um people are excited to to do and I think that um you know the other piece is kind of this expansion of um the the public goods meme or the public goods message that it is again something that um is you know perhaps more prominent throughout crypto where again people are sort of seeing that um you know there's the the couple like giants certainly

that are coming together to help um you know get this thing off the ground but that there's a lot more in other spaces and I think that there's not a lot of cross-industry conversations necessarily happening um in you know what public goods are how they're funded um in a new web 3 world and so I think that this also offers an opportunity to have discussions and have collaboration across industry which is also really exciting yeah a couple quick notes I guess just tactically mpgn PGN is going to settle in beef there's no new token for PGN um you know I I won't commit to never being a token who knows where this will

eventually go but like there's absolutely no plan for a token for PGM I think we want to make sure that we're still supporting core ethereum infrastructure in that approach and I love you know Nicole just the way that you describe the emphasis on the digital struggling point I think as we've evaluated this um finding durable legitimate always-on sources for funding public goods is very very difficult like we kind of talk about this race to the bottom like you have to just get to the core Primitives and tax the congestible along the way to make sure that there's opportunity to fund public goods and perpetuity so um the success that PGN really is around the community that we can build around

sort of the adoption that we can grow and it's it's much less catered to financial you know we want a million dollars for funding public goods by this date or time I think at this point um you know like Nicole just described making sure that public goods are top of mind for folks and that's the thing that they know that they can support simply by running on a network um and as sort of operators we can continue to grow the number of projects that are building public goods that are funding public goods uh is very much kind of where we're setting our sites for now so one one other quick detail I think on the success here um we're going to take a little bit of time to Define what sort of governance

looks like and how those fees are allocated as well it's a little bit premature it'll quite know what that fee structure looks like and how much sequencer fees are going to be earned and so I think after a few months of mainnet live is whenever we'll come back to all of those in the group that are sort of helping run and operate the network and determine what is that incredibly neutral sort of fee allocation split which is why we're so excited to have the folks that Nicole mentioned uh participating early on to help us kind of phone form that cohort it sounds like this is going to be a phased rollout you've got the test net launch you've got the mainnet launch and then you're going to kind of figure out a governance structure for where fees go but I'm wondering if you can say

um exactly what public goods this network is going to fund and how will that be determined is there initial thought on the governance structure of of where those sequencer fees go and um and like are they going to get coin rounds if so which get coin rounds and you know are they going to other d-apps like giveth or CLR phone rounds and if so how how that determination be made and how will that evolve over time yeah um I think we know almost as much as what you just described I think for those that are sort of committing to participation and running in the network we want to make sure there's upside for them in doing so if they are a public good or a public goods project and so

um we're really happy to have protocol Guild on there to support folks who are kind of building public goods in the Bitcoin ecosystem hypersearch team and the protocol Labs folks getting involved as well but then lots of other teams that are focusing on novel funding mechanisms for public goods so clear fund as you mentioned is fantastic um love having sort of plurality and qf mechanisms and options available definitely the Bitcoin team has been highly supportive of the launch and has made a lot of this possible um but even Griff and giveth were one of the earliest supporters of just um you know showing showing their both appreciation but then encouragement of

like this is amazing just keep going like yes that sounds great how do we participate so it's always fun to have those cheerleaders and we always appreciate just the giveth in community in general sort of showing up to help us in that way so beyond that like how those fees were set up I think it really just kind of depends on how much Capital we're talking um how quickly the network grows um but I think one of the things that we're interested in is at least growing the number of sources for public goods funding because right now you know a lot of us are competing for the same funding whenever we're talking to maybe optimism or polygon or uniswap or ens or any of

these other uh larger legitimate organizations for you should fund public goods and it's like well great I gave money to that person or I give them to that person not to you this time so figuring out ways to kind of grow the pie or raise the tide for all boats um is what we hope to accomplish and I think a lot of the governance will come after the fact of like is this a tsunami me a wave of opportunity or is this you know a small small increase um but we'll know more I think in the next handful of months so uh this episode is airing on Thursday first Thursday of July and on Tuesday we had Zach Cole from Kanto talking about CSR on the uh on the podcast and for those of us who didn't catch it CSR is just

basically a way of uh people who deploy smart contracts to a layer two can then get sequencer fees for that for that layer too um and so contract secured revenue is a way of taking the sequencer fees that would have gone to the network validators and also giving it to the developers that Deploy on a layer two um is that is that something that could be in the mix as as a way of governing the allocation of sequencer fees yeah for sure um I think CSR is really really fascinating primitive in that it sort of empowers the developers to choose like it empowers those that are deploying apps to decide how to allocate Capital my understanding is there's usually a

mix and so by running on PGN we might enable CSR such that 75 of net sequence reviews are directed by the developer but 25 perhaps stay within the network um this really gives folks the power to decide both not only how to allocate sequencer fees to themselves if they so desire but to which public goods projects if they want to do that as well um but I love that type of innovation like I said I think we all kind of recognize that like tax in the congestible very much a italic term um is where there's opportunity for just sustainability in a lot of the ecosystem so turning that back to those that are creating the most value arguably the

apps themselves the ones that are driving user adoption the ones that are bringing in liquidity the ones that are like bringing novel use cases to crypto in general um is fantastic and so we're very excited to explore what implementing CSR might entail in PGM and you gotta love the the memes and lulls of the eips that make it happen so uh shout out to all of those that were like making eip6969 um it's fantastic to have just that concept being brought in and sort of empowering those that are ideally growing the ecosystem as a whole in ways that like the networks don't really grow the ecosystem the networks enable growth

of the ecosystem I think that you know what I'm hearing a lot of is like when it comes to how the Govern the allocation of the sequencer fees to public goods it sounds like you don't really know yet but you're kind of setting the social shelling point in the brand around thepublicgoods.network and over the next six months there will be a process through which people can figure out exactly how the the the sequencer fee governance will work um and that sort of matches my framework for how dowels can interoperate with each other like you need Social interop and then technology interrupt and then economic interop from there so you're sort of setting the selling point and and there's a little bit of like trust me in the governance of the allocation of the sequencer fees

um is that like a fair roll up yeah yeah I think we're absolutely still at the social layer the technology layer has been selected but it'll continue to evolve with great Innovations like CSR um and governance layer I think is the hardest uh we just did a podcast on all the different governance mechanisms and challenges with governing things as well um I think we want to make sure that we're not premature in defining something without quite understanding the implications of that so having a little bit of time under our belt to sort of run and operate and to gather feedback is going to be important yeah the way I see that so there's this thing is it comes from the cosmos

ecosystem it's called the app chain thesis and basically the idea is that every application will have its own blockchain um and and I think that that's kind of what we're seeing in the ethereum ecosystem right now with uh coinbase launching base and then and then Zora launching the Zora Network and now we've got the public goods Network by Bitcoin and what I'm really interested to see is that like the you know the coinbase network is called base and the Zora Network it's called Zora Network right but this is not called the git coin Network this is called the publicgoods.network and what's interesting to me in that is is that some people might see it as the get coin network but if you can solve the governance problem of finding a legitimate way uh legitimate and not

captured way of allocating the sequence or fees to all the different public goods projects then I think that you create a shelling point where it's not like an app chain like the app team thesis becomes more of like a memetic shelling Point chain thesis like you're you're more than just the get coin Network here and so I mean assuming you know assuming that you solve the governance problem and so um you know I'm just interesting interested to see the app chain thesis on ethereum all play out and I think that like we're all standing on the shoulders of giants but what I think they get coins doing that's innovating interesting here is is trying to make it not just get coin but just trying to make it like the ecosystem of public Goods in general and um and and so just just seeing that all

play out I think will be interesting and and you know for people who are building on Public public goods uh if you can provide a service to them where they bring they bring activity to public goods.network and in exchange they get sequencer fees but without the overhead of having to negotiate setting up their whole app chain then I think that that's a legit Innovation especially for the smaller builders in the public goods space so that's how I see the Strategic like chess board playing out I'm curious if you have any if anyone has any comments on that and maybe we'll start with you Nicole since I know I've been going back and forth a lot with Kyle um yeah I mean I um as I shared you know I came on um pretty recently and I'm not you know I wasn't formerly with the get

coin team myself and so while I'm a fan and you know definitely um you know supporter and a fan of public goods like I you know I mostly what I like to do is convene people and bring people together and so um that piece has been fun for me of both you know seeing who's already in the circle and who's working together and who's been doing you know this like really important and hard work already but then also who else we can bring in and so I think that you know there is a little bit of I guess a a benefit to my coming in and being able to start driving this forward because um I'm you know just thrilled to basically work with everybody and to hear from folks and I have a little bit

of that like advantage of being um a bit new to the relationships where I can sort of hear things with fresh ears and and approach things in that way and so um yeah like a I'm you know excited to just build on the enthusiasm and the momentum that's already been happening but then also um because on the on the crypto side I you know have spent a lot of time sort of in the like arts and culture um and consumer spaces and there's a lot of also sort of public goods adjacent work happening there and so I'm also excited to sort of bring in more of those conversations um whether it's you know

um in like the the food and beverage or like the um back to the land and and you know there's there's a lot of like interesting people doing interesting projects that I think are going to be really excited to know about this and so I think that's another piece that I just personally love about sort of what we're all building in generally is that these Concepts can be applied um in a lot of different ways and so to you know bring others into the conversation um and to have folks in the room that don't necessarily always um you know collaborate and and build together I think that there's a lot of benefit to that so yeah I think that um the way that you described of sort of

like right now we're at that trust us layer um feels right and I'm excited to work with folks and to sort of um all cooperate in good faith I would just want to Echo that success is not for this Gene to be used as like an app chain for Bitcoin or this to be get coins chain um success really is to grow kind of the cohort and the adventurers that want to explore this with us and to make sure that this is something that lives um hopefully as long as get going like I hope Bitcoin lives into perpetuity as well but sort of adjacent to it in the fact that you know it's funding Bitcoin it's funding clear fund it's funding

giveth it's funding the next 10 ideas that come up that none of us even know about during the next sort of Market cycle so um I am very fortunate in being able to sort of incubate this with Nicole and a number of other great people um but I think you know I just really want to stress that as much credibly credible neutrality we can bring to the governance and decision making is one of the things like kind of the core tenants in which we've been seeding this network and hope to carry that forward as well I'm interested to to expand on on the question of what is get coins memetic North Star because I know that the mission used to be building fund digital public goods and now the mission on getcoin.com says fund what matters so um

did you all ever consider calling this fund what matters.network uh is the North Star of Bitcoin still public goods or is it just funding what matters here no I think I think this is actually maybe a valuable Nuance um so Perhaps Perhaps I'll get my taken we're getting you know a little deep on bitcoin on this side but so I'm gonna admit to start the fun what matters.network pretty good name right uh fwt uh or fwm wtf.network anyway I'm sorry posting here uh if you want to tell us about the new ones go ahead totally well so much of like a queen is and does like

the soul of our organization is around funding public goods but bitcoin's venomous transition from um impact organization to sort of protocol impact organization and so a lot of what we're focusing on now is enabling people to build fund and protect what matters and in a lot of situations with the new aloe protocol um we're enabling people to allocate Capital to things that they care about and that's good just for the listeners the allo protocols the new protocolized version of quadratic funding um is that right it is yeah so Alo aloe has a mechanism it's kind of Three core components to it one of which is like a project registry of sorts the second is the funding

mechanism so quadratic funding is kind of like the staple the one that we have built out the most but we're working on a direct grants um funding mechanism there's quadratic voting funding mechanisms and there's conviction voting funding methods there's all sorts of other funding mechanics we plan on adding and then the third is the payout strategy so whether you're doing uh one-time payout based on the quadratic funding results you're doing Milestone based payments you're doing sort of drip campaigns like there's a lot of different payout strategies you can select within the allo protocol as well so whenever I think about just Bitcoin and where we're headed um I am an allocation Capital Maxi I love seeing public goods funded but I love just seeing entrepreneurs

adventurers like those who are willing to take a risk on an idea receive funding as long as they're doing great work for that too that's what drew me take a coin initially that's why I loved just sort of the plethora of projects that Bitcoin had whether that was bounties and hackathons whether that was grants all the different ways that were kind of rewarding Builders and building um opportunity for those Builders so From bitcoin's perspective we have um a matching pool that we use to deploy during quadratic funding rounds to make sure that we're funding public goods we're really focused on you know kind of getting back to the basics of some of our next rounds of core ethereum infrastructure open source software

Community projects picking a couple other causes that I think people are interested in and so PGN is really about making sure that there's kind of Vitality and funding those opportunities but Bitcoin I think is being slightly more expansive in our approach and making sure that public goods are not the only thing that we're focused on allocating capital or enabling people to allocate Capital towards any of the sequence or fees or things that come back to bitcoin would go into that matching pool which is earmarked specifically for public goods but as we've transitioned from just impact organization focused on public goods funding what matters I think is sort of the end game for the protocol side of what we're doing and passport is the

tool that helps you kind of protect what matters as well and oftentimes that's your community and your community might not always be a public good your community is a thing that you want to keep intimate you want to keep um sort of Highly connected and relational to the people that matter to you as well so um long story short on that Nuance like funding public goods is deep in our in our ethos and sort of the soul of Bitcoin but we want to make sure that the technology we're building the solutions we're building enables a plurality of of funding to things outside of just public goods and PGN is an opportunity to make sure that for for Bitcoin for a number of these other folks who are going on this adventure with us there's

sustainability and funding public goods because so much of what Bitcoin is built on is in fact public goods as well and even the early days of you know python being an open source language and preaching to the choir here as as Kevin you know having hacked on and built large swaths of some of the early products as well yeah so the way I um let me just say that back to you and and this might be too reductionist but it feels like public goods is sort of like the soul of get coin it's where it came from it's it's core it's Back to Basics ethereum open source rounds and um and fund what matters I think is just like a more approachable way to wrap

things up um without having to explain to people what public goods is in from like an economic perspective and if you're giving communities the ability to allocate Capital to what matters to them to fund what matters and what matters to them is public goods then the algorithm will naturally Elevate that so there's a little bit of a tick tock between public goods and and funding what matters at getcoin and that Nuance is just in um the soul is still the same but it's just a different sort of messaging for different different audiences um did I play that back correctly or was that true reductionist no I think that's that's fantastic um we want to make sure that people who are using aloe

um Grant stack like all the d-apps on top of the aloe protocol can decide how they want to distribute a lot of the funding we don't want to be ones who say that they can only distribute it to funding public goods we think there's just so much opportunity um in reallocating capital to those who are willing to work for those who are willing to build and those who are doing good things in the space what is aloe short for allocation okay just putting that together yeah is that like a til today you learned Kevin that's that's today yeah today thousands of audience members learned it um all right let's uh let's maybe drive it home since we're getting to the back

half the back nine of the episode so um what does the world look like in in which public goods.network is is maximally successful I mean I think that you know I guess building off of this idea of funding what matters um you know I think that the ability for people to do that um in a place together is really exciting so it's not just the the mechanisms for example that allow the funding but it's also that you can be contributing to something um without even necessarily running a grant round or or you know being involved specifically so I think you know that that first piece of um I think we have a lot of

we have a lot of examples in the real world of how we fund public goods and and how um we've sort of experimented with this um and sort of like our day-to-day lives and some of it's you know government intact some of its patronage and philanthropy um and different societies sort of play around with that mechanism in different ways and so I think one of the things that's interesting to me is this sort of tension and um conversation between the technology and then the the human layer of okay well we have these you know new technologies that we're continuing to build with an L2 it enables us to use the sequencer fees in interesting ways and so what does

that look like in this Digital World of how do we start to come together digitally you know across all of the various boundaries that we have in in our real lives and think about what it means to you know do something for somebody that's not yourself and so I think that you know by simply just being on this network for example if there's if you're doing something and you need um a chain to do it on by being on this you're generating fees that then go to someone else that's you know not just the network and you know I think there's also just this trust that you're contributing fees to something that um somebody you know a a group of people

um are working on governing and thinking about where that should go so I think that that's kind of this first piece is just that we're continuing to experiment with how public goods are funded what they are um how we can generate more funds for public goods and then how we get those out to various places and so I think that piece um first of all even the discussion of it the ability for us to have that conversation is novel um and it's I think bringing all of the separate conversations like Kyle said or you know us all sort of um competing for the same dollar it brings us together in a more aligned way to work on this to like yes you know

rise the boats grow the pie um and for people to be involved even if they're not necessarily um you know even if they're you know building something that's not specifically public goods and so that piece I think is really exciting and I hope that it will bring sort of the meme of public goods into more people's minds and and conversations as well Kyle same question to you what does the world look like in which PGN is maximally successful man Nicole gave such a great answer let's see I think I would just Echo that we're building Community we're building opportunity for the future of like public goods that we want to see in the

world um if we all have to fill block space doing it in a place that aligns with our our vision and sort of our ego so the outcomes we care about is is what we hope PGN becomes for so many other people as well so um that's millions of dollars in funding for public goods happening monthly in ways that like incredibly neutral can be allocated and just growing the ethereum infrastructure and the ethereum community throughout throughout time so there you have it we'll we'll check back in maybe a year and we'll see if we're up to the millions of dollars of public goods funding on a monthly basis yeah well I'm looking forward to having

you back and asking the hard questions about what's the credibly neutral governance structure for this for other public good spending mechanisms um just know that I'm going to dig deeper on that next time Fair totally fair yeah what um I mean there was there was this this EAP I mean you were involved in this early on whenever we tried you tried to do this at the the core ethereum layer right and that was that was a piece that I think this got hung up on was how do you allocate these fees in a credibly neutral way on something like the ethereum main net um I think you shared that EIP with me what what number was that Kevin do you remember oh it's uh the EIP we don't talk about the EIP we don't name uh no I'm just using uh we're gonna do an

episode on this soon but it was EIP 1890 block rewards funding for public goods and um basically this was I think 2019 and there was a bunch of feed feedback from the ecosystem that was like listen we love public goods but there's not a good credibly neutral way to allocate them and also the layer one needs to be uh credibly neutral and we don't want to imbue any set of actors as um from the layer one and so um I think that a lot of the activity around finding funding mechanisms for public goods has moved to layer twos where it's more permission uh it's we're more able to do experimentation it without uh it's kind of like in the United States uh and

this might be true in America Centric of a of an example but like the 50 states sort of um experiment with with things like innovating on health care or marijuana legalization and then if the if there's a market where if one state is successful then other markets can adopt it I kind of think that's what's happening with layer twos in the ethereum ecosystem is that um is that the layer twos are going to innovate on eip6969 or um or maybe public goods funding and then they're going to cross-pollinate with each other if they're successful but it would be a market not something that's imposed top down but um a really quick two minute tour of block rewards funding and why it didn't work and we're going to do a whole episode on it soon

but uh for now I'm I'm happy to say that layer two is where the Innovation is at yeah cool sweet thanks for teasing that out I like your analogy it's a good analogy which one the 50 states thing yeah I mean sure U.S Centric but it's it's good yeah for sure um okay well um is there anything I didn't ask that you want to say maybe Nicole we're going to be first um look out for some green circles in your uh Twitter timeline if you haven't already seen them um they'll hopefully be taken over you two can tweet a green circle um I think that that's a piece that's

fun and easy um so I think it's it's a way to start the conversation proliferate the conversation and get people interested in what we're building um and then you know look for other ways to join we've got a telegram group and uh we're going to be posting how you can actually build on PGN as well so um yeah tweet the green circle the green circle looks suspiciously like a green pill I've got to say weird weird yeah we're green and regen Vibes for the green circle well no the the evolution of the circle is I think that optimism was a red circle and then bass launched a blue circle as their meme I'm not sure what Zora's color is but uh yeah it's Horrible's a long

lineage of circle emojis for these L2 networks sorry Nicole did you say something oh it's the it's their network is the Zorb absorb oh okay that's right oh they already had a circle okay yeah these these memes are like um same question to you Kyle is there anything I didn't ask you want to say um I want to give a shout out to clear fund real quick they're running a quadratic funding round right now I think there's about a week left in that uh whenever this airs so go to CLR fund um help fund some public goods there's great projects on there um I'm excited for us to be able to help fund future girlfriend rounds with this initiative in the future

um and yeah we just Echo a lot of the sentiment that Nicole shared like get involved come join the telegram tell us what you love share it on Twitter um I think spreading awareness like making sure that folks know that this exists and why it exists is always step one and we'll continue to do great things to attract Builders and to the network you know getting things like CSR in place and that we're exploring and others so otherwise I think that's mostly it okay all right two more questions the first one's a Hardball are you ready our public goods good of course public goods are good always it's in the name

um all right let's end on this uh how can listeners get involved and support the effort you want to drop some some links that people can go to and just call to action yeah there's a telegram group um that's the I guess communication shelling point for folks to come together learn more meet the others that are building and contributing so um if you want to learn more of the telegrams probably the best first place um and then we will be putting you know continuing to put more and more information up on the site so that technically you understand what's going on and how to build um and again how to you know how to get involved and then um for those that are going to be in Paris a little thing called ECC

um Kyle's going to be there I think we're going to have a good number of folks there what can they see and expect their Kyle um we love the folks of protocol labs and the support that they are given to funding public goods and just the queen as well a number of us in the ecosystem so I think at funding the commons we'll share a lot more details on Main net both timeline and connection you know what's going to be deployed we know that that running on a layer two is not One does not simply move to a layer two there's usually infrastructure whether that's the graph indexing whether that's liquidity whether that's bridging there's all sorts of stuff that we're uh

working behind the scenes to get in place to make sure that whenever those things go live it's a great experience so um we'll have a bunch of details to share at fun in the Commons and during ECC as well thanks Kyle thanks Nicole uh there will be a link to the telegram and a link to publicgoods.network in the show notes so if you're a listener click those uh click those links if you want to get involved and uh Kyle and Nicole thanks so much for joining me yeah thank you thanks for having us [Music] foreign