Peter Schiff on Strategy's Death Spiral, Gold's Negative Sentiment and AI Inflation

Transcript

Intro

Michael Saylor to me has always been the biggest bullshitter in crypto. It sounds like he knows what he's talking about, but beneath those big words is is a bunch of BS. When he got into these borrowing money and then issuing these preferred stocks, that's when he really, you know, crossed the line in my opinion, because then he went into outright fraud. A lot of people are going to be suing him. It's going to put a lot of downward pressure on Bitcoin, which then puts downward pressure on strategy shares. Uh and it becomes this death spiral.

You know, because the lower Bitcoin goes, the more Bitcoin he has to sell to raise the money he needs. And then that pushes the price down even lower. He needs to sell even more. That pushes the yield up on stretch. Now he needs to sell even more Bitcoin to pay the yield. I mean, it's a it is a death spiral. We have an arms race, you know, we need to buy all this Bitcoin before the Chinese buy it, before the Russians buy it. They're laughing their heads off. They don't want this crap. Once, you know, the myth that Bitcoin is digital gold really dies, uh that's good for actual gold. There's a reason that central bankers choose inflation. And for the same reasons, Warsh is going to make the same choice.

Because if you don't choose inflation, you choose something else. >> Hi, everybody. My name is Paul Buitink and welcome to Reinvent Money, a podcast about money and power. Today back on the show legendary Peter Schiff of The Peter Schiff Show podcast to talk about gold, Bitcoin, strategies death spiral and macroeconomics in general. Hi, Peter. Good to see you again. Let's uh dive right into it. >> Yeah, I'm fine. I know your time stretched today, so let's just to go straight to the meat. Um last time we spoke was in November and gold has been on a roller coaster since. Basically, we are at the same price level as we were

Gold's rollercoaster ride explained

last time we spoke, but it went of course to to the moon and back. So, I would love to hear your your take of what happened with with the price since we spoke since November basically. >> Yeah, well, we did. We went on a rocket ride, and then we came crashing back down. And I think that's really damaged uh the maybe enthusiasm or some of the positive sentiment that came into the gold market kind of towards the tail end of that rally. And I think we're back to the same [clears throat] negative sentiment that defined the entire rally up until that point. People are very negative now on gold, but you know, gold it obviously you know, got ahead of itself.

Um you know, silver broke out above 50 and went up to 120, you know, having been stuck at around 30 for you know, a couple years. So, it overshot. I think all the noise in the Gulf leading up to the Iran war, it was kind of obvious that something was going to happen, and so that also fueled uh the buying into gold. So, it had a a big run-up. And then when the war broke out, it was more of a buy the rumor, sell the fact cuz it already been priced in.

Um and so that started the correction. And then when we got these you know, supposedly hawkish comments from Kevin Warsh, uh you know, the new Fed chair about how aggressive they were going to be in their single focus on returning to 2% inflation. Um and now the market's kind of flipped from expecting two or three rate cuts to expecting two or three rate hikes. Uh that put a lot of pressure on gold as well, you know, also pushed up the dollar.

now, you know, I think that's just created a good buying opportunity. I think the the the market is pricing in rate cuts that are unlikely to actually happen. And even if they do happen, it's going to be with inflation much higher than it is. And so real rates are actually going to be lower. And real rates are much more important. In fact, in many cases, nominal rates are irrelevant. Real rates are all that counts. And and so real rates are going to be a lot lower even if the Fed nudges up nominal rates.

So I think the idea that, you know, we're going to crush gold here with tough tight money, kind of like Paul Volcker, that ain't going to happen. Um you know, I think you know, we're we're headed a lot higher in gold. The question is when will this consolidation end? You know, gold is fighting a lot of support here around 4,000. It trades below it a little bit, but not much, and then it comes back up. So that may be the new base. You know, we we didn't establish a base at 5,000, but now we're you know, we had a base at 3,000, a base at 2,000.

4,000 seems like a pretty solid base, and we'll make another run at 5,000, and I'm sure we'll take out the the high. If not this year, by next year we'll be $6,000 gold. I think that's a pretty pretty likely likely move. >> Yeah, a lot of investment banks basically have the same price target. Let's let's just assume the 4,000 is the new base, just like you said. I would be happy with that as a sort of a launching platform for for further price records. And do you see the same thing with silver then or >> Yeah, I think silver dynamics look very strong to me. I think silver is unlikely to go back down to 50.

Silver price forecast and (AI) inflation

I think that that was the resistance from 20 from 1980 through 2021, and it really overhung the market for a long time. And then when we finally broke through it, we just way overshot. But I doubt people will get a chance to buy below 50 again. I think that, you know, anything below 60 is probably a pretty good buy for silver. You know, it's back slightly above 60 now, but I mean it was it's traded, I think the lowest I saw was like 56 and change.

But I I I I don't expect silver to to to get back below 50. I think that would be too good a buy opportunity for people who missed out. So, I think if you're going to buy it, you're going to have to pay up a little bit. but um I think it's headed a lot higher. And you know, it's not just gold and silver. You know, it's pretty much everything is going to go up. I mean, this is massive inflation uh that we have right now. And you know, even if AI can help offset some of the inflation with growth in productivity, those benefits are years away. In the short run, AI is actually putting upward pressure on prices.

Uh look what happened with, you know, computer Look at Apple. They just had the biggest price increases in their history across the board. 15 to 25% increase on basically every product, you know, they have. Um and the the the demand on energy and raw materials that are being used uh to finance this build-up. So, you got a lot of upward pressures in addition to the fact that the Fed is creating a lot of inflation to finance deficit spending. >> Right. And then what does it take for the bull market to resume? Would it be like a rate cut or a bank default or perhaps another conflict? Uh Do we need a trigger event in order for it to to to to start again?

What's needed for the bull market in gold and silver to resume

>> I mean, some bad economic numbers. You know, let's see if we get a bad jobs number on Friday on Thursday. Comes out Thursday this week. Um but yeah, I mean, the failure of the Fed to hike rates or maybe even the first hike could be a catalyst. but you know, I I don't know that they're going to have hike rates, you know, um why didn't they hike rates the first time they met if they were so gung-ho? Uh why is the balance sheet still expanding? Why why why is money supply growing? Um why did you know, why set up a committee? They set up these five task force to study the problems. I mean, that's usually what you do when you don't want to do anything about a problem. You want to pretend that you are. So you set up a task force to study

it. So, you know, they're going to you know, maybe that's an excuse to do nothing. Well, we're waiting for the task force, you know, to to give us a recommendation. And by then, you know, inflation could be a lot higher, the economy could be a lot weaker. Plus, you know, you've also got the elections. And as we're getting closer to November, you know, tomorrow's the beginning of July. So, the the election season really starts over the summer, you know, you know, that you know, because you got the elections in the fall.

And to the extent that the Republicans are you know, low in the polls, which they certainly are, um there's more incentive for some type of stimulus to, you know, give the voters something to take take into the voting booth, some kind of freebie. And so that could be a catalyst, you know, some you know, >> Yeah. Many uh black swans lurking um behind the bushes then. Bitcoin.

Bitcoin vs gold

>> Yeah, also I wonder if a real crash in Bitcoin, you know, could be some kind of catalyst where it kind of highlights the difference between the ass two assets. Cuz I think that Bitcoin has kind of overshadowed gold and stolen some of its thunder. And not even that, you know, people have been buying Bitcoin instead of gold, but I think a lot of people haven't bought either. But one of the reasons they haven't bought gold is they thought, well, you know, why gold? Gold's going to lose out to Bitcoin, so I don't I'll look for some other inflation hedge.

Um so, I think once, you know, the myth that Bitcoin is digital gold really dies, uh that's good for actual gold. >> So, you do you think some Bitcoin holders maybe they suffered so much from because last time we spoke, Bitcoin was around uh 90,000, right now it's around uh 58,000. So, you think some of these Bitcoin holders maybe are are damaged, are hurt that much that they they don't trust digital gold anymore, but they also as a result don't trust the original gold? >> Yeah, you know, I mean, but you know, and I think a lot of the the you know, the marketing spin on Bitcoin has been, you know, to denigrate gold and talk about all the problems with

gold, like, you know, it's not really scarce, you know, there's who knows how much there is, there's gold asteroids, you can you can never know if it's real or not, it's so easy to fake it, you know, there's all kinds of stuff because they have to trash gold. You know, so there's been a lot of, you know, negative campaigning against gold. So, that that that may have taken its toll on some potential buyers who don't who don't who don't, you know, see the real value. You know, and then I hear people say, well, gold is useless, gold it's [clears throat] all, you know, it's just all perception. I mean, people just think it has value, which, you know, describes Bitcoin exactly, but it doesn't describe gold. I mean, people don't seem to understand. They think

gold has no use, uh even though, you know, we have all this gold jewelry, uh and, you know, there's gold in consumer electronics, so everybody has gold and is using gold in their life, yet they don't realize how much value it has. >> [laughter] >> You know, it has it has properties that are very unique to gold that are not shared by other metals. Uh and there are circumstances where you need gold. Uh and you can't substitute anything else.

Gold's monetary premium

>> But how high is the monetary premium you think? So let's say gold loses its monetary rule and it's solely used for electronic purposes for example or industrial purposes. Then the then the value would be a fraction of current value, right? >> Well, it's hard to say what gold would be like if nobody wanted to use it as a store value. Because it's really hard to strip that store of value um from gold because it objectively is. Like because gold is uh you know, is is eternal. Gold doesn't decay, it doesn't rot, it doesn't you know, nothing happens to it.

Um so by its by the definition of its own properties it's a store value. And even if you use gold you can reuse it. It's not like once you've used it, you can't use it again. Whatever you've done with it, you can melt it down and start start over. And and so it's like other commodities. I mean if I buy wheat and I eat it, it's gone. I can't I can't eat the same wheat again. If I use gas you know I can't reuse it after I've burned it.

But you can use gold over and over and over again and it's never going to lose its value. And it's not like I mentioned, I can buy a new computer and you know, in a few years it's obsolete because they've got a better computer. So the one I bought loses value. When you buy gold it doesn't lose any value. There's not a a gold that's going to be developed that's going to make your gold obsolete. So, there are These are values that gold has that it's impossible to strip out. Um and again, you know, when I own gold, the gold that I own can be used in a thousand years by somebody else. So, it's like gold represents the present value of an eternity of use

cases. So, you hold you hold something in your hand. I mean, there's not many things that you have that will still be valuable in in a hundred years, let alone a thousand years. But, your gold will. >> Yeah. I agree and I think >> Yeah, I get it. You know, they they find a ship that was you know, that that sunk 600 years ago. The only thing that's probably of value is if they could find the gold that was there. The rest of it is all, you know, disintegrated into the sea. >> No, I agree. >> So, it's hard to say. I don't you can't really strip the store value aspect out of it. Now, I don't think there's that much monetary premium in gold now from monetary cuz very few people, if anybody, are actually using it as money.

So, there's not much of a monetary premium beyond central banks. Now, central banks are using it as a reserve asset. And that's been growing recently. But, historically, central banks have a very low percentage of their reserves in gold. So, there isn't a big demand right now for the gold as a reserve asset. I think it's growing because central banks are under invested in gold. They have too much fiat on their balance sheets.

So, I think that the demand for gold as a reserve from central banks is likely to go up, not down. And it's possible that demand for gold it in private hands as an investment, which is also historically low right now, will go up. So, you'll have more demand for investment gold by institutions, by individuals, and gold may in fact be remonetized. I think one of the things, ironically, that could be behind the move to remonetize gold is tokenization and blockchain, where you can take gold and tokenize it the way you can tokenize

the dollar. And people are talking about, "Oh, let's have stable coins. Let's use dollars uh on the blockchain because it's more efficient than a checking account or, you know, uh a bank wire or something like that." Well, you gain even more efficiency when you tokenize gold cuz once I've tokenized gold, now gold is the perfect medium of exchange. It's very easy to uh buy and sell and and settle in gold. I don't have to send you my gold. I don't have to physically hand it to you. I don't have to put it in a box and ship it to you. I just transfer instantly ownership of the token, and now the gold it belongs to you. The gold sitting in a

vault in Switzerland that was mine is now yours. And and so, rather than gold losing its monetary premium, I think that gold is more likely to gain the monetary premium that it doesn't really have right now. >> Right. What do you think of Judy Shelton's plan for a gold bond to be issued in 4th of July? Is that going to float? >> Well, I don't think the US is going to start issuing gold bonds. Um not not not not not if it doesn't have to uh because that's an admission that that that basically is a surrender.

Gold backed bonds

You know, because but obviously, if they issued bonds redeemable in gold, they could get a better interest rate than than in dollars. But the obligations would be growing because they'd have to go buy the gold if they don't have it. You know, I don't know what the reserves are. But yeah, I mean we could we could pledge our gold reserves, but then we're probably going to have to have an audit so people know that the gold is there. >> Right. And going back to Bitcoin, one of the divisive elements at the moment, I know a lot of Bitcoiners that don't like it at all is the strategy formally known as MicroStrategy and I I think you said the other day it should have been called micro instead of strategy.

Strategy's death spiral explained

I found it very funny. But you've been very critical of of strategy lately and I know a lot of Bitcoiners would love to see that company go as well to make Bitcoin pure again. But can you explain to me why you're so critical of them and why you believe they could fall into a death spiral in the end? >> Well, strategy I mean Michael Saylor to me has always been the biggest bullshitter in crypto. Um you know, the stuff he says is is is is blatantly absurd. I mean, he's an intelligent guy and so if you just listen to him talk and he talks about all this sophisticated stuff, you know, maybe he's it sounds like he knows what he's talking about. But beneath those big words is is a bunch of

BS. I mean, not it's all nonsense, everything. Especially when he got into Bitcoin credit and how he was creating credit. I mean, it's it's absolutely nuts. You know, and and he talks about Bitcoin as the most valuable property in the world. I'm like, well, how? What the hell could you do with it? You know, he says Bitcoin, it's just like owning Manhattan real estate. It's going to go up like Manhattan real estate. And he doesn't understand that what gives Manhattan real estate value is the high rents that you can charge when you own it.

You know, you don't you don't get paid anything for owning Bitcoin, so it's nonsense. But when he got into these um uh the line in my opinion cuz then he went into outright fraud because he was marketing these highly risky products as if they were bank accounts. You know, he described stretch as a bank account with no worries and and and no no volatility where you get a 10% yield.

And you know, meanwhile now if you bought it last month, you've already lost 20% of your principal, 25% of your principal. A a lot of people are going to be suing him because they they they listened to him and and now they lost money. But and you know, you've got a guy that is, you know, raised all this money. He's got a business. He's like, "I'm a Bitcoin treasury company." That's not a business. You can't have a business where all you do is buy Bitcoin. What kind of business is that? Anybody could buy Bitcoin. I don't need strategy to do it for me.

The only reason it seemed like he had a business was because people were dumb enough to overpay for his stock. So he's like, "Hey, I'm going to go buy Bitcoin." And his stock was trading for 150% double what the Bitcoin was worth. So he had a business of selling overpriced stock and then buying Bitcoin. But now the stock is worth less than the Bitcoin. So he's out of business. You can't You can't sell, you know, a dollar's worth of strategy stock and then go buy Bitcoin and then have less Bitcoin because now the Bitcoin was a dollar 50.

So he doesn't have a business model anymore of selling overpriced stock because he's run out of idiots willing to overpay for his stock. He resorted to promising people high returns if they gave him money to buy Bitcoin. But now people realize that those returns are unsustainable. That's why right now stretch, the market yield on stretch, even though he just raised the yesterday to 12% the yield is 15% because the price is falling because people don't believe he can pay it because he doesn't have an operating business. He doesn't generate any any income. He just has a pile of Bitcoin.

But what's that pile of Bitcoin worth? Well, not very much if he has to sell it. I think the main reason Bitcoin is close to 60,000 is because strategy spent 60 billion dollars buying it. If he If he If strategy didn't buy all that Bitcoin, it wouldn't be anywhere near here. And it's not just strategy's buying. A lot of other money was put into Bitcoin because of strategy because you know you got this big buyer that gives you some confidence to buy because you know this guy's going to be there every week buying all this Bitcoin. He's kind of protecting you.

But once he's out of the market and now worse strategy has to sell Bitcoin. They got to sell Bitcoin to raise cash for their reserve. They got to sell Bitcoin to pay the interest and the dividends on their debt and preferred stock. And now he's talking about buying back strategy stock, buying back the preferred. And in order to buy back the stock, he's got to sell the Bitcoin. But he's going to be selling the Bitcoin for a big loss compared to what he what what he paid for. Now of course, he's buying back the preferreds for less than he sold it for, too. So, you know, he makes some of it back.

But overall, it's a huge negative. But meanwhile, it's going to put a lot of downward pressure on Bitcoin, which then puts downward pressure on strategy shares. And it becomes this death spiral. the yield. I mean it's a it is a death spiral. That's why I've told people for a while and I've said this for over a year. Even if you like Bitcoin, even if you believe in it, like this in the long run it's the new gold. If you buy into that, I

don't, but if you do, my advice was get out of it now and don't buy it back until strategy's out of business. Wait till he's bankrupt. Wait till all that Bitcoin is sold into the market and then buy. Because until then you've got this massive seller overhanging the market. And look, strategy is down 50 I mean in the last I guess since October of last year, what, 8 months? Bitcoin is down 53%. During that time strategy bought 17 billion of Bitcoin.

Yet the the price still fell. So what's he going to do now with it when he's selling Bitcoin? Uh you know, and Bitcoin today is lower than it was in April of 2021. That was over 5 years ago. Bitcoin was 64,000 in April 2021. It's 59,000 now, barely. You know, um so if it couldn't go up with strategy buying 60 billion dollars worth, how's it going to go up now? I mean I keep asking these Bitcoiners, who is going to replace strategy?

Where and there was a lot of other Bitcoin treasury companies that were formed to basically ride on his coattails. So they've already bought a bunch of Bitcoin. No more no more of these companies are going to are going to be formed now that the you know, the poster boy was a complete disaster. In fact, I think a lot of these others uh uh treasury companies, they're going to see their share prices down. They're going to be at big discounts. They're going to be under pressure to start selling their Bitcoin. >> I think what provided also an impulse was the election of Trump, the ETFs that were launched to the market. So, when we have reelections or when we have the House and the Senate elections later this year and when a

American political crypto climate worsening

Democrat, for example, come come again back to the House, then I would argue that perhaps that could also be a negative for for Bitcoin because perhaps the market then would expect regulations to become tougher again and and less crypto-friendly. >> Oh, yeah. Look, the election of Donald Trump was a big positive PR event for Bitcoin. That's why the crypto industry put so much money in the Trump campaign because they knew that they would have an opportunity to sell into the hype. It was a giant pump and dump. That's why Bitcoin is lower now than when Trump was elected despite all the PR because the big money was selling into the the demand that was created based on Trump.

And Trump himself made a lot of money. He sold Trump coin. He sold Melania coin. Um you know, those things are down 99% but Trump issued them and got a lot of money. Um he made you know, he made a lot of money in Trump Media, which is down 95% now. It It It pivoted into a Bitcoin Treasury company. You know, all these Bitcoin I mean, obviously the biggest disaster was Nakamoto, the David Bailey company that's down 99.something percent from where it debuted like a little over a year ago.

Um but all these companies are destroying value. People are losing a fortune. Um but in the process, Bitcoin has been politicized. It's now associated with Republicans and you know, and and so when the Democrats take over, which they will, uh they're going to have Bitcoin in the crosshairs. >> And so the regulations are going to ramp up, the lawsuits, the the fines. Uh and of course, they're going to dump whatever Bitcoin is still in that strategic reserve. >> Yeah, because the SEC >> are not going to keep those Bitcoin.

>> Why is SEC not intervening at the moment? Why why are no fines being being handed out to for example strategy? >> I think the SEC has a hands-off approach to crypto and to strategy in particular um because of the Trump administration. They're very pro Bitcoin. Uh and they're actually pro companies ripping people off as long as it's with Bitcoin because you know, so they're they're protecting like it's a Bitcoin present cabinet and they're all Bitcoin. But yeah, when the Democrats get back in control, they're not going to be you know, that that's just the reality.

Uh you know, and and and and it'll be a way to get back at the Republican because a lot you know, but you know, Bitcoin is going to fall on its own. But it's going to be even worse uh when we don't have you know, Bitcoin presidents anymore. And and Donald Trump you know, promised to make America the Bitcoin capital of the world. That was that provided a lot of hype. If you remember a lot of the marketing and commercials that you saw for Bitcoin and Bitcoin related investments were all presented using Trump. Using the presidency. This is why you should buy Bitcoin because of the president, because of Trump. He's going to pursue a pro-Bitcoin agenda. He's going to pursue policies to make Bitcoin

go up. You know, and then they have this nonsense talk about we have an arms race, you know, we need to buy all this Bitcoin before the Chinese buy it, before the Russians buy it. They're laughing their heads off. They don't want this crap. Like like we need to buy it before other countries beat us to it. I mean, but it >> it's nothing. It's just so absolutely ridiculous. Yeah. >> A final topic. You already mentioned Warsh and uh and Volcker. So, you don't think Warsh is going to be a reincarnation of Volcker? He's not going to be able to do anything about Well, inflation now is relatively low, but let's say inflation indeed picks up.

Warsh will choose inflation

He's not able to do anything about it? >> Well, look, I don't think Trump would have nominated him if that was going to be the case. I mean, the reason he didn't want Powell was because Powell wasn't cutting rates enough. Why does he want a guy to hike rates? That'd be even worse than Powell, right? Plus, you know, Warsh said that central banks choose inflation, which is true. It is a choice. You don't have to create But, there's a reason that central bankers choose inflation. And for the same reasons, Warsh is going to make the same choice. Because if you don't choose inflation, you choose something else.

You choose a big drop in the stock market, a big drop in the real estate market, a sharp recession, a rise in unemployment, a financial crisis, and you force the government to slash spending or dramatically increase middle-class taxes, and the politicians don't want to do any of that. And the central bankers, they always want to be popular. They're they're not going to say, you know, we're going to have to take our tough medicine, you know, we're going to have you're going to have to lose all your money in your 401k, and your house home equity is going to have to go away, you might lose your job, but hey, that's what we need. We need tough love right now. They don't they don't do that. So, this is all BS. I mean, the only thing

they can do to fight inflation is talk. They they they have no bite, right? Uh so, they just got to show their teeth, and they've got to like, "Yeah, yeah, you know." Uh it's like the opposite of Teddy Roosevelt. They have We have no stick, so they have to speak loudly. And that is exactly what that what Warsh did, you know? And and so the markets are overreacting to his his his talk. they're they're not paying attention to the walk. >> Right. Final question, what's the most important thing we haven't discussed today? There's something that's on your mind that you really want to address for my viewers.

Yen, Iran and more

>> Oh, I I don't know. I mean it's early in the morning. I haven't really I think maybe the Japanese yen making a new 40-year low. I mean, you got to look at what's going on over there. That's That's because of debt. The problems with the yen are because of the problems with Japanese debt. We got a lot of debt, too, right? The big debtor nations are going to have a lot of problems. so that's there, you know, our the trade numbers are still horrific. Uh you know, the the tariffs didn't do anything to turn that around as I as I predicted. And now we've got the war, the on-again, off-again Iran war. That's going to cost us a fortune, too, even if there is no war. The peace is to maintain the peace that's going to cost us a fortune. War

we never should have started. I criticized it from day one. Uh not enough Republicans did because they rubber-stamped. They're afraid to go against Trump cuz he's he's very popular still within the Republican Party, but he's a lot less popular among independents, which is a big problem. And they're they're losing some Republicans. I mean, look at like Tucker Carlson. He's got a big following. And you know, he's he he you so a lot of his loyal supporters that had big followings there, you know, they they they don't support him anymore. And for good reason because he's, you know, he's he's he's basically backstabbed everybody, you know, on a lot of the stuff that he's done.

But anyway, but I I guess I would remind people to watch my podcast, the Peter Schiff Show. I'm going to I'll do one on July 3rd uh before the the holiday on Thursday. I'll probably going to do it cuz we have a jobs report coming out on July 3rd. So you can watch it on my YouTube channel, which is probably the way cuz I do them live with video, so you can see me. I'll be right here in my my my my home office in Connecticut. Um uh and you can go to schiffradio.com, but also follow me on social media. I'm the most active on X and I've got over a million and a half followers and it's growing every day, so follow me and encourage your friends so we can spread the word and you know, let people know

that there is an alternative perspective out there. I I talk about the markets, uh economics, politics, you know, trying to spread the gospel of free market capitalism and limited government and sound money and and kind of uh expose uh the myths uh that the government and Wall Street, you know, keep uh keep spreading. Uh so but I'm I'm on Facebook, I'm on Instagram, I'm on uh TikTok, so all the social media platforms I've got content, so try to find me and then just, you know, follow me. >> Yeah, well, they they will find you. I've been following you for 18 plus years by now, so thanks so much for for everything you do, Peter, and for your energy and your insights. So always a pleasure to talk to you. Uh >> All right.

Outro

>> Go get some food. talk to you next time. >> Have a breakfast. >> Okay. >> Bye-bye. >> See you later. Bye.