PEER-TO-PEER RPC with Yair Cleper of Lava Network

Transcript

we're live my guest today is yair klepper he is the CEO and co-founder of lava Network it's the Uber for blockchain data in today's conversation we'll discuss why rpcs are so important to crypto and why they're also essential choke point for web3 we'll talk about an RPC marketplace where data providers and node Runners can provide their RPC nodes to users we'll talk about how they incentivize quality and quality of service for node Runners and we'll talk about how lava achieves all this as a cosmos chain I'm also dying to find out why he thinks decentralization is a tool not the goal so before we go get started make sure to

hit the like button hit notification Bell And subscribe to get notified when I go live every week and remember that none of what we discussed here on the Internet is investment advice and if you like this podcast you should consider sticking with us we're validating on evmos Quicksilver osmosis and Juno just look for interop in the active set my guest year is coming up desks right here on the interop [Music] ER hello hello there was a bit of a tongue

twister my guest year is coming up and I sort of said yets and sort of like yes is it like now in German before we start I uh my name is always tricky in every language right yeah I'm just giving one American Guy taught me this and since then always the same my name is better pronounced when you say yeah and ear Ya Ear yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah well how you doing how is everything uh going since uh I last saw you at nebula Summit is it August like I feel so much work you know I I I don't know uh like some people told me vacation you know summer time but uh there's a lot of things happening uh you know things

exciting things um being into crypto with uh with lava over a year and that's insane insane feels like a few years yeah I I feel you I mean time passes in crypto super fast and certainly Summer's uh pass even faster and that's the case now I don't know if you're if you've had some time to take vacation but uh we've been just like plugging through all summer and uh I just didn't even see the summer go by don't be wrong I'm a great believer of work-life balance yeah with a great priority of that in Israel um you know I wish it would be translated because it's like you're laughing uh you're laughing your

guts out basically so um yeah I know I'm taking some time recharge uh but also know how to shift gears when the time is right yeah of course so I want to start a little bit with your background like you have a really interesting past I feel because before getting into crypto you've had several companies um and uh that had nothing to do with crypto I think you were doing like an e-commerce sort of company before so yeah how did you arrive at building lava uh which is I think very different from uh from your past yeah so I um you know I'm a computer engineer and I was in a special program in the Army um in Israel

and all my life I was surrounded by um techy things you know like I was building things I was developing um I started my first startup when I was 21. um and that was in uh kind of uh uh a tool to build websites on flash 2009 uh uh and we we sold this startup three years later and you know I rolled out to the next next venture which was fintech afterwards I had the augmented reality um business intelligence and obviously supermarkets and in every startup usually I I try to build the

first POC the first technology the first to understand what's what's the right stack and always curious about technology uh especially especially um because what I study but you know I I was all the time next to web3 next to crypto next to the the white paper of Bitcoin next to vitalik as an intern in etoro 2014. um speaking one-on-one with him what all the time missing that icos also in Israel we had a couple of great success there yeah of course two years ago um

I uh you know I uh was phasing out from my last my last Venture six years as a solo founder just a disclaimer not never suggested to anyone um but we reached an amazing thing with the checkout it was not really an e-commerce but it was a physical checkout for supermarkets so slow pacing Cycles long time to deploy and I just woke up exactly two years ago July August uh talking with my co-founder which is my best friend about Mev um Dex Arbitrage a lot of opportunities in crypto

and me as the first Bitcoin ethereum buying a year late a year earlier so 2020 um I felt okay there is something happening here there is something big that I was kind of uh ignoring in the last few years and and yeah I dive we dive right into it you know we I started looking in this YouTube video channel it's called cinematics uh could not stop I met my friend from Danny adlin from curve uh told me about how they ended up selling to PayPal and how there is so much Innovation on one hand but use cases that are waiting to explode on the other

hand so my first crypto conference was in Solana breakpoint 2021 no it's a good studies that seems so like yesterday and yeah the old times high of the industry yeah of course interesting point who met crazy people there from Cosmos people to dokon to like and like you know all the biggest all the biggest uh projects and players and got the gist of what we want to build and how we started lava cool yeah I mean that's a that's exactly the conference when I decided that I

would uh I would focus on launching a fund so um yeah I've had sort of a similar trajectory uh since uh since that conference um very cool yeah so I mean you guys are now a team of like I think over 30 people um almost killing almost 40 building lava which is really impressive like how how do you scale so fast and you know um what's the um how how many Engineers you have like compared to like business people or maybe marketing or what's the what's the breakdown so you know both me and Gil my co-founder uh we are super techie we were building initiative before Gil was selling his cyber security companies

uh in 2017 is one of the most brilliant reverse engineer I've ever worked with and obviously we have a very good Network people see our success successes in the past people want to work I think with entrepreneurs that bringing New Vision and we were really humble and overwhelmed also by by the scale if you remember last year when we started uh it was still the shifting into the bear Market and people were still earning a lot uh and you know we always say that the people we're working with ex-cyber security Engineers top researchers cryptographers they're like a football soccer player

um they want a big contract they they like to work around the clock uh and dedicate themselves to a vision but it's very hard to bring them and I think what we were able to crack is first of all make them believe in the vision we surround ourselves from the get-go with amazing Partners amazing VCS angels ogs that started helping us to spread the world what is it to build an up chain in L1 what is it to build the crypto project and once we identify this Gap I think first of all recruiting the engineers recruiting those super talented people

um was helping us while we made sure that they understand division they understand where we can be they see the the huge company the other centralized provider the other um crypto project that did 10 10 000 x a year and they understand that the future belongs here community-led protocol exactly something that we build in love so I think it took us six months to get to 30 people and almost 26 Engineers uh we scaled afterwards obviously beefed up the marketing the project the business departments

and I think we have we're creating a family that's another goal it's another aspect that I'm always saying while we are in a hiring process you stay with us you stay with the people with your colleagues in lava more than you spending time in with the family you know unfortunately we're all work colleague and this is why we want to have the family Vibes this is why we dedicate a lot of our time last year to build the community around this thing called lava great it's super cool and uh I can't wait to uh I can't wait to go to Tel Aviv and go go meet that big family um so let's talk a little bit about

um yeah what what is the problem you guys are solving here because I think it's a really interesting problem I actually spent a little bit of time you know researching this problem like two or three years ago I was doing some Consulting work with uh with like a node Runner and it's something that I encountered back then which I I didn't realize was the case was that a lot of blockchain protocols like D5 protocols and stuff they're like they're running uh they're they're running nodes and they're running infrastructure now this was for ethereum it's a little bit different in Cosmos but but I realized that a lot of teams they were running all the apis and everything for their front end and I was like well this is kind of weird right like I mean you'd want this to be decentralized and this is where I think like protocols like the

graph uh tried to solve this problem now you know lava is a little bit different because you know your your your first product is um is addressing the RPC uh the issue with rpcs which we'll we'll talk about in a sec but you know it also extends to um to more generalized blockchain data like like apis so can you describe here like what what is the core problem with rpcs and why is it such an important point of the blockchain stack so it's amazing but you know many people in the industry they heard about the RPC but they they don't really understand how important is RPC like RPC is the basic way uh that all all apps talk with

the blockchain every transaction every message every piece of data sent and received um it's all enabled through a protocol called RPC remote procedure code and there is so much useful data that any ecosystem can get from that um how many projects are building on a chain how many users and stuff like that so once you you need you need to understand that every developer every project coming to an ecosystem they start working with this RPC so RPC today obviously the first option is to run your own node right you can run your own node get access read write transaction

from the blockchain and then you don't need anyone but as Moxie said nobody today wanted to um run their own computer nobody today want to run their own nodes so obviously once there was such a such a growth so much demand for different ecosystem and we all believe in the multi-chain those centralized provided appeared and those those companies really reduce the barrier to entry for everyone wanted to get data read write from the blockchain and they said something simple we gonna run the notes for you so if you needed to run the node

get access um accept the consensus of every chain um we're gonna run it to you we're gonna run the RPC nodes uh for you and we will behave we'll be um we will do it as a middleman and this is one of the gaps that for us at the beginning was super surprising like you know we coming to crypto we came to crypto to develop a lot of amazing apps uh but understanding the great values that there is in web 3. and we felt that there is a violation a core violation of all the values of web3 because if you

trust the middlemen you have a single point of failure when one of the provider is down suddenly you cannot get you can you don't see your uh account balance in your wallet uh that using those centralized provider to get the data from the blockchain your start hearing about things like uh tornado cash you know censorship um you you see this you know um this problem of data accuracy how do you know the data is from The blockchain Who proves you that maybe this spot price is not even up to date there's seem there's been a lot of DNS hijacking over the last year uh of people really manipulating the data not

talking even not being are irresponsible to the data up to date it's even manipulating the data and obviously the Privacy we've seen that uh metamask is collecting the information and you know as all web 2 companies many times they selling that to third parties so this is the first thing we wanted to address how come how we build a standard how we build a community-led protocol a real public good that everyone can use and benefit and this is when we realize that creating lava is the solution for that

um yeah yeah that's that's that's a a great way to describe the so the problem is that when you're when you're communicating I mean RPC is not really the thing you want I mean what you want is you want access to the node right so if you're initiating a transaction with a metamask wallet or a Kepler wallet like you want access to the node RPC is the protocol through which the those the node and the wallet communicates while it sends the transactions through the node through our PC if you're if you want to run your own so the thing is with with blockchains the vision was always I think for a lot of protocols you know the idea was always okay people will run their own notes it's going to be trivial to run their own nodes and I think like with Cosmos when when Cosmos first first

launched you know there were some professional ballot errors but everybody was just kind of figuring things out right so um people were professionalizing but I think over time as um as a as blockchain ecosystems grow they the infrastructure providers tend to specialize and they specialize because it reduces costs it reduces um it approves quality of service and those are the no providers that tend to uh to gain the most uh delegators for instance so this is the case in staking for instance right but for this is the same for for node providers and RPC like you don't want to run your own node I mean that like takes a lot of time uh you want to make sure that like that

node will stay up and everything and so it's it's it was like a natural progression that rpcs would also specialize and become sort of this thing that is provided by other companies and like you know we know of companies like Alchemy and infuria in ethereum that do a lot of RPC providing in Cosmos it's a little bit different though because in Cosmos we don't really have those those companies right like that we don't have like an Alchemy in COs in Cosmos as far as I know um and typically I think what happens is validators will run rpcs and like foundations will I've heard foundations like The Interchange Foundation or like the atmos Foundation or any blockchain foundation will uh will give a grant to

um or pay our uh validators who know how to run infrastructure to run their RPC nodes is that is that an accurate representation of How rpcs are um are delivered in Cosmos so you know I like what you said I I will uh I will address something you mentioned the beginning the Uber for RPC um and obviously one thing that is a misconception now when we're speaking with a lot of ecosystem we see um validator that also running RPC and it should be very clear that um the same validator node that is being run should not be the same rpcino right um

to make sure I mean validator like infrastructure providers exactly yeah yeah but but you know was uh kind of hinted from what you said is that validators anyway running validator nodes so they're going to do the RPC but this is a common misconception that once we go to ecosystem we say by the way is it the same node or PC node and the validator node that they run and we see that a lot of ecosystems don't have these insights so that's one of the misconception but think about that that there's a lot of RPC providers like that have a spare capacity and monetize their resources much better um

if if there's going to be a Marketplace for that so today we can agree that it's not allocated efficient not original not gerocation efficiently the rewards are not uh distributed efficient efficiently and we think that if we incentivize more nodes and aggregate all the node service RPS into one protocol that pairs the needs from the adapts and the and the providers that's going to create a real public good so imagine that you have a global Uber for RPC if you want to request a taxi in the Uber app right is like sending an

RPC request to Lava so the Uber app will just look at a few things you know would the Uber driver that available who is the closest to you your location region-wise and who has the best rating according to what you need right because if you're doing real quickly swapping trading and you need honesty of the data you can just create the flag about that and you are willing to pay more to ensure that the data is accurate right so the same way that the lover protocol Pros application with the best node available so every node

that gets the RPC responses is constantly being scored speed up time accuracy and is more is more a providers that are pairing there so the protocol is super available right if one and one provider is down automatically rewriting to another provider and you know that the nodes are closed by according to your geolocation and obviously you can continue and come back to the same node provider that score highly before and you know one one of the good examples that we used about that that RPC is like a web web free Postman right

he's running across the city every transaction every message he delivery every piece of user data is sent or retrieved from the blockchain using this RPC code and think about lava as this Postman okay yeah lava the blockchain post man I like it another another great analogy aside from the Uber for blockchain data um so well who so let's let's let's take a step back here and just look at that lava network uh so lava is a cosmos chain uh it has its own validators so we know like those are the those are network participants and then it has

um a network of node Runners that may be running nodes on different chains um so we know that can you expand a little bit on like of course um these these different uh these different participants and you know might those node Runners also be running infrastructure for lava as in like validating for lava um yeah so you know one of the we've seen a lot of amazing projects in the past you mentioned the graph the other uh other protocols that try to do something similar and we try to learn where was their drawbacks and so in lava we try to keep it simple approach uh we have providers we have uh consumers daps and we have validators

none of those three is to overlap the other validator can run on only validating only do validating to Lava make sure keep the honesty of the chain make sure that if there is a dispute or conflict or a detection they know how to solve it they know how to score the the different providers providers should run at least the full node in any other dedicated chain so for example I'm running arbitrum chain everyone who needs arbitrum data automatically will be paired to you um and I can support as many nodes as I need as I want as a provider again I

don't need to be a validator I don't need to be a provider that's two separate entities and the last one is a consumer we are flexible in love and that's one of the core values we're bringing um so lava is actually divided into few different categories when coming to Consumers we have a pairing we have the quality management or quality of scoring the insights and the settlement for the RPC so if you want to use the lava if you want to read write data you can use whether our Gateway or the SDK installing the SDK means that directly from the browser you get access

to all web 3 because remember once we're going to do the minute you know it's a public good everyone can join and start providing his own uh spec his own integration four different l1's l2s every ecosystem this is also why we chose Cosmos and Cosmo says Decay tendermint because of the flexibility and The Proven record track record of scalability for different protocols the second thing is uh the pairing so we have we at lava has a algorithm that always paired Developers

the consumers with the best node that is available uh constantly um we're looking at parameters such as uptime sync latency geolocation and rating once this pairing has been made think that the DAP has now a list of different uh providers that they are constantly speaking with him peer-to-peer so no overlatency is being caused here and um I think that it's important to mention one of the key Novelties here quality control every client on lava is actually scoring constantly the provider for the session

of the data that was transmitted so over time those scores influence like which provider you as a consumer will be paired in the future and this quarter we also introducing that a clustering to per consumer together who like similar providers kind of an analogies or profiling the same different providers uh the third point is about what we call a analytics insights so you know RPC as you said is uh the fundamental communication protocol for every developer in web free and look how much data or metadata they ecosystem are missing

today because they don't know what's going on there not in the public RPC not what's going on with every provider in the chain speak you spoke about Cosmos how fragmented is the ecosystem and how so many pro different providers they have but think if you have one protocol that can is it's kind of a one a shared Ledger with equal access for every developer and obviously the most Innovative product wins so lava lets you see where users in the ecosystem making relay requests from which geolocation what are they building what kind of uh API is called or RPC they are looking for

and how many end user finally a chain has think about this insight the last thing about lava is obviously the settlement layer if I'm today a centralized provider at the end of the month I need to run after each and every one of the mic user my dapps while in lava we present a settlement layer it's every single provider has the opportunity to earn the rewards only by being listed on lava it takes five minutes listing yourself and and you're getting the rewards for offering a high quality service no need anymore to start running after the end user they

have subscription fees for lava and lava is taking care of the protocol for giving all the rewards and settlement at the end of the month and that's why I think at the end of the day in average RPC provider Community provider super user of specific specific ecosystem have much better chance to play against a large provider we give the the the power to reach more developer just by being good in what in what you do in in your existing and leveraging your existing infrastructure so imagine a developer

that running nodes on evmos from uh you know from India can list his existing infrastructure his existing node on lava and start receiving from 200 up to two thousand dollars a month just for that I hope it's kind of yeah no that's fair I mean I I'm I'm really looking forward to see you know when lava launches um all this playing out in real time and you know how how much money people are actually making from um uh from running infrastructure versus like their server costs because I mean I think there's there are yeah by the way we're already live on testnet yeah yeah of course but like first and

you know more than 200 providers with 15 more than 1500 the validate was already on the chain yeah I mean like um what sorry what I meant was like when when there's like you know lots of mainnet chains on uh um on uh on on lava that are that are using this infrastructure the thing like so if you look at Uber for example um Uber I think when it started back in like 2010 there was very little demand for it and it was it was seen as sort of premium service um you would pay a little bit more or I think for the than a taxi and um and drivers were making we're making

money right and then over time Uber has become a commodity um a driver is is more of a commodity I guess drivers are driving with many different apps uh they're not really making money I mean they're making like very little money so I wonder if over time like this this may also happen for node providers and then that often in that case no providers would have to tend towards special specialization um yeah so it'll be interesting to see how like how the market sort of like evolves but you touch a very uh very interesting and important Point like today RPC is a commodity it's you know it's it's clear however because it's a

commodity and because we're in a bear Market you see quotes between dapps and providers like crazy everyone wants to win so the quotes are reducing reducing reducing and it doesn't make sense today so the the competition today is on the price we want to take this all the providers accountable and bring the competition to the quality of service but if we think about Uber how they started think about all of these different cities that today they don't have any insight about what's going on in their core layer they don't have they cannot show you much better engagement of any user

in the community and think about this ecosystem what we're bringing to them those municipalities we're giving them the platform to kind of um bring the the power back to them because public RPC that's the first stop of every developer right and if we improve this user experience and we make the RPC reliable on the public RPC daps will enjoy a resilient a resilient chain and they don't need to start looking for different endpoints and alternative endpoints um so we come into every municipality like that and telling them look you have

the incentivized public RPC it's a platform that can bring the hundreds of providers that already there it makes sure that the dapps don't even think oh which provider I should make if they're coming from a different chain and kind of standardize the way RPC and apis today are being made um so yeah that that's that's kind of how we look uh in the same analogy to to Uber interesting um let's let's talk a little bit about the the different components here I want to talk about the SDK but um first I want to understand how you guys are doing the Like the quote the QRS

stuff right so understanding whether or not a node is um is withholding data the uptime and one thing I'm particularly kind of like curious about is like how do you ensure that a node is in this in a particular geography so like all that um that quality of service insurance uh how does lava achieve that and like what are some ways that uh you guys are innovating on um on the uh on the quality of service aspect so um you know when a node provider uh signing up on lava it said it's uh takes five minutes up to uh you know maximum of 30 minutes and we're constantly

improving that but the first listing their uh um they uh staking actually the the lava token in a specific geolocation so this is how we hold them accountable in this specific geolocation to provide the the data sorry how does that work exactly so like they're staking energy location yeah they're staking lava in a specific geolocation you know you are okay um that's the information that uh we that we collecting okay so they're sticking with a validator that has its node in a specific location no they don't have no they don't have to uh stake with the validator there is a

Docker okay so we we basically I can put the you know the dogs afterwards sure but I'm saying that this pairing is like once a once a provider is being paired to a user and this is being done the same way that centralized provided working today it's and so imagine that lava is the SDK bringing a fleet of node provider and the DAP is actually connected to this Fleet of nodes so each time obviously we're starting a session we call it the Epic

and this session is 15 minutes um and every 15 minutes we make sure uh that uh the session is live and obviously recollecting all the different parameters from there so you think about what's the latency how is the uptime sync and you know cons this the session could be uh um could be extended obviously after the 15 minutes for as much time and data that those player needs and at the end of the session once the DAP uh finished the transaction is signing over the transaction giving it back to the

provider the provider obviously automatically sending it to the validator in order to receive the rewards at the end of the months and this is one of the key Innovation here and we call it the subscription fees because it's not by um by session it's kind of we're bringing the SAS into the RP series API worlds so think about like a subscription packages for one month three months six months one year that dictates how much um uh what's the amount of relays compute units the requests per second

that we give to that every dapps can use and this settlement layer that I mentioned before is taking care of organizing all the rewards for each and every provider and providing the rewards at the end of the month payment is actually at the end of the month that's how on the one hand we're holding the we're holding the provider accountable for the performance in the service of the data today you know if one provider is like down what's usually dapps are doing is implementing a multi-vendor policy so they can they contacting or Contracting

several node providers and in addition to that they're doing a load balancer backup disaster recovery and I can continue with so many policies like that so lava is taking the burden of daps that needs to do that and when I mentioned before that we are live for already a few months um although although it's still the test net not the mainnet we see a decrease of 50 percent the amount of dabs need to pay on infrastructure because now they can take their existing infrastructure their existing resources and don't spend them on implementing the different

backing upload balance and stuff like that they don't need to contract many different providers they use the lava SDK or Gateway and they get access to all these providers while we're taking the burden of RPC off of their heads okay so it so yeah I I see what you're saying here so when you're a user and you you access lava it is giving you access to a list of RPC providers that have sort of staked right they've identified their node to be like in a specific

geolocation that uh information to increase the latency obviously right so so the the test there on the latency is so if I'm if I'm my node is in the U.S and I sign up on law but I say like I'm actually in Europe well I'm not going to be able to compete with all of the nodes that are actually based here in France ovh or hetzner or whatever because my node's over in the US and like that latency is going to be too high and and therefore like I'll I'll be pushed down to the bottom of the stack there so you're a set of eyes as a node to actually be in the geolocation that you are um we incentivize a node to give the

best performance right and what's important by the way it's very interesting because if suddenly there is a nft drop there is a mainnet airdrop in some rural location you know so it's gonna attract by supply and demand gonna track node provided to come up with infrastructure there because and and they can do it in few seconds so you know in Marketplace Dynamic pricing and stuff like that this is just the tip of what we can do with such a uh um you know global standard and um with regards to to freshness and and accuracy

um what what's the what's the way that you guys are checking for for accuracy of block data yes so today we we use a few algorithms to make sure that the data is accurate so we are starting from sampling every few transaction the same request that being sent to a specific uh provider we're sending it to couple of providers so um we make sure that the the quality and the accuracy of the data between the different um uh the different requests or the same requests and the different providers um the provider don't know the provider

doesn't know that he's being sample he's been randomly picked to use that and on and on WE increasing the scoring of every provider right and this is this is our tool this is our technique to maintain the freshness and obviously availability of the data so interesting you know um we look at different um zero knowledge proofs and other authentication methods in order to to improve all the time the accuracy of the data but that's how we start

cool so let's talk about the SDK a little bit more so so the SDK as far as I understand is like if you're a if you're an application if you're building a web app like you're building you know some dap uh the the SDK is going to sit in the DAP so basically the user is loading up the SDK and what's really interesting here is that the the user is getting matched to uh an infrastructure provider essentially as far as I understand in their browser right like I mean this this peer-to-peer matching is happening locally and so as a user I'm going up to an app that app is is connecting to Lava and determining on the spot what is the RPC or data provider that I should be uh

matched with based on all these parameters um how does like yeah can you talk a little bit more about how that works yeah no that's you know you you describe it perfectly uh perfectly well imagine and that's what we've been asked always at the beginning like is lava is is lava fast enough um you know Cosmos is but wait but wait doesn't this mean that you also need like lava also needs its own RPC and API I mean at some point there has to be some API right like are you also decentralizing the access to the lava Network um let me yeah you I understand why you take your your thought but um

what so lava doesn't see the date that's how we can uh make sure maintain full privacy and we care about the only data that we're processing is the pairing and scoring data okay so that's how we can make sure that they provider held accountable for what they bring uh they being score for the service and the apps get all the values of web 3 straight from the browser and that's why we build lava as a lazy blockchain you know the speed Isn't So crucial the only crucial thing is to make sure that they get impaired from the browser to the best closest uh um closest region the best performance

provider in the geolocation um so yeah that that's one very simple thing right but very crucial to understand how lavanot is not a middle tier it's not uh in the middle I think I get that lava's not the middle yeah but but but I mean you still have to connect to Lava like there's still that point where you're connecting to like a lava server and lava is doing this this matching no the SDK is an open source Yeah so basically um e holding in every region the exact uh list of providers that is available that are available

that their bargain right is available in the same region so when you think about you know I'm adapt I'm in uh England right now I'm in UK and I want to get access to a you know polygonode right so we know in every and every minute of time um to bring those top providers into your SDK into the web browser so you maintain the connection lava doesn't need to be in this flow and after a successful transaction when the consumer uh signed the transaction in their own time basically until the

end of the month when collecting the Payday the the paycheck day um that's the only time that they need to contact again lava to validate Us in order to receive the reward okay got it um okay that's super clear let's let's talk about this um this idea of like incentivized public RPC you gave a talk at a neighborhood Summit about this and um and you have a partnership with XLR and with evmos uh to provide public rpcs yeah what's the what's this idea of an incentivized public RPC and um what's the uh what's this partnership you have

definitely so I think you know we we mentioned the beginning we're super excited about XLR and Atmos there are many more other Partnerships coming up but lava has a new vision for the public RPC I'm let's say I'm a developer I want to build on top of axillar so I can run an axilla node I can use one of the centralized provider or I can use the public RPC but as I mentioned before public RPC is the is the backyard of every ecosystem I mean we want to bring back the insight and the power to this ecosystem so um we came up with the first product of lava

and this is a incentivized public RPC we believe that you know the core contributor the the tech use of the super users of every ecosystem are attacking so they're running already a node they're running a node for their own usage but we believe that if they can list the node on the incentivized public ROTC we start they can be monitored they can get monetization from ideal infrastructure that you know in idle time they don't use um so for ecosystem there are a couple of values that that lover brings

uh in terms of this IPR PC um we drastically improve the user experience if today it's a rate limit or stuff like that when you bring more and more provider obviously you increase the resiliency uh and Alternate you know to Alternative endpoints at the end of the day you reduced wasted spend think that every ecosystem will have a dashboard to monitor all the node provided in a community um and the ecosystem can track the quality of service that being and continue incentivizing that without wasting spend without need to spend

their own resources on running nodes for the for the ecosystem think about a easy one click distribution of payments at the end of the month we see that you mentioned in especially in Cosmos we see a lot of validators also running nodes and to claim the payments of the demands there's a lot of back and forth think that everything is on chain and lava provides this settlement layer to pay all the provider using a smart contract but this time it's based on the actual quality of service that we elaborated before um

on top of that we can bring also we bring also the 200 provider that already signing up um to Lava and think about the new ecosystem that has created their evm the non-evm um we can bring those providers in order to serve and join the join the join the the chain creating much more engagement grow the community like that so all the web 3 uh ideas to increase decentralization is from the node level um this is what we think

is a game changer for uh public RPC buy our new product that we call it incentivized public RPC this is the standard we try to push for every ecosystem right now and uh can you talk a little bit about the specifics of um like I think with fmos you guys have a grant program um or you're you're selected from the by by the by this grants program uh to to build this out um what does that mean really and like what's the roadmap for uh for launching um on fmos we're going to share the timeline very

soon so it should be uh live already during September um October and what we planning there is this allocation of different Rewards to list on the on the public RPC so once you're listing the rewards every node that being served is eligible to receive this this reward so it can start from a small uh any developer that's running one two nodes up to medium and even big companies that can be listed on lava on this uh iprpc to receive uh the payments at the end of the month but I think the

idea here is like much broader because we we want to be the RPC as a public good right so we want to be the number one provider on Cosmos everyone looking for RPC first of all coming to love making sure that they know they will get the quality of service they paying for we want to help Cosmos improve their product marketing but by giving better insights to every ecosystem that's starting to work with us this is how we start to work with the axillary evmos cool well looking forward to that um

so who who paid like at the end of the day who pays for lava I mean is it the user that's paying for lava and some sort of a transaction fee when they're interacting with with three or are the protocols paying uh subsidizing the access to the to the node um yeah what's the what's the economics look like so um obviously we think that as as more vibrant in more activity you can go in ecosystem um the more successful it will become so those ecosystem and those we we submitting run proposal a governance proposal and grants and every ecosystem

decides how much incentive they want to list for for the usage so obviously public RPC is uh is is a free tool right it's a free access to to every ecosystem and what what we're trying to bring is a better product it's a better public RPC for um uh for the devs that's starting to to build on top of that so um the ecosystem themselves can decide how much rewards they want in order to distribute among the provided every dap will enjoy at the end of the day a better scaling

uh um solution and once they want to go to the next level to a premium level they can buy more subscriptions directly from lava and that's that's that's the idea in general um we uh we're working on the exact fees that will be uh will be left on the subscription on on the lava subscription fees and packages uh but constantly what we see from ecosystem it's they're looking at bringing more activity to that not staying only in the RPC but taking it to also apis think that and and that's the example

you know we gave in nebular think that um wallet apis uh to Kepler um think about nft indexing apis the some developers on evmos that already developed them in one part of the globe but they can list those apis and by making that starting to receive royalties from everyone who's using that imagine lava as the IP apis a board that every uh every every developer can lease his own the API that already been developed

and make it bring activity to the Chain by doing that because obviously after they develop something for internal use and listed that and they receive rewards at the end of the month they're going to go and tell everyone on crypto Twitter or you know we say today cryptox um and we believe that this will create much more engagement for a vehicle system um so like let's talk about these apis for a little bit because I it seems to me like as uh as lava moves forward in its Vision so starting with our PCS and then apis

at some point like you I mean you can start providing say pricing data or this sort of thing like lava can become more like oracle-like um yeah what's your vision for how that might was that like a Terrain in which you want to expand or is like the API and RPC use case really what you want to stick to so yeah to towards the main net by the end of the year we have a big vision and that's keep evolving all the time think that you have a standout starting from RPC a lot of many provide

hundreds and thousands of different providers in different ecosystem validators on lava also that's validating on other places and you have a one source of Truth Pro ecosystem so as a Dev once I pay one-time subscription or lava I want to move from building from polygon to starkware to any Cosmos chain I can do it with one click so devs finally getting the the confidence that um they have a reliable resilient infrastructure to access web no more oh what's my quote here what's my quality

it's going to be balanced by the market supply and demand by the market Powers right so that's from the developer part but the provider's part imagine that you have a real thought of Truth for what's going on in every different L1 l2s real-time information um and everything is on chain so I just gave the gist and obviously we're going to expose slowly our big big plans but but this is exciting you know this is this is super exciting lava is an ecosystem is a community we see already now different types of

project being built on lava from Dev Dev tools devops tools obviously running node running validate or staking think about insights insight to ecosystem being from basic question to how many developers we have an ecosystem up to what's the top Trend you know crypto Twitter can say what's the top Trend because of the hashtag right how you can say in your Cosmos ecosystem what's the trend right now you basically cannot right yeah and this is only a gist of what will be the huge potential we can do with lava we're starting with RPC

that's the entry point we're going already to apis indexing wallet apis nfts and we're growing to a big ecosystem that's connecting between all the different layers of Earth yeah and absolutely I could see how you know once you have Integrations with things like axlr uh or or some other like ZK IBC you know cross ecosystem cross domain bridging solution uh it gets a lot easier to also Access Data from other ecosystems so like if you're on a cosmos chain and you know you want to access

ethereum data or something like that you you could do that um one of the things yeah just to add on top of that or just I feel they need the urge you know as an entrepreneur to put the pin in it um yeah today nobody's take Financial guarantee for the data you speak about one side which is accessing the data it's amazing yeah but what about the other side being accountable for this data and when you have obviously every provider on lava is receiving data because of the quality of service and because of the stake so more the stake more service they're likely to to use and think about you have a fleet

of financial um guarantees that take accountability over the data and they feel obliged to be to bring you the most accurate freshness available data what power it can it can it can create yeah absolutely um one thing I I don't want to understand here and maybe this is where Ashley comes in so you guys are running uh so people can already use lava they can go to the website they can like log in on the test net and they have access to something like 25 chains that you guys are providing rpcs for and some of

those things are Cosmos chains many of them are and others are like ethereum is on there they're a mainnet and there's some other uh evm chains I believe so as um what what's what's interesting here and I've I'd like to know maybe some of the technical complexities is that this is a this is an example of Cosmos infrastructure potentially being used by ethereum applications and the ethereum applications don't even need to I mean I don't think I mean do they do are is there any sort of like bridging that needs to happen for for that data to be accessible there like maybe when they're interacting with the lava chain or something or like how easy is it for ethereum chance to use this

super easy we support an AVM non-evm chains once we're going to be on mainnet everyone can provide a spec everyone can come up with their own needs requirements for integration listed that the governance proposal lava and someone from the community gonna quickly build that because they want to be the first to receive the rewards obviously if there is a demand you know for example dydx is coming now um to Cosmos metamask is coming uh you know metamax snap is actually around the corner um but yeah so what I want to say we support the multi-chain right we have a

clear visibility over the different chains but you don't need to do bridging uh uh in order to use lava you as a Dev who wants to write retransaction in specific ecosystem can simply do that by signing up online via Gateway or download the SDK and this is how we keep it very very simple right because obviously we're working on the um the uh the ux and UI of every of every um of every developer onboarding to this chain and um yeah you know I think that's kind of summarize uh answering the question

cool um so yeah what's the roadmap um how can people uh get started with lava maybe providing some node infrastructure maybe getting involved in the test net yeah so I'm uh you know we have a very Vibrant Community on Discord uh our uh our Twitter have so much information and and that's something amazing that is a kudos to the ecos the community and marketing team every time I'm showing up you know in a lava conference oh my God we love the content we love how technical can be the dogs but how simplified it could be and I think uh our Twitter and this code is a great

place to start we're inviting everyone from running OneNote to developer that just started and want to use a free free tier RPC service on 25 chains um to you know start using lava download the SDK hundreds of downloads we had only last week uh we just forked uh our last test net um when coming up with super amazing features some of them I mentioned today in the call and also we hiring so uh you know we continue expanding the team um especially now we are strengthening the sales so everyone around the sales partnership uh

worked with foundations um different dials l1s l2s please reach out uh we're looking for you and yeah the roadmap is uh we're working super strong on the minute it will come by the end of the year um teaser of a new version of SDK that's gonna make um you know if if the first SDK was a game changer because there's nothing like that in in web 3 so far so the next version of the SDK the performance usability will be crazy as I mentioned before provider can join five minutes up to 30

minutes sign up on lava validators are also invited and yeah this is how we create a Vibrant Community that's going to be a standard for any RPC API in web 3. great yeah thank you so much for uh for coming on and uh sharing the vision for lava I'm super excited about it and um yeah can't wait to see it go to maidenet and take over the RPC World in Cosmos and also Beyond so uh yeah I really enjoyed this conversation and you're welcome to come back on anytime thank you so much I'm inviting you to eat our course now [Music] um you want to know something I think I

think one of the best croissants I've ever had and I mean and I've had a lot of croissants was in Israel um there was there's I went to this brunch place and they made this like the massive like very crunchy buttery croissant and uh also like Ben Gideon Street I think in Paris and you mentioned everyone can skip all the discussion can come up for the last minute yeah you should send me this place or mention that yeah I think actually I think I I saved it but also into you all right I tell you I tell you in Israel we like to take things to the extreme everyone is giving great feedbacks about the food

and it was great yeah I really enjoyed the food in Israel and that's one of the reasons why I go back um thank you for the time thank you cheers all right