OP Stack & Optimism Superchain Update

Transcript

[Music] sup guys welcome back to the roll up another live stream today here with Rob in some um chat optimism builders on Stark net airdrop day what a odd coincidence um today we're GNA be talking a ton about the optimism Collective how these Builders are fitting in um get some get some good information some Alpha some opportunities um and yeah just kind of dive into some of the uh rollup landscape so without further Ado we'll

go through a quick round of intros and then jump right into it I can start with Jack and then Max and then go to Hillmar and James thanks for being here guys hey hey there there Andy thank you thank you for for for you know making me here making me be here and uh so rout scan is a block Explorer platform and it's spun off from Ava scan the leading Avalanche Explorer and actually we are here for our brand for the optimism Collective that is the super scan so the super scan is the unified block Explorer for uh for the uh super chain that is including mode and Lisk that are upcoming so I can

now announce you know we announce some Alpha James uh we actually um built mode scan that is the uh block Explorer for mode both testet and mainnet it will be announced uh you know formally on social media in the next few days and it will be you know available for in production in a in a it is already available you know you can already use it but it will be for available in a few days Alpha drop before we even get through all the intros let's let's keep it going back how can I beat that hey guys thanks for having me my name is Max C I'm the founder of Lisk and I started in crypto 2012 so I'm here since quite a while

know some of you guys since many many years already and happy to be here happy to reveal some Al for myself tonight and yeah looking forward to the next hour awesome should I should I take over I guess so hi guys I'm I'm hmer I'm one of the founders of gelato H gelato is web fre sweetest roll service platform and what we do is we help projects launch they're fully managed Enterprise grade layer to blockchain such as op blockchains part of the super chain um and yeah in addition to that uh in addition to like running and operating rollups l2s we are one of the most widely used web fre middleware service platform that does anything from

like smart contract automation to web three functions that give you access dochain data and account struction for a great sort of user experience so yeah super happy to be here hey everyone I'm James founder of mode um our focus is on building out new def products and Innovative defi infrastructure for optimism super chain uh mode launched two weeks ago and um we've already seen some pretty significant growth so yeah check out uh mode Network on Twitter um and excited to chat more and uh yeah already working with the guys here and happy to chat

yeah to discuss more exciting stuff that's coming soon and today James was the last day of the uh of the uh of the boosted campaign right other seven days yeah I mean uh yeah there's still there's an announcement coming today so uh there's still much more fun to be had but um yeah we fixed up some stuff and uh the campaign is going to continue running um so yeah we'll have more info going out on that later today nice yeah it seems like um so kind of layer twos C came about in you know 2021 I think or 2020 is really I think like um arbitrum kind of pioneered the

way as as far as some of the ogs there was some priors and I think a lot of like the kind of shifts have now pushed into optimism and and pushed into different um you know stacks and I don't know guys like Stark knet dropped today like H how how are we feeling about layer twos and I guess Max is probably a great um answer for this one like where is the uh why why did you guys come on to um a lay or two with um gelato and kind of what is what kind of pushed you guys here um I feel pretty good about future of that I have seen the space grow over the last few years and we built for eight years a platform for side chains

and realize that independent blockchains will not have a very big future but rather it's much better to rely on the security of probably the best blockchain ethereum and uh therefore we made the very decision to Pivot from a layer one to a layer two but the past few weeks and months have really shown us that this was the best possible for us because finally I can work with my friends of many years here HMA and James together and get this show going and really start contributing to the space because as a layer one you always well on the one side have to do everything yourself but you're also always against everyone else and now being for over one

decade in space I can finally work together with other people instead of kind of against other people our ethos was always actually to collaborate and to bring something good to the space but still as one I have to say it felt really really different then now as a layer to now we can work together with so many partners work on so many Integrations speak to so many developers in this industry and finally go to the biggest conferences and be one of them so and yeah working with gilat here together was f a no-brainer I mean I know hman now since I think seven years and we hang out previously at meets in Berlin together and see each regularly and me it was always

about providing the least friction for developers and I think with what gelato built there over the last years they the perfect partner for rollup as service platform so we yeah chose them it was all they're the best and I'm really looking forward to the coming years with them Yo Max I don't know if um if you can switch to a different mic whoa how did you do that that was that but the uh the audio got a little choppy in between um in between sentences so may if you just want to go on mute for a second try to switch it up um but uh yeah Hilmar we're curious to hear from your perspective as well um obviously gelato is launching a ton of different um app

Civic chains there's some some Alpha coming up with some Innovative type of rollups but uh let's start with uh the experience of launching Lisk and when can we expect Lisk to go live well I think that's probably a question for for Mark for Max to sort of answer I don't want to um take anything away here from him but I think yeah I've been we've been in conversations and a lot of calls with the list team as well as with the optimism team and I think there's a really pretty exciting goto Market strategy here and I fully subscribe to this H narrative around like working together and like the beautiful thing about the super chain and like l2s in general is that uh you

don't have to sort of do all the work sort of yourself here uh let say you are interconnected with like a Bas and Bas has a really amazing on and off ramp to coinbase right and then via like the future of the super chain um at some point when you have more sort of cross uh chain communication as well being enabled you will directly benefit as part of that ecosystem right and um and and L I think has a really interesting quite unique sort of Target user group that yeah I'm not sure like how much is public so I will like Max talk about this but um I think um sort of them focusing on this this side of like the global market and let's say like a base or like a mode focusing on like a

different source of the markets really then brings together like a a huge ecosystem that everyone can share and and leverage together and I think this is yeah our mission is always or has been accelerated adoption of web 3 in general and I think this is how you do it right you don't sort of build the same thing all over again you collaborate and and and and all sort of conquer different pieces of the world and I think that's that makes me just excited about the the idea in General Omar I noticed now that your shirt is it's not Dior and it's not do your own research it's do your own rollup so like what is what is the thesis behind like you know a lot a lot of the every I think everyone here is

like a contributor to the optimism super chain like what's the thesis between launching an L2 on the super chain and then something more like specific like an app specific rollup like when when someone is launching their own chain what what are some of the design choices and the thoughts that kind of go go through you know a builder's mind yeah um I think um yeah just sort of like let's say being part of the super chain and it it's it's mostly like there's a lot of sort of small technical details here I think I'm not sure how deep I want to go into each of them but um it is very specific to what is most valuable to the specific project right for list for example I think um like being part of the super chain really

being able to focus on a specific Target Target group and then intra being interoperable with like the basis of the world for example I think it's really important and key right and so for them like being really compatible and and part of super chain and then and sort of following um together with the others like one cohesive Tex stag and narrative I think is the is the perfect solution right or is is the right approach here in order to go to market and there are of course other um um projects that say applications that have much more sort of custom requirements in terms of tax stxs like they want to have the cheapest data availability they want to have um the fastest block times they want to have zero gas uh because they might charge in

different ways on their rooll up right they maybe are only perex and they might only want to charge per trade so so they are right now breaking compatibility a bit with an other providers and they are not like they're not their focus is not entirely only of on this interoperability between other chains right they just want to do kind of like their own thing so it really depends on what the H what the actual goals of the projects are and then and sort of what they want to do and what we are seeing is there's a sort of Fairly broad variety of either you want to go like super custom on your app and you want to make this chain perfect for your app or you want to be more less ecosystem you want to be interoperable with all the other ecosystem and re focus on the

targets s of audience that you then acquire and bring to this wider super chain I think these are the two sort of Trends we are seeing and and both have their pros and cons and merits um but yeah the the choices within this modular blockchain world right there are a lot of choices a lot of configuration that's cool and everyone can pick and choose what is working best for them yeah what one of the most advantageous things about building in the super chain I think is going to be some of the shared like interoperability tools like Jack I want to involve you here because like it just occurred to me now I'm just realizing that a block Explorer is almost like an interrupt solution especially when you're able to combine blockchains like almost like a block explor aggregator and there's like there's a lot of memes going around

about like interoperability Solutions like kind of like combining blockchains into like a like a meta blockchain and like a mega blockchain so what is what is kind of like your perspective on interop and then more specifically like your perspective on interop within the superch chain network of chains so in general interoperability is um like is the path you know is the goal for everyone but it is so hard you know um you know first you have the challenge of making inability work between different viral machines so like between chains that have different operating systems so they so they use different interfaces and and and that is the

biggest right now the like some challenges are as I was saying know before we we we we launched the live stream like I have a wallet and it's it's it's hard when for example when when you go to like Solana if you want to bridge Solana from um from Solana to ethereum and you need to connect with both the destination and the origin wallet because you there's different um path derivations so you need to have um two different systems to actually um create the public keys and and so the basic idea is that those two are very very hard interpretability challenges um and the

second one is uh between different EVMS so um while from the different VMS is like a um a technological it's a pure Tech stack problem from different EVMS between themselves is more of a like social cultural political problems um that can arise uh Al you know tech tech problems yes um but it's um most of EVMS don't want to have Tech problems between them so for example right now we have you know we've been talking to like tens of of blockchains in the past few months

and like only a couple said to us that they're not fully evm equivalent fully evm equivalent means that that the the Basic G node end points produce the same output so like the debug TR by block or the E get get block or other end points produce the same output the same Json um the same data they may be they may be parsed in different ways but you know they produce the same data and this is not a problem on EDM so like a lot of a lot of guy a lot of chains want to have the same tooling from metamask from they don't want to like develop metamask snap or anything so the the tech stack is pretty

much every you know every every everyone the same but there are some chains that have multiple like additions for example if you want to go to the Super chain the super chain has like the the the optimistic rollup setup USA but that is very different from the ones that you have from chains that are be on top of the op stack um framework that is not the same um for example there's a very nice um nice anecdote that I can say like a lot of the op stack chains so the chains that are not on the super chain are actually built on a or on an OP not

not on the original op stack framework but on the mental version of the op stack that means that sometimes you get like very you get some like difficult integration U challenges and so interoperability is really really key in like having the same standardized way of um outputting data you know we come from Avalanche and Avalanche right now there is just one type of like um chain development kit that you can have that it's subnet evm you can create a subnet with uh with evm um virtual machine and that means that we can integrate your chain in like two hours that is because

even if you don't have gas even if you have different types of um like if you if you bundle transactions within the within the consensus like public exchange is doing uh you don't need for us to give us anything like we just Fork it from subate evm we just interface with that and that is really key and we are seeing that um for chains that um are opting into the Super chain that is the same like the the the lead time to integrate op was roughly the same that base and then it was even faster like for mod we took like two days to integrate mode uh with with all the main net and test net and you know with Lisk know we're doing something I cannot

share more marks but you know we're doing something and so um so the standardized Jack yes like it's like like once you get the uh but isn't yeah that's kind of like the beauty of the op stack like like James Z and Max both like it was like you get to build in op stack hopefully you get optimism to kind of support you right and I know that mode has got some awesome support from optimism which we'll dive into and then you get the standardized Tech stack you get the communities Network effects you get um block explorers like supercan um and so kind of like standardizing all all these parts as as as you're saying Jack specifically for interoperability it kind of then takes it to the next level as well Max simple agree kind of

like yeah yeah totally I mean uh it's so important to have standards but unfortunately there's a financial incentive to do your own thing and that's why since ever in crypto so we always see everyone is doing their own thing fing away launching their own chain uh not building on existing standards because differentiation means maybe a higher market cap and I think now with the opst de finally a tool emerged which is good enough to become a standard and I mean with the huge interest in it we really see that now finally in some sense we can solve the fragmentation of everyone's doing their

own thing by letting them all use a common tool and with so many big projects coming on board and optimism having the best culture like probably in the industry in terms of building this thing together out I think we can really get somewhere very very nice with it so when may net when when Lisk live for our our our lovely community so we're launching still our test net uh this month so this was not revealed yet uh when exactly but we already set the month so it's coming very soon and then the first thing for us is actually to reveal more information about our Layer Two what do we actually want to focus on um it will

be different than previously we learned a lot and also we need to to find our own place in the optimism ecosystem and I think we do that very nicely and we currently targeting then the developer main net launch for April so we're moving fast we are able to move fast thanks to gelato and the great uh like work the optimism team did with their SDK so I think uh this year will be very interesting for us nice nice want to pass it over to James as well James I think that the way that mode launch kind of um I'm not gonna say followed but there's a there's a class of new l2s blast Manta mode and

I'm sure we're going to see more now because there's been success with like growth of tvl in this Innovative way of kind of like incentivized native yield um under um kind of different types of campaigns um you know curious to hear you your experience launching through the optimism stack I know that you know there's been some trials and tribulations but excited to see that um you know you brought it to mainnet so and some you know Reflections on the launch and um yeah yeah I think uh in general like um for us like I mean for anyone launching an L2 now right you need to unless you've raised a significant amount of money like 20 mil plus um you should

launch through a partner um I don't think that like building your own stack is uh the right decision um and I think like we've seen the last few years like a huge amount of innovation uh amongst l2s like within the stack and now need to see like Innovation on go to market and how do we get this technology um into the hands of like real people and for that we need to run like thousands and thousands of different experiments and we need to see what resonates with users um and the thing which seems to resonate with users right now especially in the current market environment is uh different opportunities to ear yield on eth this

is a huge one different opportunities to earn yield on stable coins um restating is a huge narrative as well and essentially like l2s that are focusing on these narratives and focusing on uh you know lower cost solutions to be able to like restake your e are doing really well so um yeah that's also a big Focus area of ours and yeah I think the launch has gone well for us we still have like a lot of products to release of our Partnerships to announce so um yeah we're just trying to focus on building um we launch with like yeah I guess a similar mechanism to blast um and Manta we've tried to do something more complex

uh with our point system which essentially is uh incentivizing people to actually use ecosystem products another key differenti here is that we're not um locking people's Capital so if people want to bridge off they can Bridge off um because yeah we think this is more sustainable um longer term like if we don't have good opportunities and interesting applications then why should someone just have their Capital stuck on mode right they shouldn't um and again like when it comes to thinking from day one of like how can we build something that's

interoperable um we have to take these considerations into account right like if we wanted to have our own yield bearing tokens um like our own yield bearing e then you're bring stable coin as the core uh stable coin of mode for example it was a USD mode um this could potentially down the line cause problems if we want to be interoperable with like Lisk right because they might say well no we don't like that stable coin is not going to work in our ecosystem right like rightfully um so there's a lot of design design decisions as well around this like if we're bringing uh LST and L to mode like what does that look like in

like a future where things interoperable between chains right we can't just necessarily bundle it all up into one token we have to have different options for users so yeah lots more coming on this in the the next next month or so um and yeah really our goal is like how can we provide like a range of yield opportunities with different risk profiles make sure that that's very clear um for users to understand and then they also added benefit of like uh a defi ecosystem where you can do things like lend your assets borrow um leverage them use different protocols um and yeah lots of exciting stuff is being built around that we've been live like two weeks and there's already been some cool

stuff deployed we very much focused on like our native defa ecosystem right now so um yeah lots of work to be done to continue to scale this nice got a couple follow-ups briefly um first that I think that building up the DAP layer is a huge differentiator as well as not locking Capital um but um recently you guys were just uh handsomely rewarded and um rightfully so from a optimism Grant effectively for for Builders to kind of keep um you know creating really dope on in the collective um and so I think you guys got maybe like two million ARB or something like that maybe a little bit

more or less um 2lion op yeah Jesus oh my God I'm sorry boys um classic head is in the gutter um so curious kind of what you what you are thinking about that as far as potential user incentives or um incentives to attract more liquidity or um Builders developers kind of where do you where do you see the key Focus for um expenditures um and kind of growth yeah I mean like it's it's definitely a significant amount for us like we we have some Milestones attached to that so it's not just like here it is go crazy um it's very much like we yeah we have to uh think about like

strategically how we can we can use that Capital um a key part of this is like Integrations um possible like uh Integrations with Partners like gelato or other types of partners that Supply middleware is something we can uh consider um long-term developer incentives as well um but like we've tried to build a lot of these incentive models into like the mode uh token and the mode model um so this is like a nice like addition to that um and yeah like the the current agreement uh with like super chain teams is um you know you contribute some of your sequencer fee

profits back to the collective um this is then used to fund things like public goods and uh yeah then uh if you show like uh you know developer activity and activity on chain then there's also like other funding mechanisms um available so yeah for us it's been it's been super useful especially like more as a signal because yeah we haven't gone and done like crazy Venture rounds um we've been like we've been like purposefully trying to focus on um uh yeah being like Community First developer first so uh for this it's been super super helpful and yeah we haven't spent

anything yet so we uh we we definitely going to think about the most optimal way to distribute it gotcha cool um appreciate that I'm kind of uh shifting back into the broader super chain um gonna pass it over to hillmore curious kind of from your perspective being a a Ras provider a rollup as a service provider you know it's kind of your duty to be agnostic right like you know you want to provide the best solution for what the Builder wants regardless of of the stack um so I'm curious kind of when it comes to launching with with Lisk um why you guys came to to decide to build on the super

chain why that was the better choice rather than something like I'm not sure like a like a polygon cdk or like a you know insert stack here so curious from yours and Max's perspective as well sure um I think maybe I can talk a bit on of the about the technical sort of reasons here um I think the beauty of modular sort of blockchains right is that it's modular right so there are multiple options available for data availability the execution layer even the potential settlement layer and so on right so whatever um the project and the application the sites is the best for their soort desired outcome and outcomes

are not only like what is best from a Technologic point of view but also from an ecosystem point of view and a goto Market point of view as James said right I think we need more goto Market Innovation I fully sort of agree with that um but I think like the for me or how I where I see like the beauty of um your P stack is in its Simplicity um and uh simple stacks are just like very easy to work with very straightforward um and make um especially if like everyone is compatible with each other and everyone follows the same sort of rules and configurations this just makes their life in this modular world where everyone can go crazy so much easier right and and things work right nothing

just like unexpectedly breaks like obviously bucks can always happen right but um there are for sure U more complex Stacks out there right which which are very harder to reason about which add more complexity which make it also hard like if you have a simple core like from a technology point of view like the best products are simple now the hearts come back the best products are simple and then you just build complexity in the periphery right but at the core there simple and I think that's the that's the beauty of the op stack um and the super chain and I think that's why it has a very high likelihood of of being like one of the sort of biggest ecosystems in in the industry and and that's why we also super come to to on board projects like list to it um and I think it's it's

it's a really good choice uh to to to select and of course there other Stacks that are maybe a bit more advanced when it comes to ZK proving and these kind of things right and so if that's super important for you as a project then you might want to consider talking to these guys as well right but um I believe my personal opinion is right now the time uh of the optimistic rollup uh is there I think it's the time for it to shine and then let's see what we can add later later on as for more sort of uh faster bridging or more trustless interchange communication and so on um but yeah I think that's why like P right now of course is absolute no-brainer for for projects and then Max curious to hear kind of the vision for for for for Lisk

now and kind of why you opted into um using going towards a optimistic rooll up within the super chain mhm so for eight years we built our own one that means we built up this experience surrounding our own code base and now we are going into a new ecosystem ethereum is for the organization behind list new for many individuals not not their digion and use it every day but as an organization ethereum is something new to us and that means we have to take some time to adapt to what's new and as a project therefore strategically we have no chance in

building something Cutting Edge in 2024 because we have no experience in ethereum we need to switch that organization first and move it into the ethereum ecosystem to build up that experience in order to build something really really great so as a strategic position the first step for us now is to reuse existing tools like the OPC and here the choice fell on the OPC once because of course it's very simple and elegant designed SDK for layer twos but also we just vied with a team I mean it's an amazing team and being part of something is really more powerful in my opinion than not being part of something and the super chain brings all the

Strategic leverage you want as a layer to building in the space I mean you being part of the super chain you can tap into the retroactive public good funding you have a huge let's say community behind it which is supporting you and you can basically just be part of a bigger family but for us it was just important to be able to Pivot into this new indust into this new ecosystem um ethereum and optimism has to offer for us then to build up that new kind of experience so that then later afterwards we can do something even bigger and there Simplicity was just key and I think it's a very good step for us to dive into ethereum and to build up that

into experience but I also think that Tech matters less and less I mean the OB stack will of course also move at one point towards zero knowledge but I think we are slowly but surely arriving at a point where technology doesn't matter too much anymore because it's good enough for most people to just use it fees are trending to zero and uh it's more about I think Network effects and usability at this point and we just want to make it possible for developers to build consumer applications which actually are being used for something

real instead of just gambling in our own space essentially and optimism I think was the best partner for that nice and Jack we'll pass it to you as as well why build super skin in this in the super chain rather than going to build you know a block Explorer for um I'm not sure like Salon or a block Explorer for um different l1s or you know maybe that's on your road mapap as well but why the focus on super chain and um what's been your experience so uh right now no there's no road map for uh other VMS but yes some from Cosmos B some some have asked to have a block explore from us um but the

thing is we also service other you know evml ons but I think to the reason why we wanted to like invest because we we actually invested in in the super scan by making you know by launching it and with for free for everyone it was because we we saw the track record of retro pgf basically and we were hopeful that um we would get rewarded for for the time we took to index the blockchains and time we took to actually you know engage with the community and we got we got pretty much we got 60 65,000 op uh so that that that was like

half of what block Scout took and we are not open source so that was a really really a blast for us and that's why why we we we announced uh a couple of weeks ago that we will that we would know by by default offer the block Explorer for free to to uh all op chains while we um while we understand what's the uh best business model because you know um I think I think the the the the network effects of the retr pgf are heavily undervalued like the the fact that you can that that with the Retro pgf the optimism Collective is trying to like

make equal the uh the equation uh impact and profit like input needs to be equal to profit so if you make if make a lot of impact and you don't monetize it enough you should be rewarded for the extra um that is something that is not in other um chains actually I saw that a retr pgf has been done by Solana recently May did the first one so they that have been like copies but the best the main thing yes we we're not building an arbitrum ecosystem Explorer right now because of this because if we would know like you know we're not like we need to be agnostic in this sense you know uh we I I personally

love the super the optimism ecosystem but if arbit were to like have a similar opportunity we would of course jump ship over there as well U because that's that's how our business is done you know we we that's that's how yeah that's block export needs to be paid by someone you know um but you know we have been also yes I was gonna say that the that the Retro is just insane and like James James was saying that um and I'm super interested about this more because this is going to apply to to Max and and Lisk as well and something that Hilmar should know when when uh you know probably does already of course is that you have to share some of your sequencer fees with

the collective which then ends up going back to Retro pgf as well assumably so because that's where they come from James what's that what does that kind of look like for you guys because you guys have have an interesting sequencer sharing model already for users and developers also some like affiliate marketing in in there so yeah yeah so it's it's a small percentage it's like 15% of sequence of Fe profits um that goes back to you commit to optimism Collective um and it's cool and uh yeah I think if you know it's important that people know that that's like the revenue model for L2 um right now is uh the

sequencer um and especially l2s that have ethereum we as the uh Native token and uh yeah it makes sense like uh we're we're more than happy to do that it's like a great a great partnership and you know the goal is um that there's loads of chains or working on different things or having different communities or contributing B to Collective Collective gets stronger so it's very much a win-win for everyone um and yeah like you know any project that deploys on mode um can participate in r with public goods funding which is like a phenomenal program and yeah I'm not sure how much

was committed uh previously but 100 million I think roughly um yeah 30 million 30 million op so yeah like roughly 100 million that's like I mean that's crazy like one of the largest like uh funding programs like ever um in crypto like that's ongoing so um yeah it's super cool uh super cool and it's a great way to like bring builders in um but yeah alongside that there definitely needs to be a range of different funding models um so yeah we're keen to keep keep working on that nice what um so when you talk to projects that want to come onto mode is

it more of like a oh you can come and build on mode and you'll you'll likely qualify for retro or like hey mode will mode has has grants or mode will qualify and then we'll kind of end up Distributing um as well and then second question on top of that is when the mode token goes live have you thought about kind of like um incentives for uh projects that are building there is that something that that you guys have discussed obviously that's under wraps but something that you know you you're also looking to bootstrap for Quality de and projects yeah like we we're trying to quantify this as much as possible um on the uh user side and also on the developer side so um you know the way

optimism looks at impact is via badge holders and Via like a governance process right so retroactive public goods funding is based on a big part of the community a group in the community um voting on proposals right like our goal is to um take a different approach where developers can deploy applications on chain um and rewards will be streamed to them um and incentives will be streamed uh based on a Model that uh looks to grow the ecosystem so when you look at a defi ecosystem you have different protocols you have um dexes you have uh lending protocols you have

perpetuals protocols they all have different uh different kind of core metrics you need to look at and they all contribute to an ecosystem's growth in different ways um like for a lending protocol to function efficiently there needs to be sufficient liquidity on a DEX um equally like for perpetuals protols to uh function effectively there needs to be like liquidation engines all these different kind of things working together so our goal right now is very much to try and build up our native ecosystem model that so we can understand like okay if we incentivize more Dex liquidity what will be the impact on the overall growth in the ecosystem or what would happen if um a large lending protocol deployed to

mode and a 100 million was deposited like what would that look like what would we need to support that so yeah our goal is like how can we model that and how can we end up streaming incentives and rewards to the top applications um to kind of continue that growth but yeah that's a big problem so we're just at the beginning of trying to solve that and then from the user perspective one last one here for you James obviously there's this points meta going on right now users are are like no more points give us give us uh tokens blah blah blah people are kind of getting fed up but also at the same time um you know it's really interesting incentive mechanism when you can kind of like segment different periods of time

and that also kind of allows you to like have a slow almost as like reaking project launched with caps points kind of give you a time to like incentivize growth and then pause and then you know so it kind of gives you a nice growth um trajectory so curious what's next for mode in the coming uh weeks to months um with your launch and anything that that you can share yeah essentially our goal is to have more exciting applications launching so people can earn points which will eventually become tokens um but they can also earn yield and they will also like use applications right um that are interesting are fun uh also useful to them and so this isn't just

you know put your Capital into a bridge and leave it there for three months um pull it out and get an airdrop it's very much like interact with applications in the ecosystem um and depending on like your contribution to ecosystem growth you'll be rewarded um we yeah the point system like got smashed pretty hard at launch like we had like uh I think a 100,000 addresses in the first week um so a lot of stuff uh basically like the calculations we were running became like insane um so we had to like slow down how we're doing calculations um but that's like going to yeah we have like a sing an update today

on that so it should be come more clear to people like how that works um and yeah we have some new protocols launching as well or they've launched today um and have been added to like this ecosystem points um dashboard so yeah uh yeah it's it's hopefully going to be a lot more fun um and make a lot more sense for people on how they're how they're earning very cool hilmore I got a I got a question about the gelato uh roll up as a service uh like offer or or package like we we've spoken a lot about the optimism Collective and about why the op stack makes for a great SDK

and I'm curious like what is the the addition like that that gelato provides on top of the op stack that that makes it easier for developers to launch their own rollup like you got the op stack and then you got your lotto what does someone get in lot of that they don't get with the Baseline op stack yeah sure um I think sort of the angle that we came from as gelato is that we have been really focused in the past four years building like the stack of web free middleware services that I always see as these kind of like modules that augment the underlying evm blockchain um for example you can do event based or so recurring transaction execution you can do gases transactions

you can enrich your smart contract with offg data all these things that like regular evm chains don't support right and there are like two ways how you can actually enhance the functionalities of a blockchain right one is um you build these sort of modules on top um which is great because it's modular right so you don't need to actually change the base evm um functionality you can just take the existing evm and you plug in these modules and it works um and then you sort of bake it all in but the problem with baking it all in is that then you kind of like have to do custom stuff again you break composability you break interoperability and um and yeah it just makes it much harder to keep up to track with let's say the op STC developments um and so um yeah this is this is kind

of like what then when the rise the rise of like l2s came with Bas Etc we really quickly realized that and the the L2 the blockchain itself is just one piece of the puzzle right it's like the Bas layers it's the core primitive but you need uh in order to then fulfill your kpis which usually are that you have a ton of projects uh meaning that you need to track the a ton of um developers that have a ton of technical dependencies right in order to achieve that you actually need like a sort of endtoend web three infrastructure package with your um with your chain right and I'm talking about you need the blockchain but then you also need um oracles indexers uh automation Keepers bundlers relays um

multix um you name it right so we basically mapped out this sort of entire package that we know develop need from like working together with them for aot for a lot of a lot of years and we um know that we already service like I don't know like a third of these Services ourselves quite well Bridges like reped asset Bridges is one of them right um and what we then did is we went to like our partners infrastructure Parts like the graph or so on and we got them and say like hey uh we can just like get everything everything in one package we can run rpcs for everyone that everyone can like easily deploy without running a ton of cost themselves right and so basically design is how can we get the cost of like a full endtoend chain deployment and maintenance project down to the lowest possible price point

by sharing as much as infrastruct as much infrastructure as possible across all these Services right and managing the deployments and uh sort of coordination process here and this is basically then how we came up with our like endtoend roll service platform that tries to do that and and the goal here is really to have chains live from day one that have everything ready for projects to just come p over the app from arum optimism mayet or ethereum one to one deployed there and bomb your your you're Off to the Races right and you don't have to do like 10 different contracts with 10 different suppliers and 10 different negotiations and everyone runs their own rpcs and so the cost just increase incredibly right so you can have like a good Baseline and then do one contract and sign it all and get it all deployed I think that's

that's what we really focus on very nice yeah and I think there's also like some offchain elements as well or some non-technical ones the gelato the gelato Community is quite big um good marketing presence tons of tons of Partners in the space as as well from like a BD perspective um and kind of General marketing and growth as well and I think those things those things kind of go unnoticed in a sense but when people are making decisions I think that those types of things come in you know come through people's minds yeah for sure I think like go to market as James said right we need more goto Market Innovation and I think sort of ma Max also echoed that I think that's extremely important I think as

Max said the the tech is of of course important right but we are beyond the stage of like specific Tech Innovations I think we are now at a stage where we really need to see how we can leverage Tech and bring it actually to people and distributed um and yeah I think this is where we then there this is where the power of like working together like amplifies right because like I don't know when we work together with optimism and Lisk on like the announcement right it wasn't wasn't just like one party chilling it we're like chilling it all of us to our different communities and then it sort of like amplifies and Twitter works like that right the more people amplify the more people then will actually also see it that are not part of our communities and so you just get a much wider reach and and this is how we

potentially also at some point break out of our bubbles and not only all talk to the same people but maybe even reach new people and I think that's yeah I think we already saw some some good success stories there and yeah happy to excited to see how we can collaborate more Al together also with mode uh to to yeah just get as many eyes as possible on the superch for sure well guys as we kind of come to a close going to give you a chance to each say um some uh exciting updates if you haven't said them already um and you know also what else you're most excited about that's going on in the super chain um I'll go first for uh for the rollup we have modular March coming up and we are very excited about uh the launch of Lisk in the super chain

I'll start with Jack um and go to Max and then Hilmar and James wrap us up Jack what new Chains new launches and what are you excited about yes we um we have you of course new OP chains explorers to launch we also have some new ZK um rups explorers to launch and and yeah so many many new chains and the focus is just ethereum right now and evm uh but the thing is everyone is now doing a rollup so a lot of work fair enough yeah for me I mean there's so much to be excited about um

the foundation which is building Lisk is called the onchain foundation and we're just launching very soon our research arm there on on chain. org which is about blockchain Solutions or use cases and goes pretty deep into various use cases being explored but also which are already today on the market so I'm pretty excited about that and then of course Lisk um we have a huge job there in front of us but I think it's going to be very interesting year for us for Builders we're going to make it very seamless with all the Integrations and middleware we're working on for investors we make it very interesting with our staking with our airdrops um and further incentivization coming along

and um yeah I think it's going to be really really good and we're also going to build another product which is solving some of the problems we talked about today about fragmentation and interoperability and blockchain uh abstraction so that one is still in stealth mode but we're working really hard on that one and it will come later this year so all in all we at the onchain foundation are very busy but uh it's going to be an amazing year for us yeah I think echomax I'm also excited about the Lis launch um working together with them brainstorming around how to bring this to Market so extremely excited about this um also just like um 44 four dropping finally right uh then

coming along I think that will just like um make it all much more accessible to actual users I think like right now rollups are just like too expensive I think this is a huge blocker I think this will definitely help a lot with all the upcoming new launches so I'm super happy that it finally ships um um as for us internally I think we're working on a ton of really cool sort of enhancements to what you can offer on on your own L2 one thing what we will hopefully launch at some point um is going more into like the uh the sort of Oracle area where we will make it just much more easy for protocols or l2s to to deploy and configure um yeah price feeds on on

their on their chains um using our existing sort of middleware service like 3 functions in conjunction with other or providers on a very sort of seamless UI that is makes it super accessible super easy to do and just like again removes one barria for adoption in like dii um and yeah the goal is really to make all these infrastructure tools as accessible as possible that you have everything you need to really build up an excess North Builder so yeah that's that's one of the things among many of course um yeah cool um I'm excited because I feel like the last like I feel like 2023 was just really like a grind like it was hard like everyone working in the

space was just like it was a grind and like um I feel now we've seen like a significant amount of uh Innovation like from that people have been building over the last year like start to come to Market and that's just awesome um I'm also super excited about Procol upgrades I'm super excited about hopefully integrating gelato with middleware um I just pinged in our telegram group um I'm uh excited about we we're doing some stuff with conduit who's our info provider so we've got some upgrade stuff coming there um we want to keep like bring on more def ecosystem projects so there's going to be some cool uh cool

things launching on that side and yeah just generally like I think the ethereum ecosystem it's like 2024 is like a a huge year now um there's definitely more competition from other ecosystems but yeah for like everyone building an ethereum space like it looks like this is going to be super cool um there's G to be loads of amazing opportunities for everyone so excited to push that forward yeah man I think a lot of the stuff that Hillmar is saying about modularity and choice and optionality is super bullish for ethereum EIP 4844 comes in makes all these rollups much cheaper even using alternative da and alternative VMS at the end of the day I think 99% of rollups will still settle to ethereum at least the ones that are

settling a significant amount of value so whether they're using ethereum for data availability evm or not I still think that ethereum's just kind of underpin this entire thing let alone the optimism super change so um Rob what a what a panel yeah I'm bullish um so bullish so bu you all for coming on thank you for having us time to make life life changing money this year and life changing new technologies and Innovations I think it's going to be a big year for all of us how could we don't get one of these I'm trying to do the hearts too I don't

know Hilmar you got something oh Max Jack I got it I got it oh God