Onchain Economies: Empowering Today’s Content Creators | Analyst Round Table

Transcript

it's really hard to compete in the L1 Market it's extraordinarily crowded there's not a clear wedge in the market um other than these current ecosystems compounding their current markets there's also like this problem in crypto where Founders get very religious um you can think of things like eth alignment um as like one of these like religious beliefs where people will ignore like the writing on the wall and just like stay like stronge headed in One Direction nothing said on zerox Research is a recommendation to buy or sell Securities or tokens this podcast is for informational purposes only and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions not Financial

advice bacho Ryan and our guests May hold positions in the company's funds or projects discussed what's up guys welcome back to another episode of zerox research where I'm joined by Danny and Ryan from blockworks research to talk about all that is happening in the markets or rather all that is not happening in the markets um before we get started Danny do you want to give a little overview of what you think is interesting yeah um I think the markets right now it's it's a it's an interesting spot like I'm not a macro guy but you know I sort of follow the macro scene and experts in that area and I think we've got kind of some maybe Rocky times still ahead of

us potentially um but I you know it I think if you look forward and you look at the potential like positive things on the horizon with potential election maybe changes in in regulatory stance or um kind of just going into the end of the year and into next year you know we we've been messing around here at at these levels and like Bitcoin has kind of been grabbing and maybe going slightly lower and we've seen alts like take hits um it does feel like at least personally for myself you know if I had extra cash like things that I like and I'm looking at like I would I would maybe want to be picking some of those off the floor I don't

maybe now is near that time to do so or maybe it comes in another month I'm not really sure but um I think you know alts have been hit you know fairly hard from the highs earlier this year um so this is just one of those interesting times when there's a lull um things are down and you know for stuff that is compelling it's you know we could go lower and we could go higher and that's kind of always the case but it's you know compared to the valuations that we saw earlier in this year they they are significantly lower today um and so it's like a much more there's there's a little bit more of an attractive opportunity here um for

certain alts and things in other tokens um that maybe you wouldn't have wanted to buy like in March at you know Peak valuations and in numbers yeah it'd be insane if anybody here bought anything in March man that would their portfolio crazy right um yeah I generally agree with you I'm not going to Mack RAR but does things do feel more attractive than they were in March is are much lower and they continue to go lower and lower it's unexpectedly um Ryan what do you think you grew out this incredible stubble over the past few weeks obviously um has it come with extra wisdom what are we looking at I mean the

product cycle has certainly slowed uh I think that's the most interesting change in the backdrop um seeing fewer and fewer projects come to Market um perhaps the devs are tapped out there's some bright spots potential potentially in like game f social fly um that we're hearing about deal flow on the on the VC side of things but that's going to take some time um I mean look this wasn't um this wasn't completely unforeseeable we spoke about uh you know two or three months back about how um J uh July and August are terrible months for volumes and in a

market that needs like constant attention and New Capital to like maintain current valuations uh given that summer lull it's not a surprise especially like you know given the the large um participation from some governments and institutions M the mount gox redistributions Etc um I mean look it's all it's all the regulatory story right now right if you're trading this um if you have a sub1 12mon time Horizon it's very much a regulatory story I think that the correlation between Trump's odds of winning the election and um Bitcoin have been oscillating but have been more

positive that than not so I mean I think from a trading perspective like that's all that matters going into the end of the year fair enough one thing you brought up there is the product cycle and specifically that we're still seeing interest in Social fi I um I was thinking about that quite a bit yesterday and and today um obviously friendtech renounced contract ownership today which uh means that I think they're done developing the contracts it's kind of a crazy thing to do after making 50 mil on fees um and raising God knows how much from Paradigm and then saying hey guys you know what we gave it our best eight

months out we're done um but I was thinking about it and how would you guys have done frch um such that it did not die out obviously there's some interest in this product of um both speculating on people's prices um based on their Cloud as well as paying for um access to chat to them um I as far as I understand there's a traditional alternative to that chatting thing um where you can pay for time with Founders uh correct me if I'm wrong um and I think that's speculation of

people's prices um we have we're seeing it a bit with fantasy top but yeah how would you guys have done it is this something you think about do you ever think about racer and his tweets or is it is it done what's the consensus I don't think about racer um I do think about the product and other products that could be interesting um I think there's something difficult here in that like I think there are elements to both parts like the the private chats um getting access to that um the speculation on like the price of the keys is interesting as well um I don't know if the specific Curve

Model like pricing model that was applied here and having only that made the most sense like they added some features later um that probably too late but um you know maybe the opportunity to have flat pricing models for just pure access without the speculation as well as the speculative options like I think probably just having a bit more optionality would have helped early on the other problems that they had early were just like the slowness and like bugginess of the application itself it was pretty god- awful to use early on um I think fixes kind of came slowly but um when the traditional like opport like

options exist to like do this type of thing it's it's hard to want to use like a bad product experience so certainly figuring those things out especially like when you're getting the investment like they had the money um to fix that stuff um but I think playing around a little bit more like I just don't I don't think that the iteration was fast enough like I think when you have some like initial success like that really quickly like the goal should be then to like very quickly take feedback or just come out with like new additional features that maybe people are clamoring for especially like on the Creator side if the creators are seeing things that like they think is helpful or the users themselves like you know how how they find more value in in actually using the app um and we just we just didn't see

that happen and I think that's where the key failure was um but I think they had like all of the some of the elements were there in terms of like getting people interested it and it would just there wasn't enough like additional change to like keep things exciting and keep dropping features that maybe would make the thing more successful in the longer term because you can't like the pricing model like would not make sense like let's say you get Iggy iselia or Kanye West to like drop on this app somehow like if they've got a million people like the prices of their keys are gonna instantly shoot to yeah insane numbers if they don't have some way to like you know if you could have a flat rate key for you know 50 bucks that

anyone can buy and it's like a some specific type of access like you see with other platforms like like a patreon or um you know other Creator fan type relationship platforms like there are ways to to kind of capitalize on that relationship without having it be purely speculative but I think you know probably some interplay of those two ideas and maybe you know dropping the different ideas on designing the like Bonnie curve itself or like that that pricing curve um I think that came a little too late as well I mean with 44 mil they definitely could have hired a bunch of really good devs and then have figured it out Ryan what do you think yeah I think there are some important lessons um that the industry is actually like picked up and is taking

to new projects um I think the first and most obvious one um it's actually like a very common uh Playbook and software technology social media markets is um vampire attacking and existing social network so if you look at like all the great social networks they're very much a vampire attack on an existing social network so if you think of what Facebook did it vampire attacked college campuses and the existing social networks there LinkedIn is company social networks industry social networks um um there are countless examples but I think that that's one thing that frch did that um I think web 3 Founders are

focusing on crypto Founders are focusing on on a go forward basis is like let's tap into these open apis let's provide like a very seamless bridge to like this community and like bring the whole thing over instead of trying to build it from scratch which is much harder um the other thing is asset issuance and you've seen this in you know subsequently with pump fund or fantasy top is that if you give people a place to issue interesting assets um it's pretty attractive from a speculation uh perspective and this industry is quite good at monetizing and creating these like little speculative environments and if you can get it right like with pump. fun um or with fch like it can go really far it could be it

generate a lot of a lot of Revenue so asset issuance as like being a core social primitive on a go forward basis I think is something I think it's really important if you're looking for Founders building in the space like that's that's a tried and true I think product feature um I think yeah I think it's pretty obvious that the pricing curve was bad um they should have had a more diverse set of pricing models to choose from as a Creator I don't think it would have been smart to allow them to choose the pricing model themselves like just there you know it's kind of um there's too much granularity there but if you had a set of like five different pricing models or something like that could have been really useful and then um I think you're seeing

this play out in early uh early stage markets today like the Texton based interaction model is a really hard one to monetize so like Twitter for example um the story of Twitter is that investors for a decade have been like how are you guys going to make money and like it's still happening today obviously it's not a perfect story with you know just what's happening with ad revenue on Twitter post Elon but it's way harder to monetize a Texton um social network versus something a little bit more Dynamic which is why you're seeing like pump fun getting to live streaming and unlonely you know solely focused on um on live streaming and video um they're

just more um immersive forms of media and I think it's quite clear that in like the history of social media networks like the more immersive the media the stickier it is so so yeah I think that there are like really good less I think frch was um it was obviously a success for the people who participate in it or who built it um and I think it was like a really good lesson um for this space and you know we're going to pick up those valuable pieces and make something really interesting going forward okay I have a few few things I want to ask both you guys first of all what do we think of crypto's Promise um to empower the Creator the content creator um I like the reason I'm asking

this is because I saw um Ryan's favorite at Jason post about only fans is 2023 Financial figures and based on this only fans lets creators keep um 80% of the revenue that they generate and they take about 20% um something along those lines I think um which is not bad at all in fact I would say that's pretty good and like compared to what was frch I think it was 15% so there's really only like a 5% difference over there like frex fees were 15% um so a I'm not sh like what's the I guess two

questions is what's the bull case for um crypto as a tool to vampire attack um content creation platforms um given that they're already giving a decent amount to content creators and B is yeah that's really it I think it's just a like do we even need it at that point if only fans is giving 80% back and not do because I I would have assumed they would do like 5050 um 80% is quite a good amount what do we think yeah 80% 80% is a very nice margin um it's hard to compete on that the your margin is my opportunity story

like it's it's way less there than I thought is it actually 80% is that a fact well it's based on I mean I assume Jason wouldn't lie he's a very nice guy yeah calanis yeah yeah so he says users spend 6.6 billion um USD 5.3 billion of that goes to creators so that's 80% yeah I mean yeah the the story really loses it's um the your margin is my opportunity story really loses its power in that scenario I think that for empowering creators like I think it's too broad of a bucket um I think that you have to if you're

making one of these Creator monetization platforms um you have to focus on creators who are under monetized it's not clear to me that many creators are under monetized um I mean what better Creator to focus on than like the only fans person then like like yeah there really isn't a better one right like they probably have tough banking relationships they would benefit from more PTP stuff um yeah the only like the bull case for crypto here is that I have

heard um just like people say that one of the issues that people might have is that only fans that like takes away creators earnings um so I guess that's the bull case of crypto is that once it's paid out you can't take it back you can't like claw back um and obviously like as decentralized and like as like trustless as something is it's good um but I don't think the opportunity here is like oh creators aren't being paid enough like 80% is good 80% is a lot more than I expected and I don't think that anybody's going to like meaningfully be able to beat that unless they're like running on loss

running out a loss yeah I think um there's an open question here as to whether right obviously costs of like building out any sort of business to compete with that are gonna you know you're GNA need devs you're going to need marketing team etc etc so that's going to be tough but I guess there's sort of an open question on whether using like crypto rails um having like creators have self- custody of their payments like automatically not needing to manage that for them like there may be some ways in which you could design an app similar to this where you sort of save money on the operating costs by kind of via the use

of the tech and and having that that kind of earnings flow um work as intended like on chain without having to like you know take the earnings and then dib them out to creators Etc however it's done today right um and manage those Bank relationships um so that's certainly an opportunity I do think as well like I wanted to comment on the that 8020 relationship I know for like live streaming platforms I guess what I was to say is I'm not I'm not super surprised that it's higher um than maybe like other platforms because I think if you look at like a twitch for example like the live streaming giant

they I think many contracts after after a certain amount they Chang this program all the time but I believe after a certain amount of of subscriptions a a lot of contracts or maybe historically are like 7030 um although I think like Prime Subs are maybe 5050 so um and I would expect obviously like their operating costs like running the live streaming service hosting all those those videos and things like that's got to be way higher so um it sort of makes sense to me maybe that like a kind of private content that's kind of created and provided by the Creator itself like they should get a bigger cut of that versus like a maybe a twitch or YouTube who's hosting all of these like massive servers and storing tons and tons and tons of video data um

so like directionally I can see it I think you know if there's an opportunity for kind of some some decentralized service to e out that margin I mean you make a good point right it's like can you get them another 5% maybe is that can to be enough using it not sure are the questions around like losing access to their funding because of banks um enough to maybe some traders to consider going centralized route using apps maybe so hey guys permissionless the event four crypto natives is heading west to Salt Lake City and we're bringing the biggest names in crypto together for an incredible campas event join me and the rest of block works on

October 9th to hear for more than 200 Industry Titans including Nick white from Celestia shiram from Igan and Keon from Mona the conversations at permission list will be covering the hottest themes in crypto including modularity reaking the Bitcoin and Solon ecosystems Ai and crypto rollups l2s institutional adoption and of course the November election that will be right around the corner we couldn't be more excited about this event and it's happening in one of the most beautiful places in the US ticket prices will be increasing towards the end of June so get your ticket today make sure to use their codes so I get some credit and bragging rights from the rest of the team uh use ZX10 for 10% off on your ticket one more thing we're also hosting

the permissionless recka font in collaboration with blebox the theme this year is a multi-chain future to build a better cross chain experience so I don't have to have a heart attack every time I bridge to a new Channel all hacka found participants will receive a free ticket to attend permissions so if you're a developer come join us in Salt Lake City team up with fellow devs and build the multi-chain future over the weekend I saw um Ryan Bergman tweet about how he wanted only fans on chain and there is one that exists it's on Solana called only one um and then he was like oh no that one doesn't work I need it to be on uh l2s because the onchain economy is stronger and I've been thinking about what that means the onchain

economy like being stronger on l2s and I don't really get it like what at what point could be stronger such that like Solon has more Dex volume um compared to other l2s compared to l2s um there's just more money velocity on that chain as well like you can already feel it there's more happening on the Chain so I don't is the argument that like gambling and um content creation doesn't go well together because Vegas shows that that's not the case so I don't I don't really what do you guys think I think it's a good point um that you make no no it's

non it's nonsense I think that's was just like I don't know that's just like eth certified talking points um I think that the more relevant question for payments is like where should payments be um and we're going to kind of venture outside of the Creator thing here but like where should payments be at crypto scale is like it's going to be really good for trading there's going to be people taking risk there's going to be people paying priority fees to get into blocks um crypto is you know necessarily constrained it's a constrained environment um it's not you know AWS where you can just pump through

transactions like there's only so much space per block so like where should payments be should they be where high frequency trading is or should they be in a different environment I think that there's like it's all probabilistic but I think there is a case to be made that like if you want a P2P payments app like it might be best on an L2 or it might be best in like a similar structure to the way a Visa does it today where these where low value um where low value transactions are not competing with high value transactions um is that no L2 what was that like that's the point noos L2 right

NOS L2 it's there's nothing else on that with payments yeah yeah payments and then they have that new nosis pay card I'm sorry I cut you off but oh yeah it's I mean look you have if you think about how people trade on NASDAQ it's um I think it's like a it's um people they're like a billion hits per second on NASDAQ um that's like opening orders can cancelling orders filling orders and then there is um you know the comp of Visa payments transactions per second where it's like 11,000 or something like that I've heard 50,000 who knows um like why should they all be in the

same place um if I'm a validator and I'm a leader and I get to decide who goes in a block like I'm definitely going to favor all the really high value things uh if you think of like like skoric things aren't always bad they're pretty useful for onboarding people to new technologies so when you think of like your banking your checking account versus your investment account like that's a pretty useful separation um I don't know I wouldn't be surprised that in some future State you see like checking account like products that are clearing payments on an L2 um and you you see like an investment type account where it's like only hitting like the salana L1 that would make sense to me I think that's the ideal scenario for l2s I agree with you it's just like just having completely

empty space that you can do whatever low value thing the only issue is that you want like obviously we'll figure it out as time goes on and we'll figure out what the good like um compromise between trustless and uh making something very performant but I feel like that would be the only issue like I wouldn't want to keep my money on something that is potentially like stoppable and that I can't escape from um but I'm sure we'll figure it out there's no need to think too much about that yeah I do think I mean it's it's not maybe directly relevant to the point but I do think like kind of pontificating about what

that looks like in the future I don't know that that really matters for like the app developers today um you can you can build only fans on chain on any decently fast and cheap chain today and if the product is successful then cool and if there's a problem down the line where you shouldn't should be on an L2 or not or on this place that place like then you can move it like we've SE apps have like dydx has gone from being on chain to do it to its own chain like there's apps today that are exploring with like all these possibilities or moving from one to the other for them I don't think it matters just make like an interesting product um yeah and get it to Market and get people using it and I like this talk from Ryan about like where it should be like it it doesn't

matter that much like maybe from a cost pers perspective sure like you should obviously be concerned about that today like if it's going to cost you a million dollars a month to post to a certain location maybe don't post there post somewhere else um or if it's going to make you know the user experience awful then you know look for a different spot but otherwise I think it's you find the right spot for it today and then if you need to move it later then you move it I just thought it was so funny that like this guy basically told the people who built what he was asking for like hey man why did you do it over there and it's like I bet sure I'm sure they had those considerations in mind right like they wanted it to be cheap and fast so that like a lot of

people could use it and that's that's literally it they were like oh yeah like we just wanted someplace cheap and fast but you didn't consider the onchain economy man shut the hell up well it they used to I mean the the eth like the Hardline eth perspective was like oh we have all the tvl um it hasn't been true in the case of arbitrum right like if you're sitting on arbitrum you have less tvl there than salana so they even have that argument anymore um and it's like kind of a bridge is a bridge is a bridge you can Bridge from eth to arbitrum I can Bridge from eth to salana like who cares if your app is good enough then like like you're saying people will be willing to move their funds

over it it works in the Trad markets too like if I want to use Robin Hood I got to deposit if I want to use Fidelity or XYZ place like I got to move my money there I don't want to on theerum Too Much I Feel Like We Do every week um but yeah I agree with you I mean my like biggest thing is I feel like we're wasting the capital on ethereum like there's $45 billion on that chain and if you're not using that chain that that money is just being wasted like that's the most money that we have on chain and if you're an app developer you should want to access that and like you said if if you build up arbitrum versus if

you build on salana you're still accessing the same like there's only 10,000 people on chain and everybody knows how to use Bungie and across and dbridge um you don't need to whatever no more no more ethereum talk um I think we're going to keep it short today the second thing that I want to talk about is SOI and Aptos um so's just been doing fantastically like off the bottom I I don't want to pull up charts on ZX research that's not really what we want to do but I do want to give Danny the opportunity to talk a bit about which one did you shill sui or

Aptos which one do you like better which one do you think can give you the next 100x you write me out the script and I'll I'll load it up for you um yeah I mean I think there's some I think there's some key points like of interest um we've seen regardless of the price action I'm kind of ignoring that as for part of the intro to this discussion but I think we sawu I think as like an onchain ecosystem um onchain economy perform I think fairly well earlier on like maybe months back um relative to Aptos but I think recently over the past few months like that has come closer to equalizing like they're doing um as far as last look

relatively similar like Dex volumes um looking at fairly similar tvls like within at the same ballpark at the very least I believe um so you know I think the question comes down to there's some similar Tech at play not that they're like the exact same thing per se but um you're dealing with you know the that the move language across both you're looking at fairly similar onchain economies today um we've seen like the market sort of chatter about you know Aptos conferences being empty but s you know events being you know full houses I don't know if that's still

the same with the recent Aptos Soul um Korea event maybe that place was a packed house um and and maybe that changes that that thought going around but um I do think one thing that is very difficult is there's there's a ton of similarities between the two um and at this point in the game like a lot of the apps are going to be the same you know copypaste things that exist in all defi ecosystems today right you're going to have your lending markets you're going to have your dexes you're going to have your lsts you know you name it um and there's not going to be anything super duper unique at the moment um outside of maybe what people are thinking about building into the

future um you I thinku has at least an interesting idea of going after this gaming vertical with the Play device um kind of similar to you know what salana explored with the Saga and now the Saga 2 um going after like a unique market and um trying to kind of capture users in that way and kind of tie them into the ecosystem but um It's relatively early and like the metrics I I think wouldn't really swing you super hard one way or the other nor would the tech yeah I um for like to play apas advocate um they've been focused on um real world asset stuff I think

majority versus SOI like you said like sui took that I mean SOI like they did this fantastic incentive program probably the best case of an incentive program I've ever seen back in October 23 so it's been nearly a year now uh 180 mil in SOI I think I'm not sure if it's in dollars or if it's in literally like SOI tokens um on chain and it like obviously like you said both chains they don't have really have that much um for what it's worth I think apos has a bit of a more welldeveloped um ecosystem like there's a very clear um you know Solana had jeto um and like it also had a bunch of other stuff but

like jeto was the like the Solana app um especially like going in um to 2023 2024 I think abdos has a few contenders like that and the big one is like faila um obviously there's other stuff um Luke recently wrote a report that is out outlining all that as well but I think the SOI ecosystem has been relatively a bit like less um welldeveloped even though they have more TV on that chain so it's a bit surprising but like I said I think that's mostly the incentive program and they've done a really good job um but more so what I wanted to ask is there's

very clearly like the move language is semi attractive um Ryan would love to hear your thoughts on how languages um might become more important um but more so what I wanted to ask is how is the how do you view that new L1 coming in because we hear about this all the time is like there's another opportunity like Solana um will there be another opportunity like Solana and I'm curious as to if you guys think that Aptos and sui could present this or if any other L1 could present this and what it would require both of these teams and these blockchains are very well funded um the language in it self technically makes

sense it's like at Le as far as I understand it's relatively easy to write um it's not rust in its popularity or solidity and like its tooling but it is like uh purpose buil for smart contracts so I'm wondering that's I'm I guess I'm just wondering like should I go 100x long Su optos or no and if I do when should I do it you're not going to get another chance like salana because um the thing about salana was that it kind of came to Market before people like applied this like L1 base layer valuation premium to everything that came on the

market so you know the ability to buy one of these things at a 200 million doll fully diluted valuation is not going to happen [Music] um and I think that look on a forward-looking basis so okay so what does the next salana mean does it mean like you know I think that was more of a bait thing that I said I guess I just more so meant like do we have another big L1 trade where you can capture 20 30 40x or whatever you're looking for um yeah I mean it's pretty interesting like I look at what's

happened with pump. fun like no doubt we're going to play the the the rotation game and we're going to do different apps and different ecosystems until we get tired and lose all our money um the pump fund thing has lasted on salana for a long time in crypto time and it recently like kind of left to BNB and Tron and it's my understanding that it's kind of rolling over now and like I think the problem with these other ecosystems there's just there's not there's nothing else novel to do the only place where you have novel experiences is arguably eth salana arbitrum maybe Bas um I definitely put

base there yeah so it's like it's really hard to compete in the L1 Market it's extraordinarily crowded I think I might have said this on the Pod a week or two ago but like how do you compete nowadays like there's not a clear there's not a clear wedge in the market um other than these current ecosystems compounding their current markets um maybe one wedge exists so like I when I think of these wedges like historically they've been like e has had the liquidity um it's hard to compete impossible to compete with that um salana had the Speed when everyone else was slow and the low fees that was their wedge into the market um there's also like this problem in crypto where

Founders get very religious um you can think of things like eth alignment um as like one of these like religious beliefs where people will ignore like the writing on the wall and just like stay likeon strong-headed in One Direction like perhaps like that's Mega eth's wedge into the market like if arbitrum is just like we're not going to increase our block times because you know for whatever reason our current technology stack is you know God's chosen stack um perhaps like that's like a way that one of these l1s compete because like realistically like if you think of something like Mega eth coming to Market and let's say that was actually able to attract more liquidity because it's a juice system um it's like very like good

for Market to provide liquidity there um arbitrum would just juice their Tech stack too and compete but like are they going to do that like I don't think so because it's not in the ethos right so like potentially that's a wedge yeah potentially that's a wedge it's just like the bias of a lot of the market this like kind of like religious bias towards like like the their current Tech Stacks or like current road maps um but other than that like there's not a lot of wiggle room for new l1s to like come to Market um so like do I think that Su and aptose can achieve like billion dollar market caps like it's way harder today um to get there I

I think it's more likely that current ecosystems keep compounding with the ex with the exception of like the Str stronge headed ones that um are really committed to their MO road map at the expense of evidence we're also going to get I I agree with you mostly I and I what my thing is that I feel like we're also going to get more exciting um l1s later this year um be chain for whatever it's worth I feel like they're trying out some new stuff and they have a really strong Community um whatever that means pre-launch but like at the end of the day they they are like a bunch of people posting random stuff and they they did shut down the test that in the initial

cry because everybody was sibling it so they'll have some interest same with monad um whatever community means pre-launch we'll see what happens after launch but it is interesting and it's at least like equal L I do yeah I want to add to that I think um I like Ryan's point about the wedging and I do think that like if you look at like a moned or a mega eth versus something like an apos orui um we have sort of a different kind of Paradigm that we're looking at like osui I think you're you're you're looking and comparing to like how do they break out in comparison to salana um the the other like altel one fast

cheap chain and they've taken that like you know maybe another another one or two orders of magnitude further right cheaper and potentially faster um but we see salana like continuing to compete there right like they're they're trying to pump out fire dancer and get more TPS so it's like that's that's going to be a battle an ongoing battle that they're going to have to play at and it's going to be difficult with like a user of soul today it it's so cheap that I don't care like I I don't care to save Pennies on my transactions by going over and like using Aptos orui instead it it doesn't really matter to me for a moned and like a mega eth I think Ryan's point is pretty good like you know base I will say is you know they do have some pretty interesting targets Like Jesse poock himself has posted some

pretty crazy Targets in terms of like Mega gas per second for the chain and like significantly increasing throughput but like we're not seeing arbitrum come out with proposals to get to 10K TPS on the Chain today they're doing you know they've got all these other like orbit chains that you know I think that's sort of their their method of scaling is kind of the L2 model but instead it's l3s um so there I think there's a possibility that like a manad or a mega eth like if they come out with like these evm aligned like 10K TPS chains like they have the opportunity to kind of do the soul play and that you come in and be the fast cheap alternative but like within the sort of religious like evm aligned Community to where you might actually have the ability to move over more significant capital from you know

l2s and even the main chain today because people think it just like fits the religion a little bit more um and they have the opportunity to build out these unique apps that we have on soul today that that don't exist on on l2s yeah I agreed and I think that like attempt to go okay I feel like a lot of people don't like the evm and they're like oh solid is like old so we don't really need it but I don't think the attempt to fix that is to say oh like here's actually just like another language that is exclusively smart contract Focus that's like kind of has a very small community and not fantastic de Dev tooling um it makes a lot more sense to do whatever

arbitrum is doing where they're like they have stylists where they have like you can write in Rust C++ C whatever um Solana you can write in Russ relatively popular language um as opposed to going with like a very Niche um safer they they're as far as I understand it's much safer and much harder to hack but even then I'm not sure if it's if it's worth it yeah it's it's unclear today right if the language enables anything super novel in in defi right like whether or not we'll see really significantly more interesting apps via the use of the move language that the other languages can't can't do for some reason um that's kind

of up in the air so that might be a potential future you know Value Point for them but we you know we don't see that today so it's hard to say yeah I will say all of these massive you know l1s they've they've got plenty of money and like you're saying like if you can get people that write multiple different languages to come and build stuff on your chain like that's great uh ultimately you just want to have devs come and build like unique interesting product experiences on your chain because that's why users are going to come and Bridge their money over and like use stuff you know salana had all these teams come out of the bare market and build unique things that weren't happening on eth and you know that's kind of a piece of their success um ultimately for like an Aptos foru for a

manad for a mega eth like they need to you know put some of their Partnerships and and capital to work and like get devs to want to come and build in their ecosystems and build stuff that's unique for what it's wor I think Solana didn't have that many interesting apps and it still doesn't it just had like a massive repricing event just because it was beaten down um but it is still the second I guess most like um Innovative ecosystem with yeah I think in their case like the just the speed and throughput improvements were were sort of enough to kind of fill that Gap like you know they didn't have 50 brand new Incredible experiences but

with just a few and just having them be greater from a user user experience perspective like I think that was just sort of enough but it's not enough anymore right like you can't you know eptos and S aren't going to make it just off of that alone yeah I agree with that yeah I think that's it for today guys Danny do you have anything you want to add uh don't get chopped up NFA d as always don't take any advice about 100x long or short ad um trade with leverage keep stop wide um don't Focus multiples are irrelevant double

down down it's all going up so don't worry loses is for losers we have guaranteed fouryear cycle don't it up NFA just look at the chart for 23 and then mirror that onto 24 and there you go y exactly um let's put the one second chart over here for whatever our producer is um trading at the day um guys thank you so much for coming on to my listeners to our listeners to the xerx research listeners you make it possible make sure to come to permission list it is in October um early October when the leaves

are turning and um you can use code 0x10 to get 10% off Ryan will be there Danny will be there I might potentially make an attempt if Ryan says can you please come B um unless he does that I will probably not come fantastic all right we're good I won't be there but another Dan or Daniel will probably be there we got plent of Dan we'll have one Dan [Music]