Not Missing a Beat, Developing Products in Crypto

Transcript

well welcome everyone uh thank you for joining us today for this panel on not missing a beat developing products in crypto uh I'll use this opportunity to remind everyone also to not miss the boat and to join us this evening for the boat party uh sponsored by you hler um I think sometimes when you talk about building in crypto people use the analogy of you building um like it's like building the plane whilst you're flying it but I think it's almost even worse than that it's kind of like building the rocket whilst it's being launched into space with one of the engines on fire um but today we are joined by uh some great speakers who are building across the industry uh and so

what we'll kick off with is have them talk about who they are what firm they're representing and then also what is the one thing that they are working on whether it be a product a product feature um that they are most excited about so Ilia should we kick kick it off with you yeah sure so hello hello again guys so my name is leov I'm CEO of U hodler fintech company with which is combining both scrypto in Fiat and I'm also on the board of Crypt Val Association so yeah sh shall we start with just quick round of introduction and then we'll you can do that that's fine yeah of course go go ahead so pass it on we'll pass on to Anna you want to do in which case hi hello my name is Anna Lov to meet you um glad that everybody's here and listening to us um

so I represent a company called tangent we are a crypto cold wallet company we are self- custody and we are as Slim as a bank card and as secure as a bank vault so I'm the marketing person obviously uh so I take care of marketing Communications at tangum and it is my pleasure to welcome a lot of decentralized options uh in terms of uh for self- custody for people to really onboard themselves into crypto for the first time really uh we are a Simplicity forward company that's something that we strive towards and I think for a lot of people it's a choice between security and simplicity and for us we've managed to put those two together in terms of for me I come from a D5 background so I've been in the industry since 2018 um seen a lot of Cycles a lot of products

go up and down and um yeah glad to be here yeah my name is Max um I'm from Ripple I used to be historically at metaco uh which was acquired by Ripple a year ago so this became Ripple custody so I mostly work with big bangs um so I know we're probably going to talk about it today a little bit but it's uh I'm mostly excited about what these big banks are doing I never thought I'm going to say this on stage to be honest because I'm in Bitcoin um for I don't know like years now and I always thought that yeah that the banks are going to diminish in their role in playing that but they definitely uh are not going to have a a lesser role to play in the future as I experienced over the last two and a half years cool uh so KAS for

Lux nice to meet you all um I actually started in digital assets back in 2018 uh and my first career in digital assets was actually in a bank uh so I started at UBS where I did a lot of work uh on tokenization um and I saw how difficult it was to innovate from within the bank uh and I wanted to hop onto a speedboat uh and that turned out to be Crypt Finance so I joined crypto Finance roughly two years ago um as the head of product um and still there um we are actually a crypto native company funded in Zurich uh but we're now part of uh Europe's largest fin cial Market infrastructure provider deutche berser which makes quite an interesting

combination because we actually brought crypto into deutche berser but we still have that very crypto native mindset uh we work with a lot of protocols still and we develop on top of the protocols so yeah it's quite a unique combination and uh so far I really enjoy it and and Casper crypto Finance are working on a lot at the moment and you're leading a charge the charge with a lot of that what is the one thing the the product product feature or development that work the you're involved in at the moment that you're most excited about for for this year yeah so um at Crypt Finance we're one of the I think we're maybe even the only one or one of the very few uh regulated providers who uh have built our own uh custody infrastructure uh which we still maintain uh inhouse and

so we integrate directly onto the protocols um and and kind of our key selling point is that we we really put security at the center of everything we do uh and last year we spent a lot of time extending that security also towards our staking offering and finma came out with the latest staking rules and we wanted to make sure that our offering was uh compliant with the latest finma requirements and we spent quite a lot of time uh doing that making sure that we can also have the same level of integrity and security for staking um and now we're kind of working to also bring that into the the German Market um Mika uh is is here but staking is not regulated under MAA so we're trying to

extend the uh the the practices we got from Switzerland also into the European market uh that's something I'm very excited about uh and staking is really picking up also uh we're still working with a lot of Foundations like we've been working with the card foundation for quite some time uh but we're seeing some new ecosystems emerge as well like there's a lot going on on Solana uh we already offered like custody and staking for Solana but we're also looking to add more uh features on Solana so that's something we probably will announce somewhere after the summer great and we are very much uh looking forward to continuing to work with you on the the staking P for sure definitely Max what about you what what is the most exciting thing that uh Ripple slmo are are working on at the moment what what what

thing um is uh on the road map for for this year that that you're excited about um so it's it's multi-dimensional I would say um speaking about my area uh working out with the banks um with the big Banks so among them is D bank or Deca Bank or soci general Forge um we luckily now uh deployed most of the custody Tech Solutions so that takes um some time um and once you're there you're actually then actually the journey is really starting and on that Journey I'm particularly excited around I mean like it's a bus word tokenization but to get onto the Journey of tokenization and do it end to end like that's what we're really looking at um and end to end means there's the pre-booking or pre- Assurance um the primary or the tokenization itself then

the primary selling and the secondary uh Market afterwards and bringing liquidity to that so I'm I'm not particularly excited about one thing in it I'm excited that like the ecosystem is starting and we see really seeing this um at the very let's say Genesis um to use that word um and we're seeing that the banks are getting onto it I'm also interested um in in various other Innovations actually uh Ripple is bringing uh to the market together with Partners uh among them is for example our partnership with exela um or things that are coming out of our grants program which are mostly to do with interoperability um and driving uh obviously volume also to xrp Ledger um in itself um and seeing the things coming together finally uh in a more simplistic form is

actually what I'm what I'm really um loving to see right now great Anna IIA anything that you want to add that you're particularly uh excited about at the moment you can start uh yeah sure so uh since the Inception of we we've been focusing on the development of retail products so providing uh an access to crypto and crypted to Fiat products to a big audience of just common people regular people so and currently we're focusing on the polishing of the UI and ux just to make it as easy as possible for just normal normal uh private individual right so this is actually the biggest challenge to to to focus on convenience and the the easiness to use so of course we're adding some new

features just to give you an idea we are almost uh finished our integration of Lights spark so we have here guys from Light spark today so and we we are moving forward but uh I think starting from last year we we we decided to catch the trend of um different kind of B2B collaborations because we see that um many traditional financial institutions joining the space now including some traditional Banks right and of course uh they don't need to reinvent the will they don't need to spend uh resources on building something from scratch right so they're coming to customer companies like us to get an additional support to Simply get a white label solution or any kind of plug-

andplay solution so and uh with this part I'm the most excited because actually we polished a lot of retail products over years and now we're sharing these products with other mostly traditional financial institutions and this is the very exciting Journey because you see the transformation you see the evolution of some traditional Banker with 200 years of of experience behind uh behind his or her bank and now you see how they're finally uh convinced to to add this you know new uh products into their traditional portfolios this is like something really interesting I love listening to you guys you're talking about Safety and Security and you know everything's starting with Simplicity right and that seems to be

the new trend that's um that's picking off that for the first time we're taking so much effort into looking at how do we make things simple so for us we're tangum we're a crypto coldw that company for those uh who may have joined a little bit late but um we are as simple as just you you tap and you go we're mobile first e certified um there's all of these positives that come with a really simple solution in the market so we're trying to solve for that always uh right now we have a normal tangent wallet system so tap and go systems uh you can go seedless if you want you can go with a seed phrase if you want uh we will always advocate for seedless because I think there's something to be said about not having that extra risk attached to having all of your seed

phrases possibly exposed so we advocate for that option and for that Simplicity um secondly I do want to bring up that we're actually developing Something That We're launching later on this month which is going to be tangum ring and we're going to be bringing wearables for the first time to the crypto scene so it will be something in this kind of format won't be in this color um but that's something that we're developing right now and it will be as simple as you can have self- custody in your ability to use at all times don't worry nobody can tap this and run away with your crypto it's backed up it's got access codes and everything um but that's something that we're bringing to the space we're solving for safety security and um yeah so I can link my crypto wallet to my aura ring well this is technically an

aura ring yes I'm not allowed to show you the actual product right now but um uh it's exactly the same kind of format so you would just be able to tap your card to your phone um well your ring to your phone and that way you can authenticate that it's you making that transaction and yeah for the first time it's in a different format very cool I mean in the first 10 minutes already we've already talked about a number of different things that you guys are working on right this is such a fast moving space um but with that also comes uh the fact that you have new networks launching you have Forks of existing networks you have new Concepts like uh like reaking things like layer toos on on bitcoin with with all of this

emerging layers to this technology how do you keep up with that how do you decide what you're going to build um and and deal with this multifaceted M multi layered technology when you're deciding what products to develop um Casper should we start back with you sure um it's such a fast moving space uh so if you're going to try and build everything yourself um You probably will fail uh because it's so hard um when crypto Finance was founded actually the company had to build a lot of things itself that's also why we have this like uh storage solution now and and a few other things uh but nowadays there are very specialized providers for very specific

things uh that you might require and so I think it's really important to to focus on what's your Niche what's your added value and to double down on that um and for us it's like security trust being regulated being compliant bringing like a trusted access into the crypto Market um and we really want to safeguard client's assets uh so that's where we put the focus on and then if we have if we see developments in the market we try to partner up um and then bring the same standard also to kind of the partners we work with and make sure we can build a holistic endtoend solution that sticks to our values um so that we stick to our Niche and we kind of try to to to bring that forward as

much as we can I think that's that's the way to go especially with um yeah the market is moving so quickly uh it's very hard to keep up Max what do you think about this yeah I'm actually just thinking about about the answer and how I can add on that because I mean like already our two um uh or like the particular area where I'm working at at Ripple which is R custody um we have focused always at Meto which was RI custody before we've always focused on being just a technology provider because we don't have to deal with all this license and compliance uh situation then and obviously that already is bringing more Focus to something but I could imagine that uh I mean like you guys have to pick like everybody has to pick a focus to be to be good at something because we heard

like all of us are thinking about security I mean like definitely when we built this Tech we always thought about security for us the nightmare was if somebody is going to lose their s um so it's really like if somebody's going to lose the key is it worse that somebody loses the key and can never have access to it again or is it uh worse that somebody steals the key because then I could still get the assets back right and just thinking about that question and it's very core H and trying to solve that and then actually all the developments you mentioned this like like let's just take staking what are you doing because for not having somebody losing the key or not having somebody actually being the key stolen we have to focus on a particular thing and then staking again brings another

focus into it are we doing this ourselves are we connecting a partner so it's always this question do you build it yourself do you partner up do you buy another company and then how do you bring it all together right and I mean like in that space it's just creating such a headache so what we actually did we went a little bit more into the simple forms and tried to do and actually deploy the simple thing together with the big bangs I mean like mentioned it before I mean I don't know how long it took us to sometimes close a bank in itself and then even roll out the custody product so if we are like doing this for the next 5 year the same thing at the same speed because we want to do everything at the same time we're not going to get anywhere so we actually

really went back into doing really the simple stuff um and then doing that really well and then from there developing into other let's say all these innovations that are coming on The Ledges from my side I can add that it was as simple as we just asked the community what they wanted um I think we over complicate a lot of things nowadays and uh we definitely prefer to take the approach of the community knows best and we co-create the product together so it's very easy for us to have that connection with them and open that communication and me as a marketing person um I think it's on marketers generally to open up that communication so it's very horizontal so you have the ability to co-create the products together with the end user in mind um but with their voice as well so it's a relatively easy answer you make the

product with the end user but you also co-create it together you can't just come to Market and and expect them to just take it um without a second thought they have to co-create the product together and I think that's the narrative that's that's going forward and we started it with a very politically minded ethos that it was open and it was for everybody so why don't we give people the opportunity to create that together with us yeah yeah I agree actually we have created together we have created a lot of features over the last let's say five years and we really over complicated a lot of features so now it's time to see it and simplify it and to pack it if you'd like to get another billion of users to the market we need to make everything very easy to use right and and uh we are focusing on

it right now so as you said there are a lot of a lot of moving Parts crypto never sleeps every day something new is coming like new protocols new new features whatever so uh as Anna said we we are always in touch with with our customers so actually we invest a lot in our customer service uh it works 247 365 days a year so we listen to our customers so sometimes we're doing some uh deep uh surveys asking customers and potential customers about what they'd like to see on the platform and also which is actually very important point so I was always saying that crypto is not a revolution it's Evolution right and I keep saying that so that being said that everything should be organically implemented into traditional you know Financial product so that's why

like uh like simple question what would bring another I don't know million users to platforms like us some simple uh products like like cards like like uh banking iband which are smoothly integrated to to crypto conversion service so and this is our Focus actually we we listen to our customers and we focus on products from traditional world that can help us to bring another millions or billions of of users and when you've all decided to bring a product to Market or a new product feature to Market I mean you will look at the product itself and what makes it the best is it security is it ease of use is it interoperability with other products that you offer um then

likely you'll look at Partnerships are you partnering with any firms and are they the best firms to partner with to to offer this to Market and then you will look at you know the price what is the price that users Partners firms are willing to pay for this product um and I think we we all here strive to to have the best product in class but when it comes down to it and and we've all been in a situation where you've spoken to a customer or a partner and you you said oh why did you why did did you choose product X or why did you work with firm X and they've said oh well they were the cheapest and you say ah okay um so we're all sitting here you know striving to build these great products um that

deliver everything our users need but how much of it does really come down to price is it just a race to the bottom to the the low as bips or do do users whether these be retail or institutional still really care about having the best product in class and and and know that that not might not necessarily mean having the cheapest so max let's let's start with you what what do you think about that so giving the USP it's deployment flexibility combined with the security that's that's what our clients bought into and their price doesn't play the biggest role once you're in the budget so these budgets are like in the multi-millions some of them are in the

billions of the it and Security Services departments in Banks so price becomes very uh insensitive there and um and then you go from there but really deployment flexibility security those are the two things were absolute key for us um to be successful in the last uh months and years here someone for you Casper I can maybe add I think we're um going a little bit through what the financial industry has been through uh where for instance custody very recently was not really considered to something you should pay for and a lot of exchanges were offering free custody and everyone seemed to be fine with that but then all of the sudden you have uh a market event like

an FDX which blows up and a lot of assets that get lost and then all of the sudden the market gets repriced and all of the sudden uh people are willing to pay for custody and they they will look at who is my custodian and do they have audited financials and are they really segregating my assets and are they in a good jurisdiction where there is a law that allows you to segregate assets etc etc and so you get these Market events that all of the sudden reconfigure the market um and typically unfortunately they're quite painful um in my personal view I think currently there is again a lot of downward pressure on the on the custody fees for instance uh but it is because a lot of people perceive like

cust custodians as like for like um and I do think there are still differences uh between custodians in terms of do they really understand blockchain the protocols hard Forks things like that and all the risks associated with that what kind of Technology are they running under the hood is it something and how have they deployed it what are their processes around it these are all very important things and um I do think we will also see a repricing happen again between custodians based on some some Market events and and you see every time this happens also the regulator steps in and tries to force the market to take these things more seriously and protect investors which which which is ultimately a good thing um so yeah I do

think it it helps kind of mature the industry um and it helps to grow up the industry and to provide kind of larger asset pools that are more stable more safe and then the market can build on top of that so I guess that's a good example of why kind of product can't work in in a vacuum in a silo in that if you build a great product but no one knows why it's the greatest um what uh you know what why it's different to other products out there there's no uh clear narrative around the product then you know might it might be unsuccessful like you said you know if you if you've got to explain you've got to go out there and explain to customers what the differences are between some of these products to see if if yours is the best fit to make sure that they have that

information so it doesn't doesn't just become about price alone what are your thoughts on that I'm thinking about well you mentioned USP right um there's I was listening to all of you and going there's so many different ways that one can uncover this right right um so it's a little bit tough to answer because it's it's a ineffable amount of factors that people look at especially in the B BC Market people look at uh who your partners are not just in terms of um where they choose to hold their assets but it's um who are you as a company by working with them so the reputation of the partners that we work with so for example uh we have a service called tangum Express uh it's a buying swapping staking um everything kind of allinone platform

allinone um um so people come there and um they with our partners they become um we're interwined all in one so even though we're the self- custodians right uh we do have to work with Partners uh and their reputations really matter so it's everything from reviews uh how people talk about them on Reddit uh what the mood is um so we're not just partnering just by ourselves it's also their reputation really matters um but I think industry events really do have a big effect on how people treat uh the industry in a whole and you can't just look at it as well there's a partner and that's it um it's kind of hard to find partners and um I think it's just about doing due diligence anything to add IIA yeah just

very quickly I think as for security is just something must have no need to speak about it it's just must have right but if we compare like convenience and pricing uh of course I think focus should be on the convenience so because as for pricing it's just Evolution I think times where it was some kind of a robbery when like some on ramp of ramp providers chared like 5% to buy Bitcoin uh those times are gone so now we're speaking about some rational pricing so uh but still customer uh mostly interested in in some convenience like if someone would like to jump on a trade just because of volatility like like if like 1:00 a.m. in the morning Bitcoin jumps or crashes right someone just want

to jump on it immediately so and we should provide the customer with with with with this opportunity to do it quickly with without any interruptions and uh all these kind of things because the potential outcome of the successful trade can be much higher than just few bips of commission right so that means that the focus is on the convenience uh but not on the pricing but at the same time pricing is just evolving so like few years ago it was really robbery from some of service providers now it's okay maybe tomorrow we'll speak about some some price competition but I think we're still far away from Price competition okay and some I guess what you're saying is also that some price competition is good to have a competitive balanced Market um

but as long as you're kind of presenting the the facts about each of the offerings in the in in their true lights you can compare light to light yeah actually as as as for prising of course we're dependent on on traditional service providers like Banks right so and very good point that more banks are joining the space now and the pricing of banks to casps and basps and the technology providers are just going to be like normalized let let me put it this way normalized so because again before it was something crazy with with this prices because Banks considered this indic as a super super high risk now we are just uh tech industry among others so and the competition from banking side is good uh in terms of

pricing and you've all mentioned you know banks in one form of another and and along with banks kind of you can group in regulated institutions in general and even in the product space you can't ignore the regulatory landscape and the impact of the regulatory regulatory landscape how do you build products when the regulatory landscape uh is continually moving those goalposts are shifting something one day is in a in a gray area and then it it's it's allowed or it's not allowed do you do you build taking into account of the changing regulatory landscape do you build and say we hope that what we're building just Falls within where we're

we're hoping and praying how do you navigate um that constantly moving um Target U of crypto regulation to make sure that what your building will um will be viable in two three four years time I don't know ier if you want to stop yeah so again it's another must have Point uh similar to security so we we we must be compliant right so we we must uh have this costs to to have uh strong and professional compliance and legal teams and as you can see here I don't know maybe like 15% of the audience are lawyers here right in the conference because it's the most one of the most important topics to to to be compliant with with the with the local

and Global regulations but speaking about our product development so of course we have to um always uh pred deserve some some time on our road maps to work on some some uh legal related tasks to give you an idea like end of this month uh ma regulations for stable coin is coming so we have to adjust our platform and migrate from like unregulated stable coins to regulated stable coins and our uh I would say Mission here to do it uh in a way that our typical customer will even will not see it of course maybe it will it will be some some short not Interruption but short uh inconvenience that um customer

will need to Mig migrate from one stable coin to another but our role is to do it in the most easy in in the most convenient way right and again we we we we have to pred deserve some time in our development team to to do it so uh the good news about MAA is that we we we knew it right so we've been speaking about MAA for the last couple of not couple of years but a year seems like at least 10 but it's probably not that long so and we know that we have another half a year dedicated to other parts of MAA so yeah but again it's another must have Anna regulation is um is something that goes hand in hand always uh and I don't believe in a world where it's completely uh just have give them the

reins Let Them Burn as somebody said right um I do think that regulation plays an important part uh but it's also well we are a product that is very hard to regulate right uh we have been very uh blessed to not have regulatory pressure in terms of well we are a cold wallet company there's not really much you can do it's akin to placing a gate around a park but having no fence around the park uh You Can't Ban it if you were to ban self- custody it would pop up immediately that we would regress back to ages in which we had flash drives and hard drives and that was the only way that you could store your crypto assets safely and if you were to ban it it would always be going against the grain so to speak because as humans we're always wanting to feel it touch it it's

mine um so so from my perspective it's something that we've been very blessed not to worry about in in the grander scheme right um but it is something we keeping a big eye on and we do have to partner with other partners uh so something that we're doing is we're working with Visa um we're bringing out a CT crypto wallet but you could also pay with it in stores um so with that partnership together we're able to not only onboard Their audience and our audience into a co- Mutual partnership it's um it opens self C but in a way that is open to well you can just pay for it in a store you can buy your coffee with a cold crypto wallet and that's something that could only be possible if we work together with

somebody who's got uh skin in the game such an amazing feature right y Max um yeah I'm going to keep it short here I mean like we started with uh working some of the most regulated entities around the the globe and they just taught us what they are expecting from our product otherwise it's not fit for purpose uh we would have never been able to go through any DD afterwards of all these Banks and at the end we just had to be on the lookout we had to anticipate regulation uh so we build an agnostic product to all sorts of compliance Partners uh let it be for kyt travel rule etc etc and then we just needed to have a technology that is adaptable to all of their needs um and that now really uh gives us a head start because anything regarding because our

regulation is not one particular it's not Mika it's not this or that jurisdictions it's everywhere around the globe we have to look out for everything and and um the technology itself just needs to be agnostic to these to these other partners doing the actual compliance job then yeah shall I shall I chime in as well um I think that the regulator is always trying to catch up and it's natural for them to be behind kind of what's going on on the frontier of of innovation um and and I myself I like to innovate so I think there's there's a couple things uh that I think make a lot of sense first of all you always start from first principles you look what already exists and you kind of apply that also if you do something new so yes you should segregate assets and not

co-mingle them yes you should have a plan in case your staking provider disappears so you can return the assets I mean some of these things are just things that are true Ina traditional financial markets you should also apply into the crypto Market uh because the regulator will come sooner or later uh but also like here in Switzerland I think we're quite lucky that we can have pretty open discussions with finma um so I had a chat with them on reaking I didn't get too much wiser but at least it was a great conversation and they their heads didn't explode at the the thought of reaking but it also helps to bring these topics already to them while you're thinking about them so they can also start thinking about it and and you can help them shape some of

the regulation and make them aware of some of the the risks uh and also how you're thinking about them and I I think we did the same around staking in Switzerland where the the industry actually provided feedback to fin and they ended up adjusting some of their guidance based on that so I think that's also so really cool and this is something where you're very privileged in a country like Switzerland where you have that open dialogue and you have a good regulator um and in the end yeah you just have to look out how do I look out best for the investor or for my client to make sure that they always are protected and secure and if you use that as first principles and you design your products in that way typically when the regulator comes in you're already uh one step ahead of the

curve and so so just to kind of summarize some of the things that we we've talked about today uh firstly how fast-paced uh building in crypto is um but with lots of innovation um you have to focus on security focus on what your clients are asking you for to prioritize uh focus on delivering a premium product that doesn't necessarily mean the cheapest product but but a premium product working with the right Partners to do so um and and not escaping regulation none of us can escape regulation and you've all talked about uh different things that you're each working on that you are excited about interested in uh for the next year

but but the the work of your respective firms aside what is one um thing that someone else is building or developing in the crypto industry um that you are excited about so another firm maybe you know for me might be my uh uh wearable uh Anna but uh if we start if we start again with Casper and work our way back just very quickly what is it that that you wish you had come up with that someone else is working on right now maybe don't give away any confidential information um but but what would you pick um oh there's a lot of different things um if I would have to like me personally I'm quite excited about

reaking I don't know yet if it's something uh good or bad I'm still trying to wrap my head around it but I'm I'm quite excited about uh the potential that it opens um I I do see some similarities to rehypothecation in the traditional Financial market so it looks quite daunting but it's and also something which is quite uh interesting on how you're going to explain that to investors but uh I find it quite a novel Innovation and um I'm looking forward to see where it takes us um that's one of the things I'm looking at yeah for me it would be two problems so it's on one side it's fragmented liquidity that's very bad we have to pull the liquidity together so everybody's working on that great on on the other side

interoperability so perhaps this goes hand in hand sometimes it doesn't go hand in hand and then thirdly the usability around these two elements and solving these two problems that is absolutely key in I mean I I mentioned exela before that's just one example but um it's absolutely great to see that people are working on these two or three problems from my side I think um well I'm in marketing and uh for me everything's about usability and being able to reach the end user and I I think the answer for me is until we solve really um the problem with design being kind of unintuitive that ux issue that we're talking about it's kind of hard to to pick out exactly from my industry um who's doing something that's that's very

interesting for me to look at so I would prefer to kind of delegate this answer and just say we really need to solve the interoperability issue and the ux issues that we do currently have um but for my side I think that's about it yeah a lot of interesting things happening uh in our Market a lot of new technologies new protocols new features a lot a lot of tasty things but I think we are a bit in a bubble so we should look you know at a bigger picture are you predicting the top you're saying I can give you I can give you I can give you like like an illustration to to how we can look bigger uh last year last summer I was sitting in my garden during the night drinking wine with drinking

wine with with my wife and I I was shocked because I noticed that there is a train literally train like SBB train running through the sky I thought that maybe it was too much wine or something like that but in reality I discovered that it was star link launch so when they're launching their satellites firstly they look like like a train right and then they're spreading right so we should use uh projects like like star link as a benchmark to us because like it started with a very good idea to make internet accessible anywhere to anyone right and it succeeded so uh we should be on a mission to make crypto accessible by anyone and anywhere of course with with the with the all regulatory nuances of course but I think

we should learn from other Industries including again Aerospace and starlink because we have such a beautiful technology that can bring a lot of values to financial market and not only right so and the point is that we should we should uh from time to time look outside of our bubble to learn from others and even collaborate with others so yeah I'm excited about these kind of things I like that I like that so what you're saying is we should be continuing to think bigger y um beyond what we're working on in this space there's a lot what being worked on as well but but but think bigger think about adoption um think about use cases outside of the industry and and take inspiration um from from other Industries with the big

thinkers that's why I like projects like tanm who are partnering with Visa producing this cards rings I like idea of lightning that because it's making everything like like fast and and convenient uh reple technology with this uh xtrap Ledger I think will bring a lot of new and convenient uh things to to our users so yeah it's a lot of interesting things happening but that at the end we're not trading with each other all the time like you know we're going outside of the whole thing that's I think is the main idea right that's great thank you um well if anyone has any questions um around any of the products that that anyone here on stage is working on please do come and find us later but I just like to thank all of

the panelists for your great thoughts let's give it up for our panel