NFT Panel with Dacoco, Linum Labs, MME and ChainSecurity

Transcript

[Applause] [Music] so um instead of doing the presentations the usual way i'd like to kind of see how you connect to the topic that we're going to talk about today so i'd like to start with saro can you explain to us what is your connection to nft and who you are in connections to this topic today how do you work with nfts yeah sure so i'm sarah mckenna it's great to be here with all of you um i'm the co-founder of alien worlds which is the largest nft metaverse by users in the world you can see that data on dap radar

looking by plays or transactions and also by users across seven days and 30 days so in our metaverse users use nfts to proof-of-work mine the fungible token trillium and also in future to engage in other battling activities and quests and so on we're the only blockchain game or metaverse that's constructed on three chains or on ethereum the binance smart chain and wax and we'll be extending the metaverse out into other chains and other gaming applications in time thank you very much sarah so on your side we have been the point of view of the builder of of daos of this metaverse thank you very much

paula hi my name is paula petit and i'm the chief commercial officer at lenum labs linum labs is a blockchain product development house so we build custom blockchain solutions for our clients typically on ethereum and evm compatible chains um we do quite a few an array of developments so dows um tokens nfts but this year has been just the year of the nft so i see a lot of and i talk to a lot of our incoming clients and i'd say about 70 of our work this year has been nft related so nft marketplaces credentials on nfts um yeah so i'd say about 70 of our work in a variety of nft areas um yeah has

been nft based this year would you say also that you have clients who are kind of like uh alien worlds who are building this uh yeah so um we've we work with a couple gaming clients um primarily we've worked with quite a few um nft marketplaces so we did consult and help dolce gabbana launch their nft a couple months ago um but a couple other just marketplaces for each niche industry so art for the music world um art for youtubers um it it's an endless uh request stream so that's what we talk about nearly every day so so saro you have more this this vision of being you know in it of developing it and you have more of a helicopter vision seeing a lot

of different projects who do that type of thing yes thank you um so we have andreas you also have a helicopter vision right how do you work with nft as a law firm yeah hi everybody i'm andreas i'm from mme a law firm here in switzerland i'm heading our fintech dlt team um well i'm pretty much doing the same thing you are but only related to a legal and regulatory tax perspective so we covered a small part of the helicopter vision uh we've been dealing with nfd projects actually probably before the term nft was known and they were called differently uh just digital assets but that's at the end of the day what it is and um yes so we advise secondary marketplaces places we

advise private market issuance both a lot of integration entertainment marketing measures gaming so pretty much everything all right thank you very much and no one or number one i don't know how i should how i should call you that's uh that's the paradox of uh of the name and also of the the let's say the the collective um time we are leaving to to um transfer the ecological um threat or world we are living in interesting and um yeah and my painting is about those mountain and the and the the city the encounter and i'm interested in the paradox of nft as a property and what it can bring

for the artist for the creation as i was saying and your creation so that's why having this this panel will be really interesting thank you so you already kind of introduced yourself before and you were doing the exhibition here with arcade digital right yeah exactly okay so you have the artist perspective so we have the artist's perspective legal perspective kind of building house perspective and then they're really within the the core of everything um so thank you so much guys for joining this panel um uh i was introduced before but i'll do a quick intro my name is emilia raffo from chain security um we are blockchain cyber security company and we focus mostly on smart contract audits typically of d5 projects um you might

know some of our clients like maker dao compound curve and some other big names in in defy so if you're interested to get your smart contracts audited feel free to to reach out and in the nft world we are also working with rarible for example um so it's also important to to secure that for sure all right so let's kick this off at any point uh if you have questions feel free to raise your hand we have two people with microphones who are going to walk so we won't wait until the end to have questions from the audience so feel free to grab their attention okay guys what kicked off this nft wave so we had i think cryptokitties in 2017 is that

what kicked it off what happened now paula maybe you'd like to ensure um yeah so we've had nfts since i forget the exact year but it was very early on it was yeah i forget what it was called but cryptokitties was the first one that came to everybody's mind around 2017-2018 um but i'd say this year 2021 was the real year of this big wave so i was working in the same company last year got one inquiry on nfts this year it's every day basically so i think it's a combination of lockdown the pandemic closing up everybody's online and they're maybe looking at art online so i think we had the collectors move online and that you had big sales like people and and those

that went for crazy large amounts and then nba top shot around january everybody was referencing nba top shot they're like i want one like that that has gone down but um yeah i'd say that's the big beginning all right all right thank you um so we have this craze now beyond that what do you think is really the positive things about nfts what do nfts bring but like concretely that wasn't brought before florence you were talking about something called the streets can you explain a little bit what it is and how that benefits artists yeah um according to the countries and uh for a long time ago when you were producing um an art or painting or whatever art production

you were supposed to be entitled for a resell right if the buyer would resale it to someone and so that's a theoretical and it is practically never applied like the the new buyer never come back to to give his fees to the to the artist so maybe and that's the hope that you can see in the nft uh we will have this into the contract so that the creator will automatically receive after each resale a part of it so he can continue his work and still produce and uh yeah that's a that's a strong hope with the with the nft so we see the regulation related to that that's really interesting it kind of opens also the question of of copyrights and you know and

what we see music with royalties and so on how do you think nfts are gonna are gonna change copyrights for artists i don't know yeah that's it it's a question for the whole panel you don't have to feel like that that's a broad just one word on that that's a broad question because the nft allows to to bring a legitimity for for digital art for video art and video and motion have been looking for this legitimity for four years and nft bring this this attention so now the question of a trademark copy etc that's what is at stake um with the physical art you don't have this problem that's a challenge

that may be undressed again yeah i would be happy to give my thoughts on that but basically i mean i fully agree with physical art it's quite clear you receive a copy and you kind of know what you can do pretty much anything other than copying it and so you can hang it up and digital art you can could do anything you can with digital uh data but when we look at terms and conditions and i don't know how many of you who purchase nfc is actually read through those terms and conditions uh so please can we see a show of hands who has ever write those terms and conditions and after first of all who bought an nft already can you raise your hand

all right and out of those keep your hand up if you've read the terms and conditions still impressive but if you read through them i think and we've drafted quite a couple of those we read through many of those and i think they're more work there is in the nft so the more artwork there is related to the nft the less rights you normally get related to the underlying art so when you look at the the big like the crypto punks and other nfts you can do pretty much anything with the art based on the terms you can copy for yourself you can create merchandise article you can make posters you can sell them so

you're really free that would change the concept of ip ownership related to art quite significantly but when you look at nfts which have a high degree of work inside of them because an artist had to paint for for a long time or work on it normally those artists they tend to limit those rights again back to pretty much what you normally would have is a physical work you can you may copy it for your own use but you can't copy it for any commercial usage so we kind of going back in that direction related to those nfts which have a high value from a workload very cool um yeah we typically relay the

legal questions and those aspects over to people like you but you know i think with the nfts it is about that ownership at the end so anybody can you know take the screenshot of the nft and post it but i at least the community internally i don't think that's looked too highly upon and also you're not going to get any revenue for your screenshot um so you can do it i think there's still ways to work around it because right now it's it's a collectible so we're hoping it goes up but over time how do we kind of mature on that is it just you have a screenshot or you have your jpeg and this one's worth it worth a large amount of money and then the screenshot over

here is not i've seen also there's some talk of adobe getting into the nft space and trying to block um screenshots and and saving nft jpegs as a normal jpeg that sounds ambitious but um it could be interesting um but i think there's a lot to learn in this space still and a lot for it's mature thank you yeah that's a really interesting question so that the whole paradigm of being very concerned about the copyright around the nft is for collectibles nfts or nfts that derive their value because of the art or imagery that's associated with them we build nfts that have

utility values so they're read by in our case gaming smart contracts and you can do things with them so in our case you know for example the tool nftn or in combination with a land nft actually allows you to proof of work mine are token trillium so you wouldn't be able to proffer a different nft to those smart contracts and actually have it do the work of mining right so that's actually what the the smart contracts are doing they're they're perceiving whether the nft is the one that that it's claiming to be um i think you know provenance is something that blockchain is really good at so you know you can tell with any of these nfts that you're discussing whether they came from the collection that is being kind of

that it's purporting to be part of so that's a very natural use case of of blockchain um the actual imagery associated with it then has these kind of questions that you're talking about but being able to verify that an nft is the one that it's claiming to be is really easy to do unchained sorry so you're very involved in daos right um and you you said that you could use nft to kind of create more functionalities to doubt to reward the people in the doubt can you tell us a bit about about that yeah so we um we've been building downs for many years we were a block producer on a number of chains and we were formed as a tokenized dow so our block production revenues

were going into the dao itself and were then community managed and at a certain point we decided to gamify that so to use all the same dow tech that we've been building and using for years and was quite battle tested but to put that into a gaming context so what we've built is six uh dows that are competing within a single economy for trillium for the scarce resource and we now have millions of users um and uh every day hundreds hundreds of thousands of users and users are staking into these planet dows and they're competing between each other now these dow smart contracts can hold any um eligible token which in our case is an eos io related token so it can hold trillium which is our native token in

which the dows do receive through daily inflation from our game economy but those dow smart contracts could also or those accounts could also hold nfts and in fact some of our dao communities are already beginning to curate and think about prior to our taos actually being open to elected governance what kind of treasury of nfts they would want to hold within their dow smart contracts so you so you know and in fact they're even thinking about some silverbacked nfts some other collectibles nfts um certainly our own nfts so i mean daos are great constructs for community management of tokens and those tokens can be fungible tokens or non-fundable tokens

interesting so um if you're if you're going to reward people for some type of of work you could say with nfts does that make an income does that make it taxable where do we stand our own taxes with nfts i'm glad i'm not a tax lawyer no i mean that mostly that two questions related to that one is more the regulatory side as soon as you create income out of some certain kind of contract world the question is well how is it regulatory wise to be treated and the otherwise of course if you have income you need to tax it i think it's as simple as that and possibly you need to pay vit on that as well depending

where you are so there's a lot of stuff for for lawyers and tax attorneys especially and do you help clients with that what is the best you know the best practice to be completely legal you know completely compliant um when you're working with nfts and and those in that sense well that depends what you mean with nft because i think we currently have two models of nftv discussing we have the collectibles i mean it's digital art that's not it's not a security i think so far uh i think it's quite a clear understanding so you can issue that question there often is whether depending on the jurisdictions you sail it from whether aml regulations

apply because on certain art sales aml regulations apply i think in switzerland this is not the case so i think it's fairly straightforward but as soon as the nft isn't representing a collectible art things may change you can create stocks as nfts why not and then of course the regulatory logic follows the one which applies to stocks so we really we normally look at what the nft is and then we decide what the regulatory regime applies but again collectible art or in-game digital assets i think that's fairly straightforward in a regulatory sense and so i i've heard some people saying that you know the quite inflated values

of collectible arts or nfc in that sense you know in-game items and so on is inflated because sometimes it's used as a money laundering tool is that is that an accusation you've heard before or is that kind of true or what do you what are your thoughts on that floor doesn't like it no one that there is in the the art market so i mean the question is is valuable i think that's a whole economy or trade the anonymity that you can have with the nft that is added value but you can use it on different ways yeah i would say it's it's not the main thing i would say there's some that

exist in it just like it exists in the traditional art world it's known that that happens with like a canvas that has like one red dot on and it goes for millions that that is known so i could see that happening a bit in the nft art world but i would not want to conflate that with the broader image of what nfts themselves can accomplish just like way back when we didn't want cryptocurrency just to be for like drugs and and like the silk market um yeah silk road so yeah sure it may exist in a corner but it is not i think what the main movement is about i i can very much agree i think you know art always has been a market which has been exposed to certain money laundering risks um but

that's also because there are a lot of cash transactions involved in the ordinary art market i think with nfts we don't have cash transactions obviously we have blockchain based transactions and we can um review those transactions much better than in any cash case so actually the money laundering risks should be reduced per se well i'm certain there are some illicit sources of income which then flow into nfts but i think this it's not one of the key risks there i don't see that the other thing i guess to say is that the system is still figuring out how to describe value because it's so new and that happens in any really new system you know is that people are trying to

figure out what has longevity you know what are what value are other people ascribing to these items so i think over time as the system matures we'll see more regular pricing and so typically i mean if you look at some platforms you know where nfts are traded i'm gonna name names but yeah some platforms um and you see people who are basically trading nfts with themselves or with their friends uh to kind of inflate the value and then being able to sell so for the people in the room or for people who are considering maybe to buy nfts how can they prevent you know falling prey to that type of uh i wouldn't say scam but of uh you know market

manipulation how do you assess the fair market value of an nft the value of anything is what you would like to pay for it right so you know for our utility nfts you might consider why you would want to own that nft you know what will it help you to do in our game for example or in future gaming applications for collectibles nfts it's whether you really like that thing you perhaps are part of the community you know the other participants in the community anytime you walk in blind into you know a new situation you're probably going to be quite vulnerable to being taken advantage of so i think it's but i will say that you know crypto communities and blockchain communities are great places to get to know other people i mean this is the social dimension of of blockchain

and so get in there get to know people get in the telegram get in the discord and through that you'll start to you know become a little bit more aware and a little bit more savvy of you know the different collections and what's going on um yeah i mean you can keep watching your nft and get your friends to bid on it and yeah maybe that specific nft can go up just like you know sometimes exchanges will wash their volume to make their exchange go up but um i think those things don't play out over the long run i think they're like they're small things you know at the end of the day you know which exchanges are are the best exchanges and i think over time you will also know um so maybe i could have my friends bid up my personal nft in this larger collection but if

that collection as a whole isn't going up or if it just doesn't make sense that mine is that high sure you may get a hit here and there from perhaps a new person in the space but you know all of these typically come with other nfts in that same collection so you can kind of see a range that they typically exist in so it could work but i don't think it's it's the main one okay so benchmarking would be an idea of a way to see if if the prices are reasonable yeah like each of these collections seems to have kind of a range so you know the floor on crypto punks now is like 400k so if i see a crypto punk for 400k that's probably right um however if i see a collection a brand new collection of you know a new artist and all of the other ones are

going for one eath and i've had my friends bid up mine to look like 400k i mean probably that won't that won't go um so you know the blockchain also is is so good in that it's transparent and you can see reputation so i can see you know all the sales that have come from this collection and what they've gone for across the board and the reputation of that artist based on you know how long they've been there so if you if you want to dive into it all the information is there on the blockchain so yeah yeah no maybe to say that uh it's um it's always back to the the question of uh uh what do you want to own something for and then after us who do is through these through the nft so what you buy do

you want to be part of a community is it to to trade and maybe to to gain value is it to have it for you is it a self-esteem is it uh to encourage the the artist to produce more i think the whole question and the how you can benchmark the different value and investment are in fact this uh this simple question of what do you want to hone that for what what will be the use of it no i mean thank you i really liked you know what you said before that it's it's kind of the same as as regular art right it's it's the same as well i mean there are you know artists who have this huge market value some people don't really know why some new people enter think they're making a bargain so yeah it's

it's typically the same patterns that we see happening um going away from that so paula you you were saying that there were other other functions to nfts than collectibles other other usage could you tell us which yeah so um obviously collectibles has taken the main stage right now they're going for huge amounts of money everybody who's kind of not maybe in the space or maybe is in the space but doesn't deal with nfts regularly as you mentioned they know it as art but there is so much more than just art and collectibles i mean of course art with utility um such as the ones in in the games which i think is very cool but you also have um you can do credentials on them so we've done a project in south africa where we partnered with their

government to basically create credentials for their degrees and different education aspects that they do there because they have a a fraudulent degree kind of issue there so you could it was a pilot program to help these education institutions um have their certificates and degrees as nfts on the blockchain uh which blockchain was that what on which blockchain was that we just did it on the um an ethereum sidechain so we did it on the poa network um but then there's other aspects you know i do imagine one day tickets could very easily be on the blockchain so you can make sure they're not um scams tickets when you buy them for like a concert or something um you could also have you know there's talk of real estate being

nfts eventually so you have you know your deeds and your ownership of the house as an nft one day there's still a lot to to to go there um and then yeah we've also done um you know some things with some luxury brands and some some big companies that want to help prove that their items aren't counterfeit so they would have like an nft that is attributed to their luxury item so it couldn't get sold the real world item so it couldn't get sold or so you can have a certificate that shows that it's true so there is many um ways that this can continue to evolve supply chain as well i think this is just kind of the very beginning and i think it's good that everybody's very

interested in it now but um i think we're going to see a lot of maturity over the next year or two and how then do we connect the digital world with the physical world because it's kind of you know easy to say oh well this nft represents uh you know the your house or your degree or no no how do you create this connection between in between the two i want to pass it to him actually i'm looking at you because you were talking but this is always open to the panel whoever wants to no but at the end of the day it's it's a qui um a question of of a contractual relationship and underlying uh civil law norms so uh similar to to the old world with physical assets which you can tie to a piece of paper and say whoever owns that

piece of paper is owner of the underlying physical asset you can do the same thing with digital a digital token so it's the same logic it's a contract and it's an underlying regulatory framework supporting that those contracts actually are valid and represent what is claimed to be represented so it's principle is quite straightforward this morning there was a quite an interesting presentation um and the the presenter mentioned okay you don't want your your house to be a better instrument because you know what if you lose your key someone has it and then they own the house then would we see and if these being those bearer instruments that if someone takes your private key

then they own your your car your house or how would that no it's from a legal side it's not not that simple it's like normally when you kind of look at this nft as being a certificate for an ownership of an underlying you probably say that the assumption is that the holder of the entity actually is the owner but you could prove the other way you could then prove that it's not the case if someone loses it he doesn't you know relinquish his ownership just kind of leave your wallet somewhere [Laughter] so it's it's you can prove the other direction around so it's it's not as critical as it may seem at the first appearance and with regard to houses things are slightly more complicated

because the owner needs to be in most jurisdictions yet and need to be um kind of in the house on a registry which is a in most jurisdiction the government kind of maintained registry so the nft wouldn't really work in those cases okay okay so we're still at at the beginning of that um do you know in which jurisdictions you know we're moving the fastest towards that towards having this connection between real property and digital property i think in at least in switzerland it works very well so it's it's it's i mean we have already have a token representing physical

ownership in physical gold for example that we have issued we have consulted many projects in that way and there's actually no reason instead of using some some token to use an nft for the same thing so that's from a tech perspective that doesn't doesn't have an influence on the the legal side so you can easily do that uh i think in singapore it works well i would say in liechtenstein it also works with the dlt regulations they have there is those container token models which you could also design as nfts from a technical side so i think there are many jurisdictions where it works while we were talking about about legal questions i had another thing i wanted

to ask so and then as i stopped speaking on you so um recently i heard that um switzerland forbid access to the cryptokitties website and another website because it was gambling or something can you tell us a bit about this decision and what it means well yes very unfortunate thank you for the question no but uh basically how's this gambling law now works and that we have you can get a license for online gambling if you don't have a license the authorities can block access to your services by requesting the access internet access provider from blocking you like the

domain blocking and that normally happens for foreign online gambling operators that they're being put on those black lists they're being updated every three months or so and then transferred to the internet access provider which execute this request from the the guest bar that's this gambling authorities for lotteries and betting and what happened actually indeed in in october that was that uh cryptokitties were put on the list i think it was not about there's no recent decision they just do it randomly the internal decision then you can fight it and you can go to court if you would like to my understanding is they put it on that not because of the nft part but because

when you look at the terms of the crypto kitties they declare themselves as a game that you play and and obviously you need to purchase cryptokitties to participate you could have a benefit attic by breeding new cryptokitties as far as i know or by selling those and so probably the authorities they were quite fast and just say well it's a game it's it's money involved so it should be regulated so let's block that i think most likely if you look at it closer it's probably a wrong decision i think it's not a game as a lottery or a betting game it is it may be a game but which involves money but it's not a as a

game which would be regulated on the swiss law and in fact we're actually fighting through in courts a similar case not about cryptokit is about other digital assets about the game which has a similar function so we'll see who's right at the end of the day [Laughter] all right thank you we don't have that much time left um there were two questions i really wanted to ask before we before we start so i don't know if we have some you know wannabe artists in in the audience would you have some really practical short tips if someone wants to mint an nft to try to value their art and sell it do you have some recommendations as to how can people start doing that

today create so is there i mean how did you how did you go about it i mean did you gonna i went as i was working with uh with chris from arcat digital and uh we had this concept of um of linking uh painting with motion but also with the with an option for a project that i'm working on for the next two years that is uh to create from a painting a full immersive environment in 3d and on that base we were thinking hey it can be interesting to to do the exercise of meeting the spa to propose an nft so that when someone um buy it he has

the painting the motion and he has this option to receive this immersive environment within two years and so so we work on that and wanted also to offer the possibility and that that's what is coming that the the owner of this token can then resell a part of it so then he can also entertain uh and join community so that's how it started really to to yeah to to build a token that has a meaning in sense of curation and supporting the the development that was really the original idea and now um exploring with the with a minting different piece motion only

physical piece only a different variation and things are like this so for you the right path would be to to to partner with a company that knows how to accompany you in that journey i don't think there is a right path i think there are some some experience and some interaction to see where it goes what it brings and back to my initial purpose it's a how this will uh support the creativity and uh what we put um behind the the property so what value we what value we bring to the world through this uh economy and nft

sharings thank you yeah i'd love to add so in our metaverse um because of our open blockchain construction so all of our gaming logic is on chain one of the implications of this is that lots of other people companies groups communities artists can interact with gaming smart contracts or can can read our mining patterns and can get involved directly now there is a little bit of technical skill that's needed so there are some barriers to entry to that but it is all open and on chain and so one of the things that's happened is there's been a proliferation of decentralized community-based grassroots creativity um and and also commercial

activity actually so there are companies that have to have a division that is entirely focused on servicing the alien world metaverse um and they will for example if you go to uh one of these companies they will and you give them a list of the accounts or the lands for example that you'd like to incentivize mining on they will organize an airdrop of nfts as an extra incentive for mining on those lands and lands or nfts in our metaverse um and artists in fact are getting involved in that so we have a program that we're sort of facilitating called the metaversal art space where we're partnering with artists who um are offering some of their art they get the first mints we distribute um the rest of the series as part of mining

rewards within our mining game um but actually it doesn't need to involve us so you could just circumvent kind of us as the game founders and do this directly with one of the other participants in the metaverse who's able to sort of do the technical minting of the nfts and also the distribution of the nfts because in our case um we don't nfts are not so much for sale although they do have i mean they are sold on the secondary markets and they achieve pretty good values on the secondary markets but um but in the first instance the way that nfts are distributed into the into our metaverse is as gaming rewards and so it's a great platform for artists to get this massive audience of millions of users is for them to you know create an alien world series get

someone to help them to do the minting and the distribution and then suddenly they've got this massive audience of people who've received as as mining rewards their nft um i think so it's really great to think outside of um this kind of idea of like creating nfts for sale because nfts can also just be a way to reach an audience especially within an application in which nfts are used like gaming applications are perfect for that thank you um all right then the last questions and then i'll let you go because i start seeing that you guys are getting a bit nc for maybe to go to the end to the other um on which blockchain are we going to see most nfts i think maybe this is the most important question is

it going to be on ethereum is it going to be multi-chain how do you see that a few a few years down the road um yeah that that is a big question and a question a lot of our clients ask um obviously ethereum still has the biggest community so when our clients want to you know impact as many people as possible and really get that community engagement they go for ethereum but the gas fees are not to be ignored so we have found that our clients that have higher ticket items go for ethereum because then you know uh 40 to 100 of gas is okay if you're paying a couple thousand but then our our clients that are you know doing nfts for a hundred a couple hundred

bucks as their range they typically are have been going to side chains so we've seen polygons do a lot of work towards nfts and and sponsoring nft marketplaces and sponsoring things in the nft ecosystem there's other side chains we see immutable x coming up there are solana is is is a strong one right now it is still very much up in the air um ethereum if it doesn't figure out its gas prices i could see that not winning i mean not only in the nft space just in general um but it is it is a big pro con thing that everybody goes through that we have seen thank you so one of the things that was quite key to our rapid growth was the fact that we

constructed ourselves early on on two chains and then three chains so our token is on ethereum wax and bsc we have gaming logic and nfts on wax and now gaming logic and nfts on bsc and you can teleport so you can transfer the token from being on um ethereum wax and nftc and and uh bse so you can you can there's interoperability built in that we had to build from you know the ground up and that was actually building that interoperability and those technical bridges is um pretty significant because it means that for starters you can reach a larger audience so of course there's a larger audience on ethereum right now but there's pretty limited functionality

from our perspective we're building gaming logic so actual gaming actions that are happening on chain we find that wax is a really great chain to do that with it runs eosio which is a smart contract language and you can so the nfts on wax actually have attributes within the nft itself that aren't referencing an ipfs hash right so they're actually there and when the smart contracts perceive that nft they understand the attributes right so like attack or defensive attributes or um for mining like time between mines the nft lux so the chance of getting an nft when you mine or the power for trillium mining that's all encoded in the nft

itself um and one of the interesting things about that actually is that any smart contracts can be created that perceive those attributes not just ours right so we as the game founders created those nfts for the in the first place and also created the gaming logic that would kind of naturally plug into them but all they really are are nfts with attributes right that anybody else can create smart contracts and say okay i see that it has an attribute of seven in this signifier and an attribute of a g with in that letter and then they can build business logic or gaming logic or any logic that uses those attributes it's worth considering you know the utility of the nfts and then which chain supports smart contract language that

will support that and then considering community and where you know the users are and what that led us to the conclusion of was that we needed to be on as many chains as we could but for them to be able to speak to each other and be interoperable and one of the things that's really interesting is that we can see through our user numbers and how users are teleporting the token between the chains where activity is so just this week we announced the opening of our gaming logic on the binance smart chain it's called missions um and instantly we began to see a huge amount of activity on that chain and bsc also started to notice that um but also we saw that people were teleporting trillion to bsc right because they wanted it needed to be there so they were earning it on wax

in our mining game teleporting it to bsc to then using the missions game on bsc so it's really great you can see user activity you can see why users are wanting to transport their tokens to different places nft bridges are not yet available between the different chains but they're very close to being available in the same way as our fungible token bridge is available and it doesn't stop there i mean you know there's lots of other non-blockchain games that are still quite decentralized like minecraft for example where when you can credentialize a user as having an identity on your native blockchain in our case wax and also having an identity in that gaming environment like minecraft for example then you can actually have them performing an action

in minecraft and earning trillium and we have now built that bridge as well so yeah an open blockchain construction super super powerful for building traction users functionality longevity you know that outlives just a sort of aesthetic value and and also in creating a kind of legacy value right so as i mentioned we create nfts that have certain attributes but those attributes then live on just like you know i might buy a shovel at the store and that shovel for me could be something that i built that i dig a hole with but for someone else might be a tool that they use in another way that's what an nft is when it has attributes it's just something that can be read by smart contracts in lots of ways in future and that builds some legacy and

some longevity and so consider that when you're considering your chain construction okay okay so if some developers are in the room they don't know what they're gonna do next and maybe building nft bridges is a good a good business idea for you guys um so we don't have that much time left any comment on which chains we're gonna see uh or do you agree with the multi-chain future multi-chain future absolutely all right thank you very much guys for participating for your attention thank you [Applause] thank you