The Next Evolution of Crypto App Experiences with Lagrange

Transcript

so you guys are basically like best friends we're like VC Eskimo Bros that's actually really interesting nobody's done that in crypto there's a lot of ZK magic going on there there is in the back end there's a lot who knows about the rods knows everyone knows about the rods how do welcome to Igan lay unlocked an interactive educational Journey Through the Igan lay ecosystem created by technical Founders and builders for the entire crypto Community a special thank you to our partners allir polymer authentic skate and lrange for helping to make this happen our goal is to raise the collective knowledge of the Igan Lair ABS ecosystem and unpack the technical designs of the top teams

in space welcome to Igan lay unlocked yo welcome back to the rollup here with isma Gad and Luca uh welcome in Isel thanks for having me it's good to be here so you guys were your first round was led by one KX so it was yours and then now Founders fun followup y so you guys are basically like best friends we're like VC Eskimo Bros yes um is a what better way to start than what Luca was interested which is your collaboration with isuki recently um you were talking about I mean it it it came out for their anime chain um obviously you've been on the Pod before so you know we can we can

give you the introduction as the Jack smart ZK guy but I mean let's just get right into it how does your ZK Cod processor help teams like isuki and what's the kind of collab day yeah so our ZK co-processor is a way for onchain applications to access more data it lets you build things on chain that you couldn't build a month ago two months ago and so as part of a new launch for version of our co-processor we've been working very closely with the isuki team what we call Odyssey which is an interactive digital experience to allow uh isuki community members to kind of experience what it is to interact with the Zuki data in a new way and we think that this type of Paradigm is going to extend very soon into the types of applications that members of popular

nft communities such as isuki or such as pugy have the opportunity to kind of experience on chain and build on top of and so as part of that announcement we had a very interesting UI and kind of digital exploration of what we thought of as this universe of onchain data surrounding isuki um and we expect to have a bunch of interesting stuff coming on top of that soon very cool and so when you say this kind of universal experience that allows people to have or you know nft holders to do certain things with this data could you give us a bit of like like a practical example of like why what that is and kind of what what why it's not possible like pre using a co-processor yeah so let me make this really concrete so G had a great

tweet yeah um a few weeks ago he has a lot of those by the way he does he does great Twitter game about active reward distribution I think it might be a term you coin I don't know yeah a it's a old time well what's old is new so he made it new but so what made it great and what I liked about that tweet was this idea that onchain daps can distribute rewards iteratively and continuously to users in terms of not just waiting after for example a bunch of points have accumulated do some airdrop let's say every 6 months 12th months but this idea that every single time a user interacts with something they get closer and closer to a reward I mean pudgy you guys

had the The Collector program for the Thousand day soulbound token I think that's a fantastic example of an active reward distribution and we like to think of kind of co-processors as a way to to iterate on the stuff and to to let you build stuff on chain that really kind of use data gotcha cool so so the kind of air onetime airdrop method isn't as extensive and useful as kind of this way to really build a system that creates users that come back and that creates a way for people to continuously kind of get like a dopamine hit almost it's like you're just constantly being rewarded for actively using this exactly every time you use the app it's aware of your usage yeah it can access your previous usage and it can incentivize you in cool

ways discounts cashback incentives all of this stuff that we're used to in web 2 but now you can do it on chain and web 3 gotcha so Luka how do you see kind of discounts cashbacks these these kind of like coupons how do you see that applicable something like abstract change well dude I want to be the consumer guy so all of a sudden like this guy's speaking my language actually super thankful for you breaking it down the way that you broke it down it just felt like it really clicked this time around so I appreciate that I mean ultimately you know that's the backbone of consumer and the thing is is a lot of people today and I think kind of what he's addressing is actually if you take a maybe a deeper dive or frame it in a different way it's actually like super

imp F because when you think about consumer being the final frontier which I think we'd probably all agree like that's where we have to go incentives today in crypto have been so broken and in reality in the real world there are tons of incentives like there's you know AMX you know points cash back things like that and I think he really enables the the door opening for I think this new set of incentives which I think are like more of the cherry on top and are more akin to what we're seeing in the real world rather than these like totally discombobulated you know weighted in One Direction incentives that because you don't have that data you can't really you know Define appropriately so I actually appreciate that breakdown I totally clicked for me while you were speaking so we're definitely going to do something together awesome excited for it I'm

excited for it too it takes me back to like like the defi summer days of you know you put two tokens into a deex and you get cant stream yeah totally it was so so fun um like I remember like uh over the last two years I've tried every reward program and I like the points program was the most boring part yeah because like uh um in 2020 in 2021 maybe like there's like active composability you had like there's a there's a he Farm sorry there's a swap then there's the Yi power on top of it then there's a aggregator there's a auto compounder then there's an aggregator which which uh combines the these two things with like lending and borrowing like does these like gamifying things um which is like really lacking right now and like co-processors can like make it really

possible instead of like posting mle Roots like every two weeks every one week uh yeah yeah so Ismail how are you kind of thinking about bringing this to teams like abstract to isuki like when you're speaking to these teams is it is there a particular use case or a particular activation that they're excited about or is is is it kind of like a wide spectrum I think from our standpoint what we really want to do is to have Integrations and Partnerships with teams that kind of meet their Community with what their community's interested in so when we work with certain di protocols you know there's there's aspects of the integration that might be proven you know uh funding rate calculations or or proving you know incentives on top of farming pools

things that might be very core to protocol design but the average user might not be aware that they're experiencing then we talk about something more in consumer you know it's really about understanding kind of how does users in this community interact with that community and how will users in this community interact with execution spaces and chains that are consumer facing um that are built for them to really have this interesting onchain experience on um and so for us it's really about trying to make sure that we kind of understand really what is that substrate for interaction and then trying to build things in that that kind of meet this community where they kind of really want to find these features awesome yeah I mean I think that meeting the community where they are and each specific project kind of

has a specific need right it's like you know Lucas project may need okay we want to incentivize the our community through our portal to do X Y and Z Dex is may be like well I want you know more complex ordering or or different types of kind of user benefits um I kind of want to switch over into how you guys are utilizing igen layer and your AVS um so you guys have some commitments already to secure lrange let's talk about kind of your your resticking commitments and yeah this is going to you know this is in October now so things are changed um I'm just kind of curious on that experience with working as an avvs in IG yeah so lrange uh our Pro network is in

production right now it's been in production for about four months yeah and so it's secured right now by I think about 6 billion in restak uh eth in USD equivalent um currently have about 70 operators and so what our operators and what our uh network does is is really generate proofs in a highly scalable decentralized fashion you know one of the things that we really want to be able to promise to all the teams we work with is that we can have the highest guarantees of liveness and uptime um out of anyone serving proofs in uh in crypto and so because of that we want to deploy our approver across you know some of the best operators in the space secured with incentives that ensure that when they're asked to deliver a proof for an

incentives program for an onchain experience for a D5 protocol Etc they they can do so um in a way that that you can trust that the proof will get there on time that's why we've deployed our Pro Network on top of wagon lay with our co-processor um and yeah it's currently been up for about uh 6 months and delivered about 3 million proofs awesome so when you guys are are working with you know a team like auki eventually maybe abstract what is the lrange business model to kind of turn turn The collaboration into a flywheel of Revenue or a flywheel of kind of a metric which you guys can assess and you know try to grow yeah so from a purely Revenue

standpoint we make money by charging for proofs operators compute proofs and there's a cost that they spend to compute that proof and then in terms of the amount that they remunerated for doing that proof they get some margin on that proportionate to the time value of the of the of the money that they've spent um and so in line with that you know what we really try to do is to find use cases that really make sense as these kind of long-term continued engagements so an incentive program that is core to kind of how a community interacts with with a chain for example is something that we'd love integrating with we can be very flexible in trying to identify what the cost is now and what kind of works with the community where it is and then ideally our cost decrease over time as proving

infrastructure gets faster and faster and then eventually it creates this ideally like mutually creative relationship where where both us and then the partners that we work with are able to kind of have interesting things they deliver and our Network obviously is able to deliver uh Revenue back to our operators for generating these proofs very interesting there's a there's a lot of ZK Magic going on there there is in the back end there's a lot I did a a technical podcast with uh a guy on his most what is his name Shon Tron it's a year ago almost dude a year ago he was he was drawing ZK proofs by hand on a on a PowerPoint it was yeah it was it was a great it was a great it was a classic it was a classic for sure coming back to kind of the potential

collaboration here with abstract if you guys were to kind of draw something up I know that we're just putting you on the spot here but so Luca's got this portal right where we where there's this big distribution and they driving users to to this portal this portal is almost like your like app store it's like your gateway to the chain it's almost like you know you open up your phone and it's it's it's it's the abstract portal um if I if I'm a user coming back to this portal I have specific preferences I have uh behaviors um how can lrange track user Behavior Uh uh further incentivize users in this portal and how could you potentially make uh the abstract chain more powerful uh by using

your co-processor yeah I mean so I can suggest a couple ideas but i' obviously love to hear from Lucas since the vision of abstract chain is is Lucas um but I would say that very broadly you know anytime a user transacts or uses abstract chain there's a transaction there's potentially a receipt and there's maybe a mutation of a storage slot and across all of this we can determine the history of how user interacted what they've done how long they've done it for where they've put liquidity what apps they use use and then from there you know the next time they interact every app they're interacting with can be aware of what they've done this can even permeate into L1 data you know have they held a pudgy do they hold a little pudgy do they hold one of the the pudgy rods a lot of

things he knows about the rods know everyone knows about the rods how do I know about the rods you don't know about the rods what are the rods got to get your pudgy game up do it's equivalent to like if in the world there's like a Mona Lisa or like a van go in crypto there's like a p Rod it's like the S similar equivalence if that makes sense I'll show you what it is it's like complete the line work the the lore it it's beautiful something you hang something yeah it's something you'd hang up in your in your in your office for sure it sounds to me like this is probably like the beginnings of like actually being able to run like an ads manager on chain and things like that seems like you're like kind of the

pickaxe to that Gold Rush am I correct in in assuming that like do you who what's the what what what takes you from like what's the next step to that like flow to that ads manager style process I guess we should probably need like a native Explorer probably there's probably like a couple things missing I'm sure brave could probably like plug in here and you need you need some sort of like tracking which is a problem in web 3 though people don't like Facebook pixels they don't like because wallets aren't people is the problem exactly that's that that's the think you can solve that problem so how do you solve the wallets are not people problem cuz that seems to be like the Crux of everything maybe you have some wait this can be like integrated with what campus Building where you there's like some

sort of like attestation and like you can see on chain that some identity layer yeah totally it's interesting CU wallets aren't people but a lot of users are willing to link certain wallets of theirs if it means that they're going to get some type of onchain reward for doing so yeah really like link their identity yeah they they link number a number of their wallets together if they have for example a number of nfts or a number of in actions they do across these at some point I found that from other protocols we've interacted with they'd be willing to link those if it means discount well I mean it's like do they might not link every single one but they'll link the ones that they're okay people see will it's like on my flight here it's like do you have a United account because if you

do you sign up and you get free Wi-Fi or something yeah you're signing up you're signing up you know what I'm saying so to me it seems like the the lrange pitch is like we're going to build experiences on chain that are similar to like rewards programs or similar to to coupons perks personalization on chain which is what we're kind of missing but you guys are the data to that you're of no interest in making any of those public interfaces like those forward faing consumer interfaces or you do eventually we don't right now we really want to provide the tools to do so partly because when we look at our team's expertise we have very strong expertise in ZK we have very strong expertise in kind of building all these systems we want to work very closely with the teams that have expertise in building the more consumer facing things

on top of these we can always decide where we want to kind of set the abstraction of how much is you know useful for us to build versus how much is useful for partners to kind of independently on top of that but at the core we really want to provide tooling sense yeah I mean it does seem like in crypto still so early with things like streaming payments either even or like just small things that are just so natural to us in the in the real world you know things like coupons and long-term retention and it kind of reminds me of like retargeting ads on Facebook you know where you know somebody opens your ad and hit him again or like an email sequence where you just get retargeted if you abandoned a card or something um so I think there's a lot of ties let's kind of that's actually

very interesting nobody's done that in crypto yeah where the longer you don't interact with an app the more the incentive you receive to re interact with it becomes yeah we know what's the next start we do yes that's right so where you guys at in development is mail and kind of what's coming next as we come to a wrap here yeah so our prover Network's been in production for about 4 months at this point um our ZK coprocessor we had a first version that we launched uh also four months ago and we've since launched a new version that we call V1 that has much more expressive compute much more data can compute over and a much more kind of developer ergonomic experience around that we have a number of iterations planned on top of this new version of our co-processor both kind of core technical stuff to

improve Speed and Performance as well as much more user facing stuff in terms of improving the experience of building on it and then being able to support new types of computation on even larger scale beautiful I'm bullish are you bullish I'm super bullish you've been vocally bullish on on the gr on Twitter for a while dude I'm I'm so bullish I have no bags but I I run the operator well I have bags in both L hunch and Abstract chain here guys I I have bags and I it's same thing like um well is thank you for coming on it's been a pleasure of course very much appreciate yeah you guys having us always cool amazing