Modular March EP 9: Dymension Embraces Modularity with RollApp Deployments

Transcript

welcome to modular March I'm handy this is Robbie and we are the rollup modular March is an educational experience about all things modul [Music] enjoy [Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome back to the modular penguin

modular March episode today with EA from Dimension Yesa it's good to have your back Sir uh just three Penguins building cool [ __ ] definitely I'm excited I'm excited to you know see the rap grow into this great brand but two you know base Penguins so happy to be here and uh happy to be part of the the penguin crew here yeah I mean last time we spoke Dimension was um just on the cff of launching the token and um kind of getting getting out of the gates and I know that we kind of talked about that as being the beginning so maybe you just want to give uh catch us all up as far as kind of all the progress so far and

then we can dive into some more of the nitty-gritty yeah definitely so last time we spoke it was I was think it was pre-launch I guess and uh you know a lot of excitement we launched something that maybe it's important to note that you know we've been building for two years there's a lot of code and once you ship this amount of like code in a lot of complexities you have to do it a little bit gradual so even in the start like we had unexpected things that we didn't know like there's so many moving parts so you have to ship a system in the scope in the size of dimension in a gradual way and this is why we figured okay we have to do it like um like our mayet article like we're going to do the

singularity Point like okay let's make sure that Dimension Hub is stable that liquidity and bridging everything works and it's a big challenge people sometimes think about okay yeah you know where's everything at day one but you obviously there's a lot of moving Parts uh with liquidity that we've done so successfully so it's so happy I'm so happy to see it like everything flowing into Dimension getting all the bridging connections getting the stake Acquired and distributed through the set also very challenging getting governance proposals all of this all this operation is is so you know is so important to the stability of a network um like di mentioned which which uh will provide a lot of settlement properties to other

blockchains so getting this done is very important we're at the end of this um 2D which is the upgrade for permission rapse is coming is in audit right now um and is expected to be here very very very soon uh so I'm super excited about that there's a lot of cool stuff coming in uh eibc which not sure how many know about how cool EBC is and how it's going to affect a lot of the ecosystem um actual roll apps um and fraud proofs which is insane like a lot of people are talking about fraud proof fraud proofs like op stack has been out there you know two years three years and we're um you know we're building fraud

proofs and we're highly um excited about seeing this kind of work in the wild it's still another gradual release but it's uh um it's it's getting shipped uh it's it's getting built and it's real yeah those are other optimistic rollups cannot say the same but refrain from that now let's dive a bit deeper into EC and how that is kind of intertwined with roll apps so from my understanding all the roll apps on Dimension are able to basically interoperate with each other through IBC but now you're kind of mentioning your version of IBC almost or some sort of

extra compatibility so what does EBC mean how does this kind of work how this live yeah yeah sure IBC it stands for escrow IBC so it's a it's a protocol on top of IBC so we we use IBC um as kind of the main I'd say main infrastructure point in dimension we um we look at IBC as as the most credible neutral protocol and kind of the TCP IP of crypto um no token just uh extremely useful battle tested so why aren't we using just regular IBC is the question but um and the the the answer is we're using IBC from The Hub to all the rollups it's IBC

it's just regular IBC and from the rollups to the hub it's something that we call EC and it's a it's a very cool Innovation because it it actually hits like two birds with one stone so the problem with optimistic rollups right is the fraud proof dispute period and the kind of ability or the the assumption is that somebody's running or validating the rollup so what EBC does is uh in essence it's like an intent based bridge where if somebody wants to get out of a rollup he shoots out an an IBC message it gets to the dimension Hub it gets esro and then if somebody wants to pull you out he just sends the funds for you and you get them

on the Hub while he takes the risk so everybody could do that it's an open market it's basically a market for future receivables if you want to think about it that way and you get you know instant withdrawals and you get somebody who needs to verify the rollup to reduce the risk to zero so Andy imagine that you know Rob Robbie's on a rollup he wants to withdraw is 100 usdc you're running the rollup node you know the rollup is fine you're gonna send the 100 usdc uh to Robbie on the Hub and you're gonna get Robbie's IBC delay transaction um after the fraud dispute period does that make sense

yeah it does and is it also a sday period or not yes but but you you're not you're not gonna you're not going to notice it like it is it is a s-day period but you're not users are not going to notice it it's not we are in the business of making the modular stack you know working just in terms of ux the best possible way we're abstracting everything Dimension is all about creating this experience where you don't even have to know all these technicals but essentially what happens with dibc is either the sequencer or a market maker who knows that the rollup is safe is going to pull you out because he's going to make a small fee out of it and from that you're gonna get you know the best ux you're gonna get all the rollups

verified and you're gonna get like the speed and capabilities that like like a rollup has so you basically you really you know you're really creating a system that is super scalable um so for example you can do ZK we will in the future have like ZK capabilities you could choose but essentially an optimistic rollup in terms of performance is just way more performance so once you have somebody verifying it and you don't have any fraud proof time it's the best like it's one of the best architectures that I can think of is This similar to the incent in intent Centric bridging solutions that are out there now where a market

maker will fill someone on the destination chain and then okay so they're essentially providing that fast path right where the canonical way is traditional IBC and that's kind of like the slow but very very secure path um and in order for the to to get users the best experience we have this EI IC to provide a fast path give users their funds quickly and then these fillers are repaid they take the slow path and they make a a fee out of it exactly perfect and the the slow PA that they're taking is actually IBC what you're doing is you're basically selling them your delayed IBC for getting the liquidity immediately you're not even

you know it's not even um it's not even taking a risk for you you're getting it immediately yeah and I I think we've seen that like this is the solution that users want for interop it provides it provides Bridge transactions I've seen less than a second before in some of these intent Centric Solutions so to to hear that that is the interrupt solution for raps on Dimension I I I think that's extremely positive now like could you kind of tell us like what is the landscape for roll apps on Dimension now um you know what kind of like what's coming up next uh mainnet launched maybe two weeks ago um

and uh now it seems like there's like a grants program that's happening on Dimension and there's a ton of things that I imagine are going to be coming into the fold pretty pretty soon um like what are some of the technical innovations or use cases or apps that are coming to Dimension that aren't really possible anywhere else yeah definitely so I'm I'm you know I'm super excited about the funnel that we buil in dimension like uh uh contrary to like other Echo systems or like what I want to focus on in terms of Dimension is that dimension provides liquidity and users F the rollup so this is kind of the the

package that we want to we want to showcase here I mention is kind of this blockchain marketplace where you come with your own uh blockchain or your own app and we connect you to users and liquidity and what's what's important about that we also expose uh these roll out Builders to to all these you know dime stakers and to the community and help them with everything like everything from A to Z they're getting all the support and we're doing this funnel uh now is kind of the first time so we're trying to make it like as perfect as possible for it to be like a Mean Machine of like okay you're constantly going to get these new roll apps new Innovations like we're seeing with Nim um you know there's there's a lot of cool stuff coming up I don't want to spoil it but there's like a there's

like this very nice funnel of gradually building in rollups into the dimension ecosystem until we get this uh um very mature um rollup environment and then we just pull the plug and say guys everything is permissionless we're not governance is not going to interfere and this is what makes that mention you know kind of mindblowing in terms of how it scales exponentially without no like interference with governance or anything like that um and this is why I'm so like bullish about like the i' say the underlying um aspects of Dimension where we we just say like human Ingenuity is is going to is going to make sure that

you we're going to see a lot of cool stuff people by Nature when you give them the capability to connect to liquidity and users and build their own chain um that's something that's pretty incredible like you don't have that um I'd say any other place if you're you're deploying a rollup on ethereum you're deploying a rollup on ethereum you don't get like the same Community um I'd say same Community push that Dimension brings to the table um yeah in terms of in terms of like use cases and and very cool stuff that are coming I really recommend people to to look into Nim like Nim is doing something that's gonna is gonna you know twist a lot of heads and uh I'm I'm super super curious to

see how this uh turns out there's also Rivals there's a lot of AI use cases coming into Dimension um I'm a big fan of having fun and uh playing around with the with games and like my Moto is for for Dimension ux is deposit play withdraw and uh yeah very curious to see where all of this is is going yeah and I think the the cool part about Nim specifically is these kind of AI agents being able to interoperate amongst all these different kind of I guess roll apps as well and that's enabled through this eibc and this kind of intense based interoperability mechanism which I think is super cool yeah for EBC actually you know I I even I didn't even know like it's intent

based I had like we had in the solution for we had this problem for a long time like a year ago even more like I'd say like maybe 16 months ago I was been I always kept thinking okay how do we you know get through the the the issue of people waiting it's not nobody's gonna wait nobody is waiting in technology technology always moves forward so we have to create this solution and then when we came up with EBC before I know I didn't even know what intent means like intent is kind of a new word and now that we have these intent based Bridges I understand that okay this is it so um so it's interesting to see you know how you get into a problem you create a solution for it and there's like all these different variations for it

already yeah and and I think the this idea for uh for the community is like okay I I get to stake my my dime or my dim and then I get access to these different applications whether it be through like token distributions or just access from the from from the base and and kind of for us it ends up making it a much easier ecosystem to interact with um which which is ultimately kind of the end goal when when these rollups are you know talking to the team about launching and things what kind of questions are are they asking about the users about the community about the stakers about um liquidity and kind of how are you

helping to facilitate more indepth uh you know the successful launch of rooll apps on dim because again from my perspective the success of of Dimension is ultimately how many really damn good applications we can build on top of it um yeah yeah that's true that's true um so obviously you know this is new to us as well taking a rollup from A to Z is something that we want to be the best at and I'd say this like we deployed a chain right we we it's hard we did this like on TCH test net we did this on second we did this for like a year so we came to the understanding of how you

need to do these things not just on a technical level but also from a community level also from like a I'd say uh a liquidity level what's the infrastructure that's needed RPC endpoints clock explorers connections with exchanges bridging all of that it takes a lot of Ops and it takes a lot of experience and now that we've done that for quite a while we try to get the best like the best pinpoints that we learned and we try to commoditize it and help like everybody who wants to have their own chain their own ecosystem their own like mini ecosystem within Dimension with their block Explorer with their

chain um and we we try to perfect it and this is I think what you know what contributed to our success on on on test net is we scaled it we scal the operational overhead that it takes to deploy a chain and we brought it into something that's very easy very fun and very very exciting for people to to interact with we're trying to do the same thing right right now on mainnet and uh yeah we're looking forward to to to being good at that as well and to to bring a lot of projects I think we've gone almost this entire conversation without saying the word modular um so I want to talk about the modularity of of dimension and there's a really cool article that

you guys put out there kind of describing the the transformation from a singularity from from that single point to 2D 3D and then 4D can you talk us through that that progression you guys you know went through the singularity the the Genesis of Dimension now we're in this draft phase for 2D permissioned rollups could you could you talk us through what happens from 2D to 3D and then 3 to 4D yeah sure I'm uh I think a lot you know of Dimension is is coming together so nicely even like with like envisioning like okay what is the singularity point it's it's like the

Genesis point it's the start it's somewhere stable that you start with and then you add another dimension and what happens when you add another dimension there's there's more there's more things that you wna you want to make sure that are being built correctly and this is what the 2D phase is uh so upgrading the cbase to 2D um you know this is this is real money this is security this is a lot of code auditing that we're doing uh to make sure that everything is stable and safe and we don't want to you know go from a point where we have one L1 blockchain which is a challenge by itself to having you know 10,000 chains that we're securing it's a gradual process and 2D is a part of it um so I I'd say that's that's kind of up right

now but what's interesting is the 2D to the 3D uh phase where you know you're actually G to have fraud proofs in the wild um people are going to deploy rollups um permissionless Le with an enshrined Bridge um into the CMOS ecosystem enabling IBC connection to the entire IBC Network and all of this is going to just work permissionless it's going to it's going to imitate like a server coming into the internet you know if you think about the internet like 30 years ago 40 years ago when it all started you know you we hope to see that you know it's going to grow the very organically um and very exponentially um

with our with our architecture um I'd say the difference between 3D and 4D is is a lot of surprises that we have in mind of how we create this circular economy and how we create um an ecosystem that is very sustainable um but there's there's lots to come and you know I we haven't spoken we didn't say modular one time but the future is modular and and and you know we're going to we're going to Showcase that modular also means that the ux improvements are going to reach like every user and every Builder yeah and I think that like what we're getting at here is that this this modu ecosystem is going to expand and dimensions playing a part of it with your kind of road map going from where

you are with kind of these permissioned deployments all the way to just kind of anybody can come in and do things in a very streamlined fashion and I think outside of Dimension there's going to be a big expansion of of modular tooling infrastructure coming alive I'm curious if you guys are able to collaborate or interoperate with some of the other modular Stacks coming out or you know Partners whether it be like uh rpcs like like lavvo or like interoperability protocols like hyper Union or some of these alternative VM rollups if there's like I'm just generally curious what your perception is on how you plan to either compete or collaborate with these all these different projects launching

in the next six months I think the this modular expansion is really about to unfold and so I'm curious how you see it playing out and where that Dimension kind of fits and competes and collaborates yeah I think like being modular is actually you know the the center of it of it all so being mod means that you focus and you build the best component that you can and you integrate other modular systems to create the best solution and this is this is the you know this is what modular means in essence um with that said you don't have to integrate you don't have to partner up with everybody if it doesn't really

make sense for you right you want to make sure that you are capable that you know others you know other builders or other infrastructure providers could integrate Dimension or could integrate any any other modular solution um so we can cooperate and have this diverse or I'd say um you know bigger Choice kind of Stack where like on like front end Technologies and back end Technologies you can you can shift them and you can you can play around with them this is the goal but with that said like you can't for example if we're doing IBC it doesn't make for it doesn't make sense for us to integrate a lot of like bridging providers right we believe that IBC is like the core bridging aspect of Dimension so it doesn't make sense for

us to to to cooperate like in terms of getting other bridging providers in terms of LPC yeah lava makes a lot of sense lava is very interesting um in terms of Das getting as much dasas as possible is great uh and there's other kind of Creative Solutions that are coming up and you know we're very much thrilled to cooperate with everybody in the modular ecosystem but it needs to be with a purpose that actually benefits the user this is something that is super important for me like we are in this to create an abstraction and to create the best experience for users users for for all they care they Deposit they just have the great experience as if they're on a web to uh game or or website or financial application and then they

could safely withdraw their money or the value to um to their wallet yep and I think go ahead yes sorry so uh will rollups so the rollups that are launching now they're going to settle their data to Dimension but you're saying that that uh that you know that future rollups or even the ones now could could switch to Celestia veale near I Etc like those roll apps will be able to settle to a modular da layer so the way that that di mentioned architecture works is a rollup can choose where they want to post data right it's just like choosing a database for example I know obviously da is not

equivalent to data storage but just for the purpose of explaining it um you know easily you're building a web application you need a place to store data you need a place that calculates or you know act as a server and you need a place to for users to interact with your app um so on Dimension architecture um raps Builders can choose where they want to post data um so that's that's very important so we can have Celestia for example we have could have other interchange providers um and then they could choose which VM they want to use for example they want evm they want wasm in the future svm maybe fuel there's a lot of providers working on the execution um Innovations so this is where kind of the modularity

hits that you can choose each part of the stack according to what fits you and according to what fits your use case the best and this is why I believe that like modular is not is not the question of you know if it's going to happen it's just a question of when it's going to be fully um fully mature amazing I think we're we're seeing it play out in real time um with with modularity in general we're seeing these Solutions start to get built and and the connectivity to these infrastructures start to get built on Dimension specifically we're starting to see that upgrade from 1D to 2D obviously calls for some sort of interop even more

so from 2D to 3D when Dimension goes permissionless I want to talk a a little bit and I realized we're we're running tight on time so um could you just kind of take us through like what the the liquidity looks like um Dimensions uh unique uh uh design here allows for apps roll apps to get the this liquidity in this user base from the dimension Hub specifically so like for the build out there listening to this video uh they're they're you know looking at Dimension they they see this abundant liquidity in users that are available for building on Dimension what is like the The Game Theory what is the incentive mechanism

designed for Builders to build these roll apps on Dimension that's a amazing question because I feel like you have to have like every startup has to stimulate growth and provide the capabilities so you know what we're doing is first of all we're giving the ability for Builders to have you know to have users to have liquidity you're building an app if you're just building out there it's very hard to to connect to users it's very hard to get there so a good example would be on Amazon right you're selling shoes somebody you know searches for shoes it gets to Amazon it gets to your shop and he can buy it and Amazon takes care of shipping it take it takes care

of all the logistics but if you're just building a website on the Internet it's very to reach you and this is what that mention brings to the table it just it gives you this a toz kind of uh experience where if you're building a blockchain application you're getting your infrastructure you're getting access to the users and you're getting access to liquidity getting back to your question Robbie is how do we incentivize how do we do that so first of all liquidity is is key like money settlement is where money lives and you want to be close to that you wanna you want to have the ability for all this money to to come into your roll app and to you know to use your services this is something that's very important uh for us and what we do is we in the 3D phase

um you're G to get incentives for bringing tvl to your rollup this is something that I believe is going to be crucial because if your rollup is succeeding right you're attracting Capital you need more Capital to grow and dimension as a protocol has this budget to subsidize these rollups and to bring that liquidity into the rollups and to to reward them and this is a flywheel effect on top of that the dimension um I'd say the dimension application as well as the blockchain we enable all these roll apps or just anybody actually to incentivize the pairs so if you go right now to portal. dimension. XYZ get into any pair right any any pool you can

say you know what I'm incentivizing the dime stride pool why I don't know want to incentivize it maybe it's my token and I want to get it distributed to these LPS maybe it doesn't matter the point is we're giving good Tools in good ways for rap developers first of all to attract liquidity to their native token if they wish to to do that uh Second of all to get attention um and and obviously to to get the capability of actually moving the liquidity of their token or other tokens like usdc or valuable assets to their roll app um and this is something I think that is very unique to Dimension

like uh the the aggregation layer I know that polygon is also doing something like this that they call it the a layer I I find it very similar to Dimension to be honest um but Dimension does this kind of on the L1 native uh layer with the enshrined amm and with the enshrined rollup Bridge um under one one chain yeah it almost reminds me of like bar chain proof of liquidity in a sense um different models but kind of a uh an idea around a permissionless liquidity and B just kind of always having deep books for for users on chain um you know which I think is crucially important so youa any kind of closing thoughts um as

we as we wrap up here um I'd say this um the more we go forward in mentioned the more um you know I feel that we're getting closer to a to a product that is is built for users and it's built for Builders um both at the same time um we want to be pragmatic we want to to allow people to build things that people like and to have the best experience and this is why we're focused on building and this is why we're doing what we're doing um we're not building for the tech we're building for the users we're building the tech for the product and users and I'm excited to see um a lot of cool

stuff coming up which uh you know you're going to see it very very soon a lot of surprises a lot of uh interesting aspects and a lot of things to to wait awesome man appreciate it and uh Penguins just keep building we are the uh the Builder pfp that's it definitely appreciate the time guys always a pleasure you know um I'm waiting for the for the next next one that we're doing when uh 2D becomes uh closer to 3D and we'll do we'll keep on doing this every upgrade sounds great