Openvino: tokenization, transparency, and traceability

Transcript

a really cool after-party scheduled but since I'm not gonna make it because as soon as I finish I'm getting in a cab going to the airport and flying to Argentina I already started the party without you but when at the end there might be some surprises with wine so just wait and see so here to talk about open B no I'll tell you about the project and play with some some toys that we have here so my name is Mike Barrow and I purchased a piece of land in 2003 in mendoza argentina to plant a

vineyard and to start to make some organic wine and you say well what does this have to do with blockchain or SCC but actually you'll see that my background is NIT working in the data center space in the 90s and the 2000s and still today but I decided to get in this completely different area out of my league which was making organic wine in Argentina so how difficult could that be and very quickly because I have no idea what I'm doing at that time it becomes apparent a lot of different issues and this massive learning curve about making

wine about selling wine about growing grapes oh the three different aspects of this business that I think you'll see actually are really interesting real world applications for a lot of the tools and developments and things that we're seeing here at the conference so so I think this is a good real-world example for crypto currency for crypto assets for blockchain and basically it revolves around three different issues that as I'm starting to take my first bottles into the market basically going from India from Argentina to India

to Brazil coming to Europe and pouring my first bottles and thinking okay this is gonna be fun people are gonna buy this very easily and with the concept that the better their your warrant is the better your product is the more expensive it is the better price you're going to get well wine is actually a very interesting product and I say it is the best metaphor that we have for crypto assets or crypto currency and the reason is that it's the best metaphor for crypto asset is because a bottle of wine in itself has a very elastic price you can have a two euro wine and you can have a twenty thousand euro wine and the

price depends on a whole number of factors quality is certainly one of them but the story behind it the scarcity the rarity the reviews the comments the the feedback on point systems and prizes and influencers and all these other things and yet the cost of producing a twenty thousand euro one or two euro one is actually not that that different right so really a bottle of wine is emblematic of this object that has no intrinsic value on its own it's a piece of glass but that represents a shared value this

shared fictitious value much like via does right so that's the the first thing when I started making one the first vintage I had was 2007 one of the questions is well what's the price of your wine and how do you justify that right in some places it would be too expensive for their shops in some places it was too inexpensive they said we only deal with wines in a certain category so I was kind of at a loss to how to set the value valuation for the product the second question that really comes up a lot also is I found myself doing presentations to wine people to wine shops to restaurant owners to drinkers and telling them the story said look I

make an organic product and the one is called MTB Mike tango Bravo it's Malbec Petit Verdot Cabernet Sauvignon it's giving them this description of the product and saying you know we only pick 60 50 60 percent of the grapes the rest we throw on the ground we do organic we're Fairtrade we treat everybody well we try to do put a lot of love into this product and then I thought well who doesn't say that who doesn't say some version of that what winery doesn't give you this story about how they are so perfect at doing things and yet there's a lot of lies in the marketing behind products like wine and like every product but especially wine

and one of the reasons that there is this this huge gap between authenticity what actually happens in the vineyard and in a winery and what wineries sell to customers has to do a little bit about the mythology that they created in people's minds so if you are a brewer like a big you know Heineken Stella Artois any of these brands and you say you know we did 20 million litres this week we're number one in Europe and the region and that those are really powerful selling points to be big the bigger the better right but in the wine business to say we did fifty million

bottles last year is detrimental to a brand because that's you're not thinking about an industrial process in wines and bigger wineries through necessity have this industrial process now there's nothing wrong with what they're doing but the fact that they're they don't tell that story they tell the you know the family the from the 1860's that planted these grapes and are very meticulous about taking care of it and that's has absolutely nothing to do with reality so the point I'm getting at here is that there is a value for small producers that actually are doing what we imagined when we think of this locally grown very artisanal process if we have a way to communicate

the authenticity of our claims right if we are completely transparent or bill extreme transparency yet we have some mechanism non-repudiation to to show these claims and share them with our customers there's a second element that has a lot to do with certifications so today there's organic certifications there's biodynamic certifications there's Fairtrade there's a thousand different stickers that you can put on the back of your bottle all of them cost money cost quite a bit for the certifiers to give you their their stamp of approval and yet they're also very easy to fake right so next week I have my organic certifier coming they come

once a year they sit down and they say have a coffee or MOT their glass of wine or something they say okay Mike did you spray any pesticides in the vineyard this year right no okay share is a printout of the log of work log that you did last year make sure that your practices are up to snuff right it's something that I probably scrap together the night before if I didn't have it all ordered right okay now show us a receipt of stuff that you bought that you use in the vineyard that doesn't include anything that it's not allowed right so obviously you wouldn't show anything prohibited and they say okay fine pay us and you get another

years of certification that's how organic certification works right and but that is so far from what people imagine of an inspector coming on surprised and taking leaves and dirt samples and and doing all this chemistry to say AHA you're using little sod or using some of these you know things that we don't want to have in our food so it's extremely easy to treat to cheat and I think well if I'm producing all this data every day can't I just make a hash of this information or write directly to blockchain and say here's all of my information I can produce ten thousand data points a day rather than

your one annual visit to say which I could easily lie about and mine do and other wineries do because it's easy to fake and say no I'm actually organic but I'm proving it so there's a transparency element and an honorably d--ation element that's really interesting I think the third thing so that's the question of price question of transparency but the third question has to do with traceability now there's a lot of talk about how to use blockchain for traceability in the supply chain and shipping and all these other things I'm not really focused on that my interest is you know a bottle of wine leaves the

winery case of wine in a pallet and it goes somewhere and I might know that those water bottles are going to monocyte is these are going to Barcelona and those are going to Bombay but I don't know who's drinking them and I don't know what they think about it and I don't know what and conditions they're drinking it are they drinking it alone are they at a party are they having a good time are they drinking with food what are they eating I mean there's just a thousand thoughts that come into your mind when you've put all this effort into it and say well somebody's drinking yeah I hope they enjoy it I think well there must be some way that we could get to the person's mind to the thoughts that occur afterwards by contacting them

and asking them questions so that's kind of a in traceability what I like to call vine wine dine mind right going from the vines to the wine to the table to people's thoughts so those are the three questions as I start this on this journey winemaking process and completely naive about this whole thing and of course this overlaps with the the journey that we're seeing here in blockchain and in the timespan at least and so they say the well there's a lot of really interesting tools that could be applied to these specific problems so for the transparency part basically what

we do is for different data sources so the first is sensors sensors first in the vineyard and we're constantly looking at what sensors will put into the winery in different places but basically we have a set of IOT sensors that are called VIN do we know this is an invention from California friend in California and he's created this VIN do we know boards which basically it's an Arduino with some humidity sensors a solar panel battery low rock configuration for radio that that test that measures soil humidity and we do that two meters underground one meter half a meter and surface so

Mendoza in Argentina is a desert and so water use is very important right so if I'm water irrigating I want to know how far down this water is percolating to the roots and that's going to have an impact on the quality of the wine and to that we add weather sensors you know wind direction wind speed sunlight temperature relative pressure all of these different things collect them in the sensors and publish this data on the web but previous to that we've created some smart contracts that basically write the data directly to a smart contract on the side chain

now what's the point of using this for weather data is that really important to use a blockchain no but if my objective here starting this year is to say I'm not paying any more for organic certification I want to have all this sort of this data available and so I can say look I'm following all the norms for organic and here's the data which I couldn't have manipulated afterwards so that's the the beginning with the IOT sensors and data for the environment and you can add things like pH sensors acidity co2 sensors and the winery temperature or lots of other things the second element is the work log that we

tecora and this is basically just collecting and category categorizing what is the work that goes in to the vineyard every day and into the winery into the business so we want to be able to say today on Thursday we are coloring or pruning or harvesting or whatever it is we're doing for in Malbec from the rose 36 to 52 and have a way to describe this process to as a didactic approach so that our consumers or anybody else could say okay this is actually what goes into the day to day making of these grapes and this one and create a sort of run book of operations

and measure how much of the human effort goes into it right we want to be able to say to somebody this bottle of wine had X number of hours doing these types of tasks X hours doing this this is how much human effort and sweat went into making this the third element and maybe the most important one is the business aspect and this is taking our accounting data from a open source ERP platform called open Bravo and being able to publish this and saying this is how much it cost us for the glass for the bottle for the label for the cork for taxes for salaries everything that went into it shipping marketing and all these other

aspects and so then we can also share how much we've received from different markets and basically be completely naked in front of the world and say this is how the actual business works now that might seem counterintuitive to a lot of people to share your secrets but if your are medium-sized or a large sized enterprise your secrets are actually worth something potentially like how much they manage to leverage the price of the bottle or make a deal with the Box manufacturer or whatever I'm a small producer none of my data is interesting to anybody from a secretive point of view like I know already that I'm paying the highest price for all of

the products that I buy based on the volume and so I can how however decent and that they can't do which is share this information with the world with the customers and say here's what goes into a bottle of wine you know at most if I'm paying 15 pesos for a box mind others ox manufacturer go well it's you're paying too much but I'll do it for fourteen right why not so there's a real I think we underestimate the value of the transparency that we talk about so much especially when you're talking about blockchain well how can we actually monetize that if you're a company and use this as part of your communications

with your customers so there is the data this is how much we paid so if you add those up and add images 360-degree cameras during time lapse and publish these directly to a side chain do a hash of this data points then I can say look I'm organic I'm fair trade whatever certification I want to claim to have as long as I'm following it and my reputation is based on that this is the extreme transparency that we look at taking a traditional company traditional winery and turning it into an open-source winery so that's the first question of transparency telling the truth the second question has to do with the valuation of the product and so what

we've done here is not something terribly complex from a technical aspect but it is a complex from a business aspect and how it works is we harvest the grapes so in Argentina being in South America we harvest into March early April like I said I'm flying back tonight I think this year we'll probably harvest like the 1st of April for a second third in those days harvest the grapes take them in the winery form integrates do all the processes to turn grape juice into a lovely alcoholic liquid and then we basically have wine but that wine needs to sit for at least three years

before it's nice enough to drink right however by the sixth of May we know how much wine is in that particular vintage and so based on that we can do an ICO let's call it that of ERC 20 tokens which are equivalent to the number of bottles and put them out for sale based initially at cost price so we've already done this 2 years this will be our third year and 2018 we did the first wine back crypto asset essentially we calculated that we're gonna have 16384 bottles

right 2 to the 14th and we issued a 16384 ERC 20 tokens called MTB after the name of the wine 18 MTB 18 is the token so we run the ICO from the 6th of May to the 25th of July every year and after that we go on to the exchange now initially we were working with a centralized exchange but just very recently and actually this is something that we're presenting here today we did a fork of unis ox which is the front end for unis that they did to to

showcase how you could take a specific product like sucks right it's a unisza other ones from orchid downstairs so how you could take sock of something like you know socks for kit and so we have vini swap which is our open V node exchange and so now you can go onto these exchange and buy for a ridiculously low price the tokens that correspond to these two vintages at 2018 and 2019 on the 25th of July while the 22 the MTB 20 token and like that every year the idea here is not to create a $10,000 wine or even a thousand dollar

wine the idea here is to allow the marketplace to define the value of the valuation of the token and therefore the valuation of the wine and what's really interesting here for it's not already obvious is that because it's backed by a delicious elixir this wine there's going to be a floor and there's going to be a ceiling for the token right so the token can tank tomorrow but it's not going to get to one sense because our traditional buyers importers distributors restaurants shops that we're already selling to are gonna have to buy like everybody else do tokenization right so if the price of ether goes down or people go and sell

off their tokens and it drops down all I have to do is talk to my importer in Brazil and say hey you know you can get the one for $0.50 let's say or let's see the corollary now it's $500 a token well you say listen I've tried Mike's wine I think it's good but I don't think it's worth five hundred dollars or put the figure you want to put right that's what we're trying to do is when I want to be able to get to the point where the variability of the price depends on the phase and the life cycle of wine it shouldn't cost the same the day its fermented to the day it's drinkable to the day it's at its peak to the day

there's a scarce anumber of bottles or maybe there's been some bad press or good press or whatever right let's let that float and use a decentralized exchange or exchanges to set that price but I want to get to the point where if somebody asked me what's the price of your wine I said I don't know let's look up online and see what it is right so we do this I see oh we once try to sell 75% of the tokens at least or at the most I should say we need to keep 25% or so in case you know a pallet falls over in the cold storage and breaks or I drink too much at home or whatever I need to be able to replace

these burn these tokens for myself no the last stage is once the wines available basically through our e-commerce site the only currency that we're going to accept is these tokens that you had to get on the secondary market and we'll do the fulfillment and at that point we'll actually say okay you give us a token we'll give you the bottle of wine where is this wine going oh it's going to blow no sight is or it's going to Paris or it's going to Delhi at this point I have to charge you the shipping and handling for this which introduces a really unique element here because because I don't know where the tokens

did that ended up you could be in Saudi Arabia and have the tokens and say send me the wine I said well it's ten thousand dollars a bottle because we have to do contraband right but in right in most markets this means it'll actually be much cheaper than if you had bought it through any other mechanism why because the price that I can declare for the export to the importer that's actually moving the physical product is that based at cost right so for my cost is the basis that's what and I have a reason for specifying that because again the wealth is changing the valuation could be changing up or down in the secondary market so the amount of tax that's associated with that will be much

less now why this is interesting is if you think about different markets here in Europe it's not so difficult or in the u.s. maybe you have a two or three X amount of tax on top of imported alcohol but in a place like Brazil it might be 7 X 7 times the value in a place like India it's up to 10 times so a five dollar bottle of wine and exported from Argentina in a restaurant and deli could easily be $100 100 $150 but in that range and so and most of that is because of excise and duties and tax right so the lower you can have a justification without breaking laws without

circumventing without doing a double invoicing that's where this is really interesting from all kinds of other ways aside from that we're also doing the first next month we're doing the first export of wine from Argentina to Uruguay as a trial and having our export invoice paid either probably and died or in or in BTC right so the third element I said we had that price the tokenization the the question about transparency and the third question has to do with what people think when they're drinking it how do

they feel about it and what the situation they're drinking it so we do this but I think all you drink it you own it and basically what it means is when the 2018 bottles become available next year on the 6th of May what we'll be doing is including information on the back label that you can scan it download an app and the app will ask you for your name address age information about you maybe even a tax ID number to do a selfie with the bottle and answer four five six questions about your experience drinking that bottle so we're going to be able to gather quite a lot of

information about who's actually drinking it but of course that's incredibly invasive time consuming I'm asking you to take time and sit there and answer all these questions so why would you do that well you don't have to it's a completely optional most people won't but if you do it will issue a token that is backed by or represents legally one share of the company so now you've gone from being a consumer to being a partner you own the liquid in the glass and so now I ask you what do you think about your wine our wine so this is a concept if you drink it you

own it how can we flip the relationship between us with the consumer to incorporate them and the way I like to think about it is if you are drinking the wine you're putting it into your body already right you're provoking some thoughts maybe burning some brain cells whatever you're doing you're actually already making a pretty substantial commitment to this product so I'm just saying since you've done that if you've given me some feedback about it I'll make you part of the experience I want a share of the company right so this I'll open up all kinds of really cool and interesting options such as not only is it the dividends or voting

rights or traditional things like that but we can do a gamification so now we can ask you since you were partners now and by the way we know who you are we've done a kyc and if you've lied on any of the information that's fine but your shares aren't gonna be valid right so we've done a kyc and now we're asking you do you want to play a game and the game could be we've the our game was based on five different categories so you can play to be a viticulturists somebody that grows grapes you can be an analogous somebody that makes wine a sommelier right wine taster wine merchant part of the business or you can play to be a IOT blockchain person in

this game and it's a didactic game where we teach you little snippets of information about winemaking or growing grapes or these different things but periodically you'll get a question and the question will be could be one trivia type of question but as much as possible we want the questions to be to derive from data that we're generating in the vineyard or in the winery or in the business so if the question the question could be should we irrigate the Malbec grapes today right and why well the only way you could answer that would be to go and look at the sensor data so now

you've learned a little bit about water usage in the vineyard you become a turk machine for our data validating actually looking at the sensors because that's one of the hard issues like you can push all this data out there who's gonna look at it and why and if you answer the question properly you get some points if you don't answer properly you lose points or if you don't answer all you lose points right and at the end of the year when we do our cycle of the vintage token we can take set aside 10% of our wine vintage tokens and give them to the game players proportionally to how many points that they have right so now you're learning about wine you're making money or you know earning tokens that you can sell in exchange you can

drink the bottles you could resell the bottles and we're partners and how else I mean what better brand ambassador could you have than that so this is the concept of drink it you drink it you own it flipping the relationship with the customer and going like I said from the concept of the vine to the wine to the table and to people's minds and getting this information so once you start doing this there's all kinds of really cool things that you can do and like I said the data that we're collecting today in the vineyard in the winery we're writing to a side chain because of the cost of

doing it in Maine it obviously and we're looking at ways to do that to make that more visible well one of the things we want to do is we've built a prototype I don't have one here with me but basically what we've done is taken a wine bottle cut it in half put a Raspberry Pi 4 inside of it with some sensors a speaker some lights and a digital ink display so it looks like a label and providing this we're rolling this out next month to wine shops in Argentina in Brazil where they're selling the one already and say this is your your your token your device that for me it's an advertisement point

because it's branded and everything but basically it allows them to do a couple of things by having a temperature and light sensor they can measure the the ambient conditions of the wine shop right and one of the selling points of a wine shop over supermarkets that they can't really compete with on price is to say we look after our product right we keep it at a good can good temperature now they would have a way to prove that and say this but this device here this funky-looking bottle with electronics inside of it is actually auditing the shop and it's part of this new thing called the blockchain right and it's also validating data from this vineyard could be other vineyards

it's earning a few tokens of one bottles every year and it's a point-of-sale device so that they can validate transactions if they're charging if they're an allowing them to to receive payment and in any kind of crypto for their other products right and it's a speaker to listen to vino phonics so this is a concept of a vena block it's how we can make our our sidechain decentralized truly each one event a very heterogeneous fashion because each one of these are independent mom-and-pop shops mostly that have their own internet connected connection and all we

need to do is give them this device configured for them and now they are part of their running an actual node that's doing stuff that's useful to them and it's useful for us to get the word out so another cool thing once you've got all of this data that you're collecting like I said one of the problems with collecting data especially environmental data is like who's looking at it right and so I thought well since we've got all this data points we should do something artistic or something that really helps extend breaking this as a metaphor for understanding how this all

works how it all glues together so we built this device called vena phonics now I brought part of it here but essentially what this is it's a hand-built analog synthesizer the back part is based on the design of ARP 2600 which is a synthesizer from 1971 it's open source design now there's done some reissues recently by Korg and baring her and these different synthesizer manufacturers so it's completely analog meaning that you're manipulating voltages to make sounds and we did has created this veena phonics which has a block chain switch it's running a Raspberry Pi inside as a

gift mode it has an Arduino mega and some other basic off-the-shelf stuff and what this does is it reads the data from the vineyard through the blockchain and allows us to manipulate these sliders here these 16 sliders to manipulate whatever the sound is that we happen to be running right now the patch which is the way it's cabled and the configuration we can do and change that as much as we want but what's really cool about modular synthesizers like this is you can set up a configuration such that it actually goes into this

really long kind of extended loop of making these sound scapes and if you could introduce some chaos into it some modifications then it makes it something that's really a sound source on its own and so the idea here is mapping these sliders to the temperature to wind direction wind speed rainfall these sorts of things so you can imagine that this slider here will map to the temperature in the vineyard and so that's gonna be kind of a sine wave mostly right it's cold at night hot in the day and this is going to move back and forth because these are motorized sliders so that's what I've got here and as you can see we can give it a try if I

can find the all right so all right so this is just an oscillator that could be easily mapped to anything let's see that works okay great so right now it's it's offline to see if it works and so let's see all right so let's see if this works go

vineyard [Music] one of you can see that but all of these sliders are now autonomous and basically we'll get the data from the blockchain and revert to whatever position so I could do different things and play with this and I can do it in a local mode if I'm doing a performance and let's say okay let's play along with the vineyard and change other elements patches does anybody have perfect pitch I think

that's like a la 440 [Music] now really necessary right now you might be asking yourself yeah but that's I don't that's horrible music that's not really good music to that I have three things to tell you first of all this is not the whole instrument

this is the controller it does have a couple of oscillators so we can make some sound but there's other pieces missing the second thing is I just put this together and so I really don't know how to use it yet I haven't figured out the musicality aspect of it flying back to Argentina tonight we'll figure it out and this will be streaming via phonics comm or via phonics not a our 24/7 so if you want to listen to it the third thing is maybe you need to question your judgment about music and and have a more open mind and it's not just me right this is actually could be something that you get a dick titude and listen to every day and so what we want to also do later on as an app allow the

people that are registered in the app our partners our shareholders to be able to move the sliders you know to manipulate it to play with the vineyard the vineyard would override it every three minutes but you can modify it and play along with the vineyard so that's been a phonics and like I say then you start to get into other areas and you think well what else could I do with all this information so recently started working with a start-up out of Oxford super cool called vet even ravine and they are physicists that basically have

built a raman non-invasive spectrometer right this is a device that's a little bit bigger than vino phonics looks like a you know like a printer scanner size thing and what this device allows you to do is scan a bottle analyze a bottle of wine without on taking the cork out right without extracting any liquid from the bottle so essentially you put a bottle of wine into this oisin close the cover and has a laser and an array of sensors that will detect will measure the absorption and refraction of light and come back to you and give you a veena print a fingerprint a digital fingerprint of the contents

now at this point it's a it's a prototype device it's only been in existence a couple of months but since I had to bottle the 20:18 the MTB 18 bottles this year and in october 18th of october what we did is i bottled the 16384 bottles that I talked about put those aside in cold storage but we took 512 bottles and bottled it in four different types of glass transparent to different color green bottles and a brown bottle and built this this rack of 512 bottles with infrared green

ultraviolet warm neutral and cold white light with different LED arrays temperature controlled same cork same wine same everything what changes is the light and the diff for different types of bottles in each set so what we want to see here is the effect of what's called light strike like does light we know that light will oxidize wine the question is what kind of light and why is it have to be in a green bottle right what do we put one in a green bottle well that's a traditional thing and everybody says oh because it bricked to protects it from the light does it really what light and what about other types of glass so we did a baseline measured all the bottles put the bottles

in the rack we'll do our second one in May we'll also open some do some tape blind tastings those types of things and this is about learning distance experiment about wine we've also bottled a hundred and twenty eight bottles with a screw cap synthetic or natural cork conglomerate cork and so it's a science experiment but also but mostly what we want to find out is okay if I want to map a wine asset not just a whole vintage but maybe an nft right what is the noise that I have to eliminate so that if I put it into a machine like this I can always go yep

that's a that I don't have a label I don't know what the label says I don't care but I know that's inside of that bottle is this particular wine right it could be my wine it could be a really expensive wine from the 1940s whatever it is what's valuable is to be able to identify that and associate this with the value crypto asset so this is what very veena is about and it's a pretty cool way if you think about it there's a lot of fraud that happens today in the wine world it's a really it's a beautiful crime to commit if you're selling really old bottles because people don't open them and so they can just pass from hand to hand and have

this incredible value associated with them and yet it could be completely fake inside that's one thing the second thing is if you spent ten thousand euros on a bottle of wine and said you know what it I'm gonna open it we're gonna drink this tonight you probably you might not know what that bottle is supposed to taste like so you don't know if you you've been screwed or not if you did open it and you did recognize that this is a fake are you gonna tell your guests I was an idiot and I just paid $10,000 for this bottle of wine probably not or maybe so and if you did decide to sit come clean and say you know what I know that I didn't I got robbed and this is a fraud what are you gonna do because

you bought it from somebody who bought it from somebody who brought it from somebody and they have days I don't know that's I thought it was real you know so that's that's why it's a an interesting thing to deal with also imagine that you know you're a wine buyer in India or in China and you come to my place and I open up a bottle and offer you taste and you think oh that's really good okay let's I want to buy you know X amount and we start negotiating a price so we come to a deal and I say fine let's do the paperwork and I'll get everything under way it's probably gonna be at best for two months four months maybe six months before you get your first shipment because of all the the

logistics involved now you're sitting in your wine shop in in Delhi on Beijing and you get this and you open a few bottles and you go is that the stuff that I had that day at Mike's place or did he send me something else right now I wouldn't do that but if you had a mechanism even if you didn't use it right that you knew you could verify it and you don't have to rely on your memory of that or you can verify that yeah it's the same wine but it's set in a port in Jebel Ali and Dubai or in Singapore at 50 degrees and it's cooked right that you could somehow check that without opening all you know every you

could open a few boxes take the bottles out but not uncork it and get that conclusion right so there's all kinds of really interesting applications for this so this is a open source project open B know we've got everything published on our wiki all the information is there open vino exchange is our token exchange and if you follow us and tweet something out now today I'll send you and you send me a message to on our telegram group of open B no my personal telegram is Mike tango Bravo one word I'll send you a token so you can have your first wine

back to crypto asset and to that are there any questions thank you very much [Applause] yes I think wait wait I'm gonna get your microphone first I have to say that I love the idea of breaking open source winemaking because I love both world yes thank you very much if you don't matter I will talk first I will drink after so I'm gonna turn this off just because I

don't want any blacks and especially in this idea I like the fight to bring together in the same boat the winemaker and the people will enjoy it first to link then with all those data you hear and then to bring them on board by sharing some share of the company Wow but my question is how you do that and do you plan to release some security token or is it like real fear and just wandering in the house yeah okay so it's a token let's call it a security token because in fact it is a security right

but three points about that first of all we've doing this all in Argentina we're not doing it in Malta we're not doing it in Gibraltar it's in Argentina it's a corporation in Argentina that I'm publishing all the taxes I'm paying I'm collecting v80 every time I sell a token during the ico right and and so I'm giving all this information I'm talking to Argentine regulators I'm saying look if we're not legal then show me who is that's the first thing second thing is we are doing this extended kyc as part of the process because that's the whole point of you know if you're gonna play the game with us later and then you're gonna cheat which you might find a way to cheat it's much less of an incentive

if you are a known entity in this pool of people right so basically well we'll issue as your token and then that token we can get your personal data and change the legal the company to represent those shares and basically track the wallets that those tokens are and if they change wallets then we'll say okay who does it own who's it own by now right because we need to do that adjustment so technically it's not at all complicated it's more of a complicated question of how to do it legally and how to facilitate the change now Argentina recently has an electronic books for shareholders in the company so it's you

can do it online digitally it's much easier but that's actually the difficult part there's no technical challenge of doing this anybody else I was wondering you're selling your wine at cost at the end of the day Oh wouldn't be more interesting to to sell it to the marginal so very good question so the the question of the the valuation is like I said we are issuing the tokens at cost we are keeping some of the tokens to sell later because of you know in case of loss or breakage or because I

drink a lot I need to keep some but that doesn't and so there could be some value gain there there's Galip value created in the liquidity pool for vini swap but there's no requirement that we always sell at costs right that's how we're doing in the first years but we can do cost plus X I didn't want to start with some arbitrary price in the beginning because then I'm going back to you myself inventing the price right but it doesn't mean that we always have to do at a cost so I think we have time for one last question okay anybody should I pour this last glass or nobody

yes thank you I mean this is this is your this is the only IDE to fall for this industry I mean which is great because there's you thank you very much you're raising a lot of questions our concern as much for producers and consumers wine lovers I mean a lot of things and even me musicians I love the project but I saw you are the only one doing this are you not afraid like some like big massive wine corporation gonna take this idea and just switch you out so so yeah we are the only ones but you have to understand first of all the wine industry is super traditional secondly because of the the the you know that

it's so recent they're so new the tools that we're doing this with right I mean this is the third year for this conference I've come every year it's wonderful I love it but we all know how much alpha-beta stuff there isn't this and wine if you're a winery that you are successful in making money with your wine today do you really want to tokenize all of it and take this leap which is what I'm doing right so it is it's it's a risk just because of its new new now whiners come to me and they say hey we'd like to do that how do we do it and I say well you can go to the wiki you can go to our website you can download all this information we were on you know github there's our code and there but if I were you I would wait a

couple years and see what how we tweaked it what works what doesn't it's all free if you want me to help you I'd be more than happy to it's quite expensive that's you know maybe there's a business I so I guess really I don't have the answer of how this scales I can tell you that the reception even in the wine world was really positive about this so and yes you can apply this to coffee you can apply it to cacao you can apply it to other things where you're not dealing with the bearment commodity right if it's traded in Chicago it doesn't work for this but if there's something that changes over the lifecycle of the valuation you can do this so okay thank you very much [Applause]

if you want there is a the end speech in the main theater and there is a picture also I think