MiCA Licences' Competitive Advantage for Customer Acquisition | EBC11

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Hello. Okay, thank you very much. That's much better. Um, great to see uh such a full room at such an early hour. It's uh it's amazing. Uh so it's great to be here. We have a very interesting conversation ahead. Um we are going to be discussing MA. So uh as I was saying, my name is is Juan Vanes. I'm the general secretary of the Minka Crypto Alliance, an initiative to promote best practices in Minka compliance and assist our member companies in implementing MA requirements. But I'm not going to be doing the talking here is a star lineup of panelists that we have on stage and we're going to be discussing the competitive advantage that a MA license provides. Uh that's the the what makes a

licensed company stand out, but also under what circumstances and what are the gaps. Uh what else do we need and how do we adapt our processes? Um so um well we do we need a round of introductions. Uh let's do a round of introductions. Um and let's have our panelists uh introduce themselves please. So let's start with Errol. >> Absolutely. So I'm Errol. Uh I'm the CEO of OKX in Europe and we have our Micah license in Europe already since January. >> Yes. Hi, my name is Marco, managing director of Bullish Europe, uh which is a European entity of uh Bullish Global.

Uh we're also uh Mika licensed uh since a couple of weeks. Um and yeah, we passported uh throughout all of Europe because that's our core market here. >> Hey everyone, my name is Michael Strife. I'm the co-founder and CEO at Wenger. Um Venga has applied to the cryptocurrency license, Mika. We still haven't received it. We're in our application process. Um, I've been in the crypto space since professionally since 2020 and I've kind of seen it all. I've been through a time where no licenses were required. No VASPs existed. Then VASPs came to be. I was actually part of a company that we were I think number eight in Spain to secure the VASP license and now I'm

co-founder at WGA and we are in the process of getting our Mika license. Thank you. >> Hi everybody. So my name is Marine. I'm the chief marketing and uh growth officer at Bitfavo. Um we are a Amsterdam based uh centralized exchange from uh the Netherlands, but we're built for Europe and we also have uh secured our le our mikar license in June. Uh so we're now poised to uh to further grow in uh in Europe with a what we consider a very exclusive exchange license because mikar is not a one-size thing, right? There's there's many aspects to MGAR and we pride ourselves in having a Mikar exchange license and we're looking forward to the to the panel discussion.

>> Great. Uh thank you very much and uh let's just dive right into it. Actually I want to start with Errol. So OKX was one of the first uh to secure a license. I think it was in in January even. So I I I think we we can appreciate your perspective here uh a bit. what makes a licensed company a ma licensed company stand out and what competitive advantage do you uh think it provides? >> So uh in terms of advantages that we uh uh recognized immediately early on was the level of trust additional trust both from our retail users but also our institutional users. Um that was one thing that immediately we realized that was a big uptick in our business. Now the other thing that is also important

is the perception uh with partners um as a large exchange now also setting foot in Europe. We also want to partner with local payment rails. We want to partner with uh local eid solutions. We want to partner with data brokers to help reduce friction when our users on board on our platform. Um, so back in the day before we had the pan European Micah license, um, they were quite skittish to us, uh, because we only had our license our our license in Malta and the Netherlands.

Um, so they were like, look, this is not on a panuropean level. So then we uh when we got the mic license it really you know like put a stamp of uh pan European approval uh on us and it was much easier to start engaging in partnerships with payment companies with eid solutions with data brokers. So uh in that sense it really uh helped in propelling our business in Europe forward. >> Thank you very much for that. And you mentioned partnerships, you mentioned brokers. I want to ask Marion from your perspective as as CMO, do you also see an advantage and you don't need to say yes. Uh tell us the truth. Uh do you see an advantage for customer acquisition uh from having a a Mika license?

>> I'm going to say yes. Uh I see big advantages and that is because we serve two sorts of customers, right? So we are a retail exchange. So we serve we go direct to consumers. So consumers can download our app and be a customer uh straight away. We have 2 million ID verified accounts at the moment and poised to grow to 10 million. But we also of course uh serve the institutional market and with Mikar you see uh many new players stepping in banks uh brokers um asset managers and those customers for those customers were also in the market because they need a a settlement venue and uh yeah that is uh that is a second opportunity for us. So um yeah, I see it as a as a big opportunity.

>> And um I I I also want to ask this to you, Marco. Uh Bullish obviously has a strong institutional component. Uh and and Errol was already hinting at at the component of trust. So how do you see this advantage and what's how does Bullish see it? Well, I I can totally agree that this actually one of the reasons why uh Bullish as one of the biggest liquidity providers in the world has chosen uh Germany as its uh European headquarter. Um and we applied for the Mika license with Baffin which is the tier one regulator I would say in in Europe. Um and this is a strategy bullish follows uh around the globe being licensed with top tier regulators only due to the fact that we are u mainly address institutional clients um

banks, brokers, dealers as as mentioned earlier here on that stage. Um the the level of trust that comes with a tier one license um is the best you can get to open doors at at your clients. Um so from that point of view there's really nothing more to add but yeah it's it's trust uh compliance officers like uh the Mika license especially coming from a tier one uh regulator and um this is our experience as well. >> So would you say I mean you you you had a prem license before would you say there was a before and after in terms of the trust perceived with the Mika license in particular?

>> Um yes and no. Um we've been buff and licensed uh before under the German banking act as a VASP. Um this gave us enough credibility um to get pretty well connected and uh address our potential clients. But nevertheless, literally everyone was waiting uh for us to become Mika licensed as Mika especially focused on crypto um was the the final door opener I would say. Um yeah can I can I just maybe also like add a few notes on the before and after right because from our perspective from Venga's perspective we we're it's very different we're a very early stage startup right so the

company was actually formed only in 2023 we secured our first VAS licenses in 2024 and right when we secured our vast licenses we immediately started working on Mika so really from one side it pushed us to change all of our strategies it's pushed me to change my strategies and approach of how quick I need to implement everything that we needed to implement for Mika. But at the same time, the positive side of that is that we are built from the ground up to be Mika compliant. It was an effort of everyone on the on my team is a huge effort because in essence, we're going through vast licenses then we're embarked in ma licensing application and at the same time we're launching a

company from zero, right? But right now we're in a place in a very comfortable place I can say where we are Mika compliant from the ground up. So for me on the before and after it's very funny when like I heard that question there is no really before there's just today. But let me follow up on that also because I was listening to your previous talk right and you were presenting uh strategies starting in Catalonia going to Spain and then to the rest of Europe. Uh so typically when we think of the advantage of of of Mika um we think of well you can access 30 countries almost uh with a single license. Uh caveats there but basically um but that's that's not the only way to go about it or you don't go about it in that way from the

start. So can you tell us a bit more about how that that strategy geographically looks like and at at which point the Mika license uh plays a a more important role? >> Yeah of course. So I mean Mika plays an important role from day one, right? We need to be regulated and that's that label of trust that we that we need to have. But it's just my strategy and my approach is that we need to think local before going global, right? Um Venga is a Barcelona based company. Uh ever since I moved to Barcelona, I wanted to build a a company that truly serves the local community, right? So the strategy that I have is we go Barcelona, Catalunia, then we go Spain. In 2026, we're trans translating our application into Galatian and into Basque. Once we do

that, we'll be the first crypto app in the world to have all Spanish, all main Spanish dialects. Then once we do that, we'll go and consider expanding into other countries in Europe, right? But if we do so, when we do so, we will always do so with the localized approach, the same approach that I have in in in Spain. Simply because also maybe want to point out that I grew up in a age of globalization. um you know, you travel hundreds of miles, hundreds of thousands of miles, whatever, and and you arrive to different cities, and it's all the same, same shops, same stores, same things everywhere. That that's kind of the globalization. And I'm a little bit sick of it, and I believed I truly believe that the way forward is having truly localized products that serve local

cities and local communities as much as it's it's possible. right now. That might mean that we move a little bit slower, but I'm sure we'll be more successful. It'll be more effective in the long term. >> I have plenty of follow-ups on that, but I don't know if you realize it was very inconspicuous, but we have another panelist on stage now. So, Mata, I would love to uh welcome you to the panel and allow you to introduce yourself. And I also want to ask you as a follow-up of that um has Mika proved a competitive advantage for BBU? Um, is it a business enabler? How do you see it?

>> Hi guys, sorry I'm late. Uh, let me introduce myself. This is Marzuka. Now I'm the EU director of Bobby EU and uh, previously actually working in crypto industry for more than six years and before that actually more than 10 years of uh, payment experience in different industries. So yeah, I think we're very excited to land it on EU and uh and one of the like big partners here. We also hope that we can build up ecosystem. Uh like you said the advantage that Mika bring to us. I think the first one is uh it can literally help us to do the long-term strategy. Let's say you want to do the business here uh like link with the banks also with some of the

like professional financial institutions and definitely we need to have license and of course uh I think with this kind of uh uh power we can extend our business from different perspective right and secondly I think it's also open more opportunities for us um you know bring our uh existing experience um products to by uh to the EU market because previously you understand it's a uh different like financial environment but now since we come here I think this a very excited to bring like international experience here it's a mutual process for both of us. Yeah. Oh, thank you. And actually, I have a

followup on that because you were talking about banks and I'd like us to so we we've been talking about the the competitive advantages coming from a license in the abstract. Uh, but I also want to compare with other sort of players uh that may be entering the market, right? So, when we when I think of Mika, I've always thought of it as like the first step of um of a banking rate regulation on crypto on web 3. And you can think of it as a entry point for banks to the web3 world, but also maybe for the web 3 incumbents to adopt more banking like functions. Um, so I want I want to double click on that and and ask you a follow-up. How do you see the relationship between exchanges and banks before and after uh the obtion of a Mika

license? Yeah, I gotta say before we have license, it's pretty hard to knock out the door. you say who you are and say sorry we just run a global and uh where you licensed you know it's always very embarrassing question like this but now at least we can say hey we have license we are happy to introduce ourself I know it's not so uh easy for us I think for all of our players it's not so easy to connect with them but things are changing you know now uh when I talk with bank at least they uh firstly they interested to hear more about crypto and when when we want to uh build up a further cooperation with them say hey are you interested to do the

cost duty or uh even we can uh do the white label service for you or we can also support you for tokenization and listing. They're very interesting and want to talk with us and you already know a lot of banks actually issue stable coin projects. So always want to find a secondary market to waste in also create more value for their uh tokens. Of course we can provide solution and we are expert. Uh Marco how do you see do do you see banks and exchanges as competitors as collaborators uh a mix tilted to which side? Uh in the in the post Mika world >> um I would say they they start to

cooperate. Um, Mika was one of the starting points to build the bridge between Treadfi and DeFi. Um, now that it's a European regulation in place, um, even the old established Treadfi players recognize, okay, um, DeFi is there to stay. So, they they need to think a little bit more about their uh, scale of products. Um, what are they willing to offer? What do they need to offer in the future to their clients? So, and uh bringing us as um crypton natives um in into the game for them as u mentioned by Mazuka um is really not only to help them um but also to become partners and

partner up with the established um Treadfi banks, brokers uh and so on and so forth. >> Yeah, if I can also maybe add add a few points an interesting insight. So one of the actually the first company in Spain to have secured the Mika license was the BBBA a bank. Uh next now I think this week Santandere announced that they're entering the crypto space. They're launching a crypto cryptocurrency exchange on one of their new banks called open bank. So again you have all of these players now banks entering the space. This was not the case before. And it's very curious for me because CFI centralized finance basically what Vango is was formed because banks were not in the crypto space. You had decentralized

finance and DeFi and all of those things which were very complicated and traditional finance was not in crypto and in the middle you got CFI that formed right specifically for people who need the simplicity of traditional finance but don't want to go DeFi right so right now this landscape is changing banks are entering the space and I'm very curious where it will go moving from here because in my opinion it's kind of it looks as if competition is starting which isn't a bad thing right it also means institutional adop option and potentially maybe maybe even a road map to M&As in the future >> and and okay so we've been talking about banks um and when we think banks I think of slower institutions not as digitally savvy I don't know if

that continues to hold true I don't know what you think um but what about neo banks though neo banks they are um they're supposed to be digitally native they're supposed to be um faster to move. Um, so, okay, we we've discussed that there's a a a strong cooperation relationship as well as a competitive one, but how do you see um the relationship with neo banks in particular? >> Maybe I can take that one. So we see uh banks as potential customers of Bitfavo um and neo banks also uh obviously they're very early to uh to come on uh to come into the market and offer crypto

to their to their retail base. But what you see and what I've seen so far is that these NEO banks typically charge very high trading fees and they also incur a quite significant spread in the pricing of the digital assets, right? Which is I guess fine if you're looking for convenience. If you're looking for easy accessibility and a one-stop shop, then I guess it's fine. And if you're a buy and holder, uh I guess uh these neo banks will always take a share of the pie. let's say they're also helping to grow the pie because accessibility helps to uh grow adoption. Um but at the same time I think the customers and the the retail that wants to trade a little bit more the more you trade the more price sensitive you become and that's also when you start to look for other trading

venues and that's where Bitfavo comes in. Um, as said before, we only have two million retail uh clients, but we have 50% 50 of the European denominated crypto pairs globally, which is mostly Europe of course. Um, and that is something we pride ourselves in and we uh we're happy and welcome neo banks and fintex to enter the space. I think they help to drive adoption. uh when customers become more trading savvy and care more about pricing then they will come to trading outlets like Bitfavo and then we're also there to welcome them and in the meantime we're here for uh for for those banks and institutions to be welcomed as a customer because they do need a trading venue an exchange to settle their their volume right so um I

think it's a big opportunity and a very welcome trend to see all these players step in >> um So thank you for that. I want to go back to then to the to the issue of the competitive advantage because lots of possible collaboration. I see very much the trust component, but let's let's try to to dial back to to that. Um and I'm interested in something that Michael said, uh which is you you are a young company. Um you did apply for your BAS license first, but it was so close to the the Mika application that you you consider yourself Mika uh native almost.

Um there's another situation which is an established company that has been with a vast license for a long time um and now finally uh applies for a mika license now that the regime is open and then I I I have the question the general question to everyone but I'm going to ask to Errol uh first um who who is in um in a better position here is it the the native firm because you have the flexibility to adapt all of your processes to Mika from the ground up or is it a firm that already had everything adapted to a preminka license and has an infrastructure to build upon and I'm I was curious to ask this to OKX because OKX got it so early. So I'm wondering if that had anything to do with that.

>> Very good question indeed. And the thing is for us uh we already early on chose Malta as a jurisdiction. Why? uh because let's let's call I mean like um crypto bitcoin it exists you know like more or less 15 years already something like that depend on when you decide to the start of of of bitcoin as an as an asset class or crypto as an asset class started. So then uh I think a couple of events happened. The regulators across the world also decided to step in uh and to regulate this new asset class and also the the industry players. Um we saw regulation coming in in different jurisdictions across the world. Uh with within OKX and also other players, we

probably started to realize quite early on that the future of crypto and digital asset was going to be regulated uh of nature. So we then also started to look into on a global level uh all the jurisdictions that had already a crypto regulatory framework or were in the making of getting a crypto regulatory framework. We would go in set up a local entity hire a team of local experts and try to apply for that license. Now we've done that already in several jurisdictions around the world bringing it closer to home to Europe. um Malta was one of the first jurisdictions to come up with a comprehensive crypto regulatory framework. We then also decided to set up shop there. And compared to some of the other

jurisdictions that we saw in Europe who had like a mere regulation or registration kind of setup, the setup in some of those countries where where we opted to be present was a full licensed grade uh setup. Now the uplift from that vasp license that was already available back then to a full fullscale micica license was relatively uh was relatively light because they were already entered on PSD2 and and EMI license structures. So for us that uplift was a relatively light light light uh uplift for us to do.

>> But I just want to point out I think I think that really depends on the type of company that you are. So, of course, if you're an EMI institution and you have everything that is already preset up to be to be compliant, that's great. But if you're a company that is not EMI, that has been kind of, you know, that has products and services that are more innovative, that's a different story. So, maybe to give a backside of Mika is that this year I had to cancel at least three innovative projects, products that I was working on because they're not Mika compliant. And that's fine because there's a lot of other stuff that I can be focusing on, right? But that's just like paint paint paint you a picture right sometimes there's more changes that are needed um depending on the situation depending on the company

>> you are not planning on launching an interesting bearing stable coin or so >> no it's just a joke about you launching a stable coin >> maybe soon I don't know I would need a license >> maybe a few additional words as um we as bullish I mean we were licensed in Jibralta first uh in Hong Kong plan. Um, as mentioned earlier, Germany is our European footprint. Um, and uh, for for us, the European setup, um, I mean, we're on the ground for roughly a year now in Europe. So, this is why we actually started with Vaspal license uh, back in 2024 to migrate into into Mika.

Um, and and this was a pretty much straightforward plan actually. Um we have been in talks with the regulators early and uh also we collaborated with the with the regulator to figure out what might be the smoothest and and smartest way to achieve the mika license. Um and so this I literally sit between chairs, right? I mean uh having OKX u maltis license uh early u sitting next to to a rather young company uh literally walking the same path we did.

Um and from from that point of view there's always a reason of why you choose your individual way. So I I don't think there's a right or wrong per se um or an advantage being um VASP regulator or VASP licensed uh and and step up into Mika or building up Mika from from scratch. No, >> I agree in with that very strongly. I don't think there is a right or a wrong way uh in that sense. Uh there are many different factors that come into play when uh when companies chooses a jurisdiction. uh that can be talent that can be historical reasons uh it can be for multiple different different reasons. So I I I I just want to feel uh

say that you know like everybody here who has chosen to follow the mica path also the the team of Wenger I just want to congratulate them and welcome them in the whole you know like pan European micica licensed setup. So that's uh very impressive things for you guys to do. >> Thank you. >> I think I think there is a there's a huge advantage and and difference in how uh the different players uh treat Europe, right? In fact, you could you could say you could break it down into global players that play the European play like OKX, like Bybit, uh, Bitfavo who is a who is built for Europe from the beginning. So, the only thing we do is focus on continental Europe. We don't have a global strategy. We have a

European strategy and then there's the local national players, the brokers mostly that start in the country and might see an opportunity to further expand into Europe. Um I think if you look at the global players if you're if you're not set out if you're not started as a uh mikar compliant or with mikar in mind it's very hard to adapt to the European uh requirements that the regulator sets right it's uh basically you're managing your global company and now you have to make compromises for your European setup if you look for example at BBIT they have to duplicate the application so you now have a second application that is by EU and many others also on the back end they will have to make many changes. Some grew big

as an exchange globally, but today they can only act in Europe as a broker. Some are raising their uh fees. So the whole level, the whole playing field is changing. And I think for the players that have always started out as a European focused and a European uh originating company, they they they are very much advantaged as long as they you know stick to their strategy and um and really focus on Europe. So I think there's huge advantages there. >> I I think actually it's a very interesting question especially for all of us. Uh from my perspective I think definitely as a local players like Vidvo uh you have a lot of experience in Europe and also because um uh as a local

player you have a lot of resources advantage know uh very known about reputation and bank connections and also talent resources I got to say it's um a very good advantage and it can help you to quickly adapt to the market especially for mikar even mikar is new for all of us but actually this kind of advantage which is very important but I also see a lot of challenge and uh you you know the opportunities we bring to the market because definitely when we have a license especially introduce uh international player like us to the market what we want to bring to um Europe is definitely uh our experience like AML uh also like uh business

continuency plan and um uh like our risk control policies because managing the very big user base like for us already 76 million registration users it's not a busy easy work and every day we are confronted with a lot of challenges I think at least is something we can really introduce to Europe and on another size I think it's um uh more comprehensive financial products because previously if you come to Europe market it's always got a different like banking business uh or like a spot trading derivatives trading you know very isolated product but what we bring to the regulator also the

environment is more comprehensive product that's why uh sandbox is a really interesting model for all for all of us we try to bring more opportunities also create new product model I think that's a new blood the European market really need and also for uh different kind of projects they like need this kind of new blood >> this has my favorite question. I I I love the insights. It's actually getting really really valuable and I appreciate uh all of the unique perspectives that we're getting here. Uh Mata, actually I want to follow up on you because um I want to move now from the issue of uh what this how you adapt how what this provides to you in terms of advantage to

what you need to better exploit it. Right? you are uh you are coming to the European Union from another jurisdiction. What support do you need uh from the regulators, from the ecosystem to make the best use of these competitive advantages that we've discussed? >> Yeah, I think it's um something um from all of us need uh to get support from the regulator. Uh first of all, it's overall massive market user education. uh even if we set up a crypto as a business now for the you know for the massive market some especially for some countries crypto is still new uh need need more people to understand it's not

uh it's not dangerous it's not scammers actually it's literally a business and it's important actually it's a kind of positive investment we need to you know make more education on it that's the first thing second thing is uh really um like infrastructure support like I say the banking system I can definitely feel now it's not easy to link with uh all the banking system uh like for all the European countries because it's not the pinpoint for uh like a one or two years uh even when we try to meet some banks I know I know maybe you have some experience it's not easy even banks they have different risk appetite now not

mentioned about crypto so I think for This whole industry it literally need all our players and to collaborate together with the regulator financial instrument to do more on it. Otherwise a lot of pinpoint like liquidity on-ramp offer banking rails like a lower fees more like a better user experience we cannot solve this kind of infrastructure issues. It's really pingpoint. So I I think um this kind of report is support is very important for us. The third one is um uh I just want to tell from our our BBIT perspective uh because we always want to contribute more as a crypto hub. We want to build up

ecosystem. In that case we need to you know collaborate more with the web two partners, web 3 partners also cross industry partners to build up together. In that case I think uh like today um like European uh blockchain convention this kind of opportunity is very good for us. We hope that we can have more like um communication in the industry build up the business together. Um in that case we can achieve our mission. >> Other perspectives on this?

>> No 100% align with what Mazurka was saying. I think we also as a as a group, you know, and as an industry need to work a little bit harder to come together as an industry. It's still a fairly young industry. Um, but then also if we see, you know, like what happened unfortunately like last weekend or the previous the previous weekend, you know, that still shows that as an industry we still need to, you know, do a little bit more effort to come together and to to prevent such kind of uh fallouts. Uh so I think in that sense we we we we do need to step up a little bit as an industry and come together.

>> Yeah. But um I mean is isn't this was what what Mika is about uh in in the end like uh bringing Dreadfi and DeFi closer together collaborate and um serve as like one financial system of the future. Um um and and not separate the way it was back in the days when when crypto was like really something for natives. um and no one investing in Trefi was even looking at crypto. Um now that everything is being regulated um under European uh rule book um it's even easier also for the established um let's

say asset managers and so on um to allocate more of their institutional money into the crypto space and uh increase the asset allocation um in the benefit of crypto. Um and I think this is also part of our work because um as uh as Majuka mentioned um we consider ourselves as partners, the future partners of uh big traditional banks um institutional players um offering full service on on the within the crypto space um not not only access to liquidity but also brokerage uh custody solutions uh and if if necessary we step in as a onetop shop provider.

>> Yeah. No, I wanted to maybe add a little bit of a different angle to this. So, one thing that that none of you mentioned and this is also coming from from from Vango's perspective, right? From a small company, small startup perspective, one of the key things that is needed as support for Mika is funding. Mika is extremely expensive for a startup, right? the minimum credential safeguards requirements that are needed to enter Mika huge uh you need to have a full-time chief compliance officer you need to have a full-time MLRO you need to have a full-time team you need to have all the policies in place etc etc I mean if you're established player yeah of course you have all that but if now you're a

startup coming into the space and want to be a centralized finance uh company and you're raising funds that's a very difficult game right now uh I can't imagine myself having a convers conversation with the VC and telling him, "Hey, look, I have this amazing idea, but just give me 500 500K. I need to get this license, which I might not get. Well, maybe I'll get it, maybe I won't. It depends how how good I am at pitching. >> It's not just funding, right? It's also I mean the in the implementation the proportionality of their requirements um harmonization in a in a in a reasonable way uh that you know um still has a level playing field but at the same time respects proportionality and I believe

we still have work to do on a on the implementation side. Um >> I think in the Netherlands u crypto is is very popular in the Netherlands >> in terms of adoption, retail adoption and all from all the research that we do, we see that the adoption in the Netherlands is typically high. The same as with internet adoption. If you look in the finance category in the in the app or the play store, you look at the number of crypto companies in the top 100 compared to other European countries, there's many that are up there in the top 100. Now with Mikar indeed to what my uh neighbor sorry what's your name again Michael sorry uh but what Michael is saying uh I also recognize in the Netherlands for Bitfavo as market leader it's sort of easy to

carry the investment levels that are associated with obtaining a Mikar license and the number of people you require and the external support you need but we've also seen a lot of players step out of the market in the Netherlands very like the local brokers that only had a national play they could not carry the the burden and the effort that it took to uh to obtain a maker license. So we've seen a shake out there and I think we see that across Europe. So there will be less competition from a national broker point of view and you could say there is more competition from a global point of view but that's not how we see it because these regulatory forces will break down the global market into regional markets. And then again the repeating my message if you're a

European native player and you're fully committed to Europe I think that brings a lot of advantage. >> I think I think the competition is going to change because we have banks that are entering the space right now. So some players are leaving some players are entering. So >> yeah and th those players we welcome because they typically have very high fee models and therefore they appeal to the investment type of uh retail that is less price sensitive. So they will take a share of the buy but once people start to trade more they become more costconscious. So I think for brokers uh banks are more competition because they're typically on the same price levels but for exchanges that play in a volume play and therefore are low priced we do not see that as competition but as a welcome addition to our customer

portfolio. >> And to add to that it's not only the cost of purely Micah. uh if if you want to operate in in Europe as a financial institution, you also have to comply with DORA, with GDPR, with DAC 8. There are so many different type of regulatory requirements that you have to comply with. So overall, the whole margin of this kind of business is getting shrinking and shrinking. So indeed it also makes it much more difficult for new entrance like like the Venga team to to enter into this space and already established people or or players uh that are being squeezed out because of uh the the strict regulatory requirements.

>> I mean Dora requirements uh let's not open that kind of worms because if we were concerned about costs and Mika then this is going to be a quite a difficult conversation and we're going to be here uh in much gloomer mood. Um but at least yeah many many players are um exiting or choosing this is not for us anymore. Some are entering. Everybody here has decided to stay or to enter. Uh so I guess you have a a very a a unique perspective from the in-house how it's been to see the transformation. I mean every company when they're applying for a ma license it is a sprint. You need to adapt lots of the the organizational

processes. Um there's there's many adaptations not just investments as as as Marco as as Michael was saying but uh so many other adaptations. How are you seeing that transformation of the internal processes and this is a question for everyone but I could start witha >> I got say uh we need to build up the new framework for all the things since um uh it's a new regulatory framework we need to set up the whole team to adapt to it like um uh all all our friends mentioned uh firstly set up new framework also uh like uh compliance oriented like EU compliance oriented structure also for

our talent we spend a lot not only limited on money also um try a lot with our existing uh experience I got to say it's tough and another side also uh just building up the different business plan because it's totally different model uh not comparable as a global business we're also confronted with a lot of challenges so building up the new business model how to run the product roadmap up is um you know the new topic for BBDU and actually we treat ourselves like a local exchange. So that's a case you know a lot of challenges we build up from scratch we also call ourselves like a startup. So every every challenge we're confronted with is the same that

the startup confronted with. Uh we want to do it more and um also learn more from global also learn from our uh like a local uh partners learn more to build it up. >> Um what about what about you? Yeah, for us also now that that we're a licensed financial regulator regulated institution, it comes with a whole, you know, additional layer of of cost and and and and safekeeping. There is this whole um governance structure with having a board with having a different type of committees that we have to put in place. Those are all things that before when before the whole micica vasp CASP uh kind of setup those things didn't really exist. So now we have to

make sure that we're much more robust. Uh there is much more reporting that we now need to do. Uh all also the other uh uh um regulated activities that I just mentioned like Dora, GDPR, DAC 8, you name it, right? Like all those things need to be structured and overseen by a prop proper governance and and and board on a local level with also having indeed as Mazurka also earlier pointed out the right local talent and uh the right reputation of people uh to be part in those committees and in those board. So those are things that you know like in addition to all the things that we already know in terms of getting the local fiat rails, the local KYC providers, the local uh local order

books and stuff like that, those are all things behind the scenes that also take up quite a bit of work um that we have to now implement. >> There's it's it's a huge behind thes scenes transformation and I can see all the nodding and smiles. Um I guess we are coming to the close to the panel close of the panel. We're finalizing. So I'd like to ask each one of you for a final comment and maybe uh if you could summarize in a single sentence what's been the biggest impact that uh Mika has had uh on the organization the license has had on your organization the big it could be the biggest competitive advantage or any other impact.

>> Well I would start from from our perspective um Mika opens up doors uh into the um institutional world. um bringing institutional money into the crypto space and uh this is probably um the biggest impact we see based on our business model obviously um and yes I mean licenses always come with a pro and a con right so cost income ratio is more or less a con um accessing fresh money uh that's going to be uh a huge factor in the future talking about instit initutional money. That's one of the pros,

>> Michael, >> for us is trust. Trust for our users. Trust that our users will have knowing that we have Mika and trust that we can give to our users to let them know that their digital assets are safe and secure at Venga. That is that is the most important thing. And then it's obviously partnerships um contracts that we need to sign thirdparty providers um even again we're talking about user acquisition here right so going back to marketing talking about you know marketing partnerships with key opinion leaders most key opinion leaders do not want to work with cryptocurrency apps because of scam or a previous scam ma will help us unlock those doors so for

us it's trust on all sides on all levels for users for partners for koss multiple opportunities Maybe very briefly, Marine. >> Yeah, I think uh for us it just opens up the institutional market and on the retail side I think the shift is already happening. We see it in the data. Uh customers are moving trading venues because Mikar just sets an entirely new framework for what products can look like and I think global players are struggling with that. So very interesting to see how the retail play will work out in the next two years.

Mr. >> For us, I think Mika is very important for us uh as a key to open the long-term strategy, especially for the key market like Europe. Uh we got the Mikar license on May 28th and I think we prove ourselves to be a very reliable partner for all the financial institutions for the family office also for some of brokers. We can make it and we have a professional service we can definitely build up. uh and I I mean use my our founder like Ben's word is we want we are changing the world and I think we definitely can start from Europe.

Um for us it's definitely the passporting ability. Uh whereas before uh without Mica you had to go and seek a license or a regulatory approval in each of the 30 different EA member states. Now thanks to Micah uh we can just get a get it in one home uh member state and then passported across all the 30 EA countries which I think from a cost accessibility uh and passporting ability to to reach 450 million users throughout Europe. I think for for OKX that is the the biggest advantage. >> Well thank you very much to each one of you. I have learned a lot from you in this panel. This been extremely valuable. Thank you for all of us for this whole house uh attending to this panel. I hope you liked it as well and

we will we will be around. Um let's welcome the next um talk. >> Thank you.