Meridian Capital DAO Founder Shares How He's Building a Liquidity Hub on Robinhood Chain

Transcript

GMGM. Welcome back to Fully Vested. I'm your host, Defi Dave, here with Patrick. Uh this is Fully Vested, sponsored by Defi Llama. Uh if you're new here, make sure you go ahead and subscribe on all platforms. Follow us. We do all these kinds of interviews going deep into DeFi. Once again, covering this DeFi revival. And something that has caught my eye uh in this revival, in this rise of all of us rising together is Meridian by PMBI. Uh many of you might be familiar with Lord Pembi from the Barry ecosystem in in the yeet days, but uh now he's back better than ever creating what I call the uh the curve wars but for options. So let's give it to Penvi.

Penvi, how's it going? >> Hey guys, thanks so much for having me on. Uh it's very exciting to be here. Sorry. >> Yeah, of course. >> You're good. >> You're good. Happy happy to have you here. >> Yeah. No, we really have Yeah, happy to have you. Before we get into that, I got to say I liked what Dave said, DeFi revival. It's got like a nice ring to it. >> Def. Yeah. I >> I kind I kind of picture like guys sitting in a circle drumming when I when I hear that, [laughter] >> but >> a bunch of D5 guys drumming. >> Yeah. Yeah. Genuine >> slightly offbeat.

>> A scene that that nobody wants to see, but um uh No, I I like the sound of that. >> Yeah. Well, you know, for people that are may not be familiar with you and your work and your journey, uh, Peny, can you just like do a little bit of introduction of who you are, you know, what you built, uh, and what what makes you excited about D5 right now? >> Okay. Well, there's a lot to get into. For a bit on me first, I have a background in CryptoVC, advising projects, doing mechanism design, and DeFi. Uh, I've built a few protocols. Most recently, I built a project on bar chain called ye and then another called Baker DAO. Um uh you know that was very interesting and a lot of fun. And yeah,

now I'm back building something on Robin Hood and it's called Meridian. Meridian. Yeah. Uh before we get to Meridian, uh what are your thoughts on all the the bear devs and builders coming over to Robin Hood these years later? I mean, I made that meme I think last week or two weeks ago of of uh what is it? Ninja Turtles where like it's Smokeoky as you know the the sensei and everyone's like a little child and now like grown up and they're like carrying things forward. So I'm curious what your thoughts are on like that migration basically and I'm Yeah, go ahead. >> Yeah, I'm I'm loving it. So one thing I think that really made the devs on beer stand out was their willingness to experiment with novel DeFi mechanisms

because that's the kind of idea barrier chain itself was built on. Uh so it attracted a lot of these types um and it was a fun playground for these D5 experiments and then when like I think a lot of the catalyst for what happened on Robin Hood was a lot of experimentation with unis swap before hooks some other novel things you know we didn't just have pure meme coins like you normally do in other ecosystems there was actually some cool innovation happening uh I remember reading about maybe something called something like called Tufi or something like that or Tupool which was a hook of unis swap's dual hook that basically rehypothecates

liquidity across a lending market and an AMM and saying oh that's pretty cool you know people are aware of this stuff and they're building it on Robin Hood and I think naturally that attracted a lot of types of people that would build on barrier Jade >> yeah know it's interesting seeing that and honestly I remember early in the barrier days, going to all the conferences and talking to all the builders and all of them were insanely talented and had a lot of creative ideas. Um, and it's cool to see how, you know, a lot of them like a good amount of them didn't leave and they continued experimenting, trying new things and all a lot of times things are just right place, right time, right moment, new primitives come out, like you said, you swap before stock tokens and now you're seeing all all this magic happen. Um,

and now we have uh you up next with Meridian uh which I've been keeping track of literally since it was an idea. You know, we talked you because you were playing around with a few ideas uh but you're like no this is the one. So out of all the ideas that you had and you had quite a few of them why Meridian? Um I I think it's a lot to do with the stuff you touched on like there's this confluence of factors where there's new DeFi primitives we can use and also stock tokens and you know meme coins paired against stock tokens and like for me as a D5 participant. I was looking at all of this and I was like wow this is so exciting. This is so bullish. I wish I had some vehicle where I could bet on

this all. Uh essentially >> I wish I could bet on this all. [gasps] >> Yeah. >> Where can I go all in? >> Exactly. Because currently, you know, if you if you want to bet on this stuff, you're you know, you're track you're tracking you're buying and getting in and out of multiple tokens. I'm a terrible trader. I hate trading. Um, I just like building. I like to just buy one thing and hold it. I'd way rather do that. And I I didn't feel that vehicle existed yet. probably pawns you could argue is a good proxy for the ecosystem, but I wanted something where I could long LP volumes as well.

>> Got it. What do you mean by long LP? You mean LP volumes of all the tokens that in the Meridian eco? >> Yeah, essentially like, you know, I think volatility is high and will increase as we go further into the bull run. I believe we're in a bull run. Um, >> he said it, PMI said it. We're in a bull run. You heard it from him. He also said he's a terrible trader. So >> he also did say he's a terrible trader. So you know take that as you will. >> Yeah. Um so yeah it it was born of that. As for the option stuff you described earlier. It's a novel DeFi primitive me and others have been thinking of and we went to use the Meridian brand to launch

this uh primitive as well. >> And can we go into now what Meridian is? what exactly you're building. >> Sure. Yeah. So, there's two parts. There's the immediate term and there's the longer term. >> Okay. >> Longer term is the option stuff and we'll get to that. Uh in the immediate term, Meridian is something that captures a lot of kind of the DGEN D5 D5 summer era and that's reflected in our launch mechanism. So, we're launching using a tomb style Genesis form. Users can deposit assets.

>> Oh, wow. >> Um, >> yeah. >> Is this what you're talking about? Sorry. I I was looking at it as you were >> as you were talking. I figured figured I'd show it. >> Pretty juicy. Um, well, even if you I guess you got 10 mil 10.69 million TVL pre-launch. >> Nice work. >> Pretty juicy APRs here. Um, I know these are kind of it's a nice projection. G's at 376K. That's insane. >> Yeah. That's like a pretty large portion of the UFG market cap, right?

>> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now it's at I think that 2.5 mil at for >> Yeah. >> By the way, that's a that's like what 20% of the circulating supply. >> Yeah. 20%. >> That's what I mean. Yeah. That's like pretty. What did I What did I message you? What I messaged you like I think I could get like I think like talking to people like I think like 20% and like there's 20% of the UFG supply there. though. Wow. Thank you, Pamy. >> No, thank you. You got it in. There's more TV than cash. >> Yeah, it's called business development, folks. It's called business development.

>> He's developing the business. >> Developing business. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But yeah, it does feel very like to like Yamslike. Um, that's an insane APR for uh what is it? Netnet. Oh, no. Oh, were you doing your >> I was You can play around with the price. So, I pulled it. I put it up to the max just to >> you know just do some do some hope here say what >> yeah I was like wait a second >> just just imagine just imagine >> just imagine >> yeah I mean a lot of these farms right if the token is pre-TGE they're just plucking a valuation out of thin air and giving you an APR so >> yeah I'd rather let people do their own moon math as opposed to us doing it for them

>> no I think that's very honest yeah so these are for anyone watching these are not like known official APRs this is just a projection based on whatever you think the the price is going to be. >> Correct. >> So where Meridian gets interesting is that the 0.1 like the 10 cents price per MCD is the launch price, right? And it's the price where depositors in this Genesis farm at the end of the farming period, they'll have the option to convert into the token. >> So it effectively acts like a pre-sale and if you participate in that pre-sale, you acquire the token at that launch price. 10 cents and Meridian is going to raise capital from these conversions.

>> And so what makes this so interesting as a DeFi experiment is like all this money raised gets twacked into the token over the first 60 days. So yes, it launches at 10 cents, but over the next 60 days, all of this goes into the token and is used to like compound liquidity for it. So let's say Meridian raises 1 million after conversions, right? 500K of that is literally just used for market buys of the token like DC8 over 60 days and the other 500k is used for liquidity pairing. So for example, on day one, what's 500 over 60?

Let's say it's 9K or something. I don't I can't do math, but let's say it's 9K. So 9K market buys the token every every day and is paired against 9K of liquidity at the current price. So every day more money is going into the token and liquidity is growing larger at higher and higher valuations. So it makes this a very like attractive mechanism for buyers to convert their deposits which is what is trying to incentivize here.

>> Okay. What do we have here? What we have here is the token that people are actually acquiring via the farming and conversions. They're not acquiring naked MCD. They're requiring GMCD or Genesis MCD. >> This is a vested version of MCD that vests over 7 days. But like if you play around here with the graph, oh, we've we've lost Patrick. Um but if you play around with the graph uh you can choose like a 3-day vest for example and you forfeit some of your tokens which are burnt.

People can also play this game where hey I want a faster vest and but I'll choose to lose some tokens and those get burnt. >> Got it. Okay. So you so the are the two options two options. One of them is this vest option, right? And you get to choose um how long the token vests for whether you know if you want to get right away you get less tokens if you let it invest longer you get more tokens right >> correct >> and then the is the other option an airdrop >> so the other option so yeah let's say you deposit in the forms you're forming some GMCD at the end of the forms you just say you know what I don't want to convert I'm not so bullish meridian

that's fine you know you can get your deposit back minus deposit fees and You get the you still keep the GMCD you earned. >> Uh and does that GMC vest? >> Yes, of course you can redeem that as well. >> All G all GMC vests. >> Yes, correct. >> Okay. >> Uh so like even if you don't want to buy that's fine. You get your money back and you get your farming rewards. So it's designed to be very attractive um to buyers. Like it's supposed to be very friendly. Uh give people optionality you know. But if you are bullish, you can choose at the end to convert some or all of your deposit. You don't have to deposit like convert all into more GMC at this low value.

>> Oh, you can convert your deposit. >> Exactly. So the deposit like depositing in the Genesis farm is kind of like the white list to be able to convert. >> Oh, so you'll be like the first one to like get get in. You're you're in on the ground floor. >> Exactly. >> Ah, [sighs] I get it. This is like in the US when uh these there's a trend of like community banks going public and before the community banks go public they raise money from their local uh bank holders or local depositors and so you get like these like random banks in Massachusetts or New Jersey where like they'll like you can use your CD depositor get in and then all of a sudden you get you get into a stock early and then it goes public and then

it you know you it goes up and you're like what what the hell just I I no joke know someone who's in his 70s that has done extremely well for himself almost entirely by almost entirely by investing in community banks. Yeah. Like things like that and also just like buying them based on their fundamentals like sort of value investing like it's it's kind of a wild market because there is a >> not to get sidetracked but there's like a community of people who basically >> they just like go around the country like trying to open bank accounts. It's actually hilarious. [laughter] >> Yeah. Or like have you seen there's that guy I think it's called like dirt sheet community banks where it's like he goes and he like tries the cookies in all of them and it's like the cookie is a signal in like

how good the customer service is in the bank. >> Really the cookie. >> Yeah. So he has like some uristic where it's like but but I think it it was like something counterintuitive. I might be butchering this but it was something counterintuitive where it's like if the cookie is stale it means the customer service is not good and the bank's likely to be acquired for a premium or something like that. >> Oh. Oh, because it's there's a premium. Okay, got it. >> Yeah, because I think because if it gets acquired, you get like a payout. I It's I'm probably messing it up a little, but it's it's something it was something counterintuitive like that. >> That's that's really funny. Uh, where's I don't know where Pen went. Pen had a little break, but Patrick, what are your thoughts on Meridian so far?

>> I think it's interesting, you know, that DJ and me might be putting some Robin Hood assets in there. We'll see. >> Um, >> I've been farming. I've been farming. You've been farming. Well, it looks like so hopefully by the time this this episode launches there's still at least like a day left. We'll push it looks like there's there's almost four days right now. >> There's like like over 3 days left. >> Over 3 days left. So this by the time this episode launches there should still be like a day or so left. If you're watching watching this episode right when it comes out just know that like there's probably a time limit. We have no affiliation. At least I don't. I don't know.

>> Dave does. Um yes, we don't have any affiliation. >> I'm just a friend. I'm a friend. >> He's a friend and a farmer. >> I'm a friend of the program. Friendly farmer, you might say. >> Friendly plumber. plumber. [laughter] >> Friendly plumber. >> Um but uh no, I think that's cool. I'm curious to get into like how it's going to work once it goes live. So since um you know the genesis is of course important to the success but isn't >> isn't everything. >> Yeah. So we covered the genesis the conversions when the protocol is live. I spoke about how these buybacks are going to be used and they're going to keep building liquidity. So Meridian is going to end up with a lot of protocol owned liquidity and a lot of different token like pairings like MCD USDG, MCD ETH, MCD Nvidia, MCD Shroom,

all kinds of tokens. MCD UFG, right? Because now there's some of that in the treasury. Um, and all these things just mean MCD is a bit of a liquidity network and um, you know, can earn high APRs just off LP. So it would kind of be like the the Meridian Treasury, you know, earning revenue on its holdings already and a portion of this revenue as well is used for buybacks. So in the short term, Meridian is just going to be generating revenue, becoming a liquidity network and buying back the token just as one product. So holders of MCD get exposure to kind of all all of

this plumbing. the plum for the plumbers. Plumb plumbing for the plumbers. >> Plumbing for the plumbers. >> Yeah, I'm getting tongue tied here. >> Um and yeah, so we are working on a few products uh that we want to launch in the near term. We want to create um dynamic fee hooks we will deploy. There's been other dynamic fee hooks deployed in the past. >> What's a dynamic fee hook? Like what do you mean? like for a unis swap v4 pool with a hook that adjusts the pool fee based on >> volatility for other factors or this kind of thing, right? And >> like people have created implementations

of this before, but we have our own opinions and stances on these things that we want to implement. And beyond that, earlier we've talked about the covered call. So the grand vision for Meridian going forward is this covered call building that will allow Meridian to sell covered call options on its own token or other treasury assets. So what this means with an example is like I can go hey Patrick and Dave like MCD token costs $1 today. I'll you you can buy the option to buy this the MCD token from me at like 80 cents or let's say a dollar sorry

because you think next week MCD is going to trade at two bucks. So in a week from now if it trades at $2 you can say yo pen I'm going to exercise that option I'm going to pay a dollar and get MCD tokens that are worth $2 and I've paid $1 for them. So you've made money, but if MC the price of MCD goes down, you're like, I don't want to exercise this option. So you just don't and you keep your money. But in order to have this privilege of choosing to exercise it or not, you pay a bit of upfront yield. So let's pay you say you pay $10 for the option to purchase $100 worth of MCD at a certain price. So this lets the Meridian Treasury uh get more upfront yield. And where it's interesting is

when we let governance dictate which tokens are acquired via these covered calls. So let's say UFG for example has a governance position in Meridian. Uh they can influence governance to start writing and selling covered calls to acquire UFG token and LP it because Meridian acquires tokens and it LPS them against MCD. >> Keep talking. keep talking. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> So, that's what we're doing the short term. The covered calls is just another instrument that helps the the Dow or the Treasury do this going forward and cement it [clears throat] on a liquidity hub.

>> So Dave, you know that UFG, he's like, "Hey, I want MCD like I want Meridian to start acquiring UFG and LPing it." Uh, so he gets the governance position or he bribes the governance holders. They vote to issue this trunch of covered calls. And if Dave figures out that the price of bribing is less than the amount of liquidity UFG would end up having because Meridian is also pairing that liquidity against pre-existing Treasury assets.

So it's another liquidity primitive. We've had kind of like curve style emissions. We've had bonding used by M. We've had like obviously pool two forming uh that was big in 2020 and I think this is another cool primitive that people can use and it's also >> yeah and it's it's another instrument of bootstrapping liquidity essentially and the nice thing is is that let's say with curve for example you're paying for curve emissions but if the curve token tanks then you're like the value of your incentives is also tanking because

that's what's incent LPS. >> In this case, since it's a covered call and you don't have and the market doesn't have to exercise these options that they're buying, if the price tanks, it's like nothing happened basically. >> That's huge. >> Yeah. And the people that made the bribe can recoup some value that they would have otherwise spent and gotten wrecked on. >> Yeah. And what's interesting about this is since you're basically raising liquidity to write these options and that's I feel like that's always been the cold sore problem with options onchain. It's just there isn't the liquidity there but like you guys are like doing this program and you'll be able to do all that uh when the time comes. Yeah, I think but the way I think

about Meridian anyway is not as an options protocol because the we'll be using is very simple like technically it's an option >> but it's a liquidity bootstrapping mechanism >> uh that look like an >> this is important okay >> yeah like it's not some you know some place people come to trade options necessarily >> no it's a place uh to grow and expand liquidity Correct. And all this liquidity, you know, boost revenue for Meridian, for MCD holders, is hopefully value accreative to the whole network of tokens within the Meridian ecosystem.

>> Yeah, I'm curious because another liquidity hub that's on Robin Hood chain is Shroom. Uh that has come about. Um what are some differences and similarities between Shroom and Meridian? Okay, so Shroom is is an awesome coin that like LPS its treasury, generates revenue, and creates more value for um for token holders. Meridian also does this. I mean, Meridian is also going to be LPing. In the case of Meridian though, there's a lot of different moving parts. And the way I think about it is that the treasury has capital. I think that capital should be earning yield. And I

think the best way to do so right now is by LP. >> Yeah. >> I mean that's all that's always the question is how do I make idle assets productive? What is the best way uh to earn yield uh in a riskadjusted manner? Uh so yeah Patrick what are what are your thoughts here? What do you what do you I wonder what you're marinating over there. I was marinating on um uh 10-year Treasury yields going so high right now to be honest. Um but um no, I mean this is this is uh as as far as uh Mian Capital. No, I mean I think this is pretty cool. It's like it hearkens back to kind of the golden days, golden years

of of DeFi. Um >> we're bring DeFi revival. >> We're bring it back. And and I think it's interesting what you said about historically there being liquidity issues with options on chain because it's it's like probably the probably the one of the biggest financial primitives that no one's fully cracked yet as far as like actually getting it to work at scale on chain. Um, I mean I'm like as about as crypto native as they come. Like I get paid in crypto and I trade options and I typically withdraw money to Robin Hood to trade options because it's like there's not as many good there's there's really no good uh onchain alternative for what I want to trade.

>> Yeah, I've seen derive being mentioned more and more in the timeline. >> I I definitely see derive more too. Um they seem to be cracking the code at least. But um I'm you know there's I don't Yeah, we'll see what happens this cycle. It's live on Robin Hood chain or no it's on mainet. I don't know. I haven't looked into it. There's only so many things you can look into. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Uh um Okay, >> we'll tell you in a second. >> Yeah, >> I'll tell you in a second. Using the number one dedicated crypto search, Llama search.

>> Oh, what what is it? [laughter] Defi Llama has like a search thing to to um >> they have AI, they have search. >> If only somewhere. Oh, wait. You can down below in the description. Go subscribe. >> Huge. Go sign up. >> Huge. >> Huge for the program. >> Huge for the program. Uh so I'm seeing it's it's um derive is on it's on a few different chains. I'm trying to find a fe. Okay. The option premium is on Oh, they have their own derive chain. They have a derive chain.

>> Dive chain. >> I didn't even know them, >> but they're they're also on Hyperlquid, but their option premium is listed as being on derive chain. >> Uh, >> interesting. >> Yeah, that is interesting. Anyways, not to get sidetracked. Um, carry on. >> Yeah. Peni. So, outside of Meridian, what other projects excite you on the Robin Hood chain >> and why? Um I have cliche takes. I like netnet.

>> Oh yes, me too. >> Yeah. [laughter] Velocity. Yeah. Not only is it cool, I'm in awe of the founder Al Dudlap and the rate at which they ship products. >> Like it makes me think, yeah, they h he has a very sophisticated orchestration system set up for his agents. uh like this kind of shipping like I think he seems like someone who's a master of orchestration essentially like >> what do you mean you can just like just tell agents what to do and then boom it's out >> exactly and building harnesses to enable that like once you I have another Twitter account that I use more for tech

and AI Twitter not crypto Twitter and there's a lot more content there and yeah the rabbit hole goes very very deep if if you go down that rabbit hole Um, >> sorry, >> that must be it. Yeah, so netnet. >> Yes, Netnet Orbio. Uh, I like uh also high quality product. So many people have like tried to do in in inference marketplaces, but this one actually looks like it works and the UX is not boit like it's actually really nice. Um, got to plug the United Founders Group, you know, just ship cool loans today, which I love >> from your suggestion.

>> Yeah. >> Oh, well, thank you so much. >> Um, ideas are cheap, you know, it's all about shipping them. >> Yeah. >> What else? Uh, let's take a quick look. Uh, there's this thing called Meridian I'm very excited about. >> Um, off the top of my head, I I'm not too too sure. What about you guys? Yeah, I mean you named some of mine. Um, I like Pawns, obviously. I mean, Ponds is the foundation of it all. Um, and I think you got to give Robin Hood credit where credit's due, uh, for making this ecosystem possible. And as Aussie said on an an earlier interview of ours almost two months ago, uh, they did a good job of being neutral and allowing

the best, the brightest, uh, to come to the top and succeed. So, I think Robin Hood did a good job of having all these different projects come up. Um, I mean, what else is there? There's >> there's UFO UFG project called UFG I heard about. >> Yeah, obvious. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you you got to think outside the box. Um, yeah, there's Quotrons, you know, they're doing like the ERC 404. That sounds pretty interesting. [snorts] Um, I like Shroom. I think Shroom's a cool concept. I love the idea just like of, you know, fungal. It's very it's very witty of them to like call themselves shroom.

>> Um >> um standard reserve is interesting because and once someone described them as M with master nodes I'm like oh okay I just that's just such a funny concept to me. Um um but I think I think we're there's still a lot of design space to be had uh on Robin Hood chain especially around stock tokens especially around indexes. Um I I think index is cool. Um but I do think there's a lot of opportunity there in building indexes and everything. So uh yeah there's there's a lot more to be built.

There's a lot more to be built. Another project uh that I feel doesn't get uh a lot of love is Rialto. Uh Rialto is the prop AMM on Robin Hood that facilitates a lot of these like stock tokens coming on chain. Uh and why they're so cool also is like propm are usually just like a market maker that clears onchain, right? And they're managing their own book offchain. Uh they they are kind of a marketplace of market makers who can come in uh also and manage >> marketplace of market makers. They make markets for market makers. Just say that five times fast. [gasps] >> Yeah, that's a tricky one. Uh but yeah,

I think it's just one of those essential pieces of plumbing for a chain like Robin Hood. >> Oh yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah. And I'm hearing things like, you know, usually when someone launches a chain or an L2, like you need the canonical V3 DEX, the lending market, the launchpad, you know, all these things we take for staples of any ecosystem. Now since so many chains are starting to focus on RWAs, like prop AMMs are becoming one of these staples. Uh so like Inc. for example, is is really pushing and I think they've secured a a prop amm. Uh, you know, Salana's had these prop AMMs for a while, >> a long time. Yeah.

>> Yeah. 50% of all spot volume on Salana is facilitated by propm, which is a is a really interesting stat. Not Not too many people know. >> Wow. Dropped knowledge on us. >> Yeah. >> Sponsored by Defy Lama. >> Sponsored by Defy Lama. >> Sponsored Brought to you. Brought to you by Defy Llama. brought to you. Yeah. As long as >> it's all it's it's all the same. Yeah. >> None of us are. >> I just love the game. >> Yeah. [laughter] None of us are. >> Um I just miss doing podcasts. I remember when I had you on my podcast before PenBBY like two, three years ago.

That was fun. >> Yeah, I remember. Good times. >> Great times. Yeah. Wait, Patrick, what are you gonna say? >> I don't know. Nothing. I wasn't going to say anything. >> I'm just I'm just I'm just sitting sitting and learning. >> You're sitting and learning about Meridian and the Robin Hood chain. >> You got to hop on. >> Patrick is busy. >> I'm on Robin Hood chain. You You don't know that, but I've been I've been active on Robin Hood chain recently. >> What have you Okay, Patrick, what have you been doing on Robin Hood chain? >> I don't We'll see. We [laughter] >> We'll see. We got it. Patrick, we have >> I I don't want people to figure out my wallet.

>> All right. All right. Well, you know, Patrick, we have homework. You should come back next week. >> Yeah, I'll I'll come back. I'll come back with something. >> Okay. What's What's one protocol you've touched? No one's going to figure out your wallet. >> Yeah. >> Oh, ponds. Ponds. Yeah. >> Ponds. Pots. >> Okay. >> That's boring. Boring. Everyone's touched ponds, right? [laughter] >> Um >> Yeah. >> No, no. I I I I I genuinely could and and will be doing more. I was um uh yeah, I've been so focused on trading trading uranium outside of crypto that I kind of missed missed the early gold rush here.

>> Yeah. Pambi, uh Patrick's a big uranium guy. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. >> What's going on in uranium land? >> Oh, I don't want to get I always I always people always roast me for getting the podcast sidetracked on on uranium. Um >> can we have one uranian update? Just one. We'll cut you off. >> Just one. Okay. Uh well, the the um interesting thing is so so a lot of Well, this is this shouldn't be a surprise, but like the builders for nuclear plants reported like a huge huge increase in in um interest year-over-year. So, that's like pretty big because you uranium is going to be

downstream of that. Um the tough thing with uranium is that it like often times these contracts are like secured for years out. So it's kind of like a um I don't there's there's there's like a time delay, right? In terms of in terms of when the actual demand will increase when uh when when like price increases but then you also need to take into account the fact that like at some point miners will respond by increasing production. And that's the same for all commodities, right? Like if a price goes up, then eventually miners respond by increasing supply and then it kind of >> this is why I didn't want to talk about it because I I can tell it's it's uh it's going to get boring for people

really quickly. Um >> but um >> all commodities are the same. That's that's our one takeaway. Um okay, let's get back to DeFi. Um I think we can wrap up here. Uh and yeah, where can uh Pandy Where can people find you? Where can people uh find Meridian if they want to learn more? Um I I'll I'll say all that but first uh yeah I think the way we get Patrick on chain is by tokenizing uranium. >> Uranium. We got tok it. Oh >> people have there there's a couple of them. Yeah. >> Oh really? Which which >> they need uranium on Robin Hood chain.

That's >> so weirdly that there there's actually a big one on um on uh Tasos. I think there was there was there was one that was on Salana um that I think kind of wound down. Um, you can also you can also trade per it on hyperlquid. >> Not bad. What's what's the alpha? Should we long uranium, Patrick? >> Yeah, >> I I I'm I'm personally well I'm I I have like longdated call options for some of the miners. Uh, but that's like me looking for, you know, as much beta as I can as I can squeeze out of it. Um but I mean yeah if if you if if you're if you're going to go back like you know not just updates this week then we have the US announcing building um uh

shipping uh like what's it called um cargo ships cargo ships that are powered by like small nuclear reactors. You have announce announcement of spaceships that are powered by nuclear reactors. Uh and then you have a number of startups now that are building these like small modular reactors and a lot of them are are um being targeted for deals with data centers where they'll have like their own off-grid reactors rather than making deals with municipalities. Um cuz you know there's a lot of push back now. Um so and you have just this year alone I think see I I actually track it on my um I have my own website that I maintain for for >> you change the pasi uranian law >> for I I have my own website that I maintain for uranium but there's been

one two three four um five five companies have gone critical with modular reactors this year. So you so you have like this race to basically build small modular reactors. >> Can we get them on Robin Hood chain? >> Can we get them on Robin Hood chain? Well, you know what would be interesting is is like like most of these they're uh they're private companies. So like what we should have is is um like we like we have with Anthropic and all of that, right? Tokenized versions of of um private of secondhand shares cuz like it kind of sucks that you can track all these companies. I mean even think about like OpenAI and Enthropic, right? You could track it, but like there's no way to invest it if you're a normal person.

Yeah. >> Yeah. Got it. And so >> nice. So, wait, Penv, you said uh >> Yeah. >> So, um Well, also Patrick, you should publish that website. I check it. Sounds interesting. >> I have it. It gets like a 100 hits a day trying. >> Wait, what's the website called? >> The website is yellowcakeanalytics.com. >> yellowcakeanalytics.com. You heard it here first. >> You heard it here first. [laughter] for all your uranium alpha. >> No, I I you know this this is this is this is what I do for fun. You know, some people like >> you know go skydiving, some people do art liquidity. I I I build uh build financial data websites for fun.

>> Nice. >> That's my co-host. >> Yeah. And uh yeah, if you want to, you know, follow the the the podcast fully vested, the DeFi Llama podcast, Defi Llama podcast, make sure you follow us on Twitter X, subscribe to us on YouTube comment like subscribe all that fun stuff. Uh, make sure you follow me at Defi Dave. I'll just plug you UFG2, uftgi, because we're all plugging our our things. So, >> can I plug? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now your turn. Now your turn.

>> Okay. Thanks. Yes. were called Meridian Capital, Meridium Capdow on Twitter. Uh, deposits are now live. Conversions will start on Sunday. So, you have until Sunday to farm Sunday. Sunday on Sunday to convert. Uh, >> 1300 UTC. >> So, guys, Sunday. So, whenever this is released, you have till Sunday. All right. Thank you so much, Pembi. Uh we hope to see you soon.

>> Yeah.