THE MERGE Live from Full Node in Berlin

Transcript

you want to be on a live stream you want to be on a live stream yeah yeah [Music]

hey oh [Music]

[Music] [Music] [Music]

all right so um so i'm here in berlin i'm at full node and uh we're gonna get a couple of reactions here um just before the merge and after the merge happens um there's a lot of people here um i came in around seven and there were folks that had been here all night still drinking beers uh the dapnode team was here as well uh making sure everything uh runs smoothly for the merge and more and more people are coming in um this of course is the gnosis office uh so there's no sustained space here and so a lot of other teams based here as well so for those who don't know full node is

a blockchain working space uh here in berlin and historically the cosmos team uh was based here gnosis has always made us here been based here as well um lots of lots of other folks uh have their offices here so it's it's definitely a a shelling point for crypto in um in berlin and you know definitely one of the places that i spent a lot of time over the last couple years uh you know brian also had a desk here for many years since a very very significant place for me to be during the merge um yeah a lot of great memories here and also epicenter has a studio here there's a there's a studio where many many episode episodes have been

recorded from so um we're gonna go around see if anybody wants to talk to me didn't get a lot of sleep so coffee is coffee's good right now all right

hey hey so if you're live you're on live stream yeah yeah yeah like five minutes ago this live stream did not exist yeah yeah so this is like this is kind of a new setup here that i've got so i can do live streams um from anyway from anywhere on the go so we'll see how this works yeah i'm impressed yeah so yeah you're paul from morpho yeah exactly and you guys are building uh sort of i guess i'd describe it as like a peer-to-peer lending layer that leverages liquidity from ave and compound in order to have more uh like efficient matching of um lenders and borrowers uh very much in this uh sort of you know

yeah yeah please please uh tell me more about it absolutely so mofo is a from a user perspective it's lending protocol so it's about lending and borrowing crypto assets the same way you would do it on on rv or compound for example and the difference is that we sit on top so the mofo is built on top of existing landing protocols like like ave you have avid then you have more for ib on top if you have compound then you have more for compound on top and the idea is that we introduce a peer-to-peer matching system that is going to increase your matching efficiency so your your capital efficiency so the the the idea is that if you go to have a website you have a very low

lending rate a very high borrowing rate and that mofo is going to match your peer-to-peer in the middle so just to give you an idea uh currently on on usdc on ave i think it's 0.2 to land and something like 2 to borrow with more for you get one percent for lenders and one percent for for borrowers so it's better for lenders and uh better for borrowers as well and the idea is that small for preserves the exact same risk model the exact same liquidity than the so it's a underlying mathematical improvement of trending liquidity protocols basically um why did you come here this morning well obviously uh

so initially we were with the morphe team we wanted to go to the eastern foundation offices yeah uh to celebrate the merge but then they kind of getting crowded out there so that there is a lot of people and uh you have also the client devs that are regrouping and more focusing than putting so we're like okay maybe we should not deserve them and come to footnote to party with everybody rather than you know bothering everybody that is doing the serious stuff so yeah so we're currently at full nodes in berlin and uh yeah enjoying the merge so what's what do you think is going to happen in uh i guess a few minutes my take is that it's going to take much

longer before we actually happen to have the merge because miners are going to progressively uh well you know unplug the machines and and so the ash rate is going to go down this is my personal guess so yeah i think it's gonna it's it's we're supposed to be like at three a.m now it's at eight and even 8 30 probably so so we'll see but my guess is it's going to keep extending uh definitely we'll still be here tonight but yeah maybe a a little longer than expected but i think most of it will go right i think if there are problems we won't see

them like right now yeah most likely you know it can be a little desync and like in in two weeks so in three weeks this is this is what's happening with most of the shadow forks that happens it's like you you you wait a week two week and you realize that some of those have these things it's not such a big deal so yeah i don't think like i really don't think some uh like something was going to go wrong on the layer one on d5 yeah let's talk a little bit about what's going on deeper you were telling me earlier about ave and and the the fact that the lending is maxed out uh yeah absolutely yeah so i i'd say there are two main rigs three main risk actually

for d5 first risk is um protocols that rely on block time and uh so with the merge you have like differences between uh the proof of work version and a proof of stake version in terms of you know time between blocks it's now fixed and it's like much more definite and so it can have a undetermined impact on some protocols that rely on this metric uh so that's the first thing it's not the case of many proposals to be honest yeah second thing is that you have a lot of people farming east power so they're borrowing a lot on on ave and compounds which introduces a very very high utilization of the

capital and this is very dangerous for for ave because at the moment you can't withdraw on ave and you can't you come with your earth and you can't liquidate positions that are collateralized by ease yeah so what it means is that if the ease pumps like by a lot in just following the merge what's probably going to happen is that positions that were collateralized by if sorry they were borrowing you so if you're borrowing eve yeah and the the east is uh no sorry if you're borrowing uh someone something else like us you're borrowing usc

uh and using ether's collateral yeah yeah so if it is uh the price of ease goes up then you're fine however if the merge is not like for some reason you know going well and ease drops then uh you may end up having some some problems uh with avi and a lot of bad tabs i would not say that would be critical to the protocol but i'm just saying that it's a danger everybody's focusing on uh in the learning space i had yeah are you so is it possible right now to swap your collateral like using something like instadap can you you can't even do anything yeah no so the idea is that uh at the moment uh you you can't you just can't withdraw if you can't withdraw eve from it that has been

actually like collateralized there is no more if you have a smart contract right yeah because because because people have like pulled all of that out to mine yeah proof of work yeah absolutely and yeah and actually avid did pose the borrow so technically people were not supposed to borrow anymore but people withdraw because people are scared of the potential you know impact of merge on on landing protocols yeah so yeah you have this sort of panic effect on avi i i personally think it's going to be all right but uh i mean i was like such events are so singular and can be very chaotic so yeah i don't know and then the third class of protocols that can be uh sort of endangered is

protocols with a lot of off-chain infrastructure yeah probably dex aggregators uh well i mean it's just an intuition and there's nothing like scientifically to to back that but you have the idea that probably if you have enough chain infrastructure you want to make sure that it's you know still is working with the new version of ease which is not immediate right you have to yeah so there's a lot of um you know like having up update all of your integrations i think car swap is here and they're prepared to know in case something is is happening but i mean they've been preparing for a while yeah it's like layers of complexity added on top of you know the things that

can go wrong with clients yeah absolutely so it's abstracted many things so yeah again i'm not so worried about those things but we'll see you know it's just like how does the merge affect you guys long term like i mean how have you been have you been preparing for the merge and what are the long-term effects on a protocol yeah so we made a a study on what could be the impact of the merge uh and uh to be honest we did not find anything except that you know uh probably the um the prices are going so from the application layer it's gonna be all right but from the what i call the economic layer you don't know what's gonna happen if you know for example east is going to be utilized at 100 percent and then ease

drops or like there is a ton of scenarios due to just prices that could take down uh a lending protocol so very edge cases but uh you know this still exists for compound for ave and so yeah that's kind of the things we were looking at but again those are very hedge case overall i think that everything is going to go fine cool and yeah well i'm pretty confident what time is it do you know what time it is i don't know like yeah it's eight yeah so it should be in 30 minutes probably maybe less okay actually all right thanks yeah thank you yeah thanks man

[Music] all right so that was paul with morpho we're gonna see if we can find other folks to talk to do you want to have a quick chat or is that a good time

on the epicenter livestream all right let me get a chair uh wait one second [Music] [Music] um we'll see we'll see if this works here sorry for the noise all right so i'm here with martin copeland

um when's the words happening what's the date what's the time now 40 minutes 40 minutes but uh i think uh 10 minutes ago it was also 40 minutes yeah it keeps getting pushed back yeah so yeah 35 yeah yeah so um yeah so we're here at full node do you guys how have you guys been preparing for the merge and how excited are you right now i'm yeah pretty excited yeah some preparations kind of some [Music] kind of trying to to reduce risks here and there before they can fix this replay replay

protector there will probably be this other chain and that there's a few things where this might cause harm for users and we're trying to mitigate those but other than that you think it'll go smoothly well so i mean like what you know what's the impact here for for gnosis chain like i know i know you guys will uh do the merge in a couple weeks and you're updating like uh once once you've seen how things go on main net it'll be uh perhaps more safe for you guys to do the merger but like what's the impact of the merge uh on gnosis chain today if any like

yeah yeah no i mean of course for us the part so we we had been working on the merge on north channels for a long time um merged some i mean our main test net successfully so that's running on proof stake but ultimately we decided to uh yeah kind of do the merge after ethereum simply because we felt um and i i think like if something goes wrong today then it will probably not be the network itself so i think i'm pretty sure um the the actual network itself will run smoothly but what is quite possible is that surrounding infrastructure like block explorers yeah

um rpc endpoints even like kind of data on top like like the graph yeah there it certainly could be that there will be hiccups and that was also for us the reason um to uh to yeah kind of push our emerge a bit back to kind of give those kind of surrounding infrastructure a bit more time um but yeah i mean even even even of course the good thing is um even if those things are um yeah will maybe not be available for a short time certainly nothing

nothing catastrophic yeah so like wallets could maybe have a hard time communicating with the chain because rpc endpoints are not properly you know like pointing to the chain or i mean some like off-chain services or like that make use of off-chain infrastructure could um also be like yeah there could be some hiccups there and that sort of thing but you think that the that the chain itself and the clients will yeah we'll bear the load yeah yeah so cool and um what um yeah like what do you think's gonna happen in the next couple of days like i mean i was talking to paul earlier and

you know we were talking about um we were talking about uh like ave and the d5 markets and how like the collateral is fully uh you know ethereum's fully utilized like what how do you think like d5 is going to react to the merge being successful um i mean i'm personally certainly curious about what happens on the i mean i i think this this blockchain will fade away and will be irrelevant but still kind of at least from uh from uh maybe just when we're like what what's going on yeah because i didn't follow that very closely i just right yeah so there will be some minors that will just

keep keep on mining the other chain so there will be i mean at the end it just takes one one guy so so it's pretty clear there will be a fork or there will be a other version of um i mean work chain again i think it will be irrelevant but it will certainly be an interesting learning experience for all those defy systems because essentially kind of from there like from the perspective of a defy system on that on that other chain it's kind of this catastrophic event where the value of isa drops by 98 yeah so potentially i'm speculating here but

we could see uh like like for example maker there's there will be of course the maker tokens and kind of everything will be on the other chain so i could imagine that for the first time we will see this emergency shutdown mechanism on on the other chain so on the other chain yeah that will certainly be kind of wide west for d5 because everything is completely messed up price oracles might not or will not work uh or will not work properly um all the collateral or um all they used to see is completely worthless now so kind of people will yeah again i think to some extent uh one shouldn't get too distracted by it yeah

but it's gonna be interesting to see like everything kind of go up right i mean if if uh if in fact the the the change isn't of any significance it'll be it's sort of interesting to see everything kind of go up in flames yeah get your popcorn right right but but i would call uh kind of call users to be careful because um unless you really are deep into it into the stuff there is a risk that if you do anything on this other chain that those transactions also can be replayed on on um so unless you really understand what you're doing uh just

wait until there are really safe options to kind of use this yeah is people at the production um i mean at what level is that implemented and what's the like what's the risk of like issuing a mass transaction right being replayed right um i mean there's a kind of huge list of kind of it depends on on many many factors in general there is the concept of a chain id yeah and if the transaction has a different chain id it can not be replayed but they are kind of also old i mean there's there's still an old transaction format that doesn't have a

chain id so you kind of need to know what format your wallet is using also um but i think they had announced that they would change the chain id but not immediately after the merge so again there are a lot of uncertainty so that's why and then there are like even more complex things like if you do an also safe transaction then you are not doing a wrinkle conviction but you are kind of authorizing your safe to do something right again and it depends on what you're using a signature that might potentially be valid on both chains exactly exactly i mean in prints but also there since kind of two or three years we have their version that has this replay protection with all levers if not so again yeah it's a huge list of uh so again just be just be careful be

careful unless you 100 understand what you're doing yeah okay cool well thanks yeah thanks for chatting with me and uh good luck with everything and yeah happy merge 30 minutes 30 minutes take your microphone back [Music] yeah yeah all right just gonna switch this over easy [Music]

okay so i'm here with eduardo uh who was on the podcast yesterday yeah so if you listen to yesterday's episode you'll recognize his voice um yeah so what are you doing right now well right now we are putting in the screen uh the locks of the guests and please him packages so mainly we are tracking both the consensus client and the execution layer yeah um yeah we expect to see it in real time making happen the merge and see the panda there and uh you'll see the panda do you have a panda animation like ready i don't think i know i don't have it but maybe they have something for i don't know yeah yeah uh but yeah we're really excited

about this um a lot of work to this moment so so what are you looking out for here and yeah mainly we can see that the the the gate that is in the in the top uh is getting new new blocks so for now we are waiting just for the tdd and in the in the bottom we have prism just ready for the merge as you can see here and uh you can see the light is difficulty and just waiting for the terminal okay okay so you know you guys you guys um so dapnode uh sells you know computers like little boxes that people can uh use to run validators at home and you also have software that allows them

to easily run uh their their ethereum validators from home um what like you guys were here i came in at seven you guys were already here you had like your whole team like yeah huddled over like in a war room what what kinds of things could go wrong uh for for dap node users uh well at the end for download users at the end we are running just the packets from the clients so the only thing that can happen is that any song of can be need to be published because of the of the needs at some point but in general i mean i have the feeling that this has been dating a lot so maybe just a hot season specific packet for any reason but not a big thing just to be aware

that a new version that fix something but uh yeah at the end we are running all the clients all the execution clients all the concepts of studying them so we have now 12 combinations so if something happened in one of them we need to be aware that is why we are already in here you have to be ready to publish weekly uh packets with the last person but i mean the people are safe okay so it's everything should go well yeah exactly i think generally people are pretty uh pretty optimistic right yeah that's a feeling and um yeah i mean like you know once the merge happens uh like you guys have been preparing for this for a long time like what could

potentially change for you and like adapt as a product um what what kinds of things would you be integrating or updating or or building for customers yeah the the reality is that uh to run a validator has become every time more and more complicated so we are working on a specific ui for run all the packages that we have in them not so you are going to be able to set up the consensus client the execution client also we use the electricity to protect the validator so signing signer yeah what's that yeah this is a piece that it goes on top of the validator yeah so mainly it's like a

easiest packet that allows you to sign messages that means that you can connect several validators to that package and since it has a slashing protection database you are safe that you are not going to sign two times that's a message okay this allow us to switch quickly from one client to another client without they need to move uh validator keys ah okay that's interesting and it has a exclusivity layer for users so that is why we are so comfortable switching between clients and download because we have these bits that control keys okay and obviously we are going to put the mimi boost for those who want to run it so yeah the map is growing all the pieces that you need to run

are growing uh yeah and we are preparing ui to make easy to understand all of these easy to switch between all of them and just to help people to uh not spend all the day i think you can get off the double so yeah yeah i mean it's like it's a cool i mean i knew about doubt no before but i i had never like actually seen the dashboard and i think i want to get one that's great yeah we also have metrics uh so for example i think i can show you here and like if you can see uh maybe no i can open a big one you can do this

okay so when you start a packaging number you also have graphana metrics in case you want to take a look to them so for example we have here the web3 signing metrics and since since i am running a validator you can see how the signatures are happening on this on the damn note so you need you see if the classic protection has been working so you can check more details of the node if you are an expert if you want but it's obviously this is optional for those who know what is what all of these mean and it's just automatically set up at the moment that you install the packets so you don't need to do any anything it's just so yeah we also have a telegram integration uh

so in case you haven't happened you can be aware quickly that's super useful yeah totally so yeah mainly try to make a live feature for user in general so this is all in your grafana node sorry in your dap node um when when you set up at home like you you have all these analytics and all this dashboard like built in yeah i mean you have you need to tell a packet that this is the nes but at the end when you have it started we have kind of um automatic way in which when you start the package you get the metric from the package inside this yeah it's automatically done yeah this is like magic at some point but yeah at the end we are just trying to remove the complexity for the financial user to make

this kind of thing faster that if you are along with it yeah that's super cool i really like it i mean i i run validators on cosmos and i know how hard it is to like set everything up and and you know we've tried to automate as many things as possible to like launch chains update clients whenever updates need to occur and yeah the fact that you guys have bundled this into like a nice web ui product that automatically updates when clients need to update and you can like install packages and extra things like i think it's really cool yeah i have professional friends but i mean i have friends that are running professional validator in cosmos and they are also running download and it's the i mean they didn't touch this anytime it's like

the perfect validator for them because it's not zero maintaining also yeah so it's really really useful for for people in iran nice wow thanks yeah i think so thank you thanks for chatting yeah enjoy the merge [Music] same all right so i'm gonna go around and see who else wants to talk to us let's see if i can switch this around ah there you go a lot of people here [Music]

someone's going to give a live performance in a bit got people from south africa people from the states watching you guys are troopers because it's late there all right before we since we saw a

couple minutes here i'm to give a little tour a full node for those who've never never seen full nodes so this is kind of like the main lobby area and then over here are the offices oh lost you for a second here the old school epicenter logo and this is where um yeah brian recorded probably many of the episodes that he's been on and federica certainly records from here very often um yeah this was set up by vedron our audio engineer i've done a couple of episodes here myself it's very nice very professional and uh yeah hey

we're on live stream go ahead uh this is where the cosmos office used to be actually in this box many years ago yeah it's a very cool space lots of good memories here and the gnosis team mostly hangs out back here so yeah if you're ever in berlin be sure to stop by full node um

[Music] oh we got somebody someone speaking over there so we're gonna go listen [Music] so i don't have a stabilizer on this camera so apologies for the uh how this works is there's a table of 176

fragments of music that can be combined in any order for an original waltz every time so the music is in fact composed partly by mozart and partly by the ethereum blockchain musicians here that woke up at like five in the morning are about to play this music as it is generated in real time by the blockchain and shown to them on the screen at the time of the merge you'll notice the character musical change marking the beginning of a beautiful new era in ethereum's [Applause] the history foundation has requested

this be educational so i'm going to talk quickly about randomness blockchains need randomness to work but the way randomness is generated will change at the merge this is one of the many big changes under the hood that make proof of state work in proof of work block producers are randomly selected by who can solve the proof-of-work puzzle first and for mistake um ethereum randomness is more explicit basically revalidator commits to some random value when they join the this combined randomness is then used to select the validators that are allowed to produce the next blocks and it will also be used to generate the music to hear

post merge as you listen keep in mind that you're listening to the heartbeat of ethereum in real time as blocks are produced and also remember the moves highly are experimental and that many things could go wrong and the musicians are seeing the music for the very first time and they're operating on very little sleep so thanks again for being here [Applause] [Music]

hmm [Music] so [Music] so

[Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] so [Music] okay actually just give us another five minutes

because i think that the marriage [Applause] we'll be back in five minutes [Music] [Music] yes okay so this is a um if you didn't get that at the

beginning this is a musical composition that's based on um block data so i'm not exactly sure how it works but basically like some algorithm that uh translates the like block information into notes and we're starting to play but because i think the merge has been delayed by another couple of minutes they're going to be starting up again in a few minutes let's see who else we can talk to [Music] good you want to have a little chat

and we're super tired okay a lot of people are tired hey how's it going good do you guys want to do you want to do you want to have a little chat on the episode live stream [Laughter] that's okay i just woke up too indefinitely waiting for the merge

you uh put this on here uh sorry all right hey so good morning i'm here with stefan from gnosis and uh and um yeah i think we're all very tired how late did you stay out last night i went actually to sleep at like one or two yeah yeah

decent amount of sleep i figured like the emergency late and late further so eventually i can actually almost sleep it you can almost function right now so yeah so it's been further delayed now i think it was supposed to be around 8 15 but now it's around like 8 40. yeah 8 40 8 25 paris uh berlin time um mine has do as a favor for european time zones yeah actually so can you explain maybe like why it is that the merge is being delayed like what's happening here on the chain right yeah we're just waiting for the total difficulty to get the target and the total difficulty is defined by how much hash power there is on the

network and right now of course like miners are thinking about strategically like what change they should mine and some miners are dropping off because they want to mine uh fdm classic yeah i'll do something else and that's why we have less and less like yeah totally difficult to increase yeah time and that's why it's like slightly delayed right it's always a moving target but right now it's just like usually it can go faster or slower but right now just minus dropping off and that's why it takes a bit longer so as miners are uh are dropping off then it's getting closer and closer to a difficulty target there were projections about how long this would take but you know less miners are dropping off for whatever reasons

because like strategically they think they need to wait a little bit longer or whether like they're just sort of like playing that game about like who's gonna drop off first um and and when we hit the target then the merge will happen exactly yeah okay so this is gone for a while we could be here for a while yeah i think now it's like i mean the closer we get the less likely you have for the delay so maybe it will be like one more minute delayed or two more minutes yeah i think that's it so otherwise we're gonna need the countdown now the next 10 minutes or 15 minutes to actually happen yeah otherwise we're going to need more bridges and um yeah so i was talking to martin earlier like what do you think is going to happen post merge because like he was

describing this kind of like apocalyptic scenario on the world chain where like everything starts to fall apart and like burn in flames but yeah so first of all i hope like ethereum itself will define like i hope we don't see too many outages it's a very cold though i could see some rpc providers not being available or maybe sometimes exchanges not being able to allow withdrawals for some longer time than they yeah they plan to but i hope everything else will be fine don't see any any issues in dpi uh regarding the ethereum blockchain yes we will see a very interesting mvv game yeah because on this network suddenly everything but ether has pretty much no value yeah and so you will see all these

booths getting drained and uh basically defy entirely collapsing yeah uh it will be interesting test case yeah no that's like it's super fantastic materials uh it's also a very question about what the value of each flower actually is but someone just someone just uh posted here in the chat i don't know if i could see uh about about a 51 attack um yeah okay yeah no i mean yeah it'll be interesting to have sort of the chronicle of like how i mean if if work doesn't uh doesn't survive like how how that whole thing collapses and like the cascading effects of you know like pools getting drained

and people getting liquidated and you know like functioning die you know die uh implementing the the emergency shut off and like oh you'll see like if actually if you improve work has any real value that even like makes people do these things yeah my view is like it's much more like the ethereum classic we get more mining power yeah yeah which would be great right i mean like yeah like uh i mean do you think plastic also doesn't really happen consistent to be honest yeah it doesn't have a collapsing ecosystem you know yeah and yeah so you know regarding rare gnosis chain and the

the merge on on gnosis chain uh what kind of lessons you hope to learn from like the main net merge uh for well yeah so actually we're running on the same client so we have nethermind execution client which also does emerge now on the theory net we have taku prism lighthouse and other atm2 clients so hopefully everything goes well but if it doesn't then we know what you potentially also have to fix for north chain of course yeah we run exactly the same clients in the end yeah smart move to wait a couple weeks before uh yeah well initially the plan was actually to do it the other way around the north chain would merge before ethereum and

eventually ethereum would be able to learn something from our merge yeah but i guess now it's the other way around which like it's also fine yeah yeah all right well thanks cool thanks so much minutes seven minutes picked up again all right so apparently it's happening in seven minutes hi

you want to be on a live stream um really interesting bill not really for sharing not ready for sorry okay so we're gonna go over here to the screen so we got the uh

execution tent on top and the consensus line on the bottom someone's asking in the chat if someone talked about saskatoon i don't know i didn't hear that [Music] we're not sure if it's going to happen now so we're starting music again [Music] so

[Music] so [Music] foreign

[Music] [Applause] [Music] foreign [Music] so

[Music] foreign so

[Music] so [Music] [Applause]

[Music] the marriage has happened [Music] all right so the merge has happened it is 8 43 paris time or berlin time

central european time so i guess 6 43 utc is when it happens [Music] uh [Music] so it looks like we're producing blocks

[Music] thank you [Music] [Music] is [Music] do you have a panda

[Laughter] [Music] so what are we seeing here the different slots right now we are waiting for the first justified uh slot and then we need to wait for the first justify block so now we need to wait around 12 minutes for the first one and 12 minutes for the second one but everything looks good looks good this happened finally awesome it's really really long in amazing making yeah crazy

[Music] all right let me set you up here [Music] uh hey so here's a familiar face she got here right on time for the last year like 90 seconds

i've been here since seven and uh yeah i didn't expect to meet so many people but um for like seven years and it's finally an opportune time for people who usually start work at like 11 a.m but you know whatever you wake up at night and then go to bed yeah when i came in there was about i don't know there was like maybe 10 people still drinking and like the whole doctor team were huddling around making sure everything would work um and then some people were like oh we wanted to go to the ef office but this place was it was cool to be at uh [Music] so what are you going to do today um i have meetings sadly all day so we

have a team team brunch and then yeah basically everyone that yeah [Applause] [Music] for hosting us yannick for coding the whole website and everything and uh ethereum foundation for funding us

and uh thanks to the ethereum blockchain for working [Applause] super nice yeah good turnout um so what what's what's next this is this is uh like the first withdrawals yeah so withdrawals knows this chain is going to merge as well yeah so basically we will have the merge in like two or three weeks um and then um it'll be uh you know like uh shouting yeah yeah like we're getting that slowly but

surely slowly but surely very slowly much more slowly than you would have ever thought uh what i'm curious what do you think is going to happen on uh like on d5 protocols today i i'm uh i got my popcorn ready for the uh for the east power yeah kind of we've been chatting about that this morning yeah yeah so let's see how that goes yeah um i think so basically i think the the voice on twitter uh basically i mean in principle there would have been really good narrative to spin but some are the best they came up with is might not somehow need to make money versus a shitty narrative so i'm pretty sure it's dead on arrival but yeah i mean and what about like on on um

on the merge chain like what do you think is going to happen there on d5 i think there's it's possible they're minor hiccups but i think all in all basically this has been a long time coming yeah so i feel like the main things they'll be fine yeah but i'm talking more like markets oh yeah yeah good question i hadn't thought this yeah i don't i don't i don't really you know do prize speculation yeah let's see but i think it's good for the narrative of the theorem i think basically absolutely this is like a prerequisite to kind of you know being like long-term legitimate absolutely yeah and if you i don't know if this was true enough or if it was fake but like i saw this tweet by the tezos foundation saying like ethereum moving to the merge is it is basically

it um catching up with the entire industry you can you can build on jesus and i thought it was a bit funny but uh yeah like i think it's important yeah but i think it's important uh to to the long term narrative and like certainly um will like help shape shape opinions about like blockchains and you know like this whole kind of narrative around um um utilization of electricity and things like that so absolutely even even now like i think in the industry we're sort of aware that this narrative is somewhat skewed uh this will definitely like remove a lot of arguments from the playbook of those people so important for mainstream adoption just for the narrative yeah so what's next for you what's next for me yeah are you heading

over to zk uh i don't know what i'm going to do today there's so many things going on yeah i i haven't bought a ticket for zk do you want my not not live and if you're watching all right yeah thanks yeah we got like 25 people watching this since the last hour so it's pretty cool fantastic all right let me take this back from you take it from me what are you doing are you going to go to zk uh no i have no time but uh like i i didn't work i mean i did work the entire last three days but not in the way that it works yeah yes berlin is happening tomorrow yes but

i'm not going to use berlin going back home all right cheers see you later see ya all right that was federico see if there's other folks that want to talk to us oh maybe this guy hey how's it going you wanna you wanna say something you wanna say something to the epicenter audience yes yeah we're streaming with this contraption all right

hold on a second get you my picked up so for those listening sorry if there's any sort of noise every time i flick with the mic all right so let's tell people who you are and what you work on yeah hi guys i'm hilma from gelato uh we do a lot of automation for smart contracts other things um and yeah i'm happy to be here at fullness see the march live i saw you coming in like right before it happened you almost missed it one minute i was like okay perfect timing and i i just witnessed it and yeah just making sure our infrastructure is up and running stuff is executing it is it should everything is working well apparently is

your infrastructure up and running and working smoothly we did a lot we did a bunch of testing um and uh yeah the the merch was a success as you see here yeah and so yeah finally it happened right i think you probably still remember uh 2017 or so it was the merge was like half a year or a year or something and now like five years uh it happened so yeah it is also like it's really great to be here at full node while it's happening like i don't know for me it feels like such a like such a selling point for like crypto in berlin and just like ethereum in general you know look at that crowd ethereum didn't start here in this office but for me like this

was certainly one of the places where you know like a lot of my interests sort of grew and like meeting folks and so it's cool to be here and see the familiar faces what's um what's next for you guys and like how are you sort of moving forward or yeah yeah yeah a bunch of stuff basically um trying to make it uh as powerful for a lot of us as possible to utilize our tools to build smart contracts that interact from the off chain world to the onshore world and have this whole process be fully autonomous so you can trigger any sort of on-chain transactions with off-chain data and triggers and vice versa so having like a seamless automated workflow from on to off chain and across like most chains and yeah we already the

most sort of use keeper network in web3 right now so in ethereum evm space and uh yeah so working uh working on making these tools better more accessible and just more reliable and at some point completely permissionless decentralized and it's like a primitive forward free that just lives beyond us itself so yeah what are you going to be watching in the next couple of days like where's your where's your uh interest uh and your attention gonna be uh regarding the merge no yeah yeah regarding like what's happening in the next few days um yeah so i'm actually very curious about what's happening right now on the blocks okay what is going on because i expected just like gas prices to go quite volatile and uh was because i mean like i don't think everyone has figured out

like the flash board stuff yet so i guess the gas price was happening um but yeah no i'm just uh curious about how the how everything reacts to it um the infrastructure just is as expected and markets are always volatile are they like external factors i think yeah what's the price let's let's just it's just for i'm just curious i'm wondering what's going on with the price right now wow i'm doing here on the phone like i don't have anywhere to like look it up nothing really oh right it's just yeah it hasn't really moved i mean it dropped yesterday a little bit um we got a little bump yeah yeah i think i think what's like with the prices it's always people are over estimating these sort of

micro events or underestimating the macro effect yeah i think some like a macro like i don't know inflation rates or whatever they can't be tanking it's just like a much bigger effect yeah these days uh but yeah i i expected there's so like a downtrend after the mergers always like the news is there nothing really changes right yeah but only slowly after a while like inflation changes for ethereum so yeah what do you think the so what's your view on like how the inflation the new inflationary model will um like impact yeah well it's i think it will be similar to like a hardening right so slowly but surely over time it will have an effect yeah but it will be probably

overwhelmed by macro factors for the like short term to medium term but then slowly and slowly you will see the effect i think yeah and it's but it will take like it will take more than longer than people expected yeah and what about the narrative like i was just talking to federica and you know we were talking about the significance of the of the narrative and you know ethereum has gone through several narratives you know like world computer and then like you know the like icos and then d5 and then nfts and like there's a new like now there's a new narrative yeah i think you know it's you can kind of see like where it's going in terms of like the energy efficiency and that sort of stuff but

what do you anticipate will be the sort of broad narrative around ethereum in the next like year or two next narrative um so i'm i'm very hopeful that it will be sort of these non-financial uh use cases i think we saw nfts right nfts how they currently are sort of very limited to just buying and selling so it was like trading or icos just with energy yeah right yeah but but i see like like with our like with our infrastructure like we have like a ton of games and stuff using us okay and some of them are really like popular like they're really used i can see that right i see like transactions happening in and out every day and and i think gaming also social and stuff like that

is super super interesting of course all much like on the cheaper chains mostly um so i'm super hopeful with that i think there's a lot of money in this space now so people can really innovate and building actually like on-chain games that are like open and composable and other people can build your eyes on top and steal some of the like take these items and do something else so i think there will be like a huge remixing going on um but uh and then like proper financial tools as well because right now we only had like these landing amms but everything that is really sophisticated that you have from traditional markets are still not really there or liquid yeah and i think this is now only coming like all the book exchanges are really like efficient markets that can compete

against the traditional world in terms of not only like openness accessibility but then also just as efficient gas-wise and everything so yeah i think it will take time but yeah and what's um how are you guys planning to uh integrate gelato like cross evm chain like you know make have be able to automate things from like say gnosis chain to mainnet so we are already live from 18 different indian chains okay so yeah we we have like an architecture which is very sort of modular and can um we can basically deploy a new change

very quickly so we have not yet went beyond evm uh but we will certainly do so in the future yeah um but uh yeah so we are very we we have like systems where for example you as a project if you live on 10 different chains you can have one balance with gelato and you can pay for transactions on 18 different 10 different chains right so you have like you have an ethereum and then we front you the money on like polygon or avalanche or whatever you want to execute transactions upon and then we sort of asynchronously deduct your balance on ethereum um so especially cool for like bridges or bridge operators and stuff like that yeah using it like connex or nomad make it our bridges and stuff so um

yeah so we are quite multi-chain by default uh but not beyond the evm yet but at some point cool yeah thanks for uh thanks for doing this yeah uh community [Laughter] still got a couple of people watching uh i think we'll try to do a couple more of these and then uh and maybe wrap it up because you know i probably want to go to sleep or go to work or something i don't know sleep work not sure probably a bit of work all right thanks all right yeah price is not really doing anything right it's does um actually work right yeah

oh yeah i i expected like as well [Music] yeah also maybe i don't know maybe like the chinese markets are probably like end of day now so i guess it's still like daytime there but maybe tomorrow there'll be it was just important nothing really changed right it was like the same things the same usage yeah now it's just like a bit of inflation that is less but this doesn't take effect right away yeah yeah yeah it might take a while all right thank you sir cheers all right that was homer from gelato

who else can we talk to here that's been really tough [Music] oh i think i saw roland perfect hey how's it going okay yeah do you want to you want to talk a little bit on the epicenter live stream about the merge and uh

well um i mean like you've been here for a while you've got lots of things to say i'm sure i mean if you want to um oh no okay all right thanks anyway ah um

so i found a familiar face here yeah happy birth did you just get here no i've been here for a while i saw i was here for the merch okay cool yeah i didn't see you come in um are you excited it's very exciting it seems like it has gone very smoothly like blocks are being produced you know uh you know every no one seems stressed out it's so what are we seeing here we got the participation rate yeah it's just like the beacon chain is the beacon chain is functioning as expected blocks are being produced you know very impressive so what uh you know as a as a familiar face in the cosmos

ecosystem you know what what what do you think there are any impacts that the merge will have or like on the interchange ecosystem um in terms of narrative or yeah i think there's a couple of things one is you know there is this like maybe there's a better path now to uh like native ibc integration with ethereum yeah but the other thing is like i think now like this has been like such a has consumed so much engineering attention right that like the sort of convergent vision now of cosmos and ethereum towards like just this like you know uh multi-vm multi-node multi-like chain ecosystem can now is like now the like

the collective focus yeah right yeah i think that's true i think like having having a better path to integrating real um you know trust trust minimize uh bridging between the evm ecosystem and uh and cosmos is like one of the ones yeah the world of roll-ups and the world of cosmos chains are definitely converging uh and i think this is a big milestone towards that convergence what what like what's actually technically needed for ibc to work on like with through with your maintenance or through like a roll-up um yeah

does it only have to do with finality and like state groups well it's so it's all about so there's a couple of things one is you know there's a light client implementation for um there's a like client implementation there needs to be a white client let's just do this here so we're not in the way of everybody there needs to be a like client implementation they're all for ethereum it also needs to be an implementation of ethereum of like the whole message passing stack of ibc um and there you know there is a solidity implementation but i haven't really looked at it uh that's a lot of the implementation of ibc yeah really yeah oh i didn't know that yeah okay and so like they've solved the like

client problem by having an off chain oracle for the like consensus statement yeah yeah but um you know we get closer and closer to a world where that's possible okay and so then every chain would have to implement this solidity implementation of ibc no no no ethereum would have just the maina yeah okay so you would yeah you would uh settle to ethereum like any any roll up or side chain would settle through ethereum and and then from there you could but i i i generally feel like this is again a big day just because like i think it does represent more attention going towards like that vision of the future yeah yeah yeah like it's it'd be great i mean like honestly you know there's there's been i think

the main thing that we're going to have to solve in the next couple years is this ability to just move funds and have trains interact with each other and you know we i think a lot of people like in the space see it as this like technical thing but what it unlocks and what it enables it's just so much better user experience where a user can just like be on be in an app and have uh whatever currency they're using in this wallet and it just ends up paying for something this is like a big milestone towards really making great web 3 applications across all the events yeah cool and so what do you uh what do you expect is going to happen like

on uh on d5 markets uh in the next couple of days i mean like the macro situation is still really bad so i expect that to mostly dominate but uh you know inflation numbers and expected fred rate increases and stuff like that probably will make more of a difference but like this is you know where we uh you know if we make it through the rest of the day you know i think a huge amount of technical risk in the ecosystem has been eliminated yeah and what about somalia so how you guys been preparing for the merge and how is this going to impact the product moving forward um we because sommelier doesn't really bridge tokens so you've seen a lot of bridges shut down for the merge but because we don't bridge tokens we

didn't we only bridge execution um we didn't feel like there's a lot of risk so you know hopefully like i'll check in but it's it was it's probably a non-event probably fine i got like 95 percent confidence that and like the worst case scenario no one would lose money so yeah okay what are you going to be doing today are you were you up late last night no i mean i was pretty excited at like 2 a.m and i couldn't really sleep there's just like this is a very exciting moment yeah so yeah it's uh it's uh it's good to be in berlin yeah it's gonna be in berlin it's good to be here like here at full node like

yeah i don't know i don't think there's anywhere else i would like to be cool thanks thanks all right and uh maybe we uh find another cosmonaut actually he's having a conversation who else can you talk to minutes talking to the epicenter uh

audience sure yeah uh okay yeah yeah just five minutes yeah oh you'll come to me in five minutes yeah all right i think we'll be done in five minutes oh okay uh all right thanks live stream calls on you sure there you go all right so we got dave from osmosis fame i didn't know you would be here yeah you know how can you not be in berlin for the merge yeah i know it's like it's really cool so what have you been up to these last couple days uh think about bull shark a lot but in

addition to like just you know trying to shift releases but uh phil sharks like an alternate uh sound solvent that's like it's basically solves how do you make uh dags work like proof of stake yeah that's actually a really elegant solution that uh that feels some to me simple entitlement and like with way more benefits okay what's this it's called bull shark i've never heard of this uh it's like a paper from the last year from um i think the dm folks that are then that then became like now sweet and outhouse yeah yeah so this is what you've been working on oh no no i've just been like back burner thinking about it okay two days okay i'm not this is not what i'm actually coding and stuff it's uh very much just like trying to mentally frame these basic senses i see okay and um

yeah like what do you think about how i mean i was talking to zeki earlier and i was asking him what like what how he thinks the merge is going to say like impact the broader ecosystem you know because like we're more say like in the cosmos space and like of course this is not directly impacting cosmos but uh what what how do you feel that merge is going to maybe like shift narratives or impact like user adoption in the broader crypto space and like potentially yeah on cosmos science really cool is that now um way more than like 50 percent of crypto market cap is uh proof of stake yeah because you have each and every erc20 yeah that uses c and stuff um so i think you know we at least

have this narrative of like uh you know power wastage going away but more importantly um we can now start doing better uh finale tricks like now each is now more composed of other chains because you have a finality at some point so you can do uh like ibc style bridges yeah yeah so how how oh i mean the pitch of each two i think i feel like right now is that it's solid it's basically just solid data availability so now like the roll-up dream can happen for execution yeah but the roll-up dream is actually just the app chain dream even but we offload they do they go into one person uh then you know well either people will just

run they do themselves with like tendermint or will uh offload to some something else not just yeah yeah it's it's kind of cool to see like you know that that app chain thesis come to fruition and in the also in the ethereum space it's like validates i think this idea that applications uh blockchain applications need to be sort of segregated from other applications and that we modularize the stack and like of course in cosmos we've talked about this for years yeah it's great i mean i'm super excited about having come to ethereum of course i think the thing that still is you know i'd love to see develop is like trust minimize bridging across all these ecosystems and i think that that would

we don't you know we don't see it so much but because we see it i think in this i see it and perhaps a lot of people that are being seen as like a technical advancement but it unlocks so much user user experience uh improvements in terms of just being able to like use one wallet to interact with all sorts of interesting ecosystems that not even know or care like where you're buying in nft or you know how you're paying for your coffee so here's we're trying to make it we're making it so that you can use metamask to sign transactions to not even know you're trying to make it so you don't even know your leave ethereum and uh have osmosis be this back end in the middle so you use any wall it just goes through and you don't know like i think this is

where we'll see way more things happening of uh so you make things more entertaining yeah people stop having to think about where what chain are my assets on yeah so let's uh yeah give us some osmosis alpha sure go uh i guess i mean on that topic in particular like what you do is uh you make things like uh yeah cross chain swap stuff like i want to go from uh uh i don't know adam to akash or like i said because i wanna cautiously software like this is like a as a service thing where like i use akt to rent a server right why do i care what token i use or where what can i'm on i like what we should have is then uh with enough suppose ability done like uh you pay for a cash server or with any

token and on any chain and it just gets routed and swapped for you yeah so trying to get so if we get this solved then you know imagine anything you want to do on cosmos you want to pay for something no more native token like thinking no you don't even think about my what chain or mask is on it'll just you just do an action and it can the front end should just route like your tokens and swap things whatever you need yeah what do you think of like the prospect of zk bridges yes so okay people use this for people using bridges for two things and uh one is like an efficiency optimization that is really cool so um efficiency optimization is right now ibc is a light client bridge yeah what this means is uh you do like

client verification of headers so it turns out how do i do this i verify a lot of signatures okay so yeah i can just use a snark to make this like i verify like one small things of linear signatures but what's cooler is uh you can now solve the actual i think the big problem of bridging that is that we still trust the state route like so even likely improves we just use economic guarantees to say the state route is valid yeah but with uh we can use snarks and if you have a vm chain and uh you can do a snark of the vm to guarantee that the state route is valid so now all these zke evm projects that are happening like you know for um polygon has like many like you can use any of these to get a

proof of the evm execution so once now we can have a bridge that uh does like client verification uh like just header verification and does a snark to guarantee if the entire state is valid yeah so i think that's a huge step up and bridging of those like now we've guaranteed stability that's yeah that's cool and like in the evm world i think where or is it is it is it is it accurate to say that like zk bridges will be uh so i actually don't know but when you say vk bridge i actually don't know which of the things you mean about zk for like life client scalability or start from my client scalability or uh the state validity stability is like the exciting thing yeah like client validity is just like cool optimization i think

i'm talking about state validity okay right and so where where we where we can't implement ibc is this is ck bridging a more uh adapted solution to that or is it like the sort of the promise of implementing zk bridges here no uh sustainability is just like a good feature to have yeah like this is a nice thing to have for uh i don't have to trust the chains like i don't have to trust the chain's economics to guarantee that like the state i'm giving is valid like imagine there's a random work oracle chain um what if it has like shitty proof of the snake assumptions well i could then still trust the randomness as valid based on state validity even if it has economic issues economic finalities just

fork choice rule yeah yeah but uh if we if we verify today it's it's full choice and stupidity well if we have uh validity proofs or zika zk preaching then um it's only economic finality but for many things that's like for like a lot of information transfer this could be important but some things it's not or something's way less sensitive okay so like i mentally view uh my map meant to have bridges is like a couple things that need to like make vastly increase the security for tail end chains literally proofs for um all chains just have rate limits on the bridge because as long as you're stupid that like there could be a software bug and you lose uh your entire no bridge gets like d-pegged like wormhole nomad

this happened and so uh you should have a rate limit say like okay in the worst case only a fifth of the bridge could be pegged like you know a dollar becomes 80 cents not zero cents yeah yeah like i was talking i was talking to argue from connects about this implementing some sort of rate limiting yeah on uh on withdrawals from bridges and axe are out of this sorry axe are out of this and we're adding to ibc very soon yeah with the code done then it's like pipeline for not this release with net release after okay it would be like a gen uh a general rate limit or change would be able to decide uh so yeah right the code right now is just for osmosis and what we're doing is uh just uh

sorry yeah so the code is for osmosis yeah but anyone else can it can import it wants to be involved is good but uh what we do is then you specify a rate limit per big channel so like for the big ones like uscc yeah bitcoin uh governance should like just set uh to choose like what is the percentage we want like percent per day per week that like if something happens liveness of the liveness is like temporary halted and then either someone that people go verify is this a security bug or not is this is this decided by governance or yeah it'd probably be separate governance okay okay cool so then uh how you recover from the from right limits that is like either you just

nothing happen uh you just wait or if there's like an issue you know you go respond if there's no issue then uh then you can wait or have someone like manually come in and like re-start it okay cool yeah well i'm not gonna hold you up any longer thanks thanks for joining us yeah it's good to see you again thanks nice to see you all up center community thank you yeah all right so that was dave i think we're gonna button this up um yeah i've been here for an hour and a half now um it's been consistently about 10 to 25 people in here so it's great

yeah yeah excited to decide to get the day started um i'm probably gonna go to some other conference there's a bunch of stuff going on in berlin today there's ck summit there's uh doom con i don't have tickets for any of those things but yeah you're welcome uh responding to the comments here yeah and then um live goes on so thanks for joining thanks for tuning in being part of this live stream we don't do this often but definitely something i think we'd like to do more often and see you on twitter and thanks for listening