Meme Coins May Have Found a Real Use Case

Transcript

Hey, Banklist Nation. Today on the show, I talked to Eric Connor and Andy 8052 about all the activity happening in and around memecoins in crypto. There's the paired tokenized stock memecoin activity happening on Robin Hood chain. There's conversations around FOMO and what their FOMO strategies are and also just their dos and don'ts around memecoin trading. So, this is a memecoin episode and it's not for everyone. I don't recommend memecoins, but nonetheless, I do partake in them and I remain kind of curious about what the future might hold. Memecoins are a sector of crypto and that sector progresses and innovates like all the others and I'm want to make sure that I stay on top of that weird corner of the internet. So, that's your disclaimer. If memecoins aren't for you,

feel free to skip this episode. But, if you want to stay up to speed about what's happening or if you're just curious about what's going on in the trenches, feel free to tune in. So, let's get into my conversation with Andy and Eric. >> Eric. Andy, welcome back. >> Hey, David. Good to be back. >> Thanks for having me. >> Seems like another cycle is upon us. Uh Andy, Eric, we all became friends during DeFi summer and that was a a while ago. I want to get you guys on the show just because I want to get grounded a little bit as we enter what seems to be like a little bit of froth in the market now.

And if you know the cycle plays out as I normally do, there will it will only get frothier. And so now I think is some of the time to get our bearings about what this all kind of looks like. Uh a lot of this trading behavior, the FOMO memecoin behavior has been around for a while, but it's definitely picking up steam. So maybe I can kind of like start the conversation with this kind of just zooming out. Memecoins have been both incredibly durable and are individually incredibly not durable. like they most of them go to zero. But as a meta, we are still doing meme coins over and over and over again. Like we had the first memecoin bull market of 2024 and as an industry that kind of did zero for

adoption and I would say like the industry took an L thanks to memecoins as like a brand identity for the industry. And then here we are again in the latter half of 2026 going on 2027 and FOMO and meme coins are kind of like once again the meta. And I bring up the fact that we all kind of started in uh DeFi summer and then after that was NFT mania. Previous cycles have all kind of looked different to each other and now we're entering another cycle and it's kind of the same meta of meme coins again. Are are we the question I want to ask you guys is like are we as an industry kind of just stuck in this memecoin meta and that's kind of the way it is. Eric, you're you're the the

biggest veteran out of all of us. Maybe I'll throw that one to you. >> Yeah, I mean I think so. It's ironic, of course, right? Robin Hood finally starts tokenizing things like stocks and the first thing people do with it is create meme stocks, right? It's just it's just where I think finance in general is slowly going. Uh and we're just on the frontier here. Yeah. I mean, I think it'll always be the meta. I think one thing we've seen in the past the problem like you brought up NFTTS DeFi somewhere what happens is someone creates a cool concept like I remember the first time I farmed during DeFi somewhere was on compound right it was just kind of a new concept and then everyone takes that and there's like this Cambrian explosion of either farming or NFTTS or memes and the capital just starts to get spread

thinner and thinner right so there there are like core winners that come out of these cycles like for example crypto punks um you know and the NFT craze you know there's obviously core DeFi protocols still around doing very well like a uni swap and others. You know, there's been big memecoin winners that have gone to billions of dollars and more. Um, but I I think there's always a good the meta, but I think it's getting a little bit more refined. I think with apps like FOMO, for example, um, there's finally some like social accountability. There's tab is like the most held. I think we're seeing consolidation into. I think yeah, there are like a lot of coins that you buy into at a small cap and they just go straight to zero. But a lot of like the most held coins over the last few months have actually done

pretty well. Like AI for example just keeps cranking away every day. I think it's up to like a $350 million market cap. Um so I think like we're getting better better social um structure around this and just better apps for this to happen. Um I'm hoping like not everything just goes to zero and I I do think there's some interesting things happening around like meme stocks and things like that. So um I think every cycle we go through things get a little bit more refined, a little bit more mature and I think we are seeing that with memes as well. >> I would argue that every cycle memes have been like at least a bit of an undertone of what happens like I don't think that 2024 was the first time that meme coins were really like Dogecoin was you know one of the larger onboarding

things to crypto in general. Uh like shecoin in 2021 went to like $40 billion. Um, and so like I think it's one of the few things that crypto is actually really good at. I And I was actually I was at the FOMO happy hour last night talking to someone about this. I think like crypto has proven it's very good at speculation on both the like sophisticated end with leverage and these different things and the degenerate end with memes. And I I think to a certain extent those are kind of just like two different sectors that are just never going to go away because crypto is like by far the best way to do it. Um and we just finally like memes

have caught up to like leverage trading as far as like the level of sophistication and and support to where they've like it feels like they're really coming on and it's this really big thing but it's been happening for forever. It just like took a while to kind of formalize. I I guess the question that I would like to have answered is like does the memecoin sector of the internet like grow up, get refined, get a little bit more polished? It's never going to enter suit territory. That would be just a complete oxymoron. But does it become more accessible in a in a in a positive some way? Because like meme points have like a very negative some brand. It's like you would never ever advise your

non-crypto sibling, parent, uncle to get into memecoins. No one should ever do that. But does it does there a way is there a way for like memecoins? Are we going in a direction that just makes it a little bit more structurally sustainable, structurally sound rather than some of the PVPing uh extraction that we've seen in cycles past? >> Yeah, I mean I think so. I think we're seeing maturity on the financial side. I mean, Andy hinted at a little bit, but I mean, for example, you can go trade per on AI. Like, these meme coins are getting listed quickly on per exchanges, and that creates a more mature market.

All of a sudden, people can short it if they want. They can use leverage. That just takes away some volatility and and kind of evens the playing field. Um, >> yeah, I think so. I mean, I I do think there's a lot around social accountability. I know I brought that up earlier, but like one of the reasons I didn't really get into memes too much. I mean, recovering ETH Maxi, that's one reason, but the other is like you just there's cabals behind the scenes. You just know they're there, right? And like if you buy a little late, you're probably going to get dumped on. And like sure, I'm not naive. Like I know that's still happening even with apps like FOMO. People can have sidewalls and things, but I do think it's adding a bit of social like accountability to the meme layer and that is important. like

you know if you go in there and you see some of the top holders average hold like a long time and they aren't just pump and dumpers like you feel a little bit more comfortable and before these apps existed you just didn't know that like you could kind of go look at wallets on chain but like normies aren't doing that um so I do think that'll help a lot with that >> yeah I always joke with memecoins that like if you don't have the insider information someone else does and you are like you are very actively in like an information asymmetry trade kind of all of the time with memecoin I also think sort of an underrated aspect that hasn't really it's not hasn't really publicly become a thing yet. Um, but I do think that AI actually can meaningfully help here as well as

far as just like getting you know there's really good memecoin traders who I'm friends with who already have their own tooling built themselves. But for analyzing like how many people who are all probably the same person own this token? What's how much is bundled? how much is owned by some small group of people are those people selling whenever there's volume and like as we see like Jev was just announced kind of two days ago and I'm really interested I'm going to spend some time this weekend hacking with that uh on like >> talk about what that is what's what's Jev >> yeah so Jev is uh it's made by a one of the former founders or like very early u members of open AAI uh and it's a new model that is a bit unique uh

comparatively to say you know chat GPT or claude uh because it's not a natural language model um you can prompt it in natural language but it does not respond in natural language um you kind of give it structured outputs that you want and then it will give you its like probabilistic answers so it'll say like 95% yes 5% no uh things like that and what that allows for is it is really really fast and really cheap comparatively uh and so I think that as these sorts of things come out and models get better and faster and cheaper. Uh it I I think that you could probably using Jev make something where you paste a smart contract address in of a token and say analyze this memecoin.

Is it is it bundled? Has this been done before? Is it safe? Relatively speaking, um and get a really fast answer that is actionable uh in a way that currently there's not a lot of insight there. You have to really know what you're doing to analyze those types of things. Maybe just to kind of trace over what we've talked about so far, I kind of opened up this conversation with a little bit of frustration of just like, oh, memecoins again, like the crypto as an innovation layer, we're only going so far. But what we've seen with FOMO, what Eric said with FOMO was like actually we're getting an illuminated social graph. And that is actually progress. If we're talking about like the tech tree of meme coins, FOMO truly unlocked something with like the social graph. And Andy, I

think what you're pointing to is like there are even further steps down that memecoin tech tree that's not really on chain. It's not on Salana. It's not on Robin Hood chain. It's not in the EDM, but it is in like the social and information layer. And using an AI, we can round out some of the pokey edges of the memecoin sector of the internet to to I'm not I don't want to say make it more palatable to mainstream society, but just make it more accessible, less dangerous, less toxic, and potentially more uh more positive some for everyone involved. And that's going to be from the information and social layer.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think >> Yeah, exactly. I think with that AI tooling and what Andy was saying like that that yeah that should help with quality like if everyone can kind of build their own tooling very easy in AI and plug in address in quick and look for red flags like previously you kind of had to rely on like deck screener you know at the bottom right it would have a couple flags now anybody like idea guy summer right with uh with AI so anybody can code this up and like in theory hopefully that prevents over time people from hopping into scams and and bundled tokens and cabal dumps and stuff like that but you you know, that'll take time, but and I'm sure people will package toy up like this online and, you know, offer it and stuff like that. So,

>> and at the same time, someone else will use the same AI tools to get better at bundling scams. >> And so, it'll always be it'll always be a game of cat and mouse with that stuff >> for sure. >> That's just kind of the like the realistic part of the memecoin industry in general, but >> uh you can at least try to position yourself better. That that is like to me the interesting thing about memecoins is that they it is like Bitcoin on the farthest end of the spectrum is a shelling point of attention and it captures value and it like sucks everything in because it's Bitcoin. No, it is the meme and then memecoins are on the other end. It's like no, no, no. We like cycle through these things and that's kind of the point. Like every once in a while we get a sticky one. But

if memecoins, memecoins are like almost by design not durable because so many people want to like hop and move on their capital from the next to the next to the next memecoin. And that's kind of like a feature for some of these traders. That's where the fun comes from. That's where the entertainment comes from. And it's hard it makes it hard to reason about because nothing is durable in this space. And so like m making it like uh like talking about it to anyone who's not in the memecoin sector is always terrible because they like you're advocating that you like keep up with the meta. Uh and so it's just like a weird property of memecoins that you don't really find anywhere else is like the the lack of durability is kind of

the point. >> Yeah, it's very much an attention economy. Let's talk about the stock paired meme coins. Uh because this is like the one bit of like innovation that we've seen uh out of the memecoin uh meta. I don't know where this came from. Was this uh we've used AI twice on this episode. One in the traditional sense meaning artificial intelligence. And then Eric brought up AI which is a memecoin uh artificial enu. Was that uh ground zero for stock paired meme coins or or what was ground zero for stock paired memecoins? >> I couldn't tell you what the first stock paired memecoin was. There probably were some before AI, but AI was kind of the first one to hit some amount of like escape velocity I would say.

>> Um, so I would I think for like >> conversation it is ground zero. There's like Marscoin on Binance chain which is paired with SpaceX that was also very early >> but yeah. >> So artificial enu AI it's fitting like the dog uh Shibbainu memecoin form factor. So, it's a homage to Shibetu and then it's paired with Nvidia and right now it's like at a $350 million market cap. I'm using that as like a bellweather for the stock paired memecoin. So, if that thing continues to go up, I'm like, okay, it's >> remains safe to have exposure to the sector of stock paired meme coins. And if that goes down, I'm like, uhoh, then maybe maybe the cycle's up. So, is that is that a fair thing? Would you guys

agree with that like position of just like the AI memecoin artificial eno is like a bell weather for this like whole meta that we're doing? >> Yeah, I think so. Everything kind of tracks it already. Kind of like crypto general majors track Bitcoin. Like you see if AI is going up, some of the other larger stock coins go up and vice versa. And yeah, I think I I would agree AI is kind of the one that kicked it off. I mean, I would say in general like long.xyz, XYZ, you know, they they they kind of were the ones that kind of, you know, their platform enabled this and the largest stock paired meme coins generally so far from there. It's not totally true. There's other ones that are that have done well, of course, but they're kind of like the they kind of started the whole thing in my opinion.

>> Long.xyz is a memecoin launchpad that like specializes in stock paired coins. Yeah, you can you can pair with um you know, they were kind of the first to do the pairing uh launchpad with stocks that really kind of blew up. There's a lot of others out there doing it, but I I feel like they they've done really good at controlling their brand. Like, you know, they they like invest a lot of time in helping push coins that have been on their platform. You know, they created AI. They, you know, longxyd just kind of has like the quality behind it right now. There's not a lot of just trash that's being launched there for whatever reason. And something else on top of that, I think for for the same reason is they've they've started to implement some uh infrastructure to limit what can be launched. So, you

know, traditionally with a memecoin, someone puts out something and it's good, five other groups of people will all come together and make some scam version of the same thing, try to get momentum to become the biggest one. And just like people call it like vamp like vampire attack a memecoin on long they actually so any token that's launched that ticker is locked then for 24 hours after that so no one else can launch the same token for 24 hours. Uh and now I believe they've also implemented stuff where like tokens that have been out for a while and have so like AI for example or some of the other large coins like I don't believe you can ever launch that ticker again. Um it's just like permanently locked now. And so I think that there's certain things like that

that are actually quite valuable in the world of memecoins where it's just like I think one of the challenges but also fun parts is it's this every day there's 10,000 more coins and who it could be anything. Uh one of the challenges is you get diluted in there's 10 different AI coins and they're all fighting for the same thing. >> Whereas if everyone kind of comes together and says okay we like the coins on long we're going to buy those and support those and then we you literally can't launch another AI. That's actually a pretty unique uh setup for memes. >> Yeah. >> Isn't that kind of the whole game of launchpads is correctly producing strong shelling points in your specific meme coins and like corelling the dispersion towards your coins. I feel like that is that's how launchpads kind of compete,

right? >> Yeah, for sure. They've done a good job at it. I mean, you can even like pair with AI, which has been, you know, a big thing for them. Um but yeah, I think coin market cap. >> Yeah. Yeah. Then you have Exactly. So then yeah, whoever buy whoever buys the coin pair with AI, AI goes up and then underneath that, you know, there's Nvidia and all that. So it just kind of everything plays together. But yeah, I mean I think they've done a good job with the limiting of tickers and just a focus on quality. I mean, I have a theory that basically every every major stock is going to have one winning meme stock and that community will kind of be the meme stock for that stock. And I have a even bigger part of that theory where I think eventually these companies

will embrace these um these meme stocks. We're already kind of seeing it with him and and Boner a bit, but um with like the CEO following Boner and you know, I've been on him's house and the investor community seems very interested in it. But if you think about it, there's thousands of people holding these coins that are all pretty much interested in being just long and the stock doing well and going up because if stock goes up, you know that that it's paired with the coin, the coin goes up too. Um, so I think Long did a good job at like limiting the tickers and limiting just kind of one per because I think that's what's going to happen in this meta to begin with. Well, and I think kind of like taking it a step further and one of the things that has kind of really spurred on this like

stock paired memecoin thing because you know if you just like if you sit down and just think for a second you're like it's no different than being paired against Ether, Bitcoin or Salana really. >> Yeah. >> It's just behavior is exactly the same. >> Yeah. Just the underlying asset maybe you're more bullish on it. And so like for those who are not familiar, when you're trading coins that are on an AMM, if the underlying asset goes up, your coin automatically goes up because they're they're paired together. Um, and so you don't want to be paired against something that you think is going to go down in price because that makes it harder for your coin to go up in price.

Um, but I think the other kind of thing here like Eric has kind of touched on is there's sort of this unknown of what it could be long term and it's this we're getting regulatory clarity on these things all the time and there's just like you know one of the memes that's paired with AI is called boards sit and that the meme is that they're going to accumulate enough uh Nvidia in the liquidity pool that AI token will get a board seat at Nvidia which you They need to get like some ridiculous valuation.

>> Nvidia is the hardest mode of all the assets to do. That's the hardest one to do. >> But like even could is that even possible? Who knows? But it's this kind of new unknown thing that's fun and exciting of like what if what if this happens then? Like we don't really know what's going to happen. And that is able to get people much more interested than just like okay another coin paired with Salana. That's we know we know what this means. we know kind of all of the rules of this. There's these these unknown rules that no one knows and like how things could play out that gives people higher targets and more excitement and more belief that this could be some new thing which I think is one of the big factors here.

>> Yeah. The funniest thing about that point is I I I think Robin Hood themselves doesn't even know sometimes how this is going to play out. I mean >> I don't think anyone knows. >> Yeah, exactly. We even see Vlad kind of tweeting about, wait, can we do in kind? Is this is it truly back to one to one? Like there's just it's there's a lot of unknowns. Like one of the crazier things we see is like if one of these takes off and there's not a lot of shares when it's an onchain, all the shares get swallowed up by the pool and the price of the stock gets disconnected onchain versus off and then market makers have to step in. Um so yeah, it's a it's a wild game, but um yeah, I don't I really don't I mean I have a theory where this

is going, but there's so many unknowns when it comes to to this right now. >> I uh had Johan from Robin Hood on the show yesterday. I recorded him and I asked some of these uh questions. Eric. Uh, and so that episode will actually have already been out by the time this one comes out. And so if any listeners want to learn about LP pools and off-market trading price dislocations, I asked Johan about that. >> Um, >> so going back to the whole um, memecoin on the, you know, governance over public equities thing, like I'm I'm of two minds about this. Um, I wrote the HIMS CEO an email to their to their press and and like also his email. I just found his email and like this this is what I

do. I asked this is how I I find emails. So, this is not anything like unique or specific, but just I wrote an email say, "Hey, come on bank list. I want to get your take about um like what's going on with your tokenized stock." I really made it more about the tokenized stock happening on Robin Hood because that's like the bigger subject because this was happening at the same time the AMC CEO was blasting Vlad and so I just wanted to get a public market CEO's opinion about like what their what it's like to have their sock tokenized on chain and what they think about that. Also there was a line item was like oh yeah what and what do you think about like the memecoin? But I was doing a little bit of math of like, okay, is this even worth this man's time to even to come on

this crypto podcast that he's probably never heard of before and like talk about his tokenized stock on Robin Hood chain. And I went and I looked at how much of him's tokenized stock there was on Robin Hood chain. And then I looked at the market cap of HIMS and those two numbers are wildly different. It's like $3.5 million of tokenized stock on a $6.5 billion company. And so I'm like, "No way is this man ever replying to this email. Like this is not worth his time." Uh, and of course he did not respond. I've was ghosted. There's there's nothing is happening on that front. Worth a shot. But like I like it's it seems wishful thinking to think that these public market CEOs are ever

going to care about these memecoin communities because not only is there only $3.5 million of tokenized hymn stock on Robin Hood chain, the boner memecoin LP LP pool only has like half of that and so it's even smaller. So that's that's on one side of the spectrum. On the other side of the spectrum, Andy talked about how like uh Shibbaenu or whatever whatever memecoin went to $40 billion in 2021. And so like that's the high water mark and I think that's what gets people's imagination going, but nonetheless, we are so far away from that like possible future.

Eric, how do you think about this? >> Yeah, a couple things. I think I'll start with for now the impact might not be there as far as like a ton of shares tokenized on chain. Obviously, these are small like ratios of market cap versus the actual stock market cap, but I think what a CEO of a smaller company could realize is like the fandom that's being created and the marketing that's being created. So, um I had went on one of these like him and Bessard podcast or whatever. And I haven't looked in a while, but I believe the video that he posted on um Twitter got like 250,000 views and like historically his other videos got like 40 to 50,000. Um, so I mean that's coming from the boner community in that case, right? And I'm

sure if Nvidia there was an Nvidia investor call or something that you know AI was involved with. So I think and like in my ex feed I'm seeing a lot of like him stuff and like things about their stock and like charts and like so I think they could realize that all of a sudden you've gained 20,000 holders and these people are all of a sudden interested in your company. Um, I don't think that they probably will care too much about the financial impact until one of these hits at least a couple billion probably. Now, I will say like Boner when it first started pumping one of the days it did 10% of the volume that the actual HIM stock did on the traditional stock exchange. So, the volume can get up there.

>> The the volume of Boner, not the volume of the HIM stock, but >> the trading volume Yeah. the trading volume on Robin Hood. Yeah. Was like 10%. So like you you start to see and I think like at one point the market cap is like 1% of or something like that as well. So like all of a sudden if one of these 20 30xs, you know, over the next month or two, who knows? I'm not saying they're going to, but um things could get interesting. I think this kind of goes to Andy's point earlier, like we don't know what's going to happen. So take it take an example like what if one of these does flip the market cap of the actual stock? Like what what breaks?

What happens? Like do we even have the stocks to the stocks to put on chain? I don't know should this will get weird. >> Yeah, I think that's like a big part of it is there's just so much unknown that you can't price and so it's just this like total mystery box of outcomes. Uh which is typically in the history of like bull markets of kind of anything that's like kind of what you need is this like unknown thing that you can't price because you don't know what it is totally yet. um for people to get really excited about and it kind of feels like that's what we've found here even if it's just a meme coin.

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say if you wanted to like paint a pretty strong picture before I say this, I'll say that Eric is very very exposed to Boner. I'm also exposed to Boner. I don't think Andy has some. Um >> is that right, Andy? Okay. Um, so if you weren't if you wanted to construct like the perfect structural market structure setup, you would pick a a equity that has a decent but not large market cap in the single digit billions perhaps that also had a very large outstanding short supply on his float, which Hims also has. And so HIMS is a $6.5 billion market cap and 30% of the float is shorted. I don't I don't know why it's

shorted so well, but like maybe because think people think like margins are going to compress and so it's like we are GME adjacent from 2021 now we're in 2026 and so like that I think it's like that structural setup of just like oh if this beammecoin does things that have happened in the past to other meme coins like it 30x's and then the virality takes over the short squeeze can like the tail can wag the dog into the short squeeze on the public market and I think that's like your structural setup that produces the most imagination I think in in the memecoin people.

>> Yeah, I would agree with that. I mean I think each meme stock community is going to go about it differently. I think like some are going to go community focused and some are going to go, hey, there's a lot of short flow and this company has a low market cap. Can we run it up and see what gets weird? I mean, I think AMC's market cap is only like$2 and half billion dollars or something like that. And there was one of one of the meme stocks um it for AMC ran up to like I think 50 or 60 million or something like that. I mean if all of a sudden that runs like >> 125 million. >> Yeah, you're right. It did. Yeah. That for that crazy night. So I mean you're talking about all of a sudden things I mean if it runs to a billion it's half

of the market cap of AMC like what what starts happening right? And yeah I mean you're talking memes have run to you know 20 30 40 billion. Um then it's going to start having an impact at that point. >> Yeah. And then I think the other kind of weird thing that could happen is we're starting to see some significantly smaller publicly traded companies go on chain as well. Uh I don't own any of this, but it there was one called like Vita that uh like the I think it was Vita or something like that where like they're literally trying they were trying to flip the market cap of the stock and like the CEO was like in he was like this is sick. let's let's try.

Uh and like so like the coin was named like Vita CTO which stands for community takeover and the joke was like we're taking over Vita by just like we're going to flip the stock and just take over the company. >> Um and I think like that's pro for one of these, you know, I think odds are there will at some point be a $30 million publicly traded company that ends up onchain that is flipped by a memecoin. Like I I think that's kind of an inevitability. Um and it's just a matter of like which one is it and what happens when that happens. >> Yeah, it'd be interesting in that case.

Will they say like let's try to just tokenize all our stock on chain, you know, like slowly just try to become the first fully token. Now, it's impossible to do like 100% of course, but someone could just say, hey, let's try to just be the first fully Robin Hood >> stock. Yeah. you know, >> and I think the cool thing with that is you end up actually getting, you know, a lot of liquidity for your tokenized stocks through this. Like a AI especially has like, let me pull up the exact numbers right now cuz I have it in front of me, but it has >> $14 million of liquidity on chain >> which is a lot for for a memecoin. It's especially a lot, you know, but for a company's stock tok to tokenized stock

to bootstrap liquidity, >> there's like almost no better way to bootstrap initial onchain liquidity than memecoins cuz otherwise like you need some sort of retail flow to bid the stock onchain and the best way to do that is with memecoins. And so you end up with this uh really beneficial for you long term. If you think that having good liquidity on your stock onchain matters, then you probably want some meme coins that are launching against it to drive volume so that market makers come and LPS come to make money on that volume.

>> Yeah, it's a really good point. So if a if a stock memecoin gets launched and that LP pool grows and we have the memecoins on one side and the stock on the other and both go up, the memecoin goes up in market value and all of a sudden there's more LP the LP pool is larger, you can bootstrap liquidity without ever touching USDC or any other like kind of denominated asset like you that liquidity works for like dollar buyers. So what what's happening there is so in the case of uh let's say AI and Nvidia uh because it's the largest um at least when it first started if you wanted to buy AI let's say odds are you probably had either Ethereum or USDG which is the like

stable coin on Robin Hood chain so let's say for the sake of argument you have Ethereum on Robin Hood chain you have to first through unis swap buy Nvidia tokenized stock and then buy from that sell the tokenized stock to buy AI. And so what that's doing, it's not it's encouraging people to provide liquidity for the Ethereum Nvidia pair because any volume driving through AI has to be driven again early on. Now there's way more liquidity pools and stuff has to be driven through the Ethereum Nvidia pair.

And so if you're LPing there, you're just going to like make a ton of money >> and that then incentivizes LPS. And so then you can just pro provide liquidity for Ethereum and Nvidia have no risk to AI at all and you're just making money from retail buying through FOMO or Pump Fun app or all these different things because you're eating all the fees on Uniswap. >> That's wild. >> Yeah, >> that's wild. Yeah, this is kind of like reminded me of like every not every but many of the good innovations that came out of crypto started with memecoins bootstrapping something >> and like like why do we want like tokenized stocks on Robin Hood chain or like anywhere that you can't do already

in your normal brokerage your normal Charles Schwab or Interactive Brokers or whatever. It's like, well, because of this, like you can do weird shenanigans like this that actually do create like positive market structure in the traditional asset in like the good normal ways, but just like it's the tale of meme coins that waged the dog and you can't do that anywhere else. >> Yeah. And so like now Robin Hood tokenized stocks on the weekends are extremely liquid and that is only because of memecoins. Like obviously over time I'm sure they would have spent money and resources paying to get liquidity on these things and now they don't have to because Memecoins did it for them.

>> That's wild. That's wild. >> Yeah. And so that's where I think there's benefits that are much larger than like a nor a traditional pair on Pump Fun or something. But now Pump Fun is integrated this too. >> It's like the structural stuff like this that actually makes me like somewhat optimistic about this meta. I want to go into let's ask I want to ask some FOMO questions just like strategy for using FOMO because I've been using FOMO more and more and more like most people who are in the trenches in this industry. Uh and so I'll just kind of like run through some of these things. How do you find coins? Because like the whole idea of FOMO is that you can see what your friends are buying. So that's my dominant like coin discovery channel is J like I see a notification popping up

that Eric is buying this one cat coin. and I see a notification that Andy's buying this one thing. I open it up. In the that moment, I decide whether I like it or not, and that's kind of it. So, like, is your coin discovery dominantly inside of FOMO or if it's not dominantly inside of FOMO, what is your coin discovery process? Andy, I'll start with you. >> Yeah, I would say for me it's a a bit different. I definitely use FOMO a lot. um primarily as like just general social graph tracking, seeing what people are buying and selling >> for the information side.

>> Yeah. Uh I am just in like a lot of DGEN chats of creators >> and yeah, Telegram chats and have like some bot tooling and stuff for new launches and things like that. Uh so a lot of my information comes from Telegram chats primarily. Um, but that's not what the average person's lived experience is going to be. Um, >> but I but I do think it is valuable to like have some friends in a chat if you're trying to trade this stuff in any bit seriously and just even to bounce ideas off of or have someone say, "Hey, I I found this. I think it's cool."

>> Uh, it can give you a little bit more signal than what you see on FOMO. Uh, but there are certainly times where I'll see someone buy something on FOMO and I'll be like, "Oh, that's cool. I'll buy it." >> Okay. So, like using FOMO exclusively is probably not positive EV who need more signal than just FOMO. >> I think it depends how you trade as well. If you're, you know, I like to sling around in the mud. Uh, I like to roll around in the mud, so to speak. I like to buy coins that are super low market cap, very high risk. Most likely I'm going to lose all my money, but when I hit it well, you hit it hit it very well. Um, I don't think that trading those types of coins on FOMO and expecting to like win is like the best

thing because you have not only information asymmetry but also timing asymmetry. Like if you see some guy with a bunch of followers buy this $100,000 market cap coin, you're probably late at that point. Um whereas if you're using it to discover and trade things that are somewhat established in the 510 20 million memecoin range, which for most people that if you're trying to trade meme coins, that's what you should be doing. Uh like it's it's what I should be doing. Buy enjoy what I do. Um then I think it's it's a totally different ballgame because it's not this like rush to buy. I have to get it right now. You know, if you buy it, if you don't, it'll probably go back down a bit and you can buy it later. like you're uh and so I think that for that sort of trading using exclusively FOMO for

discoverability is like totally fine >> and just like figuring out what are people buying, what's interesting, what has a lot of volume of people buying it where there's a lot of new people buying and holding. I think FOMO is really really good for that kind of stuff. >> Eric, what's your discovery process on FOMO? So >> I wish I was uh yeah, my my strategy actually changed. I was a little late on the meme and FOMO game in general. Uh my strategy has changed since I joined. Like when I joined, I was mostly trying to catch big runners like kind of what what Andy's talking about a little bit.

Um I would go like on the graduated tab even, which is a dangerous place to be. Uh and and throw some money at something. I thought like I I'm setting up some bot tooling slowly, but generally my my play is just click it, paste the address in Twitter, see what people are saying quickly about it, run a couple safety checks on it, see who the holders are, um, and just throw a little money at it. But I feel like now with the capital being spread out so much, I've changed a lot in the last couple weeks to making larger conviction plays and higher cap coins. So, I think like 90% of my capital probably over the last few weeks has gone into coins that are already over even like $10 million market caps. Um, I kicked myself a little bit. Like I I saw AI at like I

think like a $25 million cap. I'm like, "Ah, it's too big already." And here we are at 350 today. I I finally bit the bullet and bought around like 150 or something. But um I I think >> especially with FOMO with like the most held tab now, people are probably default going to that when they join the app. um mostly and they kind of see those most held coins and I think it's just easier to get um larger plays of course on higher cap coins. Um I'll still take some punts here and there, but at this point I'm just looking for like new narratives because like the narratives are so recycled, right? Um like the new thing kind of is like some devs have come back from the dead from the past like cycles and like launched mysterious coins that people don't know what's happening. Like we saw a couple

runners in the last week for that. Um, but yeah, I'm trying not to like spread my capital too thin because I like a lot of stuff like 98% of the stuff seems to be bleeding out um over the first couple days, right? Um, it's it's hard to catch for one that kind of sticks. But I do agree like I think with AI being so easy as in artificial intelligence like Claude and not the not the token, I do think it's smart for everybody to just put in a prompt that says, "Hey, quickly set me up like a a meme dashboard just to plug in an address and create some flags for me and and track certain, you know, movements on chain or certain traders because like Andy said, if you're if you're buying if you get that FOMO alert and it's someone with a large

following, you're too late. I mean the co the like on mine the copy traders on my FOMO now I buy something it's absolutely insane like hundreds of people buy after me just bots um which is actually pretty >> they sell like 10 minutes later. >> Yeah, it's really annoying because they the charts all messed up then and stuff. It's ridiculous. But uh >> yeah, so I mean that's kind of I I really don't I'm actually people think I'm in like a ton of cabal chats. I'm in like one meme coin trading chat and it's just like >> it's a very casual chat. >> Yeah, exactly. like I'm really not grinding too hard on that side of things. Um, you know, I think usually what my strategy is like take a risk and actually put some size in and then if things take off, you know, you do you do

pretty well with it. >> Both you guys have talked about just getting bought alerts. What flags are you looking for? Like what are you trying to be alerted about? Say you like see a coin. What what are the top three bits of information that you want first and foremost? >> It's a good question. I think like some either like some se semblance of originality or like something that is that is unique about this if it's been done a ton of times it is like hard to get excited about it even if it's like oh this one's better because of some random reason you know so and so is launched it or whatever like normally that doesn't really move the needle for me um and then I would say like uh making sure that the holder distribution

is at least Okay. It's like now with tooling it's relatively easy to figure out if you look like you know does someone own 85% of this coin and like that just never works out. It's never a good strategy. >> A shallow genie coefficient is what you're looking for. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. Good spread. >> I would say those are really like >> Yeah. Those are really the big things I would say. Um, and then like I I I like to buy things where I can at least realistically give myself a world where this goes like 100x from where it is currently. That's kind of how I try to think about this stuff is it's like sure I could buy this coin.

Maybe it'll go up 5x because so and so tweets about it or whatever like dumb thing people are hoping for. But like the riskreward of that is not that good versus like for example right now I'll say and again not financial advice you probably shouldn't buy this coin. There's a coin that is called Eloncoin that sends him the fees through X money which is a new >> oh the X ex X fin like X has a new like financial services stuff someone built on top of Pump Fund >> to automatically convert it and send it to someone's X money account. And to me, that coin is like likely it's worth nothing and it goes to zero and he never talks about it. But there is some small range of outcomes where Elon tweets, someone sent me $500,000 on X money,

isn't that sick? And this coin goes up 500x in one day >> because I want to own some of that because there's a chance. Right. >> And so it's like I I prefer coins that have what you know that this is an extreme example, but I can tell myself the story that it's going to go up a lot and then it's it feels like the riskreward is better versus like, oh, this is the 17th dog coin about Nvidia. Maybe this one could be good. >> Yeah, it all comes down to that attention economy, right? I I definitely agree with that. And I actually think that's why that people aren't even really talking about this yet, but meme stocks in general, you have the potential of so people are only thinking about the the stock the company coming to the meme. I think it could go the

other way around, meaning people in the investor community for these stocks could become interested in the meme and there's a lot of people and a lot of liquidity and a lot of money in stock trading, right? And if all of a sudden they start to like the meme and kind of see behind it, they might start buying, right? Like it's hard for crypto to tap outside liquidity and outside buyers. And previously with meme coins, it was like crypto only. But now with these meme stocks, you could see traditional stock traders saying, "Oh, this one this is kind of a cool concept. I've never done meme coins before. I'm I'm going to buy it because it supports the stock I like." Um, so I think we could we could see that happen. But going back to the question on the bot. Yeah. And Andy mentioned bundles. I think people need

to be careful with that. So you might see like a coin launch and the top holder only has like 1%. But what happened on launch is like they sent out 1% to like 50 different people, right? So in theory, >> right, >> 50% of the supply is controlled by one entity. Um maybe they're all bunnies or whatever. But um yeah, so I think looking for that. Go ahead. >> What's a healthy way for a token to get distributed like because there's always this fundamental problem of like a tokens start concentrated, they diffuse over time. So how do you know like healthy distribution versus like concentrated toxic distribution? I mean, I think the most pure would be a dev just launches and takes no supply and, you know, it's just out there and it takes off and the original buyer >> you put the entire supply into the LP

pool and people buy from the LP pool. >> Yeah, essentially. I mean, it's Yeah, these launch vets kind of offer that option, right? Like the dev can take a small percent. Of course, like they could launch and buy right away. Like I'm fine with a dev launching taking zero supply and like buying a little bit early on or something like that or even just taking a small cut. Um, it gets interesting though cuz like yeah, if you want to support a say you like really like a coin early and it's like under a million dollars and you're buying up a bunch trying to support the floor. Like you could end up with like 5% of the supply accidentally and like that turns people off on FOMO. They'll see you have got a bunch. But like really you were kind of you're the reason that coin you

know was doing well >> was elevated in the first place. >> Yeah. Exactly. So like I've seen people then if it gets too high they're like oh I'll burn some of the supply or whatever just to you know I mean people just send it off and act like they don't have it however it goes but yeah I look for certain launchpads too like I there's you know certain launchpads in my opinion do better like and so that's one of the kind of rules I put in and then like serial launchers like if someone was launched like 50 coins from the same address don't touch that. So that's some of the things like my my touring looks for. I want to ask about how you guys make the decision to hit the sell button on your losers. Uh, and so most like when I'm buying anything below a 10

market cap coin or really anything I'm buying on FOMO, I kind of think that like the money that I'm buying this token with is gone. It's not coming back. There's no way unless it does what Andy was kind of talking about of like a one in 5,000 chance of this doing well. Uh, and so like I'm putting money into the slot machine and and it's disappearing. I'm not getting it back. It's not an investment. it's not a savings account. It's going away. And that's mostly what happens for most of the coins statistically speaking. And so now I have a ton of like L's on my FOMO portfolio that still have is like $50. I put in 500, now it's 50. You know, I put in 250, now it's a hundred. And they're just dust in my FOMO account. And I

could sell just like every single one and like recoup, you know, pennies on the dollar of my, you know, quote unquote investments. But then I'm also of the mind of just like, well, you know what? If it's a runner later, maybe I should just keep my dust. Do you like how do you guys manage like your your L's? Like, do you sell your L's? Do you keep your L's? What do you do with those? >> It changes. It kind of depends obviously. Like there's some times, like I said, when you're really rolling in the mud where you buy something and then like 5 minutes later you're like, "Oh, this was a huge mistake. I should not have bought this. I'm going to sell it right now." Um I I've tried to be better about just like cutting stuff if I'm like, you know, I had an idea of what this could

do and the more I think about it now that I hold it, I'm like, do I really think that's going to happen? No, I'm just going to sell it. Um, I think it can be hard when you have a lot of followers on something like FOMO where it's like I don't want to dump on the people who bought because I bought, which is like a tough mental thing to get over and something that I'm still trying to figure out. I've like I've come around to the idea that I just don't really care. Everyone's a grown-up and, you know, they can make their own decisions. Um, but like I sold over 1% of AI at like a $300,000 market cap. Uh, >> and that's just the battle scars that that come along with um with trading and in this industry. Uh, and so it's like

obviously there's times where you wish you didn't. Um, I think I like I had sort of overcorrected at that point in time to just like really aggressively cutting stuff that wasn't going um, and like not thinking enough about like, okay, why did I buy this in the first place? Um, but yeah, I think it really depends. Like in my opinion, you should sell all that stuff. And or like like the way that I try to think about it is like anytime you're not selling a coin, you're basically making the decision to buy it. And so it's like think about it and say if I if I had $100 right now, would I buy this coin with $100? And if the answer is no, then you should sell it. And that's that's how I try to think about it now.

>> Yeah, it's I've got some horror stories, too. I actually think one of FOMO's most viral potential features is where you can share your fumbles. Um, yeah, early on I was cutting a lot of dust. Like if I went to buy something, I would cut some losses and, you know, do that. I I think I'm kind of done with that, especially with my ship to like some higher conviction plays. Um, I generally try not to sell. I mean, I sold there was a classic, what was it? Um, Fork or whatever. I sold that. Um, I think it was like at a $100,000 market cap. I just took like a couple thousand dollars of dust out of that to buy something else and literally the next day it pumped at $32 million. I fumbled like $250 grand just by selling what I thought was dust. So I mean I've got a

few of those kind of like Andy was dust is another man's moonshot. Right. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. So I've tried to like stop cutting. I mean if I get down if I'm down like 98% in a coin and it literally is down like a couple bucks and you know there's no one talking about it and it's the chart is just total death, I'll cut it. Um, yeah, I fumbled some. Like I fumbled Orbio the other day. I sold at like a four million cap and ran up to like 48. Like that, you know, it just happens. It's part of the game. Uh, you know, the worst is usually your fumbles, you buy something that went to zero. So, it's double whammy, but uh yeah, I I generally try.

>> Well, not only did you not make $400,000, exactly. So, um yeah, I mean, I get it. I get cutting dust for sure and like losers, but um I think if you kind of shifted that like if you're buying stuff you you really like and like think can do well, you're probably less likely to cut it even if it's down 80%. Because it has a chance to bounce back. >> What other FOMO tricks you guys like? I've run out of my FOMO questions, but is there anything I I don't know to ask that I ought to? >> Yeah, I mean people one thing that's interesting is like figuring out how the um how like the fee tape works. So um it took me a while just a tip I'll give people. I think like the best way to take the get the creator rewards is to

post thesis early on coins. Um it see like I don't know what the algorithm actually is but >> I've seem to have better days when I've posted I bought I've posted a thesis early and the coin is like 10xed. I think they're kind of paying out you know based on how early you are on thesis. So I know some people don't even post it. Like if you want to make some creator rewards it's a good way to to make some money. And um if you post one and it like a 100 X's and a lot of people saw that and bought because of it um they they pay out a lot. So um that's kind of one tip I it took me a couple days, couple weeks to figure out um but something I've kind of discovered recently.

>> No, definitely the creator rewards are pretty cool. Um, and I I would say like I think it's good to try to just like find people who you think are better traders than you or are smarter than you and like not only just like see what coins they own, but just kind of watch how they operate, when are they selling things, what are they doing. I I do think there's a lot that you can just learn um about trading, especially if you're new. And honestly, like I think probably it'd be a great thing to have AI help with for someone is like open it up on desktop with browser use from whatever AI you like and say, "I really want you to, you know, review and analyze the trades of

this trader and tell me what they're doing differently than me, what they're doing better than me." Uh, I think there's a a gold mine of information there that people are not really taking advantage of, myself included. Um, because there are many better traders than me on FOMO. I'm sure about that. So, I think there's a lot of educational stuff that you could figure out because there's so much public information. >> Even though the the memecoin economy always has felt so opaque, there is nonetheless like a ton of data there and we do have AI and so there is some sort of frontier to push there. It's like what what does internet, you know, internet capital markets look like when all of that data is truly made accessible by intelligence that's way better than us and like what can we do

with that? Well, and there's also traders who are on FOMO who aren't really trading memes, you know, like one of the larger P&L accounts is this account named Change. I don't know who he is, but like he mostly just trades, you know, mid-market cap normal tokens that are say in the 100 to $300 million market cap that real tokens, not meme coins, real project tokens that like, you know, so he like made a ton of money on like VVV or uh different tokens like that. Um, and like he just will find a project that he likes and thinks is undervalued and like almost full port his entire FOMO account and hold it for like two or three months and then sell it all. And he's made a lot of money and I think, you know, looking at accounts

like him and seeing what he does and how he does it, you could probably learn a lot too, even outside of the memecoin world. >> Cool, guys. Well, hopefully we at the beginning of a very long cycle. Eric, your uh $2,500 ETH uh price target from five years ago still hangs over the the head of the market. >> All time jinx, man. All time jinx. I don't even really have much anymore, but I'll say 20k just so we can get rid of that jinx. >> 20 20k ETH price target when uh what quarter 2027 do you think that that happens?

>> Uh let's go with Q3. >> Q3 2027 is when you should sell it all. Uh Eric Andy, thanks for coming on the show today. Appreciate you guys. >> Thanks, David. >> Thanks for having me. >> Bank meme coins are the most risky thing that you could ever do in the crypto industry. They are plenty risky enough. You can lose what you put in, but nonetheless, this frontier is not for everyone, but we are glad you are with us on the bankless journey. Thanks a lot.